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DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.09.01 06:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: DarthCaboose on 01/09/2009 06:23:29 This may or may not come as a surprise to some of you but training the advanced learning skill Presence (the Charisma one) to level 5 is really not valuable to the vast majority of Eve players as of writing.
With a new test character, I put in all the Learning skills to their level 5 setting and put to level 5 ALL the skills requiring Charisma as a primary or secondary attribute to a plan queue in EveMon. I understand remapping would definitely lower these skill times, but I am not sure if its effects on the training of Presence V would make a big difference. Please let me know if you find something to the contrary!
Excluding the effect of implants, the total training time for this skill queue with Presence V is ~1092.5 days (keep in mind that this hasn't been optimized). With Presence up to IV, the total skill queue comes out to ~1110 days.
Now indeed, Presence V saves you 18 days. But keep in mind that this skill queue contains EVERY skill in Eve that requires Charisma; a skill set which most Eve players may not want to completely train up in the long run. As such, given the dearth of Charisma skills in today's Eve Online, it is probably not in one's interest to pursue Presence to level V without a very Charisma-dedicated skill plan.
TLDR: Like training every skill relying on Charisma in the game? Then Presence V'll save you some time. Otherwise, it's probably not worth it.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.01 06:41:00 -
[2]
1) It's a 'known issue'. 2) New Charisma based skills may be added in the future. 3) Someone who disagrees with you (Pottsey) will be along shortly.
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Yarinor
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Posted - 2009.09.01 10:52:00 -
[3]
in b4 pottsey.
No seriously, I think he's got a good point, guess he's just not too good at explaining what he means :/
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.01 11:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/09/2009 11:06:00 Well it could be worth it. Let's say you train it now. Then when the WIS expansion hits and you need a bunch of Charisma skills to hire the shop keepers, run shops and all the other WIS stuff. Your year long new skill plan due to WIS could finish up to 8/17days ish faster due to Charisma adv5 then if you didn't have it. But it's a gamble.
I know having adv5's has but me well over 17days further along my skill plan in one year then where I would be without but for most people adv5 Charisma is not worth it.
For example my alt got adv5 Charisma years back when I didn't know what direction to take her in. Then this year and last she spent ages getting all sorts of gang assist and other Charisma skills. Due to already having adv5 Charisma the new skill plans finished much faster than without. She couldn't train the skills instead of adv5 Charisma as she didn't know she would need them. Then again it was a gamble as she might not have needed the Charisma skills this year.
You can save time on new skill plans and finish new skill plans with adv5 long before the payoff has been hit. Saying that few people end up better with Charisma.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Lilith Krell
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Posted - 2009.09.01 12:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Pottsey Stuff
Facepalm...
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.01 12:49:00 -
[6]
Facepalm as much as you like it just shows you don't understand what I am talking about, as what I said is correct. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 01/09/2009 11:10:42 Well it could be worth it. Let's say you train it now. Then when the WIS expansion hits and you need a bunch of Charisma skills to hire the shop keepers, run shops and all the other WIS stuff. Your year long new skill plan due to WIS could finish up to 8/17days ish faster due to Charisma adv5 then if you didn't have it. But it's a gamble.
I know having adv5's has put me well over 17days further along my skill plan in one year then where I would be without but for most people adv5 Charisma is not worth it.
For example my alt got adv5 Charisma years back when I didn't know what direction to take her in. Then this year and last when the Orca came out she spent ages getting all sorts of gang assist and other Charisma skills. Due to already having adv5 Charisma the new skill plans finished much faster than without. She couldn't train the skills instead of adv5 Charisma as she didn't know she would need them. Then again it was a gamble as she might not have needed the Charisma skills this year.
You can save time on new skill plans and finish new skill plans with adv5 long before the payoff has been hit. Saying that few people end up better with Charisma.
