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Richyp
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:51:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Robert Caldera so you feel good stealing handbags from grannies or take candies of kids? my apologises, even in the harsh eve environment!
You see eve is a lot like real life because... furthermore...
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Zartanic
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Posted - 2009.08.10 16:36:00 -
[122]
If you guys can't kill an Alt a few days old your the one that fails, its as simple as that. What the hell were you doing mining in ships you could not afford to lose with no trusted backup anyway?
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Mr Unlikely
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Posted - 2009.08.10 20:43:00 -
[123]
I'm sorry your corp is so pathetic they are being terrorized by a 3 day old player.
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Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.08.10 22:11:00 -
[124]
I forcast a large increase in the number of new players applying to joining this corp. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
William ThyFoe
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Posted - 2009.08.11 06:00:00 -
[125]
Edited by: William ThyFoe on 11/08/2009 06:00:25 personally I believe the allow/not allow PVP is just plain stupid. Eve has always been a brutal game where you can lose a heap of in game work which is one of the many reason I love it.
Personally I don't think stupidity should be recifyed by the hands of a GM. I think that if someone is kicked from a corp then they should be booted when they are docked (or podded) or if that has failed to be done then in 24 hours no matter if they are in space or what.
In this particular case I have no idea why even a mining barge with drones couldn't have taken this guy out but it appears the corp CEO didn't attempt any form of returning the griefer to station.
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Slightly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.11 07:10:00 -
[126]
This thread started out as a warning about a potential problem with game mechanics, i.e. that characters can grief corp members when they aren't prepared. Unfortunately actual evidence has shown that it's the corp in question's complete lack of understanding of the game, or willingness to defend themselves, that is the only problem.
Now, if I, as a multi-year character, joined a corp made by new players who could barely afford their frigs, let alone anything better, and then killed them all and took their stuff with my super-fitted ship of choice, then you may have a leg to stand on with the griefing part. At that point I could see ground for a GM to kick me. But this is just stupid.
I mean, if he hadn't docked for days, I could maybe see something. But hours? And hours during which you had him under your foot and in your crosshairs? And he's three-days old? WTF can he fit to that ship that could pose a problem to you guys with your fancy Hulks and Command Ships? I don't even know if an faction and officer-fit destroyer could have survived if you had bothered to press the fire keys.
As someone previously pointed out: a Hulk can kill a cruiser. If you guys had been attacking the Hulk, you'd probably have to be in a cap ship to stand a chance of winning.
So you got lucky in having either a GM with a grudge or a new and clueless one answer your petition. Count yourself lucky. It probably won't happen again.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
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devilator
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Posted - 2009.08.11 09:30:00 -
[127]
Man I really think some of you kids need to get off your parents computer. Puncher I know you felt bad for the two hulk pilots..that my friend was a tough lesson to learn. Unfortunatley your new corp memembers should only be folks recommended by your current corp memember, or real life friends. Once all the new folks get upset and start complaining how no one is inviting them in a corp, CCP will do something about this particular feckeup game mechanic.To actually gain someone trust only to betray them takes a real slime bag which seems to be at least half of eve. And to that moron who actually called the GM stupid. Im pretty sure she knows game mechanics alot better than you considering CCP pays her to and you pay CCP to play there game. So unless can produce a link of the specific game rule that you think you know please STFU! |
Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.08.11 10:14:00 -
[128]
Reading this thread has increased my "rookie confusion" about what the game allows or doesn't allow. My early impression was that the "griefing" was that a player used an unintended game mechanic to avoid eing kicked from a Corp (but it seems this has been patched so it's not an issue now).
Would someone mind telling me if these actions are officially griefing:
In high-sec space, using "bait" to trick another player into PvP (can-baiting etc)? Joining a corp and then later destroying corp-members ships or property?
And a related question: can a player or Corp find all thje characters on an account from the name or API of just one of them?
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Flauschig Katzchen
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Posted - 2009.08.11 11:30:00 -
[129]
Lessons learned from this thread: -Don't invite random people to your corp. -High-sec mining is boring and unprofitable. -Fixing one exploit will create at least one new exploit (ok, we learned that in 1997 with Ultima Online). -Get a game time card, sell it, buy some skills and some real ships. |
LordInvisible
Gallente GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:00:00 -
[130]
Well, not sure about u guys, but whining in forums doesnt fix anything: nor "fixing griefing tactics" nor fixing GM playing gods and not by rules.
