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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.08.10 08:10:00 -
[1]
As is well known it's next to useless to insure T2 ships as their value is much higher than the insurance can handle.
I propose to add a new calculation at DT to fix this problem. For each ship type in game, every downtime a normal distribution over their price in all regions is calculated. The top value of this distribution is then used as base price of the ship to base insurance values on the following day.
If it's too much to do each DT, just do it once a week or something like that.
Then again I guess one could see this as a feature and not a problem as it makes T2 ships hurt harder to lose. Oh well, comments?
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.10 09:06:00 -
[2]
so... you enjoy blowing up other people and making them lose isk, but don't like losing any of your own?
I'd be damn ticked if someone I evaporated just came back in a new ship with no set backs, why shoot them in the first place?
you know how many times people have proposed insurance for modules too? HEY! FREE STRAT CRUISERS AND OFFICER MODS FOR EVERYONE!
if you don't like losing T2 ships, you can a) get better at flying them, or b) don't fly them
true story Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
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Opt1mu5Pr1m3
Gallente 5ER3NITY
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Posted - 2009.08.10 09:24:00 -
[3]
Have to agree with the OP to a certain extent, T2 ships (and i beleive faction ships), you pretty much only get back the T1 variants value.
There should be a better insurance return for said ship if you loose it, if that means a high insurance premium, then fair enough.
As for modules, i suppose you could get insurance back from them, but that would mean insuring each module too.
Daz aka Opt1mu5Pr1m3
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.08.10 10:34:00 -
[4]
I don't know what that troll is on...
I'm just suggesting a method of how to decide how much an insurance should cost and how much it should return for a T2 ship (or as is suggested faction ships and other ships that have a higher "real" value than "on paper" value).
Of course if you insure a HAC that costs as much as a battleship the insurance will also costs as much as a battleship insurance.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.10 11:38:00 -
[5]
They should even lower the base insurance on T1 ships, it is now just a joke to lose one. So no to an increased payout for T2 ships, at least losing a T2 ship stings. So if you can't live with that then don't fly them. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.08.10 13:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva They should even lower the base insurance on T1 ships, it is now just a joke to lose one. So no to an increased payout for T2 ships, at least losing a T2 ship stings. So if you can't live with that then don't fly them.
What about lowering T1 a bit and raising T2 a bit? that way no one is happy
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:07:00 -
[7]
Loss in EVE should hurt. More than it does currently. T2 of course more than T1.
IMHO, the T1 insurance should only give 80% max. T2 is fine as is. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If you know you're gonny lose your ship within 3 months, you still get some out of it.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.08.10 15:10:00 -
[8]
Loss in EVE should hurt. More than it does currently. T2 of course more than T1.
IMHO, the T1 insurance should only give 80% max. T2 is fine as is. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If you know you're gonny lose your ship within 3 months, you still get some out of it.
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2009.08.10 16:10:00 -
[9]
Better insurance would help the T2 market on a huge scale . People spent the time on the skills and yet they have to park their T2 Hacs ,Hics and Recons when they get low on isk. Just 50% recovery of isk would be huge for getting those replacements back in the sky (space).I agree that losing a T2 ship should hurt , but I dont see any downside to having better insurance .
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2009.08.10 17:31:00 -
[10]
Speaking as someone who regularly flies T2 ships, there's nothing wrong with the insurance. Apart from anything else, it stops you running into combat in an expensive ship with no realistic hope of winning. It teaches you to pick your fights carefully.
Anothe point is that your proposed system is really open to exploitation. For example, you build a Deimos, put up a sell order for 2Billion ISK, buy it with your alt, rinse and repeat a few dozen times, the next day that deimos is worth massively more on insurance than it should be. Then you buy as many Deimoses as possible, and get self destruct them all for the insurance. It's a licence to print ISK.
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Lucas Avidius
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.08.11 02:46:00 -
[11]
Insurance in the game in general needs to work more like insurance in the real world works.
In other words: -It shouldn't pay out if you are currently criminally flagged (Used in the commission of a crime) -It shouldn't pay out if you are at war and the destroying party was a war target (what insurance company would insure something against something that can legally destroy it?) -It shouldn't pay out in 0.0 (it's legal to shoot everything there). -It shouldn't pay out on self destruct.
