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Killboards - Do they improve your EVE experience?

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Psiri	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:37:00 - [1] When killboards first came around the corner I thought that they were very cool, finally pilots had a tool to track their kills and losses. Sure, it was flawed (and still is) with the actual loss estimations being poor, killboard systems favoring gang/fleet pilots etc. However, as time has gone by I feel that killboards are taking much of the fun away from EVE. It's gotten PvP revolving more around e-peen than actual loss/profit and I feel that many corporations are taking them way too seriously. Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule.
Gul Tural	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:51:00 - [2] Originally by: Psiri Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule. You basically answered your own question here. Yes it does enhance your experience because killboards will make you think twice about a fitting.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:56:00 - [3] When I'm doing well I like them, and when i'm doing badly I ignore them. Right now my K:D is pretty pro \o/
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:57:00 - [4] I dont think he was asking himself a question thus the notion he answered it himself is null.
Gul Tural	Posted - 2009.07.24 09:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Nova Fox I dont think he was asking himself a question thus the notion he answered it himself is null. Topic title is a 100% pure question.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:06:00 - [6] Ah yes it is a question but what sort of variety?
Gul Tural	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Nova Fox Ah yes it is a question but what sort of variety? the one that requieres an answer? :)
Xious Caldari Silent Wolves 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:18:00 - [8] I think they help introduce competition among corp/alliance members, which is always good. They also help you track your performence so it makes it hella easier to set goals like "100 kills in x days"
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:19:00 - [9] Would, if it was ingame and automated. Also a Wing Commander style "chalk killboard" of all the things you've blown up PVE would be nice. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Mors Magne M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.24 10:20:00 - [10] Edited by: Mors Magne on 24/07/2009 10:22:30 The killboards are encouraging me to invent 'oddball' fits to counter standard fits that are likely to be thrown at me. In fact, an 'oddball' Nightmare surprised me and killed my Fleet Stabber last night. The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:22:00 - [11] They're unforgiving to noobs and those who harbor them. We do and we've more than once heard people tell us they're not impressed with our statistics. These days when someone asks for a link to our board I just tell them to get lost. Most often in a roundabout socially approved manner. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Mors Magne M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:40:00 - [12] If you PvP in a good gang, you should do ok on the killboards. In this situation, they are encouraging The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
Cipher7 Slag Industries	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:47:00 - [13] It's one more metric. Either you play the killboard game or no.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Xious I think they help introduce competition among corp/alliance members, which is always good. They also help you track your performence so it makes it hella easier to set goals like "100 kills in x days" this Killboards leave a permanent record of pilot achievement - without them, you could kill people all day long and nobody would really know or care. Posting a nice killmail is much more satisfying than the kill itself in most cases Killboards encourage PvP imo - Contagious -
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:56:00 - [15] They can be a useful tool, but they do nothing for the already massive girth of my internet genitals. Like most things, there is a balance to the use of killboards. They can be great for fostering competition within a corp or alliance as well as keeping track of performance, but at the same time they can make people afraid of taking chances, for fear of looking foolish. Frankly, everyone should just keep their killboards private. Less e-peen waving that way.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.24 11:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Xious I think they help introduce competition among corp/alliance members, which is always good. They also help you track your performence so it makes it hella easier to set goals like "100 kills in x days" this Killboards leave a permanent record of pilot achievement - without them, you could kill people all day long and nobody would really know or care. Posting a nice killmail is much more satisfying than the kill itself in most cases Killboards encourage PvP imo Agreed. And I for one love the commnets fileds on most killboards as well (Well, our private killboard at any rate). Public killboards has its uses as well, and I think Battle clinic has had somenice stats updates, and got a decent estimate of isk values. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:00:00 - [17] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/07/2009 12:04:57 I agree with the OP in all points. Killboards destroy the fun on EVE. Many "carebears" don't want try PVP because they don't want be humiliated by their poor performance, who would be reported in all KBs by syndication. Many PVP players have serious e-peen problem and do everything to keep his stats as high as possible, accusating corpmates at the same time, etc... Sometimes, I refuse to participate to an OP because I am sure that I will add one loss to my stats (And I have only 41 losses...). Etc... Same if you don't care of your stats, some people will make you remember of their existence. They are good only for people who like them... Killboards need to be removed, or at least, to be modified, and I think the best solution to modify them, is to remove the victim name of a Killmail/Lossmail. Only this, so Corp/Alliance of the victim still remains, his fit, etc... This would solve all problems : Killmails still give his gratification to the killers/Corp/Alliance, but the loss will be only Corp/Alliance. No fear for a big history loss in a PERSONAL view, so this would motivate recalcitrants players to try PVP, try exotic fits, etc... Without removing the benefits of the KBs. _______ Local is fine, period.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Sky Marshal Killboards need to be removed, or at least, to be modified, and I think the best solution to modify them, is to remove the victim name of a killmail. Only this. This would solve all problems : Killmails still give his rewards to the killers/Corp/Alliance, but the loss will be only Corp/Alliance. No fear for a big history loss in a PERSONAL view. This would motivate recalcitrants players to try PVP, without removing the benefits of the KBs. I disagree. It will not sovle the non existant problem at all. If killboards mean that much to you, that you will not join in an OP. Then it sounds like a personal problem, not a killboard problem tbh. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Shinnen Caldari Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:11:00 - [19] Edited by: Shinnen on 24/07/2009 12:14:55 For me, I mainly solo / small gang pvp now. I like it that I can track what I've killed in a nicely visual represented manner. And my e-peen does grow when I look at some kills where 2 AFs killed a BS and you get a nice K:D ratio. BUT (and it's a big one) I find it frustrating that the statistics are very arbitrary (and only exist for the sole purpose of comparing one to other pvpers) If I lose a 180m isk fitted Phobos, it leaves a mark on your "efficiency %" but should it really since I lost it to a carrier hotdrop? Or last week I lost 4 ships. 3 of those deaths I was outnumbered at least 5:1. Yet it still leaves a mark, and to someone who doesn't pay attention, eventhough there was absolutely no way I could have survived any of those fights it's still bundled among the 1 fight that was my own stupid fault! Basically, what I'm saying, unless you look at circumstances, which often are impossible to know just from looking at a killmail. The statistics on killboards are useless. edit: I must say, just looking at my own stats now, that the "isk killed:isk lost" and "kill:death" ratios do somewhat show circumstances. For example: (since corp setup this killboard) I have killed ~3.5 times the number of ships I've lost. But I have destroyed 7 times the amount of ISK that I've lost. (epeen!!)
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.07.24 12:54:00 - [20] I do find killboards quite nice as: 1) Bit of a laughter at certain fits/fights 2) Fight remainder 3) Intel tool 4) A tool to keep track of how you're performing compared to yourself at/in different times/ships It really might be frustrating to people who're not all that good in PvP, but tbh after you cross a certain border you really stop caring all that much.
Peter Powers FinFleet	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:26:00 - [21] short answer: yes long answer: i like being competative, and killboards or ranking tools like everanking are a good way to make pvp more of a competition, also they allow to measure ones performance and see how well one is doing compared to others.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs I disagree. It will not sovle the non existant problem at all. If killboards mean that much to you, that you will not join in an OP. Then it sounds like a personal problem, not a killboard problem tbh. People hate lose. Only PVP specialized players think that "carebears" don't want PVP or go to low/null sec only because of a risk/reward ratio. It is a reason, but not the only one, it is more complicated that this. And as they like stats, they can't understand people who hate them and can't see any of their problems. Same if you don't care of your stats, others players will care of yours. So Killboards have an impact on your playstyle. You can't do whatever you want so can't have fun, as you have to work efficiently. Personaly, I don't use any fragile ships (dictors, ceptors, etc...), to avoid some losses. I don't think that I am the only one, as my Alliance often whine about the leak of dictors on fleet. A loss is a loss, whatever the size of the ship or the importance of the ship. So indeed, it is a personal problem, but you will make an error if you think that we could be only few ones to have this behaviour. People hate lose. So Killboards are an annoyance as they encourage the fear of lose by keeping an history, but it can be corrected without removing their advantages. Originally by: Kaileen Starsong It really might be frustrating to people who're not all that good in PvP, but tbh after you cross a certain border you really stop caring all that much. Same if you don't care of your stats, others players will care of yours. I don't think your CEOs or your corpmates would appreciate a 1:3 ratio in your stats. Well, you have 14:1, so it is not a problem for you. Killboards means competition, but competition don't have only advantages. _______ Local is fine, period.
