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Captain Hellfest
The Elysian Horde Elysian Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.05.26 20:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
So i was looking at this thing today and it says it gives you 15% bonus to resist to the dmg type you are taking. A T1 ENAM gives you 14% resist across the board, costs less to fit, and dosent require any cap to use. Am i reading something wrong here? Sorry im not at a pc where i check it atm but correct me if im wrong. |
Alara IonStorm
2279
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Posted - 2012.05.26 20:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
The resists on this hardener adapt as you take damage. If you get hit an Explosive Missile the Thermal, Kinetic and Electromagnetic defenses of the hardener decrease and the Explosive Defenses increase.
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Captain Hellfest
The Elysian Horde Elysian Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.05.26 20:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes but it increases to what % |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.05.26 20:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Using this module on ships with bonuses to armour repair should be interesting. I haven't had alot of time to focus on these new modules, but I've been in on many conversations with pilots who have figured out ways to the reactive hardner.
How quickly does this module switch resist to comp for incoming damage? Is it instant or does it take some time? A few pilots i know are thinking about using this module on a dominix, hyperion, huricane, Vagabond, myrmidon, stabber fleet, eos and Astarte. |
Cyc Lilith
AREA 43 Sev3rance
0
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Posted - 2012.05.26 20:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cycletime ist 10 sec (overloaded 8.5 sec) it adapts around 1% each cycle. I#m a bit disappointed because each time the modul was inactive the resists reseting and the Capusage of 42 GJ make it hard to keep it permanet running with ships smaller then BS, special when u get neuted - diferent to an Invul u cant just switch it when u get primaried an deactivate it afterwards till the next time - this modul have to run all the time or its just worse than a EANM - anyway, as long as there is no T2 version i would always prefer a ENAM II, in addition the EANM benefits from the compensationsksills, the reactive hardener not. |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.05.26 21:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cyc Lilith wrote:Cycletime ist 10 sec (overloaded 8.5 sec) it adapts around 1% each cycle. I#m a bit disappointed because each time the modul was inactive the resists reseting and the Capusage of 42 GJ make it hard to keep it permanet running with ships smaller then BS, special when u get neuted - diferent to an Invul u cant just switch it when u get primaried an deactivate it afterwards till the next time - this modul have to run all the time or its just worse than a EANM - anyway, as long as there is no T2 version i would always prefer a ENAM II, in addition the EANM benefits from the compensationsksills, the reactive hardener not.
Thanks! Good to know. Someone just told me something similar on coms. The time it takes to adapt to different incoming damage is a serious issue. Seems like a module someone would dual with or something. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2012.05.26 21:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cyc Lilith wrote:the Capusage of 42 GJ make it hard to keep it permanet running with ships smaller then BS
Sacrilege. Even with dual rep fit.
But since it takes a lot of time to adapt to incoming damage it's not as good as I hoped. |
Captain Hellfest
The Elysian Horde Elysian Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.05.26 23:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
So completely useless for sleepers. Thanks good to know |
Liam Mirren
520
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Posted - 2012.05.26 23:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Captain Hellfest wrote:So completely useless for sleepers. Thanks good to know
Its only use is for lazy mission runners who agree to having a mediocre fit.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Cyc Lilith
AREA 43 Sev3rance
1
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Posted - 2012.05.27 03:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Cyc Lilith wrote:the Capusage of 42 GJ make it hard to keep it permanet running with ships smaller then BS Sacrilege. Even with dual rep fit. But since it takes a lot of time to adapt to incoming damage it's not as good as I hoped.
i meant special in PvP when ur not often have capstable ships or get neuted. |
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Boomhaur
74
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Posted - 2012.05.27 04:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:Captain Hellfest wrote:So completely useless for sleepers. Thanks good to know Its only use is for lazy mission runners who agree to having a mediocre fit.
I am not even sure if it is worth it for mission runners, even I find it too slow if it changes it's resists as slow as the person above posted. I'd rather take a EANM II over this any day of the week, gives me my resists and armor compensation works for it and doesn't take cap. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
265
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Posted - 2012.05.27 05:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:Captain Hellfest wrote:So completely useless for sleepers. Thanks good to know Its only use is for lazy mission runners who agree to having a mediocre fit. Uh no, because for any mission you'll just fit damage specific hardeners.
