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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:13:00 -
[1]
As some of you may have guessed by now, Dominion release will bring improvements to most in-game faction ships, as we do feel they do not perform properly in their intended roles at the time being.
This thread will focus on upcoming navy ship improvements, meaning Tech 1 hull variants from the four main empire factions (Amarr Empire, Caldari State, Gallente Federation, Minmatar Republic). Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback.
Please keep in mind such changes remains subject to modifications with time.
We would also like to thank every one involved in the testing and constructive feedback process so far, as it has proved to be quite invaluable during the first design process. Keep it coming! |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:17:15 I. Navy Frigates:
Due to their split weapon layout and lack of dedicated role, navy frigates usefulness remains quite limited. We plan to turn them into an hybrid of interceptors and Assault frigate classes, combining points of both, being less specialized than the Tech2 hulls, thus more versatile but less resilient.
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òHas been renamed to Imperal Navy Slicer òNew slot layout: 3 high, 2 med and 5 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 115 CPU, 47 powergrid òBonuses: 25% to small energy turret damage and 10% to turret range bonus per Amarr Frigate skill level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Punisher) òCapacitor: 500 capacitor, 2815.5s recharge (about 1.8 cap/s) òSpeed: 390m/s, 3.3 agility òSensor: 31km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 550mm scan resolution, 10 radar sensor strength, 38m signature radius
Caldari Navy Hookbill:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 5 med, 2 low slots, 3 launchers, no turrets òFittings: 165 CPU, 37 powergrid òBonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile velocity per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Merlin) òCapacitor: 281 capacitor, 1875s recharge (about 1.5 cap/s) òSensor: 35km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 600mm scan resolution, 12 gravimetric sensor strength, 40m signature radius
Gallente Navy Comet:
òHas been renamed to Federation Navy Comet òNew slot layout: 3 high, 3 med, 4 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 152 CPU, 40 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Tristan) òDronebay increased to 30m3, drone bandwidth increased to 15m3 òCapacitor: 365 capacitor, 2343.75s recharge (about 1.55 cap/s) òSensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers òFittings: 140 CPU, 39 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Merlin) òCapacitor: 250 capacitor, 1875s recharge (about 1.3 cap/s) òSensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:13:00 -
[3]
II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
Created a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away when they were at the top of the food chain with no capital or T2 hulls to compete with, navy tier 2 battleships actually receive little and disparate boost to their intended role(s). The following changes are aimed to fix this.
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
Apocalypse Navy Issue:
òFittings: 580 CPU, 21525 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
Raven Navy Issue:
òFittings: 735 CPU, 10925 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
Megathron Navy Issue:
òFittings: 605 CPU, 16275 powergrid òDronebay increased by 50m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +5% max velocity and agility increased by 5%
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òNew slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers òFittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:20:09 III. Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Tier 1 battleships now have navy versions with new skins thanks to our Art department. These will be obtainable through Factional Warfare LP stores (and only through them) with 150k LPs, nexus chips and the proper base hull version.
Armageddon Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows, 7 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 557 CPU, 17325 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òBonuses unchanged next to normal hull òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9316), armor (9961) and shields (8203) òDronebay: +50m3 dronebay, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% radar sensor strength
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
Dominix Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) òCapacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 8 high, 4 med, 7 low, 5 turrets, 5 launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 13125 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9316), armor (9316) and shields (8203)* òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10% òSensor: +25% ladar sensor strength
* Standard Typhoon armor and shield values have been swapped as well
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Krem daBrut
Marquie-X Corp Atropos.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:44:00 -
[5]
Republic Fleet Typhoon!! I hope you dont joking. The ship i want to have for a long time. Time to get my alt into FW.
You sure the Firetail based on the Merlin?
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Bibbleibble on 04/09/2009 17:45:44 Oh....
Oh my....
Dear God I want now!!!! ________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (Now with added summary!) |
Jamyl TashMurkon
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:49:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jamyl TashMurkon on 04/09/2009 17:49:51
Originally by: Bibbleibble Edited by: Bibbleibble on 04/09/2009 17:45:44 Oh....
Oh my....
Dear God I want now!!!!
QFT
Also boost pirate faction ships ffs
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 04/09/2009 17:51:54 Edited by: Myra2007 on 04/09/2009 17:51:37
edit: i see what you did there...
Anyway i've been waiting for this since empyrean age (when the overhaul was announced originally:). And now you're finally adding tier1 versions on top - awesome work! --
Originally by: Professor Slocombe
I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:53:00 -
[9]
I think you guys misplaced the decimal points in the frigs cap recharge times........
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:58:00 -
[10]
!
Navy Scrop seems very similar to navy Raven tho. Less dps more tank. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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Vir Hellnamin
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
* Standard Typhoon armor and shield values have been swapped as well
Thank you. -- "Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 17:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 18:00:54
Originally by: Krem daBrut You sure the Firetail based on the Merlin?
...
changes to tier 1 cruisers? the split-armed scythe for example...?
/me sheds a semi-serious tear for the firetail speed bonus though
and you got some sensor/signature relations wrong - putting the gist back into logistics |
Lord Haur
Amarr StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Max Hardcase I think you guys misplaced the decimal points in the frigs cap recharge times........
Confirming, the Slicer's recharge time has gone up by approx 10x
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Dominix Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) ò Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
<3
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Roman
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:14:00 -
[14]
EPIC!!!!!!!
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Rhaegor Stormborn
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:14:00 -
[15]
Glad to see these changes coming. Click Me! |
schurem
Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:14:00 -
[16]
navy dominix, navy phoon, fapfapfapfap
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: schurem navy dominix, navy phoon, fapfapfapfap
This sound is so loud by the ones who read about navy domi its defening :P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Ronen Osden
Caldari Ronen's NEW And Improved Mining Services
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:26:00 -
[18]
Like the changes....but still NAVY ROKH PLEASE!...
Or How about a new T2 BS - (Insert cool name here) that uses the tier 3 ships....like an 8 launcher rokh?
I just wanted to add that because i think that a rokh looks more like a missle boat then a raven...they should switch :)
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:26:00 -
[19]
FW LP fail is fail.
The new navy battleships looks really powerful, but who the hell is going to get that kind of LP. Atm we hardly even got the navy plates/drones etc on market.
Sort out lowsec lag and FW as a whole and these additions might be nice, but right now it's just adding fail to fail. Teasing players with sexy stuff noone will have is..
..fail. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Linas IV on 04/09/2009 18:35:41 Please, PLEASE, give the Fleet Tempest eneough PG to fit 7x1400s + 1600RT + MWD without a fitting mod. PLEASE!!!
BTW the Navy-Phoon is AWESOME!!!
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:29:00 -
[21]
I'm confused, slightly befuddled by the radiance of this thread.
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Roman
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Glad to see these changes coming.
Is it possible for you to become more of a ***?
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Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:31:00 -
[23]
Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
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Vir Hellnamin
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:38:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 04/09/2009 18:39:05 Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 04/09/2009 18:38:20
Also, why does Apoc NI get more CPU and PG boost than the rest, and Arma NI +1 slot more than the rest Tier 1 faction hulls (and more drones, and basically gets rid of all the weak-points of that hull)?
... do we know the reason
-- "Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
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Rudolf Miller
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:41:00 -
[25]
My Life Is Complete!!!
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:46:00 -
[26]
hummhummhumm after a first glance...
- not sure that's enough pg for a 7-turret-tempest - tempest lost an entire slot for that turret...? - not sure that's enough pg for a 5/5-phoon - glad to see the geddon rocking everything with +1 slot - quite a mighty increase of the geddon cpu that's more than the 6-mid-tempest currently has - the "sensor resolution", as you call it, do all get +25 or will amarr lock (much) faster than minmtar?
what to give a ship that has everything, amirite? - putting the gist back into logistics |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.04 18:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Max Hardcase I think you guys misplaced the decimal points in the frigs cap recharge times........
Fixed.
Originally by: Krem daBrut You sure the Firetail based on the Merlin?
No it's Rifter. This was not the typo you were looking for *waves hand*
Originally by: Areo Hotah Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
Raven Navy Issue does not receive extra mid/low slots as well. Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think? The Scorpion Navy Issue also receives an extra high slot with its 5th launcheer but this is due to its role change, as it is based on an ECM hull.
Originally by: Vir Hellnamin Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 04/09/2009 18:39:05 Edited by: Vir Hellnamin on 04/09/2009 18:38:20
Also, why does Apoc NI get more CPU and PG boost than the rest, and Arma NI +1 slot more than the rest Tier 1 faction hulls (and more drones, and basically gets rid of all the weak-points of that hull)?
... do we know the reason
Dominix Navy Issue receives an extra med-slot, Scorpion an extra high-slot; Typhoon Navy Issue receives extra-damage or setup versatility (depends on the setups) with 5/5 turrets/launchers. The Armageddon does not get more drones but more replacements, just like others. It gets 50m3 dronebay increase just like the Megathron Navy Issue since it relies on heavy drones to do the job.
The CPU/powergrid boost on the tier 2 navy battleships is also weighted regarding other capabilities they receive, and the role they are supposed to achieve. |
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:04:00 -
[28]
Torpion!!!! I cannot wait to build my torpion! guess torp raven will be retired soon...
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Oosha
Minmatar Kinetic Vector Aces and Eights Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:04:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Areo Hotah Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
Probably because CCP ran out of Ductape :P
Disclaimer: not intended as a rant, flame or any other insult, though intended as innocent punn.......
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Aralieus
Amarr Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:07:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Aralieus on 04/09/2009 19:07:39 May we plz get links to see what the tier 1 Facton battleships look like -Ara |
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Markus Reese Torpion!!!! I cannot wait to build my torpion! guess torp raven will be retired soon...
6 launchers still win out;) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Vestus Regula
doMAL S.A.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:09:00 -
[32]
w00t... more ECM nerf! Isn't the hammer comming down way too often on this one?
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:10:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/09/2009 19:12:09
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Originally by: Areo Hotah Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
Raven Navy Issue does not receive extra mid/low slots as well. Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think? The Scorpion Navy Issue also receives an extra high slot with its 5th launcheer but this is due to its role change, as it is based on an ECM hull.
Not really. For your edification and perusal: A large discussion on what the Tempest does and doesn't need: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1130224 A CSM topic to fix the Tempest and projectiles: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1165197 Pretty much everyone thinks Minmatar BS's and projectiles suck: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1051722
So what you're really saying here is that you're removing a mid, removing a utility high, and boosting the Tempest's damage a bit and calling it good. At the same time you're boosting all the other faction battleships. Sweet... thanks, another subpar Minmatar BS CCP!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
DelboyTrotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:11:00 -
[34]
Love the New Phoon but...
WTF Have you done to the Fleet Pest???
Quote: Tempest Fleet Issue:
ò New slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers ò Fittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
You removed a midslot on the Faction Ship with the worst tank... why so much hate for Minmatar?
OK it does more damage but why change the 6/6 slot layout to 5/6 ? make it 6/6 again or 5/7. |
fab24
Gallente Order of Anarchy The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Areo Hotah Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
Yeah, stop nerfing minmatars...
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Jessica Bains
Silicon Moon
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:19:00 -
[36]
Domi has always been one of my favorite BS.
Long before there were T2 BS, I was hoping for some kind of "improved" version of it.
Then came Black Ops, which filled a different role and weren't really what I had in mind.
Eventually...here it is, the Navy Domi! Thanks a ton!!!
Also for the other new Tier1 Navy Ships and for polishing the Tier2 ones.
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Jillius
Gallente Valheru Empire Science and Production Agency
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:22:00 -
[37]
Dominix Navy Issue!
I love you CCP...
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:23:00 -
[38]
Yitters, why does my precious Navy Domi not use 10 Ogre IIs at once, instead of 5?
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Lacen Wolk
the united
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:24:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Lacen Wolk on 04/09/2009 19:24:33 Would it be possible to add faction bonuses to frigs, for example Gallente Navy Comet: 5% bonus to scram range per level. That would make them way more useful than they are now.
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God GirlFriend
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: DelboyTrotter Love the New Phoon but...
WTF Have you done to the Fleet Pest???
Quote: Tempest Fleet Issue:
ò New slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers ò Fittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
You removed a midslot on the Faction Ship with the worst tank... why so much hate for Minmatar?
OK it does more damage but why change the 6/6 slot layout to 5/6 ? make it 6/6 again or 5/7.
NOPE.. ccp removed 2 SLOTS FORM TEMPEST! ! from mid 1 from high. Now tempest fleet issue has the damage a normal BS from a proper hull have.. but not the high slot advantages that tempest usually have and not the lots of mids that it used to have.
BUT.. even so I think the speed boost combined with the 7th turrets are barely acceptable.
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Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Originally by: Areo Hotah Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
Raven Navy Issue does not receive extra mid/low slots as well. Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think? The Scorpion Navy Issue also receives an extra high slot with its 5th launcheer but this is due to its role change, as it is based on an ECM hull.
Keep in mind that an extra low-slot could mean you can squeeze on an additional damage mod, or more tank, depending on what you want, and I don't know a single ship fitting that wouldn't benefit from an additional mid-slot (as long as they can fit it). A 7th turret slot on the tempest is +16.7% dps, but only if you actually fit the gun. And as mentioned before, it's going to be a pain to fit artilleries, I think.
From 4/4 to 5/5 is only a marginal increase. The 5/5 slot layout should be on the basic 'phoon, but that is not what we discuss here. A lot of gank-phoons already had all the high slots full, so it only makes the choice easier of which damage mod you want to fit in a 5/3 setup. For RR-BS something similar goes, but not everybody fits damage mods on them. As with the Tempest, the Typhoon has serious fitting problems: no grid for something long-range with arties, and very very tight on CPU. With the Navy 'phoon, I am not so sure if you could squeeze on 5 siege launchers with 2 BCU, and the usual other slots. It received 10% more CPU, and that is quite something, but not sure if it is enough. If you go AC's, it's the problem of large projectiles being bad in general compared to other BS turrets.
So in my opinion, an additional low or mid slot is more valuable than an additional hardpoint. If you stick to the slots, then the Tempest needs more grid to comfortably allow for a 7-slot 1400mm setup, and the 'phoon probably also needs some additional CPU and grid, and I wouldn't mind if you tweaked a bit with the bonuses, for example changing 5% ROF in 7.5% ROF or damage.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:28:00 -
[42]
This is very nice. A major step forward. I like the two-turrets-with-huge-dmg-bonuses thing going on with the Slicer.
I also very much enjoy the Navy Scorpion and Armageddon. Replacement drones will be very nice to have. I can't wait to hear what you're changing with respect to faction cruisers and pirate BS.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:35:00 -
[43]
calling dibs on
[Armageddon Navy Issue, New Setup 1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Internal Force Field Array I Reactor Control Unit II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5 Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x2
yes, fits perfectly - putting the gist back into logistics |
Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:35:00 -
[44]
Quote: Dominix Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) ò Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
sorry but 6 mids and 7 lows for a battleship that uses drones as its main DPS is horribly unbalanced slot configuration compared to other BS. Far too much versatility. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kayosoni
Quote: Dominix Navy Issue:
• Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers • Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots • Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) • Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) • Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged • Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
sorry but 6 mids and 7 lows for a battleship that uses drones as its main DPS is horribly unbalanced slot configuration compared to other BS. Far too much versatility.
It will be a beast, and a deamon in RR. :P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
AtheistOfDoom
Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Vestus Regula w00t... more ECM nerf! Isn't the hammer comming down way too often on this one?
Dude it's CCP. I like the changes to the navy mega though. Pew Pew Lazorz!!! |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:48:00 -
[47]
One question tho, why limit the new cool BSs to FW? Why not let us regular guys fighting our own wars get some shineies as well? :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Torrealmenada
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:50:00 -
[48]
What about Cruisers?!?
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:54:00 -
[49]
Quote: Caldari Navy Hookbill:
ò New slot layout: 3 high, 5 med, 2 low slots, 3 launchers, no turrets ò Fittings: 165 CPU, 37 powergrid ò Bonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile velocity per level ò Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Merlin) ò Capacitor: 281 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.5 cap/s) ò Speed: 370m/s, 3.3 agility ò Sensor: 35km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 600mm scan resolution, 12 gravimetric sensor strength, 40m signature radius
ok so, you took away the little ability of tank it had (resist bonus) to give it a missile velocity bonus, and then you gave it a completely CRAP targeting range is probably about half of the missile range, so that you also need to fit 2 sensor boosters to fire at the range you have, making it have 0 tanking ability at all.
cool assault frigate. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
foobarx
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:57:00 -
[50]
I agree with Liang. These changes make the Tempest, already the worst battleship in the game, even more... worst.
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Vertical Axis
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:58:00 -
[51]
I like these ideas, esp the idea of more faction bs.
I do appreciate that you're taking the time to look at the tempest fleet issue, as it is one of the more useless faction bs out there. Its problem at present is insufficient slots to armor tank efficiently or shield tank efficiently, while having the added problem of not doing much dps.
While the addition of a 7th turret slot helps the dps issue, removing a midslot means that this ship's only option for tanking is going to be via armor, and there's only 6 lowslots. This is going to be insufficient and basically makes it so that the ship will still not be very useful.
I would suggest taking the old slot layout and swapping a mid for a low, or vice versa. Removing a mid and not replacing it makes the ship even harder to use effectively.
Also, I am not sure that the agility / speed bonuses on both minmtar battleships will matter. Battleships as a rule more or less sit still and pound at each other because of transversal issues, their low speeds (150-200 m/s without mwd or ab), and low agility (usually 10 seconds plus align time). Giving these battleships 10% more speed and 10% more agility makes them slightly faster and agile, but they'll still be bricks and they'll still be used essentially to sit still and pound. If the intent is to create a vaga-bs for minmatar (a ship that mwd's around, orbits at 20, and uses transversal to tank), I would suggest buffing the agility or speed of these ships even further or making it be 5% per bs level or something so that they actually have the ability to orbit at range and skirmish.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:06:00 -
[52]
Any plans to update the sexiest frig in game, the Dramiel, with similar stats as the navy frigs?
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Chronos VIII
Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:06:00 -
[53]
I came
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Cocurachan
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:10:00 -
[54]
Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?
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Efdi
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:10:00 -
[55]
You've screwed up the electronics balance for the frigates.
In all other classes, Minmatar ships have the worst lock range and sensor strength in exchange for having the highest scan res. Caldari have the longest lock range and highest sensor strength, but the worst scan res. Amarr and Gallente ships fall in between. Instead you seem to have given the Navy Hookbill the highest scan res and nerfed the Fleet Firetail even further. You should probably fix this before you release this expansion~
Comparison of Tier 2 Battlecruisers:
Drake Targeting range: 60km Sensor strength: 19 Scan res: 195mm
Myrmidon Targeting range: 55km Sensor strength: 18 Scan res: 200mm
Harbinger Targeting range: 50km Sensor strength: 16 Scan res: 210mm
Hurricane Targeting range: 45km Sensor strength: 16 Scan res: 220mm
Comparison of Logistics:
Basilisk Targeting range: 80km Sensor strength: 22 Scan res: 350mm
Onieros Targeting range: 70km Sensor strength: 20 Scan res: 365mm
Guardian Targeting range: 65km Sensor strength: 18 Scan res: 385mm
Scimitar Targeting range: 60km Sensor strength: 17 Scan res: 400mm
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:13:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Markus Reese Torpion!!!! I cannot wait to build my torpion! guess torp raven will be retired soon...
6 launchers still win out;)
uh no. Navy scorp like this is pretty much amazing, and 5 torps with drones is still 750-800 DPS. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Tuberider
Caldari Pothouse Cartel IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:14:00 -
[57]
AT LAST T1 faction bs Makes me a happy camper indeed
Thanks for Your Stuff |
Milo Caman
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:18:00 -
[58]
Knew It was worth buying a Comet =D
Out of Sinq |
Companion Qube
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:19:00 -
[59]
This is awesome, now put them on the market instead of making us need contracts.
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:19:00 -
[60]
navy scorp \o/ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:20:00 -
[61]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 20:24:48
Originally by: Cocurachan Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?
It's supposed to use armor tank.
My normal Tempest eats Ravens to breakfast easily from time to time with an armor tank and dual heavy neuts.
I personally think the new Fleet Tempest is going to be pretty nice in small gangs and close range fights.
Ofc, it will sucks a little to not be able to use 2x Heavy Neuts on it if your using 7x guns, but lets see how it turns out. I can't really says how it is before i have tried the new version of the Fleet Tempest out.
EDIT: Now we just need the Projectile buff and i think an AC Fleet Tempest will be niiiiiice.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Sazuka Kirr
Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:21:00 -
[62]
Yay! Tempt more people to join FW without really doing anything to make FW better.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:21:00 -
[63]
Oh my.
Dominix Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) ò Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
<3
Just perfect. Couldnt ask for better. Absolutely love it.
Also looking over the other ships. I cant say I have anything bad to say about them.
Quote: * Standard Typhoon armor and shield values have been swapped as well
AWESOME.
Quote: General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
Was this done to make it possible to make it possible to passive shield tank them? Though it's a massive nerf to the Tempest Fleet Issue such that it basically invalidates that possible use of the ship. So erm ya that's crappy.
FACTION CAPITALS!
Thanatos Navy Issue Moros Navy Issue ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Lumy
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:23:00 -
[64]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Dominix Navy Issue receives an extra med-slot, Scorpion an extra high-slot; Typhoon Navy Issue receives extra-damage or setup versatility (depends on the setups) with 5/5 turrets/launchers. The Armageddon does not get more drones but more replacements, just like others. It gets 50m3 dronebay increase just like the Megathron Navy Issue since it relies on heavy drones to do the job.
The CPU/powergrid boost on the tier 2 navy battleships is also weighted regarding other capabilities they receive, and the role they are supposed to achieve.
Armageddon, Apocalypse, Megathron and other with drone changes - Replacements? Nayyyy... More like another set of lights to get rid of those pesky mission frigs. Scorpion - Interesting twist. Raven - No big change here. Dominix - Okay, it's not even a bit overpowered. Typhoon, Tempest - Excuse me, BUT WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!? (Sorry for caps, but I want it too)/ Seriously, you could get more "versatility" with adding/moving single low slot - Tempest 8/5/7, Typhoon 8/4/8. Damage increase from single Gyro/BCU II would be comparable - more on Tempest, less on Typhoon. Ship wouldn't need to waste high slot on more or less mandatory gun. Pilot would have choice to make ship more ganky or more tanky.
Now, you either use the high slot on gun/launcher, or you have just standard T1 battleship with some more base HP.
And finally, could anyone from CCP explain, what do you mean by "versatility", please?
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Anubis Hothyck
Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:29:00 -
[65]
I like most of the changes though.
Any report on the Pirate Faction ships? The Cruor is next to useless with two mid slots for example =)
Contact me for R&K Diplomatic Issues and Recruitment. |
Vylth
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:31:00 -
[66]
Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?
For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.
I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice. |
Iohan Sjet
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:32:00 -
[67]
I like what I've seen so far. "Cibus tormenti conducendus" |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar Icarus Prime
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:36:00 -
[68]
Republic Fleet Tempest and Typhoon: I just came!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:36:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Vylth Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?
For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.
I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice.
**** off seriously. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:38:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 20:39:08
Originally by: Vylth Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?
For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.
I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice.
well... you get lots more cpu via that med slot which you could waste on a sentry damage augmentor... :o Originally by: Bomberlocks Republic Fleet Tempest and Typhoon: I just came!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feel free to take a closer look -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:39:00 -
[71]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=983423&page=1
This is how you do the Mission Running Fleet Tempest. Your changes to it make it break utterly. Horribly nerfed shield recharge and 1 less mid slot.
I'd ask you keep the same level recharge for the faction pest. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:39:00 -
[72]
Teir 3's need some love too.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:40:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vylth Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?
For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.
I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice.
An extra mid can be used for a Target Painter (bigger sig means more/bigger hits) or you could add another Omni directional Tracking link (better tracking so more and bigger hits). Ether can add more DPS.
I also do not see any info posted that restricts these ships to the FW LP store. If the Navy ships are in normal LP stores these should be too. Sure your paying 2x the LP but it seems that FW LP is running on the 5 digit ISK to PL rate so "normal" LP stores sould still be the more affordable option.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:43:00 -
[74]
Fleet tempest.. still VERY VERY weak 16% extra dps.. you could do it much more easily just giving an extra low slot instead of mid.
So this is a NERF to the ship when compared to the other navy ships. UNLESS ccp also pay attention on the largest and most visited thread on ship and modules forum on last 2 months and Boost the damm projectiles!
Fleet typhoon.. oo well now with 0% EPIC FACTOR! Wtf 1 less slot when comapred to other ships for the capability of just beign a BIT more focused on its weapons?
Would be ok if it was a 6/6 turret/missile hard points.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:44:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Bibbleibble Edited by: Bibbleibble on 04/09/2009 17:45:44 Oh....
Oh my....
Dear God I want now!!!!
This
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Lord Haur
Amarr StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Ashina Sito I also do not see any info posted that restricts these ships to the FW LP store. If the Navy ships are in normal LP stores these should be too. Sure your paying 2x the LP but it seems that FW LP is running on the 5 digit ISK to PL rate so "normal" LP stores sould still be the more affordable option.
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium III. Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Tier 1 battleships now have navy versions with new skins thanks to our Art department. These will be obtainable through Factional Warfare LP stores (and only through them) with 150k LPs, nexus chips and the proper base hull version.
L2Read?
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:45:00 -
[77]
CCP:
You might want to look into frigate CPUs. For example what did you expect to be able to fit into a navy Slicer with its 115cpu. A damage control alone takes 30cpu.
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:45:00 -
[78]
Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.
Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.
Your just taking away their flexibility...
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Vylth
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:46:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ashina Sito
Originally by: Vylth ...
An extra mid can be used for a Target Painter (bigger sig means more/bigger hits) or you could add another Omni directional Tracking link (better tracking so more and bigger hits). Ether can add more DPS.
Originally by: Roemy Schneider Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 20:39:08
Originally by: Vylth ...
well... you get lots more cpu via that med slot which you could waste on a sentry damage augmentor... :o
Any ship can fit those mods, the navy one will be just a little more versatile.
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Caroline Nikon
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:50:00 -
[80]
Also.. Fleet tempest CANNOT FIT full racks of 1400mm even with the PG boost. The old one could. Increase it 700 PG more or the ship will be even more nerfed than it is now.
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Lumy
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:50:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Lumy on 04/09/2009 20:51:38
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Amarr Navy Slicer: òBonuses: 25% to small energy turret damage and 10% to turret range bonus per Amarr Frigate skill level
Caldari Navy Hookbill: òBonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile
Gallente Navy Comet: òBonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level
Republic Fleet Firetail: òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level
25% to small energy turret damage compared to 20% on others. Is it a typo?
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:52:00 -
[82]
Originally by: fuxinos Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.
Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.
Your just taking away their flexibility...
you're dumb. Compare the navy scorp grid with the widow's grid. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Mavvaz
Dark Star Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:53:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: fuxinos Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.
Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.
Your just taking away their flexibility...
you're dumb. Compare the navy scorp grid with the widow's grid.
Pfft go back to L2blah :)
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Liang Nuren
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:54:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Lumy 25% to small energy turret damage compared to 20% on others. Is it a typo?
Of course not. They're catering to a rapidly increasing part of their player base. Amarr *is* FOTM according to the latest dev economics blog.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
foobarx
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:56:00 -
[85]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 20:24:48
Originally by: Cocurachan Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?
It's supposed to use armor tank.
Right. You're going to take the BS with the lowest DPS output and remove its weapon upgrades. Good luck with that.
Quote: My normal Tempest eats Ravens to breakfast easily from time to time with an armor tank and dual heavy neuts.
Not without a huge SP disparity it doesn't. Ganking month-old players in their first level 4 mission doesn't count.
Quote: EDIT: Now we just need the Projectile buff and i think an AC Fleet Tempest will be niiiiiice.
Perhaps, but until then plain vanilla tier 1 battleships from the other factions will be mopping the floor with the fleet tempest.
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MalVortex
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:57:00 -
[86]
Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.
In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:00:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 04/09/2009 21:01:22 Overall these changes look like a step in the right direction, pending fitting tests on the actual server to see if you've given them a proper amount of grid/CPU, with two exceptions:
1) The Navy Hookbill: it is a railboat, and it should continue to be a railboat. Please remember that Caldari use more than just missiles, and deserve some attention paid to their other weapon systems. Also, since frigate missiles are currently laughably bad, this is not a good change.
Instead, give it 25% hybrid turret damage, 10% hybrid optimal range, and 5% shield resists, with enough grid to fit a full rack of 150mm rails, a MWD, cap booster, and medium shield extender without any grid mods (to make it different from the Harpy, which can not fit as good a mid-range setup). Keeping both extra high slots with enough grid/CPU to fit T2 standard launchers would be even more awesome.
2) The Navy Scorpion: honestly, this is just terrible, and arguably even worse than a standard Raven. Sure, it's got a ton of EHP, a resist bonus, and 8 slots for tank, but in PvP dps is FAR more important than tank, and the missing launcher compared to the standard Raven is a huge drawback, while the missing range bonus takes away one of the Raven's major advantages. Add in the huge price thanks to only being available with FW LPs, and you have a ship that will see little use.
I honestly don't know what to do with this one without just making a better torp Raven. Perhaps dust off that old ECM/gank Scorpion you had when you were nerfing ECM ships? 6 launchers, ROF bonus, 30% ECM strength per level would be a fun ship to fly, if a bit expensive considering its chances of being immediately primaried. ==========
Merin is banned (yet again). Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:02:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Lord Haur
L2Read?
Missed it, thanks. No need to be trollish.
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:02:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 04/09/2009 21:01:22 Overall these changes look like a step in the right direction, pending fitting tests on the actual server to see if you've given them a proper amount of grid/CPU, with two exceptions:
1) The Navy Hookbill: it is a railboat, and it should continue to be a railboat. Please remember that Caldari use more than just missiles, and deserve some attention paid to their other weapon systems. Also, since frigate missiles are currently laughably bad, this is not a good change.
Instead, give it 25% hybrid turret damage, 10% hybrid optimal range, and 5% shield resists, with enough grid to fit a full rack of 150mm rails, a MWD, cap booster, and medium shield extender without any grid mods (to make it different from the Harpy, which can not fit as good a mid-range setup). Keeping both extra high slots with enough grid/CPU to fit T2 standard launchers would be even more awesome.
2) The Navy Scorpion: honestly, this is just terrible, and arguably even worse than a standard Raven. Sure, it's got a ton of EHP, a resist bonus, and 8 slots for tank, but in PvP dps is FAR more important than tank, and the missing launcher compared to the standard Raven is a huge drawback, while the missing range bonus takes away one of the Raven's major advantages. Add in the huge price thanks to only being available with FW LPs, and you have a ship that will see little use.
I honestly don't know what to do with this one without just making a better torp Raven. Perhaps dust off that old ECM/gank Scorpion you had when you were nerfing ECM ships? 6 launchers, ROF bonus, 30% ECM strength per level would be a fun ship to fly, if a bit expensive considering its chances of being immediately primaried.
wouldn't mind seeing the gank ecm scorp either, although the widow already plays that role even better. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Caroline Nikon
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:03:00 -
[90]
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.
In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.
You realize how OMFG overpowered a 7.5% ROF geddon would be? Unless of course ALL ships got their 5% bonuses changed into 7.5% ones... (look for the tasty tempest that has 2 of thsoe to change :P )
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:10:00 -
[91]
Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 21:13:53
Originally by: foobarx
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 04/09/2009 20:24:48
Originally by: Cocurachan Removing a med slot from the fleet pest really sucks. How is this Ship supposed to tank now ?
It's supposed to use armor tank.
Right. You're going to take the BS with the lowest DPS output and remove its weapon upgrades. Good luck with that.
Quote: My normal Tempest eats Ravens to breakfast easily from time to time with an armor tank and dual heavy neuts.
Not without a huge SP disparity it doesn't. Ganking month-old players in their first level 4 mission doesn't count.
Quote: EDIT: Now we just need the Projectile buff and i think an AC Fleet Tempest will be niiiiiice.
Perhaps, but until then plain vanilla tier 1 battleships from the other factions will be mopping the floor with the fleet tempest.
1. Well don't whine to early, it's still some time until Dominion expansion will be out. And before that time, we might be lucky and have the Projectile boost in before the expansion is out. Yeah lets just hope they will fix them before that lol.
2. I have seriously ****d a Raven pilot with 55+ mill SP in total and 10+ mill SP in missiles where he have maxed most of his Torpedo skills in my normal t2 fitted close range Tempest. He didn't even take my armor longer down than 80%. And no, he's not a mission runner or a carebear.
And no, those who says solo or small gangs are dead are really really wrong, so the Tempest is still good there.
Raven's and Amarr BS'es are the easiest targets to fight in my Tempest. Those ships dies to easy to my Tempest.
3. Well lets see how the new Tempest Fleet Issue is working before you say anything about that.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Rosur
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:13:00 -
[92]
Navy domi \o/ yay finally. Now just need a Rogue drone domi.
Please resize your sig to less than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:29:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 21:35:07 [Typhoon Fleet Issue, New Setup 1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5 Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot x3
~~~
823/825 cpu 17178/18046 pg
~910dps at <20km (+ 2neuts)
acceptable as non-faction phoon -.- +5% pg or something plz in order to fit a missile rig instead of the pg rig and a med slot for a webber; it's torps after all - putting the gist back into logistics |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:29:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Kayosoni
Quote: Dominix Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) ò Capacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Sensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
sorry but 6 mids and 7 lows for a battleship that uses drones as its main DPS is horribly unbalanced slot configuration compared to other BS. Far too much versatility.
Yeah that Domi is far too good. Compare it to the Tempest, with its 5 mids and 6 lows. The Domi has five bonused drones and an extra lowslot and medslot. It's too good.
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:37:00 -
[95]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
That has considerable negative impact on the passive regen of the Navy Raven (mainly PVE/mission implications). We are looking at going from 2500s to 3390s (+890s or roughly +35%).
Was it an oversight or was it deliberate, that it was not excluded from this nerf?
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Cornette
Gallente Black Screen of Death Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:38:00 -
[96]
I'm happy over the new navy dominix, it will be awesome to shieldtank it \0/
Hovewer I'm not happy that you are first giving with one hand the fleet tempest another gun and then with another hand takes away a mid. That ship still need fixing and just another gunslot won't do that.
So when the new expansion comes, who at CCP can I petition to get my worthless hangar trofee, the fleet tempest, switched to a navy dominix instead?
Then I would have one new functional sweet-looking ship to play with.
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MalVortex
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:41:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Caroline Nikon
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.
In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.
You realize how OMFG overpowered a 7.5% ROF geddon would be? Unless of course ALL ships got their 5% bonuses changed into 7.5% ones... (look for the tasty tempest that has 2 of thsoe to change :P )
You'll note I said somewhere between 6% and 7.5%. Following stats are with 7 pulse lasers, 2 heatsinks, AN-MF ammunition, no drones, all level 5 skills: No damage bonus: 570dps 5% ROF: 759.81dps 6% ROF: 814.3dps 7.5% ROF: 912dps
5x Ogre IIs add 315dps to these figures.
Worst case, you would be talking about 1,227dps. Pretty impressive for only two heatsinks and the buffer it would have. Arguably overpowered. At 6% ROF, your down to 1,129, which is right in there with current 3HS geddon variations. Given the obscene cost these ships will carry from FW-LP, I don't see that as any problem.
Likewise, I see no compelling reason for the Navy Apoc to keep its 7.5% optimal bonus. For the role it serves, that bonus is simply mediocre. Buff it or change it.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:43:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Caroline Nikon
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.
In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.
You realize how OMFG overpowered a 7.5% ROF geddon would be? Unless of course ALL ships got their 5% bonuses changed into 7.5% ones... (look for the tasty tempest that has 2 of thsoe to change :P )
that would make sweet torps! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:51:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
That has considerable negative impact on the passive regen of the Navy Raven (mainly PVE/mission implications). We are looking at going from 2500s to 3390s (+890s or roughly +35%).
Was it an oversight or was it deliberate, that it was not excluded from this nerf?
rumor is passive tanking in general is getting nerfed. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 21:53:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
That has considerable negative impact on the passive regen of the Navy Raven (mainly PVE/mission implications). We are looking at going from 2500s to 3390s (+890s or roughly +35%).
Was it an oversight or was it deliberate, that it was not excluded from this nerf?
Deliberate, to stop idiots passive tanking battleships. They still will, though. Would probably just be better to just delete SPRs and purger rigs from the game though.
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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:54:00 -
[101]
So I guess this means the vanilla Tempest is getting nothing.
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BABARR
PARABELUM-Project
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:57:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
That has considerable negative impact on the passive regen of the Navy Raven (mainly PVE/mission implications). We are looking at going from 2500s to 3390s (+890s or roughly +35%).
Was it an oversight or was it deliberate, that it was not excluded from this nerf?
Deliberate, to stop idiots passive tanking battleships. They still will, though. Would probably just be better to just delete SPRs and purger rigs from the game though.
Or make the active tank more efficient. ...
"Si vis pacem, parabellum" |
Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:58:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 04/09/2009 21:58:38 Give the pest the medium slot back please, it needs that mid more than the low. You should change the regular pest too while you're at it. It's simply inferior to the navy domi/geddon, in many ways. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Comodore John
Gallente QunSegh
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Posted - 2009.09.04 21:59:00 -
[104]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:20:09 Dominix Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) òCapacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
yes!, now i can get a ship to carry 1 flight of t2 heavy and t2 sentry drones along with a 6th highslot!
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:03:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: fuxinos Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.
Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.
Your just taking away their flexibility...
you're dumb. Compare the navy scorp grid with the widow's grid.
Read again fool, I said "dont give Caldari this bad powergrid".... that was related to all Caldari ships and I was just comparring Scorp with Typhoon here as an example how much they lack in PG...
So, who is dumb now?
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Necile
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:11:00 -
[106]
Slicer : 2 turret +5*25% = 4.5 turrets effective +range bonus Hookbill : 3 launchers +5*20% = 6 launchers effective +range bonus Comet : 2 turrets +5*20% = 4 turrets effective +tracking +3 lights drones Firetail : 2 turrets +5*20% = 4 turrets +1 launcher +tracking
Look like a little unbalanced. In short, we have : Slicer : 4.5 "weapons" Hookbill : 6 "weapons" Comet : 7 "weapons" Firetail : 5 "weapons"
I think Slicer could use a 30% dammage bonus and Firetail a 25% dammage bonus. This will give us : Slicer : 5 "weapons" Hookbill : 6 "weapons" Comet : 7 "weapons" Firetail : 5.5 "weapons"
I even think Comet could have only 10m3 BW
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:11:00 -
[107]
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
BWAHAHHAHAHHAHHA. You dont realise how awesome 4mid geddon is, do you? Its actually almost perfect amarr SOLO BOAT. Guns + hvy neut + full mid setup (tackle, mwd, injector) + possibility to put decent passive tank INCLUDING 1x LAR. Drone bay lets you bring 5x heavies for damage or even 5x med ECM for GTFO action. Its like dream come true for me.
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NUKUNNI TRADING
Amarr Grand.Theft.Auto
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:18:00 -
[108]
Edited by: NUKUNNI TRADING on 04/09/2009 22:18:07
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
BWAHAHHAHAHHAHHA. You dont realise how awesome 4mid geddon is, do you? Its actually almost perfect amarr SOLO BOAT. Guns + hvy neut + full mid setup (tackle, mwd, injector) + possibility to put decent passive tank INCLUDING 1x LAR. Drone bay lets you bring 5x heavies for damage or even 5x med ECM for GTFO action. Its like dream come true for me.
CC
blah blah blah - [email protected] - Cortes 1 pixel too many? one lousy pixel? |
MalVortex
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 22:33:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
BWAHAHHAHAHHAHHA. You dont realise how awesome 4mid geddon is, do you? Its actually almost perfect amarr SOLO BOAT. Guns + hvy neut + full mid setup (tackle, mwd, injector) + possibility to put decent passive tank INCLUDING 1x LAR. Drone bay lets you bring 5x heavies for damage or even 5x med ECM for GTFO action. Its like dream come true for me.
The same argument exists for the Abaddon. Except its insurable, and will cost like 1/8 or less for the hull. Hell, you can solo right now just fine in a Geddon if you so desired. CPU gets tight with a heavy neut, but its quite possible. Injector/point/web, sod the MWD in lowsec. If you go soloing in 0.0 in faction battleships, props to you, but it wont last long. Either way, the ship does nothing new that isn't doable right now, and Amarrian ships will never be solo powerhouses like Gallente can due to the nature of pulse laser tracking.
If you have the isk to drop on a solo Navy Geddon (FW Lp will drive their price point through the roof), you probably have the isk for a Nightmare, which is an even more powerful ship for the job you just described. Better tank, better fittings, two neuts, great tracking, great damage. Grab crystals and blue pill and go fraps people throwing themselves onto you.
Its not that I don't like the ship, but its going to be pretty damn expensive for basically copying what an Abaddon already does.
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:34:00 -
[110]
still need the faction pirate ships boosted
but awsome job carnt wait to see the new domi ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :)
i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise |
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:35:00 -
[111]
[Tempest Fleet Issue, New Setup 3] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II Conjunctive Ladar ECCM Scanning Array I Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x3 Heavy Maintenance Bot x1
~~~
637/721.25 cpu 22264.5/23443.75 pg
~560 whooping damage @ 36+44km - no i dont use emp ammo in bs fleet fights, especially not with that clip size -.-
---------------------
[Tempest lol Issue, New Setup 1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Target Painter II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Bouncer II x3
~840 dps @ 3+12km + 1 neut 633/721.25 cpu 21304.47/21312.5 pg
yes i used hail. loses ~115 if switched to rep fleet fusion or ~150dps when using barrage
have a nice day - putting the gist back into logistics |
Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:37:00 -
[112]
Navy Phoon should have 6 launchers and 6 turrets. Hell the standard one should too. Only then would it actually fit it's description as being versatile.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Icarus Prime
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:37:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider ... Originally by: Bomberlocks Republic Fleet Tempest and Typhoon: I just came!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feel free to take a closer look -.-
I did, and you're right. WTF? CCP why drop a mid on the Pest? The Fleet Typhoon does look like a ver nice ship, BUT...
CCP BOOST THE GODDAMN PROJECTILES ALREADY!
Excuse my language, but honestly, doesn't a thread with over 1000 posts in it sort make you wake up? Just a little bit? We know you think Minnie is "fine as it is", but the thing is, we don't. We would be happy with damage at least on a par with the other races. At the moment it isn't even close.
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DerArt1st
DEFCON. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:42:00 -
[114]
Edited by: DerArt1st on 04/09/2009 22:42:46
The minmatar changes are a joke, right? The normal Typhoon should get 6/6 slots and that seventh Gun on the Tempest FI is not even enough for the normal Tempest to make it unsucky.
I am not satisfied at all with the changes, oh and btw. : Fix Minmatar!
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:42:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Roemy Schneider ... Originally by: Bomberlocks Republic Fleet Tempest and Typhoon: I just came!!!!!!!!!!!!!
feel free to take a closer look -.-
I did, and you're right. WTF? CCP why drop a mid on the Pest?.
Ehm, if you looks the PVP way and not the mission / carebear way and close range setup on the new Fleet tempest, then no, it wont sucks.
And top of that if the projectiles gets boosted like i believe will come soonÖ. Then i think the Fleet Tempest will be one hell of a nice ship.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Meldorn Vaash
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 22:46:00 -
[116]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:38:17 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:34:22 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:17:15 I. Navy Frigates:
Due to their split weapon layout and lack of dedicated role, navy frigates usefulness remains quite limited. We plan to turn them into an hybrid of interceptors and Assault frigate classes, combining points of both, being less specialized than the Tech2 hulls, thus more versatile but less resilient.
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers òFittings: 140 CPU, 39 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Rifter) òCapacitor: 250 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.3 cap/s) òSpeed: 410m/s, 3.2 agility òSensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
Why not just go with 3 turret slots and forget the launchers? Or.... Add a dmg bonus (20% per level) to explosive rockets/missiles if you're going to keep the split weapons setup. "A poorly fitted ship is just wreckage waiting to be salvaged" |
Bomberlocks
Minmatar Icarus Prime
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 22:47:00 -
[117]
Originally by: NightmareX .... And top of that if the projectiles gets boosted like i believe will come soonÖ. Then i think the Fleet Tempest will be one hell of a nice ship.
I apologise for my outburst above, but I honestly hope you're right. It is really, honestly about time that Minnies got a buff instead of being nerfed at every turn.
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:51:00 -
[118]
how good some of these changes are some will fail so much
fleet pest id rather have it as a shield tanker than armor tanking i mean seriously do we want a miniture version of the allready failed macherial? ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :)
i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise |
Farelle
Gallente Deus Imperiosus Acies
|
Posted - 2009.09.04 22:54:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Farelle on 04/09/2009 22:54:53 when are we unsuckifying all none sanshas pirate faction ships? Given that the new navy hulls will make them obsolete?
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:57:00 -
[120]
So hold on... in the intro you said that split weapons were bad - But the Firetail still gets guns and missiles.
And you wanted to make them like hybrid Intys / AF's - Except you've dropped the speed bonus on the Firetail
please don't kill teh speed bonus onf the Firetail.
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Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.09.04 22:58:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Sith LordX Teir 3's need some love too.
They will be the next stage of t2 BS
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:03:00 -
[122]
Originally by: NUKUNNI TRADING Edited by: NUKUNNI TRADING on 04/09/2009 22:18:07
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
BWAHAHHAHAHHAHHA. You dont realise how awesome 4mid geddon is, do you? Its actually almost perfect amarr SOLO BOAT. Guns + hvy neut + full mid setup (tackle, mwd, injector) + possibility to put decent passive tank INCLUDING 1x LAR. Drone bay lets you bring 5x heavies for damage or even 5x med ECM for GTFO action. Its like dream come true for me.
CC
Its basicly a Mega without her main weakness, blasters.
The Domi looks a bit to good and the Fleet Pest get the short end of the stick. You could simply increase the damage bonuses a bit to get her a bit extra punch, since unlike the Raven it still does crap damage while losing a utility highslot and a medslot for it what reduces the only thing a Tempest got, flexibility...
Also any chance you take a 2. look at the tier 1 faction cruisers? They where halveway ok for nano but now they are actualy worse than T1 ships and I only seen a single one of them in PVP since they got introduced, and It was basicly a new player that wanted a shiny ship and jumped into the wrong system. They basicly lack any kind of real roles or even a basic concept behind them, like the Navy Exequeror, that could be awsome Cruiser sized Ranis but simply lacks the 50m¦ Dronebay, huge structure buffer and 4. med + powergrid to fit at least a large shield buffer. Simply a concept that where never finished and never realy worked as the extra speed was a huge sale magnet because of the lack of survieability to make it happen.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:03:00 -
[123]
Originally by: MalVortex
The same argument exists for the Abaddon. Except its insurable, and will cost like 1/8 or less for the hull. Hell, you can solo right now just fine in a Geddon if you so desired. CPU gets tight with a heavy neut, but its quite possible. Injector/point/web, sod the MWD in lowsec. If you go soloing in 0.0 in faction battleships, props to you, but it wont last long. Either way, the ship does nothing new that isn't doable right now, and Amarrian ships will never be solo powerhouses like Gallente can due to the nature of pulse laser tracking.
CPU is not an issue. I already mount heavy neut + mwd + injector on normal geddon. +70 cpu and +1mid? You will use 30 on web, 40 is spare leftover that will enable not only to use large neut but also to change some ANPs into EANMs or put LAR. MWD is "mandatory" even in lowsec, well at least for me. As for soloing with baddon/geddon - baddon lacks anti-cruiser mods. Sure you can neut/web if you really want to (tho losing DPS for neut is stupid, wheras AN geddon will keep maxdps with it) - but still your DPS if enemy increases transveral is just pityful. 5x mediums cant be even compared to 5x heavies.
Also remember it has more armor than abaddon and still has +1 lowslot over it so abaddons 25% resist bonus can be somewhat "negated" with more resist mods. Quite comparable ships.
Quote:
If you have the isk to drop on a solo Navy Geddon (FW Lp will drive their price point through the roof), you probably have the isk for a Nightmare, which is an even more powerful ship for the job you just described. Better tank, better fittings, two neuts, great tracking, great damage. Grab crystals and blue pill and go fraps people throwing themselves onto you.
I know how nightmare works. And its main advantage is just shieldtank - can be boosted via crystals, wheras armor tank gets only passive boost. Still i hope CCP will redo FW LP store/LP gain so prices will come down. But thats another issue.
