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FOl2TY8 Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.28 00:27:00 - [331] Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 28/08/2009 00:27:21 Originally by: Aklari EDIT: highly amusing that CCP blocks a word that I wouldn't have possibly imagined a swear word. Is it poop? I bet it's poop. edit What the hell, we can say poop again? Now I'm ***ed. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.28 01:56:00 - [332] Originally by: Aklari tl;dr: It's a cheap tactic, but a game mechanic. Both sides need to get over themselves. Whether you are waving your EE Honda hundred-hand slap around all day, or making an uncorped alt for the sole purpose of harassing MR's, it is likely you are socially inept. And if you leak tears about it, well, go on shedding them, they are as tasty to me as anyone, even if I don't partake in the fun. Wow, you are an intellectual powerhouse! Hmmm... I'll just call everyone in the thread socially inept and I'll win the internet! Yeah me \o/
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.28 02:18:00 - [333] Originally by: Aklari The alternative is, that in the real world, John's likely to get punched in the nose. ...which would lead to police intervention (i.e., CONCORD) on John's behalf. Originally by: Aklari Or sued. ...which would lead to a judge's (CCP's) dismissal of the suit as frivolous. Originally by: Aklari You nor any litigant IRL can possibly think that 'collecting' the fruits of someone else's labour against their wishes should come without consequences? We are prepared to accept and deal with those consequences. We deal with them every day, in the form of threads like this and posts like yours, MRs who suicide us, MRs who are on the ball and manage to mop up a room before we get there, and so on and so forth. I've made a cursory glance through the thread but I can't seem to find any ninja salvagers complaining about any of those consequences. Originally by: Aklari It's not really necessary to rationalize immoral behavior in a game, unless you are trying to convince yourself. I'm not trying to portray ninja salvaging as moral or immoral; my position is that the practice is completely amoral, and that therefore subjective quantifiers like "right" or "wrong" do not apply. It seems to me that people are confusing the definitions of those two words with "what is most convenient for me" and "what is most inconvenient for me". Originally by: Aklari I honestly don't believe that there is a single actor in this failure of a melodramatic performance that truly believes ninja salvaging is not an act of piracy, be it sanctioned or not. You have the right to believe or not believe whatever you want.
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.28 02:38:00 - [334] Originally by: Roozter I don't KEEP getting 'robbed' (which is the proper description). It happened to me one time so far. I then adjusted (thanks for the suggestion). Then your troubles are over. Originally by: Roozter I am still here posting because I simply believe it is wrong and I am stubborn. Plus, there are other MR's out there who are also getting robbed and then slapped in the face by the CCP rule. The nasty little problem seems to be getting worse and it 'will' cause people to quit the game. And this is our cross to bear? I think not. If somebody who has spent so much time in the game and worked his skills up to the point where he can AFK level 4 missions has such a short handle that he ragequits EVE forever over wreck salvage, who's to say that leaving EVE isn't the best for that person? Originally by: Roozter I'm so sure the average MR can just jump in and spend a billion + to buy fit and insure a Marauder. Let's be realistic. Spare me such nonsense. That'd be a believable argument if I didn't run into MRs in Marauders all the time in Dodixie and other mission hubs. But believability aside, again, not every option will work for everyone, and it's not like having a Marauder is the only option. You still CAN sacrifice one of those highs for a salvage module. You still CAN bring friends to salvage for you. I suppose you could make an argument like "well not everyone has friends", but as sad as that may be, there's still the salvager module option. And if you don't have the skill to fit a salvager then what are you complaining about? Originally by: Roozter My main argument here is the fact that, in Eve, there is a place for everything. I choose to run missions in hi sec because it is relatively safe and I don't (didn't) have to keep that close of an eye on my rear view (local). That is until now. I not only have to watch out for the NPC I am fighting but I have to watch out for the free range salvager (and his cronies kicking it over in the next room waiting for the word) AND Concord on top of it if I decided to do something so bold and/or stupid as to attempt to fight for what is theoretically mine. So, in other words, the MR is the one getting ganked either way. You're upset because "now" (ostensibly being "when salvaging mechanics were released") there's no risk-free way to run missions. I can sympathize, considering that you'd probably been playing for such a long time without ever seeing anyone visiting your missions; but consider that in all that time, there was no salvage anyway - so it's not like you "can't make money the way you used to". On the contrary - now you can make either "more money than you used to", or "at least as much money as you used to", depending on how fast and cunning you are. You are free to completely ignore both the ninja and the wrecks, and pretend you're playing pre-Apocrypha, I suppose.