I have petitioned GM Kaliastra for multiple reasons from this thread and asked if i can get reimbursed every suicided ship loss i got in empire, beacuse, u all know, i didnt agree on combat.
let see how internal affairs really work at ccp these days, after that t20 or whatever BPO problem.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are recruting: Recruitment |
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Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:28:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz Reading this thread has increased my "rookie confusion" about what the game allows or doesn't allow. My early impression was that the "griefing" was that a player used an unintended game mechanic to avoid eing kicked from a Corp (but it seems this has been patched so it's not an issue now).
Would someone mind telling me if these actions are officially griefing:
In high-sec space, using "bait" to trick another player into PvP (can-baiting etc)? Joining a corp and then later destroying corp-members ships or property?
And a related question: can a player or Corp find all thje characters on an account from the name or API of just one of them?
A limited API gives all character info on the account, but you can't tell without an API.
Baiting in starter systems and specifically targeting brand new players is not allowed as far as I know, but baiting in general in high sec is.
Sabotaging corpmates is not considered griefing.
As far as I can tell the only reason the GM did anything is because of the hole in game mechanics that doesn't allow you to boot a corpmember who's in space?
CEO, Agony Unleashed |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:50:00 -
[132]
Originally by: PuncherDavis
GTFO.
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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2009.08.11 22:07:00 -
[133]
There is a whole battalion of players who predictably come down on the side of any old thing any old player does. As usual, they have shown up on this thread to make their predictable catcalls.
It does not matter to these folk how much of an exploit some tactic is. It does not matter whether the only goal is simply to spoil the game for others, without any gameplay benefit to the griefer. In fact, the more destructive a tactic, the better.
This works as a game philosophy if your game is to make other players enjoy the game less. However, griefing is just the gaming equivalent of vandalism, and nothing more.
It has the same value to a game as RL vandalism has to a residential neigborhood - none at all.
Hurray for the OP here.
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Another Forum'Alt
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.08.11 22:29:00 -
[134]
Should have had one director sitting on the corp interface, and a few people kill then pod him, then get the director to kick him as soon as he is back in the station.
Also, don't let newbs into your corp. BECAUSE OF FALCON. Guide to forum posting |
Antir
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.11 23:03:00 -
[135]
I'll tell you a secret, the account (not character) was less than three days old. The character was much younger.
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Jeebus Cynoalt
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Posted - 2009.08.12 00:58:00 -
[136]
/starts reading
/keeps reading
/makes popcorn
I think this thread is going places guys...
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Zartanic
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Posted - 2009.08.12 04:58:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Zartanic on 12/08/2009 05:01:17
Originally by: Forge Trader There is a whole battalion of players who predictably come down on the side of any old thing any old player does. As usual, they have shown up on this thread to make their predictable catcalls.
It does not matter to these folk how much of an exploit some tactic is. It does not matter whether the only goal is simply to spoil the game for others, without any gameplay benefit to the griefer. In fact, the more destructive a tactic, the better.
This works as a game philosophy if your game is to make other players enjoy the game less. However, griefing is just the gaming equivalent of vandalism, and nothing more.
It has the same value to a game as RL vandalism has to a residential neigborhood - none at all.
Hurray for the OP here.
It actually had a lot of value and gameplay benefit. Hopefully the Corp will learn the following:
1. Don't use ships they can't afford and leave new players on their own and at the mercy of others.
2. Never assume they are always safe
3. Not be capable of killing a character a few days old.. seriously, how bad is that?
4. Learn to resolve their own problems and plan for contingencies.
5. Learn that if your a mining corps to have PVP contacts. (Plenty of mercenary corps would have blown up the ship for next to nothing)
So for some of us it would be a good learning experience. But then some players have no interest in learning anything, they just moan.
EDIT: I've noticed a lot of players recently moaning about stupid things, such as they cant fly auto pilot in low sec without 'griefers' podding them or the fact a WHOLE CORP cant kill a 3 day old pilot.
Something stinks about the posts. Wonder who is behind them.
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Rutgar Gist
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Posted - 2009.08.13 13:41:00 -
[138]
This OP reminds me of the "blue +" pirate debates.
I believe that the option of allowing corp, alliance or fleet based PVP should be toggled on or off.
Again to the OP....
Yesterday my Caldari toon had run into a bit of trouble with a mission I had mishandled. I needed help to finish it, but I'm not in a corp. I asked for help in local and along came an offer. This Gallente pilot joined my fleet, and we begain to prep for the mission.
Then I got the sudden thought.....I'm vulnerable here! I re-docked, told the guy...sorry RL calls...and I logged.
