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K1K1R1K1
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.27 15:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: K1K1R1K1 on 27/08/2009 15:57:59 All these coincided in my head just now after reading this article I found on digg. So this whole idea I'm about to represent might have some problems with it, but bear with me.
The article essentially states that the supreme court in Argentina said that government has no right to say what is and isn't moral, and that it needs to review it's drug laws, although it does not say directly to abolish all drug laws.
And then it clicked oh so beautifully for me... why not abolish them all? Make every drug on the planet legal (*as long as it doesn't directly harm anyone but the user). Keep all the other common sense laws such as no drunk driving, no smoking indoors, and add new ones like no driving while high on cocain or whatever. And while there are good reasons certain drugs are illegal, there are much greater reasons as to why they should be legal.
So here's the theory. It's cold, harsh, and brutal, but it's for the best. The root of it all is to reintroduce natural selection into the human species which will have vast benefits for both humanity and for the planet. The idea is that once all drugs are legal, all the stupid and unfortunate people (yes I know some get hooked as kids and they can't avoid it) will use, and likely abuse the drugs to the point of death. From there there will be only a 3 sorts of people left when speaking of drugs. Those smart enough to avoid them (or use them in moderation... what a concept!), those who have abused them and survived with a lesson learned, and the dead.
The benefits are as such:
It will generate money in one form or another. Police will be able to spend more time on crimes that actually involve victims, rather than telling someone how to use their body. Above all, the absolute weakest humans will be killed off. The people that can't think past tonight and base 90% of their actions not on needs, but on wants and feelings. The kind that wants to get drunk, and then when they drink all the beer they want to drive to the liquor store to get more. Like I said, I realize that there are kids who get hooked on this stuff through little fault of their own. Unfortunately reality is one thing and the ideal situation is on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Initially it will be a very difficult and hard thing to do (like a breakup between a couple), however it will be for the best in the long run. As time passes the herd will be thinned out, people will hopefully realize on their own why they need to use drugs in moderation. If they don't, they will either die, or do something that affects another person because of their drug use, at which point they will end up in jail. It's a win win all around. Idiots get to snort all the cocain they want. Smart people get to as well. Stupid people die at their very own hands, and the police get to deal with real crimes instead of wasting time trying to rehabilitate people just to start the cycle all over again.
It's a messy, but I think in general it's on the right track... the track of reintroducing natural selection that is.
*waits for ****** references*
**Edit: why is the german guy (hint: Adolf) who killed a bunch of jews during WWII sensored?? WTF? _______________________________________ Don't worry aboutit. |
Petsey Petrilinquo
Caldari Dark Singularity
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:25:00 -
[2]
but what you've forgotten is the magical drug called cannabis, which if everyone smokes, will make the world a wonderful place where everyone will live in harmony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:32:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 27/08/2009 16:32:33
Originally by: Petsey Petrilinquo but what you've forgotten is the magical drug called cannabis, which if everyone smokes, will make the world a wonderful place where everyone will live in harmony
Until everyone gets a simultaneous attack of the munchies and we're left with an imminent famine instead.
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Petsey Petrilinquo
Caldari Dark Singularity
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Posted - 2009.08.27 16:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 27/08/2009 16:32:33
Originally by: Petsey Petrilinquo but what you've forgotten is the magical drug called cannabis, which if everyone smokes, will make the world a wonderful place where everyone will live in harmony
Until everyone gets a simultaneous attack of the munchies and we're left with an imminent famine instead.
Shouldnt you be doing some sort of science experiment or something proffessor? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard. Soldiers of Solitude
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Posted - 2009.08.27 17:47:00 -
[5]
I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor in the place of Chinese and Indian workers. Instead of exporting jobs, some jobs would be sent to prison labor camps.
Some say my ideas are inhumane.... Anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law. The exception of course being those not at the age of majority. They would be rehabilitated, and the parents would be punished for negligence depending on circumstances as I realize parents can't control their kids 100%
Also parents would be given back the right to spank their children with no fear of abuse accusation. lol. |
snaike
Center For High Times Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: rValdez5987 I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor in the place of Chinese and Indian workers. Instead of exporting jobs, some jobs would be sent to prison labor camps.
