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Mr Spot
I Blame Chum
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Posted - 2009.08.07 06:09:00 -
[1]
The new COSMOS system will provide out-of-game access to ingame mail, contacts and chat functions. As detailed in this post, I believe CCP should not make up their own API to access these functions, but rather should use SMTP/IMAP for mail access and XMPP (Jabber) for contacts and chat.
Re-using SMTP/IMAP/XMPP means that community developers do not need to waste development time writing new mail and chat programs to access this EVE-related content. Every platform that can run EVE already has access to clients for these protocols. Many phones and other internet devices also have compatible clients either pre-installed, or readily available for download. This is much better than having N EVE players write N clients for N platforms.
SMTP/IMAP means we can use the out-of-game mail tools that are vastly superior to what we currently have. Isk spammers could be prevented from abusing this system by rate-limiting access from trial accounts, or by only allowing mail that would not attract a CSPA charge via the SMTP service. Client-side filters and spam blockers may make isk spam via mail even less attractive than it is now. Security-conscious/paranoid players may even choose to use the OpenPGP or S/MIME support in their mail clients if they feel it is necessary.
XMPP would not only allow out-of-game chat and contact list functions, but could also be bridged to in-game chat with the use of a transport. Naturally, this transport would not allow access to the three location-dependent system chat channels since an out-of-game client has no location in the EVE universe. It would open many new possibilities, from allowing small groups of friends to talk to each other even if they aren't all playing at the same time, to large alliances announcing emergency ops to their members who may be available, but just not logged into EVE at the time.
Both of these systems can be implemented as a "walled garden", which prevents interaction with out-of-game implementations of these same systems. This means that out-of-game spam, both incoming and outgoing, would not be an issue.
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Aeron Sophus
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Posted - 2009.08.07 07:38:00 -
[2]
Very much supported.
Altho the Google Wave Federation Protocol would be better.
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Mr Spot
I Blame Chum
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Posted - 2009.08.07 07:58:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Aeron Sophus Altho the Google Wave Federation Protocol would be better.
Yeah, Wave looks like it will be pretty nice, and someone suggested it in the same dev blog comments thread. But I didn't suggest it because I don't think it has been released/declared production ready yet. Then again, it might be by the time COSMOS gets released.
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Aeron Sophus
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:37:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Aeron Sophus on 07/08/2009 08:39:27
Originally by: Mr Spot
Originally by: Aeron Sophus Altho the Google Wave Federation Protocol would be better.
Yeah, Wave looks like it will be pretty nice, and someone suggested it in the same dev blog comments thread. But I didn't suggest it because I don't think it has been released/declared production ready yet. Then again, it might be by the time COSMOS gets released.
The protocol itself is fully documented and only needs to be implemented.
Edit: Actually: http://evajobse.net/csmwiki/index.php/External_mail_client_support
This appears to already exist, but needs vast improvements.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:40:00 -
[5]
Quote: SMTP/IMAP means we can use the out-of-game mail tools that are vastly superior to what we currently have. Isk spammers could be prevented from abusing this system by rate-limiting access from trial accounts, or by only allowing mail that would not attract a CSPA charge via the SMTP service. Client-side filters and spam blockers may make isk spam via mail even less attractive than it is now. Security-conscious/paranoid players may even choose to use the OpenPGP or S/MIME support in their mail clients if they feel it is necessary.
1. It breaks immersion 2. Email clients are stupidly over-complex for this purpose 3. They would have to implement the SMTP stack on top of TQ either way. And SMTP isn't a simple protocol.
Quote: XMPP would not only allow out-of-game chat and contact list functions, but could also be bridged to in-game chat with the use of a transport. Naturally, this transport would not allow access to the three location-dependent system chat channels since an out-of-game client has no location in the EVE universe. It would open many new possibilities, from allowing small groups of friends to talk to each other even if they aren't all playing at the same time, to large alliances announcing emergency ops to their members who may be available, but just not logged into EVE at the time.
The chat-system already uses an IRC-like protocol. So nay.
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Aeron Sophus
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Aeron Sophus on 07/08/2009 09:11:09
Originally by: LaVista Vista
1. It breaks immersion 2. Email clients are stupidly over-complex for this purpose 3. They would have to implement the SMTP stack on top of TQ either way. And SMTP isn't a simple protocol.
1. Which whatever CCP is implementing with COSMOS already does, so that's a moot point. 2. An email client is only complex if coded to be complex, obviously CCP would provide it's own EVEmail Client with COSMOS, so that's also a moot point. 3. Not to argue semantics, but SMTP itself is by definition simple, the only thing complex about SMTP are it's various extensions, most used to prevent spam, since this would be a closed system not directly linked to the internet with authentication, those extensions needn't be implemented, making this also a moot point, especially with the existance of multiple BSD licensed SMTP libraries.
