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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:08:00 -
[61] - Quote
AT feels more like an EVE ship now.
All rigged.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 10:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Devore Sekk wrote:The tournament is not created and operated by CCP (at significant expense) for the benefit of the teams competing. It is a showcase to the EVE community and gaming community at large, and the AT9 finals were a complete farce, even if everything was technically within the rules. I expect CCP to take whatever steps necessary to create a competitive and fun event showcasing the technology of EVE and talented players' piloting abilities.
Wanting to showcase some of the best piloting and combat EVE has to offer Banning both Hydra and Outbreak, disallowing any/all of them from competing in any form
Pick one.
You can be disappointed with the finale if you like, but you can't deny those two alliances are some of the most talented pilots out there, and banning them all outright (rather than allowing them to pick one team / merge) makes the tournament suffer. As for wanting to showcase the EVE online universe and community in general... how can you NOT include some meta-gaming shenanigans? |
Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 12:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
Hydra and Outbreak,
this is becoming pathetic.
If you could learn something with The Mittani scandal and ban is that you should have done the same: MAN UP, own your mistake, apologise to the Eve community (in your case for trying to corner the Tournament again this year by colluding), step back and shut up.
After doing all that, The Mittani got the ban anyway, but next year he can come back to the CSM (if he wish to) and at this moment his record is clean, his conscience is clean, almost everyone is happy with is actions and the drama is over.
If you had done that already, maybe, just maybe, that last spot would have been given to one of you or a mix team, but no, you can't read in between the lines... wake up and learn how to play the "Game".
Continue on this path and next year the drama will not be about the ban but about the fact you might not even be allowed to enter. Please continue to insult CCP and their staff by making accusations, pointing fingers and soon, very soon, someone with power will get annoyed, will remove the F*** Y** hammer from the closet and will hit you both with it.
yes continue on this path... this will end well
One more time to see if this sticks in our brains: own your mistake, apologise, step back, shut up and wait. |
ScoRpS
0utbreak Outbreak.
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
We have stepped back.
In retrospect it was an excercise in futility from the moment the post was put up about our removal. The debate has run its course now and all that is left is to perhaps look forward to next years Tournament.
It's a big event that we all look forward to each year. No one "wants" to mess it up.
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Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:
If you could learn something with The Mittani scandal and ban is that you should have done the same: MAN UP, own your mistake, apologise to the Eve community (in your case for trying to corner the Tournament again this year by colluding), step back and shut up.
One more time to see if this sticks in our brains: own your mistake, apologise, step back, shut up and wait.
Slight difference there is that The Mittani broke a rule. Hydra and Outbreak it got assumed they were planning on breaking a rule without a shred of evidence this was actually going to be true. They got trailed and convicted on not breaking any rules in AT9 and assuming they would break a rule now. Does this mean that all Tier 3 battlecruisers who are fit the same way as they were fit for Boomerang tactics to get banned because it looks like they are going to break a rule?
Why wait or communicate. It looks suspicious so let's ban.
Proactive moderating at it's best. Damn all proof. Damn the fact that Hydra and Outbreak didn't break any rules. The mere fact I can concoct something vaguely discerning out of it is enough to doom them.
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Duncan Tanner
Genos Occidere
236
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:Hydra and Outbreak,
this is becoming pathetic.
Whoever is continuing to make posts about what happened is only representing themselves and I don't recognize them as alts of either Hydra or Outbreak.
I can speak for Hydra leadership at least and we've already said all we need to say on behalf of our alliance as of several days ago. I don't know how much of it has been deleted but it's all on eve-search anyway.
As far as the rest of your post, it seems you've been drinking the CCP cool aid. - |
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
Confirming I am not a Hydra or Outbreak alt. But that won't be believed anyways. But that is up to everone's own sense or vieuwing it.
I post on own merit and am in no way affiliated with any side but mine.
|
Spark's
Terra Hawks The Initiative.
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
I personally will take your bandwidth up. Thanks |
Tear Miner
Republic University Minmatar Republic
138
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
The scandals this year have been entertaining. Mitannigate first and now OBHydraGate :) |
NinjaTurtle
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
can anyone else not wait till ATX is over and we can go back to reading about this bull**** on en24 |
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Ltd SpacePig
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
Hydra and Outbreak cheated.. and they tried to do it again.. and this time got caught doing it.. and still people are mad at CCP for not having them in the Alliance Tournament? I mean.. Hydra & Outbreak are awesome pvp:ers.. they don't have to cheat to be good at this and win.. so why do it? The rules has been very clear and posted in good time.. and still these two alliance choose to cheat... this is what i don't get about this.. why??
