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Dust 514 Feeding EVE Sov mechanics

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NimBetu Cayal	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:10:00 - [1] How will this affect the game. Vid Linky Will this better or destroy the game EVE-Online?? Input please? (please move the thread if i posted in the wrong place
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:40:00 - [2] nice Halo inspired game! seem like fun! will it affect Eve gameplay?
ark maphar	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:43:00 - [3] if it does, it will only affect eve people that have consoles, no pc or mac version
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:51:00 - [4] Well the eve universe all fits together, so it will affect all even if you play it on consol, since its still just one universe...
NimBetu Cayal	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:53:00 - [5] The idea is the the battle on the planned. will dictate the Sov in EVE. So if i get "my" tropes to control a planet. and they get enough planets under control in one solar system. i will get sov for my alliance. Sp Pos's and Fleets will not be the only thing dictating who has sov in a solar system.
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:55:00 - [6] For 0.0 and low sec right?
NimBetu Cayal	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Mad Maulkin For 0.0 and low sec right? 0.0 only i belive. Not NPC and Low-sec
Mad Maulkin	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:57:00 - [8] hm, interesting
Total Disaster Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:58:00 - [9] Edited by: Total Disaster on 18/08/2009 13:58:43 so basically we can start dismantling all our POS because a FPS alliance of 13 years old hyperactive kiddos gonna own us all?
Atropos Kahn Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Kahora Catori	Posted - 2009.08.18 13:59:00 - [10] He said it will be just a COMPONENT of SOV... not SOV itself... I think this game is a fantastic idea...
NimBetu Cayal	Posted - 2009.08.18 14:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Atropos Kahn He said it will be just a COMPONENT of SOV... not SOV itself... I think this game is a fantastic idea... Correct. I'm not sure what i feel about it. It is an interesting idea from CCP. But will it ruin the efforts and how we like the game. Not sure.
theZJ Caldari Suicidal Trainingscamp	Posted - 2009.08.18 14:28:00 - [12] Sometimes it is really interesting how different General Discussion is compared with Features and Ideas... when there is flame, here you only see skepticism... But hell, if they only would not make it console only I would buy it a million times. But seriously... this is the wrong way. I don't want to buy a console just in order to play that game, and I DONT want to be excluded from important aspects of gameplay and immersion.
Tarnia Xavian Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.08.18 14:56:00 - [13] There's no reason to think that the new sov and game mechanics won't require aspects available from both platforms. That is, a SOLELY console-based alliance will need help from a PC-based alliance/group in order to grow and prosper. This is good for the future of EvE if they can balance it. Based on their past work, though, CCP should be able to pull that off. GG CCP, and good luck with your efforts. I WANT to play EvE for another 5+ years.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.08.18 15:04:00 - [14] No we as the godly space capsuleers we are direct thier poor little souls to die for us on the ground where we wont dirty our own hands in and if it all goes bad nuke it from orbit. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 29JUL09
Brolly Caldari Caldari State Inc. Deathadder Coalition	Posted - 2009.08.18 15:25:00 - [15] Can't wait to see what this will actually entail, it's amazing that so much can be said in general discussion, yet no actual substance or hardly anything with a touch of intelligence :'( Anyhoo's, having an Xbox I think it's a great idea because * I love the eve universe * My PC is great, but it's not comfortable and it's anti social * I get to explore eve in first person perspective * I can get involved with alliances without the tedium and gate camps Downside * Hope I don't have to pay another ú15 a month Granted, there will be a lot of the young vocal minority, but look at General discussion and the goons, eve already has it's cesspools and it's player base is far from perfect and the most mature/intelligent of MMO's. I wonder if alliances will hire soldiers, if that isk will be used for purchasing equipment. Dust could be quite an amazing piece of gaming history, I really look forward to seeing and hearing more.
Grumples McGee	Posted - 2009.08.18 15:26:00 - [16] I love it. They aren't looking for EVE players to quit and go to the console, they're looking to bring in a completely new audience in addition to the current EVE players. Looks to me like POS will probably still have a major influence on sovereignty, while DUST involves something completely new: fighting over planets. You know, those giant useless things every system already has. I'd always hoped that they could somehow incorporate a planetary land war into the game, I just didn't imagine they ever actually would. The only question I have is what happens when all the carebear 0.0 corps have so many people set to blue that no big SOV battles are even happening? What will the DUST players fight over if the EVE players are too busy mining tritanium and gatecamping to actually go fight real wars?
Zastrow J	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:23:00 - [17] I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation.
Shepard Book Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:26:00 - [18] I doubt the console side is going to have the largest percentage when it comes to determining the Sov of systems.
Reverand Pastor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:29:00 - [19] Great idea. It brings another element to the game that should have been done a long time ago.Having it console base opens up the pc version to an entire new fanbase that will no doubt have bleedover. Not to mention the majority of us already have xbox's and ps3 already so it seems like a good move.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:31:00 - [20] The only way it would work would be for each and every FPS map to be identical. All FPS games currently always end up being played on the "fun" maps so if say the planets in Stain are more fun to play than others what happens to everything outside Stain? What I hope they do is let Eve decide sovereignty and perhaps let the FPS nooblets add flavour in the form of lower costs, longer range jump bridges etc. Hopefully they will mesh entirely down the road so that you approach in ship and drop to surface using whatever ambulation thingie they come up with. Regardless, it will end up changing Eve as a space-opera game.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried?
Zangert Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:36:00 - [22] Could be interesting, so many questions but at the least it could be a good ISK sink. Wonder if cyno jamming will inhibit troop deployment
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Zangert Could be interesting, so many questions but at the least it could be a good ISK sink. Wonder if cyno jamming will inhibit troop deployment Black Ops them in!!!!!
Dire Radiant	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:41:00 - [24] Sounds like a massive chance to grief if we can Nuke the Planet from Orbit. Its the only way to be sure.
NimBetu Cayal	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Dire Radiant Sounds like a massive chance to grief if we can Nuke the Planet from Orbit. Its the only way to be sure. No.. The game play will be 100% seperated. Just the console game will send some info to the eve server. How controls wat panet and that will help determine who holds sov
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:46:00 - [26] If the actions of an unrelated game affect the workings of this one, you're purely going to lose membership here. Will need to see how its implemented, but sounds like a great opportunity for CCP to really shoot themselves in the foot.
Pasen Haas Easter Corporation Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:46:00 - [27] Sounds like a massive scam to squeeze more money out of 0.0 players. Anyone who holds sov or ever wants to will have to play this - and in a fight between 2 alliances, consider what would happen if one of them just pays mercs while the other both pays mercs and joins the FPS fight themselves. The big alliances will be forced to maintain a large portion of their membership's subscriptions to Dust so that they can keep control of their sovereign space, or else they risk losing it. Congratz, CCP, on this cynical ploy to make money. You do well. Personally I hope this particular mechanic never sees the light of day.
Reverand Pastor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:48:00 - [28] Originally by: Dire Radiant Sounds like a massive chance to grief if we can Nuke the Planet from Orbit. Its the only way to be sure. The scope of interaction between space and planet is unknown. Perhaps a pos style defense since with "mods" etc can be installed. Would be epic to have two opposing sides meet at a planet with cap fleets. One side has the aid of plent defense the other escorting troop transports to the surface. This will either be a welp or change gaming forever.
Zitus	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:53:00 - [29] As some one who owns a console and also plays FPS games, this actually looks REALLY good. The visuals are stunning in the preview and if they pull it off right, it could be a sweet tie in. I think this is the first time in history that an online Console game interacted directly with an Online Computer game. Its definitely an announcement that is going to shape the world of gaming. My only concern is exactly this: Little Kids. The ones that are like 10, that have no friends, come home from school at 3 and play ALL NIGHT, are some how godly at FPS, but have high pitched voices that annoy the crap out of you, and you know that they're way too young to swear like they do. THATS my only worry.
Pasen Haas Easter Corporation Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.08.18 16:59:00 - [30] I don't care about little kids at all. What I do care about is exactly how the soc mechanic will be affected. If we're all forced to buy this to defend or capture sov space, it'll be a travesty.
Diashi	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:00:00 - [31] So the Alliance that sells the most GTC's gets to pay for the mercs on the ground? Hmmm....
Jamus Duran The 5th Column	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:01:00 - [32] Edited by: Jamus Duran on 18/08/2009 17:02:32 I think this could be, and most probably will be, the best thing to happen to Eve in recent times. For this old timer, the game was starting to get a bit stagnant but this has definitely re-ignited my enthusiasm for the Eve universe. I applaud you CCP (for a change). I hope we will see more interactivity between the platforms though, other than just Sov mechanics. Trading items via contracts that kick in during DT would be nice. Surely you could arrange some kind of data xfer between servers for that stuff. Maybe give the Dust guys some implant inventing and manufacturing abilities that the space guys don't have. EDIT: Has anyone worked out the significance of the number 514 yet btw?
Zastrow J	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side?
Jamus Duran The 5th Column	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Zastrow J Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side? Yeah. The server will lag due to all the smack talk in local.
Reverand Pastor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:15:00 - [35] Originally by: Zastrow J Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side? Yes. I would have gotten to 10th prestige and golden AK-47 in half the time . Someone has brought up a good point about maps. Id imagine there has to be dozens with many variations since elements are going to be a factor. Also a solid definition of habitable would be nice.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Zastrow J Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side? Not sure how much meta gamming will work in a FPS game so...
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:18:00 - [37] Edited by: Pohbis on 18/08/2009 17:20:29 WTB atmospheric flight, Ambulation and WoD... ... oh wait, nevermind realedit The day that a console game dictates the SOV in EVE, is the day EVE finally WILL begin to die
shuckstar Gallente Hauling hogs	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:19:00 - [38] Originally by: Total Disaster Edited by: Total Disaster on 18/08/2009 13:58:43 so basically we can start dismantling all our POS because a FPS alliance of 13 years old hyperactive kiddos gonna own us all? Quoted for the truth what a load of *******s this idea is.
Grumples McGee	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:24:00 - [39] Ideally, CCP should have some way to quickly develop tens of thousands of maps. Just like every system is unique, so should ever planet be unique. Jita isn't just "System Layout #4 of 12" with the layout repeated all over the place. It's unique. It uses the same elements as every other map but the actual layout is unique (and probably randomly generated when the game was first being developed -- I doubt anyone hand crafted all of the EVE systems). Terrain generators are old news, so that is doable. Structures within the map may be part of a limited set (just as starbase designs are part of a limited set) but if the terrain is different on every planet, that could be worth something. There would be no "favorite map". I'll be surprised if Goonswarm has a big advantage other than the ability to fight on 15 fronts at once. I would still expect a single planetary battle to be very contained. 40 vs 40? 20 vs 20? Consoles aren't going to handle 961 vs 20. The big question I have is how these battles get setup. I also want to know why EVE players will care about planetary takeovers. I assume planetary ownership will mean something other than just another SOV source.
