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Crocodylus Porosus
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Posted - 2009.09.27 12:40:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Originally by: Aineko Stryer
Fusion Reactors Pulse Shield Emitters
...in turn they need:
Fermionic Condensates Ferrogel
...and thus the reason for the continued price increases (certainly from a Gallente perspective) is the ever spiralling cost of Fermionic Condensates and especially Ferrogel.
Goes go for all races, those 2 resources are used in all the Reactors and shield emitters. Hypersynapitic Fibers is another one that has its impact.
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Zaknussem
Intrum Industria
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Posted - 2009.09.27 12:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush Goodness knows what T5 will be like, although if T3 requires gas harvesting in some un-named system that's not even on the map, maybe in future we'll need to visit the gates of Hades and barter with our souls.
Or better still someone elses soul.
Ssh! Don't give them ideas. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.27 15:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Aineko Stryer Thanks, I know so much that T2 production is complicated and so deserves a good reward, which I¦m willing to pay.
But seriously T2 prices are becoming so high, that in many cases it¦s not worth it anymore to invest into T2 ships at all.
Of course the specialised ships like Recons or Marauders, that have unique ablities are still worth it.
But for "normal" gank/tank combat ships like HACs and AFs it¦s just WAY to high to make them cost efficient (some AFs reached prices of tier 2 BCs WTF???)
I beg to differ. HACs are WELL worth the price. They'd have to hit 200M before I'd stop using them as my default PvP ship. The combination of fast locking, agility, high DPS and great range is worth paying extra for.
Note that plenty of people used them before Invention was introduced, when you'd be paying 250-350M for a T2 cruiser. And that was when there was less ISK in the game; 350M ISk would buy you 3 months of game time.
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Tamarana
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Posted - 2009.09.27 16:10:00 -
[34]
A fix could be to let people anchor Moon Harvesters in Wormhole Space. If the moons there are distributed randomly, there would be a 30% increase on the number of dysprosium moon available. This would move more people to WH-space for exploitation and increase the moon minerals on the market.
Another fix could come from the next expansion, where players will be able to "improve" their controlled space systems in 0.0.
The problem with using alchemy is that converting all R16 in Dysprosium would change nothing in the quantities available. Maybe converting the R08 moon materials in Dysprosium or other R64 moon materials at a 20:1 conversion rate could change something. The risk is to make all materials pretty the same. Also, the number of small or medium POSes needed would skyrocket and this would blow the ice prices out scale.
Just now, to turn out the same production of a moon of Dysprosium one need to manage 10 moon of Cadmium. Think how much time and logistics would be needed to manage 20 POSes of Atmospheric Gases to do the same. Near all the moon in 0.0 space and low sec would be used. The capital of production goods (Tower, ice fuels, and so on) would be staggering.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.09.27 17:29:00 -
[35]
God no. A large POS in WH space is pretty much invulnerable. Also, there's nothing wrong with t2 ship prices. You pay for the performance. Fly t1 if it bothers you that much.
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Vidi Angelus
Caldari Axis and Alloys
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Posted - 2009.09.28 01:37:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Vidi Angelus on 28/09/2009 01:37:30
Originally by: Kahega Amielden God no. A large POS in WH space is pretty much invulnerable. .
A large well fitted faction POS in WH space is so easy to defend it might as well be invulnerable, Awful idea.
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Vigilant
Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's
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Posted - 2009.09.28 02:46:00 -
[37]
New player vs. Older player....
Older player doesn't see a problem, he / she remembers when T2 BPOs were the only game in town and the market was driven by large corporations that owned them.
New players sees invention and says "why can't have some". Its been said, put the time in the food chain (moons for free minerals) and you can have all you want.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.28 03:49:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Ghoest on 28/09/2009 03:50:15 Im an older player. I see a problem. Just because it used to be worse doesnt mean its good now(and yes I personally can afford HACs).
Anyway the reason for the price was explicitly stated by a dev in one of the recent blogs on Dominion.