I can see where all of you in this thread are coming from. Indeed, you can look back at your week and a half of skill training and think "Phew, I'm glad that's over and I'm glad I did it for whatever lays ahead in Eve!". But you need to remember that the purpose of training Learning skills is to provide some sort of time payback in the long run. Now, assuming CCP takes an incremental approach to creating new skills (with possibly the exception of WIS and all those shopkeepers and what-not), the benefits; payback, from Presence V will still not be as strong as training other adv. learning skills to level V for quite a while!
All that said your argument that alts are a good candidate for Learning skills is a pretty good one, since most players groom them for a single purpose in Eve which usually branches out into Orca mindlinks or what-not.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.09.01 17:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lilith Krell
Originally by: Pottsey Stuff
Facepalm...
I too facepalm at your lack of understanding. Unfortaunte, but we can't all grasp the subtle mysteries of the universe and the fact that there can be life without pew. --Vel
Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshat. |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/09/2009 18:10:31 If that was at me De'Veldrin there is nothing wrong with my understanding. The only people with a lack of understanding are the ones that don't understand what I say. adv5's can make a new skill plan finishe up to 17days ish faster per year in certain situations. Even if payoff is 2 years or longer a new skillplan can finish much faster in one year. At least sometimes. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 01/09/2009 18:10:31 If that was at me De'Veldrin there is nothing wrong with my understanding. The only people with a lack of understanding are the ones that don't understand what I say. adv5's can make a new skill plan finishe up to 17days ish faster per year in certain situations. Even if payoff is 2 years or longer a new skillplan can finish much faster in one year. At least sometimes.
I think she was facepalming at the fact that the other guy facepalmed without understanding.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:46:00 -
[11]
I was thinking that but wasn't sure. If that's the case I take back my post as I misunderstood. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 01/09/2009 18:10:31 If that was at me De'Veldrin there is nothing wrong with my understanding. The only people with a lack of understanding are the ones that don't understand what I say. adv5's can make a new skill plan finishe up to 17days ish faster per year in certain situations. Even if payoff is 2 years or longer a new skillplan can finish much faster in one year. At least sometimes.
I think she was facepalming at the fact that the other guy facepalmed without understanding.
This was indeed the case. I haven't laughed that hard in a while. Well, not since this morning anyway.
I knew exactly what Pottsey was saying and it made perfect sense to me. I found the other guy reducing it to <Stuff> and facepalming about it worthy of a snippy retort. --Vel
Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshat. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Pottsey I was thinking that but wasn't sure. If that's the case I take back my post as I misunderstood.
It happens, no hard feelings --Vel
Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshat. |
Chathe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:06:00 -
[14]
I think your numbers are a bit off Looking at Eve mon there are 114 levels worth of skills with char as a primary then there are 34 levels worth of skills with char as secondary.
So let's look at what this could give you. with learning 5 the rate change is 66 sp / hour primary, then 33 sp / hour secondary.
If someone wanted to max cha the different rates would be 2706 vs 2640 ( 2677 secondary ).
2706 449.37134.02 2640 460.60135.67 or 11.2 days saved on primary and 1.6 days save secondary for a total of 12.8 days saved vs the 9.97 days at these rates it would take to train said skill.
When commiting to a skill plan that takes over a year one would think that you'd max your stats..
Either way if you didn't you're being silly.
That being said currently the cha based skills are fairly diverse so you're right.
You could also make the case for Willpower not paying off for most characters fairly easily.
That being said tomorrow a block of skills could be added that make Char the sexy , and you could be the half hour or so ahead of the next guy at getting the skill to max..
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DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.09.02 07:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Chathe I think your numbers are a bit off Looking at Eve mon there are 114 levels worth of skills with char as a primary then there are 34 levels worth of skills with char as secondary.
So let's look at what this could give you. with learning 5 the rate change is 66 sp / hour primary, then 33 sp / hour secondary.
If someone wanted to max cha the different rates would be 2706 vs 2640 ( 2677 secondary ).