-It SHOULD pay out when you are suicide ganked. -It SHOULD pay closer to fair market value. -The cost of insuring should be based on real world factors including statistics showing how often stuff gets blown up, how much of that blown up stuff deserved an insurance payout, and how often your personal stuff is blown up. -It should be possible to renew insurance after the policy expires for a reduced rate.
Insurance should act as a real isk sink, and the insurance in game should be designed to turn a profit, just as real insurance companies do.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2009.08.11 06:27:00 -
[12]
i think the current system is just fine.
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2009.08.11 11:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lucas Avidius Insurance in the game in general needs to work more like insurance in the real world works.
In other words: -It shouldn't pay out if you are currently criminally flagged (Used in the commission of a crime) -It shouldn't pay out if you are at war and the destroying party was a war target (what insurance company would insure something against something that can legally destroy it?) -It shouldn't pay out in 0.0 (it's legal to shoot everything there). -It shouldn't pay out on self destruct.
-It SHOULD pay out when you are suicide ganked. -It SHOULD pay closer to fair market value. -The cost of insuring should be based on real world factors including statistics showing how often stuff gets blown up, how much of that blown up stuff deserved an insurance payout, and how often your personal stuff is blown up. -It should be possible to renew insurance after the policy expires for a reduced rate.
Insurance should act as a real isk sink, and the insurance in game should be designed to turn a profit, just as real insurance companies do.
I like this idea, I've thought about something like this many times myself.
I wonder if the mechanics of EVE would allow a player corp to work like an insurance company? Are there ways to determine without a doubt under what circumstances a ship was destroyed for a third party? Or even if it actually was destroyed and it's not just an insurance fraud?
It would be fun to run such a corp. It could offer insurance such as it works in the real world: a small monthly fee instead of a one time fee for 3 month. The more you get blown up, the more you'll have to pay each month. And you could insure the whole value of your ship, not just the hull. |
ropnes
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:08:00 -
[14]
STOP COMPARING EVE INSURANCE TO REAL LIFE INSURANCE
Insurance is a mechanic created to lessen the loss of T1 ships. Just because it's called insurance doesn't mean it's comparable to real life insurance. The name is only there for familiarity's sake.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lucas Avidius -It shouldn't pay out if you are at war and the destroying party was a war target (what insurance company would insure something against something that can legally destroy it?)
So give more power to a griefing corp? No thanks, all the others I can live with, especialy criminally flagged and self destruct. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
Ichiro Sanchas
Caldari Dark Star Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.11 14:46:00 -
[16]
Oh, wow, what a really good idea, let's put suicide griefers in T2 ships. That's really good thinki--
FAIL.
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Trebor DeCaldar
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.11 17:23:00 -
[17]
Let's remove insurance completely... they give you a free rookie ship
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Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.11 17:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar Let's remove insurance completely... they give you a free rookie ship
I don't feel it should be removed completely, but I support lessening T1 insurance to 50% or less. It might help reduce the T1 BS blobs and suicide ganking (come on carebears, spam this issue like you spam ninja salvaging).
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.08.11 18:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Karentaki
Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar Let's remove insurance completely... they give you a free rookie ship
I don't feel it should be removed completely, but I support lessening T1 insurance to 50% or less. It might help reduce the T1 BS blobs and suicide ganking (come on carebears, spam this issue like you spam ninja salvaging).
Cutting it by 50% won't change anything, after 9-12 months prices will be again just barely over insurance line. Only way to fix insurance is to remove it altogether. Do not discuss moderation in your signature. Zymurgist |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.11 18:52:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Daedalus II
I propose to add a new calculation at DT to fix this problem. For each ship type in game, every downtime a normal distribution over their price in all regions is calculated. The top value of this distribution is then used as base price of the ship to base insurance values on the following day.
Unsure what you mean with "normal" distribution and how it is determined.
If you mean this wiki/Normal_distribution it will be far to easy to manipulate the insurance values.
Find a region with no sell orders for one model of T2 ship, buy all the low cost ships of that model across EVE, put that ship on sale on that region for at inflated price and buy it, then wait for DT and insurance payout increase beyond manufacturing cost + insurance (you use the highest average, so as you get the only sale in the aforementioned region you get that as the average), self destruct EOS (or whatever low sale ship you used) getting 10 billions for every ship. Use the isk to buy more ships and repeat.
Great riches from thin air.
