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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.02 11:25:00 -
[61]
My alliance set up a POS in a very nice bonused w-space system not long after w-space became available. Within the first 24 hours we had completely cleaned out the entire system and weren't able to get any new complexes spawned, of *any* sort, for 10-12 days. This was back when T3 loot was really worth farming. We haven't been back for PVE since.
Currently there isn't any reason to justify the massive headache of logistics and risk of w-space operations when compared to the ISK/hour and complete safety of L4 missions in high sec. If you take the same number of people and apply their time to grinding L4s, you're way further ahead ISK-wise, with zero hassle and zero risk.
Moving around in w-space: it's a hassle. I have to run down every single cosmic signature just so I can ignore all the exploration sites to find a wormhole so I can continue to explore w-space. Earlier this evening I actually had probes TIME OUT because I was probing continually for over an hour trying to sort through all the garbage plex sites to find a wormhole out of the system. And I have maxed probing skills.
There definitely needs to be a sub-class for wormholes in addition to cosmic signatures. It takes plenty of time to probe out a C5 or C6 wormhole. There needs to be a separate class for wormholes for the probing filter or all *other* exploration sites need to reveal themselves as such as soon as you get a hit on them from a probe, regardless of strength. At least that way we can ignore them and continue looking for wormholes.
On a side note: I went looking for a fight all day today in w-space. I went through 14 systems. 8 had POSes in them, none of them had any players. I'm still topped off with ammo, save the four probes I lost trying to find the next wormhole. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Kayakaue
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Posted - 2009.09.02 13:53:00 -
[62]
I see some improvement.
They are not enough signature if you would like to keep in the wormhole during a long time.
That will be great to had also some standard belt inside ore and ice Why not to add some new signature where it's possible to find some moon mining element. You can build you T3 inside the wormhole. But it's impossible to put the sub system, you must to go outside find a station on come back. Need improvement about refinery (biggest capacity) or add one compression module.
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Melisa Ravenflame
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Posted - 2009.09.02 19:03:00 -
[63]
Wormholes are just another 0.0 instance where most smaller corps cannot survive. If CCP were to look at the numbers, and they just updated their database, they would see its the same people in either chinese farming fleets or the Mega corps making all the money. Casual players do not want to have to scan down everything every time and then go in just to find a death star has taken up permanent residence with the usual mega corp.
If it was CCP's desire to add new content for EVERYONE to access/prosper/enjoy then I would have to say it fails.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.02 19:06:00 -
[64]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 02/09/2009 19:05:45
Originally by: Melisa Ravenflame If CCP were to look at the numbers, and they just updated their database, they would see its the same people in either chinese farming fleets or the Mega corps making all the money.
lol
oh how very wrong you are _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Vasta Magna
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Posted - 2009.09.02 20:34:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Melisa Ravenflame Wormholes are just another 0.0 instance where most smaller corps cannot survive. If CCP were to look at the numbers, and they just updated their database, they would see its the same people in either chinese farming fleets or the Mega corps making all the money. Casual players do not want to have to scan down everything every time and then go in just to find a death star has taken up permanent residence with the usual mega corp.
If it was CCP's desire to add new content for EVERYONE to access/prosper/enjoy then I would have to say it fails.
Totally disagree with this. I play ~10 hours a week. I've been doing wormholes for months solo or with a single friend. Mega-corps are an uncommon sight for me, I think they've found single systems will not sustain 20+ players consistently and so the number of large expeditions has decreased after the initial boom.
The people I encounter are in ones and twos 90% of the time. The exceptions are pirates popping in for a gank, and convoys headed to K-space from elsewhere in W-space.
POS ... yes, they are everywhere, but are they manned? Most of the time they just sit there empty, maybe a couple reactors chugging away. The POS guns aren't going to scan you down and kill you
The end result is wormholes can be very casual friendly, in fact the signature spawn frequency almost punishes large groups of hardcore players.