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.28 02:45:00 - [335] Originally by: Aklari Edited by: Aklari on 28/08/2009 00:26:33 Originally by: g0ggalor Its because CCP has stated that the person who blew up the ship has no rights to the wrecks. The sooner you accept that, the sooner the tears stop. Whatever CCP says, it is indeed an untruth, or an incomplete one at best, and we all know it. The MR has MORE rights to the ship than the random , no matter what CONCORD says. That is why this argument exists. With CONCORD, there are only 2 responses. Either you are Concordonked, or you are ignored. If there were gradiented responses, the issue would be moot. The fact is, when a rogue salvager takes loot that a MR intended on looting, he is aggressing that MR, whether the game mechanics recognize it or not. Most of the MR's I've seen post, angsty kiddies aside, recognize this is an intended game mechanic, as annoying as it can be. Whether to push MRs away from hub mission systems, or into lowsec, it is as CCP wants. It is amusing how the rogue salvagers take this to heart in such a manner as to incite such righteous conviction that they, Rogue Salvager Extraordinaire have been entrusted by The Man Himself to free the poor salvaged loot from the grubby, unworthy hands of the dirge of the Sansa Nation, the Level 4 Mission Runner. tl;dr: It's a cheap tactic, but a game mechanic. Both sides need to get over themselves. Whether you are waving your EE Honda hundred-hand slap around all day, or making an uncorped alt for the sole purpose of harassing MR's, it is likely you are socially inept. And if you leak tears about it, well, go on shedding them, they are as tasty to me as anyone, even if I don't partake in the fun. tldr is tl;dr; Everyone should cry moar. EDIT: highly amused that CCP blocks a word that I wouldn't have possibly imagined a swear word.
Roozter	Posted - 2009.08.28 04:36:00 - [336] Edited by: Roozter on 28/08/2009 04:42:06 Originally by: Mel Lifera Edited by: Mel Lifera on 28/08/2009 02:46:43 Originally by: Aklari Whatever CCP says, it is indeed an untruth, or an incomplete one at best, and we all know it. The MR has MORE rights to the ship than the random , no matter what CONCORD says. Whatever CCP says is the only thing that matters, period. Unless they said you will now be flagged when you take something that don't belong to you. Then you would not agree with them, right? Maybe CCP should come out and play more often and listen to the happiness that this is causing all across hi sec. I have characters in 2 different player corps and 2 in non player corps all in different areas of space and I am hearing it almost constantly now. From the looks of things in this thread, there is one corp whose members seem to be trying to run a filibuster on this issue and acting as if there are only a small percentage of those who oppose. This is not the case. The majority of Eve players know and agree that this is a legitimate problem. Of course I am referring to the hi sec pilots. I can't say for sure what the others feel about it because I am only seeing 'mainly' one corp pushing the issue. I see it in local and I see/hear it in corp channels. There are reasons why we don't come out to low/null sec to try to carve a niche for ourselves and, for some of us, it is not because we are afraid of an altercation. It is because we like to have at least some part of space available to us to carry out our mundane struggle for isk and standings without having the scavengers hanging on our heat signature with their tongues wagging waiting to benefit from our efforts. I don't care what kind of jargon you use to try to paint a pretty picture of a freeloading/ganker/griefer/thief, it can't be done. CCP could simply be fair about it and let us attack the intruder without Concord intervention and that would clear the air a bit. At least we could have the law (kinda' sorta') on our side for a change when it comes to pirates (that is what you guys are) and we could run missions and kill rats of all sorts. Or get killed by someone other than our own police force, which would probably be a valuable learning experience, for me at least. A lot of you (most of you) appear to be pretty intelligent (not that I am an authority on intelligent people) and are well aware of what is and is not right. You just refuse to voice it for whatever reasons. Maybe it's an alter ego issue. Maybe it's just the isk. Or you just enjoy being what you are in game, sanctioned hi sec pirates.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.28 05:25:00 - [337] Originally by: Roozter Edited by: Roozter on 28/08/2009 04:42:06 Originally by: Mel Lifera Edited by: Mel Lifera on 28/08/2009 02:46:43 Originally by: Aklari Whatever CCP says, it is indeed an untruth, or an incomplete one at best, and we all know it. The MR has MORE rights to the ship than the random , no matter what CONCORD says. Whatever CCP says is the only thing that matters, period. Unless they said you will now be flagged when you take something that don't belong to you. Then you would not agree with them, right? But what about taking something that belongs to no one?