Anyway.. would had been awesome to meet them in the tournament.. but i guess that have to wait until next year. This tournament wont be the same without these teams.. |
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
You know. I checked the rules over and over and I just can't find where they broke a rule. But that remains in the eye of the beholder.
Unless you can point out to me where people changing corp or even alliance on the testserver is also strictly forbidden. The I will appologise. P.S. I won't appologise ofcourse if that rule was added after these occurances.
|
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 22:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ltd SpacePig wrote:Hydra and Outbreak cheated.. and they tried to do it again.. and this time got caught doing it.. and still people are mad at CCP for not having them in the Alliance Tournament? I mean.. Hydra & Outbreak are awesome pvp:ers.. they don't have to cheat to be good at this and win.. so why do it? The rules has been very clear and posted in good time.. and still these two alliance choose to cheat... this is what i don't get about this.. why?? Anyway.. would had been awesome to meet them in the tournament.. but i guess that have to wait until next year. This tournament wont be the same without these teams..
They cheated again? At the very minimum, this was the first year that they cheated because nothing last year was against the rules. You ask why they would "cheat." Indeed, why would any group of experienced PvPers want to fight against another. I know, maybe they should have fought TEST with their shield tanked laser Megathron... comedy km ftw.
I want to see the eve-mail or chat log where Garmon says he is going to bend over for 0utbreak. I seriously doubt that CCP can produce those logs and the obvious conclusion is that they are still butt-hurt for last years poorly designed rules. |
Ltd SpacePig
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:20:00 -
[74] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
They cheated again? At the very minimum, this was the first year that they cheated because nothing last year was against the rules. You ask why they would "cheat." Indeed, why would any group of experienced PvPers want to fight against another. I know, maybe they should have fought TEST with their shield tanked laser Megathron... comedy km ftw.
I want to see the eve-mail or chat log where Garmon says he is going to bend over for 0utbreak. I seriously doubt that CCP can produce those logs and the obvious conclusion is that they are still butt-hurt for last years poorly designed rules.
So the final last year wasn't cheating? After the final last year everyone was on CCP ass to fix so it didn't happen again this year. So CCP changes some of the rules to make sure this doesn't happen again. They also decide to keep a very close eye on some of the teams from last year.. including Hydra and Outbreak because of their little stunt last year witch in many peoples eyes was cheating. Its very clear from the information in the devblog that Hydra and Outbreak where trying break the rules. CCP doesn't need to have any chat logs or evemails.. such a deal would have been done outside off the game.. in a TS room or a outside chat channel where CCP has no access anyway, so asking for such proof is just being stupid. CCP are watching what the teams are doing and from that information they will act.
The whole excuse about this being "we are so elite so we need to fight other super elite players" are pretty naive and lame. Again looking at the information that was in the devblog it shows that this wasn't just about "training" it was about other stuff to..and adding them together with the training gives a pretty clear picture on what was going on...
What is kind of making me lose abit of respect for these guys are that they after last years stunt made a public apology and so on.. said they where sorry and everything.. and then they go and do this.. and then when caught with their pants down they turn this into a circus and trying their best to blame everything on CCP.. its really lame.. and i'm surprised that anyone would want to defend what they done. |
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:40:00 -
[75] - Quote
No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
|
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1476
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 01:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
Cody Zamorah wrote:No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
What? "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ltd SpacePig wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:
They cheated again? At the very minimum, this was the first year that they cheated because nothing last year was against the rules. You ask why they would "cheat." Indeed, why would any group of experienced PvPers want to fight against another. I know, maybe they should have fought TEST with their shield tanked laser Megathron... comedy km ftw.
I want to see the eve-mail or chat log where Garmon says he is going to bend over for 0utbreak. I seriously doubt that CCP can produce those logs and the obvious conclusion is that they are still butt-hurt for last years poorly designed rules.
