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Scott Ridley
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Posted - 2009.09.04 14:04:00 -
[1]
Hello,
I'm trying to understand how to collapse a WH with good chances to end on the good side.
I read that modules weight has an impact too, not only the ship itself, so I fitted a dominix with a 100mn AB (very heavy stuff, I was quiet surprised), but it didn't seem to have any influence. Are modules important or not ?
Furthermore, I collapsed 3 WH in a row yesterday (from a Wormspace which has a static exit to a C2) and I had three different results (I'm sure no one crossed the WHs except myself).
Is it just me making mistakes ? How do you proceed to close a WH without ending on the wrong side ?
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.09.04 14:10:00 -
[2]
dominix is 0.09 in weight (i hate big numbers) mwd ONLINE might add a bit plates add a bit to mass
usual whs we got have 2.0 in total mass orca has 0.25
now work with that :)
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.09.04 14:16:00 -
[3]
The one time we did it, we ran an Orca back and forth until we got the "Disrupted but not critically". After that, we were going to send the Orca in and out once (if it was inside) or just back in (if outside, which it was). Then we ran a battleship through until we got the "critically disrupted and on the verge of collapse" message, brought it back in, and finished it off with a blockade runner. The BR wasn't that big in mass, but gave us the best chance of getting back safely if it was stuck outside; that particular time the hi-sec hole led into Solitude, in an area that had a few hi-sec systems surrounded by low- and null-sec. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.09.04 14:25:00 -
[4]
I heard that bombs actually work in wormholes. It is 0.0 after all.
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Ace Secunda
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Ace Secunda on 04/09/2009 17:03:46 For 3000 mil mass wormholes (usually C5 and C6)
Send an ORCA with a 100mn AB/MWD through to the other side then run BS's through and back til it goes critical, then jump orca back through with MWD/AB turned on. Voila, closed WH.
For smaller wormholes just find out what 10% of their total Mass is and try to fit a ship up that exceeds this mass with a MWD/AB fitted then move it to oposite side and reduce mass with smaller ships.
'If I can't blow it up It don't exsist'
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:25:00 -
[6]
verge of... is 5% but go on :P
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:28:00 -
[7]
"Verge of" actually is not 5% of the total. The one we collapsed was a 2 billion kilo max capacity hole. 5% of that is 100 million kilos, and an Abbadon is 105. When it hit critical the Abbadon was on the outside, and coming back in did not collapse the hole. We had to run a Prorator (~12 million kilos) through the still-on-the-verge-of-collapse hole about 8 times before it popped. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:37:00 -
[8]
now there comes the "deviation" around. sometimes the usual size wh didnt want to collapse when it should, and sometimes it collapsed earlier when it should (yep fresh and no other ppl where jumping trough)
also.. timers arent exactly 16h either (thanks CCP Prism and co for the devil ways you do) :P
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 00:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Some Advisor
(thanks CCP Prism and co for the devil ways you do) :P
Anoying ... me want more infos, not vauge words pls. :)
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Terrera
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Posted - 2009.09.05 03:58:00 -
[10]
Just a tip-
Don't use your rorqual to pop those pesky, inconvenient wormholes.
This can lead to many "exciting" hours of unexpected travel : )
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Ace Secunda
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.09.05 09:24:00 -
[11]
Quote: verge of... is 5% but go on :P
Learn to love losing ships
'If I can't blow it up It don't exsist'
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rubico1337
Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ace Secunda
Quote: verge of... is 5% but go on :P
Learn to love losing ships
this was my doing. glad it caught on :)
Originally by: Lana Torrin
I'm getting pretty ****ed off with the supposedly hard core PvPers complaining about every little thing that gets changed. seriously, more tears than carebears.
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Kiyumii
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Posted - 2009.09.06 07:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Some Advisor verge of... is 10% but go on :P
fixed.