Conrad Lionhart Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.28 07:02:00 - [338] I agree that ninja salvaging is unethical. Therefore I will do what others have done, and shoot wrecks before the ninjas get to them. My Blog: http://www.brugamers.com/index.php?blog=43
Tesh Sevateem Rat Pack Renegades	Posted - 2009.08.28 08:34:00 - [339] Originally by: g0ggalor Its because CCP has stated that the person who blew up the ship has no rights to the wrecks. The sooner you accept that, the sooner the tears stop. Originally by: Mel Lifera Whatever CCP says is the only thing that matters, period. I'm not crying. Like I said, this whole "ninja salvage" thing has never bothered me - not once. I'm talking about what's right and what's not. Consider it taking a side in an argument in which I have no personal interest. Such as the conflict in Palestine, for instance. The only tears I could be crying, would be for the fact that so many people here seem to consider a forum primarily a place to pat each others' backs while sucking up to their master, instead of realizing a forum is in fact the best place to debate whether the rules the master has set down are in fact fair.
Arthamel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.08.28 09:16:00 - [340] All the people complaining about wrecks being neutral are not aware of that CCP did it to protect them. You really think that if salvaging would give you kill rights pirates would stop? Then you're making a mistake. They will. They wont care. You shoot back, they come in gank ships, kill you, call support if needed. Then what? You would start crying "NERF SCANNING, WHY CAN THEY SEE ME IN MY MISSION?!!!11@2oneonetwo". The way it is now protects both parties, salvagers and missioners. You want to strip yourself of last defence CCP gave you?
Conrad Lionhart Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.28 09:26:00 - [341] Originally by: Arthamel All the people complaining about wrecks being neutral are not aware of that CCP did it to protect them. You really think that if salvaging would give you kill rights pirates would stop? Then you're making a mistake. They will. They wont care. You shoot back, they come in gank ships, kill you, call support if needed. Then what? You would start crying "NERF SCANNING, WHY CAN THEY SEE ME IN MY MISSION?!!!11@2oneonetwo". The way it is now protects both parties, salvagers and missioners. You want to strip yourself of last defence CCP gave you? That would be like saying to protect people who eject containers, they should make containers neutral so that they won't have the chance to fire at the thieves who steal them, which would then lead to an all-out fight. That really doesn't make sense. My Blog: http://www.brugamers.com/index.php?blog=43
Arthamel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.08.28 09:33:00 - [342] Originally by: Conrad Lionhart Originally by: Arthamel All the people complaining about wrecks being neutral are not aware of that CCP did it to protect them. You really think that if salvaging would give you kill rights pirates would stop? Then you're making a mistake. They will. They wont care. You shoot back, they come in gank ships, kill you, call support if needed. Then what? You would start crying "NERF SCANNING, WHY CAN THEY SEE ME IN MY MISSION?!!!11@2oneonetwo". The way it is now protects both parties, salvagers and missioners. You want to strip yourself of last defence CCP gave you? That would be like saying to protect people who eject containers, they should make containers neutral so that they won't have the chance to fire at the thieves who steal them, which would then lead to an all-out fight. That really doesn't make sense. This really don't make sense :P Containers contain () or can contain valuable loot, way more valuable than wreck. Its obvious that player you stole container with xx or xxx mil in loot will and would want to shoot you, than some newbie whose small mission generic wreck you salvaged shoots you out of frustration or just because you blink.
