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Issler Dainze
Minmatar Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2009.08.21 06:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Issler Dainze stuff
1) I'm pretty sure they're going to buy new servers for Dust. If it sells a lot of copies, they'll buy a lot of servers. This is a direct cash influx, most of which can go to hardware - I don't anticipate scale problems of that sort.
2) Not true in any meaningful sense. That's like saying that you buying clothing takes resources away from food - sure, you could buy more food with that money instead, but if you're already eating, why would you? Our dollars aren't marked "Eve Only", they're CCP's, and they can spend some of them expanding the company if they like.
3) Agreed. This is a concern, but I'm not too worried about it at this point.
4) Largely true, though I think that most people are severely underestimating the effect of parallel alliances.
5) This is a bit alarmist, I think. CCP was created to make Eve, and the White Wolf MMO will be PC as well. I doubt that their flagship product will be forgotten, especially when it's still quite profitable.
1. I love it when someone that has never architected a scalable huge internet system suggests that more servers solves all the problems. Laws of physics say you are wrong assuming more iron makes it all work.
2. Wrong.
3. Move along, nothing to see here!
4. :-)
5. Start studying industry trends, or maybe like me regularly have lunch with your friends actually in the games business (which I was for years) and hear them say what I just said.
Issler
PS. Please elect Herschel for the CSM next term! I don't always agree with him but he has passion and has really thought about Eve. He would make a great CSM!
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2009.08.21 10:37:00 -
[32]
it really is a conspiracy to ruin eve
MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.08.21 11:43:00 -
[33]
Establish a 5/14 Truth Commission NOW!
DUST was an inside job!
If you wind this video footage forward to 00:59 you can clearly see the Megathron is hit by a guided missile, and not a hijacked airliner at all!
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.08.21 14:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Issler Dainze
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Issler Dainze stuff
1) I'm pretty sure they're going to buy new servers for Dust. If it sells a lot of copies, they'll buy a lot of servers. This is a direct cash influx, most of which can go to hardware - I don't anticipate scale problems of that sort.
2) Not true in any meaningful sense. That's like saying that you buying clothing takes resources away from food - sure, you could buy more food with that money instead, but if you're already eating, why would you? Our dollars aren't marked "Eve Only", they're CCP's, and they can spend some of them expanding the company if they like.
5) This is a bit alarmist, I think. CCP was created to make Eve, and the White Wolf MMO will be PC as well. I doubt that their flagship product will be forgotten, especially when it's still quite profitable.
1. I love it when someone that has never architected a scalable huge internet system suggests that more servers solves all the problems. Laws of physics say you are wrong assuming more iron makes it all work.
2. Wrong.
5. Start studying industry trends, or maybe like me regularly have lunch with your friends actually in the games business (which I was for years) and hear them say what I just said.
Issler
PS. Please elect Herschel for the CSM next term! I don't always agree with him but he has passion and has really thought about Eve. He would make a great CSM!
1) Of course some of it depends on how things are constructed - if, for example, you had every Dust player in one place at one time, you'd make a puddle out of Google's server farm. But we're spreading them over 50,000 planets, which is a problem that lends itself neatly to parallelization. Much as I'd love to see the games closely linked(e.g., orbital bombardment), I don't expect it, so the players can be on entirely new, self-contained servers, instead of adding to the Eve ones that do tend to suffer from "everybody in one place at one time" issues. Add to that the fact that everything will be split into sectors, and I don't expect much problem making the servers parallel enough to handle a population bigger than Eve's if the game is a success, any more than Blizzard has a problem running a game 30x our size.
2) Care to elaborate? We pay CCP for a service, and they provide it. What they do with their profits is their business - we don't have any claim to the money we pay them past what's in the EULA. Yes, there were fewer Eve developers than there theoretically could have been, but I don't see why we have any right to get annoyed by that. It's not our money anymore.