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:34:00 - [23] I dislike killboards and to a lesser extent killmails. Because the minute an out of game statistic holds more value to a player than an ingame statistic (like isk) things tend to get skewed horribly. Ransoms get declined over favour of the mighty K:D and Destroyed:Lost ratios. To some people the only option IS to kill, ransoms have no foothold. But, on the other hand, Killboards and Killmails have been resident in eve for far too long for anything to change significantly. Even if they do hurt the game (Subjective to each persons viewpoint) nothing can really be done without "hurting" organisations built around their Killmail shrines. I personally think CCP dislikes the way people have formed around killmails, otherwise CCP would have a central killboard set up themselfs by now. But who really knows? Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.07.24 13:56:00 - [24] I have no use for killboards. I don't use them, don't read them, and don't care that they exist. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Armoured C Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.24 14:19:00 - [25] in short yes in longer detail YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES Armoured C forum extraordinaire #69 top poster
MasterEnt	Posted - 2009.07.24 14:53:00 - [26] I completely agree with you. Too many epeens and people thinking they are master admirals. This is why EVE has no central KB, they are hosted outside. CCP saw this would be a result and it does take away from the game. My Corp had always been a powerhouse and we dabbled in all EVE had to offer. But now we have some new blood up in the ranks and all they do is check your KB every day and make policy based on that. Like they forget about everything else EVE has to offer. They do take it WAY too seriously. Kind of annoying. I guess these guys donÆt get much recognition for anything they do in life and this is the only way it can get quantified. There are several issues here: 1) The way sovereignty is gained and held, needs to include more aspects of EVE, which by devblogs, CCP seems to be doing. 2) Public KBs as opposed to internal war/casualty reports. 3) Small realpeens Maybe other types of boards the focus more on economic might, or production ability may help spread it out.
Armoured C Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.24 15:03:00 - [27] it good to see how many people you have killed. some people like to know, somepeople arn't bothered with it. most of the time you dont get the loots for bigger battles so i use my KM as a trophy. I would much rather collect heads that trophies but it is of similar things. they are also handy for intellegence gathering since you see kills in a perticular area on one day and different the next you can learn enemy movements. Armoured C forum extraordinaire #69 top poster
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.07.24 15:11:00 - [28] Yeah they do. I enjoy breaking other people's stuff. I could probably work how much of their stuff I had broken with a calculator and the original killmail but a killmail makes it nice and convenient. What's wrong with that? Quote: Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, Meh. Space money is so easy to get and it doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies like seeing the expensive stuff people had on their ship. I'd do it without a killboard just for the lulz but a KB prolongs the untowards chuckling session that ensues when I pop something expensive. Quote: would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, Risky or pointless? I guess you're right to an extent. I see a lot of people who fly like total wimps. I can't really fault them for it tactically but I do feel like their egos just can't cope with losing. On the bright side you know that popping those people is going to feel twice as good and make them feel twice as bad, so meh. Quote: don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule. Why would it put you off that? People don't necessarily laugh at oddball fits. It's more total fail fits that make people guffaw. By that I mean fits that attempted something in a totally poorly thought out manner or attempted something that was just never going to work. Oddball fits are more likely to get people thinking tbh. "What's he done there? What's the thought process? Is that as silly as it looks?" What it does provide you with is data on the efficacy of weird fits and new tactics.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.07.24 16:35:00 - [29] Originally by: Rawr Cristina ...Killboards encourage PvP imo Killboards encourage gank and blobs as everyone wants in on a kill, for the sake of killboard bragging rights and no-one wants to be caught out for the whole world to see. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:00:00 - [30] Originally by: Psiri However, as time has gone by I feel that killboards are taking much of the fun away from EVE. It's gotten PvP revolving more around e-peen than actual loss/profit and I feel that many corporations are taking them way too seriously. Wall of Text incoming: PvP is always about e-peen. Killboards offer a way to prove or disprove a PvPer's boasting that would otherwise not be available. For example, I'm told by recent WoW refugees that World of Warcraft added a stat tracking system that says you've killed NPC Boss X however many times, or you have X number of player kills - but what it doesn't say is who was killed, what level they were, or anything else relevant to whether or not the kill was 'good', so what you get is a lot of gankbears saying "look at me, I r pro (WoW) pvper, I have 9001 player kills, phear mah 1336 skillz!!!" But what you don't see is that he's a level 80 toon camping quest points in a level 20 zone smashing newbies by the dozen and running away when high level players come to discourage him. In EVE, we had a guy called Ginger Magician camping gates and killing haulers, shuttles and noob ships then coming to the forum to crow and preen about his thousands of kills making him the best PvPer EVAR!!!! Fortunately for us, we did have