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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
epsilonion
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Posted - 2009.08.24 11:26:00 -
[181]
anyway, instant/fast travel in EVE sucks as a rule.
Yup u need to do something whilst waiting for your skills... :D
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.24 11:45:00 -
[182]
I have a simple solution, ban them from high sec like all other jump capable ships. The JF is still invincible, but the cargo isn't as it must be transferred to or from the JF in a station or POS by a non-jump capable ship that can be intercepted. That basically resolves the issue I think. -----------------------------------------------------
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viuva
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Posted - 2009.08.24 12:03:00 -
[183]
Jump freighters and jump bridges , for me were the worst things that ccp could bring to eve .
You dont need any op for logistic, 2 or 3 guys could do the job... they could travel with billions in easy mode.
(easy mode... does this feel make me remember some game ?)
The logistic operations MUST be strong protected in any war situation or strategic game, except in eve .
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Aitvaras Strategic Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.24 12:12:00 -
[184]
JF would have to be removed entirely to give Bellum what he wants.
I fly a JF, on an alt of course. I doubt Bellum flies a JF at all or he'd somewhat understand what he's complaining about.
These ships cost upwards of 4.5B isk. They usually carry at least that much again in cargo. Nobody is going to undock 9B ISK in a defenseless ship unless they're certain they won't get caught. It's not like the old motherships that were almost invulnerable but you could you still bait and do bumping tricks, JFs won't fight period, because they can't.
JFs are invulnerable in lowsec unless the pilot is an idiot. You cyno to a station, warp to the gate, jump, wave goodbye in local. This is the only part of the equation Bellum sees - JFs must be flown with great care in nullsec since POS jump beacons land you 5kms away from the shields and that gives the world a chance to jump you. JBs are better but they can be bubbles and you can get blobbed by BS.
Anyway, see the bolded part above. If you take away these ship's relative invulnerability in lowsec it will change nothing - people will cyno into empty dead-end systems and then do even lamer tricks with a regular freighter (basically, the web trick + fake jump logoffski). You'll still never catch them unless the pilot is stupid and all it will do is inconvenience everyone.
If you want a jump capable hauler that can't do any cheap lowsec tricks, the risk has to be brought down substantially. It's the same reasoning behind the empire suicide gank nerfs - the aggressor risks virtually nothing except a little time after insurance. If all the risk is on one party CCP has shown plenty of times they'll even it up, either by making the activity riskier or just so hard it's nearly impossible to do without a lot of prior planning.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
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Posted - 2009.08.24 13:16:00 -
[185]
You know, I really wouldn't mind if CCP gave Bellum and a couple other intense whiners a "God" mode option just to keep them from cluttering up the forums with their silly whines about stuff they fail to kill and stuff that easily kills them.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.08.24 13:26:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Kessiaan JF would have to be removed entirely to give Bellum what he wants.
I fly a JF, on an alt of course. I doubt Bellum flies a JF at all or he'd somewhat understand what he's complaining about.
These ships cost upwards of 4.5B isk. They usually carry at least that much again in cargo. Nobody is going to undock 9B ISK in a defenseless ship unless they're certain they won't get caught. It's not like the old motherships that were almost invulnerable but you could you still bait and do bumping tricks, JFs won't fight period, because they can't.
JFs are invulnerable in lowsec unless the pilot is an idiot. You cyno to a station, warp to the gate, jump, wave goodbye in local. This is the only part of the equation Bellum sees - JFs must be flown with great care in nullsec since POS jump beacons land you 5kms away from the shields and that gives the world a chance to jump you. JBs are better but they can be bubbles and you can get blobbed by BS.
Anyway, see the bolded part above. If you take away these ship's relative invulnerability in lowsec it will change nothing - people will cyno into empty dead-end systems and then do even lamer tricks with a regular freighter (basically, the web trick + fake jump logoffski). You'll still never catch them unless the pilot is stupid and all it will do is inconvenience everyone.
If you want a jump capable hauler that can't do any cheap lowsec tricks, the risk has to be brought down substantially. It's the same reasoning behind the empire suicide gank nerfs - the aggressor risks virtually nothing except a little time after insurance. If all the risk is on one party CCP has shown plenty of times they'll even it up, either by making the activity riskier or just so hard it's nearly impossible to do without a lot of prior planning.
