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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.18 18:38:00 -
[1]
This game could have potential as the greatest take on the Stanford prison experiment ever seen. You've got one community, the pod pilots, who have been conditioned to consider themselves gods and disregard the lives of planetside people as meaningless insects, and now you're going to introduce a community of those insects for the demi-gods to toy with. However, this will only be awesome if done right. Here's the things I want to see happen in Dust:
Transportation:
1. Dust players should be 100% dependent on Eve Online players for transport. There should be no NPC transport option, and ships should have various carrying capacities - a frig can haul a few troops, a freighter can haul a tank batallion.
1a. Dust players should be entirely at the mercy of Eve Online players when being transferred, making the build-up of trust between communities an important factor. Make it entirely possible for Dust players to be ejected into space, or in lethal orbit of a red giant star.
1b. Ships carrying Dust players can also be shot down, something the Dust players should experience through a horrifying crew compartment decompression sequence. I'm talking Total Recall eyes-bugging-out-on-mars horrifying :D
Combat:
Eve players should be able to enter the Dust universe and vice versa. I'm guessing ambulation will be sort of a junction between the two, but what I'm really talking about is the ability to take your ship into different orbital positions based on ship class.
1. Battleships should be able to descend to high orbit, and engage in pwnsauce orbital bombardment as actual players, with effects that correspond to stuff happening in Dust. Enemy tank group bothering your ground troops? Call in an apoc with tachs :D (obviously, less effective against troops that can scramble to cover before the ground begins to melt under them)
1a. Here, the battleship would be vulnerable to planetary-scale defences. Cities on the ground would come with badass huge turrets, and shield generators with different coverage based on sector occupied, so core city sectors are highly protected and outlying areas are vulnerable to space attack. These turrets should be operated by Dust players and range from anti-frig flak towers to anti-battleship mega-pwncannons - a serious threat to Eve players in orbit. While Dust players will have like, man-portable surface to air weapons, it should be the planetary defences that have to be overcome or taken control of before you can bring in Eve player space support.
2. Cruisers can skim the atmosphere and provide psychotic strafing runs, same with frigates except they go even lower and become more accurate, maybe even taking out ground troops. The lower you go, the more effective your weapons become against Dust players directly, rather than terrain, but you become more vulnerable to ground defences.
3. Cities should be entirely destructible. No compromise, let the Eve players level entire city blocks, and allow Dust players to crawl through the irradiated molten rubble.
4. Every conquerable planet should have a doomsday scenario where the surface is reduced to slag for a while, and everything on the surface is annihilated by orbital bombardment. As a silver lining, the shifting of tectonic plates and what have you brings valuable new resources to the surface, or something. Allow Dust players to land on freshly ravaged worlds and walk around on cooling lava among undetonated orbital-scale ordnance and half-slagged wreckage.
This is how to make Eve and Dust 514 awesome.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.18 18:41:00 -
[2]
Eve player interaction:
1. Aside from orbital and atmospheric support, Eve players should also be able to go down planetside and fight. This would be awesome, we'd have crappy stats since we're mostly skinny dudes who live in soup most of our lives, but we have access to awesome infinite riches and the best technology around.
1a. Naturally we would be admired and worshipped as living gods, prompting lots of Dust players to come visit us and suck up for funding (Eve money should naturally be worth more than Dust players' currency, to give us influence in their world and make them suck up to us)
1b. Dust players should be able to kill Eve players in Ambulation and otherwise. This will also be awesome.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.08.18 18:46:00 -
[3]
You know... orbital bombardment might finally give a role to arty.
Energy weapons are unlikely to do well through an atmosphere. You have 300 miles of gas shield.. even the best energy weapons will disperse pretty quickly.
But arty? Not that hard to design a shell that can cut through atmosphere and hit a surface target with not only its initial velocity but all that wonderful v built up by falling into a well.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.08.18 18:47:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 18/08/2009 18:59:45 I'll add a bit to this. Dust players should be dependent on Eve players not just for transport, but also for logistics. Every Dust player gets a laser pistol or something as a rookie-ship equivalent, but if you want a tank, and Eve player has to build it, fly it to your planet, and drop it for you to use. If you want to upgrade your city defenses, again, an Eve player has to provide that. Incidentally, this will make the Dust economy far more functional - all that isk we pay them to do merc work has to be useful, after all.
Cities should have depots where all this weaponry, gear, etc., is stored, and if they get overrun, they get captured by the enemy Dusters, same as outposts. Launching a covert raid on a tank depot should be a viable way of crippling the opponent's ability to defend their city, if not adequately defended against.
Furthermore, with all the cross-game collaboration between Evers and Dusters, make sure that Eve Voice works across games, to allow for proper coordination of transport fleets, bombardment ops, strafing runs, and the like.
