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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 61 post(s) |
Gobbins
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
0
   |
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:23:00 -
[241] - Quote
another lonely friday for Jalebi |
Karl Planck
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
174
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:24:00 -
[242] - Quote
Merdaneth wrote:Karl Planck wrote:
1) We were banned just because we were easining burden of logistics
I'm sure there were many more sparring partners available that would have gladly joined your WH corp to easy the burden of their logistics. I guess you didn't want them? If your are very picky about your sparring partners, but do share almost everything with those selected sparring partners, you should really think again about your definitions of sparring partners and competitors.
I didn't write that btw
To all everyone concerned over the fairness involving the H/O disqualification
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113351&find=unread |
Hroya
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:26:00 -
[243] - Quote
Wouldnt be eve without drama, but geesh you're pushing it with this one.
Clearly some mistakes have been made in both giving information and implementing said information.
For a showcase like AT you could take a step back a bit and not let everyones personall feelings about metagaming and assorted shenannigans get in the way. And surely holding a grudge over last years AT final is ... a long grudge i tell you.
Like some one else said, devs etc arent robots, as players we are all humans and humans make mistakes. Grow up and admit a mistake and help solve the situation. That's what grown ups do.
Maybe you could settle on a middleground here. Let them compete at the AT, but let them only field 1 combined team or none.
You go your corridor but. |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
153
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:49:00 -
[244] - Quote
Kratisto wrote:
So Germany and Spain decide for the Euro final they want the score to be 8-9 in Spains favor. The Germans come in and score 8 goals with apparent ease, and then stand about as Spain then returns the favor. They spend the last 20 minutes shaking hands and congratulating themselves about how awesome they are to reach 1 and 2 and share the prize money 50/50.
The fans and everyone in the crowd, they should be happy right?
No, the fans shouldn't be happy. But, in AT9, that was within the rules. There's precedent regarding fall matches in the past, it just hadn't happened in the final so far.
Let's do another football analogy.
For the next world cup, FIFA rules that individual states are not allowed to enter the world cup.
England and Scotland, both being countries in the UK ask for clarification by contacting FIFA twice, without a response. Later, Scotland asks a lesser FIFA official if they're permitted to train together, as long as they enter as separate entities. They receive an okay.
England and Scotland fly to the same training camp. At the training camp, they practice together, occasionally swapping a player or two. The two teams share accomodations, eat together, play together and hang out after practice together.
Then comes the day to officially enter the draw for the world cup. Both England and Scotland are excited, until the point when the FIFA general states that England and Scotland are being banned from the world cup, as they are two individual states within the UK, and in the training camp acted as a single entity.
The thing is, everyone who knows football know that England and Scotland are separate entities as far as football is concerned. They have their own leagues, their own national teams, but due to what happened at the training camp, they are considered to be a single entity in the eyes of FIFA. |
Denarus Arran
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Executive Outcomes
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:58:00 -
[245] - Quote
Break the rules get banned. Next topic.
PEWPEWPEW |
Uggs
Imperial Technology
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 19:08:00 -
[246] - Quote
What I don't understand is, Hydra/0utbreak claim to have spent a ton of time preparing for the tournament, but apparently it was too much work to spend an extra 30 mins to set up a second pos to keep the 2 corps separate. I do think they should still be allowed one team though, but they could of easily had both in if they weren't dumb. |
gazarsgo
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 19:16:00 -
[247] - Quote
Kratisto wrote:What I find most amusing about this thread is Outbreak. and Hydra attempting to lawyer their way into the tournament. That works in civil courts with laws and rules, and accountability of judges.
What's funny is that they would lose. From Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the fundamentals of Western legal practice:
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. The principle cannot be explained b-â -òay-ûng that we are not only commanded to abstain from certain actsGÇÜ but also to f-ûnd out that we are commanded. For if there were such a second command, it is ver-â clear that the guilt of failing to obe-â it would bear no proportion to that of di-òobey-ûng the principal command if knownGÇÜ yet the fa-ûlure to know would receive the same punishment as the failure to obe-â the principal law. Public polic-â -òacr-ûfices the individual to the general good. It is desirable that the burden of all should be equalGÇÜ but -ût is still more desirable to put an end to robber-â and murder. For the most partGÇÜ the purpose of the cr-ûminal law is onl-â to induce external conformit-â to rule. Considering this purel-â external purpose of the law together with the fact that it is read-â to -òacr-ûfice the individual so far as necessary in order to accomplish that purposeGÇÜ we can see more read-ûl-â than before that the actual degree of personal guilt involved in an-â particular tran-ògress-ûon cannot be the only elementGÇÜ -ûf it is an element at all, in the liabilit-â incurred. It is found in the conception of the average man, the man of ordinar-â intelligence and rea-òonable prudence. L-ûability is said to arise out of such conduct as would be blameworthy in him. But he is an ideal beingGÇÜ represented by the jury when they are appealed to, and h-ûs conduct is an external or objective standard when applied to an-â given individual. That individual ma-â be morally without -òta-ûn, because he has less than ordinary intelligence or prudence. But he is required to have those qualities at his peril. If he has them, he will not, as a general rule, incur liability without blameworthiness."