So the final last year wasn't cheating? After the final last year everyone was on CCP ass to fix so it didn't happen again this year. So CCP changes some of the rules to make sure this doesn't happen again. They also decide to keep a very close eye on some of the teams from last year.. including Hydra and Outbreak because of their little stunt last year witch in many peoples eyes was cheating. Its very clear from the information in the devblog that Hydra and Outbreak where trying break the rules. CCP doesn't need to have any chat logs or evemails.. such a deal would have been done outside off the game.. in a TS room or a outside chat channel where CCP has no access anyway, so asking for such proof is just being stupid. CCP are watching what the teams are doing and from that information they will act. The whole excuse about this being "we are so elite so we need to fight other super elite players" are pretty naive and lame. Again looking at the information that was in the devblog it shows that this wasn't just about "training" it was about other stuff to..and adding them together with the training gives a pretty clear picture on what was going on... What is kind of making me lose abit of respect for these guys are that they after last years stunt made a public apology and so on.. said they where sorry and everything.. and then they go and do this.. and then when caught with their pants down they turn this into a circus and trying their best to blame everything on CCP.. its really lame.. and i'm surprised that anyone would want to defend what they done.
That is correct, the final last year was not cheating. It was bad TV, but bad TV is only enough to get you in trouble the following year when vague rules allow :CCP: to ban you for entrapment.
You are also correct about TS rooms and outside channels. Contrary to what some blues have claimed, :CCP: is not psychic. They cannot know that people are plotting to collude unless those people are dumb enough to use the in game chat channels. It has already been stated that sparring is allowed so inferring that sparring is cheating is merely a pathetic excuse for mouth breathing forum trolls to revenge themselves upon their betters. These are the same trolls that respond with inanities like: "cool story bro" and other such idiocies. They contribute nothing and are below contempt.
As for your line about elite pvp, it is up to the individual team to decide who they want to spar against. They received permission from CCP and given the training practices of other alliances it was not an unreasonable request. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:44:00 -
[78] - Quote
They didn't get banned for entrapment, and they didn't get permission from CCP to do whatever the hell they felt like under the catch-all term "practise", simply sparring against other teams is entirely different from sharing logistics / theorycraft / SiSi corporation / intel / girlfriends
( even if the GM had approved all that, which he didn't, taking his word for it would be pretty dumb since he's not on the tournament team and like all GMs basically just tech support )
You are right about CCP basing their ban on guesswork and appearances, something anyone who actually read the rules should've expected and acted accordingly. (No firing off emails where you ask permission for a very limited part of what you're doing is not sufficient) |
michael boltonIII
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
198
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Cody Zamorah wrote:No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
What?
English isn't his first language, I like to look at all his posts as if he is the bizarre combination of a flowery poet and a recently unfrozen cave man. |
NinjaTurtle
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
gets his point across though. also,
Cody Zamorah wrote:CCP cheerleader squad pics |
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Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:They didn't get banned for entrapment, and they didn't get permission from CCP to do whatever the hell they felt like under the catch-all term "practise", simply sparring against other teams is entirely different from sharing logistics / theorycraft / SiSi corporation / intel / girlfriends
( even if the GM had approved all that, which he didn't, taking his word for it would be pretty dumb since he's not on the tournament team and like all GMs basically just tech support )
You are right about CCP basing their ban on guesswork and appearances, something anyone who actually read the rules should've expected and acted accordingly. (No firing off emails where you ask permission for a very limited part of what you're doing is not sufficient)
It is entirely unclear why one would think sharing logistics would be disqualifying. Large alliances, by definition, have more people and can assign more people to hauling and fitting ships and mods. If it is inappropriate to ease logistical burdens then you are implicitly biasing the tournament in favor of larger alliances.
Theorycraft and intel will be considered as the same thing for purposes of this discussion. The first point is that since sparring is allowed, no one disputes this, then one would obviously get kill mails from any ships destroyed. In addition to this, logs show which weapons do what damage and one can infer parts of the fit from the amount of damage being done to you relative to your native resits. Also, if you have fraps running and a decently setup overview, you can see the speed at which enemy ships are traveling and infer if they are using an AB, MWD, or even a Nano fit. You can learn a lot from sparring. Secondly, there is no way to monitor out of game communication. It is like banning steroids while having no way to test for them. Such a rule does not further the integrity of the tournament because it enables the least scrupulous to take advantage of it. Also, it has been specifically stated that one is allowed to spy on the Test server.
I don't know why anyone thinks joining the same corporation on SiSi has any relevance on anything. SiSi is like double internet spaceships. If EVE is real, then SiSi is that real thing playing a game of make believe.