Always remember, EVE is sometimes a cruel and harsh galaxy.
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Haks'he Lirky
Durgarnir
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Posted - 2009.08.13 13:44:00 -
[139]
1. He was in space 2. You can shoot people in space 3. When people loose their pod they will no longer be in space 4. Then you kick him out of corp
I fail to understand where the issue is...
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Nat Nova
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Posted - 2009.08.13 14:18:00 -
[140]
hero
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Sophia Truthspeaker
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.08.13 14:36:00 -
[141]
Should players be able to attack corp members? Hell yes!
Should players be able to attack corp members, then after getting kicked out of the corp recycle the char and start a fresh new alt to rinse an repeat? I think that falls in the same category as recycling suicide alts to avoid the consequences (the sec hit). In this case the hit to ones own reputation.
As much as I don't like Goons, if it was the first and only alt created to do that, I can't see any ground to call exploit.
And normally there isn't any griefing in Eve. But if the char didn't profited from it other than seeing three shiney explosions. Was he paid or did he pick up the loot? If neither of that, it sounds like griefing to me... one of the rare occasions where there actually is griefing in this game. _________
The truth is out there |
Narful
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Posted - 2009.08.13 15:55:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker
And normally there isn't any griefing in Eve. But if the char didn't profited from it other than seeing three shiney explosions. Was he paid or did he pick up the loot? If neither of that, it sounds like griefing to me... one of the rare occasions where there actually is griefing in this game.
Wait, I'm confused. Killing people in Eve isn't griefing as long as you profit from it? There are plenty of people who enjoy blowing people up for the sheer joy of blowing them up.
That's not griefing. --- I'm for sale! |
Sophia Truthspeaker
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.08.13 17:56:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Narful Wait, I'm confused. Killing people in Eve isn't griefing as long as you profit from it? There are plenty of people who enjoy blowing people up for the sheer joy of blowing them up.
That's not griefing.
Nope it isn't. But blowing them up repeatedly only to enjoy their tears and removing every negativ consequence for oneself, is griefing, as far as I am concerned. Sometimes the line is pretty small, granted, but using disposable alt chars to pop miners within the same corp is beyond that line in my opinion. Seems the GM thought so, too. _________
The truth is out there |
Tadeus Punkt
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Posted - 2009.08.13 18:07:00 -
[144]
/Hurray for the OP here.
A profession granting laughable profit but tranqulity and cooperation on the other hand.
What is griefing if not getting into an empire mining corp blowing up freindlies? Slap in the face and a month no i-net is what You deserve as well as the other p***tards demanding high-sec miners to be pvp-ready in case of bored goonatics around. High-sec podding.. lol?
Good gm-action here.
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Darwin's Market
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Posted - 2009.08.13 18:11:00 -
[145]
you guys lost something to a character less than 3 days old? please kill your corporation
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Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.13 21:52:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Forge Trader There is a whole battalion of players who predictably come down on the side of any old thing any old player does. As usual, they have shown up on this thread to make their predictable catcalls.
It does not matter to these folk how much of an exploit some tactic is. It does not matter whether the only goal is simply to spoil the game for others, without any gameplay benefit to the griefer. In fact, the more destructive a tactic, the better.
This works as a game philosophy if your game is to make other players enjoy the game less. However, griefing is just the gaming equivalent of vandalism, and nothing more.
It has the same value to a game as RL vandalism has to a residential neigborhood - none at all.
Hurray for the OP here.
Well, since you seem to like analogies, lets take your 'vandalism' analogy a bit further.
Pretend the internet is a country, made up of hundreds of individual cities (games). Now, one of those cities happens to be rife with drugs, vandalism and crime. Usually anyone going there is either a criminal, or is about to get mugged. Now, you choose to buy a house in this city and fill it with expensive computers, TVs, stereos, and a few bags of cash. Now, shortly after moving in a few frindly neighbours come over to warn you how rough the area is and that maybe you don't want to live there - you ignore them. Naturally, within a week your house has been robbed and you lose most of your stuff. Now, any sane person would leave at this point (considering moving house costs nothing), but you being 'special' decide that you are going to stay there and instead run around the streets complaining about how hard life is and how all the criminals should just play nice.
Now, at that point the analogy starts to break down, but you get the point? If you don't like EVE, then I suggest you go and find a more suitable game rather than trying to change the entire game to suit your vision of the ideal pretty-fairy-happy-bunny-space-land.
tl;dr: GO BACK TO WOW!
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.13 22:00:00 -
[147]
In all fairness CCP should stop advertising EvE as a "fair", "closely monitored" "fun, safe family friendly" game.