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ShahinShah
Gallente Al Jazeerah Organization
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Posted - 2009.09.04 10:01:00 -
[66]
I should say that W-Space has given a very good solution for the problem of many people in empire that are not able to live in 0.0 space. Now they have the chance to experience and maybe live in a 0.0 space i.e. W-Space. Players who do not want to engage in mega alliance conflicts, or small corporations who want to expand their operations have found a good way through W-Space.
The Mining in the W-Space is very good "if you find a good system with plenty of grav sites". But it is not that easy to find a good "uninhabited" system imho.
I personally find sleepers challenging and fun. But we should expect that in time, with players experience against sleepers, they will develop what I may call "a farming rhythm" to kill them quickly and repeatedly. So yeah, if CCP wants to keep W-Space challenging, they must keep updating and changing sleeper behaviors or changing different waves, so they will keep players thrilled and interested.
Thank you ccp for the W-Space :D __________________ The King of Kings |
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:32:00 -
[67]
Static wormholes are irritating, because they effectively close off a number of systems to colonization. Unless, of course, the colonists are insane. I'll use myself as an example.
I lived for a month in two systems, C2 and C3, that NEVER ONCE connected to highsec or lowsec. The only wormholes they got were to 0.0 and a C5. Both times, I eventually left by waiting for someone to scan down my system and then using the K162 wormhole that generated, but my point is that this is hardly a reliable method of access to the system. Am I asking for every wormhole to consistently have a highsec or lowsec exit? No.
What I am asking for is more randomness in the spawns of wormholes. Make them dynamic, just like in highsec. 'Static' wormholes encourage colonization, but they also result in some systems being undesirable for settlement, and frequently untouched for a significant period of time. I'm willing to accept uncertainty in when I'll get out, but I would like to always have a chance - significantly decreased perhaps in C4-C6 wormholes, but present nonetheless - at getting a wormhole to highsec or lowsec.
Originally by: Karanth Or, in other words, random people can't usurp rights from government because they are insane/bitter/vengeful/made of potato salad.
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NapalmStrike
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:54:00 -
[68]
The Number of people who seem to care enough to reply, shows the in-effectiveness of the Wormhole system. The patch didnt really add accessible space to the game, it just added another tier between mega corps and the normal players.
If CCP learns one lesson from this, as did alot of other MMORPG's, the CASUAL player IS the bread and butter of any online game.
I would think overall the game is peaking at "mine-mine-mine, run another repetitive mission for mediocore drops"
Maybe next patch something for everyone??
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Passin Through
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:57:00 -
[69]
I only got started in Worm Holes in the past month.
I Love it. It is like Christmas every day.
Every day I can go out and scan for new sites and WH's. And then we can look in the next door WH to see what riches we can find. We have yet to run out of sites to run.... we just don't have the man power to run them all. We have one large POS doing gas reactions and even with not running the C6 sites that give you the best isk... we are making lots of isk
Why do people talk about 'farming' as if that is a negative. This is what large Alliances are doing in 0.0 space with moons. They can hold the space and take the resources. Corps are suppose to be able to make isk when they build up their Tech 3 industry.
I find that WH's are great for the smaller corps as you are in a small system able to work and clear sites relatively in peace. And if you end up with a PvP roaming group... wait a day and the hole closes and you are off to another area of space. To me Worm Holes are like an oasis in space away from the maddening crowd of high sec and even the politics of 0.0 space.
CCP please do not nerf Tech 3 any more though. If you make the cost of the ships less then you will make the benefits of being in WHÆs less and people will leave them.
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Dors V
Regante
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Posted - 2009.09.09 11:57:00 -
[70]
I have to agree with my collegue, since starting out in WH's from launch, with nothing but the shirts on our backs and a very limited investment, over the months and months that have gone by, investing more isk bit by bit (you can never grow without putting out) and gaining experience, and the constant learning, WH's are a Fantastic place for Corps small and large to experience parts of the game that they never would have been able to before.
If your currently in WH space and find your running out of sites, Explore! Best advise is to go out a few jumps, there are Always multiple adventures to be had. If you find your in a WH that's very populated (C1-3's) move on there are plenty out there, the only thing stopping you from reaching your goals and asperations is you!
