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mchief117
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Posted - 2009.08.07 12:32:00 -
[1]
ok so torps used to be these massively god send weapons with huge ranges and the ability to hit multipal ships for bizar amounts of damage just by looking at them funny. and know look what we have today .............. sad really.
i know that torps where nerfed due to being over powered but i think they got a few to many wachs with the nerfing stick as in order to use them you eather have to have months of training in a caldari BS or you need to be witn in 15-20K of your target, not somethign thats easy to do in a BS i might add. this has caused cruise missiles to become the best missile out there are you can shoot them at targets over 300K away and they do 2/3 of the torps damage.
my suggestion is to give the torps a bit of there bite back with an increase to damage, its fine that torps are in essence the melee weapon of the big missiles, as every weapon in this game baring AOE weapons has a long range and short range counterpart (railgun to hybrid).
this would give the torps the dps they need to become a contender again and also have a reasion to have such a large explosion graphic.
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AleksandrZ
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Posted - 2009.08.07 12:36:00 -
[2]
Only part I agree with is that graphic of exploding torpedo is total overkill. As it is now one would expect a ship blown to tiny little pieces from these shockwaves!
Other then that... its really funny as you say that cruise missile has become the best
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.08.07 13:14:00 -
[3]
If anything make the guided missile precision skill apply to unguided missiles. Just cahnge the name of the skill. Afaik all gunnery support skills apply to all guns, make it so for missiles as well.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.08.07 13:19:00 -
[4]
You can hit out to 60km with T2 torps. If you compare it to other short range weapons, that's not short at all. Therefore you'll have to trade off some damage.
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voiddragon
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Posted - 2009.08.12 03:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia You can hit out to 60km with T2 torps. If you compare it to other short range weapons, that's not short at all. Therefore you'll have to trade off some damage.
What ship/torpedos are you using? I have caldari BS 5 and barely get 24km with torps. Then you have such a large blast radius that whatever you shoot at doesn't feel a thing, people say you can't fit ewar(scram and web) on a caldari ship cause you need it for tank, well you can't fit tank on a raven because you need it for DPS(target painters).
At the end of the day I understand they say there's no balance in EVE, but when it comes to missile and shield tanking ships(caldari) it's just unfair. I remember eve when torps could destroy frigates at the same range as cruise missiles today. Now I'm not saying revert back to that, but atleast make the torpedos more precise/small blast radius so we can actually put down some of our DPS onto our enmies. With our poor maneuverability it's not like we can actually take advantage of our range anyway. The trick is to put enough damage down during the period where they're not hitting you so you can make up for the damage they'll be doing to you when they get in close.
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VC General
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Posted - 2009.08.12 05:10:00 -
[6]
You need maxed missile range skills, rigs, BS5 on a ship with torpedo range bonuses, and T2 torps to reach 60km. You can get to about 45km without T2.
I think torps are pretty much fine right now. My only serious problem with them is the fitting requirements. You have to give up a lot to fit torps, more so then their gun equivalents. If I did anything to buff them, it would be very slight, like a 10% flight time bonus, and a 10% reduction on grid and CPU.
I don't see how DPS is an issue. They're the hardest hitting sub-cap weapon in the game. The only reason I'd recommend a small range increase is that with them being extremely slow missiles, they're already at a disadvantage vs guns in pvp, and that extra 10km of range won't change opinions. I'd just like it possible to hit pve targets that hover at 50km without using T2 ammo. I wouldn't even mind a further reduction in speed and an additional flight time bonus to compensate.
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Emily Jean
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Posted - 2009.08.12 05:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan If anything make the guided missile precision skill apply to unguided missiles. Just cahnge the name of the skill. Afaik all gunnery support skills apply to all guns, make it so for missiles as well.
Controlled bursts skill does not count towards Projectiles.
But back to topic, Torps are fine. A budy of mine takes out a torp raven solo all the time for PVP. In one fight he took out a Brutix, a Ferox, and a Cruise Raven... SOLO!!! Know how to fit your ship
Armor tanking is for PVP Shield tanking is for PVE
Think about your setups. And yes, Armor tank your raven.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.12 07:00:00 -
[8]
Torps are used to take down Battleship sized targets, not cruisers/frigs. And if you ask me they do fine in that aspect. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.12 07:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Emily Jean
Originally by: Lindsay Logan If anything make the guided missile precision skill apply to unguided missiles. Just cahnge the name of the skill. Afaik all gunnery support skills apply to all guns, make it so for missiles as well.
Controlled bursts skill does not count towards Projectiles.
But back to topic, Torps are fine. A budy of mine takes out a torp raven solo all the time for PVP. In one fight he took out a Brutix, a Ferox, and a Cruise Raven... SOLO!!! Know how to fit your ship
Armor tanking is for PVP Shield tanking is for PVE
Think about your setups. And yes, Armor tank your raven.