Some say my ideas are inhumane.... Anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law. The exception of course being those not at the age of majority. They would be rehabilitated, and the parents would be punished for negligence depending on circumstances as I realize parents can't control their kids 100%
Also parents would be given back the right to spank their children with no fear of abuse accusation. lol.
The problem with this argument, 'anyone not following the law forfeits their rights' is that you are neglecting the process by which laws are formed or abolished. Those civil rights protestors who broke the segregation laws, would you had them sent to your labour camps? The simple fact is, laws come and go, and it takes violations of certain laws regarded as unjust to bring about a change in the law. The thing to always remember, laws should be shaped by their society, rather than used to shape a society to them.
Cryin' Won't Help You, Prayin' Will Do You No Good
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: rValdez5987 I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor in the place of Chinese and Indian workers. Instead of exporting jobs, some jobs would be sent to prison labor camps.
Some say my ideas are inhumane.... Anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law. The exception of course being those not at the age of majority. They would be rehabilitated, and the parents would be punished for negligence depending on circumstances as I realize parents can't control their kids 100%
Also parents would be given back the right to spank their children with no fear of abuse accusation. lol.
This. A thousand times this.
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Harm Gently
Naughty 40
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:14:00 -
[8]
The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers there will be. - Lao Tzu
Oh, and I agree with snaike btw.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: rValdez5987 I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor in the place of Chinese and Indian workers. Instead of exporting jobs, some jobs would be sent to prison labor camps.
Some say my ideas are inhumane.... Anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law. The exception of course being those not at the age of majority. They would be rehabilitated, and the parents would be punished for negligence depending on circumstances as I realize parents can't control their kids 100%
Also parents would be given back the right to spank their children with no fear of abuse accusation. lol.
I too believe that giving our increasingly intrusive and authoritarian governments a huge incentive to criminalise us would be a great idea with no adverse consequences.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.08.27 18:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: rValdez5987 I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor in the place of Chinese and Indian workers. Instead of exporting jobs, some jobs would be sent to prison labor camps.
Some say my ideas are inhumane.... Anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law. The exception of course being those not at the age of majority. They would be rehabilitated, and the parents would be punished for negligence depending on circumstances as I realize parents can't control their kids 100%
Also parents would be given back the right to spank their children with no fear of abuse accusation. lol.
Hint to the clueless: illegal =/= immoral. The "rule of law" is just a pathetic way of avoiding the need to face the question of whether your laws are actually moral or not. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.27 19:07:00 -
[11]
very good decision
a small step and soon maria will be like tobacco
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snaike
Center For High Times Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.27 19:53:00 -
[12]
To all those who are saying what we need is stronger penalties, you are simply wrong.
Laws do not solve, or deal adequately, with the problem they are related with. Think about it; people still murder, ****, smuggle, assault, kidnap and torture, despite there being pretty harsh penalties in place for these actions around the world. In some countries you will get your hand cut off for petty theivery, and I'd say this is a pretty severe penalty, but hey, people still steal bread.
Part of the problem with laws is that they simply don't stand up to human ingenuity. Some of the most brilliant plans, schemes, business operations and even technical inventions have been devised as a means of breaking the law and avoiding detection. Putting a law in place because an act is deemed immoral will not stop people from performing the act, it will just cause them to rethink their strategy in going about that action. Put simply, having a law in place does not remove the incentive from the act the law prohibits.
You want to greatly reduce drug use across the world? Well throwing people into prison or into work camps isn't going to do it. You'll need to look into the root causes of drug taking; be they poverty, lack of opportunity, inequality etc etc. That said, some people just like to get high from time to time, and as human beings have achieved states of euphoria throughout our history (from a plethora of means, not just drugs) why is it seen as so evil?
Laws do not work to eradicate a problem. Laws are reactionary, and as such are in the wrong place in the causal chain to actually achieve anything. Simple as that.
Cryin' Won't Help You, Prayin' Will Do You No Good
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2009 20:21:27
Originally by: rValdez5987 I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor[...]anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law.