Regarding the sharing of girlfriends, they are adults and are allowed to engage in whatever sexual practices they feel comfortable with. |
Chekxxx
Megaton Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 05:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cody Zamorah wrote:No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
This post is spot on. Getting the dev and fanboy treatment just proves that... |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 06:16:00 -
[83] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:They didn't get banned for entrapment, and they didn't get permission from CCP to do whatever the hell they felt like under the catch-all term "practise", simply sparring against other teams is entirely different from sharing logistics / theorycraft / SiSi corporation / intel / girlfriends
( even if the GM had approved all that, which he didn't, taking his word for it would be pretty dumb since he's not on the tournament team and like all GMs basically just tech support )
You are right about CCP basing their ban on guesswork and appearances, something anyone who actually read the rules should've expected and acted accordingly. (No firing off emails where you ask permission for a very limited part of what you're doing is not sufficient) It is entirely unclear why one would think sharing logistics would be disqualifying. Large alliances, by definition, have more people and can assign more people to hauling and fitting ships and mods. If it is inappropriate to ease logistical burdens then you are implicitly biasing the tournament in favor of larger alliances. Theorycraft and intel will be considered as the same thing for purposes of this discussion. The first point is that since sparring is allowed, no one disputes this, then one would obviously get kill mails from any ships destroyed. In addition to this, logs show which weapons do what damage and one can infer parts of the fit from the amount of damage being done to you relative to your native resits. Also, if you have fraps running and a decently setup overview, you can see the speed at which enemy ships are traveling and infer if they are using an AB, MWD, or even a Nano fit. You can learn a lot from sparring. Secondly, there is no way to monitor out of game communication. It is like banning steroids while having no way to test for them. Such a rule does not further the integrity of the tournament because it enables the least scrupulous to take advantage of it. Also, it has been specifically stated that one is allowed to spy on the Test server. I don't know why anyone thinks joining the same corporation on SiSi has any relevance on anything. SiSi is like double internet spaceships. If EVE is real, then SiSi is that real thing playing a game of make believe. Regarding the sharing of girlfriends, they are adults and are allowed to engage in whatever sexual practices they feel comfortable with.
They worked too closely together (or appeared to), more so than anyone else.
Personally I would've simply told them to stop working so closely together, but maybe CCP felt like they had already done so by introducing the rule in the first place and thought they deserved more than a slap on the wrist - maybe that's vindictive, petty or w/e, can't say I'll lose sleep over it.
( only thing that really bothers me about all this is that it's extremely lame and bad for the tournament itself not having a defending champion )
I wouldn't have banned either team since I don't think they were going to work together in the tourney itself, nor YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT since I'm reasonably sure they were working completely independently from PL.
But the people putting in the actual work and running things made a judgement call, as is their right. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 07:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:Hydra and Outbreak,
this is becoming pathetic.
If you could learn something with The Mittani scandal and ban is that you should have done the same: MAN UP, own your mistake, apologise to the Eve community (in your case for trying to corner the Tournament again this year by colluding), step back and shut up.
After doing all that, The Mittani got the ban anyway, but next year he can come back to the CSM (if he wish to) and at this moment his record is clean, his conscience is clean, almost everyone is happy with is actions and the drama is over.
If you had done that already, maybe, just maybe, that last spot would have been given to one of you or a mix team, but no, you can't read in between the lines... wake up and learn how to play the "Game".
Continue on this path and next year the drama will not be about the ban but about the fact you might not even be allowed to enter. Please continue to insult CCP and their staff by making accusations, pointing fingers and soon, very soon, someone with power will get annoyed, will remove the F*** Y** hammer from the closet and will hit you both with it.
yes continue on this path... this will end well
One more time to see if this sticks in our brains: own your mistake, apologise, step back, shut up and wait.
Whats all this bloody babbling about mittani, how is that situation even remotely similar? You may not have realised, but this thread is about the tournament and the champions of last year, not your manlove for mittani. And in that regard, what Hydra and Outbreak did was not a breach of the rules - in fact what they did was explicitly stated as being ok. It's not rocket science bro, it's just the bums running the tourny being buttsore and biased
|
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
114
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 08:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hydra/outbreak stull butthurt?
Pfft get over it, your ruined it last year and wont do it again this year.
Get what you deserve. Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:34:00 -
[86] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:Hydra/outbreak stull butthurt?
Pfft get over it, your ruined it last year and wont do it again this year.