Conrad Lionhart Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.28 09:40:00 - [343] Edited by: Conrad Lionhart on 28/08/2009 09:40:18 Originally by: Arthamel Containers contain () or can contain valuable loot, way more valuable than wreck. Thread over. My Blog: http://www.brugamers.com/index.php?blog=43
Arthamel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.08.28 09:44:00 - [344] Originally by: Conrad Lionhart Edited by: Conrad Lionhart on 28/08/2009 09:40:18 Originally by: Arthamel Containers contain () or can contain valuable loot, way more valuable than wreck. Thread over. Well I don't really get your point here, maybe coz of my poor english grammar etc understanding :) If I made such mistake (grammar I mean) just point it out, running away with those words of yours is pretty... amusing tbh
B Cassidy	Posted - 2009.08.28 10:05:00 - [345] Edited by: B Cassidy on 28/08/2009 10:05:59 Perhaps my post here will explain this a bit better id like to gather some opinions on it frankly as I have pondered this situation for some time now Logical Post attempting to explain ninja salvaging
Conrad Lionhart Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.28 10:21:00 - [346] Edited by: Conrad Lionhart on 28/08/2009 10:25:09 Edited by: Conrad Lionhart on 28/08/2009 10:24:12 Good post Cassidy, definitely more civilized than some of the drivel common on the Internet. But there's still the matter of why salvaging is not considered a criminal act, yet stealing the contents in the same wreck is. The logic is that the loot also doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the rat that you downed. So the loot should belong to whoever gets it first. Yet that's not the case, the loot belongs to whoever killed the rat. But the wreck doesn't belong to whoever killed the rat? Why? Edit: Your post explains why ninja-salvaging is here to stay, just as how it is possible to grief or attack miners, or even pod-kill people. It's part of the open-ended PvP nature of the sandbox. I don't think anyone is disputing that. But I think the bigger issue here is why ninja-salvaging doesn't suffer in-game consequences like stealing the container that contains your ore. My Blog: http://www.brugamers.com/index.php?blog=43
B Cassidy	Posted - 2009.08.28 10:38:00 - [347] Edited by: B Cassidy on 28/08/2009 10:42:37 Ah the core issue then is the disparity between the loot and the wreck. I can see why the disparity exists. See CCP wants to reward your for the risk you took facing the NPCS. They give you a bit of ammo, or a module or two etc. But ultimately you dont have to skill anything beyond the combative skills to shoot down that rat to obtain said loot. However to salvage a wreck you must train salvage. You the must purchase the module etc. It requires an extra step for your character. This extra step is the difference maker. You could technically salvage and not have to train any combative skills. Fly around belt to belt and salvage the npcs that are shot down therein. Can you earn loot without risking your ship against npcs? The answer here is no. Now ill anticipate the counter argument that well I am technically risking my ship for salvage when I shoot the rat to make the wreck. However simply put if you have no salvaging skill you cant salvage it any way. Thus it is not entitled to you unless you possess this skill. This is why its a free for all. In essence the wreck belongs first who ever has the skill to salvage from it and second to whomever salvages it first.