killboards and we could see what a waste of space he was, so all of his 1552 boasting was met with ridicule until he finally made RL threats at someone and got banned like an idiot. Recently, a pretty average gatecamping pirate corp got into a bunch of flak about editing a killmail to make their member look like less of a noob - he lost an Arazu to a Rifter, and the killmail was changed so that instead of displaying the ship he was killed by as a Tech 1 frigate, it was displayed as something else - a Dominix, if I remember correctly. Well, as we all know these killmails are often posted to multiple killboards, so the discrepancy was spotted immediately and much comedy ensued at the expense of the leet pvpers editing killmails to not look like noobs. Just like when a police detective is found to plant evidence it throws all of his previous arrests and subsequent convictions into question, so too was the united's entire PvP reputation tarnished by this. Now whenever they get to crowing about how awesome and scary and FIERCE PIRAT WARRIOR they are, we all just laugh at them. Their CEO is a meme. OPs like yours come along once a month or so, where someone who's bad at PvP or afflicted with pixel fear has been laughed at or is so afraid of being laughed at by internet spaceship nerds that he wants to garner support for pressing CCP to remove killmails, making killboards defunct. They think that it's the killboards' fault that 'leetkid' pvpers are arrogant and unfriendly toward strangers. They think that, without killboards, those people would all behave completely differently. Those people don't 'get' pvp; as suggested by the anecdotes above, a lack of killboards would make these people behave even worse. You think it's bad having to listen to the current PvP A-list (and B-list and C-list) crow about their uberness? Imagine having to listen to EVERYBODY, including scrubs like kow killa, go on and on about their internet spaceship mightiness and having no means of proving their claims false to shut them up? ~~Every 'leet' pvper~~ Every 'competent or better' pvper who isn't on a second toon (meaning, they haven't sold or traded their first 'main' to buy and/or bought a new one) has some old but fairly-easy-to-find loss mails from years ago that would make us all chuckle. Depending on whether they found a good corp early or not, and depending on their natural aptitude toward video games, some pilots have more of these embarrassing lossmails in their past than others. I think I've got a dozen or so, but I found BattleClinic and SHC early on, so I had access to good fittings and advice to save me from my inexperience. TL;DR: L2P. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Shinnen edit: I must say, just looking at my own stats now, that the "isk killed:isk lost" and "kill:death" ratios do somewhat show circumstances. For example: (since corp setup this killboard) I have killed ~3.5 times the number of ships I've lost. But I have destroyed 7 times the amount of ISK that I've lost. (epeen!!) edit 2: I also have 8 times the number of killpoints compared to loss points! BTW, I'm not so much epeening as pointing out that you have to look into more than just the factors displayed in a little box. How does this compare to other corp members? How does this compare to my time spent online? etc etc. This, yeah. The ISK efficiency is its own stat - and it will show whether you're just flying T1 frigates and leeching onto killmails or whether you're flying (risking) the best ships you can bring to the table for your gang. If you have 20 losses and have lost 4m ISK, it looks a lit different from someone with 20 losses who has lost 2b ISK. Also, the kill/loss points paint a pretty clear picture - if you have 100 kills but only 50 kill points, it's clear that you only fly with 'the blob' and gank people, because kill points (and accordingly, the loss points assessed to a 'victim') are cut down the more people are involved in a kill. So if you've got 100 kills and 10 losses with 50 kill points and 1000 loss points... it's very clearly different from 10 kills with 1000 kill points and 100 losses with 50 loss points. The raw K:D ratio (which is simply ships killed vs. ships lost, regardless of ISK value and kill/loss points) looks crappy for the second guy, but I know who I'd rather fly with. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Frobos	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:13:00 - [32] Just like sports.....if humans didn't have an insatiable desire to compete, win at competing, and then brag about our victories while sitting atop the highest mountain, ESPN would most likely be a arts & crafts channel. [/slip into flame-resistant suit] I'm going out on a limb here and say that killboards came about pre-killmail implementation and not only aren't needed anymore just to keep track of your kills/losses, but I wouldn't be surprised if they become even more ingrained. And who knows if (when) CCP will finally break down and make the "feature" part of the web site and/or in-game viewing.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:16:00 - [33] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 24/07/2009 17:16:04 Originally by: Psiri When killboards first came around the corner I thought that they were very cool, finally pilots had a tool to track their kills and losses. Sure, it was flawed (and still is) with the actual loss estimations being poor, killboard systems favoring gang/fleet pilots etc. However, as time has gone by I feel that killboards are taking much of the fun away from EVE. It's gotten PvP revolving more around e-peen than actual loss/profit and I feel that many corporations are taking them way too seriously. Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule. Of course. I can look at it and discuss with my corpmates over a lolworthy kill. I can harass my corpmates over embarrassing kills (in a joking manner, of course). Killboards are awesome.. Then again, my corp doesn't really care too much about ePeening...I suppose if we gave a damn about epic killboard stats and ePeens that you could impale small (internet) children on, it would be annoying.