Thank you CCP for one of the best patches to date, of course there are as always a few glitches to iron out but other than that a very welcomed expansion!
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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:07:00 -
[71]
Ok a few thoughts on sleeper space
* undo the nerf which allowed high sec - w sys - 00 formations to occour i liked passing thro to ratting ground
Biggest complaint is not enough wormholes in 00 space connecting itno wormhole space, and yet they are dime a dozen in empire - with the new sov mechanics it will allow non black ops team to infiltrate behind enemy lines
POS - theres lots of active poses in there, the odd offline one. I do explore for these and there are corps - alliances out there that shoot them and remove them ( if a control tower is on its own though and abandoned for 6 weeks please intorudce something that will allow anyone to come along rep it up if need be and scoop it for their own use. This will allow clean up, and if old residents leave someone else can move in and take the moon. ( if u have spare isk however feel free to spam wormholes with poses so ccp has to do something about it)
Sleepers - well we need pirate factions setting up their own bases, perhaps using advanced ships and AI themselves along with sleeper sites various pirate faction anamolies would spawn.
More systems - mooted bring it
Tech 3 industry side of things - we need more items ( t3 ammo drones mods perhaps ?) new ship subclasses requiring tech 3 materials to produce
Tech 3 destroeyers and battlecruisers - yes please.
Most wormhole space is empty perhaps a rare chance for c2 sites to drop loot from the higher sites - like a 1 in 1000 chance of a bonus full ship bpc find just for those solo players.
Main thing probably more variance within womrhole space of exit holes allowing high sec to 00 high sec to low sec low sec to 00 etc traversion
And maybe more time varied wormholes 4,6,10,14,18 hour holes and smaller mass ones ( bs sized but perhaps more 1b rather than 2b wormholes) encourage more movement.
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Sinfury Enforcer
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Posted - 2009.09.14 23:54:00 -
[72]
I would have to say that if CCP was trying to expand the universe for everyone then Wormholes Failed. I was also surprised to read that some 0.0 people were whining about how hisec has more openings than lowsec...
Lowsec already has minerals and gasses worth 10x what can be found in hisec and now they want access to everything?
CCP needs to realize that they placed another elite patch in. Unless you have access to a Battleship and great scanning abilities, only 5% of the people have the playtime or resources to utilize Wormholes.
All of the advertisements called this "An increase in Universe Size by 50%!!!" It should have read "An increase in playable content for everyone by 5%!!"
I agree with the other poster about low post count as well. Less than .001% gave feedback?
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.09.15 01:08:00 -
[73]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 15/09/2009 01:13:08
Originally by: Sinfury Enforcer I would have to say that if CCP was trying to expand the universe for everyone then Wormholes Failed. I was also surprised to read that some 0.0 people were whining about how hisec has more openings than lowsec...
Lowsec already has minerals and gasses worth 10x what can be found in hisec and now they want access to everything?
CCP needs to realize that they placed another elite patch in. Unless you have access to a Battleship and great scanning abilities, only 5% of the people have the playtime or resources to utilize Wormholes.
All of the advertisements called this "An increase in Universe Size by 50%!!!" It should have read "An increase in playable content for everyone by 5%!!"
I agree with the other poster about low post count as well. Less than .001% gave feedback?
Your post is a totail fail. We settled into a wormhole while our corp was bunch of noobs ( skillwise ) excpet two people with more.
So its not for elites at all.
You have get out of your carebear ass and start thinking.
Quote: Lowsec already has minerals ... worth 10x what can be found in hisec
This is my favorite. Be my guest and mine more jaspet.