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.08.28 11:18:00 - [348] Originally by: Mel Lifera ...which would lead to police intervention (i.e., CONCORD) on John's behalf. Major misperception there.... CONCORD != Police CONCORD's only mission is to punish unlawful attacks. Everything else is the players responsibility. CONCORD is NOT a police force! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.08.28 11:24:00 - [349] Edited by: Kerfira on 28/08/2009 11:26:06 Originally by: Conrad Lionhart But I think the bigger issue here is why ninja-salvaging doesn't suffer in-game consequences like stealing the container that contains your ore. Here ya' go! Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to increase high-sec mission grinding [income] any further. Basically salvage is NOT intended as an additional income for mission runners (or ratters). It stands to reason then that they shouldn't get special privileges. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Roozter	Posted - 2009.08.28 11:48:00 - [350] Originally by: Arthamel All the people complaining about wrecks being neutral are not aware of that CCP did it to protect them. You really think that if salvaging would give you kill rights pirates would stop? Then you're making a mistake. They will. They wont care. You shoot back, they come in gank ships, kill you, call support if needed. Then what? You would start crying "NERF SCANNING, WHY CAN THEY SEE ME IN MY MISSION?!!!11@2oneonetwo". The way it is now protects both parties, salvagers and missioners. You want to strip yourself of last defence CCP gave you? With all due respect, you are probably wrong about that. If the freelaoder is (appropriately) flagged for coming into your mission and stealing from your mission then you are given the green to make the attempt at fighting for what is yours without the space cops blowing you away. I do believe that this would be a deterrent. I would almost guarantee it. What makes you 'automatically' think that the MR will lose the fight? MR's have support to call in as well. If they were (appropriately) flagged, I am positive that there would be much more corp fleet mission ops going out and having our sanctioned fun as well. As we are typing in this forum, there are corps debating from within about how to protect what we create from our missions without Concord killing us in the process. Give me a break, protecting both sides? Please explain that to me. There is only one side being protected from where I stand. This has nothing to do with salvage skills. The salvage skill is a prerequisite of any serious mission runner just like a rail/missile launcher or a shield/armor hardener. It is a part of your skill set as a mission runner. I don't think I have ever even talked to another MR who does not have the salvage skill. The point of this whole mess is that we feel that we should have the right to fight for our mission rewards without Concord holding the pirates hand while he takes it. .
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.08.28 11:56:00 - [351] Edited by: Kerfira on 28/08/2009 12:02:44 Originally by: Roozter If the freelaoder is (appropriately) flagged for coming into your mission and stealing from your mission then you are given the green to make the attempt at fighting for what is yours without the space cops blowing you away. I do believe that this would be a deterrent. I would almost guarantee it. That is how it IS today! What are you complaining about? Whenever a thief comes into your mission space and steals what is yours, he IS flagged and you can shoot him! Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Originally by: CCP Prism X ...If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding... In essence, your whine is: Whaa!! CCP isn't giving the already best profession in EVE even MORE rewards! Whaa!! It's not fair other professions should also have rewards! Whaaaaaa!!! Pretty pathetic to be completely honest.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Stealnutz Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.28 12:02:00 - [352] Originally by: Roozter The point of this whole mess is that we feel that we should have the right to fight for our mission rewards without Concord holding the pirates hand while he takes it. . Bolded the important part - salvage is not part of your mission reward.
Arthamel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.08.28 12:24:00 - [353] Originally by: Roozter The way it is now protects both parties, salvagers and missioners. You want to strip yourself of last defence CCP gave you? With all due respect, you are probably wrong about that. If the freelaoder is (appropriately) flagged for coming into your mission and stealing from your mission then you are given the green to make the attempt at fighting for what is yours without the space cops blowing you away. I do believe that this would be a deterrent. I would almost guarantee it. What makes you 'automatically' think that the MR will lose the fight? MR's have support to call in as well. If they were (appropriately) flagged, I am positive that there would be much more corp fleet mission ops going out and having our sanctioned fun as well. As we are typing in this forum, there are corps debating from within about how to protect what we create from our missions without Concord killing us in the process. Give me a break, protecting both sides? Please explain that to me. There is only one side being protected from where I stand. This has nothing to do with salvage skills. The salvage skill is a prerequisite of any serious mission runner just like a rail/missile launcher or a shield/armor hardener. It is a part of your skill set as a mission runner. I don't think I have ever even talked to another MR who does not have the salvage skill. The point of this whole mess is that we feel that we should have the right to fight for our mission rewards without Concord holding the pirates hand while he takes it. . Sure he CAN do it, mission runner I mean, but - how many tears of ninja you've ever seen? Or killmails with "ninja pwnd by carebears ambush". I've heard about ambushes players sometimes do, but never encountered one nor met person who suffered from one. Ninjas are small % of players compared to carebears, and its small chance that he'll come to your mission - ambushing em might be a problem, would take time etc... No point.