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Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:06:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 04/09/2009 21:01:22 Overall these changes look like a step in the right direction, pending fitting tests on the actual server to see if you've given them a proper amount of grid/CPU, with two exceptions:
1) The Navy Hookbill: it is a railboat, and it should continue to be a railboat. Please remember that Caldari use more than just missiles, and deserve some attention paid to their other weapon systems. Also, since frigate missiles are currently laughably bad, this is not a good change.
Instead, give it 25% hybrid turret damage, 10% hybrid optimal range, and 5% shield resists, with enough grid to fit a full rack of 150mm rails, a MWD, cap booster, and medium shield extender without any grid mods (to make it different from the Harpy, which can not fit as good a mid-range setup). Keeping both extra high slots with enough grid/CPU to fit T2 standard launchers would be even more awesome.
2) The Navy Scorpion: honestly, this is just terrible, and arguably even worse than a standard Raven. Sure, it's got a ton of EHP, a resist bonus, and 8 slots for tank, but in PvP dps is FAR more important than tank, and the missing launcher compared to the standard Raven is a huge drawback, while the missing range bonus takes away one of the Raven's major advantages. Add in the huge price thanks to only being available with FW LPs, and you have a ship that will see little use.
I honestly don't know what to do with this one without just making a better torp Raven. Perhaps dust off that old ECM/gank Scorpion you had when you were nerfing ECM ships? 6 launchers, ROF bonus, 30% ECM strength per level would be a fun ship to fly, if a bit expensive considering its chances of being immediately primaried.
While I absolutely agree with Hookbill and rails, I think the Scorpion could fill a role. It has more CPU then CNR, while having 2 less launcher slots. Combined with the resistance bonus this could result in a fairly good shield transfer battleship. Plenty of midlsots for injector, painter, mwd and tank. But goddamn it, it still has no left wing !
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:16:00 -
[125]
Originally by: MalVortex
Likewise, I see no compelling reason for the Navy Apoc to keep its 7.5% optimal bonus. For the role it serves, that bonus is simply mediocre. Buff it or change it.
HELL NO!!!! The range bonus is AWESOME! Its the main reason why The navy apoc is one of the best if not the best mission runner ship! I improved my mission income per hour by 17% from switching from abaddon to navy apoc!
Do not touch the PERFECT APOCALYPSE!
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Meldorn Vaash
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:35:00 -
[126]
Another Thought... Since you're "fixing" things... Is there some reason why the Republic Fleet Firetail is green and not the more traditional Minmatar rust red? "A poorly fitted ship is just wreckage waiting to be salvaged" |
Azumo
Starbridge Brotherhood of Starbridge
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:37:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Azumo on 04/09/2009 23:39:56 You're killing the original Fleet Pest! It is so damn good with 6 medslots! Loved it and used a lot in the past (before switching to machariel). Today I found last of my good'old fleetpests deep in lowsec and blown ppl on it... It still rocks, mostly due to 6 meds, and what you guys are going to implement makes it absolutely different ship!
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:40:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 04/09/2009 23:41:01 I really hope CCP pay attention, READ the input from this thread and notice that players are getting FED UP with their view on minmatar balance approach. Not a single race got massively negative feedback as minmatar ones? Care to guess why? Basically because the balance reasoning used upon minmatar ships has been doing NONSENSE at all! The 1st naglfar boost had to be MASSIVELY bashed by the players to CCP notice how off the spot they were.
Do not repeat same mistake. Pay attention on the hundreds of players that point you very well why things are not OK.
I repeat.. your balancing ideas are OUT OF TRACK AND REALITY for minmatar for long time already.
As some said.. the fleet tempest has a SMALL CHANCE of become a good Ship. But ONLY, and ONLY if CCP makes a HELL of a good job rebalancing projectiles! And NO! 5% falloff is not a good job! Little hint.. it a FACTION ship with 7 turrets and 2 damage bonuses end up having LESS damage than a Megatron using only 6 turrets.... THEN ITS WRONG! And NO ONE IN UNIVERSE can make reasoning on that!
The typhoon approach on this new ship is just a joke ! The ship is not pathetic only because the typhoon hull itself being good and because of the swap on HP. The 5/5 trick is NOWHERE, not even on drug induced dreams equivalent to 1 extra slot! Give it a 6/6 AND better fittings OR do like the others and give it an extra slot!
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:46:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Azumo Edited by: Azumo on 04/09/2009 23:39:56 You're killing the original Fleet Pest! It is so damn good with 6 medslots! Loved it and used a lot in the past (before switching to machariel). Today I found last of my good'old fleetpests deep in lowsec and blown ppl on it... It still rocks, mostly due to 6 meds, and what you guys are going to implement makes it absolutely different ship!
I'm going to have to agree with this. 7 guns is good, but removing a mid slot is a big nerf. Keep the slot layout the same, just add another gun slot and re-balance grid/CPU appropriately. ==========
Merin is banned (yet again). Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:52:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 04/09/2009 23:55:24
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 2 med and 5 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Punisher)
BBBAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAA *cries* :~( 3 laz0rs look cooler than just two of them! *sniffs* it was like a "I got 3 laz0rs AND headlights, b****!" in the face of a Crusader pilot!
And yes, it's a Executioner hull, not a Punisher
Proof (from the old classic client):
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:54:00 -
[131]
When are tier 3 BS¦s getting some love?
Why can¦t i have a 8/4/8 slot Navy Abaddon in black?
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.04 23:55:00 -
[132]
Ha ha, they're nerfing the fleet pest.
-1 mid -1 utility high for +1 gun Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.09.05 00:00:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Linas IV on 05/09/2009 00:01:31 Please read this:
Concerning the Tempest Fleet Issue:
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium ... Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think?
On a Tempest with 1xGyrostab and 800mm ACs the additional Turret gives exactly 21 DPS more than the Siege Launcher you could fit there normaly, and thats calculated with all skills LV5. (without the gyro its laughable 5 dps!)
This Combined with not enough grid to fit a full rack of 1400s leads to only one conclusion:
No, that is not worth loosing an additional slot!
Therfore, either increase the PG a lot, rethink large ACs, or leave the 6th Medslot.
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Faith d'Amarr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.05 00:28:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Faith d''Amarr on 05/09/2009 00:29:21 As yet another lover of the Dominix for mission purposes, I cannot help but think:
Ah, finally a solution to the "droneboat advancement stops at a T1 tier 1 battleship".
Now it'll be "droneboat advancement stops at the navy version of a T1 tier 1 battleship.....that can only be bought through the factional warfare loyalty store, not through the corporation loyalty stores that sells T1 tier 2 navy battleships. Up yours, mission runners - no Navy Dominix for you unless you buy one on contract for money; God forbid that we actually sell you useful navy ships for missioning to buy with the currency of loyalty points gained through missions. We made that mistake with the Raven Naval Issue, and we sure don't want to repeat it".
Now, I doubt that that has been any part of the reasoning - the reasoning probably running more along the lines of "let's try to make FW more interesting with unique rewards", but it does seem a rather silly way of doing so.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.09.05 00:30:00 -
[135]
I gotta say I'm lit and actually suprised by CCP.
kudos! *clap* I can fit EANMs to a Navy Mega now lol xD
Now let's talk briefly about the new Dominix.
Extra mid good, no extra drone damage bad. -- THIS IS WHAT PLAYERS REALLY WANT. We want to lift the friggin drone damage cap.
Let's kill the extra mid in favor of a 25% damage, hitpoints per level bonus \o/
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:10:00 -
[136]
Originally by: fuxinos
Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: fuxinos Just compare the PG of the Scorp (which looks like an shield version of the phoon) with the Phoon.
Dont be so stupid and give Caldari this bad powergrid over and over.
Your just taking away their flexibility...
you're dumb. Compare the navy scorp grid with the widow's grid.
Read again fool, I said "dont give Caldari this bad powergrid".... that was related to all Caldari ships and I was just comparring Scorp with Typhoon here as an example how much they lack in PG...
So, who is dumb now?
how does it lack PG? it seems to me like it has plenty. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:10:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I gotta say I'm lit and actually suprised by CCP.
kudos! *clap* I can fit EANMs to a Navy Mega now lol xD
Now let's talk briefly about the new Dominix.
Extra mid good, no extra drone damage bad. -- THIS IS WHAT PLAYERS REALLY WANT. We want to lift the friggin drone damage cap.
Let's kill the extra mid in favor of a 25% damage, hitpoints per level bonus \o/
LOL you insane? You want 75% extra drone damage? Look to what tempest got.. 1 less mid 1 less high .. 13% more dps (When you take drone dps into consideration.
Come back to reality.... Anything above 15% drone damage per level would be OMFG overpowered.
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Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:21:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
LOL you insane? You want 75% extra drone damage? Look to what tempest got.. 1 less mid 1 less high .. 13% more dps (When you take drone dps into consideration.
Come back to reality.... Anything above 15% drone damage per level would be OMFG overpowered.
fail poaster
drone solo damage is crap when u compare it to the other damage types that can put mods on to increase damage
a better drone bonus would be really nice for navy domi <3 i would personally like to see a reduction in turrets and more focus on the drones
altho CCP didnt do a aweful job, the extra mid for a drone nav link or omni directional tracking unit is very nice
i could live with new domi, altho i would be happier if they gave it a little more drone focus at the expense of its guns
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:25:00 -
[139]
Thanks for your efforts at making new ships. However, as others have pointed out, it seems that Minmatar once again comes up short.
Tempest- I never liked this hull (as I don't like the Apoc either) but many other folks do and they rightly point out that a seventh gun slot does not make up for losing a mid. Figure it out.
Typhoon- This hull I love. I disagree with those wanting 6/6 hardpoints. However, the speed buff is nothing compared to an extra low or mid. Keep the agility buff, drop the speed buff. Also, you brought the geddon 25m3 closer to the typhoon in dronebay size. While I also like the geddon, this strikes me as odd.
And, finally, fix projectiles. I think they need just a little more rof and clip size might help the dps situation.
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Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:25:00 -
[140]
lol, Minmatar are pre nerfed - as usual. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:37:00 -
[141]
so basicly u have given the tempest the 7th turret slot its needed for ages but removed an entire slot for it, great phoon, u have changed into what ppl have asked for since it was realased, but u now give it to us and call it a fleet issue(wow)
and what the hell does the domi need another mid for????????????
couldnt u at least have been decent enough to have given the normal tempest a boost before u did something like this??????
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RedSplat
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:42:00 -
[142]
Now i KNOW CCP hate Minmatar,
Thanks again for subpar BS.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:52:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Poba
Originally by: Seishi Maru
LOL you insane? You want 75% extra drone damage? Look to what tempest got.. 1 less mid 1 less high .. 13% more dps (When you take drone dps into consideration.
Come back to reality.... Anything above 15% drone damage per level would be OMFG overpowered.
fail poaster
drone solo damage is crap when u compare it to the other damage types that can put mods on to increase damage
a better drone bonus would be really nice for navy domi <3 i would personally like to see a reduction in turrets and more focus on the drones
altho CCP didnt do a aweful job, the extra mid for a drone nav link or omni directional tracking unit is very nice
i could live with new domi, altho i would be happier if they gave it a little more drone focus at the expense of its guns
fail poster? Andf you fail player then.
The domnix he proposed coudl deal 870 DPS from DRONES ONLY!
Now imagine a ship that can field 870 dps with 6 high slots dedicated to NOS or neuts?
Now imagine this same ship when you fit guns on it as a normal ship. And you can deal damage in excess of 1600 dps?
That while having more mods and lows than any of oposition?
Lol if that is not overpoered.. then please I want my tempest to have base speed of 480 ms and align speed of 3 secconds...
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.05 01:52:00 -
[144]
Originally by: NightmareX
Quote: My normal Tempest eats Ravens to breakfast easily from time to time with an armor tank and dual heavy neuts.
want a chance to prove that?
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Simon Monkoto
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:03:00 -
[145]
Hmmm I like most of the changes, although some of the changes to Minmatar make me go
While you're at it though how about some changes to pirate faction ships? The faction cruisers could definitely use some love most notably the Ashimmu, Cynabal and the Vigilant each to varying degrees.
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Conar Balcos
Minmatar Elite Aeronautic Developer Syndicate Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:03:00 -
[146]
Its not like the pest is the weekest bs anyway, and now you take a med slot from it while the rest of the faction bs gets buffed ?
As a minmatar pilot i can tell you it does not look like a improvment at all. And here we go |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:06:00 -
[147]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
I really don't see anything this ship can do that another caldari ship can do better.
plain t1 scorp at least has ewar. t1 raven has more damage, and longer range. and then the cnr one of the top pve ships out there. rokh at least has 8 turret slots with optimal and resist bonus, being one of the better fleet snipers.
okay wait, it could probably get a super high eft ehp number! yep real useful
scorp navy should have 6 launcher slots and a 150m3 drone bay with 125 Bandwidth, with the current bonuses. or maybe swap the resist bonus for a target painter bonus so its tank isn't too good for its new awesome fire power.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:12:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: MalVortex
Likewise, I see no compelling reason for the Navy Apoc to keep its 7.5% optimal bonus. For the role it serves, that bonus is simply mediocre. Buff it or change it.
HELL NO!!!! The range bonus is AWESOME! Its the main reason why The navy apoc is one of the best if not the best mission runner ship! I improved my mission income per hour by 17% from switching from abaddon to navy apoc!
Do not touch the PERFECT APOCALYPSE!
I strongly STRONGLY disagree. the range bonus on the navy poc is almost worthless. the only way you can get me to touch one is to give it to me for free, and then I am just going to turn around and sell it for isk. I'll take the abaddon over the navy apoc any day. and the nightmare/paladin over the abaddon
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Vylth
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:21:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Faith d'Amarr
As yet another lover of the Dominix for mission purposes, I cannot help but think:
Ah, finally a solution to the "droneboat advancement stops at a T1 tier 1 battleship".
Now it'll be "droneboat advancement stops at the navy version of a T1 tier 1 battleship.....that can only be bought through the factional warfare loyalty store, not through the corporation loyalty stores that sells T1 tier 2 navy battleships. Up yours, mission runners - no Navy Dominix for you unless you buy one on contract for money; God forbid that we actually sell you useful navy ships for missioning to buy with the currency of loyalty points gained through missions. We made that mistake with the Raven Naval Issue, and we sure don't want to repeat it".
Now, I doubt that that has been any part of the reasoning - the reasoning probably running more along the lines of "let's try to make FW more interesting with unique rewards", but it does seem a rather silly way of doing so.
And not only will it be a pain in the butt to get, it does the same DPS as a 50m vanilla domi! |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 02:36:00 -
[150]
Originally by: NightmareX
2. I have seriously ****d a Raven pilot with 55+ mill SP in total and 10+ mill SP in missiles where he have maxed most of his Torpedo skills in my normal t2 fitted close range Tempest. He didn't even take my armor longer down than 80%. And no, he's not a mission runner or a carebear.
And no, those who says solo or small gangs are dead are really really wrong, so the Tempest is still good there.
Raven's and Amarr BS'es are the easiest targets to fight in my Tempest. Those ships dies to easy to my Tempest.
I'm a damn near maxed raven pilot and would be happy to give it a go on the test server, could even bring down my cnr and give that a go too assuming the changes are up on the test server now.
and zomg want navy geddon!
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Xano Mora
Monks of War Banzai Boyz
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Posted - 2009.09.05 03:25:00 -
[151]
mmm... Navy Geddon!! it's a greatest dream of all amarr - geddon wit 4 meds :)) Thx!!!
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foobarx
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Posted - 2009.09.05 04:28:00 -
[152]
Quote: 2. I have seriously ****d a Raven pilot with 55+ mill SP in total and 10+ mill SP in missiles where he have maxed most of his Torpedo skills in my normal t2 fitted close range Tempest. He didn't even take my armor longer down than 80%Laughing. And no, he's not a mission runner or a carebear.
Was he AFK? I just don't see how this is possible. He should have a better tank and more DPS. And that's if he's not moving - moving it gets much worse for the Tempest.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 05:42:00 -
[153]
Thanks for the blog, this one is pretty awesome. Many of those faction ships look great.
However, the amarr navy slicer seems to get really good bonuses compared to the other frigates...although the gallente one, with the drones, seems to come out way ahead in terms of DPS.
Caldari and minmatar ones both look rather poor.
Navy typhoon and armageddon are excellent. Armageddon may be too good - why does he get an extra slot over the phoon and scorp? Change from shield to armor for phoon will make many people happy.
The navy domi looks hilariously overpowered. The domi is already hands down the best T1 BS in the game and possibly the best BS overall. Navy one is going to be awesome. Certainly beats out the faction scorp.
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Hrodgar Ortal
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Posted - 2009.09.05 05:53:00 -
[154]
No point in thinking about a fleet pest then. Removing a mid removes one of the few things it had, choice, without adding anything since you wont give it enough PG to fit the arties (which also suck but well it is what we have).
A fleet pest should have the same overall potential as the other fleet tier2 bs. Now it doesn't have that now, but nerfing it while boosting the others doesn't seem the right way to bring them up to the same level.
I would really like to know what the design philosophy is behind why minmatar shouldn't have adequate BS class ships.
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Schmell
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Posted - 2009.09.05 06:26:00 -
[155]
Quote: * Standard Typhoon armor and shield values have been swapped as well
Would be nice to do same to standart tempest and phoon as well.
Also, about navyphoon: DO WANT!
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Smegnet Incorporated Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.09.05 06:28:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 05/09/2009 06:29:54 Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 05/09/2009 06:28:36
Originally by: Ulstan Thanks for the blog, this one is pretty awesome. Many of those faction ships look great.
However, the amarr navy slicer seems to get really good bonuses compared to the other frigates...although the gallente one, with the drones, seems to come out way ahead in terms of DPS.
Caldari and minmatar ones both look rather poor.
Navy typhoon and armageddon are excellent. Armageddon may be too good - why does he get an extra slot over the phoon and scorp? Change from shield to armor for phoon will make many people happy.
The navy domi looks hilariously overpowered. The domi is already hands down the best T1 BS in the game and possibly the best BS overall. Navy one is going to be awesome. Certainly beats out the faction scorp.
Amarry Navy Slicer only has two guns compared to the rest with 3. So it needs bonuses to keep up.
*EDIT* I take that back, that is a good question, but if I had to guess, its because the Slicer lacks something compared to the rest.
*DOUBLE EDIT DUE TO FAIL* Yeah, its because they have 2 mids, not much of a tackler with those kind of mids. But better than the Retribution's mids.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Vanessa Vasquez
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:05:00 -
[157]
One of the most anticipated changes for me. I've spent so many hours in EFT trying to make something useful out of a daredevil, Vigilant or any other of the faction/pirate frigs/cruisers. But seriously:
II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
I know, players allways love buffs. But this seems totaly unnecessary and unbalanced. I'm not saying i wouldn't love my Navytron with this buff, but how would you compare it to the Hyperion, the standard Mega, Vindicator or the "Hello, i exist only theoretical Federate Tron" ?
With the + on CPU and PG, you can fit all the juicy gunZ and don't need to bother with platings anymore. Can we remove platings completely now? ;)
The + dronebay gives a major buff to versatility! You can now field 5 heavies and still have light drones for small stuff. cool! Why would anyone bother with the 8 Gun/75m¦/active rep bonused Tier 3 Hyperion? No one is flying it yet anyways cause of the rep bonus. And what about the standard mega with only 125m¦ dronebay?
With the buff on speed and agility, Vindicator needs a review too, doesn't it?
Just an idea, but why don't you leave the Navy Tier2 BS like they are and make the state/federate stuff availiable via FW unique missions? Pretty much like cosmos where you can only do a mission once. "Final" mission reward would be a blueprint, so you could still make sure they don't get farmed to hell.
III. Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Nice idea, love it. Just think they are to cheap compared to the 600.000 LP + base hull for the Tier 2 Navies.
Quote:
[21:02:14] McKinlay > it's always nice to be out-failed :P. there are no winners or losers just people that fail harder
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:10:00 -
[158]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
The geddon, typhoon and dominix all seem to be just improved versions of the existing ship with little extra bonuses, which is very nice. But I'm not sure what is going on here with the navy scorp, you've changed its role completely. It gets a shield resistance bonus instead of ECM so it instead focuses on a massive 8-slotable shield tank. If I had to guess, I'd say they're all being focused on short range combat, which could be interesting. But I'm not sure how much damage this scorp will be able to do with only 5 launchers and a few turrets without bonuses. They'd probably be great for neuts but I doubt you can fit heavy neuts and torps with that little powergrid.
Will be interesting to test them out and see what they can do.
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Eagle White
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:11:00 -
[159]
Normal domi, overpowered. navy domi? WAYYYY too overpowered. because its a drone ship it should have less low and less high slots, its just rediculous how good the ships are. above average DPS and a tank that even when remote repping, does not need to be remote reped itself.
scorp, looks fine, happy with it
hookbill, give it back its guns please :( . even saying this tho my primary weapons are missles.
geddon, also happy.
the navy tempest? CCP, really? what have you been smoking and where can i find some, this really needs to be fixed.
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Lijhal
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:16:00 -
[160]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
Could you please give the Scorp and SNI 125 drone bay and bandwith!! they are the only tier1 bs which dont!
Overwise, looking good ... but the DNI seems to be a bit overpowered
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Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:28:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Happster on 05/09/2009 08:29:03 Nice changes. Except the fleet pest.
I got to admit im wondering what on earth your thinking with.
Lets talk about the good things first. Fleet phoon, i love it. It will be a ship i will fly a lot.
No the negativ part. Fleet Tempest. To be honest i like the old version of fleet pest more. Atleast then you could fit both tank and damage mods.
Now when you have removed 1 mid slot you can not really fit the fleet pest with both tank and gank. Shield tank on it will suck delux now. And if you want to buffer tank it, you can max add 3 gyros, and even then you come short compared to the other plated faction ships.
If you want to aactive armor tank it, you dont really have room for more then 1 gyro.
Would love for someone to cmopare old fleet pest vs this new one. Shield tank old fleet pest and have 3 or 4 gyros plus siege launchers in the two extra slots vs new fleet pest with 1 gyro in low and rest active tank.
Edit: If you have to remove 1 slot why not remove a low slot and keep the 6 mid slots?
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:28:00 -
[162]
based on the faction stabber: ò 7 high, 5 med, 8 low, 7/0 ò Dronebay + Bandwidth increased by 50m¦ ò Speed: +25% max velocity and some agility
based loosely on the naglfar: ò 7 high, 7 med, 6 low, 6/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay increased by 50m¦ *shrug, everybody seems to get it*
based on the cane: ò 8 high, 4 med, 8 low, 6/4 ... or 8-5-7, 6/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay increased by 50m¦
based on a wet dream: ò 8 high, 4 med, 8 low, 7/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay + bandwidth increased by 50m¦ ohwait... that'd be a perfectly acceptable ship like... the geddon.... cant have that
- putting the gist back into logistics |
Aladari Selhura
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:29:00 -
[163]
wOOtn t1 navy battleships, mom mom nom O-heck it, minmatars again got a s****y end of stick Quit using what you are using ( or send me some )and at least decide is it gona be a gunboat, minmatar missile boat , just please please, stop using the split weapon layouts Ratings; Armageddon Navy: cool, been a time about and again. Scorpion Navy: not so cool, what's wrong for scorpion being a RAIL GUN platform, you are putting your own foot in a throat (again) drop launchers and give a sucka'h at least 6 turrets with damage/rof, or 7 with optimal/resistance bonuses Dominix: nicey, finaly a balanced usable pile of **** (personally can't stand gallente design, caldari and minmatar ftw ) Typhoon: lulz, read above, specialy the substance (ab)use 8/4/7 5/5, speed/agility bonuses at least give him a 6/6 option or finally decide WHAT typhoon is actually
That's my 0.01 ISK
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I SoStoned
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:47:00 -
[164]
Rep Typhoon - is what the current typhoon should be slot wise (5/5). Give the faction a 6/6 option and the increased stats plus a solid boost to speed. Make it a cheap mach now that the Mach suxxors.
Firetail (and others) Can we PLEASE get rid of split rack setups that get nothing for half of their highslots!!! Having a couple of utility launchers or turrets is fine when the main damage has a bonus, but these 50/50 splits with only half the highs being bonused is an annoyance.
Slicer/Hookbill/Comet = actually useful, if only barely. They're still not worth the senseless ISK outlay when a T2 frig can do far better for the same ISK.
Nothing for cruisers?
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MalVortex
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.09.05 08:54:00 -
[165]
I'm going to give up on the failings of the navy geddon - too many players are rah-rahing over its announcement for good discussion. That said, I'm not going to give up on the Navy Apocalypse.
To repeat to CCP: The Navy Issue Apocalypse makes no sense for a high-end combat vessel. The T1 Apocalypse is already a great sniping ship - it is cheap to replace, it can be fit in a multitude of ways, and it packs a punch at range. The high cost of faction battleships, however, preclude sniping from ever being a legitimate use. Even worse, the NApoc does nothing better at sniping than the T1 Apoc, save the easier fittings for tachyons. The extra low and armor don't matter - it will either go to warp or die - and it will always be primary.
7.5% optimal range bonus is also insufficient for it to be an advantage on pulse lasers in traditional fights. Before +range modules, the NApoc has 21km multi-frequency, to the standard 15km. The added 6km here will almost never matter, and will never outpace the Armageddon's or Abaddon's damage bonus.
2x Locus IIs and a optimal-scripted tracking computer bring this optimal out to 30km with Multi-frequency - quite impressive range for the shortest range ammo. However, the Armageddon and Abaddon can simply switch to scorch... And still outdamage the NApocs MF lasers at that range. It can only achieve this range to begin with by dramatically curtailing its fitting and tanking abilities in a ship that will in most situations be primary for damage, neuts, and EW.
The original post states that these ships were designed for an era in which they were the creme of the crop. The original apocalypse buff with Emperyan Age (IIRC) was certainly a breath of life into this hull. That said, it is an out of place buff to the NApoc. 7.5%optimal/level is useless for any real engagement.
What about PVE uses? The NApoc with scorch is certainly an acceptable mission runner, with more cap than one can shake a stick at. Even here, it is completley outclassed by the Nightmare, Rattlesnake, and intelligently fit Abaddons. Damage bonuses are important, and the ship fails to do any more damage than its T1 hull can (contrast to the CNR with 17% more DPS than the base Raven).
Taken together, it is clear that the ship needs re-evaluation as to what its roll on the battlefield should be. To that end, I would argue that its bonuses should be changed to the following: 10% Bonus to Large Energy Turret Optimal Range per Level 7.5% Bonus to Large Energy Turret Tracking per level
note: that the redeemer does the same amount of damage (6*1.33=7.98 turrets) with this tracking bonus. We are merely marrying it to the optimal bonus common to Amarr.
The Optimal range bonus is expanded into a full 50% range bonus - enough that it can start to directly compete against the damaged bonus Amarrian hulls. The Cap use bonus is dropped; doing so both highlights the NApoc's great base capacitor, and makes it highly vulnerable to energy neutralization in the same manner as the Abaddon. Instead, the NApoc steals the Redeemer's tracking bonus. Its a unique but not unprecedented bonus, and it allows the ship to provide a unique roll that no other laser ship provides.
Absolute Laser Suppression. Unlike the High-Gank-oriented Armaggedon, Sniping Apocalypse, Gank + Buffer Abaddon, or the High active tank, gank Nightmare, the NAPoc will instead do "good" damage to great range for a pulse-laser oriented ship. Between 50% optimal and 37.% total tracking buffs, it will be a ship to outright fear if at sub-100km. Bringing the fight close will expose its mediocre damage compared to other battleships.
The CNR is amongst the best full-gank battleships or mission runners in existence. The Navy Mega is a solo-pwnmobile, and will be even more so after the expansion. Much like the Navy Tempest, the NApoc needs some <3. Even if my proposed changes are deemed lunacy of the highest order, please re-evaluate the NApoc's bonuses and role.
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Jonnie Concrete
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Posted - 2009.09.05 09:11:00 -
[166]
Idiot question of the day:
is there a way to edit EFT or use another program to play around with the possible new setups?
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 09:21:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 05/09/2009 09:22:53
Originally by: MalVortex ...
Apoc doesnt need to get any better. It good as it is now.
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Caldari Zombidoktor
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Posted - 2009.09.05 09:37:00 -
[168]
tier 3 ships? what's with them? :C
no navy tier 3 based ships...
discrimination
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Markesian
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Posted - 2009.09.05 09:47:00 -
[169]
Very nice ccp, some much needed faction looking overs here.
That said, I'm a little dissapointed you are STILL mucking about in the usual slot/cpu/grid switcharound. Here is a chance to play with some newer systems and you seem terminally afraid to do so.
How about you drop some hp/slots/hardpoints and instead focus on adding rigslots and calibration points?
You could add bonuses to certain rig classes, or decrease calibration point usage on certain classes.
Imagine a navy dominix with less, or no, guns but able to fit 2 or 3 sentry damage rigs, or a republic phoon with only one weapon type fitted, but the rigs to make that system shine.
Just seems a shame that every new "yay" is just an old one in a new suit. Progress please
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.09.05 10:12:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Vestus Regula w00t... more ECM nerf! Isn't the hammer comming down way too often on this one?
After the way speed got nerfed, you falcon***s have no room to whine about the way you're being treated.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2009.09.05 10:35:00 -
[171]
Fleet Pest = armor tanking ship with only 6 low slots and no tanking bonus, fairly fail outside 1vs1. Extra turret and heavy drone do not compensate for losing useful mid, not to mention you have to forfeit remote rep or neut for that extra gun.
Problem with pest is that it¦s not geared towards anything, it¦s too "versatile". Make it minmatar DAMAGE boat with falloff bonus and large ROF bonus and better speed/agility with low EHP, phoon can be close range armor tanking slugger and Mael active shield tanking AC / sniper boat. Role the ships more clearly. You could even do something "radical" with the slots like 8(6)/6/4 if bonuses and stats are good.
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159Pinky
Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.09.05 10:47:00 -
[172]
These new faction BS = silly way to boost FW. Just make them available for all players in LP store ( with offcourse twice the ammount of LP needed ). Anyways, I'm not gonna join FW to get these ships, cause the pvp I do atm is a lot better than what I can get in FW. Fix that first.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.05 10:51:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 05/09/2009 10:51:45
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
What's the point of this ship?
We already have one Caldari Navy battleship that shield-tanks and uses missiles - the CNR. Add the Rattlesnake (which is basically just a Raven with an extra lowslot) and then there are two.
We don't need a third. These are Caldari ships, and Caldari uses rails. Make it a railboat.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 10:52:00 -
[174]
Originally by: MalVortex stuff very wrong
You seem to be really unable to grasp how to use ammar ships properly and that is why you cannot see why apoc has the best bonus of all ships.
Drop that stupid MF and load damm SCORCH! 45 to 61 KM is a LOT of range improvement! Now you add 2 stupid locus rigs.... and you can hit at 78 Km with PULSES!!!
The main reason why ammar are flavor of the month noawadays is because of their superior range! And tons of people have proven this to be MORE important than basically anything else.. Yet you fail to grasp this.
If you think 7.5% optimal per level doe snot give great advantages on real engagements then you have never been on a real engagement!
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:03:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
That has considerable negative impact on the passive regen of the Navy Raven (mainly PVE/mission implications). We are looking at going from 2500s to 3390s (+890s or roughly +35%).
Was it an oversight or was it deliberate, that it was not excluded from this nerf?
Deliberate, to stop idiots passive tanking battleships. They still will, though. Would probably just be better to just delete SPRs and purger rigs from the game though.
Passive tanking the Raven is not the issue. The issue is that those not flying a deadspace tank do make heavy use of the ~30-35% regen peak, as the area around which to run their shieldbooster. Now it you are going to severely downgrade that regen, it means a lot to folks who are unstable t2/meta4 tank.
And that is why I have the question. If you fly deadspace tank, you are already so well tanked that the change is not really an issue.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:04:00 -
[176]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 4 launchers, 5 turrets òFittings: 787 CPU, 12350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay: +50m3 dronebay, +50 bandwidth òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
see what i did ? change the NI Scorp to this one and caldari gets a nice pvp ship which can be toe-on-toe to other BS' out there
thx
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:15:00 -
[177]
I like it, but I have concerns the same as Kayosoni that the Navy Dominix will be too much of a jack of all trades.
Other than that, looks good to me. Can't wait to have a play with the Armageddon Navy Issue.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Oneiros IV
Stella Polaris.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:18:00 -
[178]
Typhoon navy about time, however I'll miss the times being underdog and one of a few pilots flying it
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Jovoich
Kleinrock Heavy Industries The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:19:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Jovoich on 05/09/2009 11:25:43 NOOOOOOOOOO! Dont **** up my Hookbill and Comet, they are amzazing ships I love them, please for the love of god, dont nerft them (which is what I think you're doing) Fitting these ships just requires a bit of thinking, but they can pump out some nice dps and tank pritty well!
I've taken all the other nerfs in good spirit (falcon, nano etc) I but I honestly feel a bit sick inside knowing your going to screw up my Comet and Hookbill!!
Heck, you said these ships are crap, I got a solo Black Ops kill yesterday with the Comet.
I call 'Bull****' CCP. Isn't it great that the alchemy process was introduced & can 'take up the slack?' |
something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:32:00 -
[180]
*golfclap*
some good ideas, some terrible ideas
First Leav my hookbill alone ... dont gimp it by making it a missile ship
Second tier 1 navy ships in light of the complete hilariousness of the domi (6-6-7 lol) the geddon should get more powergrid so you dont need to use a pg mod/rig
the fleet tempest should be made the regular tempest and the new fleet tempest should include the old 6th medslot tyvm (not that the change is that super but ok) and on a side note finaly buff ac's and artys
the navy scorp should get another missile launcher ... just because its not quite a rattlesnake yet
Navy silcer i like navy commet i cant comment navy apoc sure why not navy raven the same navy mega yes!
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:46:00 -
[181]
Originally by: something somethingdark *golfclap*
some good ideas, some terrible ideas
First Leav my hookbill alone ... dont gimp it by making it a missile ship
Second tier 1 navy ships in light of the complete hilariousness of the domi (6-6-7 lol) the geddon should get more powergrid so you dont need to use a pg mod/rig
the fleet tempest should be made the regular tempest and the new fleet tempest should include the old 6th medslot tyvm (not that the change is that super but ok) and on a side note finaly buff ac's and artys
the navy scorp should get another missile launcher ... just because its not quite a rattlesnake yet
Learn to fit or just dont fly geddon at all. Geddon can have guns + hvy neut + mwd + injector + nice buffer WITHOUT grid mods. This one will be even easier to fit thanks to small grid improvement (enables to fit full rack of megapulses instead of 5+2 mega/dhp).
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:54:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: something somethingdark my stuff
Learn to fit or just dont fly geddon at all. Geddon can have guns + hvy neut + mwd + injector + nice buffer WITHOUT grid mods. This one will be even easier to fit thanks to small grid improvement (enables to fit full rack of megapulses instead of 5+2 mega/dhp).
never sayd im actualy having gridproblems or that i think it was underpowered but in light of the proposed navy domi i just thought it would be nice to have a rr or neut mega pulse geddon with mwd and heavy booster.... they get hilarious versatility i get hilarious gank n' tank .. only fair
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:59:00 -
[183]
TBH: domi gets 1 midslot which he doesnt need that much. Geddon gets one important mid. Id say the one overpowered ship in this list is AN arma not the domi.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:22:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 05/09/2009 12:23:42 Make fleet tempest BACK to old slot layout and with 6 guns only!
Give it 70 extra TF of cpu to be able to properly use its mids, and when wanted fly shield tanked.
Give it 100M drone bandwidth...!
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Hachi Ironfist
Gallente Rubbish and Garbage Removal Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:42:00 -
[185]
The +1 on the Domi is a nice addition, not really that useful but it's ok.
As many stated a +% on drone dmg would have been better... and with the new navy domi you won't be able to fit 2x Large Sentry Damage Augmenters only, 1.... give it +50 more calibration points at least.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:48:00 -
[186]
I would like to thank CCP for taking a few minutes and rethinking the bonusses of the Vindicator and the Vigilant, well done to you and keep up the good work.
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ian666
Minmatar Lamb Federation Navy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:51:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider based on the faction stabber: ò 7 high, 5 med, 8 low, 7/0 ò Dronebay + Bandwidth increased by 50m¦ ò Speed: +25% max velocity and some agility
based loosely on the naglfar: ò 7 high, 7 med, 6 low, 6/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay increased by 50m¦ *shrug, everybody seems to get it*
based on the cane: ò 8 high, 4 med, 8 low, 6/4 ... or 8-5-7, 6/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay increased by 50m¦
based on a wet dream: ò 8 high, 4 med, 8 low, 7/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay + bandwidth increased by 50m¦ ohwait... that'd be a perfectly acceptable ship like... the geddon.... cant have that
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Varrakk
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:53:00 -
[188]
Where is the faction battleships for Tier 3?
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 12:57:00 -
[189]
Originally by: ian666
based on a wet dream: ò 8 high, 4 med, 8 low, 7/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay + bandwidth increased by 50m¦ ohwait... that'd be a perfectly acceptable ship like... the geddon.... cant have that
Yes. 1155 DPS from guns alone with 3 gyros (yay capless weapons), similiar (if not better thanks to tier2) EHP than geddon, spare HIslot for neut and 125m3 of drones (thats another 316dps). So 1470dps tempest. yep, dream on. Also ask what mega pilots think about it.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:15:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: ian666
based on a wet dream: ò 8 high, 4 med, 8 low, 7/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay + bandwidth increased by 50m¦ ohwait... that'd be a perfectly acceptable ship like... the geddon.... cant have that
Yes. 1155 DPS from guns alone with 3 gyros (yay capless weapons), similiar (if not better thanks to tier2) EHP than geddon, spare HIslot for neut and 125m3 of drones (thats another 316dps). So 1470dps tempest. yep, dream on. Also ask what mega pilots think about it.
himself said .. based on a wet dream... so he knows its a ridiculows exageration.
but if you make it seek old 6/6 slot layout.. a SINGLE of the bonuses goign to 7.% woudl nto be over
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:17:00 -
[191]
(yay falloff) - putting the gist back into logistics |
Snorre Sturlasson
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:34:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Hachi Ironfist The +1 on the Domi is a nice addition, not really that useful but it's ok.
As many stated a +% on drone dmg would have been better... and with the new navy domi you won't be able to fit 2x Large Sentry Damage Augmenters only, 1.... give it +50 more calibration points at least.
I agree. More drone dmg and a more cap recharge would be better.
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KustoMKilleR
Nexus Reborn
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:38:00 -
[193]
CCP please for the love of god take a step back and have a look at what your proposing for the fleet issue tempest and tell me whether you think its sane at all.
extra turret slot is a good boost for the ship BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY REMOVE A MID. seriously.....you want to take the worst fleet issue ship and make it worse?. if you absolutely feel you have to remove a slot for the extra turret then remove a low and give us back our 6 mids. Shununununun....... --------------
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Oddymandius
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:40:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Caroline Nikon Also.. Fleet tempest CANNOT FIT full racks of 1400mm even with the PG boost. The old one could. Increase it 700 PG more or the ship will be even more nerfed than it is now.
Use 1200mm, they do the same DPS when you include reloading.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:40:00 -
[195]
[Armageddon, New Setup 1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
100MN Microwarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I F-90 Positional Sesnor Subroutines
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5
ANmulti 1117 dps @ 15+10 scorch 944 dps @ 45+10 +50 dps if you worship EFT ogres -.-
696.25/696.25 cpu 23633/23821.875 pg - putting the gist back into logistics |
Inquisitor Cononach
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:42:00 -
[196]
I always support more Faction/Special Ships, despite their (at times) exceptionally limited uses and inherant risks (specificly in PvP).
Hoever, I implore you CCP.....you've done such a wonderful job with the Khanid version of Amarr ship design, please consider one day giving us Amarrians our Khanid Battleship.
Every other race has an alternate weapons-platform option in the Battleship Class. Except Amarr.
You have the gorgious EoM Geddon Skin just sitting there, for a Khanid Torp Geddon.
Thanks for a great game, and I hope you'll consider this idea eventually.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:43:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: ian666
based on a wet dream: ò 8 high, 4 med, 8 low, 7/4 ò 7.5% rof+dmg ò Dronebay + bandwidth increased by 50m¦ ohwait... that'd be a perfectly acceptable ship like... the geddon.... cant have that
Yes. 1155 DPS from guns alone with 3 gyros (yay capless weapons), similiar (if not better thanks to tier2) EHP than geddon, spare HIslot for neut and 125m3 of drones (thats another 316dps). So 1470dps tempest. yep, dream on. Also ask what mega pilots think about it.
himself said .. based on a wet dream... so he knows its a ridiculows exageration.
but if you make it seek old 6/6 slot layout.. a SINGLE of the bonuses goign to 7.% woudl nto be over
Thats why i said "dream on" :)
but yeh this pest looks sad. if all just leave changes as they are now and add that mid you took away. fixed
As for navy scorp... uhh.... there is rokh already with sick tank. why double its role?
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Ivanna Nuke
Daralux
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:44:00 -
[198]
Navy Domi... Navy Armageddon, boosts to my Navy Mega win :)
As for the Minmatar... boauahahaha
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:46:00 -
[199]
O-M-G! Nice changes on the fpest, nice on the fphoon, but...
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
* Standard Typhoon armor and shield values have been swapped as well
AWESOME!
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Andrea Skye
Caldari The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:48:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Andrea Skye on 05/09/2009 13:50:22 Tempest fleet issue making me horny!
but.. give it an extra low or mid... atm u gota choose between good dps or average tank. Other ships can have a kind of inbetween, why not the tempest |
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Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:49:00 -
[201]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Originally by: Areo Hotah Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
Raven Navy Issue does not receive extra mid/low slots as well. Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think? The Scorpion Navy Issue also receives an extra high slot with its 5th launcheer but this is due to its role change, as it is based on an ECM hull.
So you admit that autocannons are flawed? *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
Winged Crime
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:52:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Winged Crime on 05/09/2009 13:54:57
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:38:17 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:34:22 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:17:15
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers òFittings: 140 CPU, 39 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Rifter) òCapacitor: 250 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.3 cap/s) òSpeed: 410m/s, 3.2 agility òSensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
Does this mean that the speed bonuses have been removed from the firetail?
Please clarify. I hope not :\
Edit: by the looks of things you boosted it's velocity max anyway. I'm still kinda new at reading/comparing stats/etc
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:52:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Andrea Skye Edited by: Andrea Skye on 05/09/2009 13:50:22 Tempest fleet issue making me horny!
but.. give it an extra low or mid... atm u gota choose between good dps or average tank. Other ships can have a kind of inbetween, why not the tempest
it got only 21 extra dps.. so not horniable at all....
Current fleet tempest can sweep the flootr witht he old one if it had the same fitting capability.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:54:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Winged Crime
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:38:17 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:34:22 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:17:15
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers òFittings: 140 CPU, 39 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Rifter) òCapacitor: 250 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.3 cap/s) òSpeed: 410m/s, 3.2 agility òSensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
Does this mean that the speed bonuses have been removed from the firetail?
Please clarify. I hope not :\
yes speed boost removed
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Kilmatar
Minmatar GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 13:56:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Kilmatar on 05/09/2009 13:56:22
Originally by: Krem daBrut You sure the Firetail based on the Merlin?
No it isnt. the hookbil is based on merlin. firetail is based on rifter. read the post before you type in a reply man=) ============= Matari Rullz! |
Lee Dalton
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:01:00 -
[206]
Whenever I read the changes to Minmatar and the logic behind it, I wish there was a :psyduck:. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:24:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Andrea Skye Edited by: Andrea Skye on 05/09/2009 13:50:22 Tempest fleet issue making me horny!
but.. give it an extra low or mid... atm u gota choose between good dps or average tank. Other ships can have a kind of inbetween, why not the tempest
it got only 21 extra dps.. so not horniable at all....
Current fleet tempest can sweep the flootr witht he old one if it had the same fitting capability.
... over siege missile launcher pest. is there anyone who actually puts siege launchers on pest?
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Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:42:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Happster on 05/09/2009 14:44:33 Just did a quick test on the fleet pest old vs new.
Old with 3 gyros can make a good shield tank and with hail it does 876 dps from guns alone. It has 2 extra high utility slots....
New with 1 gyro to make 3xhardners + 2x LAR to have a good tank, and with hail it does 763 dps and have 1 utility high slot.
Seems pretty easy to me. Fleet pest got nerfed!!
Edit: If you do a plated version of the new fleet pest and fit 2x gyros you can make 910 dps from guns alone. On other side, you can fit 4 gyros on the old fleet pest and get 930 dps from guns alone...
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:44:00 -
[209]
I think I'd also like to see the hookbill use hybrids rather than missiles.
For one thing, frigate missiles are terrible and suck enormously. Presumably this will at some point be fixed but I'd rather not have the hookbill be the worst dps frigate right out of the box.
The main reason is caldari already has a really good non T2 missile frigate - the Kestrel. There is no non T2 good caldari gunboat. The merlin suffers from split layout syndrome. I'd like to see a gunboat option for non T2 caldari frigates.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:49:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Vanessa Vasquez
Nice idea, love it. Just think they are to cheap compared to the 600.000 LP + base hull for the Tier 2 Navies.
Remember that is FW LP only. You really can't compare the two, as it's much easier to earn masses of LP's via high sec L4's than from missions in low sec that make you jump through 19 low sec systems full of wartargets per mission.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:50:00 -
[211]
I'm far too lazy to sift through all the fleet tempest whines to find out if someone already mentioned this:
The 7th turret now makes the fleet Tempest superior to the Maelstrom and the Vargur in terms of dps with autocannons and artilleries too if you stop for a moment and remember you can still fit a 5 midslot shield tank + damage mods and a power grid mod in the lows.
It shouldn't be something to cry about that you have to use grid mods to fit 1400s. You can't fit T2 Tachyons on the Navy Geddon or Apoc without grid mods. Hell, you can't even fit them on an Abaddon with skills alone. Last time I checked, you can fit a full rack of T2 1400s on a Maelstrom, no grid mods needed.
For anyone who says "but that's only fair because artillery sucks and Minny battleships should have the heaviest artillery to compensate!", well that's a problem with artillery sucking, not these ships. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:55:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
The 7th turret now makes the fleet Tempest superior to the Maelstrom and the Vargur in terms of dps with autocannons and artilleries too if you stop for a moment and remember you can still fit a 5 midslot shield tank + damage mods and a power grid mod in the lows.
How do you plan to fit a good shield tank with only 5 mid slots? -1 for cap injector -1 for warp disruptor or jammer -1 for shield booster -1 for shield boost amp -1 invu ?
You call this a good shield tank?
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.09.05 14:57:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Ulstan Remember that is FW LP only. You really can't compare the two, as it's much easier to earn masses of LP's via high sec L4's than from missions in low sec that make you jump through 19 low sec systems full of wartargets per mission.
I can't wait to circumvent the whole system by buying a navy geddon and scorpion off the players who will exploit FW LP for profit. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:03:00 -
[214]
To answer some concerns.
Imperial Navy Slicer:
The 25% bonus to small energy turret is not a typo; this ship has the equivalent of 4.5 unbonused turrets which compensates for other drawbacks, like its relative low CPU or only two mid slots.
Republic Fleet Firetail:
The speed bonus has been indeed removed for the bonus to small projectile turret damage, but its base speed has been increased by 15% to compensate quite a bit, and it is still the fastest of all navy frigates by far. The damage bonus puts its effective turret number to 4, while keeping 2 extra launcher slots than can also be fitted with utilities.
Shield recharge rate:
Yes, increasing shield recharge rate on navy ships was a deliberate move to prevent them to reach insane passive tanking capabilities while keeping more than good offensive capabilities in combat.
Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).
Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
Pirate ship boost
> This newsitem has a hint
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:15:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
The 7th turret now makes the fleet Tempest superior to the Maelstrom and the Vargur in terms of dps with autocannons and artilleries too if you stop for a moment and remember you can still fit a 5 midslot shield tank + damage mods and a power grid mod in the lows.
How do you plan to fit a good shield tank with only 5 mid slots? -1 for cap injector -1 for warp disruptor or jammer -1 for shield booster -1 for shield boost amp -1 invu ?
You call this a good shield tank?
Since you made it up on the fly, I'd call it a terrible shield tank.
I'm sorry, I should have anticipated that you'd use an active shield tank for PVP on a ship that's not built to active tank. You play to the ship's strengths(high hitpoints!) and buffertank it with a mwd. Get a gangmate in an inty with a high scan resolution to do the tackling.