Zaiyo Modi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:25:00 - [40] It looks like a tech3 cruiser and a megathron battleship in that video.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:31:00 - [41] Bottom line is all we can do is speculate to the infinate fold on how it will be in the end. We should just wait for more details to be released from CCP on how deeep of an affect on EVE this will have.
Korerin Mayul Amarr The R.I.T.U.A.L Corp	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:38:00 - [42] Regardless of how it effects eve, introducting such networked contexts across multiple games should win somone at CCP a PhD if not a nobel prize for pwnage. This is a fantastic idea, i dont even think theres a word for it yet, and to my mind i cant recall it being done before. It could all go very very wrong, but the idea in and of itself is probably the best thing to happen to gaming in a long while. so... if my 7th gen malcavian sucessfully kills a warewolf i get moongold right? :P
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:44:00 - [43] Edited by: Pohbis on 18/08/2009 17:44:51 Originally by: Marlona Sky Bottom line is all we can do is speculate to the infinate fold on how it will be in the end. We should just wait for more details to be released from CCP on how deeep of an affect on EVE this will have. No need to. It's clearly an elaborate hoax. Planets in EVE don't look like this Thing is, the concept of an FPS-expansion for planetary control is sound, tie it to SOV which is the most horrible dull logistics nightmare currently? Great! Releasing it only to a target-group which couldn't be further from the one currently playing EVE, spreadsheet in space... horrible fail. For the current SOV holders AND the Dust players. Hilmar said it himself, those are living-room players. They'll want tangible rewards in THEIR game. Not some pseudo-SOV in a game their geeky older brother plays in the basement
Reverand Pastor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.18 17:53:00 - [44] Fair points. At least you backed off your OMGEVEIZDOOMED!1 of your earlier post. I would imagine the interaction between the two will be limited at first, tweaked, and then ramped up on later realeases. I still dont understand the whole 13 year old deciding sov point. I never have really. If its in regards to the 9 year old playing COD4 screaming racial remarks into your headset, then you havent seen goon forums. I believe thats pot & kettle syndrome.
Atropos Kahn Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Kahora Catori	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:09:00 - [45] This will certainly even up the odds a bit... Considering my FPS experience... you are looking at what... 16 vs 16 or 32 vs 32 tops for each match in a FPS... plus... It will be up to the individual skill of these players versus the tactics in EVE... so Goons can have at it... So if I get this right... The player corps can basically create the matches... by putting up the ISK and the Materials... and the FPS players log in and scroll through the available contracts... or missions... and choose them that way... So some huge carebear alliance could affect SOV in Delve... or the Dronelands... and never set foot out of High Sec.... I am loving this already... not that I am a carebear...
Lucias Trask The White Aces	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:16:00 - [46] I posted this in COAD, but here it is in the real thread as well I hope they implement Titans able to DDD planets. Then the DustBunnies will be able to know whats it like to eat Doomsday. I cannot see PL and Goons not just running around DDDing planets during their bored time when they know DustBunnies are fighting down there. IMPLEMENT PLANET DOOMSDAYS CCP!!! [PANIC]
Lucias Trask The White Aces	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:17:00 - [47] Originally by: Zastrow J Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side? Can I be in the Goonsquad? No really can I? [PANIC]
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:19:00 - [48] Originally by: Atropos Kahn This will certainly even up the odds a bit... Considering my FPS experience... you are looking at what... 16 vs 16 or 32 vs 32 tops for each match in a FPS... plus... It will be up to the individual skill of these players versus the tactics in EVE... so Goons can have at it... So if I get this right... The player corps can basically create the matches... by putting up the ISK and the Materials... and the FPS players log in and scroll through the available contracts... or missions... and choose them that way... So some huge carebear alliance could affect SOV in Delve... or the Dronelands... and never set foot out of High Sec.... I am loving this already... not that I am a carebear... love your sig but yeah, thats why the goons csm guys are crying about. who knows what it will all be like when its all said and done though. anyone know like when this game comes out??
Moloc's Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:22:00 - [49] I used to play Planetside. It was the first "mmofps" ever. (It still exists). It had battles of say 250 vs 250 (Potentially with more, with the pain of lag ofc) with vehicles, aircraft and footsoldiers in a grand scheme. It was fantastic, and very different from the pure twich-skill fps games with limits of 32 players, like Battlefield etc. The strategy of battles was superior by far. It also had, like eve, a large connected world. It did have seperate american en eu-based serverclusters, but apart from that. One world. The playerbase had alot more mature players, like Eve. What made me quit the game, was that instead of adding playercreated goals and rewards at a strategic level, which the game sorely needed, they added giant walking robots. If this "mmofps" becomes anything like Planetside, it will have a humongous advantage with the obvious playerdriven strategy and rewards from sov-warfare in Eve. Its a great idea, and I hope CCP can pull it off. "mmofps" chew on that concept. As for the fears of the implications this will have for Eve. I share them all. 1. Painfully built up alliances with sov space, snatched out of our hands by 13 year old brats. 2. Extremely large DUST alliances aligned with a large Eve alliance, making it impossible to win sov-warfare against them. Even if you are ever so 1337 at internet spaceship strategy. I dont care what kind of mechanics they put into it. The metagaming world will ensure strong alignment between certain alliances will be possible. Hopefully the "integration" between the two games will be carefully and slowly done to ensure we maintain a certain "balance" 3. Cconsoles? WTF?!!! I hate consoles. Consoles are for brats! Sure, kiddies want consoles. But the kind of player that goes for an mmofps? I am not so sure. If this becomes a success though, a hardcore pc-gamer like myself, might eventually succumb and end up getting a console anyways. That would be a huge win for CCP and their "consolepartner" if there are enough people like me around.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Moloc's 1. Painfully built up alliances with sov space, snatched out of our hands by 13 year old brats. Already happened right?
Pasen Haas Easter Corporation Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:34:00 - [51] That's a pretty blatant misrepresentation of the problem. No one has much of an issue with 13-year-old brats snatching sovereign space. What's ****ing everyone off is the idea that people who AREN'T PLAYING EVE can snatch sovereign space. And if you're not paying enough ISK, you can't do jack about it.
Black Singularity	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:49:00 - [52] wow, please port this to the PC. im not getting a ****in console :( can we have a linked subscription payed with plexes too? ;)
Moloc's Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.18 18:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Pasen Haas That's a pretty blatant misrepresentation of the problem. No one has much of an issue with 13-year-old brats snatching sovereign space. What's ****ing everyone off is the idea that people who AREN'T PLAYING EVE can snatch sovereign space. And if you're not paying enough ISK, you can't do jack about it. You are right of course. The "13 year old brat" is not really the point. Lets call them "Players who are not playing Eve" And yeah, without enough ISK or even if the metaworld goes to it worst; RL-money, its gonna be a bad thing. Still, the ISK-problem is here today already. Without ISK you cant replace your fleets. And even today we see allegations of huge RL-money sums interacting with Eve through various means. Like a certain "aluminum tychoon" people keep referring too, with his several bought titans etc. Hopefully CCP can manage to balance this.
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.18 19:15:00 - [54] Cut/Paste from CAOD: Dust looks and sounds fantastic, right up to the point he says an FPS will determine SOV in EVE. I know the kind of people who play console FPS games and I have no desire to interact with them in any way, much less in Eve. This great looking game sounds like it will be the worst thing CCP has done to Eve since I started playing 3 years ago. To CCP: Planetary control and planet based sov is what many players want but not like this! Eve players and only Eve players should determine what territory they control. Colonies and Capitals
Atropos Kahn Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Kahora Catori	Posted - 2009.08.18 19:33:00 - [55] Edited by: Atropos Kahn on 18/08/2009 19:34:28 My interpretation is that the MMO players will create the "missions/maps", while the FPS players will choose what "missions/maps" they want to play... regardless of what the MMO people want.... Sort of like any FPS today... you scroll down a list of servers... and you choose something that looks good to you...Only this list would display diffent SYSTEMS, followed by type of map... The map may be tied to a mechanic in the MMO... like shutting down the CYNO JAMMER.. the FPS players dont care abou the MMO... they just want to complete the map... Or maybe I have it completely wrong... I think that the systems will be separate enough so that the FPS players are not muddled with MMO politics... They are there just to fight.
Grumples McGee	Posted - 2009.08.18 19:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Trent Nichols To CCP: Planetary control and planet based sov is what many players want but not like this! Eve players and only Eve players should determine what territory they control. The thing you're not getting is that DUST is a subset of EVE. All those DUST players will, in fact, be EVE players. They are in the EVE universe fighting for EVE planets and EVE goals. So EVE players will determine system ownership, but they might be doing it partially through DUST. However: * Far more sensible would be that owning a planet trumps owning a large POS. * Whoever controls the most planets gains SOV. * Attacks on planets (via DUST) would have to be started via EVE, perhaps by literally dropping troops onto the planet (e.g., you buy "2000 marines" and then drop them. If the enemy has also dropped marines then the planet shows up in DUST as an available battlefield. Perhaps it's 20 vs 20 but your side has 2000 spawns and the enemy has however many spawns they dropped.)
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 19:47:00 - [57] This is chuckletastic. Might even buy an Xbox to give this a go. Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails i for one, like 8's that look like 9's lol
Reverand Pastor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.08.18 19:54:00 - [58] Couldnt have said it better Grumples. This isnt "other people deciding eve." These are new EVE players. Basically EVE as a brand is expanding and branching out incorporating a new dynamic and introducing to millions. The aproach that your being encroached on is assinine as they are just bumping the player base and introducing new content. relax...
Kile Kitmoore	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:02:00 - [59] The real questions are can they pull it off and what the final game mechanics include that cross over between our game and Dust. Assuming they can implement a planetary control via Dust the real question is why do it? Why give a whole other community on a completely different platform any power in a game that people have spent years building? Why leave the PC/Mac users out in the cold, if that is your intentions? No doubt CCP has some very ambitious ideas but at what point do the players and the media begin to simply ignore them? Atmospheric Flight in my mind would've been a great way to establish planetary control. Walking In Stations a place to build storefronts & introduce avatars. Since AF is dead in the water and WIS is in a dead zone regarding any new information we get this "NEW" project but wait, it DOSN"T INCLUDE US unless we own a console. I don't know about the rest of you but anyone who has spent time on Xbox LIVE likes the idea of ANY type of influence from that community into this one needs their head checked. I love you CCP but when you want to share these ambitious plans you do at some point need to deliver on them and not just show your amazing ability to market ideas.
