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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:43:00 -
[1]
Now with less links to bots...
CCP could have simply removed the links to my original post and let the discussion continue but instead they decided to lock the thread and delete the OP entirely.
Continuing on...
Bots are a horrible blight on the Eve community as a whole and seriously impact every aspect of game play and harm every type of player in the most direct fashion. Local plays a huge part in the success of bots and the inability for players to directly attack them. Remove local and you'll remove a key component in the success of macro ratters.
Continue the discussion.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:47:00 -
[2]
Oh?
So what you are saying is that by removing local, the macros in motsu and sivala are going to be so scared, that they leave?
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Dark Soldat
Caldari The Green Machine Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:49:00 -
[3]
and i repeat..... WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Remove local ebil macro ratter bowts are not letting me rawt
and yea...remove local make 0.0 even less appealing.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Oh?
So what you are saying is that by removing local, the macros in motsu and sivala are going to be so scared, that they leave?
Nope, but the macro ratters would as they no longer can trigger their cloaking script when local is increased by 1.
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Hrodgar Ortal
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:55:00 -
[5]
Local is neither the cause nor the solution to macros.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Local is neither the cause nor the solution to macros.
Local is the key tool that macro bots use to interface with the game. Remove it and making a 100% successful macro bot becomes infinitely more challenging and difficult.
Macro ratters need to go, Local needs to go.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Oh?
So what you are saying is that by removing local, the macros in motsu and sivala are going to be so scared, that they leave?
What is worse for the Eve economy- some macro miners in Motsu pouring trit and ice into the game's markets or macro ratters in 0.0 generating raw ISK?
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tiny Tove on 07/08/2009 09:04:35 23/7 account activity is automatically detectable, and automatic proof of some sort of EULA violation, except in the rare case of the extremely wealthy person who needs no job, has food brought to them, and they live on a single hour of sleep, at downtime.
That would be 100% more proof and better resolution than a local nerf, which I'm not against, I'm just saying, if this is about macros, then CCP has everything it needs at it's disposal, you'd think they would use it.
Since they don't, it's pretty clear they're not against macro usage in any way.
EDIT: And the wealthy human freak also plays Eve sitting naked on a commode, which should be an EULA violation in itself.
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Sub 7
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sub 7 on 07/08/2009 09:04:29 I think we came to the conclusion that the problem wasn't easily solved through catching people running bots in the background.
What about making it very difficult to scan down cloaked ships for say, five minutes after they cloak? Some kind of residual warp signature trace or something.
That would at least give you a fighting chance to spank them if you were intent on it.
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Hrodgar Ortal
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Local is neither the cause nor the solution to macros.
Local is the key tool that macro bots use to interface with the game. Remove it and making a 100% successful macro bot becomes infinitely more challenging and difficult.
Macro ratters need to go, Local needs to go.
Local would remove them for 1 week until they have made new macros using the scanner to look for changes. At the same time 99% of the legitimate population in 0.0 would have left. End result, macroers remain, ccp lose income as people stop playing. Good for noone. Local is not the cause and doesn't solve any of the problems with macroers. Your crusade against local has more to do with the idiotic idea that it will increase the defenseless targets you love to kill when quite the opposite will happen.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tiny Tove Edited by: Tiny Tove on 07/08/2009 09:04:35 23/7 account activity is automatically detectable, and automatic proof of some sort of EULA violation, except in the rare case of the extremely wealthy person who needs no job, has food brought to them, and they live on a single hour of sleep, at downtime.
That would be 100% more proof and better resolution than a local nerf, which I'm not against, I'm just saying, if this is about macros, then CCP has everything it needs at it's disposal, you'd think they would use it.
Since they don't, it's pretty clear they're not against macro usage in any way.
EDIT: And the wealthy human freak also plays Eve sitting naked on a commode, which should be an EULA violation in itself.
So program the bot to not be active 23/7. Have it vary the hours of operation and have it vary the characters used on the account. Have it be completely random. Now it's 100% undetectable by the approach you've just put forth.
Remove local and you remove the primary tool macro bots use to ensure their safety from other players. Even if real players only have a small chance of catching a bot, it will be better than the chance they have currently, which is zero.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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robbyx
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:22:00 -
[12]
Now im not some big city lawyer *GASP*....but it seems to me to be very simple....when some one cloaks...random keystrokes or mouse movements dictated by the server need to be made every 2 minutes to maintain cloak....as if to "recalibrate" the cloaking device. No more AFK cloakers or macro ratters.
Of course i know nothing about computers or programming, so this may well be just a stupid idea.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:28:00 -
[13]
If you're just going to presume that people will adapt to whatever you change, then there is no point changing anything.
The 0.0 ratters appeared right as the highsec 4 covetor + 1 Iteron gangs vanished more or less overnight.