That why EVE will never use averages as ship insurance values. Too easy to manipulate.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.08.11 19:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lucas Avidius Insurance in the game in general needs to work more like insurance in the real world works.
In other words: -It shouldn't pay out if you are currently criminally flagged (Used in the commission of a crime) -It shouldn't pay out if you are at war and the destroying party was a war target (what insurance company would insure something against something that can legally destroy it?) -It shouldn't pay out in 0.0 (it's legal to shoot everything there). -It shouldn't pay out on self destruct.
-It SHOULD pay out when you are suicide ganked. -It SHOULD pay closer to fair market value. -The cost of insuring should be based on real world factors including statistics showing how often stuff gets blown up, how much of that blown up stuff deserved an insurance payout, and how often your personal stuff is blown up. -It should be possible to renew insurance after the policy expires for a reduced rate.
Insurance should act as a real isk sink, and the insurance in game should be designed to turn a profit, just as real insurance companies do.
Pretty much this.
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2009.08.11 19:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: RavenPaine on 11/08/2009 19:38:09
Originally by: ropnes STOP COMPARING EVE INSURANCE TO REAL LIFE INSURANCE
Insurance is a mechanic created to lessen the loss of T1 ships. Just because it's called insurance doesn't mean it's comparable to real life insurance. The name is only there for familiarity's sake.
So you want some aspects of the game (Losing the ship) to be like real life . But you dont want the rest of the game to be like RL ? You want the afterburner to work exactly as its supposed to , But not the insurance ? You expaect the Clone insurance to flawless , But not the ship insurance ?
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Rawbin Hood
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.08.11 19:54:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Rawbin Hood on 11/08/2009 19:56:25
Originally by: Lucas Avidius
-It shouldn't pay out if you are currently criminally flagged
agreed
Originally by: Lucas Avidius
-It shouldn't pay out if you are at war and the destroying party was a war target -It shouldn't pay out in 0.0 (it's legal to shoot everything there).
disagree
Originally by: Lucas Avidius
-It shouldn't pay out on self destruct.
agreed
Originally by: Lucas Avidius
-It SHOULD pay out when you are suicide ganked. -It SHOULD pay closer to fair market value. -The cost of insuring should be based on real world factors including statistics showing how often stuff gets blown up, how much of that blown up stuff deserved an insurance payout, and how often your personal stuff is blown up. -It should be possible to renew insurance after the policy expires for a reduced rate.
Insurance should act as a real isk sink, and the insurance in game should be designed to turn a profit, just as real insurance companies do.
well i don't use insurance as much as i should, but, if i could turn a profit from it i wouldn't sell any of my ships on market.
also Originally by: ropnes STOP COMPARING EVE INSURANCE TO REAL LIFE INSURANCE
Insurance is a mechanic created to lessen the loss of T1 ships. Just because it's called insurance doesn't mean it's comparable to real life insurance. The name is only there for familiarity's sake.
yeah ccp more honour then RL insurance douches...
◄Brutor► The Movement Because the human race can do better as a whole (despite these forums, they don't count) |
ropnes
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Posted - 2009.08.12 00:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RavenPaine Edited by: RavenPaine on 11/08/2009 19:38:09
Originally by: ropnes STOP COMPARING EVE INSURANCE TO REAL LIFE INSURANCE
Insurance is a mechanic created to lessen the loss of T1 ships. Just because it's called insurance doesn't mean it's comparable to real life insurance. The name is only there for familiarity's sake.
So you want some aspects of the game (Losing the ship) to be like real life . But you dont want the rest of the game to be like RL ? You want the afterburner to work exactly as its supposed to , But not the insurance ? You expaect the Clone insurance to flawless , But not the ship insurance ?
The design decisions concerning afterburners in EVE were hardly made to achieve realism. Guess what, afterburners in EVE aren't exactly like afterburners in real life, and they shouldn't be. They should be whatever the game balance dictates. In real life you can't use armor repair systems to recover damage, in real life you don't get more sales by undercutting someone by 0.01 [currency]. EVE isn't like RL because it's a game and trying to justify game mechanics with realism is hilariously stupid
You don't want suicide gankers to get insurance payouts for game balance reasons and then you try to justify it with arguments about real life insurance. The arguments are a post-construction. You've already decided what you think and come up with arguments to justify it afterwards
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