Adeline Grey	Posted - 2009.07.24 17:43:00 - [34] Yes. I love killboards. I wish we had a built-in Eve wide killboard.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.24 18:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Rawr Cristina ...Killboards encourage PvP imo Killboards encourage gank and blobs as everyone wants in on a kill, for the sake of killboard bragging rights and no-one wants to be caught out for the whole world to see. so do you think that without killboards everyone would fly around solo or in evenly matched gangs looking for good fights? IMO, Without the reward of killmails, the only reward would be ISK from your kills; you'd see even more ganks and running away here because nobody wants to lose ISK for nothing. If you lose a ship, but kill some people in the process - It's not so bad, you lost but it dosen't feel so bad since you got some killmails out of it. Take away those killmails and the only thing that really matters is who got to pick the loot up - Contagious -
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:34:00 - [36] Edited by: Spaceman Jack on 24/07/2009 19:38:37 - Yes KBs promote PVP. - No KBs do not improve my PVP experience. - Removing KB would not kill PVP. Blowing up a ship is just as fun to me regardless of whether others find out about it or not. People still like to kill and dominate others in thier own mind and we will always need to PVP in order to secure territory. Other peoples opinions do not interest me. Especially those who do nothing more with their time other than play games for 20 hours a day and worry about virtual KB stats. You wanna brag about kills, join the military. If you are going to boast about some BS you did while sitting at home in your air-conditioned seat... you are useless.
Iece Quaan Caldari Aperture Harmonics	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:43:00 - [37] I think killboards have largely ended the interminable arguments of old where people disputed who killed what and when. Which is fine. Eve needs a way for opponents to track the effectiveness of war campaigns against each other. However, the arguing about who killed what is now replaced with the relative value of kills vs. opponents kills, and arguing over stat interpretation to show that you are doing better ( or your opponent doing worse ) than is shown. I think there's a strong departure from "pvp for the love of the game" as opposed to pvp for point-whoring epeen. It's not as though it was ever about anything other than epeen, but simple point amalgamations and k/d ratios make it worthwhile to kill anyone, doing anything, in any ship or situation- as opposed to a more nebulous sort of glory for killing something high-value. There's every incentive to simply shoot everything that moves for points, which closes off opportunity for deeper interaction between players.
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:45:00 - [38] Originally by: Psiri killboard systems favoring gang/fleet pilots etc. Also, killboards don't 'favor' gang/fleet pilots etc. The smaller your gang, the more points each individual pilot gets, up to solo kills which earn the most kill points. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Rawr Cristina ...Killboards encourage PvP imo Killboards encourage gank and blobs as everyone wants in on a kill, for the sake of killboard bragging rights and no-one wants to be caught out for the whole world to see. so do you think that without killboards everyone would fly around solo or in evenly matched gangs looking for good fights? IMO, Without the reward of killmails, the only reward would be ISK from your kills; you'd see even more ganks and running away here because nobody wants to lose ISK for nothing. If you lose a ship, but kill some people in the process - It's not so bad, you lost but it dosen't feel so bad since you got some killmails out of it. Take away those killmails and the only thing that really matters is who got to pick the loot up Like the guy below you said, I don't need others to read a board to validate my fun. Blobs were less frequent before killboards yes, does it necessarily have anything to do with each other, the server being less populated, questionable. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.24 19:51:00 - [40] Killboards are a pretty sweet intelligence tool. So often a hostile gang is reported in Providence but nobody can say what the hostile gang is flying. Look up that alliance's killboard, check out their latest victim in Providence, and there's a good indicator of what the hostile gang is packing right there. One can fire up a gang specifically designed to stop the hostile gang with a quickness and without ever having to directly scout the hostile gang. This works well enough even with the killboards that "classify" a kill location. If you have a list of hostile names, and you can find a kill that occured within the past few minutes that contains those names, it's a pretty good indicator that's the gang you're looking for.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:12:00 - [41] Some people enjoy games as much for the statistics involved as for the fun of actually playing the game itself. Kills are just another statistic in this PVP based game. If you really think those pirates popped your ship simply because they wanted to pad their KB stats, and that if there were no KB's they would have ransomed you instead, you need to rethink what motivates most pirates. It is often quicker to just kill the ship and take its loot than to mess around with a ransom. And for those pirates who aren't that worried about the value of each kill they make, well, they would kill you for the pleasure of doing so whether your death was recorded on a KB somewhere or not. If you don't like KB's, dont' use them... don't look at them... don't worry about them. They affect your gameplay not one wit unless "YOU" care a bit too much about what those KB's say. And in that case its you that is the problem, not the fact that KB's exist. Frankly, KB's of one type or another are inevitable. EVE is primarily a PVP game, why would you NOT keep track of combat results. It would be like playing Basketball without keeping score, and instead basing your view of who is doing better in that competitive sport by comparing the quality of their mascots, size of each players salary, and who had the best looking car. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:15:00 - [42] I want an CCP Killboard... I don't trust the other ones. Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:21:00 - [43] They are used as an intel tool. In that sense I don't like them. If you want to know what someone fits you should have to use espionage, ship scanners or just plain common sense, not your web browser. Also, KB whoring promotes meaningless PvP. I am not fulfilled when someone kills me just to see a number increase but for no other reason. In fact I hate that... is it a lot of the reason I don't PvP much anymore. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Hoo Is	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:30:00 - [44] Originally by: Wet Ferret They are used as an intel tool. In that sense I don't like them. If you want to know what someone fits you should have to use espionage, ship scanners or just plain common sense, not your web browser. Also, KB whoring promotes meaningless PvP. I am not fulfilled when someone kills me just to see a number increase but for no other reason. In fact I hate that... is it a lot of the reason I don't PvP much anymore. I agree... I hate the 'artificial' intel that KB's provide (and local but that is another argument). I also refuse to pop a ship just cause I got weapons on it and can... I like to have some sort of reason behind it other than trying to pad my KB numbers --------------- The Real Audrey Bitoni is hot This Capcha Sucks and is ineffective
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.07.24 20:54:00 - [45] If you don't like killboards then don't set one up. For other people it is important. Be it their epeen or a tool to monitor the quality of corp members or just a fine way of remembering a long gone engagement that made your heart pump - whats the matter? It hurts no one. Do people take them too seriously? Oh well this is eve people take everything way too seriously and thats why it is such a great experience. People will always be idiots they don't need killboards to do that. -- Originally by: Jasper Dark I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.07.24 21:32:00 - [46] Never used a killboard, couldn't care less. Of course, I don't PvP, but I'm on a few people's KB's. Never understood the fascination, would think that the next kill is infinitely more important than the last one, TBH.