I only aggre on one point. Casual player are heaving trouble utilizing wormholes properly , unless they live in one. It deosnt change the fact they are great !.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.15 02:39:00 -
[74]
Thank you JitaPriceChecker for addressing the failpost above you so I don't have to. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.15 13:55:00 -
[75]
i think the remaining issue is a single wh seems instead of outbound wh having perhaps 3 choices ( low sec , c4, 00) for example ccp has nerfed it to constantly have a single destination ive been i na wh today and have collapsed in a sizeable amount of time 18 wormholes and each time it has spawned back t high sec, there is no variance no randomness, no encounters with other players, ccp u have dumbed it down gone into reverse and broken it why is this so ?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: HeliosGal i think the remaining issue is a single wh seems instead of outbound wh having perhaps 3 choices ( low sec , c4, 00) for example ccp has nerfed it to constantly have a single destination ive been i na wh today and have collapsed in a sizeable amount of time 18 wormholes and each time it has spawned back t high sec, there is no variance no randomness, no encounters with other players, ccp u have dumbed it down gone into reverse and broken it why is this so ?
They haven't changed anything. What you are experiencing is a static wormhole. I'm going to assume you haven't heard the concept yet and explain it as best I can.
Basically if the wormhole ID is not K162, it has a very high chance of respawning the exact same type in that system again. This is called a static wormhole. Some systems have statics to class 1 or 2 or 3, or high sec, low sec, null sec, etc etc. Some systems have multiple static wormholes.
This has been the case since implementation. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Sangii
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:38:00 -
[77]
I came back from a recent invitation. I love them. They provide a high risk and high reward factor for those of us unable or unwilling to deal with 0.0 alliances and politics. I started out just popping in and doing combat sties, eventually dove into one for half a week, then finally setup a small POS to clear one. I have been running it with minimal combat and scanning skills in a battle cruiser so they are very accessible to lower (or non-combat)skilled players. Based on what spawns or what you need to accomplish that day your routine is varied. This prevents burn out from either running the same missions or mining every day.
If they have been aimed at raiding parties, crazy soloers and small corporations I think that you have hit the head on the mark. The randomness of their appearance makes for a nice excuse for a night of gathering up some friends and going out for some fun. The low respawn rate/repopulation rate after a WH has been cleared keeps the size of a profitable group of people small. This means you typically run into a small group of friends rather than a large wrecking crew/alliance.
My one issue is with the increase of drop rates of items to decrease the price of T3 production. While I understand that you wish to decrease the cost of T3 cruisers this is hurting the people who are at the bottom of the T3 production chain, the gatherers. Most of the intermediary T3 production pieces (polymers, components, even rev. eng. pieces) are not profitable to manufacture and sell compared to their components. So the profit comes at either the beginning of the chain (gas, currently just one salvage material and invention pieces). Or at the end of the chain for completed T3 sub-systems and ships. Perhaps a re-balancing of gathered items needed for production to price them all moderately rather than most worth very little and a few worth a lot would balance this out a little better along the whole chain.
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.16 10:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sangii I came back from a recent invitation. I love them. They provide a high risk and high reward factor for those of us unable or unwilling to deal with 0.0 alliances and politics. I started out just popping in and doing combat sties, eventually dove into one for half a week, then finally setup a small POS to clear one. I have been running it with minimal combat and scanning skills in a battle cruiser so they are very accessible to lower (or non-combat)skilled players. Based on what spawns or what you need to accomplish that day your routine is varied. This prevents burn out from either running the same missions or mining every day.
If they have been aimed at raiding parties, crazy soloers and small corporations I think that you have hit the head on the mark. The randomness of their appearance makes for a nice excuse for a night of gathering up some friends and going out for some fun. The low respawn rate/repopulation rate after a WH has been cleared keeps the size of a profitable group of people small. This means you typically run into a small group of friends rather than a large wrecking crew/alliance.
My one issue is with the increase of drop rates of items to decrease the price of T3 production. While I understand that you wish to decrease the cost of T3 cruisers this is hurting the people who are at the bottom of the T3 production chain, the gatherers. Most of the intermediary T3 production pieces (polymers, components, even rev. eng. pieces) are not profitable to manufacture and sell compared to their components. So the profit comes at either the beginning of the chain (gas, currently just one salvage material and invention pieces). Or at the end of the chain for completed T3 sub-systems and ships. Perhaps a re-balancing of gathered items needed for production to price them all moderately rather than most worth very little and a few worth a lot would balance this out a little better along the whole chain.