The only time it would be worth active tanking is in pve running missions which makes it easy to tank:
Mids: 1 x XL SB 3 x Hardeners of choice 1 x Cap Recharger
Lows: 1 x Dmg Control 3 x Gyrostabs 2 x Cap Flux coils
Rigs: 3 x CCC
Ta-da! -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:21:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Happster on 05/09/2009 15:22:07 Edited by: Happster on 05/09/2009 15:21:12
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
The 7th turret now makes the fleet Tempest superior to the Maelstrom and the Vargur in terms of dps with autocannons and artilleries too if you stop for a moment and remember you can still fit a 5 midslot shield tank + damage mods and a power grid mod in the lows.
How do you plan to fit a good shield tank with only 5 mid slots? -1 for cap injector -1 for warp disruptor or jammer -1 for shield booster -1 for shield boost amp -1 invu ?
You call this a good shield tank?
Since you made it up on the fly, I'd call it a terrible shield tank.
I'm sorry, I should have anticipated that you'd use an active shield tank for PVP on a ship that's not built to active tank. You play to the ship's strengths(high hitpoints!) and buffertank it with a mwd. Get a gangmate in an inty with a high scan resolution to do the tackling.
The only time it would be worth active tanking is in pve running missions which makes it easy to tank:
Mids: 1 x XL SB 3 x Hardeners of choice 1 x Cap Recharger
Lows: 1 x Dmg Control 3 x Gyrostabs 2 x Cap Flux coils
Rigs: 3 x CCC
Ta-da!
Maybe this is a good missions setup i dont know. I would use fleet pest for pvp not for missions. I assume the marauders do missions better as it has 3 utility slots for tractor beams, and savagers, and it has begger cargo to store it all.
As for pvp fit, i find this setup horrible.
Edit: CCP Ytterbium pointed out ccp know about the issues that worries me so his post is good enough for me to sit back and wait for better times :)
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Wrayeth
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:21:00 -
[217]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Tempest Navy Issue: We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).
I think this is the first time I've seen a dev post that fully acknowledges that there's a problem with the tempest. It gives me hope that I will actually get to fly the weathervane again in PvP, finally.
I'm going to throw out a prediction that large projectile DPS will be increased. The tempest will also get somewhat more grid, the typhoon will get more grid and CPU, and the maelstrom will either lose a highslot or a turret slot. If the mael loses a highslot, it can be hoped that it will change to a mid so the mael can tackle. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:23:00 -
[218]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Navy Issue:
At least leave it with 6 mids if you plan to patch it later.
Quote:
Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
Thing is: tank role in combat is stupid/useless/boring (chose whichever you like). If you plan on being the bait you can be sure that enemy will change target and kill you last when your friends are dead. And as your ship is only tank and cant help combat by much... its pretty much useless. Just check how often navy augorors were used or how often prophecys are. Those are tank boats = boring.
Plus if caldari pilot REALLY wants tank boat he can just bring rokh...
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RP McMurphy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:24:00 -
[219]
Noooo, dont change firetail's speed bonus.
Rather remove that tracking bonus and add speed bonus back! I need my firetail to go 5km/s or more! Its not like i'm gonna shoot anybody while flying 4km/s anyway, so tracking bonus is useless!
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Kayosoni
Caldari Ghosting Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:30:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Kayosoni on 05/09/2009 15:31:42 Edited by: Kayosoni on 05/09/2009 15:30:42
Quote:
Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
Thing is: tank role in combat is stupid/useless/boring (chose whichever you like). If you plan on being the bait you can be sure that enemy will change target and kill you last when your friends are dead. And as your ship is only tank and cant help combat by much... its pretty much useless. Just check how often navy augorors were used or how often prophecys are. Those are tank boats = boring.
Plus if caldari pilot REALLY wants tank boat he can just bring rokh...
pretty much this. Tanking is completely utterly worthless in today's pvp due to you guys making active tanking suck so hard and use so much cap. No one tanks at all. The only way for navy scorp to be an actually useful ship in pvp is to have an ECM bonus. Although I like the resist bonus for pve, that's about all it's good for. PVE. (although I also don't want a tech 1 navy version of the widow either.) Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator |
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Renarla
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:32:00 -
[221]
As freaking awesome as this, what about the Navy Cruisers? Some of them are decent as they are (Vexor, Omen) but the others (all of the pirate ones for example) are lacking. However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs. |
ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:39:00 -
[222]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Tempest: I think the tempest is awesome as is tbh. It's versatile and can perform fine as a shield or armor tanker.
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:40:00 -
[223]
lolfit incoming!
[Dominix, New Setup 1] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Transporter II Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Egress Port Maximizer I Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Garde II x5
771/775.5 cpu (drone rigging IV) half pg used blah
- yes, only 495dps @30+12km around your gardes - seen better tanks, too.... - but 3 perma neuts! -.- - grab a cap-partner in the same thing obviously - putting the gist back into logistics |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:42:00 -
[224]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 05/09/2009 15:43:15
Originally by: Happster
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Mids: 1 x XL SB 3 x Hardeners of choice 1 x Cap Recharger
Lows: 1 x Dmg Control 3 x Gyrostabs 2 x Cap Flux coils
Rigs: 3 x CCC
Ta-da!
Maybe this is a good missions setup i dont know. I would use fleet pest for pvp not for missions. I assume the marauders do missions better as it has 3 utility slots for tractor beams and salvagers, and it has bigger cargo to store it all.
As for pvp fit, i find your setup horrible. Only place for this ship to fight is in 0.0 and you cant use it in low sec. Even then i dont like the setup. and ccc rigs on a pvp ship?
You're a bit dim, aren't you?
I specifically posted that fit as a PVE fit, not a PVP fit. I said you BUFFERTANK FOR PVP IF YOU HAVE A SHIP WITH HIGH HITPOINTS LIKE A FLEET TEMPEST. You want a fleet Tempest PVP fit?
Mids: 2 x Large Shield Extender 2 x Invulnerability field 1 x MWD
Lows 1 x Damage control 3 x Gyrostab
2 x Power grid mods if you're fitting 1400 arties OR 2 x Tracking enhancers for the autocannons.
Rigs 3 x Core defence field extenders -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:49:00 -
[225]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place.
Finaly!
THANK YOU!
Ytterbium for President!
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:02:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 16:03:09
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
The geddon, typhoon and dominix all seem to be just improved versions of the existing ship with little extra bonuses, which is very nice. But I'm not sure what is going on here with the navy scorp, you've changed its role completely. It gets a shield resistance bonus instead of ECM so it instead focuses on a massive 8-slotable shield tank. If I had to guess, I'd say they're all being focused on short range combat, which could be interesting. But I'm not sure how much damage this scorp will be able to do with only 5 launchers and a few turrets without bonuses. They'd probably be great for neuts but I doubt you can fit heavy neuts and torps with that little powergrid.
Will be interesting to test them out and see what they can do.
I'm actually rather glad they didn't try an ECM ship. ECM ships have paper thin tank and get primaried. I don't see that working out well. Plus we have scads of ECM ships - blackbird, scorpion, rook, and falcon.
I think by dropping the range bonus the raven gets for the resistance bonus, and including more utility highs, they are, as you say, going for a shorter range/higher tank/more neuts brawler type of BS. Could be interesting at least...if it had the powergrid it needed to use some neuts. But no, no, it's got to have hardly any powergrid at all, like all caldari ships :D
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Chao Phyra
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:05:00 -
[227]
"Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general)."
For goodness sake - loosing that extra mid slot is not worth the extra turret. Players have opted for the fleet pest BECAUSE of the sixth mid.
There are hundreds of replies to several threads related to the Tempest, and projectiles, with little or no dev acknowledgemnt. Fix the underlying problem, don't change this a souped up version of the T1 hull
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:06:00 -
[228]
Navy issue Scorpion will be overpowered?
Highs 5 x Siege Missile Launcher II 2 x Heavy NOS
Mids: 1 x MWD or AB 2 x LSE II 1 x EM hardener 2 x Invuln field 2 x PWNAGE painter
Lows 3 x BCS 1 x Damage Control
Rigs 1 x Hydraulic Bay Thrusters 1 x Rocket Fuel Cache Partition 1 x Core Defence Field Extender -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Vannogh
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:09:00 -
[229]
Navy Hyperion? Pleeeeaze? :D
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:12:00 -
[230]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 05/09/2009 16:12:50 It's good to see that CCP is aware of the issues with the tempest and projectiles, but I feel they're overlooking the projectiles bit. CCP, it's not just the tempest. Its all of the projectiles. They're the stem of nearly all minmatar issues. The tempest is a separate case and should be treated as such.
I would still never fly the navy pest, but the navy geddon looks pretty sweet.
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To mare
Amarr Advanced Technology
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:12:00 -
[231]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns. Republic Fleet Firetail:
The speed bonus has been indeed removed for the bonus to small projectile turret damage, but its base speed has been increased by 15% to compensate quite a bit, and it is still the fastest of all navy frigates by far. The damage bonus puts its effective turret number to 4, while keeping 2 extra launcher slots than can also be fitted with utilities.
not only the speed boost of the firetail got removed wich was the only thing the ship was good at, but all the other ships got a WAY HIGHER speed boost than the firetail. slicer 287390 +103ms hookbill268370+102ms comet282365+83ms firetail357410+53ms
the thing is only 20ms faster than the amarr ships, i seriously hope the mass of the firetail will be low enough to have a decent speed advantage at least with the mwd because now the speed advantage is no existant.
oh and btw since you people removed a high the ship isnt keeping anymore 2 slot for missile like you say.
not even going to comment about the tempest and the phoon cause i will be passable of ban if i really say what i think. thanks for giving minmatar always the worst stuff.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:14:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 16:15:06
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
I like your reasoning here, and agree with it. However, the scorpion simply doesn't have the PG to really use those 'utility slots' right now. I love the idea of having those utility slots, but there's just not much you can do with them due to PG shortage.
5x Siege missile launcher II's is 8271 grid 2x heavy energy neut I (not even dreaming of using the tech II variant) is 4000 grid 100mn microwarpdrive I (again, not even trying for tech II) is 1250 grid.
That's 13521 grid total. We're already far over the grid the scorpion has and we haven't even pretended to fit any tank. Meanwhile, the typhoon, which has an actually reasonable amount of grid for siege launchers and utility highs, can pull it off.
The concept for the navy scorpion is promising but it needs way more grid.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:17:00 -
[233]
Think about this on the fleet tempest:
òSlot layout: SAME AS OLD! òFittings: 590 CPU, 16000 powergrid (now CAN use the damm slots) òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth 100Mbits òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10% ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:19:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Ulstan Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 16:15:06
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
I like your reasoning here, and agree with it. However, the scorpion simply doesn't have the PG to really use those 'utility slots' right now. I love the idea of having those utility slots, but there's just not much you can do with them due to PG shortage.
5x Siege missile launcher II's is 8271 grid 2x heavy energy neut I (not even dreaming of using the tech II variant) is 4000 grid 100mn microwarpdrive I (again, not even trying for tech II) is 1250 grid.
That's 13521 grid total. We're already far over the grid the scorpion has and we haven't even pretended to fit any tank. Meanwhile, the typhoon, which has an actually reasonable amount of grid for siege launchers and utility highs, can pull it off.
The concept for the navy scorpion is promising but it needs way more grid.
1-the typhoon have 8 highs fill 2-the typhoon is armor tank wich use alot more grid than shield tank 3-maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed. 4-utility =/= heavy neut
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Tyler Lowe
DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:30:00 -
[235]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns.
Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).
Very nice to see some confirmation that the player concerns about the state of Matar battleships and projectiles in genral have not gone unnoticed.
My two bits: Tempest: -1 highslot, +1 lowslot. Tempest Fleet +1 turret hardpoint, +grid.
Projectiles need the addition of falloff to the optimal scripts and tracking enhancers for them to have any hope for parity. I do not understand how falloff was added to tracking disruption without also adding it to modules that enhance range. Artillery needs additional magazine size, or maybe, you could go with a 5 second reload timer for projectiles and leave turret capacity alone.
While we're on the topic, a tiered falloff scheme for different sizes of projectile weapons would be nice, as would an increase to 10% per level for trajectory analysis. Falloff is a large part of the problem with projectiles. It is a weak mechanic when compared to optimal bonus, it no longer has a built in protection from E-War going for it, and it needs an overhaul.
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To mare
Amarr Advanced Technology
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:33:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Think about this on the fleet tempest:
òSlot layout: SAME AS OLD! òFittings: 590 CPU, 16000 powergrid (now CAN use the damm slots) òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth 100Mbits òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
yea seriously this would be a much better boost. and the PG boost would be very well accepted even on the normal pest, and fix the damn projectiles this the most important thing.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:01:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Von Kapiche on 05/09/2009 17:06:36 Hurrah for navy domi/phoon, boo for the firetail losing it's speed :( that's what made it unique. Looks more like a Dramiel now...
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Meldorn Vaash
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:11:00 -
[238]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns.
Republic Fleet Firetail:
The speed bonus has been indeed removed for the bonus to small projectile turret damage, but its base speed has been increased by 15% to compensate quite a bit, and it is still the fastest of all navy frigates by far. The damage bonus puts its effective turret number to 4, while keeping 2 extra launcher slots than can also be fitted with utilities.
New slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers
ok.... 2 guns in 2 slots + Bonus =equals 4 guns... leaves 1 high slot left for 1 launcher or utility. You mentioned 2 launcher slots... so is the new inital layout wrong or are you thinking of adding another high slot? "A poorly fitted ship is just wreckage waiting to be salvaged" |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:36:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 17:39:04
Originally by: 1600 RT maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed.
Haha, what?
Are you seriously suggesting the Scorpion fitting 5 siege missile launchers and a tech I MWD is unreasonable? Are you planning to run around in PvP with no MWD and cruise missiles or something?
If it can't fit those and also make use of the utility highs, it's not going to be a very good ship. 'Tanking' is not a role in PvP. At all. Suggesting the navy scorpion is going to be a lower dps, lower range, higher tank version of the Raven sounds like a recipe for a ship that never is used in PvP. Now, a lower dps, lower range, more utility ship than the raven *does* sound interesting.
The Raven, I need hardly point out, already has a couple utility highs but it also doesn't have the grid to do much with them. If the scorp is going to be similarly unable to fully utilize its utility highs but is going to have one less missile launcher than the raven, I don't really see much to appeal to the average pilot.
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Squidfoam
Last In First Out
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:51:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Squidfoam on 05/09/2009 17:52:38 That's a pretty nice Dominix Navy Issue - but it doesn't address any limitations of the Dominix, whilst buffing its already favourable slot configuration.
Limitations of the Dominix:
The powergrid means you have to fit energy saving lightbulbs instead of turrets (hard to buff this without making it too easy to fit cap neuts though). So, thanks for a completely worthless hybrid damage bonus!
Drone damage is weak sauce when you don't have any turrets to go with it (and the domi can't fit enough turrets to be worth it - "powerful weapons batteries" lol).
Drones are slow. Not compared to ships, to be sure, but slow to get on target compared to any other weapons.
So - keep the same powergrid, reduce hardpoints, role bonus to hybrid damage? Buff powergrid, risk neut monstrosity? Drone speed (mwd only) bonus? Slightly increased drone damage bonus?
At least remove the "powerful weapons batteries" from the description - alternatively, add a claim of "powerful engines providing blistering speed" to the Raven. Or, "synergistic weapons configuration" to the Typhoon.
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JZIM
Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:56:00 -
[241]
Originally by: 1600 RT 1-the typhoon have 8 highs fill 2-the typhoon is armor tank wich use alot more grid than shield tank 3-maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed. 4-utility =/= heavy neut
1) The Typhoon gets 8 bonused weapons. Short-range weapons generally need less powergrid than neuts. 2) 2x1600 RTs = 1000PG, 2x LSE II = 330. Not a 3k discrepancy. 3) What would you suggest? Cruises? Use a CNR. To make the Navy Scorp attractive over the CNR it needs to be able to brawl. At the suggested fitting stats it is completely incapable of doing this in the way the other faction ships can. 4) Please suggest a decent PvP utility high which isn't A. A neut B. Pointless on this ship. Keep in mind shield transporters have such absurd fitting requirements shield RR at BS level is almost completely redundant.
Without decent fitting the Navy Scorpion is just a Navy Osprey mk. 2: No clear role, insufficient fitting to fit for its role even if it had one, vastly inferior to its higher tier counterpart in every conceivable way.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:56:00 -
[242]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Pirate ship boost
> This newsitem has a hint
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback.
So it really isn't a discussion anymore, rather it's you doing what you're going to do and then we deal with it.
Can you at least throw us what you're THINKING about?
We care about the ships we fly. Please at least let us THINK we're a part of the decision making/guiding process.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:56:00 -
[243]
Originally by: MalVortex I'm going to give up on the failings of the navy geddon - too many players are rah-rahing over its announcement for good discussion. That said, I'm not going to give up on the Navy Apocalypse.
No please do go on, because honestly I don't see anything more you could do to it that wouldn't make it overpowered. that aside, it also looks to be the best tier 1 navy battleship.
I must agree on redoing the navy apoc, however I'm not entirely sold on your idea, although yes it would be a fearful ship to see 100km off a gate, using megapulse with scorch at that range I am not sure the tracking bonus is in its best interest at that point.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:02:00 -
[244]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
Pirate ship boost
> This newsitem has a hint
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Other improvements are in the pipeline and will be posted when we feel an initial balance has been reached and ready for player feedback.
that really doesn't make me feel any better about the navy scorp, focusing on tank is so lame and 3 years ago
and I can't believe people would think after all this work on empire navy bs + new navy bs that you wouldn't touch pirate bs. although with some of the expansions latly I guess their doubt isn't fully undeserved.
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Jarden
Gallente The Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:07:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Squidfoam Edited by: Squidfoam on 05/09/2009 17:52:38
Limitations of the Dominix:
The powergrid means you have to fit energy saving lightbulbs instead of turrets (hard to buff this without making it too easy to fit cap neuts though). So, thanks for a completely worthless hybrid damage bonus!
With the damagebonus and a 6 medslot it can dish out a lot of damage and fit a shieldtank.
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Rayokashi
Order of Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:13:00 -
[246]
Thank you CCP for letting us know that you have recognized that Tempest as battleship is not up todate. However, it is only one part of bigger problem which is projectiles as a weapon platform. Projectiles, specially large, need to be looked and something needs to be done. Players have suggested many ideas (which are in fact good and balanced) and there are even currently good topics to be read at Assembly Hall.
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Mojster Pek
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:15:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Mojster Pek on 05/09/2009 18:16:22 personaly i dont like the navy mega cpu and pwg boost... becouse with more cpu and pwg it will be no problem fitting it perfectly at all-even for noobs... i think navy mega should stay the same for the same reason = you have to sitt down and think about how you are gonna fit it becouse of the lack of pwg and cpu... for example... now you have to fit adaptive nano plating(navy or better) instead of energized adaptive nano membrane.. and best named scrambler and web instead of T2 etc etc.. to get into the required pwg and cpu.. with the new navy mega there would be no problem fitting all neutron blaster cannons, heavy cap. booster, mwd, heavy neut.. etc etc...
keep the navy mega the same and let it be hard to fit =) and if im not mistaking the same goes for the navy apoc and navy raven... for example(navy raven) you would have to wait for some skills and sacrifice some slots or modules to fit all torps, extenders(HP tank pvp) etc etc...
so seriously.. think about it... navy mega, navy apoc, navy raven dont need a pwg/cpu boost.. if you want to boost them than give the navy mega(for example) damage boost or more armor hp or something more usefull...
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:25:00 -
[248]
Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 05/09/2009 18:30:25
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Navy issue Scorpion will be overpowered?
Highs 5 x Siege Missile Launcher II 2 x Heavy NOS
Mids: 1 x MWD or AB 2 x LSE II 1 x EM hardener 2 x Invuln field 2 x PWNAGE painter
Lows 3 x BCS 1 x Damage Control
Rigs 1 x Hydraulic Bay Thrusters 1 x Rocket Fuel Cache Partition 1 x Core Defence Field Extender
Kind of bad fit, really. Neut it up, and add a point as well. with 8 slots it should have a point.
I got mixed feeling about the navy scorp, while being able to tank, it has less dps then a regular Raven, so why would you want this?
And the NIR got even more dps with 7 lauchers.
I would propose to add more drones to navy scorp, let it have 5 large ones.
Edit: and NEVER an AB
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:26:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Ulstan Edited by: Ulstan on 05/09/2009 17:39:04
Originally by: 1600 RT maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed.
Haha, what?
Are you seriously suggesting the Scorpion fitting 5 siege missile launchers and a tech I MWD is unreasonable? Are you planning to run around in PvP with no MWD and cruise missiles or something?
If it can't fit those and also make use of the utility highs, it's not going to be a very good ship. 'Tanking' is not a role in PvP. At all. Suggesting the navy scorpion is going to be a lower dps, lower range, higher tank version of the Raven sounds like a recipe for a ship that never is used in PvP. Now, a lower dps, lower range, more utility ship than the raven *does* sound interesting.
The Raven, I need hardly point out, already has a couple utility highs but it also doesn't have the grid to do much with them. If the scorp is going to be similarly unable to fully utilize its utility highs but is going to have one less missile launcher than the raven, I don't really see much to appeal to the average pilot.
it have plenty of PG to fit your 5 siege + mwd i was mainly arguing about the two heavy neut
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Creed Demastikus
Bregan Dearthe United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:31:00 -
[250]
Originally by: fab24
Originally by: Areo Hotah Why are the Minmatar the only battleships who do not get additional mid and low slots, but only more turret hardpoints?
Yeah, stop nerfing minmatars...
i'm beggining to think in the oolddd daysss.. whole bunch of devs also ccp ceo's personal eve character wiped out by some minmatar pilots.. soo thats the reason of this hate agaisnt us..
i hope they did kill u over and over and over !!!
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:33:00 -
[251]
Slicer is looking ****. comet is looking meh. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Bizheep
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:34:00 -
[252]
Originally by: JZIM
Originally by: 1600 RT 1-the typhoon have 8 highs fill 2-the typhoon is armor tank wich use alot more grid than shield tank 3-maybe the scorpion isn supposed to fit what you have listed. 4-utility =/= heavy neut
1) The Typhoon gets 8 bonused weapons. Short-range weapons generally need less powergrid than neuts. 2) 2x1600 RTs = 1000PG, 2x LSE II = 330. Not a 3k discrepancy. 3) What would you suggest? Cruises? Use a CNR. To make the Navy Scorp attractive over the CNR it needs to be able to brawl. At the suggested fitting stats it is completely incapable of doing this in the way the other faction ships can. 4) Please suggest a decent PvP utility high which isn't A. A neut B. Pointless on this ship. Keep in mind shield transporters have such absurd fitting requirements shield RR at BS level is almost completely redundant.
Without decent fitting the Navy Scorpion is just a Navy Osprey mk. 2: No clear role, insufficient fitting to fit for its role even if it had one, vastly inferior to its higher tier counterpart in every conceivable way.
it could be worse, it could be a fleet tempest
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:35:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Squidfoam Edited by: Squidfoam on 05/09/2009 17:52:38 That's a pretty nice Dominix Navy Issue - but it doesn't address any limitations of the Dominix, whilst buffing its already favourable slot configuration.
Limitations of the Dominix:
The powergrid means you have to fit energy saving lightbulbs instead of turrets (hard to buff this without making it too easy to fit cap neuts though). So, thanks for a completely worthless hybrid damage bonus!
Drone damage is weak sauce when you don't have any turrets to go with it (and the domi can't fit enough turrets to be worth it - "powerful weapons batteries" lol).
Drones are slow. Not compared to ships, to be sure, but slow to get on target compared to any other weapons.
So - keep the same powergrid, reduce hardpoints, role bonus to hybrid damage? Buff powergrid, risk neut monstrosity? Drone speed (mwd only) bonus? Slightly increased drone damage bonus?
At least remove the "powerful weapons batteries" from the description - alternatively, add a claim of "powerful engines providing blistering speed" to the Raven. Or, "synergistic weapons configuration" to the Typhoon.
Well the tempest description say its along range bombardment platform and invaluable to any fleet.. yeahh right...
Well the dominix is already one of best short range BSs, and 6 blasters is not worthless.. its hard to make afaction dominix without making it overpowered by accident.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:46:00 -
[254]
Why did you take a lowslot away from the geddon? :( __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:48:00 -
[255]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
Assuming it has the fittings to use the utility slots, this does not justify flying the ship.
Okay: its a tankier raven with less effective missile launchers and a few more high/med slots to play with. Sure I can fit tackle on this instead of buffer or target painters, but, if you're pvping in a faction BS and aren't an idiot you know you will be primary and have other people in gang who can drop tackle. Would I use one over a standard raven given the same price? Maybe, dependings on the situation. Would I ever pay a hundreds-of-millions (and these WILL cost at least 300mil, likely significantly more) for the difference? NO.
This is going to be one of the ships that you could make an argument for being better than t1 alternatives (Raven); but in practice it doesn't make any sense to fly it except for the shiny factor. CNR beats it down in pve and a standard-old-insurable raven beats it down in pvp.
Seriously, ECM was over-nerfed across the board to deal with falcon alts. Throw ecm pilots a bone and maybe make this worth using in pvp.
Or if that's not feasible at least make it worth flying. This as presented is useful as a bait ship and thats it.
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Alkisti
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:00:00 -
[256]
Don't mutilate Tempest Fleet Issue!!!
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Squidfoam
Last In First Out
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:20:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Jarden
Originally by: Squidfoam Edited by: Squidfoam on 05/09/2009 17:52:38
Limitations of the Dominix:
The powergrid means you have to fit energy saving lightbulbs instead of turrets (hard to buff this without making it too easy to fit cap neuts though). So, thanks for a completely worthless hybrid damage bonus!
With the damagebonus and a 6 medslot it can dish out a lot of damage and fit a shieldtank.
and cap out before you can say "and cap out before you can say".
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:26:00 -
[258]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
Honestly, do you actually PvP in this game? It's not just that it has less dps than the CNR, it's that it has less dps than a standard Raven. Specializing in tank over dps is not a role in PvP. Pay careful attention to the laughable uselessness of the uber-tanked Drake in PvP. It has awesome tank but poor dps, and is a terrible PvP ship.
As for the faction ECM ship, it would hardly be overpowered. The standard Scorpion or Widow already jam just as well, and in the Scorpion's case, for much less ISK. And since you are going to want some tank on your expensive faction toy, you won't be fitting a full rack of ECM. The end result would be balanced just fine, and actually do something the standard Raven can't.
The solution is simple: give the Scorpion a 6th launcher slot to at least match the standard Raven in dps.
Oh, and it would be nice to get an answer on the Hookbill: why are you turning it into a missile ship when it should be a railboat instead? Give it 25% hybrid damage, 10% hybrid optimal range, 5% shield resists, and enough grid to fit MWD, medium extender, cap booster, and 150mm rails. ==========
Merin is banned (yet again). Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
* Your signature is locked due to violating forum rules. Please file a petition once you have an appropriate signature - Fallout |
Vanden
The Happy Spacemen
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:39:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin Pay careful attention to the laughable uselessness of the uber-tanked Drake in PvP. It has awesome tank but poor dps, and is a terrible PvP ship.
An uber-tanked Drake is crap in PVP, but the Drake itself isn't. Rawr Cristina has done some wonderful videos that illustrate this.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.09.05 19:39:00 -
[260]
Quote:
Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).
Since every MMO I play I always end up picking the worst and weak combo till they patch it 5 years later, does it mean EvE would be the first exception to that rule? - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Saerinea Kael
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:16:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Since every MMO I play I always end up picking the worst and weak combo till they patch it 5 years later, does it mean EvE would be the first exception to that rule?
Depends on if you start your five year count from when you start playing or since the game's been out. EVE is celebrating it's sixth birthday very soon if I am not mistaken....
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:26:00 -
[262]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns. Shield recharge rate: Yes, increasing shield recharge rate on navy ships was a deliberate move to prevent them to reach insane passive tanking capabilities while keeping more than good offensive capabilities in combat.
Finally, some acknowledgement that there is a problem with overpowered passive shield recharge. Now look at battlecruisers and we all know which one in particular (or swap the 5% resist for a 5% rof)
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Navy Issue: We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).
Left out the new Phoon. Makes no sense that it gets one less mid/low slot, if you are concerned about antoher low with a damage mod at least give it a mid, so it could be 8/5/7
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Butzewutze
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:37:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Butzewutze on 05/09/2009 20:39:51 Cheers,
Congrats to the guy who thought that these changes would improve the Tempest FI. U clearly lack in knowledge about balancing and i really have to scratch my head why you came up with that. Maybe it would be better if u get a new position in CCP, maybe in the administration or something where you dont have to think about complicated stuff so often.
Quote:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place.
Cool, if you want to build a house you would start with the roof eh? Ever heard about getting the fundament right before adding something on top? I dont want even to start with all the things that are wrong with Minmatar (bellicose, rapier, huginn, tempest, typhoon, no way to improve range on autocannons except rigs and so on). I am 100% sure you will get all that problems fixed because you showed a clear understanding of balancing in the past.
*if u find sarcasm in this post then u can keep it*
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.09.05 21:04:00 -
[264]
Not to be completely negative after that navy scorp complaint; I really, really like what was done with the faction frigs. They were ships worth flying only for the bling aspect before, but now they'll be actual good ships; love the whole new set.
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Dyphos
Pod Liberation Authority Pod Liberation Authority.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 21:09:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa So it really isn't a discussion anymore, rather it's you doing what you're going to do and then we deal with it. Can you at least throw us what you're THINKING about? We care about the ships we fly. Please at least let us THINK we're a part of the decision making/guiding process.
No offense, but you're probably the LAST person anyone should be listening to in regards of what and how to fly. Your method of pvp simply consists of throwing isk at problems. Isk that the casual player does not have or have RL cash to reinforce. Because of this, your point is moot since you're about as practical as an inflatable raft in space.
With that said, the ship changes look great. It's nice to see the faction frigates are getting some love. I don't see what all the Firetail hate is for. They've turned your glorified shuttle into a faster/stronger Rifter with (essentially) a built in plate and a 4th midslot to utilize some ewar. Same goes for the Slicer; I see it's meant to replace the AB Crusaders that people seem addicted to flying in low sec. If anything the Hookbill may have some trouble since rockets are still less than ideal.
Other than that, I look forward to seeing what changes are in store for the Daredevil and Dramiel. I read some nice possibilities for them on SHC, hopefully things go in that direction.
Also, reducing the price of pirate ships should be a major factor in your balancing process. Right now the pirate faction ships cost WAY too much, so unless the pirate ships bring something truly unique to the field there is no reason they should be costing 3x as much as empire faction ships.
Keep it up!
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Spartan dax
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Posted - 2009.09.05 21:22:00 -
[266]
Tanky scorp and no range bonused torps doesn't really appeal much to me. Do something different, say, tanky Scorp with a drone bonus, now that'd be sex! Or save it for the Rattlesnake which would probably fit more being a Gallente/Caldari hybrid afterall.
It's high time Caldari get's a drone boat.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 21:31:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Vanden
Originally by: Sera Ryskin Pay careful attention to the laughable uselessness of the uber-tanked Drake in PvP. It has awesome tank but poor dps, and is a terrible PvP ship.
An uber-tanked Drake is crap in PVP, but the Drake itself isn't. Rawr Cristina has done some wonderful videos that illustrate this.
Well I think you should take it more as a baseline statemnt that tanking combined with zero flexiblity(and in the passive drake case without tackle) or DPS is quite a fail role in PVP.
Also I don¦t see the faction ECM BS actualy working since it makes you the ultimate primary and face it if you sit in a faction BS you want a very good tank since it is the main improvement over the T1 BS. ECM platform and Tank exclude each other in some ways(if you not put on this strong ECM bonuses that the ship could rock with only 2-3 ECMs).
Basicly the ship could fill a role that is not filled yet in the caldari lineup, solo BS. You have 8 meds + resist bonus making it a very good tank, even with Web, Point and MWD fitted. If you add some powergrid for Nos\Neuts you could end up with a very flexible, hard tanking caldari BS. 25m¦ more dronebay/bandwhide + more grid, think about the options.
Originally by: Lili Lu Edited by: Lili Lu on 05/09/2009 20:27:53
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns. Shield recharge rate: Yes, increasing shield recharge rate on navy ships was a deliberate move to prevent them to reach insane passive tanking capabilities while keeping more than good offensive capabilities in combat.
Finally, some acknowledgement that there is a problem with overpowered passive shield recharge. Now look at battlecruisers and we all know which one in particular (or swap the 5% resist for a 5% rof)
Actualy I don¦t see any reason for this nerf. If somebody passivetanks his faction BS for L4 how cares? A active tank will be faster, require less slots and will be more effective overall. They basicly gimp her ship with it in the same way the gimped her Drake before. In PVP? I never seen a passive tanked faction BS in PVP(since it is a stupid idea to big with) in 3 years. On the other hand it weakens active shield tanking in PVP(a bit at least) and even if it is no big deal I like my shield buffer recharging at a good speed while you are between fights with a armortank. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.09.05 21:54:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Dyphos
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa So it really isn't a discussion anymore, rather it's you doing what you're going to do and then we deal with it. Can you at least throw us what you're THINKING about? We care about the ships we fly. Please at least let us THINK we're a part of the decision making/guiding process.
No offense, but you're probably the LAST person anyone should be listening to in regards of what and how to fly. Your method of pvp simply consists of throwing isk at problems. Isk that the casual player does not have or have RL cash to reinforce. Because of this, your point is moot since you're about as practical as an inflatable raft in space.
You have absolutely no solid ground to base that judgement on. I am a player just like everybody else who enjoys flying neat stuff because I find value in them. For the last time I DO NOT BUY GTCs TO PLAY EVE. I DID IT ONCE AND IT WAS FOR A GOD DAMN POS.
DROP IT.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:00:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 05/09/2009 22:01:10
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Dyphos
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa So it really isn't a discussion anymore, rather it's you doing what you're going to do and then we deal with it. Can you at least throw us what you're THINKING about? We care about the ships we fly. Please at least let us THINK we're a part of the decision making/guiding process.
No offense, but you're probably the LAST person anyone should be listening to in regards of what and how to fly. Your method of pvp simply consists of throwing isk at problems. Isk that the casual player does not have or have RL cash to reinforce. Because of this, your point is moot since you're about as practical as an inflatable raft in space.
You have absolutely no solid ground to base that judgement on. I am a player just like everybody else who enjoys flying neat stuff because I find value in them. For the last time I DO NOT BUY GTCs TO PLAY EVE. I DID IT ONCE AND IT WAS FOR A GOD DAMN POS.
DROP IT.
Throwing vigilant at myrmidon and then whining that vigilant cant win? AFAIK it was you. Also ashimmu fitting thread where you actually had no clue how to fly/fit the ship (except for throwing more isk into it like the guy above said). So yeah, when it comes to balance posts i think Dyphos is right.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:22:00 -
[270]
Theocrafting how the ultimate ECM BS could look like:
5/8/7 5 luncher, 0 turrets
40% to ecm strenth, 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire
+ increase the sensor strength for 50% to give it a fair chance to be a hard target for counter jams(if fitted with a ECCM)
In a RR gang this would be the first faction BS that realy could make a huge diffrence, having the first realy powerfull gang faction BS(to a even bigger amount than the blood bs) on the caldari lineup.
It scales, it is powerfull for teamplay, it fills a uniqe role, it¦s compleetly fits the gang forcused caldari idea, it isn¦t a solopawnmobiele(even if I could see the mutltispec of doom comming back with it ). It would be fare more than a niche ship and fare more than a useless heavy tanking bait, plus beeing the ultimate awnser to small gang RR vs RR BS fights.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Ted Breakers
Caldari Scoopex Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:40:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:43:25 Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:40:31 How can you take ECM away from the scorp?!? Thats like taking away the domis drones Surely the idea behind these should be to have an upgraded version of the t1 variant???
It would have been fine with 1 more low slot and 1 more launcher
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:46:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Throwing vigilant at myrmidon and then whining that vigilant cant win? AFAIK it was you. Also ashimmu fitting thread where you actually had no clue how to fly/fit the ship (except for throwing more isk into it like the guy above said). So yeah, when it comes to balance posts i think Dyphos is right.
I think I embraced the most out of both ships, and started putting isk in them because I like them.
Just so you know, both ships performed well for what I wanted them to do.
Also, when half the people in a thread about a ship tell you to buy another ship, they are the ones who look bad because there are those of us willing to fly the ships and experiment with what works best.
So I think you are wrong.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:52:00 -
[273]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 05/09/2009 22:51:48 MORE COMMAND SHIPS! Since we're on the topic. Command ships with T2 battle cruiser hulls.
Hurricane hulled command ship ftw. My sig don't fracking work. |
Sanae Kensuno
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Posted - 2009.09.05 23:04:00 -
[274]
i am a caldari player and , if it is true that i am not the most experienced player in the world , it seems to me that these changes and new ships arent what we need or desire.
Honestly , the scorp has a very limited use compared to most other bs , and we are waiting for a decent multi-purpose bs , like a rokh . So , if i were you , i would release tiers 3 bs navy versions at the same time . In fact we do not ask a lot : a 'standard' elite ship with guns.We re a bit fed up with the all-caldari-ships-must-have-missiles-or-EWAR-abilities : Lots of caldari players love gunboats , me among them. The changes about the hookbill made me sad .As lots of other players said i will say the same : it is a gunboat , dont change that , please .It wanted to have one , after reading this , i dont want. I will not speack about the others factions since i dont know them well , even if the though of a navy domi frightens me a lot . Anyways thx for reading and this awesome game
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Dyphos
Pod Liberation Authority Pod Liberation Authority.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 23:10:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Dyphos on 05/09/2009 23:11:52
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I think I embraced the most out of both ships, and started putting isk in them because I like them.
Ships aren't balanced because you 'like' them. Any poor ship can be made to be mediocre if enough isk is dumped into them, I'm surprised that you haven't figured this out yet.
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Just so you know, both ships performed well for what I wanted them to do.
At being fit horribly and dying in a similar manner?
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Also, when half the people in a thread about a ship tell you to buy another ship, they are the ones who look bad because there are those of us willing to fly the ships and experiment with what works best.
I have yet to see you fit a ship in this *best* manner. Having the balls to fit an uncommon ship in pvp is one thing, it's something else entirely to fit an uncommon ship terribly and then lose it. Whining about the loss afterwards (ie: Vigilant w/ td) only backs up the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to pvp.
Like I said, I'm not trying to offend or anything. Put simply it seems CCP listens to the loudest (and richest) players on the forums. You happen to be pretty damn loud (ryskin too) and are always adamant about your terrible fits. As such new (or naive) players see this and often follow not knowing any better because they believe the more expensive the fit, the better. As a result the devs seem to be biased towards said players, gimping ships horribly simply because 1 or 2 loud people spent a fortune on something or killed a Rifter once.
With that said, CCP will release the changes they have in mind when they think they are ready to be tested. If they are good or not cannot be truly determined instantaneously simply because the *best* fits for x ships are still being improved or manipulated today. So please, we don't care if the Cynabal should be able to fill a 3bil isk niche role
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.05 23:18:00 -
[276]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers òFittings: 140 CPU, 39 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Rifter) òCapacitor: 250 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.3 cap/s) òSpeed: 410m/s, 3.2 agility òSensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Republic Fleet Firetail:
The speed bonus has been indeed removed for the bonus to small projectile turret damage, but its base speed has been increased by 15% to compensate quite a bit, and it is still the fastest of all navy frigates by far. The damage bonus puts its effective turret number to 4, while keeping 2 extra launcher slots than can also be fitted with utilities.
So... 4 turrets divided by 2x bonus is 2, plus 2 launcher/util slots is three? is this why Minmatar slot layouts are always getting screwed up, drunken maths? :P also 20m/s faster than the Slicer is hardly "by far", compared to it's current state.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 23:24:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 05/09/2009 23:25:08
Originally by: Seishi Maru Edited by: Seishi Maru on 04/09/2009 23:41:01 I really hope CCP pay attention, READ the input from this thread and notice that players are getting FED UP with their view on minmatar balance approach. Not a single race got massively negative feedback as minmatar ones? Care to guess why? Basically because the balance reasoning used upon minmatar ships has been doing NONSENSE at all! The 1st naglfar boost had to be MASSIVELY bashed by the players to CCP notice how off the spot they were.
after 4 years I've completely given up on ccp ever fixing minmatar.
I'd suggest you do the same, ccp give attention to an area based on the amount it is used... minmatar are the smallest race so they get the least attention. Even though they really really need some looking at having lost pretty much all their racial strengths over the years.
I'm sure ccp will try and fix minmatar with some random buff thrown at them eventually but I really doubt it's gonna work. They'll most likely put something together in a couple afternoons post a dev blog about it and then ignore the massive threadnaught screaming "NOOOOOOOOOO" in favour of a couple voices saying "it's all good, they'll fix the fix eventually". and this is why agile development is bad, you even have a test server with volunteers for a proper prototypng development cycle, stop with the god damn agile approach. ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 23:56:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Ted Breakers Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:43:25 Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:40:31 How can you take ECM away from the scorp?!? Thats like taking away the domis drones Surely the idea behind these should be to have an upgraded version of the t1 variant???
You REALLY want to fly a 300-400 mil ISK ecm bs boat? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.06 00:03:00 -
[279]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Gallente Navy Comet:
What is this suppose to do that a taranis can't do considerably better? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.06 00:03:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Typhado3 Edited by: Typhado3 on 05/09/2009 23:25:08
Originally by: Seishi Maru Edited by: Seishi Maru on 04/09/2009 23:41:01 I really hope CCP pay attention, READ the input from this thread and notice that players are getting FED UP with their view on minmatar balance approach. Not a single race got massively negative feedback as minmatar ones? Care to guess why? Basically because the balance reasoning used upon minmatar ships has been doing NONSENSE at all! The 1st naglfar boost had to be MASSIVELY bashed by the players to CCP notice how off the spot they were.
after 4 years I've completely given up on ccp ever fixing minmatar.
I'd suggest you do the same, ccp give attention to an area based on the amount it is used... minmatar are the smallest race so they get the least attention. Even though they really really need some looking at having lost pretty much all their racial strengths over the years.
I'm sure ccp will try and fix minmatar with some random buff thrown at them eventually but I really doubt it's gonna work. They'll most likely put something together in a couple afternoons post a dev blog about it and then ignore the massive threadnaught screaming "NOOOOOOOOOO" in favour of a couple voices saying "it's all good, they'll fix the fix eventually". and this is why agile development is bad, you even have a test server with volunteers for a proper prototypng development cycle, stop with the god damn agile approach.
people said the same about ammar. But yet we arrived on the today's eve.
Fact is that Game designers rotate in CCP and if you keep pressure someday one of them wil pay enough attention to notice what everyone else noticed already.
And minmatar has not been BAD for 4 years. 3 years ago.. back BEFORE revelation tempest was the BEST battleship. But CCP nerfing way on last few years nerfed every tactics and option minmatar relied upon.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.06 00:10:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Ted Breakers Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:43:25 Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:40:31 How can you take ECM away from the scorp?!? Thats like taking away the domis drones Surely the idea behind these should be to have an upgraded version of the t1 variant???
You REALLY want to fly a 300-400 mil ISK ecm bs boat?
If it would be a good tank, more powerfull ECM than a Falcon and BS like DPS, I would(and leave the Falcon at home for RR gangs). If you take away the weak tank form a ECM BS things would look a lot diffrent, actualy making it to very important ship in the fleet that perfectly works in a RR environment(also against other RR gangs).
Simply imgaine a ECM ship that tanks preaty hard and jams preaty hard in the same fitting, even if it sits right in front of you, it is not a easy kill and a serious improvement to a RR gang. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.09.06 00:30:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Dyphos Like I said, I'm not trying to offend or anything.
I don't whine when I lose a ship. As a matter of fact, I congratulate the guy[s] who kill me and then I move on to a new ship. I take Eve in stride, unlike some who INTERNET SPACESHIPS SRS BSNS.
I am also actually slightly offended due to your pointed accusations out of left field considering you have not even done any homework on how I fit, fly and lose ships.
So, let's drop this bickering and continue with the discussion at hand. Everybody's opinion (even yours) is relevant when it comes to this.
All I want to hear is CCP to work with their customers like they used to. They don't do that so well anymore; they have turned into poor communicators.
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Alejah Anshi
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Posted - 2009.09.06 00:49:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Butzewutze Edited by: Butzewutze on 05/09/2009 20:39:51 Cheers,
Congrats to the guy who thought that these changes would improve the Tempest FI. U clearly lack in knowledge about balancing and i really have to scratch my head why you came up with that. Maybe it would be better if u get a new position in CCP, maybe in the administration or something where you dont have to think about complicated stuff so often.
Quote:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place.
Cool, if you want to build a house you would start with the roof eh? Ever heard about getting the fundament right before adding something on top? I dont want even to start with all the things that are wrong with Minmatar (bellicose, rapier, huginn, tempest, typhoon, no way to improve range on autocannons except rigs and so on). I am 100% sure you will get all that problems fixed because you showed a clear understanding of balancing in the past.
*if u find sarcasm in this post then u can keep it*
BUMP!
Aggreed, 201%!! Sorry, you have no clue what you are doing (as always, lots of re-patches, nerves, blah blah blah).
I personaly think its VERY¦ time to think about changes BEFORE doing it!
PS: WHEN you are going to nerv the navy raven btw?
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Josh Silver
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.06 01:31:00 -
[284]
Nice job on most of them, but the Navy Scorpion makes Baby Jesus cry
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.06 01:34:00 -
[285]
I for one wanna thank CCP Ytterbium for putting up this post and letting us know that you are aware of the issue and it does seem like you are trying to find a solution. I also appreciate the fact that you are putting this up for us to read.. and unfortunately getting flamed despite this really being a test bed for possible changes, and not necessarily the final product.
Thank you again, CCP and Ytterbium.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Xavier Sunder
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Posted - 2009.09.06 01:49:00 -
[286]
As many people have pointed out, I don't see what the Navy Scorp brings to the table. Most ships have very large differences between them to mix and match strategies. A Raven/Navy Scorp/CNR are all so close together that their roles really overlap. Throw in the Rattlesnake and Golem and you have five battleships that are all slight variations on the exact same theme. I'm a full missile-torp Raven/CNR/Rattlesnake pilot, and I just wish for a little more variety in the Caldari armada.
Some other options to consider:
-Keep the standard number of launchers and giving it a solid drone bay and perhaps some bonuses. I don't know why there is a rule that good drones and good missiles are against the galactic law. But it would give Caldari pilots a greater reason to have drone skills, which like any other pilot, they need. -Specific bonuses to torps such as explosion radius and flight speed/distance. Gives another ray of hope for those on their way to Phoenix. -If this is supposed to be the versatile Caldari BS, give it a crapload of cap so it can actually run a MWD/point/shield booster/etc.
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Dina Turraga
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Posted - 2009.09.06 03:38:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Dina Turraga on 06/09/2009 03:39:49 Thank you for posting. This is a neat idea.
Please, listen to the players who fly the ships atm though, and do not take the flaming as insult. They are all little boys and you are playing with 'Their' toys...
I personally would ask you to keep the firetail and Hookbill as they are. The firetail is just neat because of its speed novelty, much more useful than a cookie cutter bonus to damage. Makes the races all seem like they have uniqueness, and specific strategies.
I also tend to agree with posts about not changing tempest fleet issue. She's a good ship.
A lot of the ECM pilots are getting frustrated at the nerfing of Ewar. Imagine playing a game where time is what makes you better, and you dedicate two months of time = $30.00 in game time to improving those characters, and the people who make the game take that time away in the form of a nerf... Would it hurt to make the fleet scorp an ECM boat? It will get primaried anyway, let her pop as she has always intended, no scorp hull boat survives primary, why break the chain?
I like that CCP is reviewing Faction ships. However, please take the time to clearly seperate the races in roles and strategies, emphasizing their strengths, and weaknesses. Not just the base code for maneuvering, targeting, and sensor strength.
I liked the fact eve was diverse, dynamic, and just plain fun. The variety in strategy between the races is the core of everything I enjoy in it. Please continue it.
<3 Dina
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.09.06 04:11:00 -
[288]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
stuffs
thx for responding ..... now we feel less ignored
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.09.06 04:53:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan Kind of bad fit, really. Neut it up, and add a point as well. with 8 slots it should have a point.
With the low scan resolution of a battleship, it should not have a point. Leave the tackling to frigs and cruisers. -- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Korako Kosakami
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.09.06 07:05:00 -
[290]
Edited by: Korako Kosakami on 06/09/2009 07:05:10 Thank you for not gimping the Navy Scorpion into a ECM role.
