Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Whitehound
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 19:58:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Awesome Possum As someone who is a huge proponent of human culling, wars, abortion, and lowering the population by great means (as long as we are stuck on this island); I see no reason why a clone of myself who has absolutely no life experience could/should not be used to give someone with great life experience (me) a new life saving organ.
Then why do you not give yourself to someone who is just about to start to making a great life experience?
Why not share what you value the most with others?
As crazy as it sounds, but you could commit suicide only to give your organs to those who need them. --
|
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 20:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Whitehound Then why do you not give yourself to someone who is just about to start to making a great life experience?
Why not share what you value the most with others?
As crazy as it sounds, but you could commit suicide only to give your organs to those who need them.
Because knowledge is power and money, and as such, my own life is far more valuable than a clone with 0 knowledge or experience.
As for giving my own life to those who need it. That is a completely subjective term, and yes I would be willing to.. to those who I personally believed needed it. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Whitehound
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 20:06:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Awesome Possum As for giving my own life to those who need it. That is a completely subjective term, and yes I would be willing to.. to those who I personally believed needed it.
Then your fight against morals is futile. --
|
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 20:53:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Awesome Possum As for giving my own life to those who need it. That is a completely subjective term, and yes I would be willing to.. to those who I personally believed needed it.
Then your fight against morals is futile.
I have no fight against morals, my fight is against people who claim any form of universal ethics/morality.
Morals are completely subjective to the individual. Most people have a common belief in some morals, even if the precise details may differ per person, but it doesn't make it universal. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Mr Reeth
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 22:08:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Because knowledge is power and money, and as such, my own life is far more valuable than a clone with 0 knowledge or experience.
So you're saying that human life in and of itself has no value?
Or are you saying that the value of a life can be quantified?
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 22:13:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Because knowledge is power and money, and as such, my own life is far more valuable than a clone with 0 knowledge or experience.
So you're saying that human life in and of itself has no value?
Or are you saying that the value of a life can be quantified?
Value is subjective and thus can be given in any arbitrary amount. -------- Ideas for: Mining
|
Mr Reeth
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 22:36:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Value is subjective and thus can be given in any arbitrary amount.
Probably, I was just looking for clarification on his opinion on the subject in order to better understand his argument.
|
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 22:48:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Because knowledge is power and money, and as such, my own life is far more valuable than a clone with 0 knowledge or experience.
So you're saying that human life in and of itself has no value?
Or are you saying that the value of a life can be quantified?
More subjective questions that can not have a universal answer.
Answer 1: http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/worth.asp
Answer 2: My buddy goes to the phillipines a lot and has heard the current price there for killing someone and paying off the cops to look away is ~ $600, prices will of course vary depending on location and social position of the exhumed.
Answer 3: All human life is created equal. After that, its up to every individual to determine their self worth.
Answer 4: The more there is of something in one place, the lower the value on it. As such, the higher the world's population becomes, the lower the value of the individual life. This may or may not change the moment humanity starts colonizing off the rock. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Mr Reeth
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 22:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
More subjective questions that can not have a universal answer.
I didn't ask the universe. I asked YOU.
You said your life is more valuable than a clones life.
In YOUR opinion does human life have no innate value or is the value in some way quantifiable?
I'm not picking a fight or trolling you. I'm just trying to see YOUR side.
|
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.25 23:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Originally by: Awesome Possum
More subjective questions that can not have a universal answer.
I didn't ask the universe. I asked YOU.
You said your life is more valuable than a clones life.
In YOUR opinion does human life have no innate value or is the value in some way quantifiable?
I'm not picking a fight or trolling you. I'm just trying to see YOUR side.
My answer was in the very post you quoted to ask me your question.
Why would you think the answer would change? ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
|
rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard. Soldiers of Solitude
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 00:05:00 -
[71]
Edited by: rValdez5987 on 26/07/2009 00:11:44 I've read the posts, jesus what a failure of logic.
While the abilities of each man and woman are NOT equal from the very beginning, your "value" is equal indefinitely.