5) Oh, I lament the decline of the PC as a gaming platform too, and consider consoles to be generally inferior. My preferred genre(strategy) is still fairly PC-centric, but the idea of playing a FPS with a controller still feels like gimping yourself intentionally. I'm just not worried that CCP will forget Eve, even if other developers forget their PC roots.
And I'm totally going to use that last bit if I run next time, just so you know
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.21 15:51:00 -
[35]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 21/08/2009 15:51:16
Originally by: Issler Dainze
PS. Please elect Herschel for the CSM next term! I don't always agree with him but he has passion and has really thought about Eve. He would make a great CSM!
At least his campaign would be run based on something other than his possession of boobs, unlike some of our current CSM. --Vel You're killing me Smalls!
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.08.21 16:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
At least his campaign would be run based on something other than his possession of boobs, unlike some of our current CSM.
but my boobs are hawt ----------------------
My Blog |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.21 17:33:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
Originally by: De'Veldrin
At least his campaign would be run based on something other than his possession of boobs, unlike some of our current CSM.
but my boobs are hawt
--Vel You're killing me Smalls!
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Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2009.08.21 20:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Omber Zombie
but my boobs are hawt
POSTFU!!!
Oh and De' you don't really seem to know what your talking about so its not really a surprise that your no longer in the gaming industry.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.08.21 20:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Red Raider
Originally by: Omber Zombie
but my boobs are hawt
POSTFU!!!
Oh and De' you don't really seem to know what your talking about so its not really a surprise that your no longer in the gaming industry.
I suggest you eat some of that humble pie yourself Know it all. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.21 21:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Red Raider
Originally by: Omber Zombie
but my boobs are hawt
POSTFU!!!
Oh and De' you don't really seem to know what your talking about so its not really a surprise that your no longer in the gaming industry.
??
I never was in the gaming industry? WTF are you talking about? --Vel You're killing me Smalls!
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Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2009.08.21 22:08:00 -
[41]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Red Raider
Originally by: Omber Zombie
but my boobs are hawt
POSTFU!!!
Oh and De' you don't really seem to know what your talking about so its not really a surprise that your no longer in the gaming industry.
??
I never was in the gaming industry? WTF are you talking about?
My bad. Was talking about Isler Dainze.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2009.08.21 22:11:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Red Raider
Originally by: Omber Zombie
but my boobs are hawt
POSTFU!!!
Oh and De' you don't really seem to know what your talking about so its not really a surprise that your no longer in the gaming industry.
I suggest you eat some of that humble pie yourself Know it all.
Hypocritical much Drake?
Try reading the trash Isler, not De' was posting and get back to me.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.08.22 01:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Red Raider
??
I never was in the gaming industry? WTF are you talking about?
My bad. Was talking about Isler Dainze.
Heh, no worries! I was seriously confused there for a minute though!
I was like... then I was like...
No hard feelings! --Vel You're killing me Smalls!
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.08.22 06:17:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 22/08/2009 06:17:21
Originally by: Red Raider
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Red Raider
Originally by: Omber Zombie
but my boobs are hawt
POSTFU!!!
Oh and De' you don't really seem to know what your talking about so its not really a surprise that your no longer in the gaming industry.
I suggest you eat some of that humble pie yourself Know it all.
Hypocritical much Drake?
Try reading the trash Isler, not De' was posting and get back to me.
Nope.. I stand by my statement... your both right..and your both wrong. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Hiro Cephalus
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Posted - 2009.09.08 22:04:00 -
[45]
Given the latest example of corruption by the CSM, it is imperative that their role in the development of Eve be re-evaluated.
From the original post: "inside knowledge such as this can and will be used to the advantage of the CSM and their Alliances"
No amount of posturing and trolling from the regular Assembly Hall pseuds can deny that this is exactly what has occured.
The CSM was envisaged to keep the development team in check after the t20 incident. By the time the first vote was cast, this role had been downsized to that of simple player liason. Ripe territory for an opportunist to exploit, proving themselves no better than those they were charged to watch.