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:10:00 - [60] Uh.. you can call it whatever you want. You are technically correct that Dust is Eve but I think you know what I mean. When I say "Eve" I mean the game I am paying for right now, the one that takes place out in space. My feeling is that the space an alliance owns should be determined only by the efforts of the players in that alliance. Just to be clear I mean players in space ships not players carrying assault rifles. Again I think Dust could be really cool but CCP needs to be very careful about how much influence the game has on Eve. Letting Dust players attack specific targets on planets and in stations could be interesting but Sov being determined by who can hire the most console players to do the fighting? No thank you. Colonies and Capitals
Abramul	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:12:00 - [61] Unless I miss my guess, backstabbing for ISK will be encouraged, resources and equipment will be limited, and who has access to specific equipment types will be controllable. The most obnoxious players will probably give up when they're told "No, you can't have a Super Ultra Kill-Everyone Gun. We don't yet trust you. But here's a helmet and an assault rifle, maybe you can kill a few enemies before you die."
Victor Mason Minmatar Mercurialis Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:13:00 - [62] Why only have it for consoles ??? Most of us dont have consoles....
ObiTwo Kinobi	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:20:00 - [63] Originally by: Zastrow J Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side? Not sure size will matter much considering there is a cap on maps due to hardware restrictions. So your 500 man zerg will be limited to say 50 guys.
Rush Gordon XERCORE Cult of War	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:22:00 - [64] It's a great vision but likely one that will take a looong time to implement. Dust will have to be successful ALL by itself before the two ever fuse. I think CCP is making a smart move starting it off on the console. If successful there, surely it will move to the PC. And please, the 13-year brat is not controlling your game! If you watch the CCP clip, the guy says Dust will be a COMPONENT of SOV. That means your spaceships will still have a say... We'll see. I'm pretty excited about it.
Chris Liath Gallente Nex Exercitus Cult of War	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:30:00 - [65] I have mixed feelings about this. "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
Aalana D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:35:00 - [66] Three things: 1. The reason that CCP is doing this is because they are greedy money grubbing ****. Another game which you HAVE to play to be successful at EVE is just a money grab. 2. This will NOT make a pinch of difference for controlling R64 moons. Big rich alliances will have a significant advantage in maintaining/paying for sov control. 3. I would only approve of this idea if it was for the control of STATIONS ONLY. That would be cool.
Karash Amerius Evolution	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:42:00 - [67] I for one welcome the new direction. There cannot be anyone who thinks the SOV system as it stands is "fun". I do however have concerns...but CCP has a proven track record when it comes to design I think to this point. I hope that PC based Spaceship players still retain a level of "Command" in the SOV game...and simply harness the power of the casual console FPS gamer to "pew pew" for them. ____________________________________________ "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Pasen Haas Easter Corporation Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Grumples McGee Originally by: Trent Nichols To CCP: Planetary control and planet based sov is what many players want but not like this! Eve players and only Eve players should determine what territory they control. The thing you're not getting is that DUST is a subset of EVE. All those DUST players will, in fact, be EVE players. They are in the EVE universe fighting for EVE planets and EVE goals. So EVE players will determine system ownership, but they might be doing it partially through DUST. However: * Far more sensible would be that owning a planet trumps owning a large POS. * Whoever controls the most planets gains SOV. * Attacks on planets (via DUST) would have to be started via EVE, perhaps by literally dropping troops onto the planet (e.g., you buy "2000 marines" and then drop them. If the enemy has also dropped marines then the planet shows up in DUST as an available battlefield. Perhaps it's 20 vs 20 but your side has 2000 spawns and the enemy has however many spawns they dropped.) So to control sov, large 0.0 alliances must purchase this new game and possibly a console for every member. Are we starting to see the problems?
ObiTwo Kinobi	Posted - 2009.08.18 20:49:00 - [69] Originally by: Pasen Haas Originally by: Grumples McGee Originally by: Trent Nichols To CCP: Planetary control and planet based sov is what many players want but not like this! Eve players and only Eve players should determine what territory they control. The thing you're not getting is that DUST is a subset of EVE. All those DUST players will, in fact, be EVE players. They are in the EVE universe fighting for EVE planets and EVE goals. So EVE players will determine system ownership, but they might be doing it partially through DUST. However: * Far more sensible would be that owning a planet trumps owning a large POS. * Whoever controls the most planets gains SOV. * Attacks on planets (via DUST) would have to be started via EVE, perhaps by literally dropping troops onto the planet (e.g., you buy "2000 marines" and then drop them. If the enemy has also dropped marines then the planet shows up in DUST as an available battlefield. Perhaps it's 20 vs 20 but your side has 2000 spawns and the enemy has however many spawns they dropped.) So to control sov, large 0.0 alliances must purchase this new game and possibly a console for every member. Are we starting to see the problems? No one has to buy anything to compete. There are available methods to obtaining sov without playing DUST.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.18 21:22:00 - [70] Originally by: Victor Mason Most of us dont have consoles.... Please point everyone to an official poll of eve customers (all of them) that gives an answer as to who owns a console and who doesn't.
Vadinho GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.08.18 21:30:00 - [71] dust not being on pc is basically the biggest mistake ccp could have made
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.08.18 21:33:00 - [72] So, does that mean we do not need POS for claiming sov any more? No pos fuelling then? No need for ice any more? No need for pos logistics? Dreads becomming pointless as well as fleet battles to control a system? How about the different sov levels? Will that have any impact on how easy a planet will be to capture? Or is a sov4 system as easy to capture as a sov1 system? The more I think about it, the more I get the impression that CCP needs to think A LOT more about the whole Dust <-> Eve interaction. At the moment all looks very unfinished and not really well thought. If CCP isn't careful then this could destroy Eve and Dust as well and they will end up with nothing. If they do everything right (yeah, considering their past ...) then this will be fantastic and a new form of MMO never seen before and years ahead of any competition. But it needs much much more interaction between Eve and Dust. Shared corps and alliances with same (voice) real time chat channels is the minimum as well as shared resources between Eve and Dust. At the moment the interaction is only 1) in Eve create merc contracts for Dust teams and 2) Dust teams capturing a planet and affection sov in Eve. That is BY FAR not good enough.
SpankMeElmo Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.08.18 21:54:00 - [73] Wonder if there will be cleavage....
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.08.18 22:05:00 - [74] Edited by: Kel Nissa on 18/08/2009 22:06:00 Quote: Why only have it for consoles ??? Most of us dont have consoles.... Quote: dust not being on pc is basically the biggest mistake ccp could have made Im not so happy about the console only move. What we know: 100% of current playerbase have a PC or MAC. No one knows how many of that got a console. What we also know: 100% of dust playerbase will ahve a console, but only a portion of them will have a PC to extend their mind into eves universe. I hope that CCP has some plans to bridge this map. Otherwise it would be really annoying. When its really like Dust impacts EVEs world, it might be possible that people consider to quit instead of buying a console to get back on track. On the other side i understand why they chosen a console. It allows them to target an additional target audience and not only already eve addicted players. But i think this makes only real sense if they plan a PC port later.
Shade Millith Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.18 22:21:00 - [75] Originally by: Pasen Haas I don't care about little kids at all. What I do care about is exactly how the soc mechanic will be affected. If we're all forced to buy this to defend or capture sov space, it'll be a travesty. This, a hundred times this Do not **** over your players who live in 0.0, by taking away any part of 0.0 sov. We live there, and I don't want to have to rely on people playing another game, on another gaming system, for my sov. --------------------------------------------
Koronos Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.08.18 22:50:00 - [76] Originally by: Trent Nichols Cut/Paste from CAOD: Dust looks and sounds fantastic, right up to the point he says an FPS will determine SOV in EVE. I know the kind of people who play console FPS games and I have no desire to interact with them in any way, much less in Eve. This great looking game sounds like it will be the worst thing CCP has done to Eve since I started playing 3 years ago. To CCP: Planetary control and planet based sov is what many players want but not like this! Eve players and only Eve players should determine what territory they control. Yeah, although actually as I posted in your very interesting thread (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1111332) I think that this could work _with_ your suggestions and make this idea not only make more sense but be more immersed and much more eve-controlled than we're imagining it to be right now.
Halycon Gamma Caldari The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.08.18 22:54:00 - [77] NO NO OH H*** NO. I don't mind an FPS attached to Eve, I want an FPS component to eve. I've wanted one for a couple years now. But I want it linked to the eve accounts I already have. I want to be able to open up the eve client, fly around in my space ship, land, pull out a gun, and blast some stuff. That's the dream. But I'd settle for different characters if need be, an FPS character slot, and a pod pilot character slot. But this.. this is a travesty. At least we finally know the real point of ambulation though. A neutral meeting point between Eve players and Dust players, where they can have face time with each other in game to hash out contracts and deals. Just the console players don't get any of our fun, and we don't get any of their fun.
Daedalus II	Posted - 2009.08.18 23:06:00 - [78] Ok I don't know more about this than anyone else, so I'm just speculating, but this is how I imagine how the games are connected: Your alliance wants to take sovernty in an enemy system. You lay siege to the system, kill all inhabitants AND start moving in supplies for a ground assault (tanks, vehicles, armor, hand weapons and empty clones). You then put up a request for the FPS players to take over the planet for you. Depending on how good you are with supplying them with this stuff they will be more or less happy to work with you, and will have it more or less easy to take over the planet. If you for example provide a lot of tanks they will have an easy time, but if you cheap out and don't provide tanks they might get ****ed and just go over to the other side. If you don't provide enough clones you eventually run out of soldiers entirely as they don't have anything to respawn in. And in the middle of all this the enemy alliance will do anything to prevent your supply ships from coming through I wouldn't hope on any real time interaction though, in stations or anywhere else. Stuff you deliver would probably migrate/be synced over to the FPS every hour or so.
orkorde Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.08.18 23:10:00 - [79] That explains the extra work on IM / communication type tools discussed in a DEV blog a little while ago... While I understand the emotion in this thread - I can't see how anyone can make a judgement on what exactly this will do to our EVE experience. We just don't have enough information. I could envision this being brilliant - or a complete and utter disaster, and that is unsettling. I wonder if Dirt Players have to be moved by EVE pilots to get to different planets in 0.0. That would be interesting. A recon sneaks into enemy territory, opens a covert cyno to let in a Blackops, which then releases drop ships on a system cyno jammer... Or a gate camp catches a troop ship on its way to an assault, destroying the clones and equipment of 100 Dirt players before they get a chance to fight...