5% is outdated or was never right to begin with. :)
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:14:00 -
[14]
can ya give more insight? i always praised arcdragon and helped him with some data (and confirmed so far that as example 16H wormholes dont want to collapse at 16H :P, some were 16H10 some 16H20 one even 17H) arc mumbled something about 45% and 5% when stuff changes and it looked confirmed. But then throwing Orcas trough always fixed "the issue" anyway :P
so, what can YOU tell me about the 45/50% and 5/10% thing? :P
and i still say there might be some deviation just to make it harder :P
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Some Advisor also.. timers arent exactly 16h either (thanks CCP Prism and co for the devil ways you do) :P
No, it's 16h/24h + dt. At least, that's what I figured last spring, haven't given it any thought since then.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.09.06 10:08:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Some Advisor on 06/09/2009 10:08:18
i *NEVER* got an exact 16H timer for an supposed 16H wh though and there was quite some after dt so that cant be it alone.
more data plz
deviation in form from + DT wouild be an lazy way of deviation, but that actualyl fits to CCP style (sorry guys :P) :P
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Macchia Velli
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Posted - 2009.09.06 12:18:00 -
[17]
I use a Typhoon when i need to pop a WH, fitted with cloak and probe launcher,if i should end up on the "wrong" side. Rest of the fitting is an armor fit with a 1600mm plate, the figure i have is somewhat over 10500 in mass, so ten times back and forth will pop a WH, with a 2 billion kg's limit. The only hassle are the timers kicking into action, when succesive jumps been done.
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JonShannow
Caldari Regante
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Posted - 2009.09.06 14:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: JonShannow on 06/09/2009 14:02:39 WH size does deviate, (I have closed hundreds) I am not gonna tell you how but they can vary from 200 mill+ to over 300 mill in some cases.
If you want to close WH's you are gonna lose the odd ship.
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Kiyumii
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Posted - 2009.09.06 17:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Some Advisor can ya give more insight? i always praised arcdragon and helped him with some data (and confirmed so far that as example 16H wormholes dont want to collapse at 16H :P, some were 16H10 some 16H20 one even 17H) arc mumbled something about 45% and 5% when stuff changes and it looked confirmed. But then throwing Orcas trough always fixed "the issue" anyway :P
so, what can YOU tell me about the 45/50% and 5/10% thing? :P
and i still say there might be some deviation just to make it harder :P
we never really cared about the 45/50% thingy, but its near those two nubers.
We're pretty shure its 10%, just test it this way:
bring a 3b WH (i.e. C5 Static) down to the last stage with BS with active AB/WMT (these count wheen active and give you 50mil!), the "shrinking jump" must be the returning one. if it would be 5%, the remaining mass would be max 150mil, or in the worst case near 1mil. now take a cheap, insured BS with AB/MWD (not active) and an usless suicidealt and jump. if it would bei 5%, the WH should collapse most of the time, but it doesent. Activate MWD/AB and jump back. sometimes its still there, and you brought 250mil mass though it in the last stage. :) other way: bring it down to the last stage, best with the jumb back. get some victim alts in Iteron I (thats how we're finishing WHs off that wont collapse the other way - no orca :( ) start juming and sum the whole mass. you'll be surprised. ;)
It seems the max Mass deviates by 10%, so an 3b C5 Static could be 3b, but also it could ony be 2.7b oder 3.3b - or something between those numbers. Currently im checking the random numbers, it _seems_ that the steps are arround 0.1b - but im not shure yet and it needs more testing. (or our 2 last WH closings were just plain luck in the numbers ^^ and before i never cared about this fact, so i didnt wrote down the numbers. :) )
the lifetime of an WH is never 16H or 24H. until a vew days ago, we just added +1h and it "fit". But sometimes it seems it a bit less than 1h so i guessed they just add the DT - but on the other hand, extended DT and really short didn't count, that's a bit confusing. :)
sorry for the bad engrish. hope your eyes are not bleeding yet. :p
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.09.07 21:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kiyumii the lifetime of an WH is never 16H or 24H. until a vew days ago, we just added +1h and it "fit". But sometimes it seems it a bit less than 1h so i guessed they just add the DT - but on the other hand, extended DT and really short didn't count, that's a bit confusing. :)
ya its sometimes closer to 17H, but i also got 16H10, 16H20 and one wh "that just dont want to frigging DIE" after it was about 3 hours overdue or so. maybe wrong startlogging *shrugs*
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:23:00 -
[21]
so let me get this right with ab-mwd on u add 50% extra weight per jump to youre wormhole. Mmm ok so im using a domi with a plate brings it in at 103m so add 51m extra. Mmm i like this idea thanks
So is it confirmed ?
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.09.10 13:49:00 -
[22]
yes, its confirmed that CCP does evil things to mess us all up :)
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