Let's make a law making it illegal to drink alcohool (didn't we have that once already ? how did it work out, I don't recall... hmmz... /naive) Or illegal to be a homosexual. Or be addicted to video games. Or scratching your nose in public. Hooray cheap labour !
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it SHOULD be illegal. Anything that only directly damages others (or the state) should be illegal in the first place, and even there some exceptions should exist.
P.S. Other than that, sure, why not, reintroduce slavery (as replacement to jail time - when your "slavery time" is over, it's over, and you can get out early for good behaviour or good performance, just like out of jail) and make people that break the law slaves for all I care (hooray, no more prisons). But then make sure the laws are proper laws, not some arbitrary junk.
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard. Soldiers of Solitude
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2009 20:21:27
Originally by: rValdez5987 I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor[...]anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law.
Let's make a law making it illegal to drink alcohool (didn't we have that once already ? how did it work out, I don't recall... hmmz... /naive) Or illegal to be a homosexual. Or be addicted to video games. Or scratching your nose in public. Hooray cheap labour !
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it SHOULD be illegal. Anything that only directly damages others (or the state) should be illegal in the first place, and even there some exceptions should exist.
P.S. Other than that, sure, why not, reintroduce slavery (as replacement to jail time - when your "slavery time" is over, it's over, and you can get out early for good behaviour or good performance, just like out of jail) and make people that break the law slaves for all I care (hooray, no more prisons). But then make sure the laws are proper laws, not some arbitrary junk.
Anything that is deemed unhealthy should be disallowed.
It isn't your body when you are part of programs OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR. Because my tax money supports your addictions, your weakness, your weak wants, I am a part owner of your body.
So yes, if I'm helping to pay for your benefits I expect that you will be forced if necessary to live properly and healthy.
Don't like it? Help me move us to a libertarian society without entitlement, with low corruption, a society where work means something, people earn their rights, and everyone contributes.
Most people want to legalize drugs out of selfishness not because they are actually looking at the issue itself with why we shouldn't. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: rValdez5987
Anything that is deemed unhealthy should be disallowed.
Yeah what could possibly go wrong with this?
Mate, every time you consider an idea that transfers more power to the government, you should think of it the same way as a proposal by an eve player that transfers ISK to him: where's the scam?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: rValdez5987 Anything that is deemed unhealthy should be disallowed. It isn't your body when you are part of programs OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR. Because my tax money supports your addictions, your weakness, your weak wants, I am a part owner of your body. So yes, if I'm helping to pay for your benefits I expect that you will be forced if necessary to live properly and healthy
Stuff you did to yourself should not entitle you to FREE medical assistance Drug overdose ? Sorry, you were just billed. Can't pay the bill ? Slavery ! Cigarette smoker ? Lung problems ? Treatment not free. Pay, die or enter slavery. Jumped off a cliff because you were driving too fast and survived ? Surgery is not free ! Pay, die or enter slavery.
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
K1K1R1K1
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.27 20:58:00 -
[17]
This thing got derailed a bit. I wasn't arguing the morality of laws. Laws are a grey (or is it gray?) area enough as it is and can be argued from here to China. I was arguing the idea of reintroducing natural selection and how that would make life better. Because while everything natural may not be best for you, I believe natural selection is one of them that is good and this would be an ideal way to reintroduce it. Even if some suffering has to occur to get the wheels rolling. Yea... something like that. _______________________________________ Don't worry aboutit. |
snaike
Center For High Times Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.27 21:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: rValdez5987
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2009 20:21:27
Originally by: rValdez5987 I believe in making the penalties much harsher instead, and using prisoners as cheap labor[...]anyone not following the rule of law deserves no rights. They forfeited them when they broke the law.
Let's make a law making it illegal to drink alcohool (didn't we have that once already ? how did it work out, I don't recall... hmmz... /naive) Or illegal to be a homosexual. Or be addicted to video games. Or scratching your nose in public. Hooray cheap labour !
Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it SHOULD be illegal. Anything that only directly damages others (or the state) should be illegal in the first place, and even there some exceptions should exist.
P.S. Other than that, sure, why not, reintroduce slavery (as replacement to jail time - when your "slavery time" is over, it's over, and you can get out early for good behaviour or good performance, just like out of jail) and make people that break the law slaves for all I care (hooray, no more prisons). But then make sure the laws are proper laws, not some arbitrary junk.