AD Adams Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.08.18 23:44:00 - [80] I think us in EVE will probably be affecting the DUST players more then what they would be affecting our gameplay. I find the idea interesting, yet I hope they still make DUST as unforgiving, deep and complex plus hard to master as it's spaceship counterpart. That should filter out the non-dedicated players fairly fast. As for 13-year olds running the stuff...I highly doubt it. Even if the game played like Halo or Call of Duty it will still be an MMO meaning there will be a monthly fee. Couple that with the Xbox Live card that you need to purchase and their parents won't be to happy. On the other hand if said 13-year old can manage playing DUST and earn ISK enough to pay for PLEXES (if CCP is considering this for DUST) then maybe he's good enough to play anyhow. Also, PLEASE CCP I love my PC and I hate playing FPS's on consoles. I've played HL deathmatch, quake 1 ,2 and 3 on PC and UT1. I have also mastered Swat 4 and the older rainbow six games (not this **** where you heal?? the hell is up with that). The PC must get this FPS but I can't consider paying for a subscription on a console... -------
doubles ondoubles	Posted - 2009.08.18 23:48:00 - [81] Originally by: Daedalus II Ok I don't know more about this than anyone else, so I'm just speculating, but this is how I imagine how the games are connected: Your alliance wants to take sovernty in an enemy system. You lay siege to the system, kill all inhabitants AND start moving in supplies for a ground assault (tanks, vehicles, armor, hand weapons and empty clones). You then put up a request for the FPS players to take over the planet for you. Depending on how good you are with supplying them with this stuff they will be more or less happy to work with you, and will have it more or less easy to take over the planet. If you for example provide a lot of tanks they will have an easy time, but if you cheap out and don't provide tanks they might get **ed and just go over to the other side. If you don't provide enough clones you eventually run out of soldiers entirely as they don't have anything to respawn in. And in the middle of all this the enemy alliance will do anything to prevent your supply ships from coming through I wouldn't hope on any real time interaction though, in stations or anywhere else. Stuff you deliver would probably migrate/be synced over to the FPS every hour or so. Yes that sound like the way it should be done. IN the begining i'm sure it will be contract mercs doing all our work. on the EVE side we are basiclly hiring NPCs to take control of a planet. On the Dust side you will have NPCs hiring them to do the work. One day a guy from dust might be fighiting for the greater goons hive, the next he might be fighiting for the russians, the next who knows. Also this might only be a one time shot deal thing much like poses is now. You want to invade deleve, you need to kill alot of poses. With dust you need to hire mercs to take over planets. You make a contract much like Deadalus said. You win the plaent is yours. You lose DD the idiots. Thes best way to do it is have eve online generate the fights for the fps. everntually after awhile bonds will be made between fps groups and the alliance who hire them out. If the dust corp pew pew, is hired by a certain alliance alot, maybe they make a permient contract of sorts. Of course to keep sov control still in eve, the mercs need space support as well. If one side absolutly **s the feild of reds, guess what chill out wait for fight to end kill the enemy from space if they win. send in new mercs to secure. I can see this going in a real fun good direction for fpsm and eve. I aslo can see it going in a real bad one.
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:06:00 - [82] Consoles are for **s, release it on PC please. Good idea, we will se about implementation. Also console games and public is not very persistent* so we will see how CCP does plan it all.
CypherLH	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:17:00 - [83] Has anyone begun to consider the possibilities for _trade_ that this could open up? Presumably there will be assets unique to 'dust' that can be traded through space by pod pilots playing Eve. So you could move guns, tanks, mechs, aircraft, etc and the raw materials and components needed to make them, from planet to planet, and whatnot. It'll open up an entire huge new branch of the Eve economy - one that is no longer abstracted as those generic trade goods. Now, when you get things like small arms....those will be things that follow supply/demand based on the demand from dust players. And there could also be things that maybe can only be obtained or produced on planets in 'dust', which can then be traded via the general Eve economy. And the expanded possibilitis for Alliance wars, with one side having to obtain space-dominance and then dropping in marines which unlock spawns for the 'dust' players, and having to keep them in supply, and the opposing Alliance trying to disrupt those lines of supply, big space battles for control of the space around planets, etc, etc, etc. This has the potential to be INCREDIBLE. If they pull it off of course.
Ares Vakan Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:24:00 - [84] Shooting other players for 3 hours sounds much better than shooting a POS for 3 hours. I welcome a new option that allows me to partake in the battles of EVE. I just hope that the SOV changes made to EVE itself work well with Dust. Click
Englebert Humperdinck	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:27:00 - [85] This should be used to breathe life into FW!!!!!! sov is wierd, FW would be *****ing, races against each other, more easy to integrate too. Could fight for ur race in space on eve, and if u had a console, on planet/floating beacon. But all of this makes me hard. Thoughts?
Cyzin Jita	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:49:00 - [86] As a young up an coming corp in an alliance during it's infancy, im excited. It'll revive the thrill of FPS clanwars as well. "Guys are we playing to get into the finals tonight or what?" "Tonight? We're playing for one of our planets"
Red Thunder tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:03:00 - [87] this sounds epic :D :D and to the people saying ccp are just moneygrabbing, greedy, etc etc etc, isnt the idea of a company to make money??? Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines
OzDeaDMeaT Gallente The Goodies	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:20:00 - [88] I hope it is coming to PC as well. Hopefully it will be one of those FanFest 'surprises'. WiS looks to be dead. Eve-au.com News Reporter
Koronos Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:51:00 - [89] Originally by: orkorde <snip> I wonder if Dirt Players have to be moved by EVE pilots to get to different planets in 0.0. That would be interesting. A recon sneaks into enemy territory, opens a covert cyno to let in a Blackops, which then releases drop ships on a system cyno jammer... Or a gate camp catches a troop ship on its way to an assault, destroying the clones and equipment of 100 Dirt players before they get a chance to fight... ohmygod that sounds effing epic. But I can't see how that would be viable for the Dirt players. Similarly, from the eve stories and everything we know that heavy eve ships can attack planets, and of course you should be able to DD a planetary area, but again, coming back to reality that's not going to be viable for the fps players. Log in, accept contract screen shows you transferring planetside, terrain loads, you're looking at your radar map, moving into tactical position, and then... oops, you're ALL dead. That's not going to fly for the Dirt players. Originally by: Cyzin Jita <snip> "Guys are we playing to get into the finals tonight or what?" "Tonight? We're playing for one of our planets" I just got chills reading that. God I hope this can be implemented in a good way. I'm normally averse to change, but fkk this could be amazing.
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.19 02:34:00 - [90] Anything but POS bashing !! rawr ... "Call me Kernel MachineGun Rakakakaka" ... Now, when exactly do I get to upgrade the entertain system in here? I have a Wii connected at the moment .. Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails i for one, like 8's that look like 9's lol
Lira Reib	Posted - 2009.08.19 02:36:00 - [91] Let me see if I understand this. In order to fully participate in all areas of EVE I would have to: Buy a console (which I don't want) Use ****ty-ass console controls (which I refuse to do) Probably pay for a subscription to another game or online service If this new mechanic negatively affects my gameplay, I can see it being somewhat demotivating.
Tomoyuki	Posted - 2009.08.19 02:45:00 - [92] Edited by: Tomoyuki on 19/08/2009 02:47:03 Ok will I am going to state this since most player do not realize that CCP has not released any info on how Dust is going to work so everything is only speculation. (Please post a devblog or something that would confirm your fears) Now on the issue of 13 yr olds controlling sov sounds stupid to me. Based off what I read the alliance has to put up a contract and hire them to fight for you. The only thing that they are going to control which you can't is if you wasted all of those resources and isk because 50% of the players are complete morons and gets owned. With the idea of indy corps just putting out contracts to take planets from major alliances. S*** I wish that would happen because I am a carebear. But what is most likely will happen is that you will have to escort troops and supplies to the planet which the defending alliance has to defend using their fleet. No different then wars being fought today where the military has to take control of sea around the country before they can get troops into it. From what I am seeing CCP is trying to throw in another isk sink since there has been plenty of threads of how so many alliances now field 8 10 titans. This is to make the alliances split up (another words budget) the isk to different branches like either to the expendable soldiers or to your naval fleet. I still say it is too early for anyone to make an informed opinion about it until CCP can kindly explain to the eve population how dust mechanics work and how the expendable pawns will affect the eve universe Also forgot to add. Everyone that is upset because CCP is trying to make more money well last time I checked they are a corp and so this is a business for a profit.
Sue Malorie Caldari Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.08.19 02:46:00 - [93] Edited by: Sue Malorie on 19/08/2009 02:52:23 Originally by: Vadinho dust not being on pc is basically the biggest mistake ccp could have made I may agree. Adding FPS is good feature, but only for consoles is bad idea. Seems like EvE has so good rep that Sony want a piece of the cake, by paying CCP for adding some feature for consoles only. As someone have already pointed out, not every EvE players do own consoles. We who don't have console don't want to be forced to buy one either. If an 0.0 alliance do have Sov 4 and by this new feature the sov will reduce to 2 without the alliance can be able to defend themselves, bad idea. Seems like ccp want to allowe everyone to "steal" sov from whatever alliance without need to shoot any POS or structures. Make the new feature for PC as well or skip the whole idea. Cheers, SM
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.19 05:50:00 - [94] My speculations on how it would be affected for sov mechanics? Well, as one knows, spawns and such are vital part of winning and controlling in an FPS. Maybe an alliance is what offers supplies and defences to a ground force? Perhaps those in space can guide the fps battle around, almost like a fleet command from orbit, as it says it entails strategy gaming. Surface, sounds good. Too me... what does it all sound like? Like any fps, team killing, etc is going to be rampant! Ergo, the only way to make it work would be to have the same type of gain/serious consequence rpg qualities like eve. IE an MMO FPS. Us in space supply, reward and can move, issue orders to the console players. Console people get new maps to fight and conquest on, if lots of bot focus, would make for an exciting battle. In the end, if it is like rpg, the contested sovs are where players will spawn for battle would be good. It can work, but I hope it is like this as a part of sov dynamics, fun, interesting, but not overwhelming. Us capsuleers better have some way of interacting on planets as well too, I don't want to have to log off pc and head to the 360 just to go planetside with my team. I want to be able to fly to a planet as markus reese, with my corpmates and smoothly, albiet can be as a capsuleer, maybe one of the big ships it shows in orbit and guide or watch the fps battle below.
voiddragon	Posted - 2009.08.19 06:12:00 - [95] Edited by: voiddragon on 19/08/2009 06:14:31 It'll probably be something similar to planetside which is connected to sov mechanics of the real game. But I doubt they'll have dust 514 directly interfacing with EVE players. But if they did it could mean that your dust people would gain benefits from having an eve online character? But it's all speculation, I notice some people criticizing above when they don't even know how it's going to work yet. So quit your *****in' and just wait impatiently for this game. If it's anything like planetside it'll be worth it.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.08.19 06:27:00 - [96] Originally by: Jamus Duran Originally by: Zastrow J Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side? Yeah. The server will lag due to all the smack talk in local. No keyboard on consoles. At best they do rude gestures towards you :p
Jessica Bains Silicon Moon	Posted - 2009.08.19 06:54:00 - [97] Originally by: theZJ I don't want to buy a console just in order to play that game, and I DONT want to be excluded from important aspects of gameplay and immersion. This. I don't even like consoles, to put it mildly.