This is a PVP module only. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. (Link was wrong, now fixed) |
Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
14
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Posted - 2012.05.27 06:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
This is a terrible PvP module, FYI
It's to fill the gaps in your "omnitank" mission boat.
It starts 15s across the board. When you take armor damage, it starts adapting. Any amount of damage will make it shift. So if you take 99% Therm and 1% EM, it will shift to 30/30. If you take 98/1/1 then it will shift to 20/20/20. Only if you take pure damage, will it shift to 60% vs that flavor.
60% is better than a specific hardener, but that's only if you're taking pure damage.
Another fatal flaw (particularly in PvP), aside from the 2-2.5min it takes to finish adapting... is that once it's adapted, it won't shift anymore. Once it's moved all that resist, the opponent could take advantage of the unresisted flavors.
So a smart PvP'er will shoot you with a pure flavor for 3min, and then swap ammo to shoot through the other 3 gaping holes.
I foresee Proj and missiles becoming even more popular. |
Liam Mirren
520
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Posted - 2012.05.27 07:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Liam Mirren wrote:Captain Hellfest wrote:So completely useless for sleepers. Thanks good to know Its only use is for lazy mission runners who agree to having a mediocre fit. Uh no, because for any mission you'll just fit damage specific hardeners. This is a PVP module only.
As said, LAZY mission runners who agree to being shitfit because it means they don't have to think about what they're doing (there's many of those). And it's ZERO use in pvp as it reacts way too slowly. The module makes no sense whatsoever.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Emperor Ryan
The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated
12
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Posted - 2012.05.27 13:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Marcus Gideon wrote:This is a terrible PvP module, FYI
It's to fill the gaps in your "omnitank" mission boat.
It starts 15s across the board. When you take armor damage, it starts adapting. Any amount of damage will make it shift. So if you take 99% Therm and 1% EM, it will shift to 30/30. If you take 98/1/1 then it will shift to 20/20/20. Only if you take pure damage, will it shift to 60% vs that flavor.
60% is better than a specific hardener, but that's only if you're taking pure damage.
Another fatal flaw (particularly in PvP), aside from the 2-2.5min it takes to finish adapting... is that once it's adapted, it won't shift anymore. Once it's moved all that resist, the opponent could take advantage of the unresisted flavors.
So a smart PvP'er will shoot you with a pure flavor for 2min, and then swap ammo to shoot through the other 3 gaping holes.
I foresee Proj and missiles becoming even more popular.
Clearly you have not used the module, Or you would know that despite being a terrible item all you have to do is turn it off and then on again and even if fully shifted at 60% it will reset to 15 to all. also once it's adapted if different damage types start coming in it will start shifting towards it,
the mod needs to be refined though to see a proper purpose.
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
63
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Posted - 2012.05.27 14:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cyc Lilith wrote:i meant special in PvP when ur not often have capstable ships or get neuted.
If you try to be capstable in pvp you're doing it wrong. If you get neuted all, I repeat all, active tanks shut down. Actually only modules that can be permarun under neuts are OP projectiles/missiles.
Liam Mirren wrote:As said, LAZY mission runners who agree to being shitfit because it means they don't have to think about what they're doing (there's many of those).
Why is omnitank on Ishtar or any T2 pve-capable ship a "shitfit"? |
Lili Lu
238
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yes, it appears that this module is pre-nerfed ****, while the cap booster fueled shield booster is probably at the other end of the spectrum.
It appears CCP got these things wrong. The adaptive hardener would have made more sense as a shield mod and the cap booster fueled booster would have been better a an armor repper. But oh well, we will be stuck with their present iterations for a few years it seems.
Looking forward to 2018 |
Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
15
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Emperor Ryan wrote:Marcus Gideon wrote:...Another fatal flaw (particularly in PvP), aside from the 2-2.5min it takes to finish adapting... is that once it's adapted, it won't shift anymore. Once it's moved all that resist, the opponent could take advantage of the unresisted flavors.
