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Cardiana
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:44:00 -
[1]
i just read this in another topic here and found it quite significant:
You can fuel a region worth of towers for the profit one of these makes. I have fuelled 32 towers before when fuel costs were higher and it was still a tiny fraction of this. All the towers can individually turn a profit 99.99% of a time even if it's just reacting normal stuff. The .01% of a time you might have to get up and actually defend the tower with 5000 mates is really pretty insignificant.
The isk from these towers isn't just enough to fuel them, it's enough to provide free capitals to defend them, so realistically the only way you're ever going to get one is if you already have several, or friends with several willing to let you have one.
The game is closed, there's no more new groups coming through that aren't just reformations of old groups, with friends among those that control many moons already.
No longer do you have to control a region of space, you can pick up half a dozen moons and you own 99.9% of that regions income without having to actually 'work' the region.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:47:00 -
[2]
They fight for the moons which in turn return barely enough profit to fund fleets to defend the space and fuel towers to hold the space.
I see no problem. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Cardiana
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Cardiana on 01/09/2009 18:53:20 now we have two opposites here. math is saying something around 20 bill per month.
anyway yeah i guess its ok and all but game is closed kinda has something to it i dont particular like. more moons for the foot folk.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.01 18:55:00 -
[4]
Something has to pay for all the dreads/carrier/moms/titans/outposts.
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:25:00 -
[5]
Confirming 20 Bill a month.
Yes, you need LOTS of friends to grab one of these moons.
In my opinion, Alchemy needs a boost so these moons lose value. Or just make the damn moons run out and respawn in the same region.
Maybe once we start seeing 20m isk T2 Cap Rechargers again, CCP will do something.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:30:00 -
[6]
Once you have reached a critical mass, NO ONE can take aways those moons by force from you.
The whole sov system and pos warefare mechanism shows their flaws currently and I am pretty happy that CCP is working to improve all that.
If they also then would FIX ALCHEMY, then things would become much better.
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:40:00 -
[7]
First off, you're augument amounts to "I don't have one so gimmie one easily."
Secondly, Yes the moons make good money. Most of the 0.0 fighting in Eve is over the rare moons. The ".01% of (the) time" comment refers to the occasion when your alliance is being challenged, which is when you lose billions of isk in ships.
Third, its not 'free'. Someone has to dedicate time to getting fuel, emptying silos, moving to market, etc. Depending on your location in 0.0 this might be difficult. I speak as someone who fueled towers in Cobalt Edge (50 jumps to Jita) for over 2 years.
Lastly, the income is generally used to fund Alliance programs, like BS replacement.
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Je'Nann
Soul Assassins Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.09.01 19:56:00 -
[8]
the common pilot also doesnt see the logistics involved in maintaining them and the network of towers their alliance has. somethings got to pay for the fuel for all the sov towers. he also doesnt see any of the profit after this, so in most peoples eyes theyre broken. but that isk is used for a lot of other things, such as towers for sov battles, etc.
it does seem theres a 'cartel' like pricing of the materials though. normal market forces supply will meet demand and you acheive an equilibrium price. with r64 being in finite supply, your forced to buy at the sellers price. if they dont get the price they want, the seller is able to stockpile for a period when they can receive their price.
end of the day, are a few people getting rich off them or are they just working for their alliance? always seems the guys who have control of the r64's seem to be the guys with titans though
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Je'Nann always seems the guys who have control of the r64's seem to be the guys with titans though
Little known fact: Almost every Titan used in PVP since the first 5 have been pilot financed and owned.
Alliance have better things to spend isk on than a giant e-peen for one person that might not bother to login anymore.
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Shidhe
Minmatar The Babylon5 Consortuim
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:28:00 -
[10]
The biggest problem is that the imbalance is distorting the T2 economy in the entire game, and making much of the rest of the T2 industry unprofitable. Low sec especially is suffering,to the loss of both carebears and pirates.
The huge profits made by the imbalance is fuelling market manipulation on a vast scale. In addition the almost unbelieveable amounts of money accumulated by some characters will totally unbalance things like Dust 514.
For the vast majority of eve players, we have a lose-lose scenario. Except for a few alliances and their forum alts, of course.
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:28:00 -
[11]
Boost R64 moons. Seriously its so hard to maintain suicidal cap heavy alliances with their ****ty output.
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WhiteSavage
Gallente Altruism.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:30:00 -
[12]
I think napfests have closed eve more then r64's ever will.
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Schani Kratnorr
x13
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Posted - 2009.09.01 20:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: WhiteSavage I think napfests have closed eve more then r64's ever will.
Yes because there is no cabal
Consider reading my Wall of text in this thread. I briefly touch the subject of moon distribution and T2 prints.
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Originally by: WhiteSavage I think napfests have closed eve more then r64's ever will.
Yes because there is no cabal
Consider reading my Wall of text in this thread. I briefly touch the subject of moon distribution and T2 prints.
Any *****ing about T2 blueprints in this day and age doesn't understand that quantity > quality.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Originally by: Je'Nann always seems the guys who have control of the r64's seem to be the guys with titans though
Little known fact: Almost every Titan used in PVP since the first 5 have been pilot financed and owned.
Alliance have better things to spend isk on than a giant e-peen for one person that might not bother to login anymore.
Yep. Alliances go for dreads. Dread for every pilot who can more or less float around in it and after that titans. I mean one or two are nice for bridges but dreads are the new battleships in sov warfare. Unless you have 22 titans ofc and can insta DD cap fleets.
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Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: XXSketchxx Something has to pay for all the dreads/carrier/moms/titans/outposts.
You're working under the assumption people were supposed to have all those dreads/carrier/moms/titans/outposts.
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gautan Virdamot
Originally by: XXSketchxx Something has to pay for all the dreads/carrier/moms/titans/outposts.
You're working under the assumption people were supposed to have all those dreads/carrier/moms/titans/outposts.
If the EVE economy supports it, why the hell not?
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Gunship
Amarr Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:22:00 -
[18]
It's more interesting than that, the blue ring cartel are keeping the price high on the open market and effectively controls T2 production.
It does not completely stop you from taking there moons though, you just need a big enough fleet. The big blue NAP corps have to keep there members happy too, if they dont, they may find themself short on cannon fooder.
What I don't like much about it is the limited PVP value, once setup its a cash cow and fairly well protected. The ROI is just too high (as you said).
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Donatien de'Sade
Ars Notoria
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:33:00 -
[19]
There was a thread somewhere where somone suggested changing moons so that they produce a cross range of raw materials (similar to the way asteroids work), this would greatly increase the attractiveness for low sec moon mining without killing off the profit levels of 0.0 moon holding empires. ----------------------------------------------------------- In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move |
Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 21:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gunship It's more interesting than that, the blue ring cartel are keeping the price high on the open market and effectively controls T2 production.
It does not completely stop you from taking there moons though, you just need a big enough fleet. The big blue NAP corps have to keep there members happy too, if they dont, they may find themself short on cannon fooder.
What I don't like much about it is the limited PVP value, once setup its a cash cow and fairly well protected. The ROI is just too high (as you said).
What do you mean by limited PVP value? You see the massive fight over a low-sec R64 between members of your so-called 'Blue Ring Cartel'?
These Alliances still compete with each other regardless if they happen to have similar strategic goals. Goonswarm wont horde if it means Razor gets to buy new Dreads for everyone.
To delude yourself into thinking these guys don't Market PVP with all these resources is close to insanity.
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Schani Kratnorr
x13
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Posted - 2009.09.01 22:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Originally by: WhiteSavage I think napfests have closed eve more then r64's ever will.
Yes because there is no cabal
Consider reading my Wall of text in this thread. I briefly touch the subject of moon distribution and T2 prints.
Any *****ing about T2 blueprints in this day and age doesn't understand that quantity > quality.
Ah the "you are whining"-defence. The last resort of the desperate.
Had you bothered to read my wall of text you might have understood that I am not disagreeing with you. I am trancending the simple discussion and pointing to a simple game design flaw. Other games have messed with unique items in the player-supply chain and things never go well.
See you on the other side of understanding.
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.01 22:38:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Originally by: WhiteSavage I think napfests have closed eve more then r64's ever will.
Yes because there is no cabal
Consider reading my Wall of text in this thread. I briefly touch the subject of moon distribution and T2 prints.
Any *****ing about T2 blueprints in this day and age doesn't understand that quantity > quality.
Ah the "you are whining"-defence. The last resort of the desperate.
Had you bothered to read my wall of text you might have understood that I am not disagreeing with you. I am trancending the simple discussion and pointing to a simple game design flaw. Other games have messed with unique items in the player-supply chain and things never go well.
See you on the other side of understanding.
I saw the part where you complained about Inventors never being able to compete with T2 BPO oweners at materials cost. I stopped reading there.
Consider the investment required to own a T2 BPO verses how many invention slots and materials that would pay for. The inventor will make isk hand-over-fist compared to the T2 BPO owner doing single manufacturing slots.
That's my point. Anyone who says T2 BPO owners have an unfair advantage really needs to consider this.
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Pubsey
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.01 22:48:00 -
[23]
PL probably controls the most r64 out of anyone now and they took their first from BoB, in Delve, with remote rep BS gangs as they couldn't afford to risk capitals. Held them for however long until BoB got around to snatching them back then repeated the process.
To say the game is closed is just ridiculous. You just don't feel like making the effort that people who actually own the moons had to.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.01 23:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pubsey PL probably controls the most r64 out of anyone now and they took their first from BoB, in Delve, with remote rep BS gangs as they couldn't afford to risk capitals. Held them for however long until BoB got around to snatching them back then repeated the process.
To say the game is closed is just ridiculous. You just don't feel like making the effort that people who actually own the moons had to.
lol. they got most from fountain from dying bruce. It wasnt hard killing bruce in rr gangs. Hell you would do the same in t1 cruisers at the time. Thing is game back 1,5 year ago is not what we have now. If you think it is - try to bring some "rr gangs" and take ONE pl moon :D
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.09.01 23:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain That's my point. Anyone who says T2 BPO owners have an unfair advantage really needs to consider this.
T2 BPO's were a flat out bad game design. First indication of CCP admitting to it is that they STOPED doing the lottery. If you can get isk for them, I suggest you do so in a hurry. CCP is balancing this game one notch at a time and T2 BPO's are going to be on the chopping block right there with self destructing your pod to get where you wanted, logging out and being off grid (25 au?) when you do, 15k m/s battlships, and the falcon.
... and when they do please come to the forums and cry about it.
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Schani Kratnorr
x13
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Posted - 2009.09.01 23:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain I saw the part where you complained about Inventors never being able to compete with T2 BPO oweners at materials cost. I stopped reading there.
Exactly my point. You stopped reading and decided I was wrong without considering what I wrote. Asumption is an intellectual error.
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Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.09.01 23:16:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Originally by: Gautan Virdamot
Originally by: XXSketchxx Something has to pay for all the dreads/carrier/moms/titans/outposts.
You're working under the assumption people were supposed to have all those dreads/carrier/moms/titans/outposts.
If the EVE economy supports it, why the hell not?
Because it makes the game boring and a boring game isn't sustainable indefinitely as the realization of the hegemony in place and the shortsightedness of these supposed EVE economists will drive more people away than it need to. With a few simple tweaks the economy of EVE can improve immensely.
Ah man, I got lost there, sorry can you rephrase that, I don't even understand the question anymore or is that even a question? How is risk vs reward not broken?
How is the current situation with moon material price gouging supporting the filthy few but a few rocks for your scotch when on the Titanic? If anything sales of T2 is going down and people risk them less and less and dare I say fly less and less as a consequence. So that support in the economy you claim to have may not be support for very long.
Your frame of mind is truly alien, most interesting and disturbing at the same time.
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.01 23:18:00 -
[28]
moon mins are why 0.0 is so stagnant. No one wants to lose their jewgolds so they just naptrain. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
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