Lexa Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.08.19 07:50:00 - [98] This is a really terrible idea, tbqh. Originally by: RedSplat The Forum moderation Software known as Mitnal became self aware. CCP had no choice but to shut it down.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2009.08.19 08:20:00 - [99] Lol at the whines. Get a grip. Do you think CCP is going to gamble thier golden Egg? Of course not. The interaction betweent he games is going to be very limited in terms of game mechanincs. You all take it like he said that sov will be determined by Dust 514. It wont. Duh! It will be part of controlling the system. Most likely we will see planetary resources introduced with this, and what Dust influence is how much income you get from controlling a planet. This fit nicely with the govenorship thing they have been talking about for a few years now. Dont worry, sov will be chnaged in so many other ways soon that this will be the least of your worries... "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Nayomi Minmatar M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.08.19 08:40:00 - [100] I was really hoping that planets would be included in a strategic way focusing more in interplanetary trade and that conflicts would be handled by what sides could better supply their ground forces. It would create a whole new field of smuggling for pilots, blockade runners could be used to transport soldiers, weapons, food, medical supplies to planets. New modules for POSs used to train soldiers of varying experience types based on how long their training time was set for. Pilots could directly intervene by being present at a planet and could give bonuses to their troops on the ground through skills and some sort of link putting them in command for as long as they could stay in orbit, bringing in of course the chance that the general's ship could get taken out. Manufacturing for supplies for the conflict would be important etc. I just hate to think that all of those opportunities to expand on the strategic depth of the game are going to be overly simplified in an FPS, and an FPS that isn't even tied into the history of the game. I must say that I feel slighted as well by the fact that people that have not been involved from the start are going to be able to have an affect on the corporation and alliance that I have chosen to be apart of. A lot of people have invested a lot into this game. Every day an absolutely insane chain of events produces T2 and T3 ships, empires of people that have never met each other, work together to accomplish ridiculously complicated tasks. I'm angry and sad at the same time that there is going to be an aspect of the game that is beyond the scope of the character that I have invested years in. A person plays WoW. They create a character, level it to the cap and then move on to another one. They get all the best gear in the game for their character, then get all the best gear for the next char. Our Eve characters are lived in. They are years old. They have reputations that have followed them for years and will continue to follow them. If it really does have an effect on the game, it takes something away from everything we've built as a community. an angry rant <emo rant>I play this game because young kids can't understand it, get bored with it fast and don't play it. I don't want to have to rely on a bunch of adolescents at all, ever. This FPS, like most others will end up dominated by young kids, I don't want to deal with young kids, and don't give me some age requirement crap because ratings don't keep them from playing. Why is this being done? I want a straight answer about why this is even on the boards. Did some new employee see some concept art for walking in stations and get a h*d on for pimpled up pre-pubescent boys shouting racial slurs and obscenities at each other? Not to mention the ego hit to all the work that the FCs in game have put into learning their trade and dealing with pilots that don't follow primaries? How can we expect them to not only pull off the unthinkable that is managing hundreds of pilots at one time, but also coordinate with 10 year old's who don't give a s&% about anything but their score? How is incorporating a proprietary M$ console add to the sandbox that Eve is supposed to be based on? I mean if you simply go by the sandbox model at all, where are all these people coming from? It should be tied directly into Eve itself, I mean pilots should have to abandon their ships to go down to a planet and if they die, they wake up in their clone station and have to buy a new contract. Tanks have to be built, minerals mined, and then everything has to be moved. I've been playing this game for a long time now. I played the beta for two months and bought the game the week it came out. I've taken some time off but always because I lacked time to play. But this is crazy. I really really hope that this game doesn't come out, but barring that it does come out, I hope that it will NOT have an effect on the game. I am insulted.</emo rant>
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2009.08.19 09:35:00 - [101] Yes, you are emo ranting... I think this is one of the most brilliant moves made in modern MMO history. The interaction will all in all be limited, but it will add more life to the world of EvE. And that cant be a bad thing. We will be the gods the pod pilots are supposed to be, which you dont really feel like now. DUST also add a new element of unpredictability that is lacking fromt the world of EVE atm.. Of course it can fail in a billion ways, but so could EvE. Yet it did not. Instead EvE (or rather the tranquility cluster) was given the spark of life, and now lives its own life. The more people who can become part of that, the better. I dont see myself playing DUST, i simply fail at fps games, but I love the idea that other people will be playing, and that I can interact with that in a new way. For the first time I have seen somthing deserving the label "next gen MMO". Enjoy! "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Commander Ogir	Posted - 2009.08.19 09:41:00 - [102] First comment: AWESOME! And the idea of transporting the troops.... whoa! YEAH! And then the big hit: small carebear corps invading 0.0 bump So, the Idea: Make a new class: Troop transport ships; Use the troop transport as a spawnpoint for your mercs. As long as the ship stays on the planet mercs can spawn... if its blown up: no more resupplies. This would prevent carebear corps invading 0.0 (they have to be there!) and keeping wars even more interesting; I'm already thinking about buying a PS3 for that game.... reminds me of the good old C&C Renegade times...
remo man	Posted - 2009.08.19 09:48:00 - [103] The idea is revolutionary and sounds fantastic as long as the fps side of things doesn't create too much of an abstraction in the control dynamics of soverignity within EvE. It will be interesting to see how the sov changes effect the control dynamic between the two games. So we have the proposed 1 shard - can effect all universe - being morphed(evolved?) into a 2 game - cross platform/interconnecting uber MMO. What a excellent idea, though when i first saw the video i thought "pfft, loss of control over being able to directly effect everything is going to be pants". Two interconnecting games sounds absolutely amazing, though i'm a pc-only gamer and so the proposed direct exclusion from being able to play this new game is frustrating.
Hester Shaw	Posted - 2009.08.19 09:51:00 - [104] Originally by: Qual Lol at the whines. Get a grip. Do you think CCP is going to gamble thier golden Egg? Of course not. The interaction betweent he games is going to be very limited in terms of game mechanincs. You all take it like he said that sov will be determined by Dust 514. It wont. Duh! It will be part of controlling the system. Most likely we will see planetary resources introduced with this, and what Dust influence is how much income you get from controlling a planet. This fit nicely with the govenorship thing they have been talking about for a few years now. Dont worry, sov will be chnaged in so many other ways soon that this will be the least of your worries... Jesus H Christ so much this -.- People really need to stop ragecrying when we know precious little more than ****-all about it.
Nayomi Minmatar M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.08.19 09:56:00 - [105] Yes mine was quite the rant and for that I apologize. I'm just worried that we haven't known for the last three years that it was in development, worried because FPS crowds are not known for their maturity, etc. After thinking about it for a little longer, yes it does have the potential to be great, but it is also a HUGE risk, a risk that could ultimately effect the Eve we've been playing in a very bad way. I'm just worried, I love this game and don't want anything bad to happen to it. 6 years is a long time to have been working on a single character. Yes it could be implemented in a really exciting way and it truly does have the potential to be revolutionary. Also I always secretly hoped that something like this would eventually come out for the PC and he says in the video that it's for consoles. Consoles are like drug cartels, they don't play nice with each other. Look at what a nightmare DLC is on xBox. But everyone is right, we really don't know anything yet. I foresee my alcohol intake doubling until the fanfest and more information. My fingers are crossed.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.19 11:16:00 - [106] If Sov control is based on Dust player results, and no longer on having to mindlessly feed poses all day, then what's so bad about that. Suppose it cost 400 Mil ISK a week to maintain your poses. But now ... You don't have to have poses except to mine moons. You take that 400 mil and pay off Dust Mercs. If CCP wisely sets some maximum prices for Dust Mercs or a limit on how many Contracts an Alliance can have or how many planets they can attack at one time (new skill perhaps?), so that bigger and richer can't hire them all, then it's going to be a wash on the question of ISK. The fact that boots on the ground will impact Sov is very realistic. Just because the USA has an aircraft carrier and the USN blob in the Red Sea, does not mean it controls Kuwait. When it, the US et alia, lands 300,000 troops in Kuwait, then it controls Kuwait. The boots can't get there with out the ships, and the ships can only project fire power so far. If you can't kick in someone's door and point a weapon at their head, then you don't really have control, sad but true. I would not be surprised if the new FW idea of LP for enemy ship kills works into this. Suppose you attack a planet. The Dust mercs start to pew pew. For every kill they get a "Sov point". The ships in space also shoot at each other, and for every kill there, they also get a "sov point", points from both groups going into the same buckets. Penalty points for no ships in space, and for no boots on the ground - thus forcing alliances to do both, Dust and Pod Pew. After some set amount of time, a day a week, whatever, the team with the most points wins. Having it take a few days would also help mitigate the inherit problem with persistent real time RTS, that no one can play 24 hours a day seven days a week. Just a guess The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.08.19 11:37:00 - [107] To be fair I always wished for a groudn based eve. And with that I mean a mechwarrior eve. Pilotign tanks, mechs. Slow paced, using mind and tactics. NOT another DUMB fps. Fast paced shooty shooty games are the lowest form of entretainment ever, paired up with reasoning phylosophical doubts about life meaning with a bunch of goons.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.08.19 11:39:00 - [108] Originally by: Adunh Slavy If Sov control is based on Dust player results, and no longer on having to mindlessly feed poses all day, then what's so bad about that. Suppose it cost 400 Mil ISK a week to maintain your poses. But now ... You don't have to have poses except to mine moons. You take that 400 mil and pay off Dust Mercs. If CCP wisely sets some maximum prices for Dust Mercs or a limit on how many Contracts an Alliance can have or how many planets they can attack at one time (new skill perhaps?), so that bigger and richer can't hire them all, then it's going to be a wash on the question of ISK. The fact that boots on the ground will impact Sov is very realistic. Just because the USA has an aircraft carrier and the USN blob in the Red Sea, does not mean it controls Kuwait. When it, the US et alia, lands 300,000 troops in Kuwait, then it controls Kuwait. The boots can't get there with out the ships, and the ships can only project fire power so far. If you can't kick in someone's door and point a weapon at their head, then you don't really have control, sad but true. I would not be surprised if the new FW idea of LP for enemy ship kills works into this. Suppose you attack a planet. The Dust mercs start to pew pew. For every kill they get a "Sov point". The ships in space also shoot at each other, and for every kill there, they also get a "sov point", points from both groups going into the same buckets. Penalty points for no ships in space, and for no boots on the ground - thus forcing alliances to do both, Dust and Pod Pew. After some set amount of time, a day a week, whatever, the team with the most points wins. Having it take a few days would also help mitigate the inherit problem with persistent real time RTS, that no one can play 24 hours a day seven days a week. Just a guess that is not completely true. Example? Do you think russia has soldiers or even any presence on all that vast areas of their land? NO. but they control it because peopel know that if you try to contest it you get a nuke in your head.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.08.19 11:55:00 - [109] this just in: Consoles control a large market share. Software companies have been known to cater to this market in hopes of profit. More at 11. do what you do ccp! this ** sounds awesome if you can span this across pcs and consoles, sweet. if no, i guess i'm gonna go get a ps3 ---------- Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother***r
666Devious Sinister Elite Raining Doom	Posted - 2009.08.19 11:55:00 - [110] The reason that this is bad because you are releasing your power to claim sov, and gambling it on new/different players that only have a small scope of the entire game. Now yes we dont have all the info granted, but on the flip side, every alliance in this game that has had, has, or in the act of acquiring Sov do this by eliminating variables. It is persistent conflict in some form or another until the current opposition has been neutralized. Bringing in these other players that are playing a different game then us effects their dedication, performance, and loyalty. By the way it sounds so far they dont have the same consequences. They dont die and end up in a new clone and have to buy new implants, or upgrade their clone. What skills points have they trained that are so important that they cant lose them. What gear would they lose that would make them not even consider dying.I seen in other online games when u die in the first 5 minutes everyone else just leaves the game. I guess ccp hasn't made the repercussions known yet to even consider that this new change will be balanced and wanted. They made it sound to me that they do the dirty grunt work on the ground and everything you need is provided by the pilots. Ok then, lets all play dust and see what pilots are going to be providing for us. Since this entire game is based around two things, nothing is free and everything is about war.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.08.19 12:11:00 - [111] If ccp makes it into a REAL MMO, like eve. With penalties for stupid actions etc. With need for organized groups etc. Then it can work well and be a huge boon to eve. Specially if ccp adds atmospheric flights for frigates. IF its only battlefield style game then this WILL CRIPPLE eve.