Fleet Tempest changes are lol though |
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.06 07:06:00 -
[291]
Bravo CCP. Another minmatar nerf and Amarr boost. -1 slot to Fleet tempest. Make a brutal Armageddon Navy Issue for Amarr. And another thing navy Geddon get + 1 slot than similar geddon, but look at the navy Phoon 8/4/7 like the simple phoon module numbers.
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Logan Xerxes
Caldari State 1st Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:17:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Ted Breakers Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:43:25 Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:40:31 How can you take ECM away from the scorp?!? Thats like taking away the domis drones Surely the idea behind these should be to have an upgraded version of the t1 variant???
It would have been fine with 1 more low slot and 1 more launcher
Originally by: Sanae Kensuno i am a caldari player and , if it is true that i am not the most experienced player in the world , it seems to me that these changes and new ships arent what we need or desire.
Honestly , the scorp has a very limited use compared to most other bs , and we are waiting for a decent multi-purpose bs , like a rokh . So , if i were you , i would release tiers 3 bs navy versions at the same time . In fact we do not ask a lot : a 'standard' elite ship with guns.We re a bit fed up with the all-caldari-ships-must-have-missiles-or-EWAR-abilities : Lots of caldari players love gunboats , me among them. The changes about the hookbill made me sad .As lots of other players said i will say the same : it is a gunboat , dont change that , please .It wanted to have one , after reading this , i dont want. I will not speack about the others factions since i dont know them well , even if the though of a navy domi frightens me a lot . Anyways thx for reading and this awesome game
Both of you shut it. It's a massive godsend to the caldari the navy Scorp. These things are going to be amazing at RR fleets.
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:24:00 -
[293]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òNew slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers òFittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
Please dont take away one of the midslots on the Fleet Tempest. With this slot layout you might aswell fly a Typhoon. What about a falloff bonus instead of the extra turret?
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Ramson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.06 10:12:00 -
[294]
Just wandering,did some of the CCP devs get bullied in school by minmatar ... why soo much serious hate ? Like it's not enough that minmatar is the most skill intensive race to even fly properly,it requires training in speed,armor,shield tanking,projectile gunnery ,missiles and drones.
And versatility mostly is very low ... and you know,you cant realy do any dmg if your dead in the first few seconds of a battle,soo all of those damage bonuses are useless if you dont have time to apply them. -------
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BiggestT
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.09.06 10:25:00 -
[295]
Wait, you incrased the quite balanced drone bay of the navy raven but gave no extra drone bay (quite needed as it loses the awesome ecm utility) to the navy scorp?
I think it should be the other way round, tho I'm excited nonetheless... EVE history
t2 precisions |
BiggestT
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.09.06 10:32:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Logan Xerxes
Originally by: Ted Breakers Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:43:25 Edited by: Ted Breakers on 05/09/2009 22:40:31 How can you take ECM away from the scorp?!? Thats like taking away the domis drones Surely the idea behind these should be to have an upgraded version of the t1 variant???
It would have been fine with 1 more low slot and 1 more launcher
Originally by: Sanae Kensuno i am a caldari player and , if it is true that i am not the most experienced player in the world , it seems to me that these changes and new ships arent what we need or desire.
Honestly , the scorp has a very limited use compared to most other bs , and we are waiting for a decent multi-purpose bs , like a rokh . So , if i were you , i would release tiers 3 bs navy versions at the same time . In fact we do not ask a lot : a 'standard' elite ship with guns.We re a bit fed up with the all-caldari-ships-must-have-missiles-or-EWAR-abilities : Lots of caldari players love gunboats , me among them. The changes about the hookbill made me sad .As lots of other players said i will say the same : it is a gunboat , dont change that , please .It wanted to have one , after reading this , i dont want. I will not speack about the others factions since i dont know them well , even if the though of a navy domi frightens me a lot . Anyways thx for reading and this awesome game
Both of you shut it. It's a massive godsend to the caldari the navy Scorp. These things are going to be amazing at RR fleets.
If they reduce the horrible cpu req's for shield rr then I'd agree this would be awesome.. EVE history
t2 precisions |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.06 11:21:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 06/09/2009 07:17:23 Bravo CCP. Another minmatar nerf and Amarr boost. -1 mid slot for Fleet tempest. Make a brutal Armageddon Navy Issue for Amarr. And another thing navy Geddon get + 1 slot than similar geddon, but look at the navy Phoon 8/4/7 like the simple phoon module numbers.
Navy Dominix a joke too. 5% capacitor like the old fashion "amarr ships" ? An useless bonus for the drone users again, when they not got drone impant or usable drone rigs etc ? Why not using your grey matters dear CCP ?
5%/level drone optimal range not better or control range or something drone bonus? But 5% capacitor hahahahaha. I dont know why ? A simple dominix have enough cap with 1 CCC rig.
All the bonuses are SHIP stat bonuses. They are not % per level bonuses so they could not give extra bonus to drones for example, neither to falloff. They can only change ships attributes or change the existing bonuses.
Problem with dominix is, its hard to boost it without making it overpowered :( If they gave it an 8th low slot it would be tooo powerful :(
What they could have made is give it more fittings to use properly the guns. And change the DAMAGE bonus to rof bonus.. that would push people to use it with blasters.... ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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RedSplat
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.06 11:27:00 -
[298]
Just thought i'd pop in and say:
Tracking Boni are useless on Frigates.
They are a wasted bonus. Give the Firetail its speed back.
Utility highs are Useless on Frigates.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Rhak Amharr
Minmatar Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.09.06 11:55:00 -
[299]
Originally by: RedSplat Just thought i'd pop in and say:
Tracking Boni are useless on Frigates.
They are a wasted bonus. Give the Firetail its speed back.
Utility highs are Useless on Frigates.
While I agree that double damage bonus can be better, you're dumb.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.06 12:02:00 -
[300]
Firts important thing dear CCP. Logic.
All same class ships had equal slots number sum. But now just look at this.
Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Amarr 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows = 20 slots Caldari 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots = 19 slots Gallente 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots = 19 slots Minmatar 8 high, 4 med, 7 low = 19 slots
Why got Amarr +1 slots, when their BS ships too overpowered ? Because too many amarr pilot cry for +1 mid slot ? The amarr ships not need boost like other BSs as the crapy matar or others.
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Count Helmchen
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Posted - 2009.09.06 13:03:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Firts important thing dear CCP. Logic.
All same class ships had equal slots number sum. But now just look at this.
Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Amarr 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows = 20 slots Caldari 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots = 19 slots Gallente 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots = 19 slots Minmatar 8 high, 4 med, 7 low = 19 slots
Why got Amarr +1 slots, when their BS ships too overpowered ? Because too many amarr pilot cry for +1 mid slot ? The amarr ships not need boost like other BSs as the crapy matar or others.
sounds logical!
besides, current bs slot layout on tq is:
tier I geddon 19 scorp 18 domi 18 phoon 19
either the scorp & domi are missing one slot or the others have one to much ....
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.06 13:17:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Amarr 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows = 20 slots Caldari 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots = 19 slots Gallente 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots = 19 slots Minmatar 8 high, 4 med, 7 low = 19 slots Why got Amarr +1 slots, when their BS ships too overpowered ? Because too many amarr pilot cry for +1 mid slot ? The amarr ships not need boost like other BSs as the crapy matar or others.
One should not look at the total number here. For instance, the geddon only has 7 turret slots and a utility slot. So it does not make it overpowered.
What is important is the change in each from it's base issue version. Each of these ships got another slot Amarr +1mid, Caldari +1high, Gallente +1 mid. It is interesting to see the split of opinion among those that fly mainly Caldari as to the removal of ecm from it. We certainly don't need stronger ecm in the game. I have not focused on the changes so will not comment.
However, CCP, Typhoon getting 5/5 hardpoints does not make up for not getting an additional slot. Honestly you could have kept the 4/4 split and given it another mid or low. If you are worried about nanophoons again with the speed addition then just make it a mid. (not that the former nanophoon could be created again). Even the 5/5 split, the speed and agility buff and a mid slot would not make this ship out of balance. If you have to remove any of those my preference in order would be, reduce the speed addition, then maybe the 5/5, but please give the ship +1 slot compared to it's base version like the other ships get. |
Lux Draconis
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Posted - 2009.09.06 13:24:00 -
[303]
Tempest Fleet Issue:
ò New slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers ò Fittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
Nooooooooooooooo CCP !!!!!!!! NO ! No 5 Med Slots !!!!
Tempest is Shield Tank !! Why 5 Meds?
Dann kann man gleich aufs Schiff *******en...wird doch eh nur als Missirunner benutzt ! Das sind keine verbesserungen bei Minmatar sonder erhebliche verschlechterungen...und das soll T2 sein???
Lasst die Finger von der Tempest..besser ist es, sonst wandert sie in den Mnll !
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 13:24:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 13:25:40
Originally by: Count Helmchen
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Firts important thing dear CCP. Logic.
All same class ships had equal slots number sum. But now just look at this.
Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Amarr 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows = 20 slots Caldari 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots = 19 slots Gallente 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots = 19 slots Minmatar 8 high, 4 med, 7 low = 19 slots
Why got Amarr +1 slots, when their BS ships too overpowered ? Because too many amarr pilot cry for +1 mid slot ? The amarr ships not need boost like other BSs as the crapy matar or others.
sounds logical!
besides, current bs slot layout on tq is:
tier I geddon 19 scorp 18 domi 18 phoon 19
either the scorp & domi are missing one slot or the others have one to much ....
domi always had one less due to drones being OP at some point in the past. scorp - no idea tbh.
still its not only with tier 1 BS. when it comes to tier 1 BC they also have different amount of slots (cyclone +1 over rest). and sleipnir keeps the cyclone's +1 slot too.
as for navy ships: its either + weapons over normal ship or + slots.
geddon got slot, domi got slot (so they are still comparable to each other), phoon got weapon slot (no med/lowslot then). no idea whats with scorpion again. cant remember why it had 1 less slot to begin with and changing its role... duh its totally screwed up.
IMO (and im not flying matari, just observing em a lot) phoon could do with 4/4 weapons and 8/5/7 layout. With bonuses it is able to work like mini-panther/mini-nanophoon.
Still thx to +1 turret/launcher it gets nice damage. 5x siege, 3x 800mm (2x bcu) + 5x ogre nets 1200dps.
With 5x 800's + 2x gyro + 3x siege + 5x ogre it gets 1050. Siege is the way to go i guess.
Quote: What is important is the change in each from it's base issue version. Each of these ships got another slot Amarr +1mid, Caldari +1high, Gallente +1 mid. It is interesting to see the split of opinion among those that fly mainly Caldari as to the removal of ecm from it. We certainly don't need stronger ecm in the game. I have not focused on the changes so will not comment.
Im not the all round caldari pilot myself (only on alt but thats raven, cerb, falcon and drake mostly) but tbh on faction ship you could go with a bit better ecm. its not like you will see them in every engagement.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.06 13:27:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Count Helmchen besides, current bs slot layout on tq is: tier I geddon 19 scorp 18 domi 18 phoon 19 either the scorp & domi are missing one slot or the others have one to much ....
There is nothing wrong here. Are you new to the game? The Domi does not lack for damage potential or tanking because of it's huge dronebay and bonus to it. The Scorp does not lack, being the only ew BS in the game and having the best ew (I would still argue overpowered ew, because if you are jammed you can do absolutely nothing but leave if possible, and where is the skill that increases sensor integrity, there is one for sensor range and speed) bonused. They are essentially balanced atm, other than projectiles being weak.
Again what is important is the change between the base tier 1 BS and it's navy version.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.06 13:40:00 -
[306]
I don't want an ECM Navy Scorpion. We have enough ECM boats in game, they have fairly well-defined roles and I don't see the need for another.
You could argue that a close-range ECM-torp-Scorp brawler is desirable - and you'd be right. But a faction ship isn't really the place for a weak-tanked insta-primary such as a close-range ECM ship - especially given the impossibility of RR shield BS gangs because of the absolutely moronic CPU requirements of Shield Transfers.
Having the Navy Scorp as a missile boat, however, doesn't make much sense either. We have plenty of shield-tanked missile BS already. The Raven is a cheap gank boat. The CNR is an expensive supergank boat. The Golem is focused on active tanking. So far, so good.
But after this we run into problems. The Rattlesnake has no role and is basically just a Raven with an extra lowslot, as it doesn't have the fittings to use its hybrid bonus and would only ever fit two turrets even if it could. There's no actual Gallente influence here - it's basically just another Caldari shield-tanked missile BS, just a Raven with an extra lowslot.
The proposed Navy Scorp is just a CNR with a bit less gank and more tank. It's boring. We already have four shield-tanked missile BS (Rattler, Raven, CNR, Golem), we don't need another. As seen with the revised Hookbill, CCP seems keen to focus on missiles, overlooking the Caldari railboat line - it's like ignoring Gallente's focus on blasters. The only problem here is that a Navy Scorp railboat would ideally have an optimal and shield resist bonus - basically making it a Rokh. I don't know where I'm going with this any more.
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fab24
Gallente Order of Anarchy The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2009.09.06 14:13:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Firts important thing dear CCP. Logic.
All same class ships had equal slots number sum. But now just look at this.
Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Amarr 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows = 20 slots Caldari 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots = 19 slots Gallente 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots = 19 slots Minmatar 8 high, 4 med, 7 low = 19 slots
Why got Amarr +1 slots, when their BS ships too overpowered ? Because too many amarr pilot cry for +1 mid slot ? The amarr ships not need boost like other BSs as the crapy matar or others.
amarr = +1 slot caldari = +1 slot gallente = +1 slot matar = +0 slots (but they got +1 turret/launcher)
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Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.09.06 14:21:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Rhak Amharr
Originally by: RedSplat Just thought i'd pop in and say:
Tracking Boni are useless on Frigates.
They are a wasted bonus. Give the Firetail its speed back.
Utility highs are Useless on Frigates.
While I agree that double damage bonus can be better, you're dumb.
Originally by: Queue K'Umber It is unseemly when a player becomes a self-congratulatory poastaholic
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McEivalley
Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.06 15:50:00 -
[309]
Edited by: McEivalley on 06/09/2009 15:53:03 I see you haven't touched the t1 cruiser hulls, which I'm not sure I'm happy or sad about. Especially the abomination you called Caldari Navy Osprey, which you also promptly nerfed (and I thought that was impossible to nerf that ship, but hey!) with the nano nerf. From a tackling 4.5km/s light cruiser you made it into a garbage can with... who cares really, huh?
Anyways, regarding what you actually have posted:
All the t1 frigs look even worse than before. Why wouldn't you give the Hookbill a true purpose instead of making it a very expensive cross between a slow crow and a buffer hawk (which is, basically, lol-inbound-comedy-loss). The Slicer with 2 lasers and an incredible 125% bonus sounds sweetpie at first, till you find out - yet again - that it has 2 med slots. :facepalm: I won't comment on the other 2 as I've never flawn them, but from EFT warrioring I share the tears mini pilots will cry over the death of the faction ceptor. I'm quite sure that the paper-thin firetail will do much better with its new bonuses (NOT!)
The rest, on a glance, looks like eye candy for mission runners. So it does on a second glance. GG.
Edit - wrote "Harpy" instead of "Hawk" when I addressed the Hookbill. I wish it was more harpy than hawk.
Insert clever remark where? |
Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.09.06 15:54:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Lili Lu
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Amarr 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows = 20 slots Caldari 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots = 19 slots Gallente 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots = 19 slots Minmatar 8 high, 4 med, 7 low = 19 slots Why got Amarr +1 slots, when their BS ships too overpowered ? Because too many amarr pilot cry for +1 mid slot ? The amarr ships not need boost like other BSs as the crapy matar or others.
One should not look at the total number here. For instance, the geddon only has 7 turret slots and a utility slot. So it does not make it overpowered.
What is important is the change in each from it's base issue version. Each of these ships got another slot Amarr +1mid, Caldari +1high, Gallente +1 mid. It is interesting to see the split of opinion among those that fly mainly Caldari as to the removal of ecm from it. We certainly don't need stronger ecm in the game. I have not focused on the changes so will not comment.
However, CCP, Typhoon getting 5/5 hardpoints does not make up for not getting an additional slot. Honestly you could have kept the 4/4 split and given it another mid or low. If you are worried about nanophoons again with the speed addition then just make it a mid. (not that the former nanophoon could be created again). Even the 5/5 split, the speed and agility buff and a mid slot would not make this ship out of balance. If you have to remove any of those my preference in order would be, reduce the speed addition, then maybe the 5/5, but please give the ship +1 slot compared to it's base version like the other ships get.
B*ll****. Just 7 high slot + heavy drones + 8 low and they can use 3 heatsink and get 1300 DPS with good tanking ability ? How mutch the new Domi 700 ? How mutch the new Scorp 700 ? The new Phoon ? Oh now you can use on ship +1 gun or missile with no PG ? Oh yes i'm so pride for nothing. Oh i remember a dev blog when a CCP worker give a question ? "Dear players who knows why dont buy the players Matar ship ?" That was the idiot of years question.
And what want to do with crapy fleet tempest 800 ? They will give to tempest +1 gun slot but they have just 6 low = no tank, no gyrostab and lost a mid slot like ECCM or other modules (we know matar craps against the ECM)
What will happen now with navy geddon ? The overpowered long range pulses (+40km + 1 sec ammo reload) ships can using now MWD !!! MWD + sensor booster + web + Cap booster.
Fck CCP.
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Spc Three
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Posted - 2009.09.06 15:59:00 -
[311]
Edited by: Spc Three on 06/09/2009 15:59:19
Quote: Yitters, why does my precious Navy Domi not use 10 Ogre IIs at once, instead of 5?
Because there's a skill called Drone Interfacing that when on 5 gives you 100% bonus damage on drones. So if you control 5 drones *2 (100%) je 10 drones. If you would control 10 drones that would mean that you're doing the same damage as you would with 20 drones.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 16:05:00 -
[312]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 16:07:07 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 16:04:56
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
B*ll****. Just 7 high slot + heavy drones + 8 low and they can use 3 heatsink and get 1300 DPS with good tanking ability ?
1700 dps!!!!! even 2500!!!
no, it does 1172 with 3 sinks + AN multi. yet most geddons will run on 2 sinks doing 1077.
Quote:
How mutch the new Domi 700 ?
The same as old. 6x electron blaster + 2x magstab (if 3x sink geddon the i guess only response is 2x magstab domi) 1099dps. difference 73dps. domi still has 2 free midslots over armageddon to fit whatever he wants.
Quote:
How mutch the new Scorp 700 ?
Now compare passive/buffer tank. You cant get everything, sorry.
Quote:
The new Phoon ? Oh now you can use on ship +1 gun or missile with no PG ?
The new phoon does around 1200dps (can be arsed to count it again now, was 1200+-15dps) with 5x siege, 3x 800mm, 2x bcu and 5x ogre. Still has enough grid for mwd/mwd injector (thats what geddon fits fyi) and plates.
So get your facts straight and stop exaggerating before you post in balance threads.
EDIT: actually my bad, phoon has to downgrade few guns
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 16:16:00 -
[313]
did scorpion for comparison. does 861 (5x siege, 5x hammer) with 2 bcu, 949 with 3 bcu. all this while sporting full 8 midslot tank if he wants so.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.06 16:51:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire no, it does 1172 with 3 sinks + AN multi
Quote: 5x siege, 3x dual 650 t2, 5x ogre 2x bcu = 1193dps
after MWD it has almost 2000grid left for lowslots + tank + injector
TBH, the Geddon is getting the sweet side of this deal. It drops 20 DPS for way more range (this is/can be important) and not requiring a target painter to deal full damage to battleships. The second is a non-trivial point. IMO, the Fleet Phoon should get an extra mid for a target painter.
However, regardless of that: a Hvy Cap Booster II requires 1925 grid, which doesn't leave enough grid to even fit a plate... and a LAR is just out of the question. I'm pretty meh to the new phoon, and the new fleet pest is CCP slapping all Minmatar pilots in the face. And then spitting in there eye.
Navy Geddon = pure sex. Fleet Phoon/Pest = marginally insulting. Guess what I'm training right now?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 16:55:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Deva Blackfire no, it does 1172 with 3 sinks + AN multi
Quote: 5x siege, 3x dual 650 t2, 5x ogre 2x bcu = 1193dps
after MWD it has almost 2000grid left for lowslots + tank + injector
TBH, the Geddon is getting the sweet side of this deal. It drops 20 DPS for way more range (this is/can be important) and not requiring a target painter to deal full damage to battleships. The second is a non-trivial point. IMO, the Fleet Phoon should get an extra mid for a target painter.
However, regardless of that: a Hvy Cap Booster II requires 1925 grid, which doesn't leave enough grid to even fit a plate... and a LAR is just out of the question. I'm pretty meh to the new phoon, and the new fleet pest is CCP slapping all Minmatar pilots in the face. And then spitting in there eye.
Neither can geddon fit heavy cap booster (if uses heavy neut) + lar, so where is the problem? Also "capless weapons". And more speed to close the gap. I know grass is always greener on other side but those 2 are quite comparable. Always been.
And if you really want to go for lar or even dual lar - degrade guns to cruiser size (leave sieges) like everyone else does. Geddon cant do this unfortunately.
Plus in apocrypha 1,5 ccp gave nice boost to torp users: combat boosters work on torpedo sig radius.
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Schwester Minotaur
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Posted - 2009.09.06 17:13:00 -
[316]
where is the navy rokh ?
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.06 17:54:00 -
[317]
The navy phoon is pretty much an insult (and it quite nicely shows the state of large projectiles - see the first setup posted, 5 siege), and the navy tempest is laughable.
The navy domi looks like the next mission boat (may just obsolete the kronos). Navy geddon looks like a good mission boat too, but great for pvp as well, especially if prices scale with the tier 2s. I will be buying one. I must agree with Merin about the scorpion - tank is not a role in PVP unless it comes with significant damage. Something that affects the maelstrom to a lesser degree.
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2009.09.06 17:57:00 -
[318]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns.
Imperial Navy Slicer:
The 25% bonus to small energy turret is not a typo; this ship has the equivalent of 4.5 unbonused turrets which compensates for other drawbacks, like its relative low CPU or only two mid slots.
I'm only really concerned about the looks, two turrets vs three turrets, I'd go for three anytime - especially with the close-up view/camera on frigates! Very pleasing to the eyes after spending millions on a special ship ;) Two turrets is like having two e-Balls but no peen, so I'd choose a capacitor bonus on energy turrets over an additional damage bonus. ^_^ Pew!
This '09 Whine was sponsored by Care-Cola! The Carebear drink of choice.
Unfortunately, your signature is not 22239 bytes, it exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches I fail, regards to Cortes - Ulvi |
Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:01:00 -
[319]
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 06/09/2009 18:04:51
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Lies
Geddon 1200 DPS what i want to wrote.
Oh yeah you can fit 5 neutron blaster for domi, but u can't fitting fine if he do it, but geddon have full fitt ? Can't using the new geddon heavy neuts with MWD because no PG ? U could see the +PGs for new navy geddons (+ engineering rise up the final attribs) bonus.
U tried fitting the Phoon with full weapons ? U cant do it same, because not enough PG too. Maybe u tried in EFT with guns and damage modules. LOL With all lvl5 now 4 siege 3 1600plate mwd cap booster 2 neuts eating all PG, but you say +1 siege and +3 guns. Oh man. Try flying with phoon first.
Nice try, but just lies.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:15:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 06/09/2009 18:04:51
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Lies
If you say that i lie - BRING PROOF.
Quote:
Oh yeah you can fit 5 neutron blaster for domi, but u can't fitting fine if he do it, but geddon have full fitt ?
I wrote electrons didnt i? No geddon doesnt have "full fit". If you run on megapulses you can fit only: mwd, heavy injector (no neut) and no tank (plates will not fit). If you want neut or plates you need to downgrade to dual heavy pulses. Navy geddon can fit some plates but still cant fit heavy neut without downgrading.
Quote:
Can't using the new geddon heavy neuts with MWD because no PG ? U could see the +PGs for new navy geddons (+ engineering rise up the final attribs) bonus.
As above.
Quote:
U tried fitting the Phoon with full weapons ? U cant do it same, because not enough PG too.
And why on earth would you use 800's which use 2200grid when you can use dual 650's which use 1400 (or 1600 cant remember) grid and lose like 15 dps total? Bigger =/= better.
For you, because i guess being smart is not everyones attribute: 5x siege, 3x dual 650 t2 = 12726 pg mwd, medium injector, 2x 1600mm rt = 2400 pg total = 15126 grid. navy phoon has 16406.25. with a bit of tweaking you can even fit heavy injector.
what were you saying again?
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:20:00 -
[321]
and for comparison:
Navy armageddon: 7x megapulse, heavy unstable neut 100mn mwd, medium cap injector 2x 1600mm rt
total grid used: 21727 total grid on ship: 21625
result? you need to DOWNGRADE gun, same as you do on phoon
with 6x megapulse + 1x dhp you get 20737 grid use. Enough to fit 1 more 1600mm plate (i would go with 3x 1600mm anyway). result? same as phoon.
DPS 1155.
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Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:31:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire lies again
Man u see it what i'm wrote. The new geddons can using because got with bonuses +PGs. (+1060 with bonuses) With electrochemical heavy cap booster u can fit + mwd and heavy unstable neut. (full passive armor tank, no rep) Now how using the pilots with rep and neuts the geddon ? With dual pulse. So u lies.
Domi, talk again idiot things.
Oh i see u can try again a new fit with 2x 1600 and now just 650 guns other useless **** fit. Nice try again. Maybe u want to try with fitting with small guns for good fitting, thats will be fine for u smart guy.
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Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:36:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire and for comparison:
Navy armageddon: 7x megapulse, heavy unstable neut 100mn mwd, medium cap injector 2x 1600mm rt
total grid used: 21727 total grid on ship: 21625
result? you need to DOWNGRADE gun, same as you do on phoon
with 6x megapulse + 1x dhp you get 20737 grid use. Enough to fit 1 more 1600mm plate (i would go with 3x 1600mm anyway). result? same as phoon.
DPS 1155.
U matematic genius 7x mega + unstable neut 100mn mwd + heavy electichemical cap booster + web + disruptor 3x 1600 Trimark + damage control + 2x heat sink + anm
Enough for 21850 PG. Maybe ur skill is hit and u never heard AWIU and other skills.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:38:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 18:43:17
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Deva Blackfire lies again
Man u see it what i'm wrote. The new geddons can using because got with bonuses +PGs. (+1060 with bonuses) With electrochemical heavy cap booster u can fit + mwd and heavy unstable neut. (full passive armor tank, no rep) Now how using the pilots with rep and neuts the geddon ? With dual pulse. So u lies.
Didnt it happen to you that i used NAVY ARMAGEDDON STATS ? yes it is AN GEDDON grid. go check yourself and stop making idiot out of yourself. again.
Quote:
Domi, talk again idiot things.
Oh i see u can try again a new fit with 2x 1600 and now just 650 guns other useless **** fit. Nice try again. Maybe u want to try with fitting with small guns for good fitting, thats will be fine for u smart guy.
Actually dual LAR + heavy injector phoons used to run 4x siege + 3x 425mm guns (cruiser sized). So learn how to play before you insult someone. Coz as i can see all you can do is fit largest guns and whine you dont have grid. I wonder when you will whine that phoon cant fit 4x siege + 4x 1600mm arti.
Quote: U matematic genius 7x mega + unstable neut 100mn mwd + heavy electichemical cap booster + web + disruptor 3x 1600 Trimark + damage control + 2x heat sink + anm
Enough for 21685 PG. Maybe ur skill is sh*t and u never heard AWU lvl5 and other skills.
Ill even calculate it for you because you are clearly idiot and mathematically inept: 7x mega: 7x 0,75(awu5)x 2750 grid = 7x 2475 = 17325 100mn mwd = 1250 heavy electrochemical = 1750 3x 1600mm rt = 3x 500 = 1500
17325 + 1250 + 1750 + 1500 = 21825. 21825 is MORE than 21685. It is actually MORE than 21656.25 which is actual grid for navy geddon AFTER skills. So again: what were you saying?
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Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:42:00 -
[325]
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 06/09/2009 18:44:15
Originally by: Deva Blackfire idiotism again and again
Man use ur brain and see it urself. That grid enough for mwd neut and heavy neuts. Idiot.
Whine man now just 4 siege missile with smaller guns ? How about u liar +1000 dps ?
Man maybe u did this changes ? Perhaps. But u need to learn more matematics and more learning from eve and ship.
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Sylvaen
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:42:00 -
[326]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Dominix Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) òCapacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:46:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Whine man now just 4 siege missile with smaller guns ? How about u liar +1000 dps ?
Man maybe u did this changes ? Perhaps. But u need to learn more matematics and more learning from eve and ship.
You already shown that you have no clue how to do simple mathematics like addition or multiplication. And now you are also showing that you have no clue about reading comprehension either.
Here above im talking about normal typhoon not navy issue which anyone can guess by:
Quote: Actually dual LAR + heavy injector phoons used to run 4x siege + 3x 425mm guns (cruiser sized).
Past tense = something that happened already. Only normal typhoon is in game thus it happened with normal phoon THUS you cant read. So seriously go get a life, get a rest, get laid or whatever. because you are clearly talking nonsense.
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Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:54:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire blalabla again Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Hey man first thing u need. Fly with ship and fitting them, without EFT, maybe if u learn skills maybe u will fitt the ships fine. :D
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 18:57:00 -
[329]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 18:57:20
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Deva Blackfire blalabla again Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Hey man first thing u need. Fly with ship and fitting them, without EFT, maybe if u learn skills maybe u will fitt the ships fine. :D
sure i already did. 324 kills on tri killboard, total around 400-450. and thats with geddon alone
your known ships include 1 dominix kill, 1 dominix lost, merlin, kestrel and ibis loss. Again: you were saying something?
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.06 19:01:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 18:57:20
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Deva Blackfire blalabla again Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Hey man first thing u need. Fly with ship and fitting them, without EFT, maybe if u learn skills maybe u will fitt the ships fine. :D
sure i already did. 324 kills on tri killboard, total around 400-450. and thats with geddon alone
your known ships include 1 dominix kill, 1 dominix lost, merlin, kestrel and ibis loss. Again: you were saying something?
Oh noooo. A topkiller who did 300 kill and so smart. What an idiot. Man many players did over 3-4k kill here, and not want to see it so smart like you. Worts thing, when an idiota want to see for others too smart.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.06 19:03:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 19:10:01 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 19:05:25
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
STFU you fcking idiot whine alt.
and who are you actually? plus its my main, you would know if you bothered to check
aaaand the one whining here is you. You got facts, you respond with random drivel.
Plus im also quite happy with level of responses here. "idiot" "****" "****ing". Did you run out of arguments? Wait... you never posted any to begin with. Grow up and learn how to discuss maybe then i will take you seriously.
Quote: Oh noooo. A topkiller who did 300 kill and so smart. What an idiot. Man many players did over 3-4k kill here, and not want to see it so smart like you.
actually a bit over 4000. 3,2k on battleclinic. so up yours
@ Seishi discussion means both side understand each other and put out arguments. Problems start when one side either starts namecalling (which is not an argument) or starts putting fake data. Its hard to discuss about arma fitting if s1 states that "it does OMGWTF damage and fits EVERYTHING". Neither OMGWTF (put any number you wish, which isnt true) nor EVERYTHING is actual argument. Politicians might use this but then politicians arent balancing anything, just geting flock to vote on them.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.06 19:07:00 -
[332]
There is too many people here calling each other idiots.. maybe you should all go open a thread for yourselves show your lovbe to each other in another forum?
Don 't give CCP a reason to simply close this thread and ignore all the feedback.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.09.06 19:24:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Seishi Maru There is too many people here calling each other idiots.. maybe you should all go open a thread for yourselves show your lovbe to each other in another forum?
Don 't give CCP a reason to simply close this thread and ignore all the feedback.
Indeed
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.09.06 20:05:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Dina Turraga
I personally would ask you to keep the firetail and Hookbill as they are. The firetail is just neat because of its speed novelty, much more useful than a cookie cutter bonus to damage. Makes the races all seem like they have uniqueness, and specific strategies.
yea novelty, really nice
ah well, the moment I trained frig 5 I wrote off faction frigs as novelty and haven't looked back yet.
Originally by: Logan Xerxes
Both of you shut it. It's a massive godsend to the caldari the navy Scorp. These things are going to be amazing at RR fleets.
no you, the navy scorp isn't going to be any better then a rohk, or a standard raven. hell bring a cnr if you want to bring a faction ship.
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Firts important thing dear CCP. Logic.
All same class ships had equal slots number sum. But now just look at this.
Navy Tier 1 Battleships:
Amarr 8 high, 4 med, 8 lows = 20 slots Caldari 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots = 19 slots Gallente 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots = 19 slots Minmatar 8 high, 4 med, 7 low = 19 slots
Why got Amarr +1 slots, when their BS ships too overpowered ? Because too many amarr pilot cry for +1 mid slot ? The amarr ships not need boost like other BSs as the crapy matar or others.
domi is a drone ship and is gimped a slot accordingly. navy scorp sucks anyways, don't think a slot would help it anyways. as for the minmatar, sure it could use another slot.
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2009.09.06 20:20:00 -
[335]
this thread has been cleaned. Please refrain from personal attacks.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Alana Blazing
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Posted - 2009.09.06 20:32:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Sylvaen
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Dominix Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) òCapacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
Indeed the domi realy needs 400 calibration to fit two sentry rigs. Otherwise the navy version is useless as a normal domi will outdps it for pve. And since the navy Version will be rather pricy most ppl will not use it for pvp.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.06 20:47:00 -
[337]
Edited by: Soporo on 06/09/2009 20:49:04
Quote: Scorpion Nvy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
In one sentence you decry your own tendancy to create split weapons layout and then you create a new Scorp with 5/4??
Make the new Scorp 6/3 ffs, please! Not that anyone uses Cruise anymore, particularly for pvp.
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Ramson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:07:00 -
[338]
I have a brilliant idea tbh,since CCP seems to love minmatar soo much ... why not just remove the entire race and ships from the game,saves alot of time because the devs wont be soo busy giving them all that love and can focus on buffing the other ships. -------
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:22:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Ramson I have a brilliant idea tbh,since CCP seems to love minmatar soo much ... why not just remove the entire race and ships from the game,saves alot of time because the devs wont be soo busy giving them all that love and can focus on buffing the other ships.
Then someone else will be the worst, and their pilots will gnash their teeth in despair too... until they're removed, and eventually we end up with one race. I'd rather there was a dev who actually *liked* minmatar, though.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.09.06 22:38:00 -
[340]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 06/09/2009 22:44:22
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns.
Imperial Navy Slicer:
The 25% bonus to small energy turret is not a typo; this ship has the equivalent of 4.5 unbonused turrets which compensates for other drawbacks, like its relative low CPU or only two mid slots.
I'm only really concerned about the looks, two turrets vs three turrets, I'd go for three anytime - especially with the close-up view/camera on frigates! Very pleasing to the eyes after spending millions on a special ship ;) Two turrets is like having two e-Balls but no peen, so I'd choose a capacitor bonus on energy turrets over an additional damage bonus. ^_^ Pew!
This '09 Whine was sponsored by Care-Cola! The Carebear drink of choice.
I too am concerned by this; I was looking at my navy slicer earlier today and realized that there's no good way to take a turret off of it and still have it look good. Take off the front one and it's way too back-heavy and looks bad; take off the top one and it looks sunken, since the two wingy bits are set lower than the middle bit and the two bottom guns are set even lower than that. I guess the solution is to take the ones off of the engine pods on the side; I think that way the bottom will still be wider than the top and then it doesn't look back-heavy.
(P.S. i absolutely love everything about the new slicer; range bonus + high speed + lasers means I get to fly my old pulse crusader again!) __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.09.06 23:59:00 -
[341]
Hookbill could use a bit more grid to squeeze a decent SML fitting on there. Not counting rockets as an option because you seem to enjoy keeping them, and by extension every ship that uses them, broken.
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Carl Mauser
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.07 00:50:00 -
[342]
I realy love the changes on Typhoon and upcoming Republic Fleet Typhoon. It makes sense to exchange Shield -> Armor HP since the ship is intended as armortank (also Rupture and Hurricane have more Armor then Shield). The additional 25m¦ Dronebay space is very welcome, so one can use a complete set of Light, Medium and Heavy Drones now. Also increased speed and agility makes it even more juicy. The 5/5 weapon slots in my opinion were not realy necessary, but a concession toward those players who notorious want to put a weaponfocus on a ship which in fact wasn't intended to have that
Regarding the Fleet Tempest, I share the same point of view as most others here. The stated changes are a step backward and renders that ship useless or as "decoration". I used to fly Tempest as passive Shield Tank, but as it looks, you'll cut it out. Maybe an option would be to change the Maelstrom into an Sniper (as the other Races Tier 3 BS) and move the Shield Boost Bonus to the Tempest with 6 med and 5 lows?
In any ways, thanks for your great efforts to further improve this game as always
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Cheekything
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 03:32:00 -
[343]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Dominix Navy Issue:
Much love :D
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FURY EG
The Corrupt
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Posted - 2009.09.07 03:34:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Sylvaen
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
Originally by: Alana Blazing
Indeed the domi realy needs 400 calibration to fit two sentry rigs. Otherwise the navy version is useless as a normal domi will outdps it for pve. And since the navy Version will be rather pricy most ppl will not use it for pvp.
All faction BS have 350 calibration, why the hell they should make an exception to dominix? Because u want 2 sentry rigs, lol?
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.07 04:27:00 -
[345]
When the tier 1 navy cruisers were introduced, CCP stated split weapons were bad, but the Scythe got them anyway, because it somehow mysteriously suddenly worked.
Now, again the same statement, and what is the result? Increased Phoon versatility. Srsly? Being crap at two things doesn't make up for being good at 1.
Typhoon, tech 1: - Finally those stats were swapped. :thumbs up:
Firetail: - Minmatar once was the fastest race. It was a racial trait. The 50%+ speed advantage of the base ship got lost, the 5%/lvl speed bonus was integrated at level 3 (why did the Navy Apoc get its cap amount bonus at lvl 5 and not 3?). It now sports a whopping 20m/s advantage to the Slicer, but has 2 less low slots -> in all practical situations, it will be slower. - Minmatar once was the race with the smallest signature, allowing them to migitate damage by signature and speed to make up for the weaker tank. It is 2m smaller than the next competitor, but overall the margin shrunk over the years (or came camouflaged as a shipbonus -> Hyena). Every race's ship kept its size in the faction upgrade, but the Minmatar Firetail, which is supposed to have a small signature as one of its few advantages, is 1m bigger than the Rifter. - Minmatar is the race with the weakest sensor. Negative racial trait, we kept it. - Minmatar is the race with the shortest lockrange. Negative racial trait, we kept it. - Minmatar is the race with the weakest base capacitor. Negative racial trait, we kept it. - Minmatar was the race with the highest scan resolution. Both Caldari and Gallente got more (560mm vs 580mm / 600mm) - Minmatar is th race with the lowest hitpoint amount. Negative racial trait, we kept it. - It gets a .1 agility advantage, but as that depends on the ship's mass which wasn't published, one cannot comment on it. But since Minmatar ships are now the heaviest and all the other races t1 base frigates have inertia modifiers between 3.49 and 4.21 - now 3.3 - this looks like another hit in the guts.
Summary: everywhere Minmatar is traditionally weak, the new Firetail stayed weak. Everywhere Minmatar is traditionally strong, the new Firetail either got nerfed directly or the competitors got boosted substantially. But you moved a high slot to a med slot. Fitting adjustment for this -weapon +ew_module is +1pg +15cpu . Minmatar versatility got served by keeping the split weapon hardpoints, allowing 2 unbonused weapons to be fit instead of 1. I do not see the boost.
Fleet Tempest: - alot of good / correct critism already in this topic - it loses one of its two utility high slots, which really are the last thing the tempest hull has - it loses a medslot and with it: -- the ability to decently shieldtank -- the ability to fit two utility ew mods to compensate for their reduced effectiveness on non-bonused plattforms (or fit utility-ew + eccm or double-eccm) - it gains another bonused weapon, but this falls short as an unbonused siege launcher isn't far behind, reducing the actual dps upgrade vastly
Summary: I sold the Fleet Pest I had because the scenarios in which it provided an edge were too theoretical. This seems worse. Btw, the combination of a mid-slot removal with a cpu increase for no additional fieldable weapon (8 then, 8 now) has to be the sneakiest stealth admission of utterly lacking cpu ever.
Fleet Typhoon: - where other ships get the additional slot that was the only thing hindering it from taking over the world, we trade 8 bonused highslots for 8 bonused highslots. Where so far we were able to choose which ship bonus to throw away (read: not fit ACs), we now additionally get to decide to which degree we throw it away (on 3 or on 4 slots).
Summary: who told you the above mentioned was a "faction upgrade class" upgrade for a ship? He lied. 5/5 should be what the normal Phoon has because fixed split weapons and ship bonuses you are forced to ignore are horrible.
[[No characters left ... to be continued]]
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.07 04:46:00 -
[346]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 07/09/2009 04:50:10 [[... and on it goes]]
Overall summary: you know your race is about to become an endangered species when its design philisophy specs are unclear or desync'ed from the state of the game enough, that an intended theoretical boost results in a practical nerf.
- migitate incoming damage by speed (nerfed) - migitate incoming damage by small sig (newer Minmatar hulls have much less sig advantage compared to the original lineup) - kite blasters outside of their range in a window where projectile dps is to such a degree higher than blaster dps to offset the stronger tank / more HP (not sure such a damage window ever existed, but the speed/acceleration changes made dictating range a whole lot harder, mwd deactivation scrambler, overheated webs/points) - close fast on pulse ships and out-track them close (pulse tracking boost, more and more Amarr ships with the previously lacking additional web, speed nerf counters closing fast and maintaining transversal) - low-dps and ridiculous reloads designed to make artillery unusable in prolonged engagements, compensated by serious volley damage to assist fast hit and run tactics (general HP boost, more and more ships with resist bonuses)
These are the strong points that I think Matar has/had in regards to other races and turret systems, and which a hull's faction upgrade should augment. The list of things working against these over the years is long though. The only traits that seem to weather every storm are the negative ones.
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Vylth
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Posted - 2009.09.07 06:30:00 -
[347]
Originally by: FURY EG
Originally by: Sylvaen
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
Originally by: Alana Blazing
Indeed the domi realy needs 400 calibration to fit two sentry rigs. Otherwise the navy version is useless as a normal domi will outdps it for pve. And since the navy Version will be rather pricy most ppl will not use it for pvp.
All faction BS have 350 calibration, why the hell they should make an exception to dominix? Because u want 2 sentry rigs, lol?
Because it's outclassed in damage by its vanilla, 50m isk counterpart without those rigs. Though I'd rather they change up the bonus or something and finally let us have a better drone-only dps boat.
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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.09.07 06:40:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Vylth
Originally by: FURY EG
Originally by: Sylvaen
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
Originally by: Alana Blazing
Indeed the domi realy needs 400 calibration to fit two sentry rigs. Otherwise the navy version is useless as a normal domi will outdps it for pve. And since the navy Version will be rather pricy most ppl will not use it for pvp.
All faction BS have 350 calibration, why the hell they should make an exception to dominix? Because u want 2 sentry rigs, lol?
Because it's outclassed in damage by its vanilla, 50m isk counterpart without those rigs. Though I'd rather they change up the bonus or something and finally let us have a better drone-only dps boat.
With 6 mids, the Dominix can now fit a very respectable shield tank, leaving 7 lows for grid and damage mods.
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TheRealBanana1
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.07 06:48:00 -
[349]
lol drone control units for domi plx cant get anymore drone dedicated than that.
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Xavier Sunder
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:07:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Gypsio III The Rattlesnake has no role and is basically just a Raven with an extra lowslot, as it doesn't have the fittings to use its hybrid bonus and would only ever fit two turrets even if it could.
Rattlesnake is a passive shield tanking beast. It's a BS-sized Drake.
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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:18:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Xavier Sunder
Originally by: Gypsio III The Rattlesnake has no role and is basically just a Raven with an extra lowslot, as it doesn't have the fittings to use its hybrid bonus and would only ever fit two turrets even if it could.
Rattlesnake is a passive shield tanking beast. It's a BS-sized Drake.
Every slot dedicated to the tank - 1150dps omni recharge tank.
3 lowslots with damage mods in them - 500dps omni recharge tank.
Neither is very impressive. If you mean buffer tank, the CNR is equally good, only with moar guns.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:37:00 -
[352]
Amarr Navy Slicer:
ò Has been renamed to Imperal Navy Slicer ò New slot layout: 3 high, 2 med and 5 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 115 CPU, 47 powergrid ò Bonuses: 25% to small energy turret damage and 10% to turret range bonus per Amarr Frigate skill level ò Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Punisher) ò Capacitor: 500 capacitor, 281.55s recharge (about 1.8 cap/s) ò Speed: 390m/s, 3.3 agility ò Sensor: 31km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 550mm scan resolution, 10 radar sensor strength, 38m signature radius
Proposed amarr navy slicer is greatly inferior to the current one. At amarr frig 5, it has equal damage, anything less and it's inferior to the current one. Proposed version has no advantage over the current slicer. It's faster, but using a faction ship as a suicide tackler smacks of stupidity. They need to be more inline with AF's, not inties.
In regards to the navy apoc, I recommend a ship bonus change. As it is it's great for pve but for pvp it's a bit lacking. The reason is it's complete lack of a damage bonus. I suggest removing the cap usage bonus in favor of a damage bonus. Doing so will bring to light the true disadvantage of amarr (massive cap usage) and also allow it to compete against other faction BS's like the navy mega and CNR in quick slugging matches with active cap boosting. Other than that I like the proposed faction BS changes.
Also, what about faction cruisers? I rather like my navy omen, leave it alone please other than maybe a boost to sensor strength and CPU/Grid. -----------------------------------------------------
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Armored Contempt
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:01:00 -
[353]
Mh, I just compated the fittings of the Succubus and the Slicer since they have the same gun bonuses and all..
Slicer / Succubus
115 CPU, 47 powergrid / 175 CPU, 58 powergrid
Notice how the Succubus gets both more PG and CPU. While I can definetly understand the need for more CPU on the Succubus (shield tanker) and the desire to "nerf" the Slicer through CPU constraints, which is something quite a few amarrian ships share, the lack of PG on the slicer is a bit shocking.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:17:00 -
[354]
To all the "split weapon fail" posters. I don't think you realise just what a split weapon system means. It is that a ship is getting bonuses to two weapon types not that it can fit two different systems .. that is called variety. Majority of ships have ability to fit guns and missiles, the proposed ships focus their bonuses on single weapons which is a good thing.
Originally by: King Rothgar Proposed amarr navy slicer is greatly inferior to the current one. At amarr frig 5, it has equal damage, anything less and it's inferior to the current one. Proposed version has no advantage over the current slicer.
Errm, what? The proposed Slicer gets a damage boost equal to one gun with 25% bonus . .same damage as the Crusader. It gets this, the range and speed at the cost of half a guns worth of extra cap use .. massive buff.
As for visuals of Slicer. why remove a gun model if you can add ADD a gun. Could have the same sort of spread as the Crusader does currently, would look evil combined with the fog-lights!
The only thing I am a little worried about is balance. The buffs everything gets in terms of combat potential is bound to skew everything and make Navy hulls the de facto standard for most combat .. they will be 2-300% more effective than anything non-faction T1 which is a lot.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:20:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Xavier Sunder
Originally by: Gypsio III The Rattlesnake has no role and is basically just a Raven with an extra lowslot, as it doesn't have the fittings to use its hybrid bonus and would only ever fit two turrets even if it could.
Rattlesnake is a passive shield tanking beast. It's a BS-sized Drake.
No, a Raven is a BS-sized Drake, as both buffer-tank. And the Rattler is just a Raven with an extra lowslot. Sure, you could fit a passive tank to Rattler or Drake, but more fool you.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 08:57:00 -
[356]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 07/09/2009 08:58:50
Originally by: Mioelnir stuff
well said, pretty much summed up what I have observed happening to minmatar ever since I started the game. Back then they where a pretty good race. Though a lot of things have changed for the better we seem to have changed for the worst. ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Derus Grobb
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:01:00 -
[357]
Please give my Fleet Tempest its midslot back!
And fix projectiles, Minmatar need moar love ---
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:02:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Typhado3 Edited by: Typhado3 on 07/09/2009 08:58:50
Originally by: Mioelnir stuff
well said, pretty much summed up what I have observed happening to minmatar ever since I started the game. Back then they where a pretty good race. Though a lot of things have changed for the better we seem to have changed for the worst.
