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Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.23 17:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Snot Shot on 23/07/2009 17:48:17
So I donĘt know if this thread exists or not but I thought I would throw this out there since the new patch is coming up and it might be a quick fix of sorts. During the Delve where the NC provided most of the support to win the war it was noted that their ability to defend home space and fight in the south was mostly due to Jump Clones. Well if thatĘs the case that you can now effectively fight in two locations easily thus allowing for massive Power Blocs to form I have an idea for CCP and its simple:
Extend the Jump Clone timer from 24-hours to 72-hours.
This would force Alliances to think twice about jumping out other regions to be the deciding factor in a war effort among other impacts. POS timers fall below the 72-hour window and the strategic value of the JC to support the Power Block would be negated.
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Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution
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Posted - 2009.07.23 19:40:00 -
[2]
while you are at it, and im very serious about this - CCP should implement a recloning sickness similar to the side effects you get from using drugs.
This side effects should come into effect if pilotes jumpclone to much and more importantly if pilotes continiously loose there POD. This dayes with the price of clones and JC's so you can jump out of your expensive implants when ever you need to do something that might cause you to lose your clone the real loss you take when getting podded is that you get back to base faster and can man a new ship faster and go straight back into baddle.
In most cases its prefered to lose the clone aswell when loosing the ship so you can return to the battlefield quicker - this is mostly important in big alliance wars where isk this dayes are the only issue, who can afford to take the biggest losses.
Recloning sickness should unlike side effects from drugs last significantly longer so the have a real impact on the pilotes ability to perform on the battlefield. |
Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.07.23 19:45:00 -
[3]
I tend to agree that Jump clones need a bit of nerfing.... But I think 72 hours is a bit excessive. I wouldn't object to some timer increase, but I think that may be a bit much. It would definitely kill the power blocks, but it would also make life very inconvenient for everyone else as well.
Personally I'd rather the timer kept as is, and a temporary "sickness" added. Or change the timer to 36 or even 48 hours, and don't add a sickness.
I do think Snot is going in the right direction with his suggestion, but I don't think it should go this far |
Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.23 19:47:00 -
[4]
Ugh, how obnoxious would it be to have a 72-hour timer? NO THANKS. This is known as "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". |
Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.07.23 19:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Ugh, how obnoxious would it be to have a 72-hour timer? NO THANKS. This is known as "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".
Thats what I thought... While something may have to be done to break large power blocs, I'd rather KEEP them then have to wait 3 days between each clone jump. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.07.23 20:04:00 -
[6]
No need to extend the timer. Make it so that you can only have a clone in space in which you hold sovereignty or in Empire (0.1-1.0) Prevents the offensive use of JC's like in the example you provided without harming the use of clones as it is normally performed.
Renters would be negatively affected, at least until they can get their own station up and running. |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.07.23 21:01:00 -
[7]
JCs arent biggest problem. biggest problem is how easy it is to move around with large groups of ships. Jump drives, jump bridges, jump portals - everything makes moving masses just way too easy and way too safe. If you were in 0.0 3+ years ago you could remember "convoys" - multiple freighters plus escort ships. Nowadays noone does this because you can either portal/bridge normal freighters or use jump freighters. 0.0 logistics became almost as safe as empire ones (and in some cases even safer) and surely way faster. Doing 10 jumps in empire = 10 jumps. Doing 10 jumps in 0.0? One bridge and you are done. |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.07.23 21:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire JCs arent biggest problem. biggest problem is how easy it is to move around with large groups of ships. Jump drives, jump bridges, jump portals - everything makes moving masses just way too easy and way too safe. If you were in 0.0 3+ years ago you could remember "convoys" - multiple freighters plus escort ships. Nowadays noone does this because you can either portal/bridge normal freighters or use jump freighters. 0.0 logistics became almost as safe as empire ones (and in some cases even safer) and surely way faster. Doing 10 jumps in empire = 10 jumps. Doing 10 jumps in 0.0? One bridge and you are done.
This. I really miss the old days of deep 0.0 freighter runs and the scouting and escort fleets that accompanied them.
Jump clones, jump bridges, and jump drives all need a good solid nerfing. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.23 21:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida No need to extend the timer. Make it so that you can only have a clone in space in which you hold sovereignty or in Empire (0.1-1.0) Prevents the offensive use of JC's like in the example you provided without harming the use of clones as it is normally performed.
Renters would be negatively affected, at least until they can get their own station up and running.
"Perfect" no JC in 0.0 NPC controlled space.
Good gift for Goonswarm in Delve (and other trying to control 0.0 NPC space).