Tenchuu Khaan	Posted - 2009.08.19 12:13:00 - [112] Edited by: Tenchuu Khaan on 19/08/2009 12:14:53 The big question is: How many players on the Console side does it take to take over a territory, a planet, a system? ;) I don't see how CCP is going to get enough players on the Dust side to really affect the sov at all. Also, it was a "good decision" to release it to consoles only because then players don't get drawn away from EVE Online.
666Devious Sinister Elite Raining Doom	Posted - 2009.08.19 12:29:00 - [113] I don't know how it wont draw people away from eve to play dust. Dust would be effecting the most important aspect of the game which is sov. It would be impossible for major alliances that have invested years of dedication and hard work to let it fall in the hands of people that has absolutely zero affiliation to their alliance.
Gautan Virdamot Nebula Rasa Vanguard	Posted - 2009.08.19 12:43:00 - [114] Considering how badly they ****ed up the launch of FW I have little hope for this being a good first impression either and from there on it'll probably die off where a handful of EVE players with consoles will work both ends. Did anyone fraps it?
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.19 12:45:00 - [115] Originally by: Seishi Maru that is not completely true. Example? Do you think russia has soldiers or even any presence on all that vast areas of their land? NO. but they control it because peopel know that if you try to contest it you get a nuke in your head. Your very question contains the answer. "Do you think russia has soldiers or even any presence on all that vast areas of their land" See that, "their land" ... It's theirs, they have sovereignty over it and a cliam to legitimacy. Now send in 500,000 Chinese, who's land is it now? Although the Chinese may not have a claim to legitimacy, leave them there for 200 years and they will. You can go whine to the UN, or put your ships out in the Hong Kong harbor and make threats, but the Chinese don't have to go anyplace if they don't want to or the Russians don't shoot them. If you nuke the 500,000 enemy troops ok they are dead, but that land is useless now too and maybe the Chinese will nuke Moscow in response. If you don't have boots on the ground, you don't control the land. End of story. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.08.19 12:49:00 - [116] Edited by: Nian Banks on 19/08/2009 12:50:35 I find the idea of an eve mmo on consoles quite interesting, but also risky. CCP will need to initially limmit the sov influence quite a bit till they have enough data on how dust pans out and what the players want and do in it. That been said, I think it's good however I do have issue with the plan to allow dust players to create their own corps and alliances. In eve, they are just the uncounted masses where as pod pilots are the elites. Dust players should only be able to join npc corps or already established eve corps. In that way, while they are in npc corps they fight in faction warfare, and when in player owned corps, they fight for their Corp. This would solves a whole heap of potential problems. Another point is that they should allow corps and alliances to use the militia and other trade items as an npc planet defence, if a player Corp drops dust players onto a planet and there are 10,000 npc militia armed to the teeth there, the dust players shouldn't have an easy win and probably should die quite quickly. I would say that in eve you should have to planetary bombard an enemies planet to reduce the npc defence into a more manageable size before the dust players are droped to the surface. As someone said, larger ships in the eve backstory with current weapons can already bombard a planet.
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.19 12:52:00 - [117] Originally by: 666Devious I don't know how it wont draw people away from eve to play dust. Dust would be effecting the most important aspect of the game which is sov. It would be impossible for major alliances that have invested years of dedication and hard work to let it fall in the hands of people that has absolutely zero affiliation to their alliance. Think rationally for a second, why would CCP ever move sovereignty away from Eve? Hilmar said that planetary warfare would affect Sov. .. same as time does currently with the differing levels of control. Dust514 will not DETERMINE sovereignty but most likely ADD something for Sov. holders (like ability to anchor specific modules or gaining moon-mining rights). The word "affect" has such little weight that reading as much into it as some people are is quite literally insane. I really do not see how people can think that CCP would ever "kill" their baby. They'll let Dust die long before Eve if it comes to that. PS: Doesn't the PS3 at least support Linux, Mouse/Keyboard and what not?
666Devious Sinister Elite Raining Doom	Posted - 2009.08.19 13:11:00 - [118] Veshta Yoshida as i said we dont know all the details, just pointing out that they have to be very careful about it. Either way another game effecting any aspect of sov is negative due to the points I made in previous posts. Unless they effect something that is not very import with sov, like system scanners before, but then whats the point of Dust anyways.
Ming Yamato	Posted - 2009.08.19 13:12:00 - [119] CCP has done an acceptional job at balancing a EVE and I am sure that however they do it, it will be good. As for a first person shooter on console... you can have them, I am sure Halo fans are real good but mousers rule FPS. That aside, I think its a good idea. It may get those console gamers more into PC's again and not so affraid of patching and installing video cards.
Emnity Preston Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.08.19 13:32:00 - [120] Edited by: Emnity Preston on 19/08/2009 13:33:17 I believe it to be an excellent idea. A lot of people are getting themselves eaten up over semantics that havent even been released or discussed yet. It will be brilliant to have the games inter-related, and I'm sure this will be fully tested prior to release for multiple reasons. It would be corporate suicide to make the games completely inter-dependant, which is why I am 99.9% sure it will mainly be just another level of immersion rather than an all out dependance. The impression I get from the screen-play I have seen so far is that it seems to have an involvement in FW, and that the involvement with 0.0 and sov will probably be very dependant on the current eve universe situations. I doubt it will play a major part in any 0.0 Sov campaign, but maybe reducing or slightly increasing the time taken to reach the next level of Sov gain for example puts it on a decent playing field. It would be nice for them to be related in a lot of ways without truly interfering in either component. Edit:- Lets also remember, we have no idea what the intended upgrades are that are due to the sov system, it may fit like a glove. --------------------------------------------------- I know Violence is not the answer.. I got it wrong on purpose.
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.08.19 14:10:00 - [121] seeing as everybody in this thread is posting BIG LONG OMHFG posts, I have to shamefully admit I have not read everyone's replies, opinions and ideas. However, there is one important thing I would like to point out to all of you (with the hopes that it hasn't been pointed out already): I see whining about having to pay for YET ANOTHER subscription. How about you guys simply cancel ONE of your <insert random integer number between 1 and 50 here> accounts and use the money you save from that to buy ONE dust account. ohhh emmm geee you guys are willing to pay for up to 5 accounts or more (ive seen guys with ridiculus ammounts of accounts) but buying ONE dust account would be totally unreasonable?? seriously?! Theres a good reason I keep saying ONE dust account... which is ofc that it makes no sense to have more than one account for an FPS game, because obviously you only have 2 hands and 2 eyes and 1 brain and you'll need to combine all of those together to be able to properly play one FPS game. Do you guys see where this is going?... Yep.. for once SOV mechanics won't be won by the guys with the most accounts or most isk, but by the alliances/corps that have the most ACTUAL and ACTIVE players. I honestly cannot wait to see how this will affect 0.0 sov mechanics. <DISCLAIMER> I realise I have totally forgotten to incorporate the 'buying mercs/13yo FPS dweebs with isk' part but as it is right now there isnt any certainty yet about the game or how it will work/integrate into eve at all so basically concider this a nice view on the game if this mechanic were not to be implemented. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Chi'kote	Posted - 2009.08.19 14:24:00 - [122] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner seeing as everybody in this thread is posting BIG LONG OMHFG posts, I have to shamefully admit I have not read everyone's replies, opinions and ideas. However, there is one important thing I would like to point out to all of you (with the hopes that it hasn't been pointed out already): I see whining about having to pay for YET ANOTHER subscription. How about you guys simply cancel ONE of your <insert random integer number between 1 and 50 here> accounts and use the money you save from that to buy ONE dust account. ohhh emmm geee you guys are willing to pay for up to 5 accounts or more (ive seen guys with ridiculus ammounts of accounts) but buying ONE dust account would be totally unreasonable?? seriously?! Theres a good reason I keep saying ONE dust account... which is ofc that it makes no sense to have more than one account for an FPS game, because obviously you only have 2 hands and 2 eyes and 1 brain and you'll need to combine all of those together to be able to properly play one FPS game. Do you guys see where this is going?... Yep.. for once SOV mechanics won't be won by the guys with the most accounts or most isk, but by the alliances/corps that have the most ACTUAL and ACTIVE players. I honestly cannot wait to see how this will affect 0.0 sov mechanics. <DISCLAIMER> I realise I have totally forgotten to incorporate the 'buying mercs/13yo FPS dweebs with isk' part but as it is right now there isnt any certainty yet about the game or how it will work/integrate into eve at all so basically concider this a nice view on the game if this mechanic were not to be implemented. Not agreeing or disagreeing w/ you, just pointing out that a lot of people with lots of accounts don't actually pay for them with real money. They pay for them with in-game money. So someone paying for 1 account with real money and has 5 alts supported by isk can't just cancel one alt to pay for dust.