TL;DR:
None of us read the laws on the books, but we abide by the law anyway because we know that certain conduct is not acceptable in society. Holmes suggests that those people who read the rules and ask questions about the interpretations of those rules are only trying to break those rules. Instead, the most morally praiseworthy individuals go about their business with no knowledge of the specifics of the law, but merely conform to how a reasonable person in society would behave. The implication of this theory is a principle deeply rooted in our legal system: mistake of law (i.e., misinterpreting the meaning of a law) is generally no excuse against guilt for breaking that law.
Hydra-Outbreak have committed such a mistake of law - they misinterpreted the meaning of the rule against B teams. In the real world, in almost all cases, a mistake of law still results in a conviction.
There are a number of exceptions against the general rule against mistake of law. The only relevant exception for Hydra-Outbreak is the reliance exception: If the individual has relied on an official interpretation of the law, then mistake of law can be a good defense against guilt. Importantly, "official interpretation" means something very specific in legal terminology. So, if I go to the district attorney and ask clarification on a law, and the district attorney (DA) gives me a piece of paper with his signature on it saying that my behavior is OK, and then I do the behavior that turns out to be illegal, I am still not off the hook. The DA's memo is not considered an official interpretation! Rather, an official interpretation must be published, in either a high court decision or a publicly-available publication by the agency in charge of enforcement. In the Hydra-Outbreak situation, the GM correspondence is not an official interpretation, since a random GM's petition response is more analogous to a DA's memo than to an official published opinion by an executive agency.
TL;DR of the TL;DR: Hydra-Outbreak were not reasonable in their reliance on a Senior GM's statement when Hydra-Outbreak knew or should have known that a Senior GM's statement was not endorsed by the tournament organizers. Even if they try to "lawyer" their way into the tournament, their argument would still lose.
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
154
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 19:28:00 -
[248] - Quote
Ah, but in real life there are also so many laws that no one can be expected to know them all. Many laws in existence also are severely outdated, or so broad that they can be interpreted to mean anything.
Many law enforcement officials, as well as prosecutors have also been known to abuse this fact in order to prosecute people for breaking an obscure law when they've wanted a conviction but was unable to convict for a more reasonable crime. |
Hroya
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 19:33:00 -
[249] - Quote
Sad thing is, without a mature compromise to the situation, afer the tournament the new champion will not recieve the praises they should get because the forums will be crowded with posts like:
"But the former champion and runner up were banned and they would have beaten you"
"The competition was less then last year"
"It was rigged"
etc etc
It's a shame really but i think that is what it will be like.
You go your corridor but. |
gazarsgo
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 19:34:00 -
[250] - Quote
Pallidum Treponema wrote:Ah, but in real life there are also so many laws that no one can be expected to know them all. Many laws in existence also are severely outdated, or so broad that they can be interpreted to mean anything.
Many law enforcement officials, as well as prosecutors have also been known to abuse this fact in order to prosecute people for breaking an obscure law when they've wanted a conviction but was unable to convict for a more reasonable crime.
And you raise an important point - the breadth of prosecutorial discretion. Since the Hydra-Outbreak ban does not offend any notion of fair play or substantial justice, CCP as the prosecutor and judge can do pretty much whatever they want. |
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:26:00 -
[251] - Quote
Sorry spacefriend, that wasn't a TL;DR |
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:30:00 -
[252] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:on the plus side, Garmon now can dedicate more time to losing Adrestias to brick squad
This is what i came here for
Ask me about Rengas-dar, HRDKX's Most recent, groundbreaking, game-changing, wormhole-collapsing research endeavour. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
729
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:49:00 -
[253] - Quote
MrWhitei God wrote:ScoRpS wrote:We had neither 0utbreak or Hydra on the roster. We didn't get picked and as such we never had either team a secured spot in the tournament. So technically no we didnt but our intentions were to field both teams. Thats alot of "We" for two separate entities
hahaha true. This is so obviously a big lie by the OP. Sorry I'm not buying it. Hydra is suddenly honorable and would never do anything underhanded?