Cost never justifies function/game design/balance. If that were the case then my T3 cruiser should be 100x more effective than it is. Same goes for my officer fit Marauders.
The cost is 100% justified by the convenience of not having to do massive logistic ops. This still doesn't mean that they should be (nearly) invulnerable. As for flying a JF- one of my characters can fly multiple JFs. How else am I going to be able to steal them? -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.08.24 15:38:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 24/08/2009 15:42:21
Quote:
Vaerah, please come up with arguements instead of poorly attempted sarcasm. If you're too ****ing poor for a jump freighter it may be an indication that you don't understand the game mechanics well enough to be able to participate in this discussion anyway.
I don't have a JF because I don't need it (oh gosh!), but I am almost done making the 2nd freigther used as item to create one off invention (I create my own ships).
Also, you may ask Red Frog Corp for whose is that hauling alt that applied to their freighting corp... Or wonder why I am Logistics Officer in my corp.
Quote:
You also missed the point, DUE to all these long/instant hauling options there ARE these large 0.0 entities, which makes it boring
It's not like there were big pre-BoB alliances. Oh wait.
Quote:
That's the point. You have it too easy to do logistics. If it was more difficult your crappy internet empire wouldn't be so big. Smaller empires = more room for other smaller empires in 0.0.
Dear Einstein, care to explain how your new corp would even GET to their new 0.0 home if they had to use indys and / or slowpoke normal freigthers?
Just to make sure our freigthers could survive 5-7 jumps in low sec to our new homes (we changed 3 times before going in 0.0) required 30 battleships.
Now enter the new budding 0.0 corp that wants to get those 66 jumps in low and then 0.0 sec (that is, what *we* did) thru Goon / AAA etc. space. Edit: we did as in we had to use cyno ships or die. Will not happen. A nice 30 sov owner dreads hot drop and the whole fleet is over.
Quote:
OP should use a time machine to go back to good'ol 2004.
He could use some of his own medicine and be forced to mine in 0.0 system X, then only have indys available to carry the stuff 10 systems away to refine, then indy again other 10 systems to manufacture. Like in the "golden age". That would show the MEN, those who can endure the savage grinding with bulging hormonal muscles.
Quote: Cost never justifies function/game design/balance
It's why you can buy a Rifter, a Vagabond and a Titan at the same amount.
Quote: If that were the case then my T3 cruiser should be 100x more effective than it is
Instead of crying, learn about exponentially diminishing returns on investment as game balance practiced by CCP and every other developer since a decade.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Isareal Altara
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:38:00 -
[188]
if eve uni can do it... so cans you!
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Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar Mid Knights Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.24 17:02:00 -
[189]
Originally by: viuva Jump freighters and jump bridges , for me were the worst things that ccp could bring to eve .
You dont need any op for logistic, 2 or 3 guys could do the job... they could travel with billions in easy mode.
(easy mode... does this feel make me remember some game ?)
The logistic operations MUST be strong protected in any war situation or strategic game, except in eve .
please, like you'd kill one anyways, instead, you be here in the forums whining that some alliance blob defended their freighter convoy, nerf freighter Hp so you can just suicide charge it ------------------------------------------------ Do not let the world change you. Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the same |
MatrixSkye Mk2
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Posted - 2009.08.24 17:03:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Isareal Altara if eve uni can do it... so cans you!
Yeah but... He wants an easier way to do it.
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m0vin 9o0d5
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Posted - 2009.08.24 17:13:00 -
[191]
hmm, remember the days of no sov. I remember my ninja pos out in catch, fun times. burning past gate camps with my miniscuel hold full of the fuel i needed in a non transport ship because they didn't exist. Good ol Sigil. Man was fueling that pos and hauling the goods out a pain in the ass but just as much fun. |
Jesslyn Daggererux
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.08.24 19:17:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Doggiee EVE is about MMO - MULTIPLAYER and TEAMPLAY, not a few bored dudes with 10 accounts and 3 years of skills but no ability to socialize.
crap. guys, we've been found out. -------------------------
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