Edit: Forgot the most important one. Dust and Eve should share markets for PLEX. Perhaps a special deal for dual subscription - 3 PLEX = 60 days on each game?
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LordSwift
Caldari Fearless Phantoms Inc
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: LordSwift on 18/08/2009 19:03:18 Ok, the only thing i want is to be able to use Lordswift in dust. Reason for this is from what i have read, ccp are introducing cloned troopers. Basically pod pilots as foot soldiers. Sure i read it in one of the many articles i read or perhaps in that video. Cant remember i am tired. So why cant we jump clone to our soldier self and wage war. I would even be willing to start from scratch as a foot soldier. That all i want
Edit - this would be even better if their is a pc version and we have to close the eve client and run the fps client. fine with me Join the brown Coats today!!! |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:11:00 -
[6]
More ideas:
Planets: Living, breathing entities. Not just blank Mass Effect-like battlegrounds, but places with a mom n' pop store, a mechanic's shop, colony residences, a local economy, NPCs, a labor force capable of extracting resources and such. Make each planet seem like a lovely place, and people will regret it all the more when it is turned to bubbling slag by a ravenous orbital bombardment.
The longer a planet remains intact, the prettier it should get. Terraforming a hell world to a Main Street, Townsville status should take a full year. Starts with a humble and crappy mining outpost (early colonization), continues with a more profitable starport (allowing sale of resources to Eve players), habitat modules (more workforce), eventually advanced terraforming (better living conditions), garrisoning with troops (planetary defences), all the way to full colonization.
Since these planets are living and breathing, they should be affected in many ways by space bombardment. The atmosphere can only take so many laser beams before it gets turned to ozone or something nasty; a strike on habitat modules can cripple manpower and production output, that sort of thing. Make protecting planets a lot easier than conquering them, and conquering them intact by Dust players preferrable to levelling the place by enlisting Eve players to drop some antimatter on the surface.
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waferzankko
Caldari The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:15:00 -
[7]
this man for govenator
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr The Penumbra Initiative
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:22:00 -
[8]
I'd like to see Dust players able interact with Ambulation characters/locations!
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Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nekopyat You know... orbital bombardment might finally give a role to arty.
Energy weapons are unlikely to do well through an atmosphere. You have 300 miles of gas shield.. even the best energy weapons will disperse pretty quickly.
But arty? Not that hard to design a shell that can cut through atmosphere and hit a surface target with not only its initial velocity but all that wonderful v built up by falling into a well.
Arty and Railguns. Even if they encode the math of velocity to atmosphere a 720mm arty shell could hit with the force of 5 kilotons. I'd also add that corps in eve could recruit troops and add a whole new dimension to strategy and tactics in EVE.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vinsurith Morteth
Arty and Railguns. Even if they encode the math of velocity to atmosphere a 720mm arty shell could hit with the force of 5 kilotons. I'd also add that corps in eve could recruit troops and add a whole new dimension to strategy and tactics in EVE.
The railguns pose a bit of a problem. They are already 'better then arty at what arty is good for', so finding a way to not dominate bombardment too would be tricky. Perhaps the smaller shells burn up easier?
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Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 18/08/2009 19:23:06 I'll add a bit to this. Dust players should be dependent on Eve players not just for transport, but also for logistics. Every Dust player gets a laser pistol or something as a rookie-ship equivalent, but if you want a tank, and Eve player has to build it, fly it to your planet, and drop it for you to use. If you want to upgrade your city defenses, again, an Eve player has to provide that. Incidentally, this will make the Dust economy far more functional - all that isk we pay them to do merc work has to be useful, after all.
Cities should have depots where all this weaponry, gear, etc., is stored, and if they get overrun, they get captured by the enemy Dusters, same as outposts. Launching a covert raid on a tank depot should be a viable way of crippling the opponent's ability to defend their city, if not adequately defended against.
Furthermore, with all the cross-game collaboration between Evers and Dusters, make sure that Eve Voice works across games, to allow for proper coordination of transport fleets, bombardment ops, strafing runs, and the like.
Edit: Forgot the most important one. Dust and Eve should share markets for PLEX. Perhaps a special deal for dual subscription - 3 PLEX = 60 days on each game?
Edit 2: The other thing about Eve logistics backing Dust fighters, I think this might be where storefronts get introduced. Think Counterstrike-style - your Duster corp has a pile of supplies, and you want to make sure some smacktard doesn't burn off all your tanks in 20 minutes, so you set a price to pull them from the depot - you can subsidize, sell at a profit, whatever. A console FPS doesn't have as much room for stupid interface as Eve does, so you'll need something like this. Furthermore, this allows for a nice role for gun-runners - third parties can supply you, for a reasonable markup. I'm not sure how that'd interact with depots being overrun, but maybe something can be worked out.