If you are a living, breathing, human being capable of free choice, then you have just as much value as the next.
This is different from justifying your own existence. Your achievements, what you accomplish in your life, is what reinforces your right to your own existence. You are still worth no more than the next guy.
This applies to clones as well. If they are capable of free will, and are able to live and function just as you, then they are human, and their lives are equal value to you. They will be expected to justify their existence as well through achievement and hard work, and should be given the same opportunities.
Some of you have already made up your minds about how you see a clone as sub human regardless. You are wrong. As cloning becomes more acceptable, expect to see guidelines a bit along the lines of what I've mentioned. The clones will most likely be soulless vegetables that have zero brain activity if they are to be harvested for organs. Otherwise they will be independent and fully living. |
rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard. Soldiers of Solitude
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 00:11:00 -
[72]
One last extra bit on justifying existence, Justifying your existence, NOT YOUR SELF WORTH, but justifying your right to be on this planet and breathe air, is according to your achievement. If you achieve nothing, you deserve nothing, not even life. Truly useless people have no place on this planet. We haven't got the room, nor the resources. Although that sounds a bit inhumane, we need to deal with it whether its through euthanasia, assisted suicide, or genetic research.
The fat needs to be trimmed from our society, and the cancer removed, or society as a whole will perish. To use a metaphor: We have a small boat with a treasure chest in the boat, that over time has had sand dumped on top of it, and it's sinking the boat. It's better to be rid of the worthless grains of sand and keep the treasure than allow it all to sink to the bottom of the ocean.
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 00:22:00 -
[73]
Originally by: rValdez5987 Complete failure of logic
You are static a whole lot of subjective beliefs as if they were objective truth. Who defines what is or what isn't an accomplishment? Who's the judge? What defines something as an achievement? Which achievement is greater than another and why is that so? Who is giving out rights? Who defines them? Who enforces them? Nothing of this is objective absolute truth. It's all subjective and arbitrarily defined. It can be changed at will.
You need to learn the difference between subjective beliefs and objective reality. First step is getting over yourself and dropping the significance of your ego. -------- Ideas for: Mining
|
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 00:25:00 -
[74]
Originally by: rValdez5987 One last extra bit on justifying existence, Justifying your existence, NOT YOUR SELF WORTH, but justifying your right to be on this planet and breathe air, is according to your achievement. If you achieve nothing, you deserve nothing, not even life. Truly useless people have no place on this planet. We haven't got the room, nor the resources. Although that sounds a bit inhumane, we need to deal with it whether its through euthanasia, assisted suicide, or genetic research.
IMO, this statement doesn't fit with your others. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard. Soldiers of Solitude
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 00:37:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: rValdez5987 Complete failure of logic
You are static a whole lot of subjective beliefs as if they were objective truth. Who defines what is or what isn't an accomplishment? Who's the judge? What defines something as an achievement? Which achievement is greater than another and why is that so? Who is giving out rights? Who defines them? Who enforces them? Nothing of this is objective absolute truth. It's all subjective and arbitrarily defined. It can be changed at will.
You need to learn the difference between subjective beliefs and objective reality. First step is getting over yourself and dropping the significance of your ego.
If someone else finds value in whatever it is that you are doing, and what you're doing isn't morally, socially, or ethically apprehensive, then your existence is justified.
Anyone that has already justified their own existence, is qualified to judge. There is no difference in specific value however. |
rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard. Soldiers of Solitude
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 00:50:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: rValdez5987 One last extra bit on justifying existence, Justifying your existence, NOT YOUR SELF WORTH, but justifying your right to be on this planet and breathe air, is according to your achievement. If you achieve nothing, you deserve nothing, not even life. Truly useless people have no place on this planet. We haven't got the room, nor the resources. Although that sounds a bit inhumane, we need to deal with it whether its through euthanasia, assisted suicide, or genetic research.
IMO, this statement doesn't fit with your others.
I had to go back and re-read, and I changed it, but putting it all in words and being limited to 3500 characters or so is quite hard.