People get the representation they deserve, so it was only a matter of time before corruption would come to light. How many more economic deals have been made based on insider information? How can we trust any decision made by the CSM in this light?
The charade must end.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.08 22:06:00 -
[46]
Given that the last time you posted in this tread you obviously have no idea what your saying or doing.
Your Charade must end. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Smegnet Incorporated Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.09.09 01:59:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 09/09/2009 02:00:05
Originally by: Hiro Cephalus Given the latest example of corruption by the CSM, it is imperative that their role in the development of Eve be re-evaluated.
From the original post: "inside knowledge such as this can and will be used to the advantage of the CSM and their Alliances"
No amount of posturing and trolling from the regular Assembly Hall pseuds can deny that this is exactly what has occured.
The CSM was envisaged to keep the development team in check after the t20 incident. By the time the first vote was cast, this role had been downsized to that of simple player liason. Ripe territory for an opportunist to exploit, proving themselves no better than those they were charged to watch.
People get the representation they deserve, so it was only a matter of time before corruption would come to light. How many more economic deals have been made based on insider information? How can we trust any decision made by the CSM in this light?
The charade must end.
Are you kidding me? The CSM was NEVER designed to be the "CCP internal investigation squad" (They have a Human resources division for that reason) that everyone says they are. The CSM is supposed to be the players voice to the Devs of CCP. That is all. Nothing else. They bring up ideas, suggestions, bug problems and more to the attention of the Devs.
Given the fact that CCP is willing to work with players is saying a lot since many companies ignore their player base completely.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.09 02:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Hiro Cephalus whiny stuff
You have an extraordinarily large forehead.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.09.09 02:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
1) Of course some of it depends on how things are constructed - if, for example, you had every Dust player in one place at one time, you'd make a puddle out of Google's server farm. But we're spreading them over 50,000 planets, which is a problem that lends itself neatly to parallelization. Much as I'd love to see the games closely linked(e.g., orbital bombardment), I don't expect it, so the players can be on entirely new, self-contained servers, instead of adding to the Eve ones that do tend to suffer from "everybody in one place at one time" issues. Add to that the fact that everything will be split into sectors, and I don't expect much problem making the servers parallel enough to handle a population bigger than Eve's if the game is a success, any more than Blizzard has a problem running a game 30x our size.
I really hope they aren't thinking of centrally hosting a server farm for an FPS game.
You can play Eve with a 500ms ping. You can NOT play an FPS effectively with a ping above 250ms.
Local servers, hosted by community members, with a system for safe & secure transmission of play data back to Eve's servers is a must. As an Australian I can tell you I've never successfully played an FPS game on a overseas server. They *must* be geo-located.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.09.09 03:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Hiro Cephalus Given the latest example of corruption by the CSM, it is imperative that their role in the development of Eve be re-evaluated.
From the original post: "inside knowledge such as this can and will be used to the advantage of the CSM and their Alliances"
No amount of posturing and trolling from the regular Assembly Hall pseuds can deny that this is exactly what has occured.
The CSM was envisaged to keep the development team in check after the t20 incident. By the time the first vote was cast, this role had been downsized to that of simple player liason. Ripe territory for an opportunist to exploit, proving themselves no better than those they were charged to watch.
People get the representation they deserve, so it was only a matter of time before corruption would come to light. How many more economic deals have been made based on insider information? How can we trust any decision made by the CSM in this light?
The charade must end.
Yes, a member of the CSM used insider information to try to make money. He got booted from the CSM and a 30-day game ban within 12 hours of doing so. The system seems to have worked just fine in this case.
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith I really hope they aren't thinking of centrally hosting a server farm for an FPS game.
You can play Eve with a 500ms ping. You can NOT play an FPS effectively with a ping above 250ms.
Local servers, hosted by community members, with a system for safe & secure transmission of play data back to Eve's servers is a must. As an Australian I can tell you I've never successfully played an FPS game on a overseas server. They *must* be geo-located.