I think the opportunity should be there for the ground troops to become more self sufficient (buliding barracks, defenses, manufacturing, etc.) but rely on long range (system to system) travel on eve players and orbital defense.
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Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Vinsurith Morteth
Arty and Railguns. Even if they encode the math of velocity to atmosphere a 720mm arty shell could hit with the force of 5 kilotons. I'd also add that corps in eve could recruit troops and add a whole new dimension to strategy and tactics in EVE.
The railguns pose a bit of a problem. They are already 'better then arty at what arty is good for', so finding a way to not dominate bombardment too would be tricky. Perhaps the smaller shells burn up easier?
Yeah, the "orbital bombardment" railguns would be a much greater velocity but smaller calibre so less impact more accurate. The "orbital" arty would be like hurling a meteor and would be less accurate but greater destruction. So commanders would have to choose between precisions and attrition.
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:31:00 -
[13]
The OP's visions of murder and mayhem are breathtaking. I endorse his developmental suggestions for DUST 514. Make it so...
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Imiarr Timshae on 18/08/2009 19:34:40 Where has the Shogaatsu I remember gone?
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:34:00 -
[15]
Just imagine it. You're a Dust guy, sitting around your settlement, when suddenly the clouds part above you, and reveal an Apocalypse sitting in high orbit, so high up that it looks like a moon. If you keep staring, you are treated to a beautiful cutscene of your character being incinerated along with the exposed part of the settlement you're in. If you managed to take cover before the beams hit, you have to think quickly - where's the nearest interface for the planetary defense grid? Can you activate the surface-to-orbit blasters, or is protecting the settlement more important by throwing up shields? Oh god! The battleship is unloading hostile Dust players just outside the settlement via dropships! Now you have to activate the perimeter defence guns before your anti-ship blasters are captured by the enemy!
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Verx Interis
Amarr SkyNet. Cruor-Salax Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:35:00 -
[16]
I agree with the OP pretty much 100%
People seem to whine about console only, but Dust 514 has the chance to be wtfawesome. ---- Logins required for this post: 424645 |
Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:38:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vinsurith Morteth on 18/08/2009 19:39:49
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Just imagine it. You're a Dust guy, sitting around your settlement, when suddenly the clouds part above you, and reveal an Apocalypse sitting in high orbit, so high up that it looks like a moon. If you keep staring, you are treated to a beautiful cutscene of your character being incinerated along with the exposed part of the settlement you're in. If you managed to take cover before the beams hit, you have to think quickly - where's the nearest interface for the planetary defense grid? Can you activate the surface-to-orbit blasters, or is protecting the settlement more important by throwing up shields? Oh god! The battleship is unloading hostile Dust players just outside the settlement via dropships! Now you have to activate the perimeter defence guns before your anti-ship blasters are captured by the enemy!
And if the Dust troops are with a corp themselve they would have the ability to call for fleet support, reinforcements, and even make dropzones. Dust troops would need to learn skills that will allow them to build reinforced underground structures as well for greater protection. Then the enemy Dust troops will have use do CQB tactics.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:41:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 18/08/2009 19:42:33
Originally by: Vinsurith Morteth I think the opportunity should be there for the ground troops to become more self sufficient (buliding barracks, defenses, manufacturing, etc.) but rely on long range (system to system) travel on eve players and orbital defense.
Problem with that is that I don't expect Dust to have a skill system, and allowing Dust players to manufacture will be unbalanced compared to Eve players doing the same but having to train for it. Industry alts should be Eve accounts, not Dust. That said, having facilities on planets that Eve players can use sounds fine to me. Just make sure the resources to run them come from mining and such.
Originally by: Vinsurith Morteth And if the Dust troops are with a corp themselve they would have the ability to call for fleet support, reinforcements, and even make dropzones. Dust troops would need to learn skills that will allow them to build reinforced underground structures as well for greater protection. Then the enemy Dust troops will have use do CQB tactics.
Yup, cross-game communication will be key. Also, enlighten me - CQB?
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Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:45:00 -
[19]
If they can get the 2 elements of space/ground to interact to one another in a fluid way. This could be the greatest game idea to date. Both sides would need to rely on the other for certain matireals or strategic/tactical support. Plus the market would change dramatically with items and minerals. Also, the Rats would need to be adjusted to do the same things as the players can do...troops, ships, and all.
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Trebor DeCaldar
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:46:00 -
[20]
I don't own a current console... so I won't be playing Dust unless it OMFG total awesomeness as never before seen.
But, I do like the idea of EVE ships being their transports. Would make Courier contracts rather interesting.
