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henry potter
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Posted - 2009.08.05 23:17:00 -
[1]
Saw this mentioned in another thread, and thought it deserves it's own. Why is it that invented BPCs need to have the horrible default ME/PE of -4/-4 ?
0/0 seems like a much better default.
-4/-4 feels like some sort of outdates holdover from the immediate-post-lottery days. For many modules, it doesn't really make a lot of difference, but it would make inventing smaller ships a lot more palatable.
The only reason I can see for -4/-4 is to protect T2 BPO owners who are selling on the market, and all the arguments seem to have been that there is an insignificant amount of that going on anywhow...
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.08.06 02:26:00 -
[2]
It's fine as it is. Invention should be worse than BPOs.
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henry potter
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Posted - 2009.08.06 03:32:00 -
[3]
Why?
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Allen Ramses
Caldari Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.06 03:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: henry potter Why?
Invention is an in-depth and critical analysis of existing T1/modified modules and prints. The result is a working product, but it's not as efficient as the license holder. It requires more resources and manufacturing time to come up with the generic form of the official Tech 2 module.
In short, look at trade secrets. That's why. ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.06 13:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto It's fine as it is. Invention should be worse than BPOs.
This. --Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:37:00 -
[6]
I have a feeling everyone that say it is fine as it is either have T2 BPOs or are part of an alliance with r64 moons.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.06 16:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I have a feeling everyone that say it is fine as it is either have T2 BPOs or are part of an alliance with r64 moons.
And you'd be wrong. --Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.08.06 16:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I have a feeling everyone that say it is fine as it is either have T2 BPOs or are part of an alliance with r64 moons.
My corp is not in an alliance, we own no x64 moons, and we own no T2 BPOs. In fact, I am myself a pretty serious inventor - I have three characters dedicated full-time to an invention business, and will be starting up a fourth next week. And I still oppose this change. It doesn't make sense.
Furthermore, why would I assume it would help me? If stuff becomes cheaper to make, it'll just drop the selling price, and make it easier for new people to get into my markets besides. The buyer will see the gains from this change, not the inventor.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.08.10 03:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: henry potter Saw this mentioned in another thread, and thought it deserves it's own. Why is it that invented BPCs need to have the horrible default ME/PE of -4/-4 ?
0/0 seems like a much better default.
-4/-4 feels like some sort of outdates holdover from the immediate-post-lottery days. For many modules, it doesn't really make a lot of difference, but it would make inventing smaller ships a lot more palatable.
The only reason I can see for -4/-4 is to protect T2 BPO owners who are selling on the market, and all the arguments seem to have been that there is an insignificant amount of that going on anywhow...
You want this to increase profits? Yes?
Okay, so lets say it costs you, with invention, 15,000 ISK to make "Module X", which you then sell for 20,000 ISK. T2 BPO makes the same item for 8,000 ISK, which then sells for 20,000 ISK.
Take note, it also costs other inventors that same amount of ISK to make "Module X", and that is their baseline for determining their sell price.
Your profit: 5,000 ISK T2 BPO profit: 12,000 ISK
CCP boosts BPC's to 0/0
Module X now costs you 13,000 ISK to make, you sell for 20,000 ISK T2 Competitor Inventor #1 comes in and undercuts you to 19,000 ISK T2 Competitor Inventor #2 comes in and undercuts both of you to 18,000 ISK Market stablizes at 5,000 ISK profit per unit.
Net result: You make just as much ISK as before, and it costs less for people to enter your market. Buyers win, everyone else loses.
Remember, the profit margins with invention when T2 first came out were awesomesauce. For a while you were able to make more ISK than god, however, as more inventors got into the market they started undercutting each other and brought down the profit margins.
With that said, if CCP made T2 Invention BPC's with ZERO material costs so that they were free, and only required a slot to produce, pretty soon you would see people paying other players to take their produced wares off their hands.
WTS "Module X" -(10,000) ISK!!!
Heres a quick example:
I produce T2 Items, R64 moon situation drastically increases my costs, but they increase the costs for everybody else too. If R64 moons were more plentiful, it would reduce my production costs significantly.
And everybody elses too, so the profitability would stay the same pretty much.
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Carniflex
Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.08.10 08:00:00 -
[10]
In some phases dev's have hinted that they want to make source BPC ME/PE level to "modulate" output. They did not do it at first iteration to see how invention works out.
I think it would make sense to implement it.
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