Signed. Dear CCP please delete Minmatar race from the game. Slap more them on face and just keep the ammarrian overpowered ship and race in the game. Thats will be better than this ridiculous ship changes. Because when deleting from game matars, perhaps the nerf comes to an end then.
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CaptDark
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:35:00 -
[359]
One big wish from me now here:
Don't forget to give the other factionships some love:
e.g.:
Nightmare Machariel etc.
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Ravcharas
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:56:00 -
[360]
Originally by: CaptDark One big wish from me now here:
Don't forget to give the other factionships some love:
e.g.:
Nightmare Machariel etc.
Also, Hurricane fleet issue.
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2009.09.07 13:11:00 -
[361]
want to make me exicited for a new BS, give me a "REAL DRONE BOAT" for the gallante, such that i can carry a lot of drones, and can put out more than 5 drones at a time, if i'm paying 150k LP then atleast give me a reason to want it... Nerf the highs and give me extra drones depending on BS level. That would make me a happy gallante player, as it is i'm embarrased that my friend with an amarr battleship and arty can out DPS my frigging mega with modal neutron blasters, and his does it at 10x the range!
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kyrieee
Brutal Deliverance Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2009.09.07 13:37:00 -
[362]
6 mid slot navy dominix? I LOOOVE YOU!!!
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TheRealBanana1
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.07 14:07:00 -
[363]
Edited by: TheRealBanana1 on 07/09/2009 14:08:07
Originally by: Lord Helghast want to make me exicited for a new BS, give me a "REAL DRONE BOAT" for the gallante, such that i can carry a lot of drones, and can put out more than 5 drones at a time, if i'm paying 150k LP then atleast give me a reason to want it... Nerf the highs and give me extra drones depending on BS level. That would make me a happy gallante player, as it is i'm embarrased that my friend with an amarr battleship and arty can out DPS my frigging mega with modal neutron blasters, and his does it at 10x the range!
qft, let us use DCU's w/ more bandwidth or at least a bonus for drone damage that is on par with having more than 5 drones out.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2009.09.07 14:45:00 -
[364]
Definetly fap worthy stats on these ships.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.09.07 15:19:00 -
[365]
To all the people in this thread whining about 350 cal, if you want to mission run in the new Navy Dominix (which I think is detestable mind you):
LEARN TO FIT TECH 2 RIGS.
15% sentry drone damage bonus instead of 10% is an acceptable price to pay, and then you even have 50 cal left over!
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.09.07 15:41:00 -
[366]
Originally by: King Rothgar
Proposed amarr navy slicer is greatly inferior to the current one. At amarr frig 5, it has equal damage, anything less and it's inferior to the current one. Proposed version has no advantage over the current slicer. It's faster, but using a faction ship as a suicide tackler smacks of stupidity. They need to be more inline with AF's, not inties.
It'll be more agile than a crusader (3.3 agility v. 4.0 agility, remember lower agility mods are better) and it's nearly as fast. It has much more damage than the current navy slicer. 3 guns with a 5% damage bonus (total: 25% damage bonus) comes to 3.75 effective turrets. The new one - 2 guns, with a 25% damage bonus (total: 125% damage bonus) comes to 2*(1+1.25) = 4.5 effective turrets, which is a 20% increase in DPS over the old one.
This is ignoring the monstrous range bonus, because I'll have you know that you can get 20km optimal with scorch on the Slicer now without any difficulty. This is huge.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Errm, what? The proposed Slicer gets a damage boost equal to one gun with 25% bonus . .same damage as the Crusader. It gets this, the range and speed at the cost of half a guns worth of extra cap use .. massive buff.
Not quite the same damage actually. Crusader (and Retribution, for that matter) both have 4 turrets and a 5% damage bonus (again, per level), so they both have 5 turrets worth of damage. Well, the Crusader does anyway since the damage bonus is on the Frigate skill, which you need at V to fly it. The Retribution still has more damage than the slicer though if you've trained assault ships to III or more (which you will).
But if you look at the entire thing you realize you have a ship with excellent cap, high agility, very decent speed, lasers, and a range bonus. Plus three rig slots. I, for one, welcome the comeback of the Pulse Crusader, only with 22km optimal this time - a significant improvement over the 18km range we used to be able to pull, before locus fixes, and a huge improvement over the paltry 15km available right now.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida As for visuals of Slicer. why remove a gun model if you can add ADD a gun. Could have the same sort of spread as the Crusader does currently, would look evil combined with the fog-lights!
I think it'd look too cluttered if you add a gun to it, imho. Where would you put it? __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Vylth
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Posted - 2009.09.07 16:25:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Ecky X
Originally by: Vylth
Originally by: FURY EG
Originally by: Sylvaen
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
Originally by: Alana Blazing
Indeed the domi realy needs 400 calibration to fit two sentry rigs. Otherwise the navy version is useless as a normal domi will outdps it for pve. And since the navy Version will be rather pricy most ppl will not use it for pvp.
All faction BS have 350 calibration, why the hell they should make an exception to dominix? Because u want 2 sentry rigs, lol?
Because it's outclassed in damage by its vanilla, 50m isk counterpart without those rigs. Though I'd rather they change up the bonus or something and finally let us have a better drone-only dps boat.
With 6 mids, the Dominix can now fit a very respectable shield tank, leaving 7 lows for grid and damage mods.
Great, but no drone damage mod exists so those 7 lows don't matter much. Perhaps you haven't been reading what I've said, but I think it's silly that it's been years and years and there's still no ship than does more DRONE dps than a vanilla domi. Give it a 15 or 20% drone bonus, that would be more exciting even if you take that 6th mid or a few turrets off the thing to compensate.
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Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2009.09.07 16:26:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Terianna Eri sensible thoughts on the slicer
This pretty much covers my thoughts on the Slicer, it looks like it will be a wonderful ship.
Re: Firetail. I don;t think it looks to bad with the proposed stats, but I think it would be nicer if the Navy frigs didn't share almost all of the same bonuses. Obviously, it needs damage bonus if it's going to have less turrets (although it could always be an anomaly in the "Assault Interceptor" class and have a normal complement of guns, but with a different bonus) but does it need the tracking one?
However, the problem that I see with the Firetail keeping its speed bonus is that it would be a better combat interceptor than the claw, which I don't think is the point of these new navy ships. Somewhere In England |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.09.07 16:44:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 07/09/2009 16:44:52 The proposed stats for the new Fleet Pest is what the standard Pest should allready have with 7 turret points with the standard HP's.
The new Fleet stats should be 7 turrets and keep the extra midslot they are getting rid of.
The Phoon looks sweet though and since I use Phoons over Pests allready for RR closerange work it just got better!
The new Scorp looks pretty dam fine as well and I'd like to point out with the other ppl that allready have IT HAS NOT GOT A SPLIT WEAPON BONUS. If it had a split weapon bonus it would have bonus's to Hybrids and Missiles!
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:08:00 -
[370]
Quote: I'd like to point out with the other ppl that allready have IT HAS NOT GOT A SPLIT WEAPON BONUS. If it had a split weapon bonus it would have bonus's to Hybrids and Missiles!
It's lame as hell to get a 5/4 weapons layout for that. Needs to be 6/3.
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Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:24:00 -
[371]
Edited by: Sputnik Tsygan on 07/09/2009 17:25:07 I just about had kittens when I seen the travesty of what they're doing to the firetail.
I searched for this thread but couldn't find it amongst the reams of information. So I started a thread in the ships and modules section.
It is my aim to rescue the wonderful firetail from oblivion (as well as getting a sorely needed overhaul of the pirate faction ships).
When you seen this thread did you ask these questions:
1) Why are they not changing the pirate faction ships? Those guys need it wa-a-a-y more than the empire faction ships.
2) What on earth do they think they're doing to the firetail? It's nowhere near as good as the other faction frigs and actually worse than the original in many ways.
If so please take a moment to read all the information I have supplied and contribute to my thread.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1173519
This has got to be changed before it is too late.
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Vanden
The Happy Spacemen
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:27:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan 1) Why are they not changing the pirate faction ships? Those guys need it wa-a-a-y more than the empire faction ships.
It has been VERY STRONGLY hinted at in this thread that they are.
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Alana Blazing
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:38:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Ecky X
Originally by: Vylth
Originally by: FURY EG
Originally by: Sylvaen
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
Originally by: Alana Blazing
Indeed the domi realy needs 400 calibration to fit two sentry rigs. Otherwise the navy version is useless as a normal domi will outdps it for pve. And since the navy Version will be rather pricy most ppl will not use it for pvp.
All faction BS have 350 calibration, why the hell they should make an exception to dominix? Because u want 2 sentry rigs, lol?
Because it's outclassed in damage by its vanilla, 50m isk counterpart without those rigs. Though I'd rather they change up the bonus or something and finally let us have a better drone-only dps boat.
With 6 mids, the Dominix can now fit a very respectable shield tank, leaving 7 lows for grid and damage mods.
That would be nice but you can already try that. Unless you use ded equip you will run into trouble with your cpu. So you may have one more med in which you cant fir anything since you lack free cpu.
And you will loose drone dps cause you have less sentry rigs.
So in short you may gain gun dps and loose drone dps. Sounds like a bad tradeoff for a drone boat.
So it seems that drone users got shafted again.
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Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:13:00 -
[374]
minmatar... *pffft* what the hell?(once again) :DDD oh well noone was flyin them anyway. |
AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:27:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Alana Blazing That would be nice but you can already try that. Unless you use ded equip you will run into trouble with your cpu. So you may have one more med in which you cant fir anything since you lack free cpu.
And you will loose drone dps cause you have less sentry rigs.
So in short you may gain gun dps and loose drone dps. Sounds like a bad tradeoff for a drone boat.
So it seems that drone users got shafted again.
Drone users got shafted? I will probably be buying my alt a navy issue domi if the prices aren't ridiculous. The box, think outside of it. It's quite obvious you're not going to fit a 220 CPU XL II on a domi.
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Alana Blazing
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:35:00 -
[376]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Alana Blazing That would be nice but you can already try that. Unless you use ded equip you will run into trouble with your cpu. So you may have one more med in which you cant fir anything since you lack free cpu.
And you will loose drone dps cause you have less sentry rigs.
So in short you may gain gun dps and loose drone dps. Sounds like a bad tradeoff for a drone boat.
So it seems that drone users got shafted again.
Drone users got shafted? I will probably be buying my alt a navy issue domi if the prices aren't ridiculous. The box, think outside of it. It's quite obvious you're not going to fit a 220 CPU XL II on a domi.
Well we talking about something that can beat a armor tanked dual rigged sentry fit for dps.
That means a full rack of t2 425s.
Something like this:
[Dominix, domi shield] Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster True Sansha Cap Recharger Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Sentry Damage Augmentor I Capacitor Control Circuit I Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Garde II x5
If you have a fit which is less cpu intensive and has some better dps i am glad to hear.
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Sylvaen
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:35:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Alana Blazing
Originally by: Vylth
Originally by: FURY EG
Originally by: Sylvaen
Please keep Dominix calibration at 400 rather than cutting to 350
Thx
Originally by: Alana Blazing
Indeed the domi realy needs 400 calibration to fit two sentry rigs. Otherwise the navy version is useless as a normal domi will outdps it for pve. And since the navy Version will be rather pricy most ppl will not use it for pvp.
All faction BS have 350 calibration, why the hell they should make an exception to dominix? Because u want 2 sentry rigs, lol?
Because it's outclassed in damage by its vanilla, 50m isk counterpart without those rigs. Though I'd rather they change up the bonus or something and finally let us have a better drone-only dps boat.
With 6 mids, the Dominix can now fit a very respectable shield tank, leaving 7 lows for grid and damage mods.
That would be nice but you can already try that. Unless you use ded equip you will run into trouble with your cpu. So you may have one more med in which you cant fir anything since you lack free cpu.
And you will loose drone dps cause you have less sentry rigs.
So in short you may gain gun dps and loose drone dps. Sounds like a bad tradeoff for a drone boat.
So it seems that drone users got shafted again.
CCP, this nerf for missions will also cause problems for the very Gallente Faction War players you are trying to help by creating this ship.
The main market for these ships will be the expereinced mission runners but they will not buy a ship that runs mission more slowly than the existing standard Dominix. As a result ships will not sell, prices wil drop and Gallente Faction War players will fail to benefit as much as you had intended.
If this ship put out the same DPS as my standard Domi I would be saving my Isk already, currently I am severely disapointed.
What about giving the ship a fixed 10% Sentry damage role bonus in addition to standard bonuses and reducing calibration still further to 300.
This will give us the drone ship we Gallenteans yearn for and create a marketable product for the Faction War players to sell.
Sylv
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RedSplat
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.07 18:59:00 -
[378]
Edited by: RedSplat on 07/09/2009 19:00:17 For those wondering why Navy ships were priortized over Pirate,
The Playerbase is largely Carebear Missionrunners. They dont like to run missions for pirate factions as this exposes them to Lowsec and 0.0 and damages Empire Faction standings.
EDIT: And for those of you that dont think the Navy Domi is OP, you need to wake up and smell what you are standing in.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.07 19:07:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: King Rothgar
Proposed amarr navy slicer is greatly inferior to the current one. At amarr frig 5, it has equal damage, anything less and it's inferior to the current one. Proposed version has no advantage over the current slicer. It's faster, but using a faction ship as a suicide tackler smacks of stupidity. They need to be more inline with AF's, not inties.
It'll be more agile than a crusader (3.3 agility v. 4.0 agility, remember lower agility mods are better) and it's nearly as fast. It has much more damage than the current navy slicer. 3 guns with a 5% damage bonus (total: 25% damage bonus) comes to 3.75 effective turrets. The new one - 2 guns, with a 25% damage bonus (total: 125% damage bonus) comes to 2*(1+1.25) = 4.5 effective turrets, which is a 20% increase in DPS over the old one.
This is ignoring the monstrous range bonus, because I'll have you know that you can get 20km optimal with scorch on the Slicer now without any difficulty. This is huge.
Bah, for some reason I thought it had 4 turrets instead of 3, nm I suppose. -----------------------------------------------------
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.07 19:11:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida As for visuals of Slicer. why remove a gun model if you can add ADD a gun. Could have the same sort of spread as the Crusader does currently, would look evil combined with the fog-lights!
I think it'd look too cluttered if you add a gun to it, imho. Where would you put it?
Same as the Crusader, 4 on each pylon. The Slicer model is slightly larger (at least that's the feeling I have when flying it) so wouldn't be cluttered. The Crusader looks like an porcupine with murder on its mind which is glorious!
As for the damage .. my visualization of the math sadly failed. Almost same damage as Crusader and Retribution, I can live with that. New Slicer might even give the Succubus a run for the money of fitted right, and as faction laser boats go the Sansha line-up is the one to beat
The Firetail with damage bonus scares me though. Will make it a really tough bugger to kill due to its high speed and low signature .. FW plexing will certainly become more interesting and expensive.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.07 19:27:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Alana Blazing If you have a fit which is less cpu intensive and has some better dps i am glad to hear.
Easily. 3% PG imp.
[Dominix, shield] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Sentry Damage Augmentor II Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Garde II x5
Navy domi will be able to fit another mid for a CR, or TC, or hardener if CPU allows (can always go faction hards). A bit pricey perhaps, but 1040 DPS at 41km is nothing to sneeze at. I suppose you could drop to faction guns for less cap use and not need the PG imp, but you lose some damage.
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Alana Blazing
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Posted - 2009.09.07 20:23:00 -
[382]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Alana Blazing If you have a fit which is less cpu intensive and has some better dps i am glad to hear.
Easily. 3% PG imp.
[Dominix, shield] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Sentry Damage Augmentor II Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Garde II x5
Navy domi will be able to fit another mid for a CR, or TC, or hardener if CPU allows (can always go faction hards). A bit pricey perhaps, but 1040 DPS at 41km is nothing to sneeze at. I suppose you could drop to faction guns for less cap use and not need the PG imp, but you lose some damage.
Nice. But the fit i use is past 1100 dps with implants. You also need a DED shield Booster. And your fit needs 400 calibration as the sentry2 rig already needs 300 so it will not work on a navy domi.
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kyrieee
Brutal Deliverance Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2009.09.07 20:30:00 -
[383]
Edited by: kyrieee on 07/09/2009 20:32:02 This is my lolfit
[Dominix, Dum Dum Domi] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Shield Boost Amplifier II Republic Fleet X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Electron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L [empty high slot]
Trimark Armor Pump I Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Ogre II x5 Ogre II x10
829 DPS, 164K EHP 1090 DPS tank vs Antimatter with Crystals
You might wanna fit trimarks instead but I guess it depends on the situation With a navy domi you could fit that + tackle and even bigger buffer
The point of this fit is just to have fun with blaster megas xD
Seriously though, the navy Dominix NEEDS more calibration or a bonus to drone rigs. Personally I was also hoping for an extra drone or two, and possibly a larger drone damage bonus. Maybe that's for another ship class...
Btw, those 425mm rail domis give up too much tank IMO. You can get close to 900 DPS with 325mm rails and get more than twice the tank
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.07 20:39:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Alana Blazing Nice. But the fit i use is past 1100 dps with implants. You also need a DED shield Booster. And your fit needs 400 calibration as the sentry2 rig already needs 300 so it will not work on a navy domi. Btw what drone rigging skill did you use in eft ?
Mine doesn't have imps included, I think it's the sameish setup. It should be the same damage, but more range. And yes, it won't work on the navy domi, but if you switch the sentry rig to t1 you should be fine. Then you get a mid with which to fit a TC, Omni, CR, hardener or whatever you'd like. You could also fiddle with the lows (RCU II or two perhaps), dunno I haven't played with it too much.
Drone rigging 5 (just all 5), but it should fit with 4, I think I had 20-some CPU spare.
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Cynosural Girl
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Posted - 2009.09.07 20:43:00 -
[385]
what a load of crap. that really does effectively xxxx up the pirate faction bs'es into next to worthless pieces of expensive crap. :D
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Alana Blazing
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Posted - 2009.09.07 20:59:00 -
[386]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Alana Blazing Nice. But the fit i use is past 1100 dps with implants. You also need a DED shield Booster. And your fit needs 400 calibration as the sentry2 rig already needs 300 so it will not work on a navy domi. Btw what drone rigging skill did you use in eft ?
Mine doesn't have imps included, I think it's the sameish setup. It should be the same damage, but more range. And yes, it won't work on the navy domi, but if you switch the sentry rig to t1 you should be fine. Then you get a mid with which to fit a TC, Omni, CR, hardener or whatever you'd like. You could also fiddle with the lows (RCU II or two perhaps), dunno I haven't played with it too much.
Drone rigging 5 (just all 5), but it should fit with 4, I think I had 20-some CPU spare.
Well i am already have a working armor domi fit that does 961 dps with implants. With my actual char. Not a all 5 char. And it does more dps with drones then guns. Which means i can tailor its dps to the rats. So thx i will pass on the navy domi. Btw its most t2 crap not 500 mil dead space mods. BTW thats still less then a Torp Golem does with less skill investment.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.07 21:08:00 -
[387]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Apocalypse Navy Issue:
•Fittings: 580 CPU, 21525 powergrid •Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged •Sensor: +25% sensor resolution
Raven Navy Issue:
•Fittings: 735 CPU, 10925 powergrid •Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged •Sensor: +25% sensor resolution
Oh my god, I actually overread this the first time. Why get Caldari/Amarr better Sensor resolution than Minmatar? Do they lose locking range and sensor strength to balance it (such as Minmatar does)? Why needs the Navy version of the BEST SNIPING BATTLESHIP IN GAME even more sensor resolution? Why only sensor reolution and not the full set with sensor resolution, locking range, turret optimal range, turret tracking and armor resistances? Then at least it would be obvious that flying ANYTHING else is futile. *shakes head*
Now, since I ranted on the page before about the proposed Tempest, here is my suggestion straight from wonderland. Probably a case for the Make A Wish Foundation though. I left it at 5 med slots as I think Minmatar has already 2 very capable shield tanking mission boats (Maelstrom and Vargur). Also I cross the red line to Never Ever™ give those crappy Minmatar more than 6 med or low slots in anything smaller than a supercapital (Phoon the exception to the rule, I'm sure converting it to 5/6 med/low was at least tried already CCP internally).
Differences are against the current TQ version.
Quote:
8 high [6 turrets, 4 launchers] (unchanged) 5 meds (-1 med) 7 lows (+1 low) 3 rigs [350 calibration] (unchanged) 125m3 dronebay (+50m3) 100mbit bandwith (+25mbit) Hull-HP: 6641 (unchanged) Armor-HP: 6954 (swapped with shields) Shield-HP: 6211 (swapped with armor) cpu: 606tf (+56tf) grid: 16'700mw (+1'200mw) Max Velocity: 132m/s (+10%) Mass: 97'000'000 (-6%) Inertia Modifier 0.108 (-10%)
Example Fitting: [Tempest Fleet Issue, Dominion Wonderland] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Target Painter II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x4 Warrior II x5
EHP: 117'000 (no gang bonus, EFT default calculation) DPS: 766 [6x 800mm AC II/Barrage, 2x H.Neut II, 4x Bouncer II] DPS: 903 [6x 800mm AC II/Barrage, 2x Siege II/CN, 4x Bouncer II] DPS: 1113 [6x 800mm AC II/Hail, 2x Siege II/T2 Rage, 4x Ogre II]
Then revisit the ship once Projectiles are dealt with.
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 21:22:00 -
[388]
Edited by: NightmareX on 07/09/2009 21:25:59 Well, i'm going to be seriously honest here. And i mean it when i say this to.
As CCP want the Tempest Fleet Issue to be now, then please tell me a damn good reason why i should take a Tempest Fleet Issue over my current Megathron Navy Issue?.
The new Navy Mega will wipe the floor over the new Tempest Fleet Issue.
The new Megathron Navy Issue will probably be able to fit a full rack of 7x t2 Neutrons, 3x plates, 100MN MWD II and a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on top of that and also a Heavy Neut.
So tell me again why i should take a Tempest Fleet Issue over a Megathron Navy Issue.
Yes, it's the right way to go to give the Tempest Fleet Issue a 7th turret slot, but don't touch the 6th med slot on the ship. Because as the new Tempest Fleet Issue is going to be is really how the normal Tempest should have been ages ago to be honest.
Edit. Don't take me wrong though. I still like the Tempest for some types of PVP situations though. But i see no reasons at all to sell my Navy Mega to get a Fleet Tempest. Or to get a Fleet Tempest instead of a new Navy Mega.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Jeremiah Tameri
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Posted - 2009.09.07 21:31:00 -
[389]
Oh god navy issue Armageddon, I want that so bad right now, the second dominion comes out i'm going to be scanning contracts for it.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:47:00 -
[390]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Amarr Navy Slicer: Sensor: 31km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 550mm scan resolution, 10 radar sensor strength, 38m signature radius
Caldari Navy Hookbill: Sensor: 35km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 600mm scan resolution, 12 gravimetric sensor strength, 40m signature radius
Gallente Navy Comet: Sensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
Republic Fleet Firetail: Sensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
wtf happend to minmatar locking fastest?
Do ccp have some big plan to completely rework the minmatar race at some point? Cause they seem to be removing all our racial strengths 1 by 1 like a build up to something awesome they are about to add but we have to be prenerfed to ensure we aren't op when it happens. ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.08 04:18:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Vylth Great, but no drone damage mod exists so those 7 lows don't matter much. Perhaps you haven't been reading what I've said, but I think it's silly that it's been years and years and there's still no ship than does more DRONE dps than a vanilla domi. Give it a 15 or 20% drone bonus, that would be more exciting even if you take that 6th mid or a few turrets off the thing to compensate.
blasters + utilities (neut, nos, rr) mwd/shield tank dcu, 3x mag stabs, 3x nanos.
Could be fun? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.08 04:42:00 -
[392]
pirate faction ships are up next
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:01:00 -
[393]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Dominix Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 6 high, 6 med, 7 low slots, 6 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 9900 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9961), armor (9316) and shields (8203) òCapacitor: +5% max capacitor (5250 capacitor, 1087.5s recharge) òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% magnetometric sensor strength
Maybe somebody already said that but i'll tell my opinion:
Like i can fit 1 additional Omnidirectional Tracking link, but i can't fit 2 sentry damage augmentors...
Really 1 additional medslot and 25m3 drone bay? Isn't big boost i should say...
Maybe u should take away bonus to Hybrid Damage, and give him Role Bonus Can control 1 additional drone, and +25 m3 of bandwidth. Gallente are drone lovers why not? You may even take away that additional med slot for such a boost not only hybrid damage... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Ramson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:10:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Typhado3
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Amarr Navy Slicer: Sensor: 31km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 550mm scan resolution, 10 radar sensor strength, 38m signature radius
Caldari Navy Hookbill: Sensor: 35km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 600mm scan resolution, 12 gravimetric sensor strength, 40m signature radius
Gallente Navy Comet: Sensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
Republic Fleet Firetail: Sensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
wtf happend to minmatar locking fastest?
Do ccp have some big plan to completely rework the minmatar race at some point? Cause they seem to be removing all our racial strengths 1 by 1 like a build up to something awesome they are about to add but we have to be prenerfed to ensure we aren't op when it happens.
Nah,CCP just does it for the lawlz to see how much abuse can matari ship pilots take before they throw their 5x times more expensive 10x more skill intensive ships for those ships that actualy work properly and are a pain to fit. -------
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.08 06:23:00 -
[395]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 16:10:45
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
B*ll****. Just 7 high slot + heavy drones + 8 low and they can use 3 heatsink and get 1300 DPS with good tanking ability ?
1700 dps!!!!! even 2500!!!
no, it does 1172 with 3 sinks + AN multi. yet most geddons will run on 2 sinks doing 1077.
Smartboy, maybe you never flaw with ships.
Gedon with 7x megapulses + CX2+LX2 implant 3 Heatsink can 1364 DPS with overheat. With 2x Heat Sink can 1248 DPS.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0909/megageddon.jpg
7x dual pulses + CX2+LX2 iplants + 3 heatsink + overheat 1222 DPS and almost 5k PG left.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0909/pulsegeddon.jpg
When changes coming the amarrian pilots can use easily MWD+large repairer+large capacitor and left enough firepower too, because amarrian battleships the most overpowered ships in the game. Other races starting the game with handicap, because amarrian guns not lose time when change ammo, not need reloading in battle if the pilot smart and changed before battle the damaged ammos, they can shot almost 50km with good efficiently with short range weapons, tracking of guns best in the game, best armor tank in the game. So..... dont cry, try to fly with matar battleships, that's ridiculous all. Pest -1 slot ? They need +1 slot because they are so weak and what will happen they want to do remove a mid slot and make it an another matari nerf. Don't blame other with +1 gun slot, that's not help for Pest.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.08 07:05:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Terianna Eri This is ignoring the monstrous range bonus, because I'll have you know that you can get 20km optimal with scorch on the Slicer now without any difficulty. This is huge.
And better damage/cap ratios. Since I'm utterly unexcited and more than marginally insulted about the Minmatar stuff, I'm glad I'll have Amarr and Lasers lined up by the time this patch hits.
Quote: But if you look at the entire thing you realize you have a ship with excellent cap, high agility, very decent speed, lasers, and a range bonus. Plus three rig slots.
I'm right there with you. :)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
StJamesofSorrow
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.09.08 08:15:00 -
[397]
Faction ships, nice..great to spin in your hanger.
Add mid slots to Retribution and Coercer would be better. These, especially the Retribution are in need of some love.
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.08 09:09:00 -
[398]
a weaker version of the t2 afs is probably a good space for t1 factional frigs to be.
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.08 10:11:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 08/09/2009 10:16:31
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 08/09/2009 06:49:00
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 06/09/2009 16:10:45
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
B*ll****. Just 7 high slot + heavy drones + 8 low and they can use 3 heatsink and get 1300 DPS with good tanking ability ?
1700 dps!!!!! even 2500!!!
no, it does 1172 with 3 sinks + AN multi. yet most geddons will run on 2 sinks doing 1077.
Smartboy, maybe you never flaw with ships.
Gedon with 7x megapulses + CX2+LX2 implant 3 Heatsink can 1364 DPS with overheat. With 2x Heat Sink can 1248 DPS.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0909/megageddon.jpg
7x dual pulses + CX2+LX2 iplants + 3 heatsink + overheat 1222 DPS and almost 5k PG left.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0909/pulsegeddon.jpg
Since when overheated and 2x 5% hardwire implanted setups are actually the base for any balance in this game? Because if you know you can add same 5% implants to any other ship and overheat them too giving similiar increase in damage. If you really wanted to prove a point you should also put high grade slaves in and shown that geddon has much more EHP than any other battleship.
EDIT: wait, wtf? no MWD? and you are seriously telling me how to fit geddon? get back to the drawing board or learn to fly geddons instead of creating those abominations (lol station camping geddon). also again lol @ conflagration.
Quote:
When changes coming the amarrian pilots can use easily MWD+large repairer+large capacitor+ heavy neut or remote repairer and left enough firepower too, because amarrian battleships the most overpowered ships in the game.
Crap. Mega and domi can use same as above. They are clearly most overpowered ships in game. Hell even typhoon can fit MWD+lar+heavy injector + heavy neut. Even pest. Clearly overpowered ships.
Quote:
Other races starting the game with handicap, because amarrian guns not lose time when change ammo, not need reloading in battle if the pilot smart and changed damaged ammos before the battle. They can shot almost 50km with good efficiently with short range weapons, tracking of guns best in the game, best armor tank in the game.
I hope you know that ammo use in pvp is neiglible. Except for artilery other guns have clips large enough to last for whole battle. And no they dont have "best" tracking. Pulses have worst tracking but "best tracking at their optimal". This is quite a big difference. If you want to play balance game id advise you to stop using semantics.
Quote:
What will happen ? More armor + more speed (MDW) reason more PG to navy geddon. 20 slots. +1 than other battleships. The most overpowered ship get more boost. LOL CCP dont use for navy geddon +1 slot, not need that.
Same speed as normal geddon (they also fit MWD now). As shown above there is a reason why geddon has 20 slots. Either you get +1 slot or +1 weapon slot. Didnt minnie pilots wanted 5/5 fit? Then why so sad now? Its one or another. CCP could give geddon 8 weapon slots instead but you would cry overpowered then too.
Quote:
So..... dont cry, try to fly with matar battleships, that's ridiculous all and the pilots need more learning time than others, because need shield and missile skills too, over than gunnery skills and armor skills.
Flown matari battleships (not much but enough to get grasp on them). Typhoon is solid. Maelstrom is awesome. Pest is meh. Its exactly what i said earier and in other threads.
Quote:
Pest -1 slot ? They need +1 slot because they are so weak. And what will happen ? They want to do remove a mid slot and make it an another matari nerf.
Isnt it what i posted above? Or did you manage to miss it in your POAST RAGEEE?
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.08 11:14:00 -
[400]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 07/09/2009 21:30:17 Well, i'm going to be seriously honest here. And i mean it when i say this to.
As CCP want the Tempest Fleet Issue to be now, then please tell me a damn good reason why i should take a Tempest Fleet Issue over my current Megathron Navy Issue?.
The new Navy Mega will wipe the floor over the new Tempest Fleet Issue in EVERY possible ways.
The new Megathron Navy Issue will probably be able to fit a full rack of 7x t2 Neutrons, 3x plates, 100MN MWD II and a Heavy Capacitor Booster II on top of that and also a Heavy Neut.
So tell me again why i should take a Tempest Fleet Issue over a Megathron Navy Issue.
Yes, it's the right way to go to give the Tempest Fleet Issue a 7th turret slot, but don't touch the 6th med slot on the ship. Because as the new Tempest Fleet Issue is going to be is really how the normal Tempest should have been ages ago to be honest.
If the Fleet Tempest can keep it's 6th med slot + have 7x turret slots, then that might be a very good reason to own a Fleet Tempest over a Navy Mega.
Edit. Don't take me wrong though. I still like the Tempest for some types of PVP situations though. But i see no reasons at all to sell my Navy Mega to get a Fleet Tempest. Or to get a Fleet Tempest instead of a new Navy Mega.
You know tempest is seriously broken when EVEN nightmareX says a mega will defeat the tempest!
That is absolute proof that Absolutely no one on their right minds would say the tempest line is well balanced.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.08 12:03:00 -
[401]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire blablabla
Why you using your alt again if you tell the truth ? Because it's not truth. Link your main and we will see, you are a triumvirate member who fly amarrian ships. Why you using always amarr battleships when the matar ships fine ? Why the lowest things in the game in market the matar battleships ? Couse it's finest ship in the game ? I can fly all BS, tempest too. He has worst tank, and worst firepower than other amored BS. 6 low slot ? which armored bs has 6 low slot ? No one ? What is mean that ? Shorter tank or -1 weapon upgrades.
Station camping geddon ? LOL You are a realy " i can't know nothing from ship pilot" That's a standard geddon PVP fit and can use with fleet and alone just need to change remote repper to neut. Conflagration ? Tha's hurt you ? With Navy multi ammo just few minus DPS. But if you want i write again with modified DPS. Exactly 1300 DPS. Oh no, thats better than 1000 ?
Maelstrom fine ? Where, for what ? In Pve or against 1v1 when the ship cant use neuts ? Who can't use neuts ? The RR fleet battleships ? Oh you can't use mwd in mael ? Ok you need in other modules in mid slot,when enemy got trouble just moving moving out and jump out. You have mwd ? ok MWD/Disruptor/WEB/EM Resist/Invu field or invu fields/shield booster + amplifier, and over. Nice ship in fleet without disruptor and web, can use 2 mid modules instead of them, but why not see just few in killboard, why not using them the pilots ? Maybe they are i repeat you word "awesome". Yes "awesome" for agent in matar space. LOL
Phoon good ? 2 years ago when he had speed ? Allright, you can shot to 20km with faction torps, and when the ship moving to outrange maybe you will never hit them in 16km range. Ok, change to javelin torp will you say, you cant shot to 30km. Oh man, lost firepower when you using, lost speed when you using.
I challenge you with all other class battleship, you just use "the most usable" tempest and i will kill you with all other battleships always.
Other words, you know nothing you tell, 1000 DPS i link picture from almost 1400. And i dont using extreme fitt like Raven with t2 fitted torp and 2x neutron blaster 1600 DPS. Just a common PVP fit. One thing more: the common tempest fit have 800-900 dps with a bad tracking Hail ammo which hit just standing ships. You can remove a 1600 plate for +1 weapon upgrade and you lose 30k effective HP and then you do not reach never (~1000 DPS) those damage ratio what a geddons did, but geddon still have ~120k effective HP and over 1200 DPS.
But you can fly tempest. LOL Just a question why always the Tempest the primary ? Why the fewest pilots use tempest in game, opposite the other battleships ? (most pilot using them just sniper boat) Smartboy, who using amarr BS and yell the "never truth" matar ships is fine. Just i dont think why, when u old the truth, why can kill easily the tempest a domi,geddon,abaddon,megathron,phoon ? Because the tempest fine. :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Smartboy.
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Spaztick
Terminal Impact
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Posted - 2009.09.08 12:07:00 -
[402]
Maybe -1 lows, keep the mid and new turret slot? With that you can keep a bit more "versatility" than having an extra low would afford, whether thats in the form of a good shield buffer or e-war module. I'm still undecided if I would want an extra low for a better all-around sniper fit or an extra mid for a better buffer with ACs (1 TE has the optimal of a scripted TC, but you get a tracking boost to go with it).
Quote: [21:18:10] SFShootme > first a carrier that goes boom, then mr viper had to find one of my goon alts, and now i'm down 182b ;( |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.08 12:23:00 -
[403]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 08/09/2009 12:24:10
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: Deva Blackfire blablabla
Why you using your alt again if you tell the truth ? Because it's not truth. Link your main and we will see, you are a triumvirate member who fly amarrian ships. Why you using always amarr battleships when the matar ships fine ?
I think you are pretty special so i will start treating you like one. Here you go little boy, a bit of research which any internet user could have done in few minutes. "google + tri killboard + search + deva blackfire"
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=2319
Quote:
6 low slot ? which armored bs has 6 low slot ? No one ? What is mean that ? Shorter tank or -1 weapon upgrades.
hyperion. which btw mounts heaviest active armor tank in game. no it doesnt need damage mods to work.
Quote:
Station camping geddon ? LOL You are a realy " i can't know nothing from ship pilot" That's a standard geddon PVP fit and can use with fleet and alone just need to change remote repper to neut.
Ok. You are really special. Or you pvp on jita 4-4 undock. Standard geddon pvp setup ALWAYS has MWD. Unless you never visited 0.0.
Quote:
Conflagration ? Tha's hurt you ? With Navy multi ammo just few minus DPS. But if you want i write again with modified DPS. Exactly 1300 DPS. Oh no, thats better than 1000 ?
Using your semantics: new typhoon gets 1527,5 dps using: 5x siege, overheat, 5% torp implant, 5% rof implant, 2x bcu t2, rages 3x 650mm t2 + hail 5x ogre ii
Thats quite a lot for capless weapon system.
Quote:
rage about maelstrom
After seeing your "ideas" above ill let you find out where is maelstrom useful. You still have lots to learn.
Quote:
I challenge you with all other class battleship, you just use "the most usable" tempest and i will kill you with all other battleships always.
Dunno. Maybe ask INZi why he still uses phoon over geddon for roams. Or just ask him for fits. Or how to fly it. Or watch his movies with phoon pvp. Either way you have no clue and you are another forum "i repeat what i heard" poster.
Quote:
Why the fewest pilots use tempest in game, opposite the other battleships ? (most pilot using them just sniper boat)
Check tri killboards again for rr gangs. Quite a few rr tempests out there.
And tbh with this post im done talking with you. I might respond when you stop raging and posting nonsense. Till then i consider your posts as accurate as tabloids.
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Lumy
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.08 13:01:00 -
[404]
Back to topic and I'll try to be little constructive here.
If you REALLY have to take away slot from Fleet Tempest, because you fear it might become overpowered ONCE YOU FIX PROJECTILES, could you at least remove low slot instead of med one. And swap shield/armor to make it shield tanker.
Rationale behind is quite simple: It works for Navy Raven. Most shield tankers already fit full (~3) amount of damage mods. So adding extra low doesn't really help them, but extra gun is significant. If Fleet Tempest should remain armor tanker, benefit of extra gun over low slot (damage mod or tank) would be none.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.08 13:20:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Lumy Back to topic and I'll try to be little constructive here.
If you REALLY have to take away slot from Fleet Tempest, because you fear it might become overpowered ONCE YOU FIX PROJECTILES, could you at least remove low slot instead of med one. And swap shield/armor to make it shield tanker.
Rationale behind is quite simple: It works for Navy Raven. Most shield tankers already fit full (~3) amount of damage mods. So adding extra low doesn't really help them, but extra gun is significant. If Fleet Tempest should remain armor tanker, benefit of extra gun over low slot (damage mod or tank) would be none.
I agree that 1st thing should be fixing pest (and the slight buff to projectiles) before any further balancing is done. Problem(s) i see: when you turn pest into 8/6/5 boats you will again have whiners that "it is crap ship" because "shieldtanks is stupid blahblah". Like people who whine about maelstrom. Well actually 8/6/5 IS the mael slot layout so the issues that people give to mael will be copied onto pest.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.08 13:24:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire too long
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=2319&view=ships_weapons
Ship and weapon. The Tempest fine, the Mael fine, the Phoon fine.
Top BS in list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Armageddon. Tempest = no on list Phoon = no on list Mael = no on list.
And you yell truth, matar battleships is fine. Why not use tempest ? I see, because you have just want to this geddon boost and want to more different from other race ships. But not the geddon need boost, taht's overpowered. Matar and caldari battleships need more boost and love and the drone users.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.08 16:59:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Some ... Person
Other races starting the game with handicap, because amarrian guns not lose time when change ammo, not need reloading in battle if the pilot smart and changed damaged ammos before the battle. They can shot almost 50km with good efficiently with short range weapons, tracking of guns best in the game, best armor tank in the game.
I hope you know that ammo use in pvp is neiglible. Except for artilery other guns have clips large enough to last for whole battle. And no they dont have "best" tracking. Pulses have worst tracking but "best tracking at their optimal". This is quite a big difference. If you want to play balance game id advise you to stop using semantics.
My ACs with RF EMP say you're full of ****ing **** there sonny. Ammo use in PVP is not at all trivial or negligible. Putting ammo in a Hurricane for a single night on the town costs at least a few million ISK. Also, it really depends how much damage you have, and how much tank they have, and how many ships there are, etc. I agree the problem is most severely and often noticed by Artillery though.
Also, having the best "tracking at optimal" is in fact an interesting statistic - and no it's not a "semantic" issue. It's 100% factual and applicable. It's only because you're viewing things through the narrow lens of lasers that you don't realize just how valuable that particular statistic is.
Quote: Same speed as normal geddon (they also fit MWD now). As shown above there is a reason why geddon has 20 slots. Either you get +1 slot or +1 weapon slot. Didnt minnie pilots wanted 5/5 fit? Then why so sad now? Its one or another. CCP could give geddon 8 weapon slots instead but you would cry overpowered then too.
The problem here is that a 5/5 weapon slot isn't really worth losing a slot over if you already have 8 bonused high slots. The only case where this has been acceptable (CNR) was where it was turning an unbonused high slot into a bonused high slot. Even then, it was only acceptable because all the other faction battleships effectively sucked. But now, we've got the Geddon (which already is a monster) being massively boosted and put up against....... pretty much exactly the same Phoon.
Put it simply: I've now given up on Minmatar, and I'm going to finish out training Amarr on Liang and my Matari alt. It's obvious to me that CCP does not care even slightly about game balance with regards to them. For years they've ****ed over every Matari ship they've come across and simultaneously boosted the other race's equivalent ships. The fleet firetail vs navy snicer, the fleet phoon vs navy geddon, and fleet pest vs navy apoc are all perfect 100% contemporary examples of this.
No matter what you say here: the balance of power is radically shifting (again) to Amarr.
Quote: Flown matari battleships (not much but enough to get grasp on them). Typhoon is solid. Maelstrom is awesome. Pest is meh. Its exactly what i said earier and in other threads.
Obviously. You obviously don't value them enough despite all their AWESOMENESS to fly them enough to *get* a handle on them. Maybe because they're not all that awesome.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:00:00 -
[408]
+1 for making the Navy Domi better than the vanilla Domi at what the Domi does: versatile-as-hell droneboat.
Kill the hybrid bonus, drop a couple turrets, And finally, add this bonus:
15% bonus to drone hitpoints, mining, electronic warfare, logistics, speed, and damage per skill level.
At that point you've restored the classic "good at everything that has to do with drones" dominix. Boosted web drones, boosted rep drones, boosted mining drones, whatever.
I'd say remove the turret mounts altogether, but then you couldn't fill them with leet mining lasers.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:28:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
My ACs with RF EMP say you're full of ****ing **** there sonny. Ammo use in PVP is not at all trivial or negligible. Putting ammo in a Hurricane for a single night on the town costs at least a few million ISK. Also, it really depends how much damage you have, and how much tank they have, and how many ships there are, etc. I agree the problem is most severely and often noticed by Artillery though.
Also, having the best "tracking at optimal" is in fact an interesting statistic - and no it's not a "semantic" issue. It's 100% factual and applicable. It's only because you're viewing things through the narrow lens of lasers that you don't realize just how valuable that particular statistic is.
Quote: Same speed as normal geddon (they also fit MWD now). As shown above there is a reason why geddon has 20 slots. Either you get +1 slot or +1 weapon slot. Didnt minnie pilots wanted 5/5 fit? Then why so sad now? Its one or another. CCP could give geddon 8 weapon slots instead but you would cry overpowered then too.
The problem here is that a 5/5 weapon slot isn't really worth losing a slot over if you already have 8 bonused high slots. The only case where this has been acceptable (CNR) was where it was turning an unbonused high slot into a bonused high slot. Even then, it was only acceptable because all the other faction battleships effectively sucked. But now, we've got the Geddon (which already is a monster) being massively boosted and put up against....... pretty much exactly the same Phoon.
Put it simply: I've now given up on Minmatar, and I'm going to finish out training Amarr on Liang and my Matari alt. It's obvious to me that CCP does not care even slightly about game balance with regards to them. For years they've ****ed over every Matari ship they've come across and simultaneously boosted the other race's equivalent ships. The fleet firetail vs navy snicer, the fleet phoon vs navy geddon, and fleet pest vs navy apoc are all perfect 100% contemporary examples of this.
No matter what you say here: the balance of power is radically shifting (again) to Amarr.
Quote: Flown matari battleships (not much but enough to get grasp on them). Typhoon is solid. Maelstrom is awesome. Pest is meh. Its exactly what i said earier and in other threads.
Obviously. You obviously don't value them enough despite all their AWESOMENESS to fly them enough to *get* a handle on them. Maybe because they're not all that awesome.
-Liang
Perfect summary from that direction, what's the problem and why unbalanced the game.
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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:00:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Liang Nuren ...
Can't agree more. I'm 10 days from Large Lasers V.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:16:00 -
[411]
Edited by: Soporo on 08/09/2009 20:20:21 Scorpion Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò New bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) ò Dronebay unchanged next to standard hull ò Speed: +10% max velocity ò Sensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
Quote: Raven Navy Issue does not receive extra mid/low slots as well. Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think? The Scorpion Navy Issue also receives an extra high slot with its 5th launcheer but this is due to its role change, as it is based on an ECM hull.
Oh? What role is that now exactly? Tanking is not a role, btw, which is all I can see this being used for as it is. Consider making the weapon slots 6/3 instead of the crappy 5/4 if you want this ship to actually be used.
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Gunther Nhilathok
Caldari Warsmiths
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:26:00 -
[412]
Why only through FW LP stores? FW=lame. Navy is same faction. Shouldn't Navy LP stores offer them so they don't end up being ridiculously expensive? Professional Material Re-Allocation Technician |
Kaito Kenshin
Gallente Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2009.09.08 21:25:00 -
[413]
CCP,
My humble request would be that you reconsider making the tier 1 navy battleships available only through the faction warfare LP stores.
A) Many players (like myself) fly their racial ships but have found homes in other militias. I would like to fly the faction equivalent of the BS I've been training for since my first week in EVE, but I don't feel I should have to abandon my militia, corp, friends, and roleplay elements I've set up for myself to go fight in the "correct" militia for it. Making these ships exclusive to their respective factions militias would be straitjacketing player decisions in developing their characters in the same way as other roleplay games that require "pure" builds to be even 75% effective. Don't limit us in this way, please. The openness and freedom of EVE are the best things about it.
B) Militia LP, under the current system, is insanely hard to get. Militia missions are simply too dangerous to be cost-effective, and the PVP LP doesn't seem to be generating any noticeable gains...
I'm not asking you to make these ships non-exclusive to militia because I hate faction war on principle or refuse to participate in it. On the contrary, I can't imagine myself *not* doing faction war. I know you guys have been working hard to "fix" it get more people involved, but I don't think this is a good way to go about that.
Thanks,
Kaito
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.09.08 21:39:00 -
[414]
Originally by: Kaito Kenshin B) Militia LP, under the current system, is insanely hard to get. Militia missions are simply too dangerous to be cost-effective, and the PVP LP doesn't seem to be generating any noticeable gains...
Quoting this, also easy solution is to make taking plexes and systems give LP. Easy hotfix while you work out something else imho.
Posting on-topic: I like the idea of giving all the faction BS spares, but wasn't the idea of giving ships more drone bay space while not increasing drone DPS the entire point of drone bandwidth? yet there are very few ships that have actually been given more versatility by that change - only the arbitrator line of ships. Is this additional drone flexibility going to be a "faction ship only" deal?
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.08 21:55:00 -
[415]
Edited by: Orakkus on 08/09/2009 22:00:17 Well, I'm only going to comment mainly on the Minmatar ships and what I think of them.
Fleet Issue Tempest - As much as I am glad you are putting your attention to this, your current fix might be good for the Standard issue tempest, but is too little for the Fleet issue. - Essentially, what you've done is removed 39k EHP Passive tanking(approximately 25% of what a shield tanking Fleet Tempest can achieve), and replaced it with a single double bonused turret and then reduced the shield recharge rate, which only adversely affects the Caldari and Minmatar shield tanks... and this was despite the fact that currently Amarr and Gallente ships field the best passive and active tanks. - You've made the ship more agile, and faster (and puts it in the realm of battlecruiser speeds).. which we'll just have to see how well it does in real combat for us to say, "Sweet!" or "WTF??!!", but kept the sig the same.. not sure how that will work out. - You've increased Caldari and Amarr targetting speed.. so now a minor Minmatar advantage no longer exists.