So how exactly do you have a fight between, say, BoB dusters and Goon dusters, when one is 90% Euro and the other is 90% US? If they're fighting each other, it has to be on a single server, and if they're not fighting each other, the whole thing is a farce.
That said, I agree with you. They're either going to have to make a non-twitch FPS(good luck), regionally segregate it(WTF?) or have issues with ping(ugh). That's one of a few structural concerns I have with Dust. I'm not going to Chicken Little it up like people were doing when it was announced, but I do have concerns, and this is one of them. We'll see.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.09.09 03:29:00 -
[51]
32yo vrs 14yo = +200ms Drunk/Stoned vrs Sober = +300ms Aussie vrs US = +250ms
So.... I see an enemy and react.... He saw and shot me 3/4 of a second before :-)
= no FPS for older drunk aussies :-P
It's simply impossible to play FPS with 250ms added to your ping. Everyone else gets upto 1/2 a second of advantage.
Local servers are 100% required, without them we just can't play.
Who really wants to play with xbox squeakers anyway.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.09 03:49:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Yes, a member of the CSM used insider information to try to make money. He got booted from the CSM and a 30-day game ban within 12 hours of doing so. The system seems to have worked just fine in this case.
Hell.. he should have been perma-banned... if not that.. should have had his ass sued for breech of NDA at that rate. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.09.09 06:20:00 -
[53]
Originally by: mazzilliu it really is a conspiracy to ruin eve
Yes. The 0,0 members conspiracy. Just look at you and to others CSM members. All is 0.0 members like Vuk Lau, You and others. The CSM members just 0.0 puppets who it was made compulsory for their alliance members, that it is possible to vote for just their delegated members only, not for anyone else. When the other playerbase (low sec,high sec) want to change a positive thing in game, this 0.0 it is not allowed and it is voted down.
Like AFK cloaking + MWD cloak, logoffsky, and other dirty,tricky and cheater things. Just see it what the first thing what to want to do it.
Vote for more ISK to 0.0 and lot of 0.0 idiotism. CSM a 0.0 b*llsh*t nothing else.
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.09 08:10:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Yes. The 0,0 members conspiracy. Just look at you and to others CSM members. All is 0.0 members like Vuk Lau, You and others. The CSM members just 0.0 puppets who it was made compulsory for their alliance members, that it is possible to vote for just their delegated members only, not for anyone else. When the other playerbase (low sec,high sec) want to change a positive thing in game, this 0.0 it is not allowed and it is voted down.
Like AFK cloaking + MWD cloak, logoffsky, and other dirty,tricky and cheater things. Just see it what the first thing what to want to do it.
Vote for more ISK to 0.0 and lot of 0.0 idiotism. CSM a 0.0 b*llsh*t nothing else.
I have no real interest in 0.0, other than as source of targets, but you are either not very bright, or you are an alt of some one who is not very bright.
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Hiro Cephalus
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Posted - 2009.09.09 16:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Hell.. he should have been perma-banned... if not that.. should have had his ass sued for breech of NDA at that rate.
I'm pleased to state this is something we can both agree on. We both care deeply about the cause of user representation in online spaces, otherwise your participation in this thread would not be so involved.
So, Drake, in the interests of debate; how do you feel the CSM can be redeemed?
Do you feel that CCP will be more eager or less eager to share future design decisions with the CSM in the wake of this betrayal? And if the sharing of this information is withheld, then what purpose could the CSM have in the future?
We are starting to approach the limitations of a player-run democracy. Is there a way forward?
I'm very interested in your opinion.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.09 17:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hiro Cephalus
Originally by: Drake Draconis Hell.. he should have been perma-banned... if not that.. should have had his ass sued for breech of NDA at that rate.
I'm pleased to state this is something we can both agree on. We both care deeply about the cause of user representation in online spaces, otherwise your participation in this thread would not be so involved.
Good
Originally by: Hiro Cephalus So, Drake, in the interests of debate; how do you feel the CSM can be redeemed?