Controlled Bursts used to affect Projectiles but then the devs made projectiles overpowered by completely removing all cap use from them. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Jordus
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Posted - 2009.08.12 12:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Emily Jean
Armor tanking is for PVP Shield tanking is for PVE
Think about your setups. And yes, Armor tank your raven.
Wrong. The fact that all damage and all passive speed mods are low slot based and shield tanks take a higher DPS over a shorter ammount of time then armour tanks mean shield tanking is easily a viable option for pvp, even solo pvp. Of course this depends on ship type and fighting style, but if your broad generalisation were true many ships especially T2 ones would not be bought at all or used in pvp as much as they are.
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Chi'kote
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Posted - 2009.08.12 12:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Controlled Bursts used to affect Projectiles but then the devs made projectiles overpowered by completely removing all cap use from them.
LOL, I think this is the first person I've ever heard call projectiles OVERPOWERED . They are by far the most commonly complained about kings of craptasticification.
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Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.12 20:14:00 -
[12]
A few points
1) Projectiles being overpowered - wtf? 2) Torps not hitting smaller targets - that's by design, try flying any turret BS then talk 3) Shield vs armor tanking - armor tanking is almost always the best option for larger ships, with shield tanking being a good option often for lighter ships.
CEO, Agony Unleashed |
Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.08.12 21:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jordus
Originally by: Emily Jean
Armor tanking is for PVP Shield tanking is for PVE
Think about your setups. And yes, Armor tank your raven.
Wrong. The fact that all damage and all passive speed mods are low slot based and shield tanks take a higher DPS over a shorter ammount of time then armour tanks mean shield tanking is easily a viable option for pvp, even solo pvp. Of course this depends on ship type and fighting style, but if your broad generalisation were true many ships especially T2 ones would not be bought at all or used in pvp as much as they are.
This!!
But not, armour-tanked ravens are, in fact, awesome due to the 6 midslot ewar madness.
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Khalia Nestune
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.12 22:03:00 -
[14]
Torps are anti-BS weapons, and they do that great.
On my stealth bomber I get an alpha of more than 3000 with torps and a few TPs. Win.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.13 01:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Chi'kote
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Controlled Bursts used to affect Projectiles but then the devs made projectiles overpowered by completely removing all cap use from them.
LOL, I think this is the first person I've ever heard call projectiles OVERPOWERED . They are by far the most commonly complained about kings of craptasticification.
That's only because (currently) capacitor isn't really important. The prevalence of buffer tanks is one of the reasons.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
voiddragon
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Posted - 2009.08.13 02:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: VC General You need maxed missile range skills, rigs, BS5 on a ship with torpedo range bonuses, and T2 torps to reach 60km. You can get to about 45km without T2.
I think torps are pretty much fine right now. My only serious problem with them is the fitting requirements. You have to give up a lot to fit torps, more so then their gun equivalents. If I did anything to buff them, it would be very slight, like a 10% flight time bonus, and a 10% reduction on grid and CPU.
I don't see how DPS is an issue. They're the hardest hitting sub-cap weapon in the game. The only reason I'd recommend a small range increase is that with them being extremely slow missiles, they're already at a disadvantage vs guns in pvp, and that extra 10km of range won't change opinions. I'd just like it possible to hit pve targets that hover at 50km without using T2 ammo. I wouldn't even mind a further reduction in speed and an additional flight time bonus to compensate.
You'd be a fool to fit range rigs on a close range battleship. Yet another example of caldari sacrificing tank and ewar to accomodate for their style of fightng. DPS isn't an issue, putting the DPS onto the target is, they don't need flight time but more speed to try and match guns and I see no need for the reduction in grid and cpu!
Originally by: Emily Jean
Controlled bursts skill does not count towards Projectiles.
But back to topic, Torps are fine. A budy of mine takes out a torp raven solo all the time for PVP. In one fight he took out a Brutix, a Ferox, and a Cruise Raven... SOLO!!! Know how to fit your ship
Armor tanking is for PVP Shield tanking is for PVE
Think about your setups. And yes, Armor tank your raven.
Was this a joke post? I don't know where to begin with what you said... prjectiles don't use cap, shield tanks are good for PVP when fit right, armor tanking a raven means no damage mods ect.... you have gotta be joking or a total noob. And if you're joking then you posting here was just a waste of time....
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voiddragon
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Posted - 2009.08.13 02:39:00 -
[17]
To the person who said fly a turret BS to compare to a torp raven not htting a small target... you completely mis-understood the argument. I was arguing that you can't put all your DPS onto a large target even. And even then I've one shot a cruiser with a megathron before and I get much lower DPS in the mega than in a torp raven so consider that.
Originally by: voiddragon
Originally by: VC General You need maxed missile range skills, rigs, BS5 on a ship with torpedo range bonuses, and T2 torps to reach 60km. You can get to about 45km without T2.