2706 449.37134.02 2640 460.60135.67 or 11.2 days saved on primary and 1.6 days save secondary for a total of 12.8 days saved vs the 9.97 days at these rates it would take to train said skill.
When commiting to a skill plan that takes over a year one would think that you'd max your stats..
Either way if you didn't you're being silly.
That being said currently the cha based skills are fairly diverse so you're right.
You could also make the case for Willpower not paying off for most characters fairly easily.
That being said tomorrow a block of skills could be added that make Char the sexy , and you could be the half hour or so ahead of the next guy at getting the skill to max..
Ah thank you. I'm pretty sure I had all the skills in right. However, optimizing would exponentially improve the learning skills queue time while marginally increasing the charisma skills would only linearly improve them. As such my test for looking at just the difference between having Presence V and not having Presence V. All other learning skills are still trained (including Learning V).
Your numbers of 12.8 days saved seem quite right. However, you should keep in mind that EveMon DOES factor in the 9.97 days you've trained. The benefit is that despite spending an additional 9.97 days training Presence V, you save on 12.8 days! The savings is absolute when looking at the with Presence V versus the without-Presence V skill set.
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DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.09.02 07:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 01/09/2009 18:10:31 If that was at me De'Veldrin there is nothing wrong with my understanding. The only people with a lack of understanding are the ones that don't understand what I say. adv5's can make a new skill plan finishe up to 17days ish faster per year in certain situations. Even if payoff is 2 years or longer a new skillplan can finish much faster in one year. At least sometimes.
Certain situations? True. But perhaps the words "Extremely Unlikely" are more appropriate. The skill plan I mentioned includes EVERY SINGLE SKILL in Eve with Charisma as one of the attributes. Unless someone wants to be truly well rounded and level up Corp Management, Leadership, Social and Trade skills then Presence V will not be to their benefit.
Remember, some people won't ever want to go deep in missioning, some people won't care about trading, some people won't want to be designated fleet booster or leader and some people won't want to set up their own Deathstar POS defence. Now if you do want to do all that, then please, ignore my advice and train Presenece V because it will help you. But otherwise, be aware of what you're getting into!
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Lilith Krell
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Posted - 2009.09.02 08:55:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lilith Krell on 02/09/2009 08:56:24
Originally by: Pottsey Facepalm as much as you like it just shows you don't understand what I am talking about, as what I said is correct.
I am not saying what you said is incorrect, it's the pointlessness of what you said that got you a facepalm - as usual it comes down to 'payoff' which you stubbornly refuse to factor in to your evaluation of 'worth', making most of what you say on the subject obvious and repetative. You do make a good point regarding possible new skills needing charisma, but that is just speculation.
As OP said, training Presence to V is currently not worth it for most players, as if you hadn't trained it, you would finish any skillplans incorporating charisma skills earlier than if you had, simply by the medium of starting the plan earlier.
Edit: spelling
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.02 12:14:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/09/2009 12:14:39 Lilith Krell said said ôOP said, training Presence to V is currently not worth it for most players, as if you hadn't trained it, you would finish any skillplans incorporating charisma skills earlier than if you had,ö
That is very wrong some of the time. Many players do benefit from Presence V just like many do not. I have given many examples over the years where training Presence V has caused the new skill plan(s) to be much faster. You do not always finish skillplans incorporating charisma skills earlier if you didnÆt train Presence V. I only need to look at both my main and alt both of which would be behind the current skillplans if they didnÆt have Presence V.
Lilith Krell said ôusual it comes down to 'payoff' which you stubbornly refuse to factor in to your evaluation of 'worth',ö
I do factor in payoff. I just donÆt value it as much as others. To me finishing a new skill plan 17days faster per year is far more important then hitting payoff. When I finish a skillplan 17days faster in one year I donÆt care that I have not hit payoff yet. Not having adv5Æs would just make the skillplan take 17days longer per year at least in my and many other cases but not all cases.