Lmao at people claiming they "ruined it". I don't get this at all - hydra and outbreak were responsible for some of the best fights in the last tournament (just not the final, but the dozen other great matches more than make up for that, as far as I'm concerned).
Gibbo3771 wrote:Get what you deserve.
The new rules aren't - or shouldn't, at least - be about this kind of petty vengeance, it should be about doing whats best for the tournament. Outright banning the champions from last year, showing clear bias and unfair enforcement of rules, etc does not accomplish that. It's sad that not only players but even the people running the tourny don't seem to get this, and are just caught up in their own overreactions and rage |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
751
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 11:39:00 -
[87] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:[ Outright banning the champions from last year, showing clear bias and unfair enforcement of rules, etc does not accomplish that. It's sad that not only players but even the people running the tourny don't seem to get this, and are just caught up in their own overreactions and rage
Maybe if you understood the rules and their intent you would realize that they're not showing bias or unfair enforcement of the rules.
To be specific, B and C teams can be disqualified, and if the offense is bad enough, even the A team can be disqualified, and finally, colluding is an offense thats outright bannable.
The other groups that had teams that could be seen as potential 'b' teams had those teams removed. Their 'A' teams were allowed to continue unmolested as per the rules
The team that asked if it could test against itself, then later all joined one corp was banned for colluding, mainly because that is exactly what they were doing, colluding (you cannot argue that everybody joining one corp is anything but colluding as there isn't any real separation in the teams at that point).
I tried to do this without being insulting in anyway (a feat of strength for me) because there seems to be a lot of misconceptions about what rules were broken by who and how they were enforced.
We can understand that it might **** you off that you dont get to watch them compete, but you're mad at the wrong people, they knew full well what they were doing when they did what they did, and they knew the possible outcome.
They just didn't care.
|
Duncan Tanner
Genos Occidere
245
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 13:59:00 -
[88] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:The team that asked if it could test against itself, then later all joined one corp was banned for colluding, mainly because that is exactly what they were doing, colluding (you cannot argue that everybody joining one corp is anything but colluding as there isn't any real separation in the teams at that point).
I think there is a misconception here that joining one corp due to wormhole logistics and POS mechanics is a very different thing than being in two corps in a single wormhole testing against each other.
The perceived boundary of being in separate corporations on the test server is completely artificial when you consider that two groups that test exclusively against each other will know and understand every setup used against them anyway. Being in separate corporations does not factor into or affect this at all.
If we in any way thought what we were doing was wrong or if we were trying to hide it I very much doubt we would've acted in a way that so many people see as "a clear breach of the rules." - |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
41
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Posted - 2012.06.01 18:34:00 -
[89] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:[ Outright banning the champions from last year, showing clear bias and unfair enforcement of rules, etc does not accomplish that. It's sad that not only players but even the people running the tourny don't seem to get this, and are just caught up in their own overreactions and rage Maybe if you understood the rules and their intent you would realize that they're not showing bias or unfair enforcement of the rules. To be specific, B and C teams can be disqualified, and if the offense is bad enough, even the A team can be disqualified, and finally, colluding is an offense thats outright bannable. The other groups that had teams that could be seen as potential 'b' teams had those teams removed. Their 'A' teams were allowed to continue unmolested as per the rules The team that asked if it could test against itself, then later all joined one corp was banned for colluding, mainly because that is exactly what they were doing, colluding (you cannot argue that everybody joining one corp is anything but colluding as there isn't any real separation in the teams at that point). I tried to do this without being insulting in anyway (a feat of strength for me) because there seems to be a lot of misconceptions about what rules were broken by who and how they were enforced. We can understand that it might **** you off that you dont get to watch them compete, but you're mad at the wrong people, they knew full well what they were doing when they did what they did, and they knew the possible outcome. They just didn't care.
I fully understand the rules and intent. The bloody point is that their actions on the test server don't warrant banning both teams at all - thats why it reeks of bias to me. They were explicitly told they could train with each other, share fits, tactics, etc. Being in one corp on the test server means absolutely nothing.
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
751
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Posted - 2012.06.01 18:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote: They were explicitly told they could train with each other, share fits, tactics, etc. Being in one corp on the test server means absolutely nothing.
No they weren't, they were told they could test against one another, but warned to be careful of the colluding rule, they were NEVER told they could share fits and tactics at all.
Re read the GM response, the go ahead was given simply to test against one another, not to join the same corp, not to share fits, not to share tactics, that is an absolute fabrication. |
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