If we pretend that removing local in 0.0 will stop them ratting in 0.0, do we presume that they will simply stop farming and selling isk, or do we presume they will just find another way?
Because if all you do is move them from 0.0 to someplace else, you have not fixed the problem, you've just moved it, and the misguided attempt caused everybody to endure a game changer that should stand on it's own merits, not on the back of a cause it won't resolve.
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: robbyx Now im not some big city lawyer *GASP*....but it seems to me to be very simple....when some one cloaks...random keystrokes or mouse movements dictated by the server need to be made every 2 minutes to maintain cloak....as if to "recalibrate" the cloaking device. No more AFK cloakers or macro ratters.
Of course i know nothing about computers or programming, so this may well be just a stupid idea.
Wrong ________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 09:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Local is neither the cause nor the solution to macros.
Local is the key tool that macro bots use to interface with the game. Remove it and making a 100% successful macro bot becomes infinitely more challenging and difficult.
Macro ratters need to go, Local needs to go.
Local would remove them for 1 week until they have made new macros using the scanner to look for changes. At the same time 99% of the legitimate population in 0.0 would have left. End result, macroers remain, ccp lose income as people stop playing. Good for noone. Local is not the cause and doesn't solve any of the problems with macroers. Your crusade against local has more to do with the idiotic idea that it will increase the defenseless targets you love to kill when quite the opposite will happen.
Even if the bots use the scanner constantly, that won't save them from recons and people skilled in the use of probes. The bots will die quite easily in my opinion after local is changed to delayed.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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robbyx
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bestofworst Worstofbest
Originally by: robbyx Now im not some big city lawyer *GASP*....but it seems to me to be very simple....when some one cloaks...random keystrokes or mouse movements dictated by the server need to be made every 2 minutes to maintain cloak....as if to "recalibrate" the cloaking device. No more AFK cloakers or macro ratters.
Of course i know nothing about computers or programming, so this may well be just a stupid idea.
Wrong
Random keystrokes....random keystrokes....random keystrokes....see where im going with this ?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now with less links to bots...
CCP could have simply removed the links to my original post and let the discussion continue but instead they decided to lock the thread and delete the OP entirely.
Continuing on...
Bots are a horrible blight on the Eve community as a whole and seriously impact every aspect of game play and harm every type of player in the most direct fashion. Local plays a huge part in the success of bots and the inability for players to directly attack them. Remove local and you'll remove a key component in the success of macro ratters.
Continue the discussion.
So, you remove local, they use constellation chat, you remove constellation they use region, or empire.
You want all the public chat channells removed, inclusive of the NPC corp chat?
If they are not all removed you always return to the starting point. Spam bot will still spam the channels with a lot of potential clients.
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Hrodgar Ortal
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Local is neither the cause nor the solution to macros.
Local is the key tool that macro bots use to interface with the game. Remove it and making a 100% successful macro bot becomes infinitely more challenging and difficult.
Macro ratters need to go, Local needs to go.
Local would remove them for 1 week until they have made new macros using the scanner to look for changes. At the same time 99% of the legitimate population in 0.0 would have left. End result, macroers remain, ccp lose income as people stop playing. Good for noone. Local is not the cause and doesn't solve any of the problems with macroers. Your crusade against local has more to do with the idiotic idea that it will increase the defenseless targets you love to kill when quite the opposite will happen.
Even if the bots use the scanner constantly, that won't save them from recons and people skilled in the use of probes. The bots will die quite easily in my opinion after local is changed to delayed.
Unless you intend on keeping the belts static (which with no local just won't happen) you have to probe for them. Probes show up on scanner. Scanner can be automated by scripts Changes in scanner output works the same as changes in local and there you have no change for the macroers while screwing over EVERYONE else. Bad bad bad move
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Unless you intend on keeping the belts static (which with no local just won't happen) you have to probe for them. Probes show up on scanner. Scanner can be automated by scripts Changes in scanner output works the same as changes in local and there you have no change for the macroers while screwing over EVERYONE else. Bad bad bad move
Not if the belts were 'probable' using the built-in on-board scanner. Duuhhhh.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:26:00 -
[20]
If local is the nr1 tool in macro's for cloacking have it add 1 and deduct 1 every 5 mins. Should be doable within a milisecond or so i'd say? Cloak engages due to local nr rising and maybe it will hang because local rised and dropped in quick succession or something? Macro ratters arn't doing much anymore then.
Perhaps build a hidden local with always 1 in it which is just not viewable in UI?
Just some thingies really.. ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:29:00 -
[21]
They will move elsewhere, they will not be removed from the game. Removing local will not have solved the problem, it will have moved the problem, likely back to hisec where it started.
Nerfing local is an issue that can stand on it's own... didn't I type this once already?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Not if the belts were 'probable' using the built-in on-board scanner. Duuhhhh.