DarthCaboose said ôCertain situations? True. But perhaps the words "Extremely Unlikely" are more appropriate.ö
No not extremely unlikely, pretty common. Your argument only works for the rare people with static never changing skill plans.
People often change and create new skillplans due to ingamv or even out of game events or just a change of mood. It can only takes one such event to change your skillplan with Charisma skills involved to make it worth while. Take Event X (Orca) my alt had zero use for gang assist skills but had Presence V. Due to the Orca she ended up getting millions SP with Charisma. No matter what the skillplan ends much faster with Presence V then Presence IV or lower. Later on Even Y happened and she needed Amour gang assist and command ships again Presence V made the new skillplan finish faster then Presence IV.
There is no I would have trained those Charisma skills instead of Presence V as I am sure you can see why. When an event changes your skillplan the skillplan starts at the same time if you had IV or V. So if the skillplan started at the same time due to Event like X and Y then Presence V is worth while. ItÆs a gamble but it pays off for a lot of players. Adv5 skills give you the adaptability to swap to new skillplans and end them much faster then the IV people. This alone makes them worthwhile. This is why I see all learning skills to av5 as worth while.
DarthCaboose said ôUnless someone wants to be truly well rounded and level up Corp Management, Leadership, Social and Trade skills then Presence V will not be to their benefit. ô
I donÆt agree. Just Leadership or just Social and I ended up finishing the plan faster with Presence V over IV. Not that it applies to everyone but its not rare.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Lilith Krell
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Posted - 2009.09.02 14:18:00 -
[19]
Facepalm...
(and you really do deserve it this time)
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Xenofarion
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.02 14:46:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Xenofarion on 02/09/2009 14:46:38 Edited by: Xenofarion on 02/09/2009 14:46:16
Originally by: Pottsey I do factor in payoff. I just donÆt value it as much as others. To me finishing a new skill plan 17days faster per year is far more important then hitting payoff. When I finish a skillplan 17days faster in one year I donÆt care that I have not hit payoff yet. Not having adv5Æs would just make the skillplan take 17days longer per year at least in my and many other cases but not all cases.
You don't value it? So you would still be happy if it would bring you 3 days less training time for one year although it needed 14 days to learn?
Originally by: Pottsey No not extremely unlikely, pretty common. Your argument only works for the rare people with static never changing skill plans.
No, you are the one talking about static skill plans. You talked about one full year of training only skills which contain charisma - seriously, dude Let's take it to the max (maximum possible benefit of Presence V): One full year of just training skills which have Charisma as primary (are there even that many?) will save you (Learning 5 included) 66*24*365=578,160 Skillpoints. This is about the amount of SP needed to bring Presence from IV to V. And now you say it's worth training? Who the hell trains one year Charisma-primary-skills only? Or two years just Charisma-secondary. Or one year and 4 months Charisma primary/secondary 50/50. Or any other stupid mixture. I think Op is right and that you just try to justify your (almost) wasted SP
edit: spelling is hard -- those who can, do those who can't, complain |
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Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
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Posted - 2009.09.02 15:13:00 -
[21]
There's no point in arguing with Pottsey about anything. It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong. He will always ignore what you are saying and continue repeating whatever he's been saying. He never gets tired of doing this, he can continue to be just as ignorant at page 195 as he was at page 2.
You stand no chance, leave now while you still can.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.02 15:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Siona Windweaver There's no point in arguing with Pottsey about anything. It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong. He will always ignore what you are saying and continue repeating whatever he's been saying. He never gets tired of doing this, he can continue to be just as ignorant at page 195 as he was at page 2.
You stand no chance, leave now while you still can.
Posting a post as constructive as yours. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Chathe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:05:00 -
[23]
Quote: Your numbers of 12.8 days saved seem quite right. However, you should keep in mind that EveMon DOES factor in the 9.97 days you've trained. The benefit is that despite spending an additional 9.97 days training Presence V, you save on 12.8 days! The savings is absolute when looking at the with Presence V versus the without-Presence V skill set.