Also, maybe those militants and marines I have in my hangar I can contract as reinforcements to the Dusties. (Kinda like a supply countdown BF style?)
Maybe those 'planetary vehicles' can be dropped to them for some mobility.
Maybe we can get some BPOs seeded for some of their structures and weapons. A little boom for Chribba, I mean the Trit market.
Maybe they can have some high end ore sources on the planets that they can mine and sell to us... ABC ores on a planet in lowsec or even highsec??? Can you imagine how much fighting would take place for that?!?!?!
New ship classes for planetary bombardment and transport... keep the current ones for strictly space stuff. = More isk sinks, new skills to train, more cool pixels to fly around. - X up for fleet, need escorts for 3 heavy transports of dusties and their heavy armor, and 2 planetary bombardment ships.
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Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 18/08/2009 19:42:33
Originally by: Vinsurith Morteth I think the opportunity should be there for the ground troops to become more self sufficient (buliding barracks, defenses, manufacturing, etc.) but rely on long range (system to system) travel on eve players and orbital defense.
Problem with that is that I don't expect Dust to have a skill system, and allowing Dust players to manufacture will be unbalanced compared to Eve players doing the same but having to train for it. Industry alts should be Eve accounts, not Dust. That said, having facilities on planets that Eve players can use sounds fine to me. Just make sure the resources to run them come from mining and such.
Originally by: Vinsurith Morteth And if the Dust troops are with a corp themselve they would have the ability to call for fleet support, reinforcements, and even make dropzones. Dust troops would need to learn skills that will allow them to build reinforced underground structures as well for greater protection. Then the enemy Dust troops will have use do CQB tactics.
Yup, cross-game communication will be key. Also, enlighten me - CQB?
Yeah, they would have to have a skill system of sorts. Manufacturing would work as long as the main workings of it was run by EVE corp players. Their skills but the Dust players numbers. Plus we could mine belts and moons or planets dirctly, produce, food, water, etc. But, that would be based on the EVE player skills. OH, and CQB - Close Quarters Battle or Close Quarters Combat
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AngeBlade
Caldari modro
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Posted - 2009.08.18 19:55:00 -
[22]
OP is 100 dead on!!! DEATH FROM ABOVE!!! |
RabbidFerret
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.08.18 20:02:00 -
[23]
As cool as some of these ideas are, DUST 514 has been in development for 3 years. I'm sure they are far past the concept stage and have probably ironed out most of the details already. They are probably just waiting for community response on a few final details.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.08.18 20:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: RabbidFerret As cool as some of these ideas are, DUST 514 has been in development for 3 years. I'm sure they are far past the concept stage and have probably ironed out most of the details already. They are probably just waiting for community response on a few final details.
Killjoy. Also, this isn't a thread of suggestions, it's a wish list. We're hoping that they decided to include this stuff, not expecting that we can make them change their minds on any of it.
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Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 20:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: RabbidFerret As cool as some of these ideas are, DUST 514 has been in development for 3 years. I'm sure they are far past the concept stage and have probably ironed out most of the details already. They are probably just waiting for community response on a few final details.
Killjoy. Also, this isn't a thread of suggestions, it's a wish list. We're hoping that they decided to include this stuff, not expecting that we can make them change their minds on any of it.
lol. This is just the regular ranting of "we wish CCP would change _____ in EVE" except we're doing it for Dust.
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EX Cmd
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Posted - 2009.08.18 21:09:00 -
[26]
Edited by: EX Cmd on 18/08/2009 21:13:45 Yea!! I completely agree with, and share in the wishful thinking of Istvaan Shogaatsu & Herschel Yamamoto. I hope it comes to fruition. Would be one of if not THE greatest online gaming experience. $%^&ing awesome!!!
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Vinsurith Morteth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.08.18 21:17:00 -
[27]
Like what was mentioned earlier there would need to be separate ship classes and maybe even weapons to be used for orbital support and bombardment except for frigates. I don't see why they can't be used for close air support when needed. Just like C130 Spookies.
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Brigitte Helm
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.08.18 21:26:00 -
[28]
This is really going to be interesting I just hope there is a real connection between the world and not a simple you have an extra x points to your sov because you won the planet.
I have a wish list so long and so much covered by other people in part. I would just add the following.
COSMO - Social networking site + PC game + Console + Ambulation (?)
I can not think of anything which has even attempted to link these 3 big theme under one grouping. That would be a true first and technological feat. Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev.
Make Eve fun.... |
Slave 2739FKZ
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Posted - 2009.08.18 23:35:00 -
[29]
The best thread on DUST WHATEVER yet, bump for this man.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.08.18 23:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 18/08/2009 23:41:08 The OP post is great !So many possibilities. And i belive its the only way how eve customers could be trully satisfied.
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