In the end, you've pulled the teeth of the Fleet Issue Tempest AND gave it less tank as well. You compensate us by adding a single double damaged turret which only is marginally better than the Siege Launcher that we would have had in there anyways (and that ONLY because of the double damage bonus that it would be marginally better). Sorry, I can't get behind this.. I'm very disappointed.. you've actually made the Tempest worse.. and I honestly didn't think that was possible.
Fleet Issue Typhoon - I'm not a big fan of the Typhoon mainly because that for a Tier one battleship, it requires an ungodly amount of SP just to fly the thing well. I'm also not a big fan because it does more damage using Torps than it ever would using ACs. The changes are ones that have been a long time in coming. But again, these changes look like better upgrades to a Standard Typhoon than to a serious Fleet Typhoon, especially in comparision to the other Navy Tier 1s.
- Arma get four slots? You just delivered to the Amarr pilots the Holy grail of ships. That thing will be a monster now, able to have full tackle, seven bonused weapons (the best ones in the game), Cap Booster, and Speed boost. If you had made no other changes than that, the Arma would still be a beast and a OMGWTFBBQ ship. And what practical things did the Typhoon get? A slight increase in DPS? No, because you are forced to use 5 ACs because of the PG constraints. A little better tank? Yeah, but only a tad better.
- Scorpion undergoes a dramatic change away from E-war and gets a major improvement in tanking and offense. This may be the new mission runner setup for the Caldari.
- Domi just makes me want to cry. This makes the Domi uber with an increase in capacitor, a 50% increase in tank, and an extra mid slot. I'm so shocked I'm speechless.
CCP Ytterbium, whoever is in control of balance.. um is clearly only balancing the Amarr, Caldari, and Gallente.. and is not giving a single rat's behind about the Minmatar. I don't even know how to express in words how one sided against the Minmatar this is. Even IF projectiles did get a boost.. it would have to be a GIANT, HUGE bonus to make up for this.. inexcusable.. suggestion.
How about this... instead of letting your devs with 150 to 200million SP play around with the ships to see if they are balanced.. make some new characters with only say 30mil SP, and THEN see how balanced these ships really are.
I am actually upset enough.. that I may just start training something other than Minmatar right now. I am just this.. flabbergasted that you in any way could believe, even under drugs, that this could be balanced. I'd probably have quit the game too if it weren't for the fact that I like my Corp so much.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Lady Aja
Caldari The Logistical Nightmare Underworld Excavators
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Posted - 2009.09.08 22:19:00 -
[416]
Originally by: RedSplat Edited by: RedSplat on 07/09/2009 19:00:17 For those wondering why Navy ships were priortized over Pirate,
The Playerbase is largely Carebear Missionrunners. They dont like to run missions for pirate factions as this exposes them to Lowsec and 0.0 and damages Empire Faction standings.
EDIT: And for those of you that dont think the Navy Domi is OP, you need to wake up and smell what you are standing in.
*******s. have you seen the carebears running missions in alliance spammed npc stations? its beyond a joke. even working for angel cartel has lost its appeal.
mind you i do miss runnign missions for them. they allowed me to pvp with ease. 1-2 mach bpcs a week depending on how hard i could force my self to mission. I upped my yearly income, Now up yours!
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Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2009.09.08 22:38:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Orakkus Even IF projectiles did get a boost..
Words like this give people false hope. Like they would.
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think?
Going to rembemer this. |
Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.08 23:06:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Uncle Smokey
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think?
Going to rembemer this.
Instant classic.
unbonused max skilled Siege Missile Launcher II with Rage Torps: 76.0dps double bonused max skilled Dual 425mm AC II with Hail: 73.2dps double bonused max skilled Dual 650mm AC II with Hail: 77.8dps double bonused max skilled 800mm AC II with Hail: 81.0dps
Now at least we know the value of a Minmatar slot - up to 5.0 dps!
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.09.08 23:37:00 -
[419]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 08/09/2009 23:37:00
Originally by: Mioelnir
Originally by: Uncle Smokey
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think?
Going to rembemer this.
Instant classic.
unbonused max skilled Siege Missile Launcher II with Rage Torps: 76.0dps double bonused max skilled Dual 425mm AC II with Hail: 73.2dps double bonused max skilled Dual 650mm AC II with Hail: 77.8dps double bonused max skilled 800mm AC II with Hail: 81.0dps
Now at least we know the value of a Minmatar slot - up to 5.0 dps!
You missed out the fact those torps aren't actually going to do that damage to anything smaller and faster than the death star. If anything compare them to other guns.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.08 23:44:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington You missed out the fact those torps aren't actually going to do that damage to anything smaller and faster than the death star. If anything compare them to other guns.
If anything you miss out on the fact that those ACs aren't going to do that damage to anything outside of their optimal becaue of the hit quality degradation associated with operating in falloff. If your're fitting your Tempest with 3 ambits and 3 gyros and hoping to play around in falloff around 20km, you are *literally* better off fitting cruise missiles and saving the rig slots. Projectiles just do **** damage for where they're supposed to be "strong".
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.08 23:52:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington You missed out the fact those torps aren't actually going to do that damage to anything smaller and faster than the death star. If anything compare them to other guns.
The current fleet Pest has 6 turrets and 4 launchers. Where would that "other turret" come from?
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.08 23:54:00 -
[422]
And you missed that fact that you can't hit anything other stopped Dread with Hail either.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 05:46:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Kaito Kenshin B) Militia LP, under the current system, is insanely hard to get. Militia missions are simply too dangerous to be cost-effective, and the PVP LP doesn't seem to be generating any noticeable gains...
Quoting this, also easy solution is to make taking plexes and systems give LP. Easy hotfix while you work out something else imho.
Posting on-topic: I like the idea of giving all the faction BS spares, but wasn't the idea of giving ships more drone bay space while not increasing drone DPS the entire point of drone bandwidth? yet there are very few ships that have actually been given more versatility by that change - only the arbitrator line of ships. Is this additional drone flexibility going to be a "faction ship only" deal?
FW LP is not all that hard to farm people, you just have to do it properly. I can get up to 17K LP for a SINGLE lvl 4 mission, and My associated connections skills are only at lvl 3.... 9 lvl 4's for a Navy Geddon. 3 lvl 4's for a Navy Omen with some LP to spare.
Granted not all of them are going to be worth that much, some are as low as say 8k lp for me.... --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.09.09 06:33:00 -
[424]
while we are doing silly comparisons
unbonused longrange weps with t2 ammo (completly disregarding that most weapon system stats are mostly balanced by ship bonuses no the weapons themselves) :
Weapon | optimal | falloff | dps | volley | cap | tracking | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Dual 250 S | 9 | 15 | 38 | 159 | 3.3 | 0.01641 | DHBeam S | 13 | 15 | 41 | 213 | 5.1 | 0.01641 | | | | | | | | Dual 250 F | 18 | 15 | 37 | 157 | 2.7 | 0.02187 | DHBeam F | 26 | 15 | 40 | 209 | 5.1 | 0.02187 | | | | | | | | Dual 250 L | 65 | 15 | 22 | 91 | 2.7 | 0.00547 | DHBeam L | 95 | 15 | 23 | 121 | 5.1 | 0.00547 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 1200Art S | 12 | 44 | 36 | 491 | 0.0 | 0.01055 | 350 Rail S | 14 | 25 | 40 | 213 | 3.9 | 0.01094 | MegaBeam S | 15 | 20 | 49 | 319 | 7.5 | 0.01436 | | | | | | | | 1200Art F | 24 | 44 | 32 | 444 | 0.0 | 0.01406 | 350 Rail F | 27 | 25 | 40 | 209 | 3.1 | 0.01459 | MegaBeam F | 30 | 20 | 48 | 314 | 7.5 | 0.01914 | | | | | | | | 1200Art L | 87 | 44 | 20 | 281 | 0.0 | 0.00352 | 350 Rail L | 97 | 25 | 23 | 121 | 3.1 | 0.00365 | MegaBeam L | 108 | 20 | 28 | 182 | 7.5 | 0.00479 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 1400Art S | 15 | 44 | 38 | 642 | 0.0 | 0.00844 | 425 Rail S | 18 | 30 | 42 | 292 | 4.1 | 0.00902 | Tachyon S | 17 | 25 | 53 | 478 | 7.9 | 0.01305 | | | | | | | | 1400Art F | 30 | 44 | 34 | 580 | 0.0 | 0.01125 | 425 Rail F | 36 | 30 | 42 | 288 | 3.3 | 0.01202 | Tachyon F | 33 | 25 | 52 | 471 | 7.9 | 0.01740 | | | | | | | | 1400Art L | 108 | 44 | 22 | 367 | 0.0 | 0.00281 | 425 Rail L | 130 | 30 | 24 | 167 | 3.3 | 0.00301 | Tachyon L | 119 | 25 | 30 | 273 | 7.9 | 0.00435 |
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Aionstar
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Posted - 2009.09.09 08:29:00 -
[425]
Quote: Gallente Navy Comet:
• Has been renamed to Federation Navy Comet • New slot layout: 3 high, 3 med, 4 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers • Fittings: 152 CPU, 40 powergrid • Bonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level • Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Tristan) • Dronebay increased to 30m3, drone bandwidth increased to 15m3 • Capacitor: 365 capacitor, 234.375s recharge (about 1.55 cap/s) • Speed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility • Sensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
ufff, you give hybrid bonuses and lowest base speed of ALL navy frigs? see: ANSlicer Speed: 390m/s, 3.3 agility, 5 low slots range laser +5% more damage bonus GNComet Speed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility, 4 low slot hybrid bonus, 3 small drones mmm... why not drone speed+damage bonus if it so slow?
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 15:48:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Aionstar
Quote: Gallente Navy Comet:
ò Has been renamed to Federation Navy Comet ò New slot layout: 3 high, 3 med, 4 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 152 CPU, 40 powergrid ò Bonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level ò Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Tristan) ò Dronebay increased to 30m3, drone bandwidth increased to 15m3 ò Capacitor: 365 capacitor, 234.375s recharge (about 1.55 cap/s) ò Speed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility ò Sensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
ufff, you give hybrid bonuses and lowest base speed of ALL navy frigs? see: ANSlicer Speed: 390m/s, 3.3 agility, 5 low slots range laser +5% more damage bonus GNComet Speed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility, 4 low slot hybrid bonus, 3 small drones mmm... why not drone speed+damage bonus if it so slow?
Do you have any idea how much MORE dps this ship is going to do then the slicer? Its got effectively 4 blasters AND 3 light drones vs the Slicers effective 4.5 lasers... --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Hull Blaster
Gallente Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.09.09 16:32:00 -
[427]
This is awesome stuff.... I think Gallente pilots have been praying for a navy domi for ages. I would prefer it to have bonuses like the ishtar though, focusing purely on drone bonuses. Would be a monster for level IV's
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.09.09 16:59:00 -
[428]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/09/2009 17:06:54
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Caldari Navy Hookbill: •New slot layout: 3 high, 5 med, 2 low slots, 3 launchers, no turrets •Fittings: 165 CPU, 37 powergrid •Bonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile velocity per level •Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Merlin) •Capacitor: 281 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.5 cap/s) •Speed: 370m/s, 3.3 agility •Sensor: 35km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 600mm scan resolution, 12 gravimetric sensor strength, 40m signature radius
So, basically, the firepower of a KESTREL with slightly more missile range but effed-up TARGETING range, bye-bye insane tanking power it used to have... WHAT THE HELL ?!? Seriously, leave it alone exactly the way it was, other than swapping some hardpoints around. You made it much worse.
We already have the Kestrel and the Harpy, and they're both "good enough" at what they do, but still they're pretty bad overall. Caldari DON'T NEED ANOTHER GORRAM' MISSILE FRIGATE, damn it ! Even leaving it exactly the way it is now would be decent.
Want to do something GOOD with it ? Turn it into a pure hybrid gun platform, NOT a pure missile boat. Leave the bonuses exactly as they are now, and give it 4 highslots with 4 turrets and 0 launchers. Adjust grid and CPU so it can fit the lowest tier of railguns without any kind of fiting mods. There you go, an useful Hookbill.
_
Info about our corp | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
L0RD V4D3R
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Posted - 2009.09.09 17:39:00 -
[429]
hhhmmm how about you think about players with low skills and bring out the ship everyone wants to see and thats a caldari navy drake
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wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2009.09.09 17:57:00 -
[430]
I've been playing around with a lot of fits and the 10% extra PG doesn't make up for the loss of the 50 calibration.
Lets say you're using Ancillary Current Router rigs and a PDS in the lows to fit 425mm rails and you upgrade to the Navy Domi then you will have to downgrade / lose one of your rigs and thus not freeing up any low slot (tried on a lot of different fits, the PG boost isn't strong enough).
Same thing with damage rigs. They use so much calibration that you can't 'bonus' fit them because of the extra PG. You're more likely to fit one to a regular Domi. Then there's the fact that their boost is pathetically low but that's another story.
More PG allows you to fit a bigger rep, but less calibration means you can fit one Nano Pump less. It's the same story with almost anything. For PvP the calibration is fine but for PvE fits where you push the ship to its limits the lost calibration means that you have to make up for some lost bonus with a new module / keeping a module.
If you want to make it a viable upgrade over the regular Domi you need to give it more calibration. As it stands it's insignificantly better in PvE and it's going to cost a hell of a lot more
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.09 18:49:00 -
[431]
Originally by: L0RD V4D3R hhhmmm how about you think about players with low skills and bring out the ship everyone wants to see and thats a caldari navy drake
navy battle cruisers! ftw
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.09 21:31:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Akita T We already have the Kestrel and the Harpy, and they're both "good enough" at what they do, but still they're pretty bad overall.
Did you mean the Harpy or the Hawk there? Because the Hawk isn't "good enough" it's pretty .... bad.
Quote: Turn it into a pure hybrid gun platform, NOT a pure missile boat.
I'd like a missile frigate that *works* tyvm. The Hawk doesn't *work*
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Elapidae
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Posted - 2009.09.09 21:55:00 -
[433]
Originally by: wallenbergaren I've been playing around with a lot of fits and the 10% extra PG doesn't make up for the loss of the 50 calibration.
Lets say you're using Ancillary Current Router rigs and a PDS in the lows to fit 425mm rails and you upgrade to the Navy Domi then you will have to downgrade / lose one of your rigs and thus not freeing up any low slot (tried on a lot of different fits, the PG boost isn't strong enough).
Same thing with damage rigs. They use so much calibration that you can't 'bonus' fit them because of the extra PG. You're more likely to fit one to a regular Domi. Then there's the fact that their boost is pathetically low but that's another story.
More PG allows you to fit a bigger rep, but less calibration means you can fit one Nano Pump less. It's the same story with almost anything. For PvP the calibration is fine but for PvE fits where you push the ship to its limits the lost calibration means that you have to make up for some lost bonus with a new module / keeping a module.
If you want to make it a viable upgrade over the regular Domi you need to give it more calibration. As it stands it's insignificantly better in PvE and it's going to cost a hell of a lot more
N.Domi will be an upgrade. The 350rail + sentry armour domi was already beat by the 425 rail + sentry shield domi, however required alot of faction mods to work. With +1 mid and a large cpu boost, it will be much easier to fit the sheld 425m rail domi, giving better dps and better rail range with AM.
As for the rig calibration, sucks if you were using 2x sentry damage, but most ppl seem to use (myself included) the sentry damage + 2x CCC rigs. With a shield domi, you can use sentry damage, CCC, -cap use on shield booster rig, which uses only 350 calib in total. Combined with teh increased capacitor and increased drone bay, n.domi is going to be an absolute beast for PvE.
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Cordo Draken
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Posted - 2009.09.09 22:12:00 -
[434]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships: General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
0.0 Ah, take away one of the main strengths of the Caldari. With all the Nuets out there, this makes perfect sense to surplunge the CNR completely! That kills that tank.
As with everyone else here I think, We enjoy the added goodies you guys at CCP develop for us, but seriously, it seems like not everything is thought out thoroughly. Many would argue favorites in the race category. Please don't make Caldari and Minmatar the red-headed step children you just bash around with nerf fury. It really kinda kills it for that half of the universe, and with all the posts to back, seems very obvious.
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wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2009.09.09 23:45:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Elapidae N.Domi will be an upgrade. The 350rail + sentry armour domi was already beat by the 425 rail + sentry shield domi, however required alot of faction mods to work. With +1 mid and a large cpu boost, it will be much easier to fit the sheld 425m rail domi, giving better dps and better rail range with AM.
As for the rig calibration, sucks if you were using 2x sentry damage, but most ppl seem to use (myself included) the sentry damage + 2x CCC rigs. With a shield domi, you can use sentry damage, CCC, -cap use on shield booster rig, which uses only 350 calib in total. Combined with teh increased capacitor and increased drone bay, n.domi is going to be an absolute beast for PvE.
Meh I don't want to shield tank it because you give up too many sweet mods
This fitting works with the navy domi though. I was hoping I would be able to fit another gun but there's not room for 2 ACR II rigs and thus not enough PG:
[Dominix Navy Issue, pimp] Ammatar Navy Large Armor Repairer Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Heavy 'Brave' Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800 True Sansha Stasis Webifier
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I
Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Garde II x5
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.09.10 00:10:00 -
[436]
Originally by: Cordo Draken
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships: General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
0.0 Ah, take away one of the main strengths of the Caldari. With all the Nuets out there, this makes perfect sense to surplunge the CNR completely! That kills that tank.
As with everyone else here I think, We enjoy the added goodies you guys at CCP develop for us, but seriously, it seems like not everything is thought out thoroughly. Many would argue favorites in the race category. Please don't make Caldari and Minmatar the red-headed step children you just bash around with nerf fury. It really kinda kills it for that half of the universe, and with all the posts to back, seems very obvious.
Who passive tanks BS anyway?
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.09.10 00:15:00 -
[437]
Give CCP some ideas boost the passive tanks
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.09.10 00:19:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 09/09/2009 17:12:27
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Caldari Navy Hookbill:
So, basically, the firepower of a KESTREL with slightly more missile range but effed-up TARGETING range, bye-bye insane tanking power it used to have... WHAT THE HELL ?!?
You made it much worse.
We already have the Kestrel and the Harpy, and they're both "good enough" at what they do, but still they're pretty bad overall. Caldari DON'T NEED ANOTHER GORRAM' MISSILE FRIGATE, damn it !
What they need is a Gorram Missle Frigate that does not Suck.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense. |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.10 03:55:00 -
[439]
How The Changes Affect Price: - Navy Slicer Price (Right now): 60M ISK - Republic Fleet Firetail Price: 37M ISK - Gallenty Navy Comet Price: 35M ISK - Caldari Navy Hookbill: 22M ISK
Tell me CCP: Which one of these did you do a good job on? And no, I'm not asking for that one to be nerfed. I really, really, really think that's the way faction frigs should perform. But can you please re-evaluate how this stuff is looking and fix it up a bit?
Thanks in advance, -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 04:03:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: NightmareX stuff
You know tempest is seriously broken when EVEN nightmareX says a mega will defeat the tempest!
That is absolute proof that Absolutely no one on their right minds would say the tempest line is well balanced.
now all we need is to convince deva that the "capless" weapons have no advantage. no rly, 625m¦ cargo - half cramped with ammo for projectiles and missiles - just leaves a way less room for cap charges than 600m¦ and a handful of 1m¦ lenses - putting the gist back into logistics |
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2009.09.10 04:52:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 09/09/2009 17:12:27
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Caldari Navy Hookbill:
WHAT THE HELL ?!?
What they need is a Gorram Missle Frigate that does not Suck.
Yeah. I would not be lining up to buy one of these ships, except as a novelty item. The new Comet though... 3 drones, plus a turret damage bonus? Hell yes. Do want. I'm buying some extras now in anticipation of this change.
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 04:58:00 -
[442]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 10/09/2009 05:01:29 Edited by: Letifer Deus on 10/09/2009 04:59:16
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Who passive tanks BS anyway?
awesome people?
Originally by: Andrea Griffin The new Comet though... 3 drones, plus a turret damage bonus? Hell yes. Do want. I'm buying some extras now in anticipation of this change.
It's basically a slower taranis with lower damage potential. I don't really get what people are so excited about. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Caldari Citizen 6524
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Posted - 2009.09.10 07:13:00 -
[443]
Originally by: L0RD V4D3R hhhmmm how about you think about players with low skills and bring out the ship everyone wants to see and thats a caldari navy drake
HAHA yeah Give them a "Caldari Navy" CHEAT-boat too haha
and don't forget to stuff a doomsday into it too, so they might stop whining this game to hell!
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Br41n
Amarr Pinky and the Brain corp
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Posted - 2009.09.10 09:42:00 -
[444]
WHAT ABOUT THE CRUISERS???
Those really need some love and tenderness tbh, they have the most potential to be used as a pvp ship but they are still not worth the isk because they are closer to the tech I counterpart than to the Tech II couterpart.
PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE, with icing on top FIX THE FACTION CRUISERS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.10 10:26:00 -
[445]
Yes, the fleet stabber needs nerfing to match the other matari faction boats...
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Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:39:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Lacen Wolk Edited by: Lacen Wolk on 04/09/2009 19:24:33 Would it be possible to add faction bonuses to frigs, for example Gallente Navy Comet: 5% bonus to scram range per level. That would make them way more useful than they are now.
o please god yes.. the current suggested faction frigs are nothing special... really still no reason to fly em... cumon ccp, get creative with them ships, they all look cool, and deserve to be unique _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:50:00 -
[447]
why does the Caldari have the Highest scan res! isnt that Minmatars job?! _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:12:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: NightmareX stuff
You know tempest is seriously broken when EVEN nightmareX says a mega will defeat the tempest!
That is absolute proof that Absolutely no one on their right minds would say the tempest line is well balanced.
now all we need is to convince deva that the "capless" weapons have no advantage. no rly, 625m¦ cargo - half cramped with ammo for projectiles and missiles - just leaves a way less room for cap charges than 600m¦ and a handful of 1m¦ lenses
It wont happen mate. If you think capless weapon system is not an advantage - put cap use equal to blasters. And then you can go to blaster damage level for all i care.
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:18:00 -
[449]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/09/2009 12:25:05
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: NightmareX stuff
You know tempest is seriously broken when EVEN nightmareX says a mega will defeat the tempest!
That is absolute proof that Absolutely no one on their right minds would say the tempest line is well balanced.
now all we need is to convince deva that the "capless" weapons have no advantage. no rly, 625m¦ cargo - half cramped with ammo for projectiles and missiles - just leaves a way less room for cap charges than 600m¦ and a handful of 1m¦ lenses
Not only that.
But the thing i really don't understand is why does CCP have to remove one med slot on the Fleet Tempest only because it can use one more turret instead of using 6 turrets and 2 launchers.
The Tempest / Fleet Tempest can already use 8 weapons, so why remove one med slot on the Fleet Tempest only because of one extra turret?. It's not like your adding more weapon hardpoints on the ship.
Are CCP to scared that the Fleet Tempest is going to be overpowered because one turret will do like 20-40 more DPS than a launcher fitted?.
.
EDIT: This is how the normal Tempest should be. 8-5-6 slot layout. 8 Weapon hardpoints, 7 turret hardpoints, 4x launcher hardpoints. Keep same ship bonuses.
This is how the Fleet Tempest should be. 8-6-6 slot layout. 8 Weapon hardpoints, 7 turret hardpoints, 4x launcher hardpoints. Keep same ship bonuses.
After that, boost the projectiles and be done with it, because it's needed. After that, we have a good Tempest / Fleet Tempest.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:22:00 -
[450]
Originally by: NightmareX
The Tempest / Fleet Tempest can already use 8 weapons, so why remove one med slot only because of one extra turret?. It's not like your adding more weapon hardpoints on the ship.
I hope you do know that raven can also use 8 weapons (6 launcher+4 turret slots) and yet CNR doesnt get another slot.
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:26:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: NightmareX
The Tempest / Fleet Tempest can already use 8 weapons, so why remove one med slot only because of one extra turret?. It's not like your adding more weapon hardpoints on the ship.
I hope you do know that raven can also use 8 weapons (6 launcher+4 turret slots) and yet CNR doesnt get another slot.
Read up on my edited comment.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:31:00 -
[452]
Posted before edit :)
7 turrets... dunno. cba to count DPS now but i doubt it would be a big problem.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:31:00 -
[453]
hmm... let's see...
Amarr buff: check Caldari buff: check Gallente buff: check Minmatar nerf: check
===============
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:34:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Posted before edit :)
7 turrets... dunno. cba to count DPS now but i doubt it would be a big problem.
CCP have already given the Fleet Tempest a 7th turret slot, so it's not a big problem after all. It must be fine as long they give it the extra turret slot.
And if it's not a problem, then the normal Tempest should get it to.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:37:00 -
[455]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Posted before edit :)
7 turrets... dunno. cba to count DPS now but i doubt it would be a big problem.
CCP have already given the Fleet Tempest a 7th turret slot, so it's not a big problem after all. It must be fine as long they give it the extra turret slot.
And if it's not a problem, then the normal Tempest should get it to.
You are stepping on dangerous ground here. Why not give 7 launchers to raven? CCP gave it to CNR and it wasnt big issue. See?
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Aionstar
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:52:00 -
[456]
Originally by: SuiJuris
Originally by: Aionstar
Quote: Gallente Navy Comet:
• Has been renamed to Federation Navy Comet • New slot layout: 3 high, 3 med, 4 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers • Fittings: 152 CPU, 40 powergrid • Bonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level • Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Tristan) • Dronebay increased to 30m3, drone bandwidth increased to 15m3 • Capacitor: 365 capacitor, 234.375s recharge (about 1.55 cap/s) • Speed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility • Sensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
ufff, you give hybrid bonuses and lowest base speed of ALL navy frigs? see: ANSlicer Speed: 390m/s, 3.3 agility, 5 low slots range laser +5% more damage bonus GNComet Speed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility, 4 low slot hybrid bonus, 3 small drones mmm... why not drone speed+damage bonus if it so slow?
Do you have any idea how much MORE dps this ship is going to do then the slicer? Its got effectively 4 blasters AND 3 light drones vs the Slicers effective 4.5 lasers...
try to read again... "Effectively" in same class its got that unbonused 3 drones, nothing more. Blasters, as main weapon, need speed. Comet must be fast with blasters or slow with drones. So, "why not drone speed+damage bonus..."???
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 12:52:00 -
[457]
Edited by: NightmareX on 10/09/2009 12:55:18
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Posted before edit :)
7 turrets... dunno. cba to count DPS now but i doubt it would be a big problem.
CCP have already given the Fleet Tempest a 7th turret slot, so it's not a big problem after all. It must be fine as long they give it the extra turret slot.
And if it's not a problem, then the normal Tempest should get it to.
You are stepping on dangerous ground here. Why not give 7 launchers to raven? CCP gave it to CNR and it wasnt big issue. See?
First of all, the normal Raven is good enough with 6 launcher slots, so it doesn't need one more. The CNR got one extra launcher slot because it's a faction ship and it's a better version of the normal Raven.
When you consider it that the Tempest sucks badly in 90% of all situations, then the normal Tempest deserves to get one turret extra to begin with. It have needed it for years already. The Tempest does need that without taking the other BS'es into comparsion. The normal Tempest will still do lower DPS and still have much more crappier tank than the normal Mega, so i don't see a problem with that.
And 2ndly, the Fleet Tempest have already got the 7th turret slot, but don't remove the 6th med slot. The 6th med slot is the only thing that makes the Fleet Tempest worth to fly.
CCP can dream to get me to use a Fleet Tempest if it doesn't have 6 med slot. Because when i know the new Navy Mega will be here, that is also pretty awesome, because you can now possibly fit 7x t2 Neutrons, 1x Heavy Neut, 100MN MWD II, 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II, 3x 1600mm RTP's without problems.
Then why should i choose a Fleet Tempest over the Navy Mega then if the Fleet Tempest only have 5 med slots?.
Because most of the EW's today sucks on a Tempest with 5 med slots, then you don't have enough EW to make it worth it tbh as long you need the MWD, Disruptor, Web and the Cap Injector.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
BarfCo
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Posted - 2009.09.10 14:15:00 -
[458]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 8 high, 4 med, 7 low, 5 turrets, 5 launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 13125 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9316), armor (9316) and shields (8203)* òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10% òSensor: +25% ladar sensor strength
* Standard Typhoon armor and shield values have been swapped as well[/quote
It's a shame that you choose to step away from the legendary split weapon setup of the phoon.
It would still need both weapon upgrades to shine so instead of trying to get pilots to choose turrets or launchers over the other and ending up gimping the 3 part of their 5/3 layout stick with 4/4 and give it an extra mid. or low slot and I can do so much more with a extra mid. or low slot.
It would make the Phoon even more "Versatile".
Lest not forget these Epic words:
- The Typhoon - Much praised by its proponents and much maligned by its detractors, the Typhoon-class battleship has always been one of the most hotly debated spacefaring vessels around. Its distinguishing aspect - and the source of most of the controversy - is its sheer versatility, variously seen as either a lack of design focus or a deliberate freedom for pilot modification.
- A CCP Employee trying to make sense of the Phoon design.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.10 15:59:00 -
[459]
say, you two... i find it disturbing to see balancing posts with unrealistic assumptions of tempests and phoons fully fitted for damage. i'm sure as mega or geddon pilot, it's ok to fill all possible slots with weapons since you still have the room for an extra neut/RR. on top of that. but minnies don't work that way. although it's true that i don't roam low-sec all that often nor do i dwell on sisi - nor do i test anything other than yet another scimitar fitting there. but i'd like to think that i've lived in null-sec long enough and got to know quite a few alliances (~'s fitting boards) to say that RR is a must-have in any celestial direction of new eden. iow, there is just no missiles on "proper" tempests; they will never come with eight weapons.
therefore these buggers, both phoon and pest, in each regular or faction form, should be balanced with only one set of weapons (plus drones) in mind, powergrid being the obvious and usual limit. so what if they _theoretically_ could dish out 10-20% more? the matari-typical disadvantage in HP, is enough to cancel that out. same for all matari hulls, really.... it's not the muninn's fault that HAC-pew just doesnt take place within 50km anymore (unless you jump in; for those few seconds it takes to leadfoot away...)
no, this isn't one of those caldari-"i want it all"-posts either. it's the same discussion we had with tux about the cane - and at least that one has a mentionable chance of speed and/or oversized extenders on its side.
on paper, yes, one could have a omfgbbqweeeee dps machine - only for carebearing and only vs angels. for pvp, this would be the only way to achieve balance - putting the gist back into logistics |
Xavier Sunder
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Posted - 2009.09.10 16:59:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Mioelnir unbonused max skilled Siege Missile Launcher II with Rage Torps: 76.0dps double bonused max skilled Dual 425mm AC II with Hail: 73.2dps double bonused max skilled Dual 650mm AC II with Hail: 77.8dps double bonused max skilled 800mm AC II with Hail: 81.0dps
I just got to point out a few things about torps/missiles in general. Using Rage torps is generally a bad idea as the only targets they will do full dmg to are capitals, even the biggest BS will require a max painter to do full dmg. Anything smaller, even sitting completely still and you'll be doing miniscule dmg. They are the slowest speed, shortest range, by far slowest explosion speed, biggest explosion radius torps there are. Their base speed is 1250 m/s modified by your stats. Think about how many ships can outrun that or if not outrun it, outlast it. As it's only got 6.4 seconds to hit you, and if you're moving even 500, that's a big deal.
As for Ravens being the "best sniper boat in the game." I might buy that if you are sniping a POS and know what kind it is beforehand. Otherwise, I'll take instant hit weapons any day over missiles that take literally 25 seconds to reach their target.
I know all weapon systems have issues like this. Such as speed and traverse etc. But let's not use as examples shooting at stationary motherships with ammo that no one uses in practical situations, because it's just not remotely realistic.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.10 17:18:00 -
[461]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 10/09/2009 17:21:45
Originally by: Xavier Sunder I just got to point out a few things about torps/missiles in general. Using Rage torps is generally a bad idea as the only targets they will do full dmg to are capitals, even the biggest BS will require a max painter to do full dmg. Anything smaller, even sitting completely still and you'll be doing miniscule dmg. They are the slowest speed, shortest range, by far slowest explosion speed, biggest explosion radius torps there are. Their base speed is 1250 m/s modified by your stats. Think about how many ships can outrun that or if not outrun it, outlast it. As it's only got 6.4 seconds to hit you, and if you're moving even 500, that's a big deal.
Hail is similarly unusable as Rage Torps in that regard, you only hit webbed moons. I just used Hail for this example because Hail has the same amount of raw damage as the blaster and pulse laser damage t2 ammo, whereas EMP has reduced base damage compared to Antimatter and Multifrequency. After going T2 Damage Ammo with the turrets, also going T2 Damage Ammo with the launcher seemed reasonable. Both ammo types don't apply their theoretical paper dps in most fights.
Quote: As for Ravens being the "best sniper boat in the game."
I said that about the Apoc, not the Raven. At least I intended to. It is a admittedly a bit confusingly located in the paragraph about both the CNR and the Navpoc getting the +25% scan resolution. It was never my intention though to imply that the Raven is a sniping BS.
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speacila pool
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Posted - 2009.09.10 17:52:00 -
[462]
so you are adding a extra turret to the fleet tempest, adding to the possible dps, but with taking away the 6th mid you are making the best tanking fit armor, which would take away from the possible dps to fit a tank.
does ccp even think when they buff ships. or do they just try to find ways of taking a good idea for a mimi ship and ****ing it all up. realy i had high hopes for the fleet tempy but yet again ccp fails at fixxing the problems they just push mimitar back farther evry time.
leave the 6th mid slot
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Grady Eltoren
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Posted - 2009.09.10 19:59:00 -
[463]
ARGH - Hopefully constructive. Having to retype this because the darn forum logged me out for inactivity.
1) Appreciate the look and boost idea with Navy & Faction ships - that is how they should be - a cut above. 2) I picked Minmatar because I like the underdog idea but I agree and hope you (CCP) take into account what people are saying here that Min is too much so. I picked Minmatar because I wanted someone who took a longer time to get good at but if I stuck with it the payoffs would be great. I am approaching 30 mil SP now and where is the light at the end of the tunnel? I am glad you finally understand the detriment of proj turrets and are going to look at them - but when?!?! 3) Turrets - Why do we all have to train so darn long to use them for the same IF NOT LESS dps? I have to train small, and med turret specializations just to use the large specialization? Yet Missile users don't have to do the same to train the bigger end of their dps spectrum. Why isn't that squared up? Why don't cruise missile spec skills require missile specialization and then heavy missile specialization? 4) Speed - Great Minmatar get a little faster but it doesn't amount to jack when a) your turrets can't hit the broad side of a silo and someone can web you. We have warp core optimizers, why not a bonus on minmatar to tracking disruptors or sensor damps as well as target painters? Help us out here. Why not an anti web device like the warp core stab is to scrams? 5) I have started training towards the cynabal, mach (even though those were nerfed too) and eventually domi because you have killed my hope in the minmatar Race. Like everyone says - might as well get rid of them. So much for the long shot.
Grady
P.S. Is it just me or has dps from projectiles dropped since APOC? I noticed this the same way we all noticed loot/salvage from missions dropped without an official note on the patch.
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Hull Blaster
Gallente Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.09.10 23:48:00 -
[464]
I don't really understand why these new ships will only be available through factional warfare. The Comet and Navy Megathron are available through the LP store in Federal Navy stations. Are you suggesting the Comet will now only be bought through FW LP?? It makes no logical sense to get the Navy Megathron yet from the Federal Navy yet unable to buy the Navy Dominix unless you go PvP, its from the same Navy which is the same corp!
Please CCP, let us buy these new ships from the NPC corps outside of FW. Restrict them to the Navy corps of that faction fine, but don't keep them exclusively for FW.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 00:45:00 -
[465]
well... they can be traded in for FW LP "exlusively" but those guys can happily sell them ofc. FW store needs something exclusive or it'll be impossible to compete with macro-missioners over the very same items (unless FW were to give away more LP than any raven/dominix could farm....) the new implant sets aren't able to do that job (alone) - putting the gist back into logistics |
ALex Vega
Caldari Genesis Rising
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Posted - 2009.09.11 00:55:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Hull Blaster I don't really understand why these new ships will only be available through factional warfare. The Comet and Navy Megathron are available through the LP store in Federal Navy stations. Are you suggesting the Comet will now only be bought through FW LP?? It makes no logical sense to get the Navy Megathron yet from the Federal Navy yet unable to buy the Navy Dominix unless you go PvP, its from the same Navy which is the same corp!
Please CCP, let us buy these new ships from the NPC corps outside of FW. Restrict them to the Navy corps of that faction fine, but don't keep them exclusively for FW.
Lol the entire point for the tier 1 faction BSs being from FW is CCP trying to funnel more people into it. I think its fine having the 4 new ones from FW
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Frosteye
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Posted - 2009.09.11 02:27:00 -
[467]
My guess is the push for FW is to get the player base into it more to help with Dust 514. Which BTW since I mentioned it - Dust 514 - not only is it about time that someone finally did this (linking a FPS with a larger strategy game all in one so to say) but how cool is it that EVE happens to rock with a real economy and Dust's graphics look amazing.
Back to pt though - not sure I like being pushed into anything per se - but then again you have to give CCP some leeway to do what will work long term I guess.
Other thoughts - fix minmatar.
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Tau Dades
Caldari Even End of the Universe
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Posted - 2009.09.11 04:46:00 -
[468]
Where's my Cally Navy Drake?
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tical31
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Posted - 2009.09.11 07:20:00 -
[469]
Sorry i didnt read all post, but are there some changes for faction cruiser ?
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Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.09.11 08:25:00 -
[470]
Only really skimmed the topic but i'd have thought to see a similar bonus to the tier 2 ships as the marauders get, only a step less so like bonussed to 7 turrets instead of 8 or something. All in all the ideas look sound. Ohhh and Navy Domi equals teh pure sexeh, fapfapfap and all that. ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.09.11 11:48:00 -
[471]
Originally by: tical31 Sorry i didnt read all post, but are there some changes for faction cruiser ?
no. only frig and bs
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.09.11 12:09:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Akita T ...I _DEMAND_ you radically buff rockets
+1
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.11 15:17:00 -
[473]
Edited by: Ulstan on 11/09/2009 15:26:11
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Scorpion Navy Issue:
We felt that a navy version of an ECM boat would be a bit over the top in term of balance, while not providing an enjoyable role for combat. This ship now indeed has less DPS than a Raven Navy Issue on paper, but that's not its purpose to specialize in damage. It focuses on tank over gank, or allows its pilot to fit regular PvP tackling equipment while keeping some decent shield buffer tank. All of this without saying (ok I said it) that it has two slots left for utilities or guns than can still be quite an edge in combat.
I'm still a little concerned about this. I agree entirely with the decision not to make it an ECM boat. Faction BS sized ECM boat = instant primary, insta dead, every time.
But 'tank' is not a role in PvP. A less damaging, shorter range raven with more EHP is not all that attractive, especially as an expensive faction ship.
Fitting regular PvP tackle gear while still having a shield tank is only really an advantage if you are looking to solo, where you might think such a trade worth the lesser firepower. But we want the scorp to be useful in gangs too, where you let faster locking ships do all the tackling.
If the scorp was essentially a raven that gave up one launcher for +1 utility high and a larger drone bay, that might be pretty inriguing - as long as it had the PG to make use of that utility high (which means 2x heavy neuts, basically)
Right now the raven has 6 missiles, 2 utility highs, but not enough PG to really use 2x heavy neuts. The navy scorp has 5 missiles, 2 utility highs, but also not enough PG to really use 2x heavy neuts.
I do not currently see any compelling reason why a PvP pilot would want to fly a Navy scorpion over a base raven, given the differences in costs
The scorpion does less dps, at less range, and has similar fitting issues preventing it from making use of the 2x heavy neuts. If it had +1 utility slot compared to the raven and the PG to use it, or if it had the same DPS as the base raven instead of less, it could conceivably be considered worth the extra money.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.11 15:55:00 -
[474]
Edited by: Ulstan on 11/09/2009 16:02:31 Also, either make the hookbill be a railboat or, and this is my preferred choice, make the merlin be a railboat and fix rockets to not suck horribly :p
I echo the feelings that the 5/5 hp layout is good for the normal phoon.
Still concerned the 6 med slot dominix will be an overpowered monster - it can mount the same shield tank a raven can while still having 7 low slots and a huge drone bay.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.11 17:14:00 -
[475]
Quote: But 'tank' is not a role in PvP. At all. A less damaging, shorter range raven with more EHP is not all that attractive, especially as an expensive faction ship.
Quote: Right now the raven has 6 missiles, 2 utility highs, but not enough PG to really use 2x heavy neuts. The navy scorp has 5 missiles, 2 utility highs, but also not enough PG to really use 2x heavy neuts.
Quote: Why is this a good plan?
Quote: I do not currently see any compelling reason why a PvP pilot would want to fly a Navy scorpion over a base raven, given the differences in costs. Current navy scorp is a ship without a role.
Quote: The scorpion does less dps, at less range, and has similar fitting issues preventing it from making use of the 2x heavy neuts. If it had +1 utility slot compared to the raven and the PG to use it, or if it had the same DPS as the base raven instead of less, it could conceivably be considered worth the extra money.
Quote: And there's no point in saying the navy scorp makes the ultimate RR shield boat. Shield RR's have an absurdly high CPU cost almost no one can fit them. And anyway, the base T1 Raven can fit one more than the navy scorp.
Great post.
CCP Ytterbium what exactly is the ships role as you envision?
Can you provide us with an attractive and viable pvp fit with this new ship, particularly in comparision to the UTTERPWNESS of the others?
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Soulita
Gallente Inner Core
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Posted - 2009.09.11 20:59:00 -
[476]
OMG OMG OMG!!!
A navy dominix !
Yea I guess its old news but I just heard it today...
/me trys to rip the t2 rigs from my standard domi
ah well, guess I got to buy some new t2rigs for that baby when it hits my hangar and get a new sig...
Anyways thanks CCP, oh thanks...
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Techno Dog
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.11 21:36:00 -
[477]
Edited by: Techno Dog on 11/09/2009 21:39:59
Originally by: BarfCo It's a shame that you choose to step away from the legendary split weapon setup of the phoon.
It would still need both weapon upgrades to shine so instead of trying to get pilots to choose turrets or launchers over the other and ending up gimping the 3 part of their 5/3 layout stick with 4/4 and give it an extra mid. or low slot and I can do so much more with a extra mid. or low slot.
It would make the Phoon even more "Versatile".
Lest not forget these Epic words:
- The Typhoon - Much praised by its proponents and much maligned by its detractors, the Typhoon-class battleship has always been one of the most hotly debated spacefaring vessels around. Its distinguishing aspect - and the source of most of the controversy - is its sheer versatility, variously seen as either a lack of design focus or a deliberate freedom for pilot modification.
- A CCP Employee trying to make sense of the Phoon design.
Even if i jump for joy after i see the Navy 'phoon stats, i actually feel the right point in this message. The 'phoon is a really "not-the-best-for-anything-still-good-for-anything" ship in the game. With the 5/5 turret/launcher layout, the ship lost this title, no question to fitting the 'phoon for 5 Cruise or 5 Siege launcher are the way everyone become to use.
A fast thinked solution a little boost in the BS skill based DPS bonus, it's solve the "better DPS then normal 'phoon" problem, and solve the "loosing the 'phoon feeling" problem too...
The 5% bonus for large projectile and siege/cruise boosted for 7,5% is seems to be enough.
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Darth Skorpius
Crystalline INC Dead End Society
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Posted - 2009.09.11 22:32:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Akita T We already have the Kestrel and the Harpy, and they're both "good enough" at what they do, but still they're pretty bad overall.
Did you mean the Harpy or the Hawk there? Because the Hawk isn't "good enough" it's pretty .... bad.
Quote: Turn it into a pure hybrid gun platform, NOT a pure missile boat.
I'd like a missile frigate that *works* tyvm. The Hawk doesn't *work*
-Liang
im assuming she means hte hawk, as the harpy isnt a missile boat ______________________________________________ Waiting for some random to make me a new sig |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.11 23:06:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
You are stepping on dangerous ground here. Why not give 7 launchers to raven? CCP gave it to CNR and it wasnt big issue. See?
yes please 7 launcher raven and extra mid slot on the cnr! </sarcasm>
the difference is the raven is already a viable, maybe even a good ship. and the cnr is a great ship.
the tempest, well lol
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.11 23:27:00 -
[480]
Originally by: Soporo
Great post.
Lower DPS than a Raven, check. Shorter range than a Raven, check. Still can't fit 2 hvy neuts, check. Same tired ole fitting issues, check. Still can't fit remote shield reps, check. Same crap drone bay and slowest, check. 10 or 20 tinmes the cost of a Raven, check. A little more EHP, check.
CCP Ytterbium what exactly is the ships role as you envision?
Can you provide us with an attractive and viable pvp fit with this new ship particularly in comparision to the pricetag, not to mention the UTTERPWNESS of the others?
Um. Hrm. Yeah. I'm unexcited about the Navy Scorp and Phoon myself. But the Navy Geddon and Navy Domi are looking Pretty Sexy!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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Endless Subversion
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.12 02:49:00 -
[481]
You guys are nuts. The CN Scorp is by far the best ship in the bunch. I can't get over how awesome it is. I'm only posting at all because I'm terrified y'all will get it changed.
It's everything you could possible want from a small gang bs. 8 mids! A resist bonus! A torp RoF bonus?!! 2 utility highs, the perfect number of lows for a shield gank boat and a built in 25% ecm resistance bonus AND the highest base sensor strength out there. Holy cow. Want, want badly. And I see 'tank' as a massive role in my everyday pvp. I'm just not a part of the blob boredom that most of you guys are arguing about.
I saw Gypsio complaining about how it doesn't do anything that the raven, golem or CNR doesn't do already and do better. Yes it does.
Golem can't handle ecm at all, and by the very fact it's a marauder means everyone uses ecm vs it. Plus golem fitting is crap (pg especially) and trying to actually use 3x utility highs with its fitting is a bad joke.
Raven has great dps at the cost of forgetting a tank or the tackle to actually get your full dps. It might be better in a larger gang, but I never fly in gangs large enough to see it. It can't active tank for squat and its passive buffers are very heavily outdone by the slaved armor variants.
CNR is a higher dps raven with even less fitting for tank and even better stats for mediocre buffer tanks with a huge price tag and giant bullseye.
CN Scorp is perfect. Finally a torp boat with the mids and fitting to actually fit a tank that doesn't fail and still get enough tackle on there. 2 high utility for either extra gun gank, remote shield [yes it DOES fit], or whatever else you can dream up.
It's basically a giant crystal AC mael or blaster rokh. But with more tank, better tackle, utility highs and dmg color of your choice.
This thing is epic!
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.12 03:19:00 -
[482]
Quote: It's everything you could possible want from a small gang bs. 8 mids! A resist bonus! A torp RoF bonus?!! 2 utility highs, the perfect number of lows for a shield gank boat and a built in 25% ecm resistance bonus AND the highest base sensor strength out there. Holy cow. Want, want badly. And I see 'tank' as a massive role in my everyday pvp. I'm just not a part of the blob boredom that most of you guys are arguing about.
Christ...Dev alt/fan-boy much? Oh sure. Now please go ahead and give us a viable t2 fit (worthy of a 1 bil ship, in comparision to the new Domi or Geddon) using your EFT magic.
Go ahead and fit t2 torps (only 5 so dps sucks, lame range btw, no expl velocity bonus even), your 2 hvy neuts, mwd, and painters (you need these now of course) tank, and your 1 "gank mod" in the lows (because you will be forced to use numerous fitting mods) and tell me how that stacks up to the new Geddon or Domi. Now enjoy your typical miniscule Cald drone bay, idiotic grid/fitting, slowness, big sig, crap dps and lame range..... BUT HEY YOU CAN TANK!!111
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Endless Subversion
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.12 04:01:00 -
[483]
Quote: Christ...Dev alt/fan-boy much? Oh sure. Now please go ahead and give us a viable t2 fit (worthy of a 1 bil ship, in comparision to the new Domi or Geddon) using your EFT magic.
Go ahead and fit t2 torps (only 5 so dps sucks, lame range btw, no expl velocity bonus even), your 2 hvy neuts, mwd, and painters (you need these now of course) tank, and your 1 "gank mod" in the lows (because you will be forced to use numerous fitting mods) and tell me how that stacks up to the new Geddon or Domi. Now enjoy your typical miniscule Cald drone bay, idiotic grid/fitting, slowness, big sig, crap dps and lame range..... BUT HEY YOU CAN TANK!!111
You think I'm an alt? You must not watch pvp videos. Give me a few months after this patch goes live and I'll give you a video of using this. I'm already buying mods for it.
t2 fitting a faction battleship is pretty dumb. There's a lot of affordable faction out there that makes this loads better.