I think torps are pretty much fine right now. My only serious problem with them is the fitting requirements. You have to give up a lot to fit torps, more so then their gun equivalents. If I did anything to buff them, it would be very slight, like a 10% flight time bonus, and a 10% reduction on grid and CPU.
I don't see how DPS is an issue. They're the hardest hitting sub-cap weapon in the game. The only reason I'd recommend a small range increase is that with them being extremely slow missiles, they're already at a disadvantage vs guns in pvp, and that extra 10km of range won't change opinions. I'd just like it possible to hit pve targets that hover at 50km without using T2 ammo. I wouldn't even mind a further reduction in speed and an additional flight time bonus to compensate.
You'd be a fool to fit range rigs on a close range battleship. Yet another example of caldari sacrificing tank and ewar to accomodate for their style of fightng. DPS isn't an issue, putting the DPS onto the target is, they don't need flight time but more speed to try and match guns and I see no need for the reduction in grid and cpu!
Originally by: Emily Jean
Controlled bursts skill does not count towards Projectiles.
But back to topic, Torps are fine. A budy of mine takes out a torp raven solo all the time for PVP. In one fight he took out a Brutix, a Ferox, and a Cruise Raven... SOLO!!! Know how to fit your ship
Armor tanking is for PVP Shield tanking is for PVE
Think about your setups. And yes, Armor tank your raven.
Was this a joke post? I don't know where to begin with what you said... prjectiles don't use cap, shield tanks are good for PVP when fit right, armor tanking a raven means no damage mods ect.... you have gotta be joking or a total noob. And if you're joking then you posting here was just a waste of time....
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Emily Jean
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Posted - 2009.08.13 03:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Emily Jean on 13/08/2009 03:13:28
Originally by: voiddragon
Originally by: VC General You need maxed missile range skills, rigs, BS5 on a ship with torpedo range bonuses, and T2 torps to reach 60km. You can get to about 45km without T2.
I think torps are pretty much fine right now. My only serious problem with them is the fitting requirements. You have to give up a lot to fit torps, more so then their gun equivalents. If I did anything to buff them, it would be very slight, like a 10% flight time bonus, and a 10% reduction on grid and CPU.
I don't see how DPS is an issue. They're the hardest hitting sub-cap weapon in the game. The only reason I'd recommend a small range increase is that with them being extremely slow missiles, they're already at a disadvantage vs guns in pvp, and that extra 10km of range won't change opinions. I'd just like it possible to hit pve targets that hover at 50km without using T2 ammo. I wouldn't even mind a further reduction in speed and an additional flight time bonus to compensate.
You'd be a fool to fit range rigs on a close range battleship. Yet another example of caldari sacrificing tank and ewar to accomodate for their style of fightng. DPS isn't an issue, putting the DPS onto the target is, they don't need flight time but more speed to try and match guns and I see no need for the reduction in grid and cpu!
Originally by: Emily Jean
Controlled bursts skill does not count towards Projectiles.
But back to topic, Torps are fine. A budy of mine takes out a torp raven solo all the time for PVP. In one fight he took out a Brutix, a Ferox, and a Cruise Raven... SOLO!!! Know how to fit your ship
Armor tanking is for PVP Shield tanking is for PVE
Think about your setups. And yes, Armor tank your raven.
Was this a joke post? I don't know where to begin with what you said... prjectiles don't use cap, shield tanks are good for PVP when fit right, armor tanking a raven means no damage mods ect.... you have gotta be joking or a total noob. And if you're joking then you posting here was just a waste of time....
Hmm, my response to you is.... let me think, how about, yes Im a total noob and have no clue what Im talking about.
But back to reality!! You dont need to sacrifice damage mods.... Look it up, some of the best PVPers of their time... Burn Eden, would kick people from corp for shield tanking a Raven.
Yes I did over generalize, there are ships that should use a shield tank, and have no choice otherwise. Curse, Drake Nighthawk, and a few others.
Learn to fit a ship, Gank > Tank...
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KissedByDeath
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Posted - 2009.08.13 06:45:00 -
[19]
Quote: If anything make the guided missile precision skill apply to unguided missiles. Just cahnge the name of the skill. Afaik all gunnery support skills apply to all guns, make it so for missiles as well.
/signed
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.13 07:39:00 -
[20]
My shield tanked siege Raven perfomres well imo.
Too bad I need 2 painters to really hit cruisers tho, let me have more power! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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surrealchick
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Posted - 2009.08.14 05:34:00 -
[21]
seriously torps need some love. they can't even fully hit vs intended sized targets.(BS) and no skill will fix this. unless the bs is stationary and it has a sig radious over 450 then you're pretty screwed. Fix them make the sig radius reducing skill apply to torps. and maybe give them slightly more range. not too much. 5 to 10 km. Some BS have sig radii in the low 300s that's just unfair to torps. Applying the skill to torps will reduce the explosion radius to about 350 when at lvl 5.
and finally increase explosion velocity of all missiles by 1.5 or 2x from the current stats.
fix caldari!
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