Dansel Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.19 14:34:00 - [123] Has it been stated for sure that we will need to pay a montly fee? ----------------- Yay!!
Terekt	Posted - 2009.08.19 14:36:00 - [124] Yeah thats what i alwayse wanted and my friend would begin to play it (that means much) ... but ... noooooo its only for consoles :((( a big nothing for us :o :(
Grideris	Posted - 2009.08.19 14:37:00 - [125] I have a feeling that CCP will allow PLEXs to be use for DUST accounts if they are subscription based... That or linking it directly to your existing account would be even better. Two for the price of 1 Also, lol at all the people crying about how something no one knows anything about is going to ruin everything. Its almost as sweet as tears... Calm down guys! After fanfest you will have more details. Till then, take a chill pill and hope for the best
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.08.19 14:38:00 - [126] Originally by: Dansel Has it been stated for sure that we will need to pay a montly fee? if current eve subscriders dont ATLEAST get a huge discount (50% or something) on dust im goingto be very upset __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Midnight Firestarter State War Academy	Posted - 2009.08.19 14:44:00 - [127] I don't own a console (fingers too fat) ..... WILL I STILL BE ABLE TO FULLY PLAY EVE !!!!!
ark maphar	Posted - 2009.08.19 15:11:00 - [128] i dont care of they release it for pc, just.......have faith and make ot for macs......please
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.08.19 16:52:00 - [129] All I can say is that if you don't own a console yet, then if you do go to get one, remember that CCP is so close to Microsoft, they share the same pillow when in bed. Guaranteed the Xbox 360 will have the best support.
Ameelia Brightstarr Degenerate Corp Elite Trade Group	Posted - 2009.08.19 17:10:00 - [130] Hi, Fatla1ty here! Will solve all your Dust/Sov issues for a small ISK consideration.
Tarnia Xavian Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.08.19 17:34:00 - [131] Sorry, I already have, like, 10,000 marines collected for that.
Space Cowboi	Posted - 2009.08.19 17:34:00 - [132] Originally by: Ameelia Brightstarr Hi, Fatla1ty here! Will solve all your Dust/Sov issues for a small ISK consideration. Fatality is washed up, he lost his reflexes 5 years ago.
Tomoyuki	Posted - 2009.08.19 21:47:00 - [133] Edited by: Tomoyuki on 19/08/2009 21:49:30 Once again ppl are s***ing themselves over speculation that Eve is going to die when it was briefly talked about as being a component to sov mechanics. Just wait for a dev blog release to explain what it is going to affect and how please. Now my biggest question is will CCP actually allow players to create the supplies that Dust players need to win control of a planet or will it become like a trade good? Example: Indy players can now spend a few hundred Trit to make a 1000 assault rifles or few thousand trit and mex to make a dozen tanks. I think it would be a great way to expand the market of the Eve world. Since blockade runners are probably going to be the ones that is going to try to get past gate camps etc to deliver supplies this might also help the trader and industrial/miner profession as well. Quite interested to hear other comments about this. quick edit to add an extra comment.
OrcephDrake	Posted - 2009.08.19 22:55:00 - [134] SIGH I have to admit that this seams pointless debating over all this until there is more information. I would say this. Sense its not for the PC i could fraking careless. U telling me i am gonna have to go buy a console!? WTF? First Person Shooters belong on the PC. (I am totaly ignorant and wrong here because of giant titles like Halo for example but I like being a ***.) Seriously the MOUSE HELLO! I cant stand console controls for a 3d shooter. I hope that if they bring it out for them that it will work with key/mouse addons. But seriously CCP! Did u just wanna give a GIANT "F* YOU" to your current players? Not all these guys have concoles nor wanna pay for two accounts. I understand u wanna open to a new market but did u have to put the words EvE on it? Just say the guys are fighting in New Bob and not New Eden and I be like cool looking game. But instead you guys r trying to add this to a game that has lots of hardcore PC players. Not to say that I run to the store and get my PS3 (WITH A Key/Mouse) and hook it up to my 32inch wallmounted LCD/TV thats above my PC monitors (I dont have a wife or a life so thats why i have the money to spend on this crap) and which synergy worked on the PS3. But whatever the case I REALLY would rather have them release the game for the PC as well.
Malus Sentio	Posted - 2009.08.20 01:14:00 - [135] Originally by: Grumples McGee I'll be surprised if Goonswarm has a big advantage other than the ability to fight on 15 fronts at once. I would still expect a single planetary battle to be very contained. 40 vs 40? 20 vs 20? Consoles aren't going to handle 961 vs 20. Planetside (the first MMOFPS) had something like up to 120 people on one map, with 4 maps full and another 3 half full during its peak. That game is like 6 years+ old. And it was awesome. Its still going I believe, but Sony are doing their best to kill it.
Sciencegeek deathdealer	Posted - 2009.08.20 03:12:00 - [136] Originally by: Jamus Duran Originally by: Zastrow J Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: Zastrow J I fail to see how taking sovereignty out of our hands enhances our Eve experience. I need to see more details. I guessing this probably only affects factional warfare, but I have no basis for this, it's just pure speculation. u worried? I dunno why I would be worried but have the rest of you stopped to consider what could happen with a big ass Dust 514 Goonsquad on our side? Yeah. The server will lag due to all the smack talk in local. OMG I just broke out laughing on this one! But i think that it could be a good thing could be a bad thing we will just have to wait and see
Gho Higyidr Black Serpent Technologies Atropos.	Posted - 2009.08.20 17:02:00 - [137] Don't like this idea at all. :/ I don't pay RL money for EVE, I'd like to keep it that way. So unless this DUST game accepts EVE GTCs shrugs Why not just make it so we can land our ships on planets and blow people the hell away? :D
mundus123	Posted - 2009.08.21 21:44:00 - [138] From what info can be gotten from the video. I think this will be a great addition to the eve universe. Hell it makes sense. The idea that were running around in these ships with these big planets just sitting there and in no way relevant to us! Besides the dynamics that this COULD, not will but could add to the game and the challenge to us 0.0 alliances. I think itll just be plain fun. Though i am anxious to see how ccp will have the troops deployed and transported. i.e. can we intercept them before they land or possibly creat blockades to cut off supplies. ect ect... Dev's get those blogs going!!!
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.08.22 00:01:00 - [139] Originally by: Malus Sentio Planetside (the first MMOFPS) had something like up to 120 people on one map, with 4 maps full and another 3 half full during its peak. That game is like 6 years+ old. And it was awesome. Its still going I believe, but Sony are doing their best to kill it. The numbers tossed out by Hilmar was 16 to 256 players, yet to be decided.
Saul Elsyn INTERSTELLAR ENTERPRISE	Posted - 2009.08.22 04:11:00 - [140] Actually I like this idea, though I'm unsure as to how it will be once implemented. There are tons of opportunities for us Capsuleers to interact with this other game if you think about it... Troops on the ground need ammo, guns, vehicles, and so forth (Clone bodies for the soldiers perhaps?). If the corporations are somehow integrated across the two games it could be even better. We capsuleers want the grunts to capture a planet, so we go to say... each planet has a sky hook or space elevator (A dockable station) and rent a corporate office. Assets for the grunts can be kept in the corporate hangar in the station (Perhaps corporate arsenal would be a better description) They fight it out on the planet, perhaps against npc locals as well as other corporations (NPC locals could have a concord bounty which they could use to purchase other weapons at a Buy area ALA counterstrike). If they capture the planet we get the station/skyhook and that swings the sovereignty (Capturable Stations will probably be revised to function this way I'd think). Still none of what I said could be correct. Time to take a wait and see approach.
xxxak Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.08.22 04:34:00 - [141] Originally by: Reverand Pastor Fair points. At least you backed off your OMGEVEIZDOOMED!1 of your earlier post. I would imagine the interaction between the two will be limited at first, tweaked, and then ramped up on later realeases. I still dont understand the whole 13 year old deciding sov point. I never have really. If its in regards to the 9 year old playing COD4 screaming racial remarks into your headset, then you havent seen goon forums. I believe thats pot & kettle syndrome. Sov decided by 13 yr olds is a problem. Factional warfare less of a big issue.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.22 04:38:00 - [142] Wow, where does most of this stuff come from? The entirety of the ccp post talks about how dust will be connected loosely to the sov mechanics of eve. Where does all the panic come from? Anyways, to me it sounds like it will be a console FPS that the environment of the battlefield is related to the sov. The MMO part would most likely be reputation, is about it. Earn rep with us in space, and they get better supplies, etc. I think in the end, it will just be some shooter where the results will have mild/moderate affect on us, but we will have a primary effect on them. For us, we will probably have some sort of planetary air battle like you can see hinted at in numerous videos that ccp has snuck in over the past couple of years. I would bet that the going on at the planetary fps lvl would be like the watching of ants to us. Ccp has been pretty decent about keeping the main attractions to eve alive. I reiterate, Dust will most likely be us affecting them than them affecting us.