Fit depends too much on what you're trying to do. I'm looking to use it in a 3 man BS gang and have fits for that. I have no idea what you're trying to do (besides whine), so I won't begin to try to guess how you'd need it fit.
Hint: If you're in some blob gang where lock time and instant dmg determines who rates highest on the killmail this ship isn't going to be for you. But just because it doesn't fit your style of pvp (imo boring) that doesn't mean it isn't EPIC for someone else's (MINE!!). Break out of your box.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.12 04:43:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Soporo Oh sure. Now please go ahead and give us a viable t2 fit (worthy of a 1 bil ship, in comparision to the new Domi or Geddon) using your EFT magic.
Navy Scorp 5x Siege II, AN Hvy Neut, Med Nos II Quad Lif, 2x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, Scram II, 2x PWNAGE 3x CN BCU, DC II 3x CDFE I 5x Hammerhead II, 5x Warrior II
Rough calcs: - 120K EHP - 990 DPS (1141 Overheat ~2 Mins)
Meh, I dunno. Not worth a lot of ISK to me. Active tanking it seems hard because you'll have to use a grid mod for the cap booster.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 05:33:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Soporo Oh sure. Now please go ahead and give us a viable t2 fit (worthy of a 1 bil ship, in comparision to the new Domi or Geddon) using your EFT magic.
Navy Scorp 5x Siege II, AN Hvy Neut, Med Nos II Quad Lif, 2x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, Scram II, 2x PWNAGE 3x CN BCU, DC II 3x CDFE I 5x Hammerhead II, 5x Warrior II
Rough calcs: - 120K EHP - 990 DPS (1141 Overheat ~2 Mins)
Meh, I dunno. Not worth a lot of ISK to me. Active tanking it seems hard because you'll have to use a grid mod for the cap booster.
-Liang
wanna play eft then?
133k ehp, and 1265 dps (1328 dps with my implants/skills). bit short on cpu now (fixed with 1% cpu implant), but with the added cpu it will fit easily, dunno 100% what the pg increase will do to it either.
[Raven Navy Issue, Pvp!] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II
Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Scrambler II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5
navy scorp blows dude!
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.09.12 05:49:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Soporo Oh sure. Now please go ahead and give us a viable t2 fit (worthy of a 1 bil ship, in comparision to the new Domi or Geddon) using your EFT magic.
Navy Scorp 5x Siege II, AN Hvy Neut, Med Nos II Quad Lif, 2x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, Scram II, 2x PWNAGE 3x CN BCU, DC II 3x CDFE I 5x Hammerhead II, 5x Warrior II
Rough calcs: - 120K EHP - 990 DPS (1141 Overheat ~2 Mins)
Meh, I dunno. Not worth a lot of ISK to me. Active tanking it seems hard because you'll have to use a grid mod for the cap booster.
-Liang
Now try to calculate a simple armageddon. 120k effective HP and almost 1400 DPS with overheat ?
And now create a monster with over 200k effective HP ? You could to compare with Navy Scorp too. /Sarcasm off
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.12 05:50:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Soporo Oh sure. Now please go ahead and give us a viable t2 fit (worthy of a 1 bil ship, in comparision to the new Domi or Geddon) using your EFT magic.
Navy Scorp 5x Siege II, AN Hvy Neut, Med Nos II Quad Lif, 2x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, Scram II, 2x PWNAGE 3x CN BCU, DC II 3x CDFE I 5x Hammerhead II, 5x Warrior II
Rough calcs: - 120K EHP - 990 DPS (1141 Overheat ~2 Mins)
Meh, I dunno. Not worth a lot of ISK to me. Active tanking it seems hard because you'll have to use a grid mod for the cap booster.
-Liang
well comparing to the rohk it should be about 150k ehp as the navy scorp has a bit more base hp then the rohk and the same skills with a similar fit the rohk hits 144k hp.
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Endless Subversion
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.12 06:11:00 -
[488]
Oh surprise. It doesn't beat the CNR at dmg dealing.
Try an active tank on it.
Also, 133k EHP is chump change for HP. That's a dead CNR and quick.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.12 06:36:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Oh surprise. It doesn't beat the CNR at dmg dealing.
Try an active tank on it.
Also, 133k EHP is chump change for HP. That's a dead CNR and quick.
Yeah. It's pretty obvious its not gonna really be spectacular as a HP tank.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 07:52:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Endless Subversion Oh surprise. It doesn't beat the CNR at dmg dealing.
Try an active tank on it.
Also, 133k EHP is chump change for HP. That's a dead CNR and quick.
Yeah. It's pretty obvious its not gonna really be spectacular as a HP tank.
-Liang
oh it could be good for pure hp buffet, it just wont be useful for anything else........
90% of why I buy a bs is for that everything else, the ability to fit a nice buffer tank is important but not that important
and see what I said above, the rohk with dc + 3 extender rigs + 2 lse + 2 invlun gets 144k ehp, the navy scorp will get 150k (probably a bit more). although you could always fit a 3rd or 4th extender, as well as an em, and/or thermal hardener. and still potentially have a point/mwd, or painter. the 8 midslots is some nice flexibility, but I'd rather have damage.
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Haxfar Portlaind
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Posted - 2009.09.12 09:32:00 -
[491]
Why, ohh why, can't the navy scorp be allowed for ecm bonusses?
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 11:25:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Haxfar Portlaind Why, ohh why, can't the navy scorp be allowed for ecm bonusses?
do you want a 1bil ship to be primary..? - putting the gist back into logistics |
Eelis Kiy
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.12 12:00:00 -
[493]
awaiting confirmation that new domi will be pink as per the original Sin teasers
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Flex Nebura
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.12 12:25:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Oh surprise. It doesn't beat the CNR at dmg dealing.
Try an active tank on it.
Also, 133k EHP is chump change for HP. That's a dead CNR and quick.
one thing I really like though is the signature, for once we have a ship that doesnt start out with a target painter pointed at it.
Might take a little less damage than a CNR, of course fitting a passive fit to it will quickly negate that little bonus
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wallenbergaren
|
Posted - 2009.09.12 13:38:00 -
[495]
Since you've given both a pirate cruiser and a pirate BS the exact same drone capabilities as the Navy Dominix is planned to have you need to give the Navy Domi something extra
It's not distinguished in its drone carrying role, and it's going to cost a crapload since it's from the FW LP store
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.12 16:02:00 -
[496]
Originally by: wallenbergaren It's not distinguished in its drone carrying role, and it's going to cost a crapload since it's from the FW LP store
CCP is obviously intent on rendering the Navy issues obsolete before the fact. All these pirate ships are heads, shoulders and tophats above anything else in game that their appearance on scanner alone will make people move on.
On the upside, they will be the cause of wars fought over space superiority in the Pirate regions of space to control the flow of LP
PS: FW LP is easy enough to acquire, price will settle around 750ISK/LP at current rate.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.12 16:34:00 -
[497]
Quote: navy scorp blows dude!
Obviously.
Blows worse than the new Rattlesnake even, which is quite sucktastic.
Ooo-raaa for the latest round of anti-missile boat Dev jackleggery.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.12 19:02:00 -
[498]
Originally by: wallenbergaren Since you've given both a pirate cruiser and a pirate BS the exact same drone capabilities as the Navy Dominix is planned to have you need to give the Navy Domi something extra
It's not distinguished in its drone carrying role, and it's going to cost a crapload since it's from the FW LP store
umm.. it has 6 guns with a 5% per level bonus? with 3 faction mag stabs, 6 350mm rails, faction antimatter, sentry damage rig, and 5 garde IIs you get over 1k dps. 521 from the guns and 495 dps from the drones.
4 cruise launchers with 4 bcus and faction cruise missiles will add a meh 274 dps with identical drone dps so a ***ping 769 dps. oh wait zomg 4 faction bcus with 4 faction launchers and faction missiles does 300 dps!!!! then you get a (not) awesome 795 dps.
hmm I know which one I currently would want. I give you a hint, it has navy in the name.
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Cersei
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.12 19:54:00 -
[499]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Adding more DPS is worth the slot don't you think?
The extra large projectile turret isn't even worth the neut it would be replacing, and certainly not a midslot.
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wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2009.09.12 20:00:00 -
[500]
What does gun dps have to do with drone carrying capabilities? Protip: don't use 6 350mm:s on a domi because they do f- all for damage at range which is not so hot since you give up your drone link augmentor and get a really low drone control range
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.12 21:55:00 -
[501]
Originally by: wallenbergaren What does gun dps have to do with drone carrying capabilities? Protip: don't use 6 350mm:s on a domi because they do f- all for damage at range which is not so hot since you give up your drone link augmentor and get a really low drone control range
5 350s will do 250 DPS at 50km with regular Thorium... that still leaves you with 80km drone control range which is sufficient.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Tom Hanks
Raype Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 01:27:00 -
[502]
Edited by: Tom Hanks on 13/09/2009 01:34:18 Edited by: Tom Hanks on 13/09/2009 01:33:35 Navy Scorp changes
More power grid Introduce an ECM burst cannon only Scorpions or Navy scorpions could equip. It has a range/fall off like other ecm modules, and causes a 5km-20km ecm burst originating from targeted enemy ship.
So the scorps could warp in with some range, ecm burst enemy groups, and have enough power grid to tank up themselves. Forget the damage bonus completely.
Remove the damage bonus, replace with shield resist bonus
Add the ability to use an ECM burst cannon, which is a targeted weapon.
Caldari Racial Purity
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darius mclever
|
Posted - 2009.09.13 04:51:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Inquisitor Cononach I always support more Faction/Special Ships, despite their (at times) exceptionally limited uses and inherant risks (specificly in PvP).
Hoever, I implore you CCP.....you've done such a wonderful job with the Khanid version of Amarr ship design, please consider one day giving us Amarrians our Khanid Battleship.
Every other race has an alternate weapons-platform option in the Battleship Class. Except Amarr.
You have the gorgious EoM Geddon Skin just sitting there, for a Khanid Torp Geddon.
Thanks for a great game, and I hope you'll consider this idea eventually.
Hell yes. Khanid Navy Abaddon. 6-7 launchers.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.13 05:12:00 -
[504]
Hmm, been a few days and no mention of the navy cruisers. I can't comment on most of them but both the navy omen and especially the augoror need some love. The navy omen is short on both cpu and grid. It can just barely fit an 800mm plate, single medium armor rep, afterburner and 5x focused medium pulses. For comparison, you can slap a 1600mm plate and a mwd onto a thorax with the midsized blasters without any trouble. So it needs a bit more fitting resources.
The navy augoror suffers from a problem common to many amarr ships: the complete lack of a damage bonus. I suggest dropping the cap usage bonus for a straight 5% damage bonus to turrets. Also, it's shortage of grid and cpu is extreme. You can currently fit guns or a plate/rep on it, not both. It's really one or the other because it's around 500 grid short for a t1 cruiser. CPU is less of an issue but could use a boost too. Both tiers of navy cruisers should be superior to t1 but that just isn't the case.
On a related note, many amarr ships suffer from a no damage bonus problem. Instead of it they have a cap bonus. The cap bonus makes those ships overly forgiving in pve while crippling them in pvp. I suggest all amarr ships with a turret cap usage bonus have it replaced with a straight 5% turret damage bonus. Doing so would make the prophecy, maller and navy apoc less of a joke.
The navy apoc currently does less damage and has less tank than the abaddon and paladin. The currently suggested revised version doesn't change that. In pvp the standard apoc is a great sniper ship but there is a difference between spending 100M isk on a throw away sniper boat and 550M for the same with only a slight increase in performance. The navy apoc needs to be able to compete with pulse lasers. Replacing the cap bonus with a 5% damage bonus will do just that. -----------------------------------------------------
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stolas
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Posted - 2009.09.13 05:16:00 -
[505]
How clueless is ccp 90% of ships truely used in fw are bc and down so what do they do they give us a new navy battleship get a clue and give us ships we will use like navy battlecruiser and navy destroyer once agian ccp fails when it involves faction wars.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.09.13 06:04:00 -
[506]
Originally by: Dyphos
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa So it really isn't a discussion anymore, rather it's you doing what you're going to do and then we deal with it. Can you at least throw us what you're THINKING about? We care about the ships we fly. Please at least let us THINK we're a part of the decision making/guiding process.
No offense, but you're probably the LAST person anyone should be listening to in regards of what and how to fly. Your method of pvp simply consists of throwing isk at problems. Isk that the casual player does not have or have RL cash to reinforce. Because of this, your point is moot since you're about as practical as an inflatable raft in space.
With that said, the ship changes look great. It's nice to see the faction frigates are getting some love. I don't see what all the Firetail hate is for. They've turned your glorified shuttle into a faster/stronger Rifter with (essentially) a built in plate and a 4th midslot to utilize some ewar. Same goes for the Slicer; I see it's meant to replace the AB Crusaders that people seem addicted to flying in low sec. If anything the Hookbill may have some trouble since rockets are still less than ideal.
Other than that, I look forward to seeing what changes are in store for the Daredevil and Dramiel. I read some nice possibilities for them on SHC, hopefully things go in that direction.
Also, reducing the price of pirate ships should be a major factor in your balancing process. Right now the pirate faction ships cost WAY too much, so unless the pirate ships bring something truly unique to the field there is no reason they should be costing 3x as much as empire faction ships.
Keep it up!
the firetail was a nice interceptor. easily out running some ceptors.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.13 06:38:00 -
[507]
Originally by: stolas How clueless is ccp 90% of ships truely used in fw are bc and down so what do they do they give us a new navy battleship get a clue and give us ships we will use like navy battlecruiser and navy destroyer once agian ccp fails when it involves faction wars.
sounds more like a way to get isk into your pockets. sell to the rich carebears running highsec missions out of FW and be able to buy like 100 more battle cruisers
although honestly I love bs in lowsec, although that might have to do with usually fighting under gategun fire
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Lemmy Kravitz
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Posted - 2009.09.13 08:05:00 -
[508]
Where is my Navy Issue Thrasher???
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BiggestT
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.09.13 08:16:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 05/09/2009 10:51:45
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òFittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òNew bonuses: 5% bonus to cruise and siege launcher rate of fire and 5% shield resistances per level òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) òDronebay unchanged next to standard hull òSpeed: +10% max velocity òSensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
What's the point of this ship?
We already have one Caldari Navy battleship that shield-tanks and uses missiles - the CNR. Add the Rattlesnake (which is basically just a Raven with an extra lowslot) and then there are two.
We don't need a third. These are Caldari ships, and Caldari uses rails. Make it a railboat.
Sadly CCP don't care about railboats.
They add ships...missiles..
They change ships...missiles..(hookbill + ALL of guristas line )
Boost ships? Most likely missile boats (cnr recieved a boost)
But will they make the eagle worthwhile? (protip: sniping inties at 200km with 150 dps is not worthwhile) Will they fix the merlin?
Hell the least they cld do is give the navy scorp its ecm back (no other ships role was changed ffs), tanking role for a faction BS SUCKS tbh. EVE Trivia EVE History
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.13 13:24:00 -
[510]
I think the Navy Scorp will be quite decent in practice - the slot distribution is nice, the extra tank is useful because faction ships get primaried and the DPS is respectable. It's just not very interesting... there's only so many ways to do "missiles plus shields".
The new Rattler is interesting. The missile range bonus complements the sentries that it'll use. Tank is solid enough, although I still feel an urge to armour-tank it with TDs or ODTs so it can receive BS RR. Maybe the absurd CPU requirements of shield RR will one day be fixed...
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.13 15:02:00 -
[511]
Hmmm pirate tears.... they are the best
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Intangible Mirage
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Posted - 2009.09.13 17:35:00 -
[512]
The best use for a navy Scorp will be to fit cap rechargers in the mids and remote reps in the highs.
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clixor
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Posted - 2009.09.14 12:49:00 -
[513]
Edited by: clixor on 14/09/2009 12:49:07 In the end, you've pulled the teeth of the Fleet Issue Tempest AND gave it less tank as well. You compensate us by adding a single double damaged turret which only is marginally better than the Siege Launcher that we would have had in there anyways (and that ONLY because of the double damage bonus that it would be marginally better). Sorry, I can't get behind this.. I'm very disappointed.. you've actually made the Tempest worse.. and I honestly didn't think that was possible.
this!
i'd rather have to current Tempest Fleet then the new. We really need that 6 mid. And that's exactly the reason many of us use the Tempest fleet in the first place!
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.14 13:37:00 -
[514]
Originally by: clixor Edited by: clixor on 14/09/2009 12:49:07 In the end, you've pulled the teeth of the Fleet Issue Tempest AND gave it less tank as well. You compensate us by adding a single double damaged turret which only is marginally better than the Siege Launcher that we would have had in there anyways (and that ONLY because of the double damage bonus that it would be marginally better). Sorry, I can't get behind this.. I'm very disappointed.. you've actually made the Tempest worse.. and I honestly didn't think that was possible.
this!
i'd rather have to current Tempest Fleet then the new. We really need that 6 mid. And that's exactly the reason many of us use the Tempest fleet in the first place!
luckly I didn't bought the fleet tempest I was going to buy 2 weeks ago, sicen the ships will be HEAVILY NERFED WHILE OTHERS ARE BOOSTED!
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.14 14:09:00 -
[515]
I am really at a loss as why people are focusing so on the Fleet Tempest. It moves from shield tank to armour tank and gains a gun.
CCP has already said they are looking at solutions to M/L projectiles and I wouldn't be surprised if damage for the ammo is increased a flat 15-20%. Would give artillery some of its alpha back and make a AC boats damn powerful.
As long as we don't have the full picture there is really no reason to throw fits/tantrums. If CCP are human as has been theorized, excessive emotional outbursts actually has the opposite of the desired effect and they'll whack Minmatar even harder out of spite!
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:41:00 -
[516]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I am really at a loss as why people are focusing so on the Fleet Tempest. It moves from shield tank to armour tank and gains a gun.
CCP has already said they are looking at solutions to M/L projectiles and I wouldn't be surprised if damage for the ammo is increased a flat 15-20%. Would give artillery some of its alpha back and make a AC boats damn powerful.
As long as we don't have the full picture there is really no reason to throw fits/tantrums. If CCP are human as has been theorized, excessive emotional outbursts actually has the opposite of the desired effect and they'll whack Minmatar even harder out of spite!
The ammar super rage from 2 years to 1.5 years ago says you are wrong. We managed to bring ammar from bottom of pit into the current best race :)
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2009.09.14 15:45:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I am really at a loss as why people are focusing so on the Fleet Tempest. It moves from shield tank to armour tank and gains a gun.
CCP has already said they are looking at solutions to M/L projectiles and I wouldn't be surprised if damage for the ammo is increased a flat 15-20%. Would give artillery some of its alpha back and make a AC boats damn powerful.
As long as we don't have the full picture there is really no reason to throw fits/tantrums. If CCP are human as has been theorized, excessive emotional outbursts actually has the opposite of the desired effect and they'll whack Minmatar even harder out of spite!
True, but understand at the outset, if nothing else changes the proposed idea for the Fleet Issue Tempest will decrease the tank by 39k EHP and in exchange, give it an increase of a whopping 5 dps.
And let's be accurate here, there have been issues with the Minmatar Battleships for a couple years now. We've had Devs come out and say, DESPITE being shown actual proof, that the "Tempest is fine". Thus far, we've seen very little from CCP acknowledging that there is an issue(this post being one of the two times they have, the other was over a year ago with the CSM Bane Glorious and CCP Dev Fendahl). So, considering they have not shown any thoughts regarding Projectile weapons and have left us hanging without even as much as a "Well, its a difficult issue, we are working on a few new ideas.", we kinda have a right to be touchy about losing another ship to the great CCP nerfbat.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Rakane
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Posted - 2009.09.14 16:30:00 -
[518]
Edited by: Rakane on 14/09/2009 16:33:53
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I am really at a loss as why people are focusing so on the Fleet Tempest. It moves from shield tank to armour tank and gains a gun.
CCP has already said they are looking at solutions to M/L projectiles and I wouldn't be surprised if damage for the ammo is increased a flat 15-20%. Would give artillery some of its alpha back and make a AC boats damn powerful.
As long as we don't have the full picture there is really no reason to throw fits/tantrums. If CCP are human as has been theorized, excessive emotional outbursts actually has the opposite of the desired effect and they'll whack Minmatar even harder out of spite!
Moving to armour tank and gain a gun ?!. While it has already be mentioned several Times that this additional Turret gives only a small DPS-gain, armour-tanking with only 6 low slots would mean less or no damage/tracking mods, so as a result you might end up with even less DPS then before (Shield tanking and only 6 guns + 2 unbonused launchers).
However the expected Projectile Solution will look like, it will also effect the other Minmatar ships. The other Navy Battleships are all somewhat improved Versions of their normal counterparts, so it would be interresting to see why one should pay 3, 4 or 500 Mil for a Fleetpest(with Projectileboost) when their is the Maelstrom for a fraction of this Price
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Tom Hanks
Amarria Auxilia
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:59:00 -
[519]
Scorpion Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò New bonuses: 5% bonus to shield resistances per level, 10% Bonus to ECM Burst cannon range per level - ROLE BONUS - Ability to use ECM Burst cannon (High slot module, causes an ECM burst to originate from target ship, base range of 15km, can only use on Navy Scorpion and Scorpion) ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) ò Dronebay unchanged next to standard hull ò Speed: +10% max velocity ò Sensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
Navy Scorpion could tank itself out hard, contribute a little firepower, and then use its ECM Burst Cannon to jam globs of enemy ships. Possibly give the ECM Burst Cannon scripts for focusing it with more ecm strength, or for burst range with less strength.
So fitting would be 5 siege launchers and 1 ECM burst cannon and 1 heavy neut or smartbomb.
Mid slots full tank set up, lows, signal dispersion amps, PDS, DCU.
Also why are people complaining about Pirate faction BS being really good ships compared to Navy Issue BS?
You do understand a pirate BS will cost a lot more right? Its like complaining about how a Nyx is overpowered compared to a Thanatos...well it is WAY MORE EXPENSIVE.
Caldari Racial Purity
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Hunt Darko
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Posted - 2009.09.14 18:01:00 -
[520]
Why do ccp change the shield rechargerate of the CNR? due to this fact ccp cut's off the option for a passive shield tank, which will hurts me a lot! i like her that way....
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Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.14 18:05:00 -
[521]
Not really feedback, but a question/suggestion....
How is the art coming along for the T1 BS hull variants?
Any chance the Navy Domi can have a few nice contrasting colours something along the lines of Serpentis Domis or Rogue Drone ones, and not just the usual Navy smears making it look like a beached blue whale?
Cheers.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.09.14 18:17:00 -
[522]
Originally by: Tom Hanks Scorpion Navy Issue:
• Slot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots • Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots • New bonuses: 5% bonus to shield resistances per level, 10% Bonus to ECM Burst cannon range per level - ROLE BONUS - Ability to use ECM Burst cannon (High slot module, causes an ECM burst to originate from target ship, base range of 15km, can only use on Navy Scorpion and Scorpion) • Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) • Dronebay unchanged next to standard hull • Speed: +10% max velocity • Sensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
Navy Scorpion could tank itself out hard, contribute a little firepower, and then use its ECM Burst Cannon to jam globs of enemy ships. Possibly give the ECM Burst Cannon scripts for focusing it with more ecm strength, or for burst range with less strength.
So fitting would be 5 siege launchers and 1 ECM burst cannon and 1 heavy neut or smartbomb.
Mid slots full tank set up, lows, signal dispersion amps, PDS, DCU.
Also why are people complaining about Pirate faction BS being really good ships compared to Navy Issue BS?
You do understand a pirate BS will cost a lot more right? Its like complaining about how a Nyx is overpowered compared to a Thanatos...well it is WAY MORE EXPENSIVE.
remote ECM burst is limited to motherships so far. imho that would make it too overpowered.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.09.14 19:01:00 -
[523]
Originally by: Hunt Darko Why do ccp change the shield rechargerate of the CNR? due to this fact ccp cut's off the option for a passive shield tank, which will hurts me a lot! i like her that way....
It's likely the intention - the dictum being "Thou shalt active or buffer tank your battleship." What you like will likely have little bearing on the matter.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.09.14 19:06:00 -
[524]
Tanking is not a role.
Ofc some people will still get Navy Scorpion. Entity for example and umm ... some roleplayers I guess. Perhaps even myself should I get dazed by falling isk bag some day. To be constructive I think the proposed Navy Scorpion is a bit too similar to Rattlesnake. It would nice if it would be more unique in already crowded Ravenkind niche of CNR/Rattlesnake/Golem. Perhaps something like Nightmare, just with hybrids ? If I remember correct you opted to not go that route with Rattlesnake instead giving rattle a 50% missile velocity bonus so this slot is still kinda open and would justify the navy paintjob on the good looking hull of Scorpion.
Overall nice changes. Navy Tempest looks a bit more promising with 7 turret slots altho it will still have to issues of having to use projectiles. Navy Dominix is sexy and will be quite popular, even if just for paintjob, as Domi already is damn good BS. Armageddon is also looking promising. Phoon is well ... phoon - leaves me neutral as it does not seem particularly good not particularly bad. Perhaps ... I know that tracking disruption is amarr e-war with neuts and stuff, but perhaps give minny a e-war phoon with tracking disruptiong bonuses ? Just a idea as it currently does not quite cut it effort wise what it will take to get navy tier 1 BS.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.14 20:06:00 -
[525]
Originally by: Carniflex Ofc some people will still get Navy Scorpion. Entity for example and umm ... some roleplayers I guess.
word.
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Tom Hanks
Amarria Auxilia
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Posted - 2009.09.14 20:25:00 -
[526]
Edited by: Tom Hanks on 14/09/2009 20:35:26 Originally by: Tom HanksScorpion Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 7 high, 8 med, 4 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò New bonuses: 5% bonus to shield resistances per level, 10% Bonus to ECM Burst cannon range per level - ROLE BONUS - Ability to use ECM Burst cannon (High slot module, causes an ECM burst to originate from target ship, base range of 15km, can only use on Navy Scorpion and Scorpion) ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) ò Dronebay unchanged next to standard hull ò Speed: +10% max velocity ò Sensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
Navy Scorpion could tank itself out hard, contribute a little firepower, and then use its ECM Burst Cannon to jam globs of enemy ships. Possibly give the ECM Burst Cannon scripts for focusing it with more ecm strength, or for burst range with less strength.
So fitting would be 5 siege launchers and 1 ECM burst cannon and 1 heavy neut or smartbomb.
Mid slots full tank set up, lows, signal dispersion amps, PDS, DCU.
Also why are people complaining about Pirate faction BS being really good ships compared to Navy Issue BS?
You do understand a pirate BS will cost a lot more right? Its like complaining about how a Nyx is overpowered compared to a Thanatos...well it is WAY MORE EXPENSIVE.
remote ECM burst is limited to motherships so far. imho that would make it too overpowered.
I am not saying the ECM burst cannon should be all that powerful. The concept of the ECM burst cannon for the scorp and navy scorp is a solid idea though. It would set these ships apart from the ships they would be compared to.
Since the standard ECM bonus is no longer there, the scorpions would have terrible ecm jamming ability with standard ecm. This would force scorpions to use the ecm burst cannon, some launchers, and fit a shield buffer or active tank.
Also this would not be overpowered because the ecm burst cannon can only target 1 ship at a time and either do very high ecm jam strength with short range (maybe anything within 5km of target gets hit, with a focused jam script) or jam with low strength over larger area with dispersed script (maybe anything within 25-20km)
Scorp vs Raven... why bother with scorp when if you tank it out, it loses its slots for ecm? and has crap firepower anyway? May as well use a raven. But if you use it for ecm, it is paper thin and dies fast.
Navy scorp vs rattlesnake... Rattlesnake has better damage and defense, so why bother with navy scorp.
Give the Scorpion/Navy scorpion an ecm burst cannon high slot weapon so it can use a shield tank, plus an ecm cannon. This would set it apart from these other ships and make it worth using. The strength and range of the ecm burst cannon will need to be tested and balanced, but that would be easy to do. The CONCEPT of the ecm burst cannon making the scorpion ships worthwhile to use is good though.
Caldari Racial Purity
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.14 20:31:00 -
[527]
Hookbill: It striks me as severe lack og grid on this ship, more so as a ship to fit pg hungry rocekts, and perferably MWD and a semblance of a tank. Imo, give it more grid. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
SuperNova221
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Posted - 2009.09.14 23:02:00 -
[528]
I propose a different change to Navy Domi.
+1 drone per level and 10% bonus to drone damage per level, no turrets. (Or 3/4 whatever makes it more balanced damage wise)
I think I can safely say I'm not the only one who has been dreaming of a Navy Domi for a long time now that is disappointed with the changes. A more drone-orientated Domi would be amazing, the 10x drone is something a lot of people want, even if it were just for novelty. Something unique for the Domi, something that makes you want one.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2009.09.14 23:25:00 -
[529]
i'm quite unimpressed by the changes on minnie ships
an unnecessary nerf for the tempest fleet issue, that is a good ship but for sure not an op one
typhoon boost is kinda a joke... they are pretty much what people is asking for the standard phoon, armor and shield swap (because is an armor tank ship so obviously armor should be main defense) and more versatility in high slots
so while other ships generally get an added mid or low, or in some case an additional weapon with 2 bonuses, the phoon basically get a missile slot with 1 bonus and lose a turret slot with 1 bonus... not that great at all for an expensive ship
of course it will be better than the standard phoon but the improvement is minimal imo for a ship like this another mid or low was not a bad idea, or eventually keep the 5/5 but also give it a better sig radius or different bonuses
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.15 00:05:00 -
[530]
Originally by: SuperNova221 I propose a different change to Navy Domi.
+1 drone per level and 10% bonus to drone damage per level, no turrets. (Or 3/4 whatever makes it more balanced damage wise)
I think I can safely say I'm not the only one who has been dreaming of a Navy Domi for a long time now that is disappointed with the changes. A more drone-orientated Domi would be amazing, the 10x drone is something a lot of people want, even if it were just for novelty. Something unique for the Domi, something that makes you want one.
get ready to be disappointed, no!
just shy of 1k afk dps, not a chance
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ropnes
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Posted - 2009.09.15 00:11:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
Originally by: SuperNova221 I propose a different change to Navy Domi.
+1 drone per level and 10% bonus to drone damage per level, no turrets. (Or 3/4 whatever makes it more balanced damage wise)
I think I can safely say I'm not the only one who has been dreaming of a Navy Domi for a long time now that is disappointed with the changes. A more drone-orientated Domi would be amazing, the 10x drone is something a lot of people want, even if it were just for novelty. Something unique for the Domi, something that makes you want one.
get ready to be disappointed, no!
just shy of 1k afk dps, not a chance
It's the Domi It's supposed to be the best ship in the game
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Zief
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Posted - 2009.09.15 04:26:00 -
[532]
Not to jump on the "Whyz U NefZ MinMatr!?!!!?" bandwagon but WTH? 8/5/6? I've always thought the Fleet 'Pest needed another turret, but now it'll just be a so-so armor tanker and a joke shield tanker. Yeargh! You make-a-me angry CCP! I know everyone's first thought is to use these things in PVP, but what about those mission runners who want to do something different? *Opens can of sarcasm and pours it all over the following rant* -CNR? Yup, you didn't shaft caldari, that'll still be a shiny nice mission ship. -Apoc? Sure, it definitely needs more grid and more drones, amarr ships don't do enough damage after all. -Navy Mega? Still has 8 lows for a bomb proof armor tank MORE drones as well (full flight of heavies and meds now right?) -Rep Fleet Tempest....... Let me guess..... Shield booster, a single passive hardner, target painters, a jammer for good luck, some hull tanking, then stuff the lows with heat sinks to make our mining lasers work better? There is such a thing as TOO MUCH FREAKING FLEXIBILITY!!!!!!! Who do you let make the minmatar changes anyway? Blizzard spys? Or do you just put all the ship statistics in a gerbil ball and keep shaking till the joint is smoked out and whatever numbers fall out are what you give us? And PVP capabilities? My god look at the alliance toury, are there any fleet tempests? How about machs? Even the typhoon, the ONE SHINING JEWEL OF OUR MISERABLE LINEUP isn't getting used. We are as pre-nerfed as we can get CCP. Have a heart and give us something that everyone actually would like to fly, not this pile of everyones leftover compressed metal scraps and Zor's Custom Navigation Links.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.15 04:53:00 -
[533]
Originally by: Zief And PVP capabilities? My god look at the alliance toury, are there any fleet tempests? How about machs? Even the typhoon, the ONE SHINING JEWEL OF OUR MISERABLE LINEUP isn't getting used. We are as pre-nerfed as we can get CCP. Have a heart and give us something that everyone actually would like to fly, not this pile of everyones leftover compressed metal scraps and Zor's Custom Navigation Links.
BYVI used a tempest and got a total hell death
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Zief
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Posted - 2009.09.15 05:23:00 -
[534]
PS, I do like the changes to the faction frigates, total kudos and props to the people who came up with that idea. I like it that they will now have an actual role and be a useful ship. +1
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Tom Hanks
Amarria Auxilia
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Posted - 2009.09.15 06:19:00 -
[535]
There is a problem with the current Scorpion and Navy Scorpion. They share the same problems.
1 - If they fit ECM, they cant fit a tank that will keep them alive for very long and die quickly.
2 - If you fit a shield tank that is good, foregoing the ECM, then your firepower is garbage anyway and you just die later
3 - You cant simply boost its firepower, or it will enter into the territory of the Raven. If you begin giving it much better tank, then it will intrude on the Rattlesnakes territory.
The solution is to give the scorpions the item they have needed all along, a high slot ECM weapon to add to their negligible firepower.
Remote ECM Burst Cannon (Like the Motherships have but scaled down a lot) Here are some basic stats for it.
Remote ECM Burst Cannon - Only one may be fitted per ship ECM Burst Radius 10km Activation cost 360 Can be fitted to - Scorpion - Scorpion Navy Issue Optimal Range 60km Fall off 30km Activation time - 20 seconds Jams 15 across all sensor spectrum
Focused script -5km burst radius / +5 jam strength Broad Burst Script +5km burst radius / -5 jam strength
Before anyone says this is too uber. The Scorpions could be dampened down to only using it within a range that would hurt friendly ships. Enemy ships could also disperse formation and make it pretty ineffective. You can simply MWD up to the scorpions and never be jammed.
This means that now finally the scorpion ships will have the ability to hang in during a fight (one slot moved from medium to low to keep it from being a ridiculous tank) They can contribute some firepower, though negligible, and use their ECM Burst Cannon to jam any globs of enemy ships clumping together.
Also the ECM Burst Cannon could be used to help friendly ships get away. Target the friendly ship and hit it with a dispersed jamming script and you may be able to break locks of people scrambling him.
I think this change would make these ships finally be distinct from the raven/rattlesnake, and give them their own special ability. It wouldnt be overpowered, and with a little balancing would make eve more interesting and make the Caldari ships...more Caldari.
Scorpion Navy Issue:
ò Slot layout: 7 high, 7 med, 5 low slots, 5 launchers, 4 turrets, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots ò New bonuses: 5% bonus to shield resistances per level, 10% Bonus to ECM Burst cannon range per level - ROLE BONUS - Ability to use ECM Burst cannon (High slot module, causes an ECM burst to originate from target ship, base range of 15km, can only use on Navy Scorpion and Scorpion) ò Hitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (8203), armor (8203) and shields (9961) ò Dronebay unchanged next to standard hull ò Speed: +10% max velocity ò Sensor: +25% gravimetric sensor strength, -50 signature radius next to standard hull
Caldari Racial Purity
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Opertone
Caldari Monsters
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Posted - 2009.09.15 09:43:00 -
[536]
every ship needs something special on top!
yes dominix may need something very cool, like drone regeneration... scorpion bonus to ECCM and remote ECCM typhoon - extra overheating, larger heat tolerance armageddon - quad crystal lifetime
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Generic PlayerX
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:32:00 -
[537]
will the new ships only be avelible from faction warfare mission agents or also the old faction agents ?? just asking cors i dont wanna start and do alot of missions if they will only be able for faction warfare..
from generic.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:38:00 -
[538]
Why the 10% speed penalty on the Firetail?
It used to have the advantage of dictating the range of the fight, now it's almost as slow as the Amarr frigate, with Amarr typically being the slow fat bald guys with the big fists.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Sputnik Tsygan
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Posted - 2009.09.15 11:44:00 -
[539]
Edited by: Sputnik Tsygan on 15/09/2009 11:45:45 I still dont' see any posts from the devs saying "OMG WTF were we thinking about the proposed changes to the firetail. It was last on the list and someone spiked our coffee with military grade crazy pills"
It's a travesty and an insult.
Here's my proposed changes to the firetail:
Slot layout:
3 high (3 turrets no launcher) 4 medium 3 low
Base speed: 357m/s (same as before)
Ship Bonuses (per level):
+5% Maximum velocity +7.5 Small projectile turret tracking speed
Everything else can stay the same
This is a realistic layout and not at all overpowered. It keeps the firetail as it should be without losing it's essence and brings it up to scratch with the other overhauled faction frigates.
IMO they have used a formula to (badly) balance the new faction frigates and have disregarded what makes the firetail a truly matari ship.
Please CCP dont break it....boost it!
I have a thread on the matter in ships and modules. Please drop by and show your support before it's too late
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1173519&page=3
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Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2009.09.15 15:00:00 -
[540]
Edited by: Sciencegeek deathdealer on 15/09/2009 15:01:30 Originally by: SuperNova221 I propose a different change to Navy Domi.
+1 drone per level and 10% bonus to drone damage per level, no turrets. (Or 3/4 whatever makes it more balanced damage wise)
I think I can safely say I'm not the only one who has been dreaming of a Navy Domi for a long time now that is disappointed with the changes. A more drone-orientated Domi would be amazing, the 10x drone is something a lot of people want, even if it were just for novelty. Something unique for the Domi, something that makes you want one.
/signed. drones are the domi for sake. give it some stronger DRONE bonus's.
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Zief
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Posted - 2009.09.15 16:03:00 -
[541]
I like the look of the new Firetail. It's still the fastest (although why Amarr are the second fastest I don't know, but maybe it's good to break stereotypes once and a while) it's got the extra hp over the Rifter while at the same time now having the teeth it needs to really chew the fat. Gone will be the 1700m/s AB firetail that is immune to warp scrambler's anti MWD effects, but it'll be refreshing to have a nice little beefy brawler frigate that still has some get up and go.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.15 17:27:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Ulstan on 15/09/2009 17:31:34
Originally by: Endless Subversion You guys are nuts. The CN Scorp is by far the best ship in the bunch. I can't get over how awesome it is. I'm only posting at all because I'm terrified y'all will get it changed.
It's everything you could possible want from a small gang bs. 8 mids! A resist bonus! A torp RoF bonus?!! 2 utility highs, the perfect number of lows for a shield gank boat
Ok. How is the resist bonus all that valuable? If there's a ship that's a super tanker in a small gang, you'll be shot at last. 'Tank' is simply not a very good pvp attribute unless everyone in your squad has it. Or you are soloing.
Now, Torp ROF bonus? Raven has that. Two utility highs? Raven has that too. Raven also has more damage and higher range. It costs way less. It looks to me like a superior gang boat, and it's way cheaper. If the navy scorp did as much damage as the raven, maybe you could say "Ok, I'm willing to be a short range bralwer - I'll give up range for more EHP". Or if the scorpion had enough PG to actually fit full rack of siege II's, MWD, and 2 heavy neuts, that would be nice. Raven can't, not even if you use an RCU II - but right now, neither can the scorpion.
Quote: Plus golem fitting is crap (pg especially) and trying to actually use 3x utility highs with its fitting is a bad joke.
This is the same problem the navy scorp runs into. That and it actually has the same # of utilty highs as the raven, it just lost a launcher hi slot. Raven has six missiles, 2 utility highs. Scorp has 5 missiles, 2 utility highs. Neither has the PG to really use their utility highs.
Quote: Raven has great dps at the cost of forgetting a tank or the tackle to actually get your full dps. It might be better in a larger gang, but I never fly in gangs large enough to see it. It can't active tank for squat and its passive buffers are very heavily outdone by the slaved armor variants.
If you have any kind of gang the BS is not the one responsible for laying down the tackle. Also, the raven doesn't have to be the one packing the target painters. You're right that the raven can't active tank well, but that's true of almost any shield BS, because the cap booster takes up a tank slot for them, and it doesn't for armor tanking ships.
I mean, remember that we're not discussing two BS that are equally costly. We're talking about an el cheapo T1 BS with a very expensive faction BS. If you have people saying "Hm, you know, I can't really say the faction BS is better than the base T1" then you have a problem.
Either the scorpion needs to have the same # of missiles as the raven (six misisle slots, 1 utility high) or it needs more grid so it can actually use its two utility highs )(5 missile slots, 2 utility highs). Either way could be worth going. But saying "I have less damage, less range, the same utility, but more hp" is simply not a compelling variant for an existing ship.
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Stickletodd
Amarr Industrial Mining and Construction
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Posted - 2009.09.15 18:26:00 -
[543]
Edited by: Stickletodd on 15/09/2009 18:27:13
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:38:17 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:34:22 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:17:15 I. Navy Frigates:
Due to their split weapon layout and lack of dedicated role, navy frigates usefulness remains quite limited. We plan to turn them into an hybrid of interceptors and Assault frigate classes, combining points of both, being less specialized than the Tech2 hulls, thus more versatile but less resilient.
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òHas been renamed to Imperal Navy Slicer òNew slot layout: 3 high, 2 med and 5 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 115 CPU, 47 powergrid òBonuses: 25% to small energy turret damage and 10% to turret range bonus per Amarr Frigate skill level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Punisher) òCapacitor: 500 capacitor, 281.55s recharge (about 1.8 cap/s) òSpeed: 390m/s, 3.3 agility òSensor: 31km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 550mm scan resolution, 10 radar sensor strength, 38m signature radius
So we are taking a decent combat frigate and making it target bait. Well done! This change does sound like a committee decision. Taking away one of the turret hard points is disabling this ship. Why fly it? It can't tackle. It can't fight. All it can do now is pop.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.15 19:03:00 -
[544]
Edited by: Soporo on 15/09/2009 19:03:33
Quote: Either the scorpion needs to have the same # of missiles as the raven (six misisle slots, 1 utility high) (( or it needs 3 launchers and a 100% damage boonus)) or it needs more grid so it can actually use its two utility highs )(5 missile slots, 2 utility highs). Either way could be worth going. But saying "I have less damage, less range, the same utility, but more hp than a t1 ship" is simply not a compelling variant for an existing ship.
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Opertone
Caldari Monsters
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Posted - 2009.09.15 19:04:00 -
[545]
Quote:
So we are taking a decent combat frigate and making it target bait. Well done! This change does sound like a committee decision. Taking away one of the turret hard points is disabling this ship. Why fly it? It can't tackle. It can't fight. All it can do now is pop.
quoted for truth, faction frigates need resistances, else they are a waste of a POD
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Opertone
Caldari Monsters
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Posted - 2009.09.15 19:06:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 15/09/2009 19:03:33
Quote: Either the scorpion needs to have the same # of missiles as the raven (six misisle slots, 1 utility high) (( or it needs 3 launchers and a 100% damage boonus)) or it needs more grid so it can actually use its two utility highs )(5 missile slots, 2 utility highs). Either way could be worth going. But saying "I have less damage, less range, the same utility, but more hp than a t1 ship" is simply not a compelling variant for an existing ship.
also true... FACTION ships need to be omg, wtf, bbq, pwn. Please remove boredom from EvE %P
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.15 20:20:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: Stickletodd
So we are taking a decent combat frigate and making it target bait. Well done! This change does sound like a committee decision. Taking away one of the turret hard points is disabling this ship. Why fly it? It can't tackle. It can't fight. All it can do now is pop.
quoted for truth, faction frigates need resistances, else they are a waste of a POD
Are you both being moronic on purpose? Here, let me break out a calculator for you!
Damage at Amarr Frigate V - Current Slicer - 3 Turrets * (1+.05*5) = 3 * 1.25 = 3.75 effective turrets Shiny New Slicer - 2 Turrets * (1+.25*5) = 2 * 2.25 = 4.5 effective turrets
OMFG, you mean that ships with marauder-level gun bonuses and gun turrets now act ... just like marauders when it comes to guns? What an amazing discovery! So you're now doing more damage at a longer range, and that somehow makes it combat ineffective?!
Well founded balance discussions are useful. Whines from people who can't read or use math are not. ----
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.09.15 20:25:00 -
[548]
CCP managed to *nerf pest*?
I read the rest but since this whole draft here... is some worthless draft without much though behind it just to stir forum traffic...
Looking forward to some real info.
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Opertone
Caldari Monsters
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Posted - 2009.09.15 21:16:00 -
[549]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: Opertone
Originally by: Stickletodd
So we are taking a decent combat frigate and making it target bait. Well done! This change does sound like a committee decision. Taking away one of the turret hard points is disabling this ship. Why fly it? It can't tackle. It can't fight. All it can do now is pop.
quoted for truth, faction frigates need resistances, else they are a waste of a POD
Are you both being moronic on purpose? Here, let me break out a calculator for you!
Damage at Amarr Frigate V - Current Slicer - 3 Turrets * (1+.05*5) = 3 * 1.25 = 3.75 effective turrets Shiny New Slicer - 2 Turrets * (1+.25*5) = 2 * 2.25 = 4.5 effective turrets
OMFG, you mean that ships with marauder-level gun bonuses and gun turrets now act ... just like marauders when it comes to guns? What an amazing discovery! So you're now doing more damage at a longer range, and that somehow makes it combat ineffective?!
Well founded balance discussions are useful. Whines from people who can't read or use math are not.
that is already covered by destroyers - all out turret, longer range and laughable tank... in fact MWD and extenders all they can fit.
A clever commander knows best what he wants to fly... something that can come home from battle in one piece, otherwise faction frigates will be restricted to decoration shelf placeholder. |
Hayaishi
Gallente Swiftarrow Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.16 05:41:00 -
[550]
Edited by: Hayaishi on 16/09/2009 05:40:49
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Not really feedback, but a question/suggestion....
How is the art coming along for the T1 BS hull variants?
Any chance the Navy Domi can have a few nice contrasting colours something along the lines of Serpentis Domis or Rogue Drone ones, and not just the usual Navy smears making it look like a beached blue whale?
Cheers.
Aww nuu, I'm beached... I'm beached is!
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Dimitryy
Gallente Ever Flow Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.16 06:47:00 -
[551]
Ok, so i saw a screenshot of a Domi a while ago, i guess an npc of some kind, although i've never seen it. Was an Orange Dominix. Can i has it?
For srs though, awesome ships, still some time to go for the final bonuses to be hashed out, but they look like great fun to fly, and more special stuff for faction war is never bad. ------------------------------------------
Jack Blackstone > Dimitryy I hope you die. |
Kay Rizen
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Posted - 2009.09.16 07:51:00 -
[552]
Edited by: Kay Rizen on 16/09/2009 07:53:10
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers òFittings: 140 CPU, 39 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Rifter) òCapacitor: 250 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.3 cap/s) òSpeed: 410m/s, 3.2 agility òSensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
I recently bought a Firetail as a fast tackler and fit it for speed (link). As a tackler, of course I love the extra mid and am willing to give up the high for it, but it looks like you changed a 357m/s +5% per level (446 at lvl 5), into 410 base: about 15% speed base bonus from 25%. For a ship meant to be fast, I don't like the speed nerf trade for dps. If I use my mids to tackle, I want to be at 24km with a disrupter II (out of web), but that's exactly where the hole is between Tremor and Quake ammo, lowering my potential dps significantly by having to use faction Carbonized Lead or something.
Instead of speedy tackling, it gets dps tackling, with no good range options. With 20% turret damage per level, no one will ever fit a 2nd missile launcher; take out the 2nd launcher hardpoint for a little bit more speed or something useful.
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Echo Gemini
Minmatar Love My Darkness
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Posted - 2009.09.16 13:51:00 -
[553]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium To answer some concerns. Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).
OPEN-SOURCE EVE-CORE ... the drawback is that you might have to hire 20 lawyers to sue the code-steal corporation ...
Ok ok i got it ... i think is the first official answer in the minmatar issues ... I understand, but still, this make some of us kinda sad ... The problem is that people tend to get frustrated when no reaction appears and problems remain the same ...