Anything that is deemed unhealthy should be disallowed.
Have you ever eaten a chocolate bar? Or a kebab? Or any of the other numerous unhealthy foods we all enjoy?
Cryin' Won't Help You, Prayin' Will Do You No Good
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2009.08.27 21:10:00 -
[19]
I do not think you understand the mechanics of evolution. You will not reintroduce natural selection to the human species by legalizing drugs, and it will not have vast benefits for both humanity and the planet.
However the court ruling is quite interesting. "The state cannot establish morality," they said.
So if not the state, then who does?
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K1K1R1K1
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.27 21:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akiba Penrose I do not think you understand the mechanics of evolution. You will not reintroduce natural selection to the human species by legalizing drugs, and it will not have vast benefits for both humanity and the planet.
However the court ruling is quite interesting. "The state cannot establish morality," they said.
So if not the state, then who does?
True, it might not be a revolution of sorts. However, I still think it'll free up some lanes on the highway. _______________________________________ Don't worry aboutit. |
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snaike
Center For High Times Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.27 21:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: K1K1R1K1 This thing got derailed a bit. I wasn't arguing the morality of laws. Laws are a grey (or is it gray?) area enough as it is and can be argued from here to China. I was arguing the idea of reintroducing natural selection and how that would make life better. Because while everything natural may not be best for you, I believe natural selection is one of them that is good and this would be an ideal way to reintroduce it. Even if some suffering has to occur to get the wheels rolling. Yea... something like that.
Natural selection disappeared from humanity the very moment morality appeared.
Its something I've been pondering for a while. Modern medecine is responsibly for a tremendous 'pollution' if you will, of our gene pool. Tied in with our moral notions of a right to life, or the evils of abortion means that we have a much higher pervailance of genetic abnormalities, problems and deformities than if medecine was not around. Whether this is right or wrong, I don't know. A big part of me believes in rights to life, but then I'm somewhat of a utilitarian, so quality of life is hugely important too.
If anything, I think the best way to reintroduce natural selection gradually, is to be rid of excessive health and safety regulations and bring back common sense.
Cryin' Won't Help You, Prayin' Will Do You No Good
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.08.27 21:22:00 -
[22]
I also am in the belief that warning labels should be removed and lawsuits nullified. In the dark ages if a man was eaten by a lion people would point at him and say that man was stupid for being by a lion. Now days if a man is eaten by a lion they put the lion down and proclaim all lions as being dangerous.
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: K1K1R1K1
True, it might not be a revolution of sorts. However, I still think it'll free up some lanes on the highway.
The earth is heavily overpopulated, and i guess an overdose is better then starving to death. hmm,, maybe it would help the planet after all :)
Originally by: snaike
Modern medecine is responsibly for a tremendous 'pollution' if you will, of our gene pool.
Id say that, in an evolutionary perspective, the more genetic pollution we got the better. By maintaining a high genetic diversity we will have better odds to survive as a species when the **** hits the fan. Because its impossible for us to see in the future it is also impossible for us to determine what will be good or bad genes.
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:09:00 -
[24]
I do completely agree though. With PETA, and other organizations that help out certain people, animals or things. Have all been based around morality. And what people care for. And even if it means sacrificing their pet poodle to save the planet, or swap to a smaller car, they won't do it. ________________________________________________
My Music
Posts slowly rising in quality to the decline of my dignity. |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Akita T
Stuff you did to yourself should not entitle you to FREE medical assistance Drug overdose ? Sorry, you were just billed. Can't pay the bill ? Slavery ! Cigarette smoker ? Lung problems ? Treatment not free. Pay, die or enter slavery. Jumped off a cliff because you were driving too fast and survived ? Surgery is not free ! Pay, die or enter slavery.
i will vote for that TBQH but the society need a major change to accept a rule like that
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: K1K1R1K1 This thing got derailed a bit. I wasn't arguing the morality of laws. Laws are a grey (or is it gray?) area enough as it is and can be argued from here to China. I was arguing the idea of reintroducing natural selection and how that would make life better. Because while everything natural may not be best for you, I believe natural selection is one of them that is good and this would be an ideal way to reintroduce it. Even if some suffering has to occur to get the wheels rolling. Yea... something like that.