Believe it or not I could write a book on a lot of the common issues we face as a society today, their resolutions as well as what we need to be paying attention to as we look forward.
There's a good chance I will write a book, and there's also a good chance that nearly no one will read it.
As to the reason why, at the core of most of the people I know exists a feeling that they just do not care about what happens after they die. They wouldn't care if humanity just simply ended right after their passing. I had someone say to me the other day "why bother with a space program even if we can prolong the survival of the human race? Who cares if humanity survives?"
Humans are inherently short sighted, which allows other characters flaws to become present.
Back to clarifying what I said earlier, all humans who are born unequal in terms of talents, and flaws, are equal in the sense that we are all human, IF they possess certain qualities such as a functioning brain, body, and they possess free will. This fundamental right goes to everyone whether they are a human, clone, robot, cyborg, or anything in between. If they have the qualities that most of us healthy human beings have, they have this right.
Next we get to justifying your existence. You must contribute something that at least one other person finds value in that is not morally, socially, or ethically, apprehensive. This could be something large or small. As long as someone else finds value in it, size doesn't matter.
If you are so foolish to contribute absolutely nothing, that justifies your own existence, you deserve death.
Those who are incapable of achieving anything due to physical limits should also receive euthanasia.
While inhuman, it is necessary for the survival of mankind for the long term. The survival of the majority that has justified their existence, outweighs the survival of the minority that contribute nothing, and take away resources that are better spent elsewhere. |
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 07:07:00 -
[77]
Originally by: rValdez5987 If someone else finds value in whatever it is that you are doing, and what you're doing isn't morally, socially, or ethically apprehensive, then your existence is justified.
Anyone that has already justified their own existence, is qualified to judge. There is no difference in specific value however.
Everything you said is completely subjective and as such has no real substance. It can be changed at will into anything and it will be as valid as what you said. Your opinion does not equal truth. If I say, everything you said is completely wrong, it is as legit as what you said, even without any further (fantasy) explanation.
Until you drop this delusional stance of "my opinion = absolute truth" there will be no reasoning with you and any further conversation with you will be an****rcise in futility. -------- Ideas for: Mining
|
Whitehound
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 12:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Abrazzar Everything you said is completely subjective and as such has no real substance. It can be changed at will into anything and it will be as valid as what you said. Your opinion does not equal truth. If I say, everything you said is completely wrong, it is as legit as what you said, even without any further (fantasy) explanation.
Until you drop this delusional stance of "my opinion = absolute truth" there will be no reasoning with you and any further conversation with you will be an****rcise in futility.
Drop the rant. rValdez5987 is right, except perhaps about who deserves death. --
|
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 17:39:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Whitehound Drop the rant. rValdez5987 is right, except perhaps about who deserves death.
No, he's not.
Hey, see how opinions and differing ethics work? ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Munchees
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 18:55:00 -
[80]
Because then you really could "go **** yourself".
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Why is it every time I read somebody call all Americans stupid I hear it in a British accent and think of this |
|
Evthron Macyntire
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 19:23:00 -
[81]
The first thing we will do when we can clone people is harvest their organs and fluids.
Clones are people too.
Blah blah blah. ------------------------------ Sigs like this. |
Whitehound
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 20:04:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Awesome Possum No, he's not.
Hey, see how opinions and differing ethics work?
Yes, he is. That is not an opinion and there is no such thing as differing ethics, you fool. --
|
nahtoh
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 20:38:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Awesome Possum No, he's not.
Hey, see how opinions and differing ethics work?
Yes, he is. That is not an opinion and there is no such thing as differing ethics, you fool.
Yes there is...
What one person or group of people may consider ethical may not be the same as an other group or person...
Example death sentances or abortions... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
LUH 3472
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 20:50:00 -
[84]
cloning oh man...... what nonsense is cloning
reality still will get hold of you wether you clone the hell outta semen or not
jesus poeple have ideas......
man this is weirdo
|
Whitehound
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 20:53:00 -
[85]
Originally by: nahtoh Example death sentances or abortions...