No Homo Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.24 21:37:00 - [47] My ePeen is so big it can bruise lady's cervices just lookin' at it.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.07.24 21:49:00 - [48] Only thing I find ****ed about 'kill boards' is its not about the number of kills, but the isk you cost someone to lose. Should be called ISK BOARDS. And who ransoms anything worth less than a billion isk anyway? Originally by:** Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here i was thinking earlier about corpses...
MasterEnt	Posted - 2009.07.24 22:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Iece Quaan I think killboards have largely ended the interminable arguments of old where people disputed who killed what and when. Which is fine. Eve needs a way for opponents to track the effectiveness of war campaigns against each other. I did not know that was a serious problem affecting the fun of the game. like you said though, it just started another set of problems. Case in point, at the end of the day, KB do little to add to the game other than to make some people feel better about something. It has little real value since any kind of intel can be done privately with KillMails, public KB do nothing but stroke ego. For the rest of us with big realpeens, we could care less.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:03:00 - [50] Two things that "hurt" (if it really mattered) the game: Killboards Mountain Dwarf Syndrome When it becomes all about the KB and people treat their clone vats like respawn points, as if it were a game of "Modern Warfare", it breaks the "expensive death" concept, which is still expensive for those who don't have the resources. I suspect that with all non-gank non-blob players being run out of lowsec, the clone vats, or more like the reason to have one in lowsec, will run dry. Mountain Dwarf Syndrome relates to the mountain dwarves seen in "The Hobbitt". Those greedy little dwarves, who just have to have it all, in ISK actually. EVERYTHING to them is based on ISK/Hour rate and they are as boring to deal with as a real person in a lounge talking about finace all day. If these people actually went to E-Bay with the same marketing and trade skills they used in game they could be very rich (but are afraid to risk eral money). What would be better than killboards would be a way to modify the graphics of our own ships in a pre-set way (so the server does not get overloaded) to have tallies or little ship images on our own ships that we have taken out, like an old WWII fighter plane. That would not only be a flying killboard of sorts and a warning to others, but cool too. Cool is good. If it were up to me, we should also be able to nail the frozen corpses of victims to our ships or stick their heads on the antenna - or put that big sticker thing on the Incurses to good use finally. But hey that's just be and it's Friday so I am getting rowdy.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:26:00 - [51] Well I look at killmails like trophies so I think they add to my experience, it's like kodak-moment you have a memory for life lol
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:32:00 - [52] didn't WoW have "killboards" first? i dunno just wondering.
DigitalCommunist November Corporation	Posted - 2009.07.25 00:50:00 - [53] Killboards were a great improvement on the days when people would bs about events, or have he-said-she-said caod wars. But, kills don't matter much now. PVP is a general passtime, which is incredibly easy to support. Battleships may still cost the same, but when you aren't investing weeks to replace them, the outcome of even dramatic and massive fleet battles has hardly any effect on you.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.07.25 03:11:00 - [54] Killboards are awesome. They give me all sorts of free intel about the current target I'm stalking. This is also why I don't poast killmails. Originally by: Vaden Khale He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.07.25 03:55:00 - [55] Until we joined Burning Horizons basically Galactic Express didn't use a killboard, so stats for us before that are sporadic and inaccurate. That said they can be useful. I like to look over enemy fits to see how better to fit my own ships. Though usually I can't afford the most expensive fits. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal
Trabber Shir Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.07.25 04:34:00 - [56] I think that the biggest kill boards have is they are too generic. A pirate that is trying to make ISK through PvP should be more interestd in the ration of value lost to value dropped by opponents. A mercenary trying to show they can cause finantial harm to a mark should be interested in advertising the reverse of that (enemy gains/losses). People at war should be interested in (lost-looted)/destroyed ISK ratio to indicate how much impact the war is having on the participants total resources. If you are looking for leet epeen you should be interested in kill points/loss points. etc. Similarly, a pirate should be putting custom entries on his KB indicating ransoms received. As it stands all killboards seem focused on the leet epeen aspect even when they should have more practical uses (advertising merc corps, evaluating profitability, etc.).