So a smart PvP'er will shoot you with a pure flavor for 2min, and then swap ammo to shoot through the other 3 gaping holes.
I foresee Proj and missiles becoming even more popular. Clearly you have not used the module, Or you would know that despite being a terrible item all you have to do is turn it off and then on again and even if fully shifted at 60% it will reset to 15 to all. also once it's adapted if different damage types start coming in it will start shifting towards it, the mod needs to be refined though to see a proper purpose. I have tested the module quite thoroughly.
Yes, you can turn it off and back on again, to reset it.
Then you have 2 1/2 minutes to wait for it to adapt again.
We'll pretend your fight lasts longer than 5min (having adapted twice already)...
Your opponent takes 10sec to switch ammo to something unresisted. You take 2 1/2 minutes to adapt each time.
And... the module doesn't continue to adapt once it's done. Testing under direct EM damage (Radio ammo), followed by mixed damage, the module remained at 60 EM until reset. |
PavlikX
Shadows of the Day
3
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Posted - 2012.05.27 15:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Looks like entire idea about this module was right, meanttime final result... oh well, i hope CCp will fix itand implement T2 and meta versions asap |
Liam Mirren
520
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Posted - 2012.05.27 17:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Liam Mirren wrote:As said, LAZY mission runners who agree to being shitfit because it means they don't have to think about what they're doing (there's many of those). Why is omnitank on Ishtar or any T2 pve-capable ship a "shitfit"?
Compared to specific fits you need to use more slots to get the same result. With a specific fit you could have used that freed up slot/rig for more dps.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
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Cyc Lilith
AREA 43 Sev3rance
2
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Posted - 2012.05.27 19:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Cyc Lilith wrote:i meant special in PvP when ur not often have capstable ships or get neuted. If you try to be capstable in pvp you're doing it wrong.
U'r trolling me, right?
I wrote, "not often". There are some special PvP-fits that are capstable(some buffertanks or Carrier etc) :P - But my mainpoint was being neutralized. |
Helion Dhamphir
Muj Mining Corp.
6
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Posted - 2012.05.27 23:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Didn't read all the posts so i'm not sure if this has been answered..
I just threw this module on a rupture for testing.
First of all, it is possible to run it while being cap stable, with active tank, AB and webber aswell..
Anyhow, as we all know it starts out with 15% resists across the board. it then shifts by 1% per cycle depending on incoming damage.
for reference: em/therm/kin/exp
If you're getting hit equally bt all types, resist will be 15/15/15/15
if you're against say, Gurista, resists will be 0/30/30/0
if you're against a drake shooting Scourge missiles your resistance will be 0/60/0/0
My conclusion is that, while it offers 30% more resistance (optimally) than an EANM II, the time required to obtain the full effect just makes it a bit useless for most situations.. |
Tankn00blicus
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Skeleton Crew
6
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Posted - 2012.05.27 23:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Helion Dhamphir wrote:My conclusion is that, while it offers 30% more resistance (optimally) than an EANM II, the time required to obtain the full effect just makes it a bit useless for most situations.. The fact that it doesn't take the proportions of each damage type you're receiving into account, only whether you're receiving that type of damage at all, makes it even more useless (i.e. if the damage you're receiving is 99% EM and 1% thermal you will get 30/30 EM/therm resists instead of 59.4/0.06). Pre-nerfed garbage. |
Mastin Dragonfly
No Point of Dispute Point of Dispute
5
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Posted - 2012.05.28 11:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tankn00blicus wrote:The fact that it doesn't take the proportions of each damage type you're receiving into account, only whether you're receiving that type of damage at all, makes it even more useless (i.e. if the damage you're receiving is 99% EM and 1% thermal you will get 30/30 EM/therm resists instead of 59.4/0.06). Pre-nerfed garbage.
Some missinformation in this thread so far... First the above is NOT true, I've had mine shift to 32 em 28 therm when fighting Bloodraiders/Sansha, also had it divided unequally over 3 or 4 resists when fighting mercenaries for instance, it's not fixed to even parts. Also it does not get stuck once it reaches a certain division, when doing missions with different enemies like dread pirate scarlet it adjusts just fine without turning it off.