You're much more likely to die from drug-related issues when drugs are illegal And I don't mean just from drug-induced medical issues, but from a lot of other things that go with the territory when they're illegal. So your proposal would have the opposite effect anyway.
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Azirapheal
Amarr Armored Core Inc. The Council.
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Posted - 2009.08.27 22:47:00 -
[27]
i saw tax money dragged into the conversation somewhere up there and was reminded of a conversation i had with an anti smoking nazzi
88 - you realise how much your smoking costs the state each year? me - hit me *inhales* 88 - you cost the nhs 500 million pounds a year (omgrofllolololol) me - ok... *breathes out* you know we pay 2.5bn a year in taxes for this right? 88 - but its bad for you me - as will this conversation be for your health if you dont get the fk back inside the pub before i finish this pint and try to glass you.
legalise it, tax it, funds itself.
the law is but a piece of paper that people in general agree with. civil disobediance happens alot... the civil rights movement in america, poll tax in the uk etc
oh and statistically 68% of uk citizens below the age of 45 have illegally smoked cannabis or tried non legal substances,
to me that says the majority are now criminals... so the law cant be in effect unless they are seriously planning to put a perimiter wall around glasgow and send us all there.
with hte majority of people taking voer in this generation having been exposed tried or actively smoked. i find it hard to believe that they can still think a reactionary measure is necessary.
*shrug* in a week ill have another 4 ounces of nice homegrown for my own personal use :D
and im a nice person...
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist SoonÖ
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Orion Eridanus
Dakota HeadHunters
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Posted - 2009.08.27 23:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2009 22:41:53
Originally by: rValdez5987 Anything that is deemed unhealthy should be disallowed. It isn't your body when you are part of programs OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR. Because my tax money supports your addictions, your weakness, your weak wants, I am a part owner of your body. So yes, if I'm helping to pay for your benefits I expect that you will be forced if necessary to live properly and healthy
Stuff you did to yourself should not entitle you to FREE medical assistance Drug overdose ? Sorry, you were just billed. Can't pay the bill ? Slavery ! Cigarette smoker ? Lung problems ? Treatment not free. Pay, die or enter slavery. Jumped off a cliff because you were driving too fast and survived ? Surgery is not free ! Pay, die or enter slavery.
Every right should be counterbalanced by an equally important responsability. You should have the right to do whatever the f**k you want to yourself, but you should be fully responsable for any consequences, medical or otherwise.
This times a million billion trillion
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.08.27 23:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/08/2009 22:41:53
Originally by: rValdez5987 Anything that is deemed unhealthy should be disallowed. It isn't your body when you are part of programs OTHER PEOPLE PAY FOR. Because my tax money supports your addictions, your weakness, your weak wants, I am a part owner of your body. So yes, if I'm helping to pay for your benefits I expect that you will be forced if necessary to live properly and healthy
Stuff you did to yourself should not entitle you to FREE medical assistance Drug overdose ? Sorry, you were just billed. Can't pay the bill ? Slavery ! Cigarette smoker ? Lung problems ? Treatment not free. Pay, die or enter slavery. Jumped off a cliff because you were driving too fast and survived ? Surgery is not free ! Pay, die or enter slavery.
Every right should be counterbalanced by an equally important responsability. You should have the right to do whatever the f**k you want to yourself, but you should be fully responsable for any consequences, medical or otherwise.
Ohhhh this i can get behind. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.08.29 01:40:00 -
[30]
First off RV I tend to agree with some of the stuff you say.
Originally by: rValdez5987
Anything that is deemed unhealthy should be disallowed.
/facepalm
Guess what? Sitting still for a majority of what should be an mostly active day is unhealthy. In your world it would be illegal to sit in front of your computer and play games.
This is just one small example of how stupid that comment was.
Then you follow with this
Originally by: rValdez5987 Help me move us to a libertarian society without entitlement, with low corruption, a society where work means something, people earn their rights, and everyone contributes.
What you proposed above is not what liberty is about
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
=v= |
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