When they reset the alchemy conversion rates to the current numbers right before they released alchemy they didnt realize the existence of the exploit that had been supplying much of the rare moon minerals. When the exploit was closed prices increased greatly, but alchemy was heavily prenerfed that it didnt work as a buffer.
Over the past 2 years the number of players who can fly T2 ships has greatly increased but the supply of materials has greatly decreased - thus the prices have risen.
Expect changes with Dominion.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Aiko Intaki
Lodizal Capsuleers Lodizal Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.09.28 12:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 28/09/2009 03:50:15 Im an older player. I see a problem. Just because it used to be worse doesnt mean its good now(and yes I personally can afford HACs).
Anyway the reason for the price was explicitly stated by a dev in one of the recent blogs on Dominion.
When they reset the alchemy conversion rates to the current numbers right before they released alchemy they didnt realize the existence of the exploit that had been supplying much of the rare moon minerals. When the exploit was closed prices increased greatly, but alchemy was heavily prenerfed that it didnt work as a buffer.
Over the past 2 years the number of players who can fly T2 ships has greatly increased but the supply of materials has greatly decreased - thus the prices have risen.
Expect changes with Dominion.
During AT7 they commented further, I believe. Rare moon minerals are going to become more accessible with the expansion as people are able to invest in and develop their space; also, the components required in T2 assembly weren't particularly well though through for historical reasons. Some items will apparently have their required component lists altered to require fewer high end moon minerals.
With three acknowledged vectors for attacking the issue (invention rates, moon mineral rarity and component build lists) it should be interesting to see how effectively they address it.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.28 18:11:00 -
[40]
Invention rates arent a problem really. I and many other people dont invent simply because it isnt profitable. Or should I say the margin is so low that its not worth the bother.
The availability of blueprints is not a limiting factor. I think there is a huge surplus of data cores that people are sitting on.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Kokura Nin
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Posted - 2009.09.28 20:22:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ghoest Invention rates arent a problem really. I and many other people dont invent simply because it isnt profitable. Or should I say the margin is so low that its not worth the bother.
The availability of blueprints is not a limiting factor. I think there is a huge surplus of data cores that people are sitting on.
The invention cost is a component of said profitability. Invention rate directly therefore directly factors into the profitability of T2 ships.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.28 21:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kokura Nin
The invention cost is a component of said profitability. Invention rate directly therefore directly factors into the profitability of T2 ships.
Lots of elements effect the cost. Most of them including invention arent an issue. Because they are only a small part of the price.
The reason T2 ships are extremely expensive now compared to before is all about mineral rarity.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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GavinCapacitor
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Posted - 2009.09.29 15:58:00 -
[43]
I read somewhere that improving space might lead you to 'discover rare minerals that weren't there' or something of that nature. I would guess that the new expansion will allow alliances to upgrade their space and everyone can have at least some access to high end moons, so that prices will come crashing down.
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Shidhe
Minmatar The Babylon5 Consortuim
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Posted - 2009.09.29 16:39:00 -
[44]
Its mostly problems with the supply of Dyspro and Prom.
This has been covered in the forum at great length before, so I won't repeat most of it, but essentially there is an absolute limit on the supply of these materials, and as demand has hit that we have huge price rises and people making mega-billions from market manipulation. Some of these will post using alts on this thread to try to divert attention from what is going on....
The absolute price of T2 ships is not the biggest problem - that is the problems caused to low sec and some 0.0 industry, making it less profitable to move there - cue more level 4 missions in empire. Also people who know more about alliance politics that I do have speculated that the massive profits are causing stagnation in 0.0, as everyone is making too much cash to upset the system.
We have been here before...
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Sulg
Quicksilver Industries Amici Noctis
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Posted - 2009.10.01 10:18:00 -
[45]
A new one of these posts seems to pop up every day. Right above or below this one you'll also see threads about ships being sold at losses. There might as well be an Industry FAQ explaining why prices are never what anyone wants them to be: because you'll only post if they aren't.
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