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2009.07.25 04:35:00 - [57] I'm not a fan of killmails. Often, the killmail is more important to someone than winning the fight. A tackler remaining on the opposite side of a gate won't be too happy about not getting to participate in a kill. Logistics ships are forced to use weapons of some sort to get on killmails. When I was in a 0.0 alliance, I'd hear a swarm of "Wheres the killmail? Who got the killmail? Someone post the killmail." while there were still hostiles in system; the killmail was more important than winning the battle to people. Others would even fire randomly at everyone, to make sure they got on every mail. I havn't had to deal with any of that lately, but the concept still remains. People will kill things that offer no benefit (isk, harming an enemy, etc.) to pad killboard stats. What finally drove me out of 0.0 entirely was the question "Anyone want to camp the empire gate? I need to pad my killboard stats.". Yes, they actually admitted they just wanted to look good on the killboard. I asked them if they wanted to join a roaming gang and they declined, because they were more likely to die and not look as good on the killboard. After joining a better corp, I've had none of those problems, but killboard stats are still given too much credit by most people. For example, destroying 200 million on an enemy looks 'better' than destroying a billion and losing a battleship for 150 million. Even if the ship is replaced immediately, cheap enough to be meaningless... In reality, the 'weight' of a loss has to due with the capacity of an enemy to replace the ship. If you lose a billion isk worth the ships, but destroy everything the enemy has, where they cannot replace ships... this would still, logically, be a 'win'. But in killboard-online, people would drool more over losing nothing and dealing insignificant damage to an enemy. Because the efficiency looks good. Less "We won the fight!" and more "Oh wow this ship had a faction mod fapfapfap".
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2009.07.25 06:20:00 - [58] I find it amusing that the "hardcore" pvp'ers tend to be the ones most terrified about showing up on the wrong end of the killboard.
Bestofworst Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.25 06:45:00 - [59] Edited by: Bestofworst on 25/07/2009 06:50:06 I don't post killmails too often. because it's either so inconvenient (having to log in, or a killboard site acting up). Or if I lose I either: A) Want to fit another ship and kill the guy who got me or B) Log off and take a break My view on it, I look on killboards only when I'm bored and I only look at my own stats. I hardly care about if I came out in an lol fit. Edit: And to prove I don't care, here is a killmail of me being caught by amarr militia in high-sec while travelling a hyperion I fitted with mining lasers to attend someones mining op on a slow night. ---- My Music Anything I say is only what I think. If you have a problem with me, take it up with me.
Insa Rexion Minmatar Ray of Matar Assembly	Posted - 2009.07.25 06:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Rawr Cristina posting a nice killmail is much more satisfying than the kill itself in most cases Really ? well mannered ah*
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.25 08:59:00 - [61] It is not that the killboards force players to play it safe and proper. These corporations and individuals that pay excessive attention to kb stats choose to do so out of their own free will. You take the kb away they will come us with other ways to measure their pvp ability - say, by collecting corpses for example Link to PVP University
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.25 09:10:00 - [62] Originally by: The AEther It is not that the killboards force players to play it safe and proper. These corporations and individuals that pay excessive attention to kb stats choose to do so out of their own free will. You take the kb away they will come us with other ways to measure their pvp ability - say, by collecting corpses for example Corpse collections rock. I still say we should be able to stick their heads on our ships. When then you hover over the head, it says "Joe Gotspanked's Severed Head" or something like that.
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.07.25 10:34:00 - [63] i like my personal killboard, its so much nicer than the killmail crap in game. its fun to link it to my wow playing friends and knowing they have no clue whats going on. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Kiran Minmatar BETA Industries	Posted - 2009.07.26 05:49:00 - [64] I think those that use Kill boards religiously are lacking some where else in life. Its like the meat heads at the local bar compairing scars or tatoos.