No, thanks. |
PrimaryIsYou
BACKUPLEGION
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Posted - 2009.07.30 05:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida No need to extend the timer. Make it so that you can only have a clone in space in which you hold sovereignty or in Empire (0.1-1.0) Prevents the offensive use of JC's like in the example you provided without harming the use of clones as it is normally performed.
Renters would be negatively affected, at least until they can get their own station up and running.
"Perfect" no JC in 0.0 NPC controlled space.
Good gift for Goonswarm in Delve (and other trying to control 0.0 NPC space).
No, thanks.
You probably haven't picked up on this while hugging empire, but Delve has player sov too.
hth
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Rhohan
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:24:00 -
[11]
I agree, strategic movement of forces is currently too easy. It allows the larger forces to defend multiple areas of the map at great distances far too easily.
No simple answers though. The 3-day timer might be a good start.
Another option might be to allow everyone only 2 jump clones on char creation, and have a 5-day timer with the Infomorph Psychology skill reducing it to 3-days at Level V.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:36:00 -
[12]
Jumpclones, jumpgates, everything instajump this or that needs a serious nerfing to make EVE large again.
That and removing all but the basic intel for 0.0 from the map as well as making all moon material caches finite.
Reeling the pre-sold farm back in EVE will bloom for sure with neighbours turning on eachother since it's no longer convenient to travel across the galaxy to pick a fight. There would be actual frontlines.
Quite possibly smaller upstart outfits would be able to carve out a system or two and discover a high end cache of moon materials to capitalize on before the eye seek them out and the hammer comes down.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:50:00 -
[13]
Brain:active
they can fight anywhere and everywhere they want within 24h and 2 positions is realy nothing
reduce jump clone timer without any drawbacks is good Save a clone /burn a idiot!
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Snot Shot
Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.31 14:59:00 -
[14]
So does CCP ever let you know that they have read your post and what they think?
Dr. Shot
Just sayin..... |
Chi'kote
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Posted - 2009.07.31 15:06:00 -
[15]
Please don't forget that there is more in this game than the mega-alliance, mega-blob warfare in 0.0. It is not the only use for JCs. My corp, and I'm sure MANY others, have operations throughout eve. We have low-sec base for production, 0.0 base for ratting and mining, and a high-sec base for mission running. The only way to effectively use all 3, other than running 30-50 jumps whenever you want to switch from mission to mining to ratting, etc, is to have JCs available. I don't want to be punished 72 hrs because I want to jump to our mission hub for a day and then back to our production hub the next day.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.07.31 15:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chi'kote Please don't forget that there is more in this game than the mega-alliance, mega-blob warfare in 0.0. It is not the only use for JCs. My corp, and I'm sure MANY others, have operations throughout eve. We have low-sec base for production, 0.0 base for ratting and mining, and a high-sec base for mission running. The only way to effectively use all 3, other than running 30-50 jumps whenever you want to switch from mission to mining to ratting, etc, is to have JCs available. I don't want to be punished 72 hrs because I want to jump to our mission hub for a day and then back to our production hub the next day.
Keep them closer together. Our base of operations is all close to each other, not 30-50 jumps between.
But increasing the time on jumpclones is only solving this specific problem. And could create mutliple other problems. Like lower number of people wanting to pvp in global cause now they have to sit 72 hours in their pvp clone that they can afford to loose. Or what about those people that uses their clones for specific specialisations? Like a speedboosted clone for interceptors, and an armor tanked clone for flying their domi or other ship into pvp or pve? They will also have to wait 72 hours before switching.
What they should add though is a max distance to JC, just like a jump drive, you can't jump from one side of the universe to the other in only 1 jump. You will need a build out cyno network to do so. And last time I checked a cynoship can be destroyed pretty easy most of the time. But what it makes that safe for the capitals is they can be cynoed in at docking range of stations or close to posshields. Disable the ability to light a cyno close to a station or pos and it gets a lot vulnerable to cyno full fleets over as they can't dock up to recharge cap or get directly to safety.
The jumpclone is only a small problem in the bigger picture. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.07.31 16:46:00 -
[17]
If you're going to put a 72 hour timer on JC's then please limit it to nullsec, i.e. in Empire it's fairly easy to get a 100% refine with 50% base refine stations that are pretty common, but in nullsec or lowsec, small operations are forced to use a 35% base refine which makes it very hard to get a 100% refine. In other words, grant a 24 hour timer for clone jumps to high sec, but then keep it at 72 hours for nullsec jumps because nullsec facilities will be of poorer quality.
If you can't deal with a 72 hour timer for nullsec then yes, you need to have your operations closer together.