Oh, wait.
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Thassel Marta
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Posted - 2009.08.14 00:01:00 -
[148]
Originally by: PuncherDavis I just had a very unpleasant experience with a person named [07:48:01] laemb0rt > that way i'd never be able to joing a corp to grief!! It is spelled with an zero not an o as in orange.
I had caught one person before they got into my corp trying to do this but this time I had no way to check api code as the character was less then three days old. Thus I had no way of knowing the skill traininng that had been done.
We are a corp that loves to help new people started in the game...And thus when joining we after asking many questions were convinced he was a noob and wanted to join and learn the game ( the guy was good i'll give him that much)
Well he joined fleet came in as a destroyer to supposedly guard and then proceded to nuke two hulks in two different belts.. Now were talking people that just got into hulks.. NOT 4 year pros that got stuff on to keep from getting ganked..
After blowing them up and a retriever he refused to dock and you cant kick somebody out while they are in space.
aemb0rt > to do* laemb0rt > i don't know how they'd fix it though.. laemb0rt > I know! PuncherDavis > SIMPLE laemb0rt > NO MORE CORPS! laemb0rt > that way i'd never be able to joing a corp to grief!!
The moral to the story was the petition..7 of us petitioned him for griefing since we had no way to agree or not agree to combat.. If he never docked then we could never kick him thus putting us in the screwed pooch scenario.
I kid you not NO LESS then 3 minutes and he was out on his ASS booted by the GM Kaliastra.
Word to the wise.. Never let anybody less then three days old in.. That way you can secure their api key and see what they have trained. This guy told us it took all of 8 hours of training to get a destroyer that could kill a hulk.. NEWB hulk mind you but none the less.
CCP please GIVE an option in corp to ACCEPT OR NOT ACCEPT attacks from a fellow corp mate.. Not hard to do a single box popup and if you want to fight go at it.. THis in and of itself would render the whole matter done with.
Yeah I know the flaming will begin but whatever..if it was your ship that got toasted by a corp mate and you thought he was a buddy..you would be ****ed as well
His mistake was enjoying greifing you guys to much. While messing with you is fun, the first thing he should have done is held your corp for ransom, ask for a ransom to dock and leave your corp.
In this way a GM can not remove him simply because he is not greifing by CCP definition, he is trying to get isk out of you by telling you he is staying in your corp and killing your members till you pay him what he wants.
The First major corp and alliance I was in, I killed a retriever, it was fun, and I was bored, Following that I posted a mail in corp mail, telling them that I wanted 500 mil isk to leave or 500 mil in dmg's done to there corp and alliance. If they didnt pay I would stay in space and not dock so they couldn't kick me, and kill there nub pilots till they lost 500 mil worth of ships.
I was petitioned a few times, but as I was not breaking any rules, the GM's couldn't remove me from that corp and suggested that the corp killed me till I got bored and left.
Following that, an alliance fleet blew itself up in highsec trying to sucide gank my stabber. it was fun, but I wish I could have got on some of the KM's
Needless to say they had lost well over 500 mil isk, and I left, as not to give myself a bad name regarding ransoms.
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Thassel Marta
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Posted - 2009.08.14 00:07:00 -
[149]
Originally by: devilator Man I really think some of you kids need to get off your parents computer. Puncher I know you felt bad for the two hulk pilots..that my friend was a tough lesson to learn. Unfortunatley your new corp memembers should only be folks recommended by your current corp memember, or real life friends. Once all the new folks get upset and start complaining how no one is inviting them in a corp, CCP will do something about this particular feckeup game mechanic.To actually gain someone trust only to betray them takes a real slime bag which seems to be at least half of eve. And to that moron who actually called the GM stupid. Im pretty sure she knows game mechanics alot better than you considering CCP pays her to and you pay CCP to play there game. So unless can produce a link of the specific game rule that you think you know please STFU!
First off, man your post hurt my eyes, but don't worry I read it, and the part i underlined and made bold made me lol,
Most of the GM's as much as I love them, the low level ones anyway, know about as much about the game mechanics as the avg eve player, which IMO isn't much lol,
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Mel Lifera
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Posted - 2009.08.14 18:58:00 -
[150]
Not sure which tears are better - the "my corp couldn't deal with a 3-day-old character" ones or the "GM sucks for blocking my lulz" ones.
I will say that I was unaware your corp can't eject you until you dock up. That doesn't even make sense, really; but aspiring and extant CEO's would do well to take note of it.
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