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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.29 16:15:00 -
[1]
I've done this proposal before... and a lot of people kinda made some good points and alot made a mess of things and many went off some place else.
So to make this simple and straight forward... I'm not interested in doing anything else... just simply this.
Coding wise it should be simple...
If your training a skill... say Warp Drive Operation V.
And you want to start training Jump Drive Operation I.
Your going to finish Warp Drive Operation V in 5 Hours but your unable to inject the Jump Drive skill due to the fact you don't meet the perquisites.
This forces you to train other skills and delays your planned training.
I propose that we be allowed to inject skills that can be trained so long as the prerequisites are met within the 24 hour skill queue period.
Now for that begging question of "what if you change your mind"
If you try to change your skill queue.... and you don't meet the prerequisite skills for injecting the skill to begin with... you lose the skill.
Much like implants.
This forces you to make careful choices... I'm sure some of you will cry over it.. but there is simply no way around the exploit.
CCP is not likely to allow free injection of skills because of the potential abuse factor... so please don't ask for it here.. make a seperate thread for it.
This is a compromise... a fair one at that.... and I'd be content with just this minor annoyance put to rest.
No more... No less.
Pros: One less pain in the ass to deal with. Cons: Honestly... the only one is if you inject a skill and change your mind and you end up out a good deal of ISK... well you only have yourself to blame. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.29 16:16:00 -
[2]
========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
De'Veldrin
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.07.29 16:58:00 -
[3]
Yes, please.
I am so tired of having to put in "filler" skills just so I can make sure I don't lose training time.
Frankly, the queue should have been this way in the first place. --Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Keitoshi Yamada
MJOCO Botanical Entheogenics Division Mjolnir Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.29 17:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Keitoshi Yamada on 29/07/2009 17:32:20 Supported
The proposed idea wouldn't be hard to implement at all.
Anyone that decides to whine about losing a skill just because they dropped the training of the prereq skill /needed/ to lose that skill.. "What did we learn here today?"
And if CCP thinks that the above would be an actual issue, then fine, make the skill turn back into a book, whatever.
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.07.29 18:23:00 -
[5]
supported
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check1234
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Posted - 2009.07.29 21:33:00 -
[6]
Too much work for something that will delay your goal by less than a day and occurs rarely. You will be training another useful skill during that time anyway.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:24:00 -
[7]
Supported. Allowing to train a skill when the prereq is in training and will be done within 24 hours is common sense.
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: check1234 Too much work for something that will delay your goal by less than a day and occurs rarely. You will be training another useful skill during that time anyway.
If your going to say why your not supporting it.. at least bother to put some effort into it.
To put it into terms your able to understand... the time you spend training that other skill... is time wasted when you could "legally" training the skill you wish to inject.
If you can't see that... then your obviously new to the game. If your not new... then give it some time... you will grow frustrated soon enough. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
check1234
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:56:00 -
[9]
Edited by: check1234 on 29/07/2009 23:56:25
Originally by: Drake Draconis
If your going to say why your not supporting it.. at least bother to put some effort into it.
To put it into terms your able to understand... the time you spend training that other skill... is time wasted when you could "legally" training the skill you wish to inject.
If you can't see that... then your obviously new to the game. If your not new... then give it some time... you will grow frustrated soon enough.
I did say that the time it would take to implement this is simply not worth it. I even provided two reasons. 1. This happens rarely and pushes back your skill completion by less than 24 hours. 2. Since you're training another skill during that time, you don't loose any training time. You might get to your current goal a few hours later, but you will get to your next goal a few hours faster. You don't waste any time at all.
This doesn't frustrate me at all, simply because it happens so rarely and doesn't matter anyway, as I said in my 2nd point. I understand your point and think it's a good idea, but it's not worth the time required to make it.
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Aethrwolf
Home for Wayward Gamers
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Posted - 2009.07.30 05:34:00 -
[10]
More balanced than the last time, not that it was bad before. Fully support losing the skill if you change your mind, though I would add a pop up warning if you are about to lose it. Otherwise we end up seeing "OMG I lost it" and "what happened to the skill I injected" threads every day. Absolutely everything is subjective. |
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Aethrwolf More balanced than the last time, not that it was bad before. Fully support losing the skill if you change your mind, though I would add a pop up warning if you are about to lose it. Otherwise we end up seeing "OMG I lost it" and "what happened to the skill I injected" threads every day.
Naturally.
:) ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
PRO TECH
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Posted - 2009.07.30 12:23:00 -
[12]
wouldn't it just be easier if you could inject any skill book as long as you had already injected the pre-request, this way you'd still be able to train your plan without being there to inject the skill book after all pre-request have been done. if you then try and train the skill without finishing the level needed on the pre-request you then get the warning saying other skills need finishing 1st unlessed there already in the training queue.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.30 14:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: PRO TECH wouldn't it just be easier if you could inject any skill book as long as you had already injected the pre-request, this way you'd still be able to train your plan without being there to inject the skill book after all pre-request have been done. if you then try and train the skill without finishing the level needed on the pre-request you then get the warning saying other skills need finishing 1st unlessed there already in the training queue.
Easier yes... rational no.
You'll be allowing pilots to inject skills sequentially without restraint.