The other option here is to increase the demand side for t3 materials ( incorparate it into pirate faction bpcs - frigs cruisers battleships)
Implement tech 3 ammo or sleeper ammo ( would need drawbacks as well) t3 mods ( perhaps) t3 battlecruisers or destroyers
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2009.09.17 01:07:00 -
[79]
Originally by: HeliosGal
Originally by: Sangii
My one issue is with the increase of drop rates of items to decrease the price of T3 production. While I understand that you wish to decrease the cost of T3 cruisers this is hurting the people who are at the bottom of the T3 production chain, the gatherers. Most of the intermediary T3 production pieces (polymers, components, even rev. eng. pieces) are not profitable to manufacture and sell compared to their components. So the profit comes at either the beginning of the chain (gas, currently just one salvage material and invention pieces). Or at the end of the chain for completed T3 sub-systems and ships. Perhaps a re-balancing of gathered items needed for production to price them all moderately rather than most worth very little and a few worth a lot would balance this out a little better along the whole chain.
The other option here is to increase the demand side for t3 materials ( incorparate it into pirate faction bpcs - frigs cruisers battleships)
Implement tech 3 ammo or sleeper ammo ( would need drawbacks as well) t3 mods ( perhaps) t3 battlecruisers or destroyers
Or nerf the building tech requirements for t3 cruisers to get more competition at the end stage...
Racial starship engineering V? Cruiser construction V? Frigate construction IV Science V Mechanic V Industry V Mechanical Engineering IV
Each of the sub-systems requires similar build depths in different trees (like Jury Rigging V, Research V, Nanite Engineering IV, etc.)
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.09.18 15:30:00 -
[80]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 18/09/2009 15:30:39 Oh one think.
No local means no way to spot enemy when in combat anomaly .
Directional scanner cant help since you can be found without probes!
Is it overpowered or not i leave it for your jugdment. I think it is a little.
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HottyChick
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Posted - 2009.09.18 18:35:00 -
[81]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 18/09/2009 15:30:39 Oh one think.
No local means no way to spot enemy when in combat anomaly .
Directional scanner cant help since you can be found without probes!
Is it overpowered or not i leave it for your jugdment. I think it is a little.
How can you be found without probes?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.18 19:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: HottyChick
How can you be found without probes?
well technically they can use the ship scanner to find the anomalies and thus find anyone doing them _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Cyprus Black
Caldari DARK HAT
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Posted - 2009.09.20 17:35:00 -
[83]
I've got to say I rather enjoy living in a wormhole. Having lived the 0.0 alliance life, I can honestly say I don't miss it. I especially don't miss the constant POS bashing.
Wormhole living takes a bit getting used to, but with a corp and your own POS it's worth it. PvP encounters are mostly small skirmishes and the sleepers actually provide a challenge. I can't go in anymore with an uber tank, gather aggro, and have my buddies warp in and clean em up. We now have to work together repping each other.
My only complaint is the wormholes themselves don't seem to last long enough. Usually when and old entrance closes and a new one opens, the new one is already in phase 2 I would like to see a more defined measurement of a wormholes life cycle. ___________________________________
Originally by: Kortne EVE is an amazing game, but other players ruin it.
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ollobrains
5th Front enterprises Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.21 03:28:00 -
[84]
id like to see less defined wormholes but more variance ( more and less timers and more and less mass) and more links between the 00 and high sec wormhole systems
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Soyemia
Minmatar Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.21 19:55:00 -
[85]
You absolutely need to add the amount of these spawning in 0.0. You can scan with 2x covopses for 2 hours w/o finding it. There neeed to be WHs in every three systems. Really.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.22 23:24:00 -
[86]
This thread will now be closed and the results sent on to our Content Team. We appreciate your feedback as always and please accept my apologies for this thread running longer than anticipated.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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