It does take too long to adjust though, I agree on that. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
140
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Posted - 2012.05.28 12:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mastin Dragonfly wrote:Tankn00blicus wrote:The fact that it doesn't take the proportions of each damage type you're receiving into account, only whether you're receiving that type of damage at all, makes it even more useless (i.e. if the damage you're receiving is 99% EM and 1% thermal you will get 30/30 EM/therm resists instead of 59.4/0.06). Pre-nerfed garbage. Some missinformation in this thread so far... First the above is NOT true, I've had mine shift to 32 em 28 therm when fighting Bloodraiders/Sansha, also had it divided unequally over 3 or 4 resists when fighting mercenaries for instance, it's not fixed to even parts. Also it does not get stuck once it reaches a certain division, when doing missions with different enemies like dread pirate scarlet it adjusts just fine without turning it off. It does take too long to adjust though, I agree on that.
No, ive tested it, he is correct.
Shooting PP at a ship (5:1 therm:kin damage ratio) causes it to shift to 0/30/30/0 |
Mastin Dragonfly
No Point of Dispute Point of Dispute
5
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Posted - 2012.05.28 13:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Not the most convincing but the first one I got:
Enemies Abound 3/5 2nd room |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
12
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Posted - 2012.05.28 14:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
I think this module has good potential, but in current state is bit "meh"
- It is comparable to T1 EANM, but is overshadowed by T2 EANM
- It adapts way too slow to have any meaningful use in PvP.
- It adaptation formula is too simple to adapt it correctly. As per CCP Tuxford they are not completely happy with it, but apparently did not find enough time to update it.
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Tankn00blicus
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Skeleton Crew
6
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Posted - 2012.05.28 16:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mastin Dragonfly wrote:Tankn00blicus wrote:The fact that it doesn't take the proportions of each damage type you're receiving into account, only whether you're receiving that type of damage at all, makes it even more useless (i.e. if the damage you're receiving is 99% EM and 1% thermal you will get 30/30 EM/therm resists instead of 59.4/0.06). Pre-nerfed garbage. Some missinformation in this thread so far... First the above is NOT true, I've had mine shift to 32 em 28 therm when fighting Bloodraiders/Sansha, also had it divided unequally over 3 or 4 resists when fighting mercenaries for instance, it's not fixed to even parts. Also it does not get stuck once it reaches a certain division, when doing missions with different enemies like dread pirate scarlet it adjusts just fine without turning it off. I've tested it. Also, your screenshots don't really prove anything, as they're at about 30/30; as for adjusting to other damage types, likely what happened was you weren't receiving the damage type for several cycles, and then began to.
If you want to see for yourself, get on Sisi along with an alt/friend, have one ship fit a reactive armor hardener, and the other ship fit 8 smartbombs, 2 of each damage type, and try them out. With 2 EM and 1 thermal smartbomb going you will get 30/30 EM/therm resists. |
Nicholas Tong
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.05.31 22:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Looks good for prolonged combat, hulls which can absorb a huge amount of attacks (Carriers, Dreads, Titans. Tanked Domis?) Also the resistance adaptation speeds up accordingly to the enemies firing speed ( brawlers will have setbacks) These might have been intended, just my 2 cents. |
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2012.06.01 01:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tankn00blicus wrote:Helion Dhamphir wrote:My conclusion is that, while it offers 30% more resistance (optimally) than an EANM II, the time required to obtain the full effect just makes it a bit useless for most situations.. The fact that it doesn't take the proportions of each damage type you're receiving into account, only whether you're receiving that type of damage at all, makes it even more useless (i.e. if the damage you're receiving is 99% EM and 1% thermal you will get 30/30 EM/therm resists instead of 59.4/0.06). Pre-nerfed garbage.
This is a lie. I've watched the module myself work correctly with my bait ships. I will always fit one of these to my bait ships for now on as well, I noticed substantially increased survival. |
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