Nonsense. Killing is unethical. That some nations allow it in some situations does not make it ethical, it only makes it legal. --
|
Iasius
Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 21:12:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Iasius on 26/07/2009 21:16:27 Edited by: Iasius on 26/07/2009 21:13:57 Edited by: Iasius on 26/07/2009 21:13:07 'Morality' ruler:-
If someone in your family dies this is very bad and has a big effect on you. Relatively pain index - 100
If 20 people die on your street: Relatively pain index - 100.
If 10000 people die in your town: Relatively pain index = 100.
If 100,000 people die in your country. Relatively pain index = 100.
if 100,000,000 die in the world. Relatively pain index = 100.
What i am getting at in a rough measure is that we are a predator speicies with two eyes forwards - hunters. In reality what we measure as loss is what we see in the world is juxtaposed against our inate tribal loyalties.
The Rwandan genocide killed 1 million people. That is an afterthought to white westerners in regards to the 911 attacks that killed 2974 people. The western backlash in Iraq to 911 has killed at least 250,000 Iraqi civillians,
The truth is we associate loss with others that share our value systems and power structures. We have no objective ethics.
Re: The human race with its two hunter eyes pointed forwards and its fang teeth Nietzche summed it up: There are no moral phenomena at all, only a moral interpretation of phenomena... Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. ~Saint |
nahtoh
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 21:13:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: nahtoh Example death sentances or abortions...
Nonsense. Killing is unethical. That some nations allow it in some situations does not make it ethical, it only makes it legal.
Yea you do speak nonsense I agree...
You may consider it unethicial, does not mean others do.
I would expand on this but my examples would only make this a flamefest, so I won't. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Fivetide
Amarr Absolutely No Retreat
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 23:08:00 -
[88]
Its the future.. we were never ment to go so many generations, all those tards with peanut allergies or ...oh i cant eat anything with wheat .. will die ... well they should do ... its because they are weak... normally wars would have got rid of the pounces but we have to now have the share our world ... let them die,,,, if you ask me the strong become stronger as we desrtoy the weak ! Quote of the Month
your standing infront of 500 people and your the only one faceing the wrong way jimmy carr |
Whitehound
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 23:18:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Whitehound on 26/07/2009 23:18:59
Originally by: nahtoh Yea you do speak nonsense I agree...
You may consider it unethicial, does not mean others do.
I would expand on this but my examples would only make this a flamefest, so I won't.
Do not insult me when it is you who is dumb. We have one ethics and they are being watched over by the UNESCO. If your country is part of the UN then we both share the same ethics. If you like it or not or if your president likes it or not does not matter, but this is how it is. Do not declare that we all have different ethics when people are working hard every day so we can share the same ethics, and while all you do is to write a comment on the forum about how you think the world is like. --
|
nahtoh
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.07.26 23:36:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 26/07/2009 23:18:59
Originally by: nahtoh Yea you do speak nonsense I agree...
You may consider it unethicial, does not mean others do.
I would expand on this but my examples would only make this a flamefest, so I won't.
Do not insult me when it is you who is dumb. We have one ethics and they are being watched over by the UNESCO. If your country is part of the UN then we both share the same ethics. If you like it or not or if your president likes it or not does not matter, but this is how it is. Do not declare that we all have different ethics when people are working hard every day so we can share the same ethics, and while all you do is to write a comment on the forum about how you think the world is like.
Put the drugs away mehkay?
Ethics are not hard coded, they never have been and never will be, you can have prodessional ethics, personal ethics, socital ethics. What you may class a ethical response I may not and vise versa.
Do you consider the ROEs that UN peacekeeprs can be strangled with ethical? I generally don't (for example).
And BTW I am not American, where you are a total feckwit by the looks of things and don't think your nationalty has any bearing on that observation...
Once more for the hard of thinking (that would be you BTW), Both morals and ethics are human contsrutions that have changed over the ages and will hopefully continue to do so, unless control freak morons like you manage to stop this from happening!! ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |