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Amelia O
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Posted - 2009.08.25 05:38:00 -
[1]
I'm new with the amarr ships using:
8x named megapulses 3x cap rechargers II , 1x tracking computer II 1x large rep II , 4x hardeners(n-type , missions specific) , 2x heat sinks 5x hammerhead II drones
I need to warp out a lot! Sometimes I feel like butter getting cut by a hot knife. Also rats orbiting at 50 are a pain to kill (I get 215dps with amarr navy microwave) how do I raise my survivability ? is there an optimal kill order ? is warping out a lot , normal ?
well , I need all help I can get , I'm getting depressed flying this ship.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.08.25 05:55:00 -
[2]
I've used a tank like that on an Apoc with zero problems.
How are your tanking skills, capacitor skills and gunnery skills? *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Kratznotzt
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Posted - 2009.08.25 06:00:00 -
[3]
I fly an apocalypse myself and I used to know the feeling of weakness before I got t2 hardeners. The main thing I did to be able to stay in the killing grounds was using two reppers, one was on all the time and I started the other one every now and then when needed. The killing speed will suffer a little but you won't have to warp out all the time.
The rats at 50 are easiest to deal with by using longer ranged crystals, like microwaves or radios. I tend to change ammunition between microwave, ultraviolet and multifrequency a few times during a single mission. If you have drone skills to use medium drones at about 53 km distance you shouldn't have any problems with battleships at 50+ km, although some battleships have really good resistance to lasers.
I don't really know what to say other than that. Your fitting looks great to me, especially if you use ccc rigs too. The only other thing that might affect your performance are the trained skills, and not following the mission reports, but I guess you know more about skills and missions than me.
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Amelia O
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Posted - 2009.08.25 06:02:00 -
[4]
well , I cant use T2 hardeners yet. armor tanking skills are at lvl4 cap skills are ok , I can permarun the ship just fine, could drop a CCC rig I guess now that I notice it. I have most gun support skills are lvl4 , large energy turret at 4 too.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.25 06:17:00 -
[5]
If you cant use scorch, fit megabeams. Seriously. Your wasting your time with named pulses. My last apoc was fit like so: 8x megabeam IIs 4x cap rechargers LAR, 3 hardeners, 2 heat sinks, 1 RCU
optimal was somewhere in the 40s, meaning rats at 50km were right there. 5x hammerhead IIs for everything else. You might not need the RCU with named megabeam, but its been a while since i trained up AWU 5.. so you still might. Your problem is that your not doing enough damage. As you said, 215 dps with amarr navy microwave. Id say the average mission rat battleship has somewhere between 100 and 150 dps tank - leaving you doing a measly 75 dps...
Anyway, yea, fit megabeams.
Originally by: Akita T
Seriously ?
...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
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AtheistOfDoom
Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.08.25 06:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Amelia O well , I cant use T2 hardeners yet. armor tanking skills are at lvl4 cap skills are ok , I can permarun the ship just fine, could drop a CCC rig I guess now that I notice it. I have most gun support skills are lvl4 , large energy turret at 4 too.
t2 hardeners help A LOT, I also use a similar setup and have only had problems on extremely hard missions like serpentis assault. Having an aux nano pump rig instead of a ccc helps a lot with tanking too.
You might be having problems with aggro... obligatory: EVE-survival Pew Pew Lazorz!!! |
Arthamel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.08.25 06:40:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Arthamel on 25/08/2009 06:44:41 Edited by: Arthamel on 25/08/2009 06:44:20 Edited by: Arthamel on 25/08/2009 06:43:47 Best defence is attack, as dead rats don't deal any dmg. Top off your dps to kill crusiers in 1-2 volley, use med drones for ones that move too close and pwn battleships in matter of seconds. You wont be needing cap stability for longer than 2-3 mins. Get 3-4 heat sinks, train for t2 guns. Use 2x t2 specific mission hardener (3 if you really have to) and one large armor rep. Never go for omni tank, its lowering your performance and speed overall.
Edit - you can use laser turret optimal rigs, having everything in range with pulses really helps, as well as one aux nano to help da tank. Edit2/3 - typos
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Eli Porter
Amarr Altruism. Avarice.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 06:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Eli Porter on 25/08/2009 06:44:56 Did you rig it? Stick an Auxiliary Nano Pump and all your issues should resolve. Also fit a CCC, and for the last slot fit a Collision Accelerator/Nano Pump/CCC(If you still have cap issues).
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Amelia O
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Posted - 2009.08.25 06:51:00 -
[9]
I'm using pulses cause of lower grid requirement and better tracking.
I'm using 3 CCC rigs. I could drop 2 CCC's to get 1 locus and 1 aux nano pump to get 12m cap time with guns and rep running. this would give me a 50km optimal range infrared range (251 dps).
is there any way to improve my drone range above 45km without using a drone link augmentor ? having drones at 50km would help A LOT.
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Eli Porter
Amarr Altruism. Avarice.
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Posted - 2009.08.25 07:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Amelia O I'm using pulses cause of lower grid requirement and better tracking.
I'm using 3 CCC rigs. I could drop 2 CCC's to get 1 locus and 1 aux nano pump to get 12m cap time with guns and rep running. this would give me a 50km optimal range infrared range (251 dps).
is there any way to improve my drone range above 45km without using a drone link augmentor ? having drones at 50km would help A LOT.
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing(Skill)
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Niclas Solo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.25 07:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Eli Porter
Originally by: Amelia O I'm using pulses cause of lower grid requirement and better tracking.
I'm using 3 CCC rigs. I could drop 2 CCC's to get 1 locus and 1 aux nano pump to get 12m cap time with guns and rep running. this would give me a 50km optimal range infrared range (251 dps).
is there any way to improve my drone range above 45km without using a drone link augmentor ? having drones at 50km would help A LOT.
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing(Skill)
Yes getting that drone skill to atleast lvl 2 will make a lot of different. And also i don't think you know who's the trigger, always check with eve-survival until you know it. When i started doing L4 i had a fit like that and i never had to jump out, well in AE bonus room yes but it's just a bonus room and it also pay crap so not worth doing.
But don't listen to the noob that said you should use beams instead of t1 pulse he just doesn't know what he is talking about.
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Gold Rogers
Solitude Empires Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.08.25 08:10:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Gold Rogers on 25/08/2009 08:14:17
Originally by: Eli Porter
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing(Skill)
Originally by: Niclas Solo
Yes getting that drone skill to atleast lvl 2 will make a lot of different.
Wrong skill they need Scout Drone Operation.
What are you missioning against?
For Amarr missions I used to use something like:
Mega Pulse II (AN MF loaded most of the time)
3 x cap rechargers II 1 x tracking comp II
1 x LAR II 3 x Hardeners II 3 x Heat sink II
1 x CCC 2 x Locus
And most things would die before getting anywhere near me
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.08.25 08:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gold Rogers Wrong skill they need Scout Drone Operation.
No, it applies to all drones.
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Josorna
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Posted - 2009.08.25 09:33:00 -
[14]
I'd also recommend Megabeams instead of megapulses before getting t2. No matter if they use more grid over pulses, but they're just so much better at t1 stage than pulses (except when doing AE4 / Damsel4 where even t1 pulses work better).
And about the t2 vs t1 hardeners, I finished my Hull Upgrades V a few days ago, but haven't really noticed a big difference in survivability (but then again, I have Abaddon with 2x hardeners + navy EANM and a single t2 repper). Sure, I do take a little less damage but nothing too big of a difference.
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Asami Suzuki
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Posted - 2009.08.25 10:11:00 -
[15]
IMO, if you don't have tech 2 pulses don't use pulse at all for missions in a battleship. Go for beams. Even if you can't fit as much as you could with pulses they are still way more effective because what makes pulses so great for missions is scorch ammo, which you can only use with tech 2 pulses. Without it, pulses aren't so hot for missions in a battleship because you aren't going to get into a good range with a slow battleship where pulses can shine and you don't have scorch to make you shine from far away.