The sooner we get people to STFU and stop whining about the CSM needing to be disbanded the sooner someone will get the balls to stand up and push for more intelligent representation and less egotistical e-peen waving popularity crap.
I may be a troll at times but I only do what I do because I am sick and tired of people posting stupid little whine fests waving ego festered e-peens all over the place all the while having there hoards of even more foolish pilots showing up.
I don't hate the individual... I hate the fact they are so dimwitteded and narrow sighted that it makes one scream when it comes to rationality of the situation.
No I'm not an expert or a know it all.. and I apologize if I come accross as such... but no one can deny the massive population of people who make assumptions and quick conclusions without thinking things through... 9 times out of 10 I see people posting posts for one single reason... they lost something... or they failed to do something becuase SOMEONE did something somewhere.
EVE Online is a game "FFS"! People are so damn greedy they lose focus of that fact.
Originally by: Hiro Cephalus Do you feel that CCP will be more eager or less eager to share future design decisions with the CSM in the wake of this betrayal? And if the sharing of this information is withheld, then what purpose could the CSM have in the future?
Who the hell has the right to dictate what CCP does or say? Yes I'm a paying customer... Yes I'd like to know what to expect when I log into the game each and every day... but I couldn't care less about what CCP does beyond that point.
Dust 514 (or whatever its called) is just an another game... yes it may affect EVE Online in some form or fashion but what we have are nothing but Assumptions... and if there's one thing I've learned... people who make assumptions on assumptions are making themselves out to be an ass "outa u and me".
I'm sorry but that's the harsh cold reality of it.
Until CCP fully discloses the details... we literally have no right to dictate or guess or judge something that literally does not exist.
There are far more important things to worry about over some stupid opinion over some game that may get canceled or not even affect the grand scheme of the game in the long run.
Hell I welcome it! The idea of interacting with people on the ground with people in space has my Corporation (Clan rather) rejoicing... some of us cant really afford to play THIS game... but they can afford THAT game. 0.0 is stagnant... its the same ol tune next verse... this disrupts status quo.
I refuse to deny such a new thing because it just might make the game even better than before.
Heck you guys have had it too easy... whats wrong with a little challenge? I'm a small potatoes CEO of this Corp... we have to struggle to survive...
Rome didn't last forever... it fell in time... times change...
Originally by: Hiro Cephalus We are starting to approach the limitations of a player-run democracy. Is there a way forward?
There is no such thing as a true democracy. Someone has someone's pocket lined in some form or fashion... its nothing more than a stupid popularity contest. Whose got the largest e-peen and whose got the most ISK.
That said... the CSM will never fully satisfy everyone and it will surely continue to generate people just like you.
<cont.> ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
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Posted - 2009.09.09 17:15:00 -
[57]
The CSM will continue to have my support as There will always be at least 1 rational thinking individual in that bunch who will see us small time guys and say "Hey... he's got a good idea".
My Idea (Skill Injection) was carried to the top 10 list to be delivered to CCP.
Even if it gets shot down... my measily little troll voice got carried up to the ears where it needed to be.
That means the CSM is doing there job.
Am I assuming they are doing so? No.
I have faith they will do there job... because there's not much else to do.
The CSM may not accomplish a great deal but there job is not to change this game... or change policy... or do the things over half the people demand.
The CSM's job is to represent the player base and talk to the Dev's... whether CCP accepts them or not is CCP's decision... not ours... not CSM.
I realize its such a contradictory/halfassed way of thinking about it... but until you get there.. the CSM will never make sense nor will it work in your eyes.
You wanted my opinion? You got it.
Whether you accept it or reject it is none of my concern. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Cyprus Black
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.10 03:38:00 -
[58]
You're basing the entire argument against CSMs on DUST 514? We still don't know enough about it to make any educated decisions one way or another regarding DUST 514 changes.
I'm no fan of the CSMs and the CSM process, but this argument does not hold water. ___________________________________
Originally by: Kortne EVE is an amazing game, but other players ruin it.
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