There would be no more risk of forgetting to get that book... or transportation of skill books from "safer areas" to dangerous areas.
The only way it keeps it reasonably balanced is allowing pilots to inject the skill in question so long as you finish the preq within the 24 hour queue period of the window.... thus allowing you to train the skill you wish to train next.
If you don't finish training that skill.. the new skill is deleted.
I think it would also be fair to suggest that you could change your mind about the new skill but only if your going to finish training the preg regardless... in that case you just remove it and insert what you want to train.
All of which must happen within in the 24 hour window. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.07.30 14:47:00 -
[14]
i'm pretty sure you already raised this and it was voted for...
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My Blog |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.30 15:13:00 -
[15]
Yes... I believe I said that already. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.07.30 18:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Yes... I believe I said that already.
Yes, but if it's been raised to the CSM, you don't need to make another thread.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.30 19:29:00 -
[17]
I didn't know that it was... was gone for a period of time and didn't bother to check the boards... figured it fell to the bottom due to a lack of interest.
Even then.. this iteration is more refined and leaves the confusion of other peoples ideas out of it to keep it clear and concise.
What was the result of that discussion? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.30 20:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Drake Draconis I didn't know that it was... was gone for a period of time and didn't bother to check the boards... figured it fell to the bottom due to a lack of interest.
Even then.. this iteration is more refined and leaves the confusion of other peoples ideas out of it to keep it clear and concise.
What was the result of that discussion?
I know I'm throwing gas in the fire, but you posted a proposal about locking this forum to players who have less than 30 days of age on the basis they are posting stupid threads, and then you make a proposal that has already been brought to the CSM before, and even admit you didn't bother searching the forum before you did.
Humm...
---- Advanced combat probing guide: A clever use of the directional scanner |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.07.30 20:48:00 -
[19]
7/10 Flame
You made your point.. painfully clear... now move along please. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Sans Honore
Wirfadam Productions LTD
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Posted - 2009.07.30 20:52:00 -
[20]
Supported
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Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2009.08.11 01:06:00 -
[21]
I would like to raise two points about 'what happens if a player changes their mind?'
1. If you did allow the skill to turn back into a book if the player changes their mind then that means people can safely transport expensive skill books to 0.0 from empire without risk of loss. They can pickup the book in Jita, add it to their queue, clone jumpe back out to 0.0, "change their mind", sell it to a mate for a nice safe profit.
2. Use it or lose it approach. The idea that a player would lose the skill if they changed their mind is not a good one. There are enough little traps in the user interface that can and do affect players already. These little things really do spoil the player experience and CCP should be getting rid of 'traps', even if they have pop up warnings.
I would suggest rather than a player can inject ANY skill book regardless if they have the prereqs to use it. The check should be placed on actually training a skill. If the character does not have the pre-reqs the skill cannot be trained. This kind of check would work well with players losing skill points when they have forgotten to update their medical clones as well. It would mean that a player never loses a skill entirely, just lose levels in the skill.
Hope this makes sense.
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Syaran
IMPERIAL SENATE Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2009.08.11 08:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mik Nostrebor I would like to raise two points about 'what happens if a player changes their mind?'
1. If you did allow the skill to turn back into a book if the player changes their mind then that means people can safely transport expensive skill books to 0.0 from empire without risk of loss. They can pickup the book in Jita, add it to their queue, clone jumpe back out to 0.0, "change their mind", sell it to a mate for a nice safe profit.
2. Use it or lose it approach. The idea that a player would lose the skill if they changed their mind is not a good one. There are enough little traps in the user interface that can and do affect players already. These little things really do spoil the player experience and CCP should be getting rid of 'traps', even if they have pop up warnings.
I would suggest rather than a player can inject ANY skill book regardless if they have the prereqs to use it. The check should be placed on actually training a skill. If the character does not have the pre-reqs the skill cannot be trained. This kind of check would work well with players losing skill points when they have forgotten to update their medical clones as well. It would mean that a player never loses a skill entirely, just lose levels in the skill.
Hope this makes sense.
At that point skill books are nothing more then simple ISK sink, and a frustrating one at that...if you go as far as to let any character inject any skill you might as well give everyone all skills from the beginning just only allow them to train a skill if the prereq's are met.
I do support the OP's proposal though. It's really annoying if I have to leave a skill for the next day just because if I wait for the prereq to train I won't be able to sleep :P.
One single time it does not matter but over the course of an EVE career this can result in large wastes of time. In a training plan that runs for over 100 days, several of these choke points can prolong the training by even more. It takes enough time to train for stuff as it is.
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Fille Balle
Dissolution Of Eternity
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Posted - 2009.08.11 10:32:00 -
[23]
Hm, the last time someone proposed this, I didn't vote, because I'm not sure about this. I agree, it would be conveinient, but I have no idea if there could be... complications with it. Never the less, as no one came up with any real reasons to stop this the last time, and no one has come up with anything this time around either.
I guess I'll support.
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Kim Quasar
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Posted - 2009.08.11 11:58:00 -
[24]
Lame. completely lame.
How about this - you can que any skillbook, but it must be in your cargohold.
There.
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Bellum Eternus
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.11 13:28:00 -
[25]
Supported! Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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