Also, make sure you are pulling the pockets correctly. Read eve survival carefully and choose the right targets to hit before the mission becomes a pirate party. And if you are pulling correctly, it's probably your DPS which is lacking because of the pulse DPS. |
Stargazer Monk
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Posted - 2009.08.25 11:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Niclas Solo But don't listen to the noob that said you should use beams instead of t1 pulse he just doesn't know what he is talking about.
Don't be so quick to call someone a noob lol. In fact he does know what he is talking about...unlike you.
If you can't fit T2 pulse you are better off fitting beams for almost all missions. Drones don't fight at 45km+ on Amarr Battleships lol, they kill smaller ships that make it past your guns. The thing with using beams in missions is that you give yourself a lot of breathing room, it's called "distance tanking". Popping most ships before they can even scratch you reducing a LOT of incoming damage.
OP - like a couple other people said check out the mission guide if you are having trouble, you may be shooting the wrong ships first increasing the DPS dished out. That tank you have should be fine for all lvl4s. Switch to mega modulated beams (while you train T2 pulse) and pop the ships at 50-60km with your guns. You will most certainly notice the reduction in damage taken. Use drones for any small ships that get under your guns, don't rely on them for ranged DPS.
Also worth noting that you should make sure that your Gunnery support skills are up to scratch. The thing with lasers is that they do rely heavily on good support skills to be effective. Controlled Burst Motion Prediction Surgical Strike Rapid Firing Sharpshooter Trajectory Analysis Signature Analysis Weapons Upgrades and Advanced Weapons Upgrades for fitting.
Ultimately in an Amarr mission boat you will be using range and DPS for your tank once you are skilled up. I only use an EANM and 2 specific hardeners for all my missions. DPS and range keep me safe. Hell I even get annoyed having to release the drones if a ship makes it past my guns. T2 pulse do work well on the Apoc because of it's range bonus where you can still use faction ammo at a decent range and scorch occasionally for hitting out further. Other than that scorch ammo is terribly cost ineffective for mission running....great for PvP though.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Stargazer Monk
Originally by: Niclas Solo But don't listen to the noob that said you should use beams instead of t1 pulse he just doesn't know what he is talking about.
Don't be so quick to call someone a noob lol. In fact he does know what he is talking about...unlike you.
If you can't fit T2 pulse you are better off fitting beams for almost all missions.
Agreed - without Scorch, pulses lose a lot of their attractiveness. If you're using T1 ammo, beams will do more raw damage than pulses at a little bit past pulse optimal with multifrequency (and definitely by the time you get to beam MF optimal and beyond), and let you hit at all out to longer distances so you can start attacking that enemy group at 80km+ rather than having to wait for them to get within 40-50km.
They do have lower tracking, true, but while tracking is nice it's not worth trading range and damage for. In most missions, ships start far enough away, and head towards you in such a straight line, that if you work your way up from smallest to largest you can usually destroy all smaller ships before they get close enough to give tracking problems. And nearly all non-Angel battleships orbit far enough away that: a) tracking isn't a problem with beams, and b) you'd have to drop several crystals with pulses to hit them so the beams do more damage.
Put it this way, if Tachyons work on a non-tracking bonused Paladin (and they do), then the better-tracking Megabeams will also track fine for level 4 missions. If you start missing frigates/cruisers because they've got too close, set the drones on them and aim for larger targets.
The extra powergrid needed is a legitimate concern, but depending on what you have fitted you can probably drop a CCC for an ACR, or a CPR for an RCU - since you're killing things further away, and quicker, you're not going to need to run that rep quite as much. Along the same lines you could probably drop an armour hardener for an RCU if neither of the above seem feasible, though this isn't as great as it reduces your burst tank too. Finally you could probably even drop a heat sink for an RCU and still be killing quicker with beams than with T1 pulses.
The ability to project damage at range is imperative in missions, so using guns that simply do more damage at anything beyond about 25-30km is a great tradeoff in most situations. For Damsel in Distress pulses will be great since nearly everything is in optimal anyway, but for the majority of missions it should be beams all the way.
T2 pulses change this around since with good skills and a tracking computer you can hit out to 70km with Scorch (i.e. with close-range gun damage), which is easily far enough to be viable and does more damage with more tracking than beams at those ranges, and everywhere below.
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