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.08.28 13:13:00 - [354] Originally by: Bazuka So every nooblet learns this and instead of playing the game they just go salvage wrecks and miss on so many better features and options this game offers. How is this "working as intended"again? Typical carebear missioner thinking that he knows what is better for everyone in Eve. I actually gave up mission running out of sheer boredom and joined suddenly ninjas. I learned scanning and aggression mechanics, the latter being something very important that many players still don't understand after years of playing and i managed to earn a reasonable, but MODEST income whilst I was doing it. This seems working as intended to me, I am fairly certain CCP would like to ENCOURAGE players to explore aspects of the game besides mission running, despite the fact you think it is the be all end all. BTW, @ Kahega and the rest of SN, thx again for my "graduation" to actually playing this game properly ...keep up the good work guys I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
Roozter	Posted - 2009.08.28 13:41:00 - [355] I would gladly devote some extra time to ambush the freeloader an/or group of freeloaders. I promise you that, if they were (appropriately) flagged, it would make it much more interesting AND rewarding to the MR and/or his corp. Just because mission running can be a lucrative profession don't mean that you should share the rewards if you are sitting on your duff waiting until he creates it. Go and earn your own way, we do. Have some dignity, get out of the welfare line. You can say I am whining or crying all you want. I'm debating an important issue. What are you doing? You are trying to justify sanctioned freeloading and thievery. I would like to see how many people continue to do it if they were (appropriately) flagged. Just think of how many nice T2 mods you guys could have by blowing up our ships. Yeah, right. There are guys AND girls in both my corps whose alts are hard core pvpers. They would love to plan ambushes to take out the freeloaders. These are real pvpers not hyenas. Not thieves. Trying to make the argument that (salvage) is not the rightful property of the pilot who created it is pretty lame no matter what the CCP rule is. What about the Miner who puts the stuff in a can until his hauler gets there to pick it up? I suppose you think you have the rights to that too? What about the guy who plays the market and has his stuff hauled hither and yon, is that your stuff too? He didn't create it, he just purchased it. Stud up and create your own rewards. And don't cry when CCP finally lets us fight for our property. We will probably rarely see you. .
Tesh Sevateem Rat Pack Renegades	Posted - 2009.08.28 13:41:00 - [356] I find it peculiar that so many people use this argument: A: "I don't think it's fair that the rules are like this." B: "Well, too bad because those are the rules!" It's completely missing the point. Besides, is there a "proper" way to play this game? Smoking doesn't make you cool, you know.
THE L0CK	Posted - 2009.08.28 14:02:00 - [357] Somebody get me some sandbags, They be predicting flash floods from the amount of tears in this thread! Originally by: Whitehound If I think, but I do not.
HottyChick	Posted - 2009.08.28 14:05:00 - [358] Originally by: Zhebais CCP has spoken. Salvage is not stealing. ItÆs not an exploit. ItÆs an intended mini-profession: CCP Mitnal: ôOur policy on this is extremely clearà Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing.ö GM Faolchu: ôThis is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit.ö Senior GM Ytterbium: ôPlayers are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will à and doing so is not considered as an exploit.ö Software Engineer CCP Prism X: ôBefore the salvage enters those containers [your cargo-hold / hangar] it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence itÆs not stealing.ö YES we can read wat ccp said but how would you feel if you went to the shop paid for bottle of spirit/milk ect and I took it saying ''oh it wasnt in ur bag so it wasnt urs'' and the Police would poke you saying ''yea shes right if not in ur bag it isnt urs'' If u kill a boar its urs, If you catch fish its urs so why the hell if you kill rat in eve its wrecks isnt urs? Its ur time u spend to kill it and ur ammo/mods ect so it is freaking urs lol. Also is it so hard to ''cloak''(make invisible to probes in high sec) the mission runner from the moment he/she enter the mission spot to the moment the mission is completed? Im sure it is possible. And how the hell can anyone call it profession lol, since when stealing is profession? Its crime as far as I know.
Tesh Sevateem Rat Pack Renegades	Posted - 2009.08.28 14:06:00 - [359] Originally by: THE L0CK Somebody get me some sandbags, They be predicting flash floods from the amount of tears in this thread! It must be tears of joy, due to the awe-inspiring display of cerebral activity required to make such prophetic predictions.
HottyChick	Posted - 2009.08.28 14:07:00 - [360] Originally by: THE L0CK Somebody get me some sandbags, They be predicting flash floods from the amount of tears in this thread! Whats happened to ur face?

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