Quote: The chat-system already uses an IRC-like protocol. So nay.
How do you come to that conclusion? Link to a documentation/source for this.
Furthermore just because it's IRC-like doesn't mean it can easily extended to out of the game without reinventing the wheel or missing functionality.
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Mr Spot
I Blame Chum
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
1. It breaks immersion 2. Email clients are stupidly over-complex for this purpose 3. They would have to implement the SMTP stack on top of TQ either way. And SMTP isn't a simple protocol.
1. Any out-of-game access to in-game data will be immersion breaking, whether it be by COSMOS webmail, a real email client, or by a half-arsed evemail client written for a proprietary API. At least allowing real clients results in less effort on the part of the community, and lets the player access their data exactly the way they want to.
2. Nobody is saying you have to use the most expensive, over-developed synergy-enhanced enterprise groupware mail client. I'm sure you will be able to find an email client that is as simple as you want it to be.
3. Most of the least-simple parts of SMTP deal with server-to-server communication, which doesn't apply to a walled garden. And the idea is that the developers could find a way to use an existing smtpd or library to use.
The in-game client wouldn't have to use this SMTP server anyway, it could just bypass it and inject mail straight into the mail store. The point of SMTP would be for the use of out-of-game clients.
Originally by: LaVista Vista
The chat-system already uses an IRC-like protocol. So nay.
The COSMOS chat system that hasn't actually been implemented yet?
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.08.07 15:36:00 -
[8]
Supporting this.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.08.07 17:13:00 -
[9]
Edited by: darius mclever on 07/08/2009 17:13:27 +1
maybe offer openid based on the eve accounts aswell.
edit: forgot the checkbox^^
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.08.08 00:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
1. It breaks immersion 2. Email clients are stupidly over-complex for this purpose 3. They would have to implement the SMTP stack on top of TQ either way. And SMTP isn't a simple protocol.
1. What the hell does waiting 10mins for evemail to load and then not being able to see who sent you the msg you're reading have to do with immersion? Are you suggesting the existing completely broken evemail interface is somehow immersive? *whatever*.
2. Email clients are what you make them. I'd be using gmail, what would you use?
3. SecondLife managed to implement POP3 accounts for every single primitive object in their world, every table, every chair has it's own email alias.
VERY MUCH SUPPORTED.
It will be a major disappointment if COSMOS come out as an amateur attempt. There are so many very fantastic social platforms and communication techs around at the moment, the design paradigms being used commonly are so clean and so usable. It would be a travesty if COSMOS is half-assed. Do it right or don't do it at all, I don't think I can take the disappointment.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.08.08 00:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 08/08/2009 01:00:09
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 07/08/2009 17:13:27 +1
maybe offer openid based on the eve accounts aswell.
edit: forgot the checkbox^^
Was thinkin the same thing, but then wouldn't want an OpenID path into my eve account.
Would be nice for account linking and cross-posting, but not for authentication.
edit: oh you mean Provider rather then Relay Partner...
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.08.08 02:39:00 -
[12]
yes. openid provider.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.08.08 03:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: darius mclever yes. openid provider.
OpenID would make oauth tokens for the Eve API a logical step.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.08.08 09:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: darius mclever yes. openid provider.
OpenID would make oauth tokens for the Eve API a logical step.
+1
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Resivan
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Posted - 2009.08.09 01:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
1. It breaks immersion 2. Email clients are stupidly over-complex for this purpose 3. They would have to implement the SMTP stack on top of TQ either way. And SMTP isn't a simple protocol.
1. Any OOG client has already given up on immersion, and this isn't a particularly immersive game to begin with. 2. The complexity of email clients is irrelevant because they already exist and have been written by someone other than CCP. 3. We're talking about longstanding, IETF standards track protocols here. There are an assortment of existing implementations, FOSS and otherwise. CCP can pick the one that best suits their needs.
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OwlManAtt
Yasashii Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.09 05:52:00 -
[16]
--- Owl |
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
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Posted - 2009.08.13 11:35:00 -
[17]
support
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Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
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Posted - 2009.08.15 03:27:00 -
[18]
/support
More security breakage is likely from reinventing the wheel than using what has been designed over decades. -- EVE Blog EVE Twitter |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.13 01:23:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 13/10/2009 01:25:58 bump....
I think the scrum team for these projects had enough warning that proprietry wasn't the way to go.
So......... When is the next post-dominion actual solution coming? One with some thought behind it?
edit: looking for the other threads that went further into OpenID/oAuth.
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Haakelen
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.13 04:26:00 -
[20]
Supported. I'd prefer not to have to wait for someone to develop apps for my phone to access all of this when it's finished.
Originally by: Jack Jombardo CCP love pirate, griffer, and other criminal acters!
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