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.08.01 02:16:00 -
[18]
Originally by: wickedpheonix If you're going to put a 72 hour timer on JC's then please limit it to nullsec, i.e. in Empire it's fairly easy to get a 100% refine with 50% base refine stations that are pretty common, but in nullsec or lowsec, small operations are forced to use a 35% base refine which makes it very hard to get a 100% refine. In other words, grant a 24 hour timer for clone jumps to high sec, but then keep it at 72 hours for nullsec jumps because nullsec facilities will be of poorer quality.
If you can't deal with a 72 hour timer for nullsec then yes, you need to have your operations closer together.
Because that would be oh so balanced
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Yolo
Caldari Intergalactic Combined Technologies
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Posted - 2009.08.09 23:54:00 -
[19]
72 hours is a good timer.
alot better then 24 hours, would make people think twice about jumping. Because they might have to gate home.
Also getting podded would reset the clone jump timer.
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Fille Balle
Dissolution Of Eternity
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Posted - 2009.08.10 19:09:00 -
[20]
I've got a better idea:
Reduce the timer to 12h, but set a max range in lightyears. That way, jump clones become less cumbersome to use for a casual player, but prevents a large amount of pilots to move across the galaxy with the blink of an eye.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.08.10 19:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Chi'kote Please don't forget that there is more in this game than the mega-alliance, mega-blob warfare in 0.0. It is not the only use for JCs. My corp, and I'm sure MANY others, have operations throughout eve. We have low-sec base for production, 0.0 base for ratting and mining, and a high-sec base for mission running. The only way to effectively use all 3, other than running 30-50 jumps whenever you want to switch from mission to mining to ratting, etc, is to have JCs available. I don't want to be punished 72 hrs because I want to jump to our mission hub for a day and then back to our production hub the next day.
As the other guy said before, logistics, manage them better, keep them more in line with each other.
What may be good for your corporate structure now may not be the best development for the game long term.
This way people are invested in certain regions of space and conflict actually becomes about something. Not people being all over the place just because they can.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.08.10 19:50:00 -
[22]
Why should the whole playerbase suffer for what in actuality is a nerf on alliances? If you want this make it so its an alliance only restriction. On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod! |
Lucas Avidius
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.08.11 02:37:00 -
[23]
Make the jump clone timer based on the distance jumped.
Jump between a PvP clone and a +5 Mission running clone 4 jumps away for some isk grinding? 11h timer.
Jump from Delve to Branch? 75 hour timer.
Allow people to jump before the timer is up for some penalty, either no training until the timer fully expires, or a random chance of skillpoint loss (up to a days worth or so) from a recently trained skill.
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HebrewBullion Excavator
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Posted - 2009.08.11 02:57:00 -
[24]
You are right, increasing the timer on JCs would really stick it to the powerblocs and help out the little guy. It's not like the big forces in eve can titan bridge people around, nor do they have a jump bridge infrastructure to rely on. And they certainly can't afford to pod themselves en masse.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.08.11 04:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: HebrewBullion Excavator You are right, increasing the timer on JCs would really stick it to the powerblocs and help out the little guy. It's not like the big forces in eve can titan bridge people around, nor do they have a jump bridge infrastructure to rely on. And they certainly can't afford to pod themselves en masse.
Then let them have to do that all the time and see how long they'll keep interests all over the place. The little guy can focus on one area. It's about time EVE got some frontlines again.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.11 05:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Snot Shot So does CCP ever let you know that they have read your post and what they think?
Dr. Shot
Not usually no. Also, the last time I saw CCP comment on JC timer they were thinking of reducing it not extending it. Well kind of they talked about possibly allowing to you to return to the clone you left at any time, not jump to another.
IIRC this was about 6 months ago though so it should be due to begin coding in about 1-2 years
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Romana Zangi
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.08.11 10:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Snot Shot Edited by: Snot Shot on 23/07/2009 17:48:17
So I donĘt know if this thread exists or not but I thought I would throw this out there since the new patch is coming up and it might be a quick fix of sorts. During the Delve where the NC provided most of the support to win the war it was noted that their ability to defend home space and fight in the south was mostly due to Jump Clones. Well if thatĘs the case that you can now effectively fight in two locations easily thus allowing for massive Power Blocs to form I have an idea for CCP and its simple:
Extend the Jump Clone timer from 24-hours to 72-hours.
This would force Alliances to think twice about jumping out other regions to be the deciding factor in a war effort among other impacts. POS timers fall below the 72-hour window and the strategic value of the JC to support the Power Block would be negated.
/signed
Nice would be to have a skill-clone for a fast clonejump, that only can be used for skilling and the possibility to jump back in the clone you used before the skillclone (only in this one) for 72 hours. That would be nice for all players being afraid to loose their implants. This will stimulate this players to pvp.
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Johnny Gurkha
Repo Distribution and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.08.11 10:21:00 -
[28]
Jump clones are fine, it's the bridging thats made New Eden smaller than it actually is
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