Necromancy Black	Posted - 2009.08.22 05:22:00 - [143] I'll have to agree that the concerns over the sovereignty are justified, although the reaction to this has once again been handled by most of the forumers in the same manner a pyromaniac handles backburning. I think a dynamic between the two games is definitely a good move, but shifting anything crucial to the EVE Online gameplay to require both is a bad move, but CCP have said nothing about the new sovereignty system, so we have no idea what they will do with it. But it does seem CCP have hold true to the idea that you can do as little or as much in EVE without worrying about the other parts, so I'm not with the doomsayers saying you'll need both games to play EVE. Now, what would be really, really cool would be new features to both games that didn't exist before and need between game interaction to work. Possibly certain components from space rats can be sold to the DUSK players for some of the better in game items, and vice versa (maybe DUSK players can find artefacts and such that act T2 materials, or even raid research centres for tech2 BPC) There really is a lot of room here for some great ideas and as long as CCP stick to two things it should be fine: 1) do not alter any existing feature of EVE Online to require both games in order to work. Influence each other is fine, but not control 2) there is direct contact between both games. The ability to chat with each game and trade with each other is really going to be needed to make both games feel together and avoid making it feel as though EVE Online is having to take care of an annoying child that gives nothing back As I think someone make a suggestion of before, station Ambulation where players of both games can interact with each other would be absolute golden. Man, a lot of potential in this if you ask me (though I doubt anyone would). Exciting!
leana cyan	Posted - 2009.08.22 06:34:00 - [144] well honestly i going to make it short and sweet right to the point looks great alot of peeps are fps fans includeing me this is a great idea but and its a big but incorperate it right into the game cmon if u ask me thats what peeps want i wana be able to get outa my ship and hit the trench's thats how it should be if its going to have a effect on the game it should not be a seperate game it should be well within reach of the normal eve player u know lett me land on the planet and get out and hit the trench warfare whats stoping it realy i see your point in a new game and in the bottom line but honestly its not what eve is develop the game we have it could be the best thing ever just my 2 cent
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.22 06:53:00 - [145] Personally I'm excited about this because I own both a 360 and a PS3. Always have been a console and PC gamer, just all around gaming fanatic. But, a lot of people say that they are worried about battle size. MAG: Massive Action Game (PS3). That's all I have to say, 256 players at once, 60 fps. Why wouldn't CCP be able to do this or better? I think this game can be a major win. Especially if put on the PS3 platform. Why PS3? It's free online, no subscription to online service needed, plus the new slim that's coming out will be $299.
Necromancy Black	Posted - 2009.08.22 06:58:00 - [146] Originally by: leana cyan well honestly i going to make it short and sweet right to the point looks great alot of peeps are fps fans includeing me this is a great idea but and its a big but incorperate it right into the game cmon if u ask me thats what peeps want i wana be able to get outa my ship and hit the trench's thats how it should be if its going to have a effect on the game it should not be a seperate game it should be well within reach of the normal eve player u know lett me land on the planet and get out and hit the trench warfare whats stoping it realy i see your point in a new game and in the bottom line but honestly its not what eve is develop the game we have it could be the best thing ever just my 2 cent Holy crap, what happened to your punctuation?! I gather your wanting the games to be more fully merged, to the point where you can fly around in EVE then jump down to a planet in DUSK all in one game. No...just no. It would be a horrible thing for that to happen. Expanding EVE in such a way is bad, but adding an extra community and influences between both is good. As a player of EVE I like the feeling of thing beyond my control. I can't guarantee my safety anywhere, I can't stop the Goons being a bunch of ********s, I can't make the market more suited to my price ranges. But at the same time there is plenty I can do to ignore of this and not let it have any direct impact of my game. I can make my own damn rigs and not pay the extra my local market is charging. I can avoid lowsec and Null and major trade hubs, reading my chances of dieing greatly. None of these are perfect but they work, they give me the choice. I can pay for someone else to have made me an item or I can make it myself, the choice is there and most importantly, the choice is in game. What we don't want is for a different game on a different system to have a direct impact on our gameplay. Influence yes, the interaction is a good thing. Direct control, like needing planets to get SOV is bad. It's too much of an outside impact that no one can control. It makes the players feel diminished in power and also like they are forced to get a second game just to play this one. This basically the fear everyone is having. CCP would make the worst marketing strategy ever not to realise these fears and prevent them from happening. I'm not saying that making it so you can jump from one game to another will make this happen, but it would make alot of peoples fears alot closer to reality. I believe as long as social interaction is high and game influence on existing game play elements is relativity low, this will work brilliantly. They may even come up with some new elements both sides directly influence (Faction Warfare seems like a good place).
Necromancy Black	Posted - 2009.08.22 07:02:00 - [147] Originally by: D3F4ULT Why PS3? It's free online, no subscription to online service needed, plus the new slim that's coming out will be $299. I highly doubt CCP are going to use Microsoft to host their games (in fact that would be ******ed) so all you'll need is a Silver LIVE account which is free. I have one to play Dawn of War 2 and Universe at War and never cost me a cent. Hell, won't even need Xbox lobby system, CCP are easily capable of providing that themselves. Oh, and something I'm going to be really interested in: What kind of RPG elements are their going to be?
leana cyan	Posted - 2009.08.22 07:24:00 - [148] yea punctuations are overated as are consoles cmon any fps out there sucks on a console pc is the only way to go ive been playing fps longer then ive played eve eve 5+ yrs fps 10+ yrs easy yea i have owned every console out ther realy they all suck they dont have the performance and the endurance for long term gameing realy they dont. honestly the game looks great ide love to play it but i will not because its console they better make it for pc also realy and i hope its not low number servers type stuff we need black hawk down , joint ops type numbers none of this 16, 32 peeps per server stuff take a look at joint ops there doing 250 man battles if they get the peeps in a server im just saying if your going to do it do it right not half baked looks great thou and i still would probly play i have a 360 i can dust off lol punctuation are overated im to lazy sry
Englebert Humperdinck	Posted - 2009.08.22 07:36:00 - [149] I'd like to publicly announce my support of whatever CCP have planned for the game. Calm down. They're pros. Their main aim is not to try and **** over your alliance. (can i have some kind of faction bs for my support?)
Panthr2005	Posted - 2009.08.22 12:11:00 - [150] The only thing i have to say is whats to stop a fleet in space from pounding ordinance on the planets surface thus wiping out any troops on the ground? On that note ccp will also make it impossible to attack a planet from space...which is ******ed because if you can shoot at anything in space you should be able to shoot at a planets surface as well.
James Vayne	Posted - 2009.08.22 12:47:00 - [151] Here's the general gist of what CCP are saying about EVE/Dust relations. YES: There will be an effective relationship between the two in the future as things progress. (It is, possibly, no coincidence that the winter apocrypha expansion is going to concentrate heavily on sovereignty after the release of Dust ;) ) NO: They're not revealing anything anytime soon about what this relationship will be. But I think, personally, in general it will be about sovereignty.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.08.22 13:29:00 - [152] Dust is coming after the winter expansion, not before. So why would people think The Sovereignty Expansion of the decade will be so heavily reliant on a game to be released a year or three after?
ITTigerClawIK Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2009.08.22 15:26:00 - [153] Edited by: ITTigerClawIK on 22/08/2009 15:27:53 it was an awesome idea up till the point its exclusive to 13 year old idiots that will decide the fate of some of the biggest alliances in EVE online on a completely different platform. this and the fact we find this all out from someone else who just happened to find the video from a games convention somewhere and nothing has been mentioned from CCP to us here when this is going to eventually effect most of us here, we were never even consulted on this or asked how we felt about such a thing and this makes me wonder what else has been going on behind the scenes at CCP... is Microsoft now involved here and want more people to move over to consoles or what. also what is to stop a Dust company to simply just take a dive because they got paid of by someone else or some little 12 year old to kill everyone in sight including allies because he got fed up of dieing so much. Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
Nemtar Nataal Demonic Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.22 15:55:00 - [154] Think this might just be one of the extra dimentions that the sov system needs to become fun again. Today there is no point at all for a small alliance to try and achive a goal if they do not have a nap in place with the largest entity in the area, cause they can alwayes get blobbed out of the way. It looks like this could give another depth to EVE sov where small alliances can achive intermidiate goals in the game promoting there chance of taking control of a system. In other words sov will not just be in the hands of the people who undestand POS Mechanics, Sov Mechanics and Grid Mechanics the best but in the hands of people who want to do insainly small intermidiate missions achiving imposible goals that no one would have ever thought posible. DUST looks like it will be what roaming gangs were suppose to be when CCP moved POS guns outside the force fields saying "now small roaming gangs can actually achive minor goal as a advanced tactical force of the main fleet" which never happened.
Ice Pirateer	Posted - 2009.08.22 18:36:00 - [155] I for one think this is a natural evolution of ambultion development. I wouldn't be supprised in time to see people who were or are pod pilots on the ground mixing it up with the grunts too, or cleaning out a bunch of grunts in my casino I set up on a station. This will be fun. It's just another way to play the game. There is massive crossover potential here. This is a really great move for CCP... if they can deal with all the BS Bungie has to deal with w/ regards to lag and modders in Halo :D There will be glitches... yah. That said... I've never played eve and not had to deal with a glitch at some point. (btw I'm stuck in a gate atm... (just kidding!))
Gogela Caldari Darkest Depths AAA Citizens	Posted - 2009.08.22 18:47:00 - [156] Edited by: Gogela on 22/08/2009 18:57:03 Edited by: Gogela on 22/08/2009 18:55:06 Edited by: Gogela on 22/08/2009 18:49:49 A word on subscriptions: I think CCP or any game developer gets money for all the people they bring to XBox Live. I can't speak for the PS3, but I know that on the XBox 360 no one pays for a subscription to ANYTHING except their XBox Live account, which is like $50 US a year or something. Moreover, CCP will, just like any other game developer, charge for the console DVD. Most new release cames go for 50-70 dollars US. I seriously doubt anyone is going to have multiple DUST accounts (seriously, in a FPS? I can't believe some are suggesting that to be viable) save possibly spies. This is all going to work out. Remember, EvE is just a game that stays on top by being dynamic, as it should. If we get enough DUST fighters... sweet, we can use them. If the console game cools in popularity and lacks the staying power of the PC game EvE, well I'm sure CCP will switch it all back again. "Don't freak out... just enjoy the ride" is my advice. Originally by: ITTigerClawIK Edited by: ITTigerClawIK on 22/08/2009 15:27:53also what is to stop a Dust company to simply just take a dive because they got paid of by someone else or some little 12 year old to kill everyone in sight including allies because he got fed up of dieing so much. Team killing is a sport. I guess that just means you can't take just anyone with you on your planetary raid. There are good, decent size teams in FPS games you know. If you just joing in and let the game put you into a team, yah you get teamkillers. Sometimes I do that. You'll actually need to form a corporation if you want to avoid that... and trust me, anyone who does any decent ammount of FPS killing is looking for a clan to join. ...but let me ask you this... how is what you are describing any different than eve? Alliances are aways pulling that stuff. Just look at Goon Swarm. They took out BoB pulling something like that. ------------------------------------ "A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie."

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