So again we return to the invisible hunter and the fish in a barrel target?
It is really your dream to play in a server with 5K players at top hours?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:31:00 -
[23]
EVE Online facilitates and promotes the use of BOTS/MACROS
Close the servers NOW !!! -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 07/08/2009 10:27:56 If local is the nr1 tool in macro's for cloacking have it add 1 and deduct 1 every 5 mins. Should be doable within a milisecond or so i'd say? Cloak engages due to local nr rising and maybe it will hang because local rised and dropped in quick succession or something? Macro ratters arn't doing much anymore then.
Perhaps build a hidden local with always 1 in it or even an ever changing one which is just not viewable in UI?
Just some thingies really..
Clearly you don't have an understanding of how the bots work. It's all based on the visible UI.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.08.07 10:46:00 -
[25]
i've found a new hobby/sport a few weeks back: hunting these mofos down. alas, it takes 2 hours on _average_ but then you get a free raven/drake kill. i especially like it when they're coming back ^^ ... or if they simply don't have the code to loot commander/officer wrecks ^^
but i do have a few questions... could it be...; - the bot includes (sister) combat probes? - the bot can warp to _random_ safe spots? - the probing system does not remember probe ranges upon reconnecting (especially relogging)? - the probes forget all about probing bonuses upon reconnecting? - the probe filters are quite fubar? - putting the gist back into logistics |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 11:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider i've found a new hobby/sport a few weeks back: hunting these mofos down. alas, it takes 2 hours on _average_ but then you get a free raven/drake kill. i especially like it when they're coming back ^^ ... or if they simply don't have the code to loot commander/officer wrecks ^^
but i do have a few questions... could it be...; - the bot includes (sister) combat probes? - the bot can warp to _random_ safe spots? - the probing system does not remember probe ranges upon reconnecting (especially relogging)? - the probes forget all about probing bonuses upon reconnecting? - the probe filters are quite fubar?
Your questions make no sense.
Could it be that the bot includes sisters combat probes? In what? Its probe checks?
The probing system doesn't remember probe ranges? What probing system? The bots? The bots don't have a 'probing system'.
The probes forget all about probing bonuses? Who's probes? Yours? WTH do you mean?
Etc. etc. etc. Please explain.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.07 11:09:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 07/08/2009 11:10:29
Same response MK II.
I think that I speak to a french politician :
Pol - We will filter the Internet (remove local) to stop access to pedophile websites (macro) ! The "LOPPSI rev2" law will be created shortly !
You - Hum... You don't resolve the origin of the problem (gameplay, ISK buyers,... ), and this can be countered (scan spam, new tool,... ), and some can use this filter to their interest (easy targets), this can generate bad consequences (emptying null sec, bigger blobs, no fun), and the police will have problems to find and arrest them (patrols).
Pol - Are you blind ? You support pedophiles, right ?!?
You - ... _______ Local is fine, period.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.07 11:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 07/08/2009 11:10:29
Same response MK II.
I think that I speak to a french politician :
Pol - We will filter the Internet (remove local) to stop access to pedophile websites (macro) ! The "LOPPSI rev2" law will be created shortly !
You - Hum... You don't resolve the origin of the problem (gameplay, ISK buyers,... ), and this can be countered (scan spam, new tool,... ), and some can use this filter to their interest (easy targets), this can generate bad consequences (emptying null sec, bigger blobs, no fun), and the police will have problems to find and arrest them (patrols).
Pol - Are you blind ? You support pedophiles, right ?!?
You - ...
Precisely. You are pro-pedophile. Bravo for that leap of logic.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Myyona
Minmatar Ataraxia Pharmacies
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Posted - 2009.08.07 11:15:00 -
[29]
The last patch of isk farmers (using macro or not I do not know) were doing hauling missions in low security space to generate isk. I do not see how removing local will do anything at all to dampen way of farming isk.
Further, this group did not care one bit that their courier routes took them straight through a home system of a larger pirate corporation or that their ships got blown up repeatably at the same stargate. They just went on and on and on, because sooner or later the pirate gets tired but the farmer and his many accounts do not.
If killing their ships repeatably does not stop isk farmers how will removing local do any difference at all?
--- Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do nothing |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.08.07 11:39:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Now with less links to bots...
CCP could have simply removed the links to my original post and let the discussion continue but instead they decided to lock the thread and delete the OP entirely.
Continuing on...
Bots are a horrible blight on the Eve community as a whole and seriously impact every aspect of game play and harm every type of player in the most direct fashion. Local plays a huge part in the success of bots and the inability for players to directly attack them. Remove local and you'll remove a key component in the success of macro ratters.
Continue the discussion.
Macros could get past this by just having the macro interpret the scanner data, which they could just hit repeatedly. Actual players couldn't counter this, so macros would be more, not less effective by removing local......
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