No.
When doing calcs for the forums I use a spread sheet + the formulas. So in the case I presented if you maxed Cha and ran +5 implants with a 9 as you secondary stat. you would save .... ~3 days by training secondary cha to max.
The biggest problem with cha is that it's split all over. Trade stuff ! or Wing Commander Stuff ! or Running a corp stuff ! or more LP for mission runner stuff !
All of these things are really cool but the likelyhood of them all being on the same character is low, and level 5ing alot of them is more of a why ? than an I need to vs say gunnery skills that dirrectly increase your effectiveness.
Potsey has a slight point on rate change but.. you have to look at your real time savings per level.
If you're at 15/9 with +5 implants the savings per level trained to 5 is all of 2.37 hours on the other end of the spectrum if you're 5/5 with no implants the saving per level is 8.02 hours ( and some hella long training times buy some implants :P )
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:41:00 -
[24]
Xenofarion said "You don't value it? So you would still be happy if it would bring you 3 days less training time for one year although it needed 14 days to learn? " Yes in certain situations like in my examples where it saved me 17days per year and without it the skill plan takes 17days longer. In my case by year 2 I ended my plans 34days sooner due to adv5. By year 3 I ended my plans 51days sooner due to adv5. Granted that was with all adv5's not just Presence V. If the skillplan is static and you can train the skills instead of adv5 then until the payoff point no adv5 is not worth it. But a lot of the time you get new skillplans.
Not always but often you start a new skillplan due to a game rebalance corp or alliance change, change of mood or many other reasons. Most of there reasons will be on the same date/time no matter if you had adv4 or adv5 .When that happens no matter what adv5 is going finish the new plan faster. If you follow a new skillplan for one year then you end the plan around 17ish days faster with adv5s.
Xenofarion said "No, you are the one talking about static skill plans. You talked about one full year of training only skills which contain charisma - seriously, dude"
Ok I didn't explain it clear enough. If you skillplan never changes and is static for 3 years or whatever the end time is for payoff then you are better off without adv5's. If you have a new skillplan either due to an event in game or out of game, then your skillplan is none static and changing. One year of changing new skillplans or just a one year long new skillplan can make adv5 Charisma or the others worth it. Just 6 months of a new plan might make it worth it
Example1 Let's say on January the 1st there is massive game rebalance and you now hate missile. You spend one year on a new turret skillplan due to adv5's you finish the new skillplan 17ish days faster.
Example 2. A new ship comes out like the Orca you stop your old plan and start an Orca plan. The charisma skills you had no interest in are now of interest you spend one year training a new skillplan like command and other charisma skills. You now finish the new plan 17ish days faster due to adv5's.
Example3 Your corp moves to 0.0 you stop your old plan and make a new 0.0 based skillplan. You had no interest in cap ships in the past. You now train a new skilllplan with cap ships, gang skills, jump clone skills you now finish the first year of the new plan 17ish days faster due to adv5's.
You have not hit payoff but your new skillplan end much faster. That to me is the real value of adv5 learning skills. That is why I think it's often worth it to pursue Presence V and other V learning adv5 skills. Presence V being the biggest gamble of all the adv5's to get. If your sure your going to never try anything new and always use the same set of skills. Never add new skill to the plan then adv5 is not worth getting. All those people who got Presence V then later on ended up with a new unexpected plan with Charisma skills benefited.