Sorry but be proud of your history Hydra, don't try to act Innocent.
Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
729
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:52:00 -
[254] - Quote
Hroya wrote:Sad thing is, without a mature compromise to the situation, afer the tournament the new champion will not recieve the praises they should get because the forums will be crowded with posts like:
"But the former champion and runner up were banned and they would have beaten you"
"The competition was less then last year"
"It was rigged"
etc etc
It's a shame really but i think that is what it will be like.
But ti's on video, no one outside of Hydra is/or was looking forward to seeing them in the final. They lost and then the other team gave it to them. Which is in the spirit or eve, but to make it so obvious, it was a lazy rush job. And now they've done it again, at least from my point of view. And got caught.
Last year the two alliances fighting in the final were the same alliance. Everyone knew at the time, but we figured they would still give a good fight. And as there are only 64 spots, I hope Hydra gets back in, but as just themselves. No more. becuase they suck at rigging matches, totally un entertaining.
Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Makkz
Lamorei Prosapia Vexillum
1
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Posted - 2012.05.25 21:00:00 -
[255] - Quote
ATX will miss Hydra, but they got caught... blatantly. And now sing the forum tune of its not our fault.
No ones buying it, your leadership made a serious serious error, live with it.
As a note to the explanation... if committing fraud, you do not get a beat cop (gm in this case) who doesn't have a clue to validate what your doing. Specially when a judge (ccp) has already made it clear that your actions specifically in a previous case were unacceptable.
Many were actually shocked you weren't just banned from this year anyway because of last years final, and then you tried this anyway... bad call.
Hydra pvp = awesome sauce of the highest caliber.
Hydra leadership = arrogant slimy and in denial. |
Luis Graca
17
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Posted - 2012.05.25 21:09:00 -
[256] - Quote
wondering what will kil2 answer in ATX to the question "what do you this of this year tournament?" |
Peekabooy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2012.05.25 21:28:00 -
[257] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:wondering what will kil2 answer in ATX to the question "what do you this of this year tournament?"
Obviously all of the commentators are going to be forbidden to mention this situation in any shape or form. |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
155
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:50:00 -
[258] - Quote
Makkz wrote:No ones buying it, your leadership made a serious serious error, live with it.
Actually, if you read through this thread, you'll see that there are quite a few people who believe Hydra's story, or at the very least that Hydra's story is a plausible explanation given the circumstances and evidence that have so far been presented. |
JC Anderson
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
638
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:56:00 -
[259] - Quote
This is starting to remind me of the Aperture Harmonics wormhole exploits awhile back, and mainly the interaction between the GM's and Aperture prior to the whole situation blowing up in their faces. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
509
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:59:00 -
[260] - Quote
Actually.
If it all were as blatantly obvious as certain people / devs want it to look like then:
-Why do other people don't see the blatantly obvious.
-Why does it breath "damagecontrol" all over it that Devs even break EULA rules one sided.
-Why the attmepts to remove certain replies.
It all reeks like a cover up for a revenge action towards Hydra / Outbreak and we can't discuss about it because .....
CCP went from Rebel company to Rebel without a direction over the years.
|
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:59:00 -
[261] - Quote
Pallidum Treponema wrote:Actually, if you read through this thread, you'll see that there are quite a few people who believe Hydra's story, or at the very least that Hydra's story is a plausible explanation given the circumstances and evidence that have so far been presented.
There were a lot of people that bought into the story that Hydra was taking donations to purchase supercaps a year or two ago too. They're called, kindly, "suckers."
|
Willl Adama
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
187
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Posted - 2012.05.25 22:05:00 -
[262] - Quote
Oh well, I was tired of eve anyway
Hi |
Luis Graca
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:06:00 -
[263] - Quote
Willl Adama wrote:Oh well, I was tired of eve anyway
what no more vids? |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid
Iron Oxide.
170
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:12:00 -
[264] - Quote
Hroya wrote:
"But the former champion and runner up were banned and they would have beaten you"
Why shouldn't they get that? if PL had been kicked out last time don't you think that's what everyone would be saying about Hydra?