MukkBarovian	Posted - 2009.07.26 06:52:00 - [65] I'm pretty sure eve does have a kb. I like to think I'm a 'a-list' pvper to quote that guy who said alot of intelligent things but I didn't bother remembering his name. At very least I'm b-list. I don't go on about it because anyone who cares can go look at the killboard. So I don't often sit around monkey thumnping my chest. The only time I really say anything is when someone else we fight points at us on the forums and starts flinging poo. Then we link the killboard with a campaign specific to them on the thread. And the thread dies. We generally haave very high percentage ratios against the guys who do this. The few people who stomp us generally dont say anything about it. The big exception being no trademark, we were at 50% with them last time I looked. I play EvE for killmails and the thrill of combat. If killmails were removed I would still pvp. But, I would have no idea how good I was compared to anybody I hadn't faced in combat. And I would be alot richer from many ransoms. Although the rare time I do try to ransom people express the desire to spit in my face rather than pay for their safety.
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.07.26 11:59:00 - [66] Originally by: Kiran I think those that use Kill boards religiously are lacking some where else in life. Its like the meat heads at the local bar compairing scars or tatoos. "They're better than me at video games, or sports, or doing other things people generally consider 'cool'; obviously they 'are lacking some where else in life.'" Get a grip, man... it's internet spaceships. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2009.07.26 13:26:00 - [67] Originally by: Psiri When killboards first came around the corner I thought that they were very cool, finally pilots had a tool to track their kills and losses. Sure, it was flawed (and still is) with the actual loss estimations being poor, killboard systems favoring gang/fleet pilots etc. However, as time has gone by I feel that killboards are taking much of the fun away from EVE. It's gotten PvP revolving more around e-peen than actual loss/profit and I feel that many corporations are taking them way too seriously. Many pilots would rather have a killmail than a ransom, would avoid extreme risk encounters that would be fun to attempt, don't wish to try and fly oddball fits and strange tactics in the fear of another lossmail or public ridicule. posting in this pointless thread. The problem is not killboards. its the players you are talking about. If your friends dont want to do risky stuff, thats because they don't want to do risky stuff. killboards do not favor any specific pilots. Hell most should have a ranking system that puts a spotlight on solo killers just as much as higher scores, damage dealers and killmails. So the idea tht it favors fleets or gangs is flawed. Also the idea that you say its no longer about lost profits but instead turned into an epeen thing, wtf do you think the whole lost profits thing was? KBs just prove you were there and killed what you said you killed.
shortattenionsp	Posted - 2009.07.27 00:13:00 - [68] Killboards are a good way of tracking kills and they do add to the game a lot. The overall "stats" they give you are meaningless though. I could be in a gang of 100 BS - kill 100 solo t1 cruisers with the gang - and then lose my bs to a celestis and i'd still have a 100:1 kill ratio when in reality i've been a total nub without exposing myself to any real risk. Likewike getting a warp disruptor on a dread before it goes down means i've "killed" a bil or two worth of ship. Also people who pvp in frigates are going to have a much worse kill ratio than people that will only roll out in a T2 ship with a big gang, but it means nothing about how skilled the player is. As a result some people will only fly expensive ships because they are worried about dying in a cheap ship so getting people to go out pvping becomes a chore. People are also unwilling to try out interesting or wacky setups and mostly go cookie cutter. They are useful as a record, but as far as useful stats and telling how good a player is, they're pretty crap. Real life contains enough **** to not have to worry about spurious internet spaceship stats and your epeen.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2009.07.27 14:31:00 - [69] One of the biggest detractors I have seen persoanlly, is the blind promotion of corp members based on kills or good FC skills. Good KB does not necessarily translate to being a good corporate level leader. Maybe a good FC, and fleet ops., but that does not necessarily make a them good Driector or manager. We have this issue in our corp righ now. Most of the current directors have been promoted mostly of thier involvement for PVP. And they are great FCs, but they are not good at organizing other aspects of the corp. In a 200 man PVP corp in a (0.0 PVP alliance) with 10 directors... having 8 of them been promoted due soley to PVP participation is a problem.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2009.07.27 15:01:00 - [70] The Killboard mechanic should be built into the game, IMO. These sorts of stats should be gamewide, otherwise they are just a snapshot, and biased because of voluntary adoption. Pretty useless in that form other than for bragging rights to a limited audience. It would not change my game one iota if those boards dissappeared. There is way too much decision making that occurs because of how it might look on the killboard, which really reduces the game if you ask me. Alliances and corporations attack other alliances and corporations based on how "easy" their opponents might be to kill, instead of what territory they control and how it benefits the attacker to have that territory. Turns the game into a simple shooter.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.07.27 15:04:00 - [71] Edited by: Ghoest on 27/07/2009 15:04:13 If they were in autom,atic in game feature they would be fun. As the 3rd party sh!t they are I dont bother reporting anything, all they do is add a level of busy work to my game enjoyment. Wherever you went - Here you are.

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