Xenofarion said "And now you say it's worth training? Who the hell trains one year Charisma-primary-skills only?" Perhaps your alliance is moving to 0.0 and you had no interested in those skill until the move, no plan to train them beforhand. You might want to run some research projects; you're bound to want some Jump clones. You're the fleet booster and you do all sorts from mining ops, to running different style of fleets. All that could easily hit with charisma skills 213days training with adv5. It would take 9 days longer with adv4. Now add on some none Charsims skills to do with cap ships to go along with your fleet boosts and if you had the other adv5 skills in one year your new plan ends 17ish days faster. 9days faster due to Presence V and 8 days faster due to the other adv5 learnings. Ending a skillplan 17days sooner is worth it in my mind.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.09.02 16:41:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/09/2009 16:45:14
Xenofarion said " I think Op is right and that you just try to justify your (almost) wasted SP "
Yeah really wasted all that SP. If I had followed advice and not got adv5 I would be around 68days (Estimated) behind my current skill path. 68days ahead in my skill path sounds like a big mistake I made and need to justify. 68days more SP in a plan is almost wasted SP.
Lilith Krell said "Facepalm... (and you really do deserve it this time)"
Please explain why, as far as I can see what I said is correct. The new one year skillplan that started due to event X/Y finishes 17days in faster with adv5 leaning. Without adv5 leaning the skillplan due to event X/Y takes 17ish days longer. There is nothing wrong with that. It's true if you do not understand it you need the Facepalm not me.
Siona Windweaver said "There's no point in arguing with Pottsey about anything. It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong. He will always ignore what you are saying and continue repeating"" That is a complete lie. I do listen and I would stop if I was wrong and someone pointed out where I was wrong and was correct in what they said. I do not ignore people, I sometimes miss the odd post here and there but I do not ignore.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Mrs Ravenfire
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:00:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mrs Ravenfire on 02/09/2009 17:01:16
Originally by: Pottsey Xenofarion said " I think Op is right and that you just try to justify your (almost) wasted SP " Yeah really wasted all that SP. If I had followed advice and not got adv5 I would be around 68days (Estimated) behind my current skill path. 68days ahead in my skill path sounds like a big mistake I made and need to justify. 68days more SP in a plan is almost wasted SP.
You are quoting me out of context. I never talked about adv5's in general. I will have all advanced learnings but the charisma one on V soon, cause the advanced Charisma V is a waste. This is what i said, this is what i proved and this is what you obviously didn't get as you read my post The whole thread is about Presence V yes/no and not about advanced learnings in general.
edit: fail alt post stupid forum settings reset every day.. oh gawd how i hate it..
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Estel Arador
Minmatar The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:03:00 -
[27]
Pottsey is talking about the specific situation where someone thinks "geez, I have no idea what to train now, I'll just train the advanced learning skills to V". Then later, once those are finished, that person thinks "geez, I would love to have charisma based skills". He then saves a few days on those skills and since the learning skills were trained when nothing else was considered a useful option, Pottsey refuses to take them into account with the pay-off.
This is peculiar reasoning, but note that even if it would be valid reasoning (which is debatable) it only works in this specific scenario. Pottsey's long posts are all about a small minority of players. Someone must not have anything useful to train, decide to train the learning skills, and after that decide that there actually is something useful to train (all the while continuing to play the game, even though they apparently have no goals whatsoever, at least for a while). In any other scenario this does not apply.
It's really not worth the repeated long discussions.
FREE jumpclone service: Thread|Podlog |
Yarinor
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:05:00 -
[28]
@Estal Lots of people switch their training focus.
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Soralio
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Lilith Krell
Originally by: Pottsey Stuff
Facepalm...
I too facepalm at your lack of understanding. Unfortaunte, but we can't all grasp the subtle mysteries of the universe and the fact that there can be life without pew.
I found a De'Veldrin typo that hasn't been ninja-corrected! Do I get a cookie?
Originally by: Mrs Ravenfire
Originally by: IamBeastx you molest dead corpses?
And you? You molest living corpses? I think thats way worse - poor zombies
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Lollipops for Rancors
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Posted - 2009.09.02 17:26:00 -
[30]
He could also be thinking in longer terms where the pay off will eventually come because if you keep playing long enough then CCP will add enough Charisma skills that you want.
People might be a bit sick if T4 ends up being some kind of Bio-tech that needs Charisma to interface with
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