I'm not even a hydra fan in the slightest, I'm just a fan of EVE and this goes completely against it, especially when officials don't even admit their mistake and would rather make cu- erm.. pathetic forum jabs.
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
511
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:13:00 -
[265] - Quote
Don't you just love that Internal Affairs is only for ingame behaviour of Devs, GM's and other affiliated people but when it comes to forum moderation and such the whole thing gets evaluated by the same people who decided in the first place.
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Altaen
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:18:00 -
[266] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Time Funnel wrote:
If you are a competitor you are probably happy that the strongest 2-headed monster (swidt? (hydra) ) has been removed from the pool.
.
With the exception of darkside, who had to change their pants, I dont think anyone in the AT agrees with this decision. Then you probably don't want to win.
Or, maybe they want to win against the best. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:40:00 -
[267] - Quote
Altaen wrote:Time Funnel wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Time Funnel wrote:
If you are a competitor you are probably happy that the strongest 2-headed monster (swidt? (hydra) ) has been removed from the pool.
.
With the exception of darkside, who had to change their pants, I dont think anyone in the AT agrees with this decision. Then you probably don't want to win. Or, maybe they want to win against the best.
Test Alliance, Best Alliance
o7m8 |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:58:00 -
[268] - Quote
Oh and I love how everyone refers to the two independent alliances as "Hydra".
Outbreak is clearly the dominant force. |
Slutty Underwear
The Assassin's Creed
Zombie Ninja Space Bears
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:08:00 -
[269] - Quote
All I can say about this is "Poor Show CCP. Poor Show indeed".
To ban 3 Alliances for (Not proven) Meta-gaming in a game that is built on meta-gaming bad. But not only do you ban 3 Alliances for meta-gaming. You let one off (PL) for no good reason. All 4 of them should be in or all 4 should be out. It is very unfair for the rest that PL are in and the rest not. Your rule say no "Team B's". PL had 1 and you still let them in. Shame on you CCP. Shame. Hryda and Outbreak did not (1") have a "B Team". They had 2 "A Teams" practising. CCP you have mad a right HASH of this.
As a side note. I ******* hated the last match of last years Alliance Tournament. It ******* sucked ass to watch. But that is when I fully realised how this game is played. I Have no love for Hydra or Outbreak. I Do have a soft spot for PL. Don't know why. But I do. (Love shooting at their Tect Pos's in Black Rise). But to ban for bullshit reasons just so you can hope not to have the same repeated as last year is madness. Do you really think the Meta-game will not carry on? In fact, There is no way to really stop it. Do you really think "CFC" don't have a "Team B" or 2 in the Alliance Tournament? Do you really think PL don't have one hidden away? Hell take a look at this and tell me it is not imposable.
http://www.evenews24.com/2012/05/11/garths-trek-pay-to-win/
1" - But I maybe very wrong as I have no clue if they did or not
|
Karl Planck
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
178
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:30:00 -
[270] - Quote
Slutty Underwear wrote:All I can say about this is "Poor Show CCP. Poor Show indeed". To ban 3 Alliances for (Not proven) Meta-gaming in a game that is built on meta-gaming bad. But not only do you ban 3 Alliances for meta-gaming. You let one off (PL) for no good reason. All 4 of them should be in or all 4 should be out. It is very unfair for the rest that PL are in and the rest not. Your rule say no "Team B's". PL had 1 and you still let them in. Shame on you CCP. Shame. Hryda and Outbreak did not (1") have a "B Team". They had 2 "A Teams" practising. CCP you have mad a right HASH of this. As a side note. I ******* hated the last match of last years Alliance Tournament. It ******* sucked ass to watch. But that is when I fully realised how this game is played. I Have no love for Hydra or Outbreak. I Do have a soft spot for PL. Don't know why. But I do. (Love shooting at their Tect Pos's in Black Rise). But to ban for bullshit reasons just so you can hope not to have the same repeated as last year is madness. Do you really think the Meta-game will not carry on? In fact, There is no way to really stop it. Do you really think "CFC" don't have a "Team B" or 2 in the Alliance Tournament? Do you really think PL don't have one hidden away? Hell take a look at this and tell me it is not imposable. http://www.evenews24.com/2012/05/11/garths-trek-pay-to-win/1" - But I maybe very wrong as I have no clue if they did or not
read up on this thread fool, CCP is not at fualt
To all everyone concerned over the fairness involving the H/O disqualification
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113351&find=unread |
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