I don't know; stop consume time and money on a unstable game (start modify the core) ... The next step (aka expansion) should be nothing more then a bug-fixed platform ... Architecture redesign is nothing new ...
Anywhoo!.. Good luck to the dev team in all sort of stuff they do ...
P.S. I've started to cross-train gallente because of you!!! Now i will get all sort of drone bugs!!! Damn you!!!
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Zief
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Posted - 2009.09.16 18:28:00 -
[554]
To disagree with someone who said earlier that the Fleet Tempest will just become an armor tank now instead of a shield tank: Does trying to armor tank a Lvl IV with only 6 lows and no tank bonus on the ship sound a little wonky to anyone but me? Maelstrom mounts a nice shield tank with 6 mids but it gets a very nice bonus to it's boosters to do it. Considering that to get adequate DPS for missioning a minmatar BS needs at LEAST two gyros (but four doesn't hurt) the buff to arties would throw everything out of balance to make up for this. Look at any of the other armor tanked BS's. Hyperion, 6 lows AND a ship repper bonus. Mega 7 lows, 8 for the navy version, Domi 7 lows, armageddon 8 lows, apoc 7 lows. Will someone PLEASE explain this madness to me? I'd be jumping for joy if they moved the mid down to a low, or kept the 6/6 layout along with the addition of a gun. Upping the drone bay to just carry a few spares isn't going to make up for this ludicrous deficiency.
Another thought, that just occurs to me is that this flies in the face of the beautiful synergy of the Maelstrom and Vargur as the minmatar mission boats. Matari fight a lot of Angels, Angels shoot Exp/Kin, Shield tanks have high exp/kin resist. I know it's a small point but EVERYTHING about this just screams backwards nerfhappy minmatar cruelty. I'm waiting with baited breath for this all to happen, and hoping dearly that there is some big secret to make this whole debacle make sense when the patch comes.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:28:00 -
[555]
After having given the Changes some Thought, I am really against the Changes to the Macharial
The Tracking Bonus is something unique and gives the Machariel the ability to hit effectivly in close range fighting, together with a Webber.
I am also not happy with the removing of the Missile Slots.
I would say the Machariel is fine, you might consider improving Autocannons as a whole but otherwise leave the Machariel alone.
Also you do not really have to give the Rattlesnake a Drone Bonus. Because your new "Ravnix" will simply become overpowered.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:55:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Zief To disagree with someone who said earlier that the Fleet Tempest will just become an armor tank now instead of a shield tank: Does trying to armor tank a Lvl IV with only 6 lows and no tank bonus on the ship sound a little wonky to anyone but me? Maelstrom mounts a nice shield tank with 6 mids but it gets a very nice bonus to it's boosters to do it. Considering that to get adequate DPS for missioning a minmatar BS needs at LEAST two gyros (but four doesn't hurt) the buff to arties would throw everything out of balance to make up for this. Look at any of the other armor tanked BS's. Hyperion, 6 lows AND a ship repper bonus. Mega 7 lows, 8 for the navy version, Domi 7 lows, armageddon 8 lows, apoc 7 lows. Will someone PLEASE explain this madness to me? I'd be jumping for joy if they moved the mid down to a low, or kept the 6/6 layout along with the addition of a gun. Upping the drone bay to just carry a few spares isn't going to make up for this ludicrous deficiency.
Another thought, that just occurs to me is that this flies in the face of the beautiful synergy of the Maelstrom and Vargur as the minmatar mission boats. Matari fight a lot of Angels, Angels shoot Exp/Kin, Shield tanks have high exp/kin resist. I know it's a small point but EVERYTHING about this just screams backwards nerfhappy minmatar cruelty. I'm waiting with baited breath for this all to happen, and hoping dearly that there is some big secret to make this whole debacle make sense when the patch comes.
Ever heard of some little ship called raven.. the kind of Level4 for years.. and shield tanked with 6 mids?
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:11:00 -
[557]
Hmm, I wonder - when will the lesser of the navy cruisers get some loving? (Here's looking at you, Navy Exequror) ----
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Random Womble
Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:46:00 -
[558]
Edited by: Random Womble on 16/09/2009 22:49:48 Im a bit disappointed with the firetail changes while the other races get either an extra weapon hard point for bonuses weapons or drone bay or higher damage bonus (amarr 25% vs others 20%) all the firetail gets is a crapp extra unbonuses missile slot which seems a bit meh.
Also after again you guys at CCP admitted split weapons systems sucked with the frigates and in the other thread with the guristas pirate ships you still insist on giving the typhoon split weapons i mean what gives.An extra hardpoint to both turrets and launchers is kind of pointless if you want 5 DPS weapons on a phoon and right now you have 4 launchers 1 turret or vice versa then you instead switch up to a navy phoon and now fit 1 extra launcher/turret in stead while yet you will get the bonuses for any damage mods for it now its barely going to make a diffrrence to your DPS perhaps 4-6% which really is pathetic compaired to the benefits an extra slot could bring.
Since you have changed the navy scorps bonuses how about changing the phoon too. Make it: 5% Torpedo Launcher rate of fire per level (could even be 7.5% since its restricted to torps), +7.5% (or even 10%) to target painter effectiveness per level.
Slot Layout: 7 high 5 launcher 0 (or optionally 2-4 to keep flexability) turrets 5 med slots 7 Low slots
Keep the additional +25m3 drone bay perhaps increase it to +50-75 to compensate for losing hard points/high slot. Keep speed ect increase and the move to more armor than shield.
Basically making it a short range armor tanked torpedo/drone boat and also making it the only minmatar ship where the target painter bonus has a use.
Also please change the fleet issue scythe its really horrible. fleet tempest buff also is a bit meh ordinary tempest needs another turret anyway or some other boost so just give fleet the 7 turrets and keep that extra mid slot or something.
Edit: removed some excessive use of i mean.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.16 23:11:00 -
[559]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 16/09/2009 23:13:56
I'm going to call it now.
Navy Dominixes everywhere ingame a few months down the line.
The normal dominix was already the unmatched bargain basement battleship king of 1v1's.
+1 mid and +1 low amonst the other things, damn.
Also;
lol @ Minmatar ships, gotta feel sorry for them.
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Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.09.17 00:13:00 -
[560]
I'm going to call it now;
Change the NavyT skin back to black...Once more people see what it looks like we'll have the entire babyblue threadnaught all over again...only this time about vomit green.... Seriously...what was the reskinner thinking? That it would look better with a skin which makes it look like it's been playing soldier a bit too much?! Navies usually don't use green btw...its mostly grey/blueish and black. Change it to those colours and i'd be happier but for the love of god!?
Ohh and that goes for the NavyD too. It's alright to have your kids do a "colour the picture" but that doesn't mean they have to be used in game... (little bit of pun, mostly my actual feeling to the skins) At least now i know why the resin model NavyT was camo green all this time..
Other than that initial testing seems to have indicated a nice buff to respect it's price tag and heritage. ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.17 00:47:00 -
[561]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 17/09/2009 00:52:22 CCP, you need to have a little chat with your art team. If you're going to give the Navy Dominix the jungle camo of the Deimos, Navy Vexor, and Navy Exequror instead of the black and white of the Navy Comet and Navy Megathron, at LEAST make sure the camo isn't symmetrical.
The crap isn't as obvious on the navy Exequror since the ship itself is asymmetrical leaving only the front end to reveal the laziness of the artists, but the Dominix is symmetrical making it plainly obvious.
They did it right on the Navy Vexor, and they did it right on the Deimos - if they're too lazy to recognise that symmetrical camo looks like crap, have them do the skin in the Navy Mega's black and white.
{Edit}I didn't even notice you screwed up the Mega's skin, rofl. AT LEAST YOU DID THAT ONE RIGHT, even if jungle camo in space looks like crap. Just use the black-and white skin for every Gallente faction ship - it really does look a lot better than Green Camo In Black Space. Why you couldn't stick with the black and white or the navy vexor's black and gold is beyond me. At least you all haven't screwed up the Navy Comet yet - you still have plenty of time, though {/edit} ----
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2009.09.17 00:58:00 -
[562]
So, has anyone test flown the Fleet Tempest yet?
Maybe checked out the ACs and Arties for some secret stealth buff on SiSi?
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Zief
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Posted - 2009.09.17 01:06:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Zief To disagree with someone who said earlier that the Fleet Tempest will just become an armor tank now instead of a shield tank: Does trying to armor tank a Lvl IV with only 6 lows and no tank bonus on the ship sound a little wonky to anyone but me? Maelstrom mounts a nice shield tank with 6 mids but it gets a very nice bonus to it's boosters to do it. Considering that to get adequate DPS for missioning a minmatar BS needs at LEAST two gyros (but four doesn't hurt) the buff to arties would throw everything out of balance to make up for this. Look at any of the other armor tanked BS's. Hyperion, 6 lows AND a ship repper bonus. Mega 7 lows, 8 for the navy version, Domi 7 lows, armageddon 8 lows, apoc 7 lows. Will someone PLEASE explain this madness to me? I'd be jumping for joy if they moved the mid down to a low, or kept the 6/6 layout along with the addition of a gun. Upping the drone bay to just carry a few spares isn't going to make up for this ludicrous deficiency.
Another thought, that just occurs to me is that this flies in the face of the beautiful synergy of the Maelstrom and Vargur as the minmatar mission boats. Matari fight a lot of Angels, Angels shoot Exp/Kin, Shield tanks have high exp/kin resist. I know it's a small point but EVERYTHING about this just screams backwards nerfhappy minmatar cruelty. I'm waiting with baited breath for this all to happen, and hoping dearly that there is some big secret to make this whole debacle make sense when the patch comes.
Ever heard of some little ship called raven.. the kind of Level4 for years.. and shield tanked with 6 mids?
I agree Seishi, Raven and CNR are awesome mission ships. But you still have the lows for a few BCU II's or faction equivilent. Their strength has always been an unbelievable amount of gank, which cuts down the incoming ships (and hence DPS) quickly. How is a mission Fleet Pest supposed to tank when it still needs gyros to give it the dps to be an effective mission boat? I maintain that 6 lows is NOT enough to mount a good mission armor tank and still leave your room for DPS modules. You have only to look at any of the other battleships to see this, anything that is designed to be an effective armor tank has at least 7 lows, OR a ship bonus to tanking.
On the flip side, if they increase large arties dps it will throw everything into chaos. My Maelstrom will become a 1000dps monster at 70K! I'll be single salvo'ing battleships before they even get within firing range. As much as I'd like to dream we all know they won't do something like that. I take your point, but I still think that as it stands you'd be better off with the old fleet 'pest.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.17 01:44:00 -
[564]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 17/09/2009 01:46:11
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I am really at a loss as why people are focusing so on the Fleet Tempest. It moves from shield tank to armour tank and gains a gun.
CCP has already said they are looking at solutions to M/L projectiles and I wouldn't be surprised if damage for the ammo is increased a flat 15-20%. Would give artillery some of its alpha back and make a AC boats damn powerful.
As long as we don't have the full picture there is really no reason to throw fits/tantrums. If CCP are human as has been theorized, excessive emotional outbursts actually has the opposite of the desired effect and they'll whack Minmatar even harder out of spite!
First up we are getting mixed responses from ccp on wheather or not they think minmatar need fixing atm. Even those who admit they need fixing don't seem to have a good grasp on them. No that midslot is not worth the dps, minmatar aren't supposed to be dps we are alpha and flexibility and unless that turret doubles the dps of the ship it aint worth losing half our flexibility for.
It's gonna take nothing less than a entire patch to fix the racial balance problems atm. Seeing as upcoming patch isn't gonna fix them and we have to compete with the patches for WIS, DUST, COSMOS.... chances of them actually doing a proper fix are slim to none imo. Hell just look at the firetail it whent from being fastest and 2nd most agile (sounds like minmatar) to least agile and 2nd fastest.
hell they aren't even doing amarr right. amarr are all about the tank/dps, yet they get the fastest ship a massive agility boost. shouldn't they be getting a clear dps boost or tanking boost instead of this? ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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FURY EG
The Corrupt
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Posted - 2009.09.17 01:54:00 -
[565]
Why the hell have you changed the color of Navythron? Camouflage in space? WTF?! Bring back the black color!
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Cornette
Gallente Black Screen of Death Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.17 02:43:00 -
[566]
I've just seen the picture of the new cameo navy mega and I must say...
ITS ****ING TERRIBLE!!!
Its Internet Spaceships we are piloting. Let them remain ships in space. Not bushmen toys for some tribe living in the jungle of some forsaken planet.
CCP, what do you have against it's the navy mega's current look anyway?
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Alex Zander505
Amarr Loyal Order Of Bacchus
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Posted - 2009.09.17 02:43:00 -
[567]
theres just one thing i have to say, ccp. please seed the market with them or SOMETHING - you cant buy ANY faction ship (even a frig) for less than 150mil. this completely ruined my hard work of spending 3 months of ratting in 0.0 to get my -10.0 sec up to get a faction bs and mission in it. great. the price is gunna be horrible. we need something that will help it, maybe seeding or something. this is just crazy now.
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Adacia Calla
Minmatar 1st Steps Academy Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.17 03:43:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Alex Zander505 theres just one thing i have to say, ccp. please seed the market with them or SOMETHING - you cant buy ANY faction ship (even a frig) for less than 150mil. this completely ruined my hard work of spending 3 months of ratting in 0.0 to get my -10.0 sec up to get a faction bs and mission in it. great. the price is gunna be horrible. we need something that will help it, maybe seeding or something. this is just crazy now.
So start grinding FW or missions, you'll have enough LP by December.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.17 04:12:00 -
[569]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 17/09/2009 04:12:59
Originally by: FURY EG Why the hell have you changed the color of Navythron? Camouflage in space? WTF?! Bring back the black color!
Because they gave the black and white to the Amarr: http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9554/20090916235434.jpg
Thanks CCP - but maybe you need to tell us exactly what Gallente and Minmatar did to **** you off :X |
Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.17 04:14:00 -
[570]
HOLY SH*T! IMMEDIATELY change back the navy mega skin. You turned the sexiest ship in the game into something freak spaceship version of a camo painted pickup truck. FIX THIS NOW! |
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Psytropic
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Posted - 2009.09.17 04:58:00 -
[571]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:38:17 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 18:34:22 Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 04/09/2009 17:17:15 I. Navy Frigates:
Due to their split weapon layout and lack of dedicated role, navy frigates usefulness remains quite limited. We plan to turn them into an hybrid of interceptors and Assault frigate classes, combining points of both, being less specialized than the Tech2 hulls, thus more versatile but less resilient.
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òHas been renamed to Imperal Navy Slicer òNew slot layout: 3 high, 2 med and 5 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 115 CPU, 47 powergrid òBonuses: 25% to small energy turret damage and 10% to turret range bonus per Amarr Frigate skill level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Punisher) òCapacitor: 500 capacitor, 281.55s recharge (about 1.8 cap/s) òSpeed: 390m/s, 3.3 agility òSensor: 31km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 550mm scan resolution, 10 radar sensor strength, 38m signature radius
Caldari Navy Hookbill:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 5 med, 2 low slots, 3 launchers, no turrets òFittings: 165 CPU, 37 powergrid òBonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile velocity per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Merlin) òCapacitor: 281 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.5 cap/s) òSpeed: 370m/s, 3.3 agility òSensor: 35km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 600mm scan resolution, 12 gravimetric sensor strength, 40m signature radius
Gallente Navy Comet:
òHas been renamed to Federation Navy Comet òNew slot layout: 3 high, 3 med, 4 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 152 CPU, 40 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Tristan) òDronebay increased to 30m3, drone bandwidth increased to 15m3 òCapacitor: 365 capacitor, 234.375s recharge (about 1.55 cap/s) òSpeed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility òSensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òNew slot layout: 3 high, 4 med, 3 low, 2 turrets, 2 launchers òFittings: 140 CPU, 39 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small projectile turret damage and 7.5% small projectile turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Rifter) òCapacitor: 250 capacitor, 187.5s recharge (about 1.3 cap/s) òSpeed: 410m/s, 3.2 agility òSensor: 30km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 560mm scan resolution, 9 ladar sensor strength, 36m signature radius
Why do all the Navy Frigs fall in line with their Assault frig hull EXCEPT the Gallente one being based on the Tristan not the Incursus?
Also, I think the Comet needs 25m3 bandwidth.
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John Burdell
Caldari Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2009.09.17 07:39:00 -
[572]
New navythron skin is terrible, the old one was perfect for the ship- just keep it how it is right now. Like the other changes so far, makes is much easier to fit full racks of neutrons for that extra bit of pew |
wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2009.09.17 07:44:00 -
[573]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 16/09/2009 23:13:56
I'm going to call it now.
Navy Dominixes everywhere ingame a few months down the line.
The normal dominix was already the unmatched bargain basement battleship king of 1v1's.
+1 mid and +1 low amonst the other things, damn.
Also;
lol @ Minmatar ships, gotta feel sorry for them.
Did I miss something?
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Aionstar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 08:01:00 -
[574]
ccp wtf? you wanna boost amarr more? ok, ok , give them royal blue, white... or add i win button to ships... but, do not touch Navy Megathron color paint! your green camouflage in space looks idiotic
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Tomarix Vindigo
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Posted - 2009.09.17 08:31:00 -
[575]
Quote: Gallente Navy Comet:
ò Has been renamed to Federation Navy Comet ò New slot layout: 3 high, 3 med, 4 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 152 CPU, 40 powergrid ò Bonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level ò Hitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Tristan) ò Dronebay increased to 30m3, drone bandwidth increased to 15m3 ò Capacitor: 365 capacitor, 234.375s recharge (about 1.55 cap/s) ò Speed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility ò Sensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
Don't like it. You say it is based on the Tristan, but you strip the single gallente missile boat of its launchers to make another *yawn* drone frig. I only fly the Comet for occasional missile fun. When I want to use small drones, I use the Ishkur. The AF is even cheaper. The Tristan has launchers, the new Comet doesn't. The Tristan has four high slots, the new Comet doesn't. Don't tell us, the new Comet is still based on the Tristan.
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Monogamia
The Corrupt
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Posted - 2009.09.17 08:57:00 -
[576]
Edited by: Monogamia on 17/09/2009 08:58:09 http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8029/vlcsnap322038f.png
Screenshot from Trinity teaser. Proves once again that CCP videos does not belong to the game that we play.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.17 09:14:00 -
[577]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 17/09/2009 09:19:14
Originally by: Monogamia Edited by: Monogamia on 17/09/2009 08:58:09 http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8029/vlcsnap322038f.png
Screenshot from Trinity teaser. Proves once again that CCP videos does not belong to the game that we play.
Actually, that's a screenshot of the normal Megathron, and the outcome of the original 'baby blue' Gallente Trinity skin in dark lighting.
I kinda miss that idea - I kinda wish they had gone with the same light hull color but a more saturated blue for that, but what we did get is better than pastels :S
Does anyone remember back when the Vexor was a knife-edged ship with a stark front end instead of a Domi-esque miniblob? :p ----
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Aionstar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 09:27:00 -
[578]
dead black base color was perfect why it was changed to gray/baby-blue?
in next addon pink-camo nyx model be swap with navitas model =(
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.17 10:09:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Aionstar dead black base color was perfect why it was changed to gray/baby-blue?
That was a lighting trick. ----
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Veveritz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 10:33:00 -
[580]
CCP really wants to constantly nerf Minmatar, bring back my mid slot FFS. AT least i could do some buffer shield tank with gyros (because dps of autos SUCK), now I can do ****... sure, it is somewhat useful in a range fight but it kills the close range stup because I can't do that "versatility" build with 6 turrets / 2 neut.
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Cornette
Gallente Black Screen of Death Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.17 11:47:00 -
[581]
So the fleet tempest will go from being just "ok" to bad?
And nothing new from CCP on this so far either.
Guess that leaves me only the navy mega to fly, if I can stand it after it gets its new puke cameo
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Melanie Griffin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 12:18:00 -
[582]
What about the "new" Navy cruisers like Osprey, Scythe, Exequeror etc? Considering the a actual availibale contracts of 2 per ship in whole new eden, i think they could use a review much more than anything else ;)
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.09.17 12:43:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Linas IV on 17/09/2009 12:43:18 I just tested out the new Tempest Fleet issue on Sisi, and there is just one complaint:
It has not enough powergrid!
Give it at leat enough to fit 7x1400s II + Named 100mn MWD + 1x 1600 RT Plate
(atm. it needs AWU 5 to fit with an RCU II)
Please do it, if you want it to be used!
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Dr Karsun
Gallente Husarian Loyalists
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Posted - 2009.09.17 13:11:00 -
[584]
A pretty nice way to try to revive FW. I doubt it will work thought... The problem with FW wasn't the lack of reward... One of the many problems was that it was ment to be a 'noob pvp environment' and it is not... Still, Caldari Militia will kick ass because of their numbers and Gallente militia will be conquered because they don't do high sec caldari space roams...
Any way, maybe it will help a bit, but I highly doubt...
Too bad, FW really was fun some time ago.
PLUS - getting LP points from FW wasn't easy either, running 20j for one single mission behind enemy lines to come back and get a few k lp was not really easy... So yeah, maybe this adds a little bit of reward to FW, but I doubt the FW domi will be sold below 2-3b isk... At least for the first 6-12 months...
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bassie12bf1
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Posted - 2009.09.17 13:39:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Melanie Griffin What about the "new" Navy cruisers like Osprey, Scythe, Exequeror etc? Considering the a actual availibale contracts of 2 per ship in whole new eden, i think they could use a review much more than anything else ;)
These ships should be changed to be actually useful.
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.17 14:59:00 -
[586]
Navy Megas are BLACK, not baby blue, not camo, not orange or w/e else color you have in the database already....BLACK.
Really no good reason to change the skin on this ship, I can kinda understand the new Navy Domi, but leave the navy mega alone.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.09.17 15:28:00 -
[587]
Again to the Tempest Fleet issue, let me show you the problem:
New Tempest Fleet Issue:
Fitting 1: 6x 1400mm II (yes 6 out of 7), 1x 100mn MWD 2x Gyro II, 1x1600 RT,
=> 500 Dps with RF Emp, Still has powergrid to spare for a RR and has 2 untility highs.
Fitting 2: 7x 1400mm II, 1x 100mn MWD 1x Gyro II, 1x RCU II, 1x 1600 RT
=> 485 DPS with RF Emp (less than fitting 1!), needs AWU V, is completly out of grid and has 35 CPU less that Fitting 1.
Now tell me please, what is the use of adding a 7th turret to a navy ship, if using only 6 gets you a better result because of the serious fitting issues?!
This is broken
Either give us more grid or give us the 6th Medslot back. (or reduce the fitting cost of Large-Arties alltogether)
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Tuberider
Caldari Pothouse Cartel IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.09.17 16:13:00 -
[588]
Factional Warfare LP stores (and only through them) how totally ****ing gay Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist Thanks for Your Stuff |
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.09.17 16:14:00 -
[589]
Holy crap new navy mega skin is fugly. PLEASE do not take that skin to TQ.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 17:00:00 -
[590]
I don't understand why all the jungle and desert camouflage color is all about. Black ships are more in camo with dark space and they're so to die for. Or why not add black/shades of grey camo colors instead of the old jungle/desert vanillas?
Black ships are scarier, IMO.
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.09.17 17:04:00 -
[591]
i just realized
boost the imperial armageddon ... if somebody still has one ... it should get more structure n stuffs than the navy geddon!
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Crope
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 17:24:00 -
[592]
Don't know if this was mentioned earlier in this thread, But it would be nice if there was a BPC offer for the Navy tier 1 Battleships (and perhaps the lower tier cruisers), Doesn't need to cost any less. Just so that its a little easier/cheaper to get one out in 0.0 etc.
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JinChilla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 17:24:00 -
[593]
As i hardly cant believe that we will get 7 Turrets Slots with 6 med slots, I would be fine with this:
Quote:
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òOLD SLOT LAYOUT: òFittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
I cant get a clue why a singe Large Projectile Turret should be better than a med slot + a second utility/missile launcher slot...(this is not sarcasm!)
I really love the mighty allien stealthy Speed/Agility boost, with the fitting boosts and an increased dronebay the Tempest FI would be worth at least my isk.
greetings ==Sig== [2009.01.26 13:26:00]Kashimir: Very rational way to deal with this... [2009.01.26 13:48:00]CCP Claw: Don't say that out loud, people might think that we know what we're doing! |
Vrikshaka
Yawn Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.17 17:52:00 -
[594]
All this camo on navy ships.....why?!?!? Just have them be darker and more metallic than their regular counterparts. Maybe with some unsettling lighting tricks going on or something. Just not camo. This is sci-fi guys, not freaking Army Studs.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.09.17 18:01:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Vrikshaka All this camo on navy ships.....why?!?!? Just have them be darker and more metallic than their regular counterparts. Maybe with some unsettling lighting tricks going on or something. Just not camo. This is sci-fi guys, not freaking Army Studs.
Have you seen the Amarr Armageddon and Apocalypse......
They look quite amazing.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.17 18:07:00 -
[596]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 17/09/2009 18:09:10
Originally by: Vrikshaka All this camo on navy ships.....why?!?!? Just have them be darker and more metallic than their regular counterparts. Maybe with some unsettling lighting tricks going on or something. Just not camo. This is sci-fi guys, not freaking Army Studs.
This. If camo's are absolutely needed, then add camos that fit the theme of Eve: black, dark red, dark orange, did I mention black yet? Oooh, how about BLACK? Get the hint yet?
Or do something like what you did with the Armageddon. Now there's a ship that causes drool .
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.17 19:31:00 -
[597]
Overall I am quite disappointed.
Comparing stat for stat the new navy tier 1 bs are pretty much the tech 1 bs with a new paint job. slightly better stats but nothing spectacular unless you are looking at the navy scorpion, which had all its bonuses changed. or the extra mid slot like in the navy geddon.
Critique 1.
Navy means - supposed to be better in everything than the tech 1 / tier 1.
Suggestions
ALL SHIPS except for the navy scorpion - up the base resistances for shields and armor by 5% - cammo skin is meh. instead of jungle cammo try a blue / grey / black tones for cammo.
----------------------------
Navy domni - up the bonuses by 5%. like 15% to drone damage /hit points and
Navy scorp - put on 1 of the ECM bonuses, otherwise its just a repackaged rattle snake.
Navy phoon - add a 5% projectile damage bonus per minnie bs skill level.
Navy geddon - 5% bonus energy weapons per amarr bs level.
Tier 2 bs.
General -------- cammo sucks.
Fleet pest up the turret damage / rof bonus to 7.5%
navy mega up the hybrid damage to 7.5%
navy apocy hard to say with this one. but a 3% bonus damage for energy weapons
navy raven Im still thinking, but a 3.5% bonuse to kin missile damage per level. you know to fit with all the other caldari ships
I dont know just really tossing out some ideas there. but the idea is navy ships are supposed to be 1 step above everything else. minor damage boosts and base resists would make them more worth while.
yes feel free to tear apart my suggestion. but honestly the differences should be more than just cpu /pg and hp bonuses. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.17 21:07:00 -
[598]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 17/09/2009 21:08:43 The slicer has been nerfed hard on SISI even though the intent was to boost it. It does marginally more damage at a little more range however it lost 900m/s of speed. This happened because the fitting nerf on it to compensate for the removal of a turret is more than the turret actually used. In fact, it's about 3x what the turret used. The result is that currently on TQ, I have mine fitted with a mwd, on sisi I was forced to downgrade to an AB using the exact same fit minus one gun. With amarr frigate 4 it does basically the same damage, with 5 it will be a little bit higher but still, I'd rather have the speed. -----------------------------------------------------
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TheLibrarian
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.09.17 21:22:00 -
[599]
I love all the changes to all of the ships, I think they are well thought out and balanced for the ship type.
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Jek Tar'qul
Gallente Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.09.17 21:25:00 -
[600]
Where the **** did my god damn black paintjob go on my Navy Mega?!?!? **** you CCP, **** you and your ****ty camo ****jobs. Navy Domi also looks like a pile of brown and green dog ****.
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Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.17 21:52:00 -
[601]
We Gallente demand space trees to hide our newly camouflage painted ships behind.
Its the Federation way...
No seriously, please rethink the paintjobs - I tried a few races to begin with in my first months and eventuly settled for Gallente largely based on the looks of their ships and stations.
Changes during the classic graphics upgrade made a few Gallente ships less interesting (No more pink/red Ares for example), but these latest changes to the Navy Mega are just plain ugly and unnecessary.
Cheers.
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Passageway
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.17 21:56:00 -
[602]
ugly camo skin is ugly, ESPECIALLY on my Navy Mega
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Martineski
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Posted - 2009.09.17 22:44:00 -
[603]
Edited by: Martineski on 17/09/2009 22:46:01 why the **** did you totally ruin the Hookbill, it looked like a gunboat adn it should be such. with no shield bonus, and no turret bonus it is a buffed KESTREL, which it should not be, it is based on the MERLIN hull so it should have mixed weapons. the shield bonus and turret range bonus were what made it nice to use. now we have to deal with crappy missile damage bonuses and no guns, what a disgrace, the Caldari are supposed to be HYBRID fighters with shield tanks, not all out missile freaks that everyone claims them to be. and the Hookbill will not be a Hybrid of assault ships and interceptors if it has crappy base defences, the shield bonus and versatility that it currently has is what makes it good. Clearly the HYBRID part is misleading since the Harpy (Caldari Missile Assault ship) has a shield boost bonus and a missile bonus, and the Crow has a missile damage bonus, but both ships still ahve at least 1 available turret slot, so it wouldn't hurt to leave the Hookbill with 4 high slots (3 launchers, 1 turret), not to mention the fact that the Merlin had a shield bonus as well. and yes i read the LESS RESILIANT part from above, but this is going too far off the original ships. all of the Caldari missile ships of this hull had a shield bonus of some sort.
Caldari Navy Hookbill:ò New slot layout: 3 high, 5 med, 2 low slots, 3 launchers, no turretsò Fittings: 165 CPU, 37 powergridò Bonuses: 20% to missile kinetic damage, 10% to other missile damage, 10% to missile velocity per levelò
^^^edit the above stats to the following^^^
New Slot layout 4 Highs, 4 Meds, 2 Lows (3 Launchers, 1 Turret) Bonuses: 20% to kinetic missile damage 10% to missile Velocity, 5% to shield resistance per level.
add the turret to make it more of the HYBRID talked about, drop the multi missile bonus since this is NOT A KESTREL hull, drop a mid slot and add a 5% bonus to shield resistance to keep this hull inline with its Base t1, and the t2 upgrades.
if this can be achieved, then i will be happy with the Hookbill no longer being a sniper boat that it currently is.
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Takaed
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Posted - 2009.09.17 23:04:00 -
[604]
Like the stat increase on the mega (and the new domi) but please change the paintjob. ItÆs truly awful!
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aka Ishur
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.09.18 00:20:00 -
[605]
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.18 01:34:00 -
[606]
Fleet Tempest Feedback after a couple of fights in FD-:
I can't put my finger on it, but it lacks something. Tried a couple of different fittings, but it either lacked HP/Tank or DPS.
Won't buy one on Tranquility with the current stats, not worth it.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.18 03:25:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Mioelnir Fleet Tempest Feedback after a couple of fights in FD-:
I can't put my finger on it, but it lacks something. Tried a couple of different fittings, but it either lacked HP/Tank or DPS.
Won't buy one on Tranquility with the current stats, not worth it.
Thats what i was trying to say with my post. Navy ships arent really any different than their tech 1 counter parts. getting about the same dps in a navy thron vs a normal thron. same with pests. they need to have their damages upped a little. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.09.18 03:28:00 -
[608]
Originally by: Mioelnir Fleet Tempest Feedback after a couple of fights in FD-:
I can't put my finger on it, but it lacks something. Tried a couple of different fittings, but it either lacked HP/Tank or DPS.
Won't buy one on Tranquility with the current stats, not worth it.
2nded. Tried both armor and shield fits, and I was not impressed in the least.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.18 03:37:00 -
[609]
I would say a 7/5/7 would be the optimal for a fleet pest, but honestly it needs more dps. 7.5% per level instead of 5% would be a great boost. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.09.18 05:28:00 -
[610]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 18/09/2009 05:28:07
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I would say a 7/5/7 would be the optimal for a fleet pest, but honestly it needs more dps. 7.5% per level instead of 5% would be a great boost.
That could be interesting. Combined with an armor<->shield HP swap so it has more armor than shield. Well, that one it actually may already need at 8/5/6.
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2009.09.18 06:45:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
ALL SHIPS except for the navy scorpion - up the base resistances for shields and armor by 5%
I don't agree. Ships that put out blazing damange shouldn't be even more survivable.
Quote:
- cammo skin is meh. instead of jungle cammo try a blue / grey / black tones for cammo.
It is not like visuals are required for fighting, you can have a hot pink Hello Kitty ship and it wont make any performance difference in battle. I think if every ship is painted with the black or darker skins then it loses the appeal factor for those that do have that design and it just because the new norm.
I don't really spend a lot of time looking at my ship, it can be stock standard silver for all it matters. EVE ships are just far too disposable for me to get any real attachment to any of them, even the caps mean nothing.
Quote:
Navy domni - up the bonuses by 5%. like 15% to drone damage /hit points and
I don't agree, that would be pushing 600ish dps just from heavy drones or sentries.
I'd rather see more versatility added, increase bonus to drone reps or EW drone effectiveness.
Quote:
Navy scorp - put on 1 of the ECM bonuses, otherwise its just a repackaged rattle snake.
Umm, no. Rattlesnake can deliver brutal damage at medium range with siege torps if the target is webbed and painted. We are talking around 900dps with torps, rails and sentry drones at 60km+.
This ship is now an excellent long range fire support ship, with the sig radius a bit lower than a battlecruiser level which can do some respectable long range damage and is quite durable.
Quote:
navy raven Im still thinking, but a 3.5% bonuse to kin missile damage per level. you know to fit with all the other caldari ships
I'd prefer they ditch the bonus to kinetic on all caldari ships, the only real benefit of missiles is you can choose the damage type and it diminishes the benefit of versatility if your damage is dependent on always using kinetic missiles.
I'd like to see more of a unique benefit, something like an anti-countermeasure bonus where the missiles are more resistant to defenders and area effect weapons.
I haven't commented on the ships I do not really know intimately well.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.18 07:01:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Veldya
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Quote:
Navy domni - up the bonuses by 5%. like 15% to drone damage /hit points and
I don't agree, that would be pushing 600ish dps just from heavy drones or sentries.
I'd rather see more versatility added, increase bonus to drone reps or EW drone effectiveness.
now that would be interesting to see, a bonus to logistics drones are ewar drones.
maybe a bonus to the ship like, umm. 150% range to large armor reps. NO bonus to the amount, just range. that could really mix up how the ship was used.
personally i just want to see the navy ships use for something other than their tech 1 counterparts. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
wickedpheonix
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
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Posted - 2009.09.18 07:15:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
2) The Navy Scorpion: honestly, this is just terrible, and arguably even worse than a standard Raven. Sure, it's got a ton of EHP, a resist bonus, and 8 slots for tank, but in PvP dps is FAR more important than tank, and the missing launcher compared to the standard Raven is a huge drawback, while the missing range bonus takes away one of the Raven's major advantages. Add in the huge price thanks to only being available with FW LPs, and you have a ship that will see little use.
I honestly don't know what to do with this one without just making a better torp Raven. Perhaps dust off that old ECM/gank Scorpion you had when you were nerfing ECM ships? 6 launchers, ROF bonus, 30% ECM strength per level would be a fun ship to fly, if a bit expensive considering its chances of being immediately primaried.
In regards to the italicized, I point to all the Drake pilots out there. Tell them that tanks have no place in pvp (lol).
It basically looks like a Drake but with Torps (and appropriately balanced in terms of ehp etc.) which is why, when I read it, I CAME. Just hope market forces don't set the price too high.
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SuperNova221
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Posted - 2009.09.18 13:05:00 -
[614]
Dear CCP, You seem to have reskinned the Navythron, which I wouldn't mind much if it looked nice, but you have moddeled it on a splatter of puke, could you please fix this, please?
(P.S. The normal Domi skin stills needs fixed too)
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Hell'o
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Posted - 2009.09.18 13:10:00 -
[615]
give back ecm to navy scorps - they must have.
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Caroline Nikon
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Posted - 2009.09.18 14:28:00 -
[616]
Just remembering CCP how the NEW FLEET TEMPEST IS HORRIBLE !!!
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.18 14:30:00 -
[617]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òSpeed: reduced to 350m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 610mm
Caldari Navy Hookbill:
òSpeed: reduced to 360m/s òSensor: scan resolution decreased to 550mm
Gallente Navy Comet:
òSpeed: increased to 370m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 620mm
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òSensor: scan resolution increased to 660mm, signature radius decreased to 35m
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot (for a total of six)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight) |
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.18 14:37:00 -
[618]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot (for a total of six)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
meh, still wtb> Cnr, the navy scorp just doesn't really offer anything unique enough to justify the price.
I'd speak more about the phoon but as I don't fly it I don't want to ruin it for the people who do. how about a blanket 5% rof to battleship class weponry and then another bonus or something You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.18 15:03:00 -
[619]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
Whats the big deal about allowing 5/5 hardpoints? It should come on the t1 phoon as standard.
Also, please take a moment to view the link in my signature. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Aionstar
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Posted - 2009.09.18 15:50:00 -
[620]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òSpeed: reduced to 350m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 610mm
Caldari Navy Hookbill:
òSpeed: reduced to 360m/s òSensor: scan resolution decreased to 550mm
Gallente Navy Comet:
òSpeed: increased to 370m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 620mm
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òSensor: scan resolution increased to 660mm, signature radius decreased to 35m
wow, you give blaster ship a chance thanks
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Cornette
Gallente Black Screen of Death Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.18 16:15:00 -
[621]
I would have liked the 5/5 turret/launchers on the navy phoon. It would make it more different then just another lowslot that undoubtedly will go to fit another 1600MM plate for more HP.
And while we still speak about minmatar, a small boost to tempest/fleet tempest could be the same dronebay capacity and bandwidth as the new Mach: 125 and 100.
It would give em a bit more dps and flexibility.
Still, removing the 6th med on the fleet pest is still a big sucky idea and contradicts the notion that minmatar is about 'Versatility'...
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Vrikshaka
Yawn Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.18 16:22:00 -
[622]
Hi just popping in real quick to say that the camo skins on the new navy ships really, really look like ****.
Thanks,
V
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.18 16:27:00 -
[623]
Edited by: Lili Lu on 18/09/2009 16:28:18
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
Ok, well this gives me hope that we will not have these ships introduced to tranquility exactly as seeded on the test server. I might actually be interested in acquiring one, and even ack, doing fac fac fact that thing that might appear to be the only way to get one (instead of waiting for them to come onto contracts). Now on to the tempest.
And, I know this is the navy ship thread, but please rethink the Gurista ships. I hate ecm, but making them primarilly drone boats is just wrong. They should be rof or damage bonused missile ships, with a little ecm from Caldari, and a little drone from Gallente. How about a base scorp ecm strength bonus (not ecm range, or shield resist), and a base addition to drone bay capacity (not drone bandwidth or damage bonus).
edit- and no that extra low will not get filled with a 1600, more likely with an extra damage mod(split weapons) or a speed mod.
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Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.18 16:59:00 -
[624]
Is there a way to test these new ships on test server ?
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Megumi Yumiko
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Posted - 2009.09.18 17:31:00 -
[625]
the faction domi bonusen are not really geared towards drones more like cap as it wil lose a low slot I would rather had something to buff up the drones and keep the tank
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Vestus Regula
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.18 17:40:00 -
[626]
I can see why the regular scorpion doesn't have as many slots as the other battleships; just like the domi, it fits a specialized role. But considering its faction counterpart, the missing slot makes it subpar. Giving it an extra high OR low slot (besides the extra launcher which, let's be honest, was necessary) wouldn't make it broken.
Good call on the Typhoon slot change, though I'd probably give it an extra mid instead.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.18 17:50:00 -
[627]
I don't see a lot of use for the Gall Navy Domi. While it is nice to see a Navy Domi My current estimates place the cost at 1.5 billion.
As a mission ship the majority of the bonuses do not provide any substantial benefit over a Domi. The only advantage the it has is plus one mid slot. That allows you to create a Dokh (or you could call it a Romi). A shield tanked Domi With 425 mm rail guns and highs. The lows would be whatever you need to make 425 fit plus Mega Stabs and tracking links. So outside of a shield tank ship which boosts the secondary weapon system I don't see it being a lot of use for missions.
For PVP it's pretty awesome. Easier fitting, an extra mid slot, more sensor strength and that amazing 50% additional Effective hit points and you got a fabulous PvP ship.... Which will cost you 1.5 billion ISK. While the performance is fabulous the extreme cost will make its usage extremely limited. You basically never see on the battlefield. Pirate faction BSs will cost less and how many of those do you see out and about in PvP?
Unless something is done to make it more attractive for mission running or the value of the faction warfare loyalty points decreases significantly so the ship can be used in PvP, I'm just not seeing point.
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Jacob Mei
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.18 18:38:00 -
[628]
These reskins of the faction ships have better be place holders. Forest camo in space? Fire the idiot who thought that was smart and give me back my black/silver navy issue mega! On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod! |
Krusten Kandis
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Posted - 2009.09.18 18:58:00 -
[629]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
Why? Just why?
The 5/5 layout was what actually made the ship interesting. You could fit it any number of ways depending on your skills and it would be useful, now you stuffed it back into the straightjacket that it has been in since birth. And yes, I would give up a low slot for a 5/5 layout on the typhoon.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.09.18 19:07:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc Whats the big deal with allowing 5/5 hardpoints? It should come on the t1 phoon as standard.
I think CCP draws lots every two years to determine relative racial balance, and Minmatar haven't done well the last couple of times. I can't think of any other reason for the fact that pulling balance concessions out of CCP on Matari issues is like getting blood out of a stone.
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.18 19:19:00 -
[631]
Personally, I think it is a prelude to a projectile buff. I think they know what they plan to do, but are going to wait til after the Navy fleet ships are out to determine that.
Otherwise, the Fleet Tempest changes.. would be really, really poor, and who ever suggested them do in fact hate the Minmatar race as a whole.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Arkemn Trefore
New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.09.18 19:23:00 -
[632]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òSpeed: reduced to 350m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 610mm
Caldari Navy Hookbill:
òSpeed: reduced to 360m/s òSensor: scan resolution decreased to 550mm
Gallente Navy Comet:
òSpeed: increased to 370m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 620mm
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òSensor: scan resolution increased to 660mm, signature radius decreased to 35m
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot (for a total of six)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
As a minmatar pilot i understand why you don't want to add certain slots to the typhoon it is already overpowered. i was on test server with a t1 plated setup and killed everything that tried to fight me. the low slot was dumb you just gave me an extra 10k hp to murder more ships with. The med slot would be better served as it doesn't ad much to the ship. the turret thing should have been on the standard typhoon to begin with as changing the layout doesn't change the dps one bit. The only way to balance the fleet typhoon is a med slot and 5/5 split in high. it puts it in decent position to be as good as the other ships. The Navy Scorpion i am glad to see the change but you just made the CNR obsolete. The Fleet Tempest is no longer worth flying. never has been in my opinion but now oh god i will have to put a perma block on it showing in my lp store for the shame that something like that exists and is Minmatar.
The Republic Fleet LoLertail i didn't fly the hunk of crap before and wont fly it now.
The Navy Hookbil i can kill the Fleet Tempest with it.
I could go on and on seriously. What you did was take already crap and make it official crap. and polished a turd.
.........................
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Kariva
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Posted - 2009.09.18 20:36:00 -
[633]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
Raven Navy Issue:
òFittings: 735 CPU, 10925 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
Megathron Navy Issue:
òFittings: 605 CPU, 16275 powergrid òDronebay increased by 50m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +5% max velocity and agility increased by 5%
Nice job hiting caldari again !!! +50% shield recharge time on shileld tanking ship. Great bonus and one less large drone add(3+1) comparing to new megathron + 50m3(5+2spare) ...... O whait +25% sensor resolution for what the f.. i need that.. ? i would rather take the + 5% speed
Why to f.... do you have to nerf all good ship's in this game.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.18 20:37:00 -
[634]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òSpeed: reduced to 350m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 610mm
Caldari Navy Hookbill:
òSpeed: reduced to 360m/s òSensor: scan resolution decreased to 550mm
Gallente Navy Comet:
òSpeed: increased to 370m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 620mm
Republic Fleet Firetail:
òSensor: scan resolution increased to 660mm, signature radius decreased to 35m
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot (for a total of six)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
I'm glad to see the typhoon get another low slot.
It's also nice to see the navy scorp get another launcher. At least it can equal the base T1 raven for dps now, which is nice, I suppose. Still having a hard time seeing a role for this ship - I think it really needs more powergrid.
I also wish the typhoon could keep it's 5/5 layout.
Regarding the frigates: the hookbill seems so much less useful than the others. Granted part of this is frigate sized missiles being **** generally, but it's just not very attractive.
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Crotch Goblin
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Posted - 2009.09.18 20:44:00 -
[635]
So when do we get navy tier 3 battleships? These are nice but why not tier 3 as well.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.18 20:57:00 -
[636]
That Navy Scorp looks better now, although I haven't checked to see how everything actually fits. DPS of a Raven but with much more tank, while CNR has the tank of a Raven (yeah yeah more base EHP though) but with more gank. Sounds sensible enough, although there's only so many ways you can do shield + missile BS.
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.09.18 21:25:00 -
[637]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 8 high, 4 med, 7 low, 5 turrets, 5 launchers òFittings: 660 CPU, 13125 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots òHitpoints: +50% hit points on hull (9316), armor (9316) and shields (8203)* òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSpeed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10% òSensor: +25% ladar sensor strength
I MUST OWN THIS SHIP!
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.18 21:26:00 -
[638]
Even without the added launcher the Navy Scorp is great. It's tank on a 1v1 basis is outstanding. Couldn't even come CLOSE to scratching it with my Navy Geddon.
Navy Geddon is awesome. Same DPS and tank as my Navy Mega, but a whole tier SMALLER and look, it's good to 15KM, instead of 4KM! Awesome. Possibly cheaper as well?
Navy Domi is great. Will be a good PVE ship. Haven't had much time with the Phoon. Yeah, it's better than the normal Phoon, but is it really that special? Needs a 5/5 launcher/gun layout IMO. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Hoinus
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.09.18 21:40:00 -
[639]
The calibration of the Navy Dominix should be kept at 400. Now I would be able keep same Level 4 fit with a webber/ab.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.18 23:58:00 -
[640]
I like the idea of the extra low slot on the phoon. but it should remain 5/5 in hard points. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
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Yami Kitsune
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Posted - 2009.09.19 00:35:00 -
[641]
Edited by: Yami Kitsune on 19/09/2009 00:35:29 what about navy rokh or hyperion same as maelstorm and abbadon - it would be nice if those ships get some faction type improvements.
it would be nice to reduce number of raven's in space ;)
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.19 06:04:00 -
[642]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Navy Frigate Changes
I am not sure the Slicer will be viable when that slow compared to others.
With just two midslots you are carrying scrambler only giving limited ability to dictate range (none against AB fits). The Punisher works due to its tank and Crusader due to its tracking, with neither the Slicer is a toy. With all others having higher speed and full tackle the range advantage is almost completely negated.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.19 07:18:00 -
[643]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Scorpion Navy Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot (for a total of six)
I will take back what I said earlier about the navy scorp if it gets a bit more fitting, a bit tight to fit on sisi with only 5 launchers You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.19 07:35:00 -
[644]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òSpeed: reduced to 350m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 610mm
The slicer is already slower on sisi than on TQ, why nerf it further? Seriously. You removed all it's grid, now it's forced to downgrade to an AB from a mwd using an otherwise identical setup. Please, give it some grid back. Small pulse lasers use 5 grid, not 15 which is what got yanked off. Similar problem for CPU. Using an AB instead of a mwd should be a tactical decision, not a forced one.
On a related note, the AB bonus on AF's makes all faction frigates without a mwd hopelessly outclassed. Faction ships should be equal to t2 but different. I recommend doing away with the speed bonus to AF's. Some of them are ok with it but others like the jaguar become epically overpowered. I played with it earlier, the jag was going 1600m/s with an AB and a single nano in the lows. That's almost as much as a plated slicer with a mwd, not that a mwd fits on it anymore. -----------------------------------------------------
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Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.19 12:38:00 -
[645]
The scorpion theme is boring tbh, you could make a sheild tanking blaster boat for a change... nto Rattlesnake mk.2.
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DXYOC
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Posted - 2009.09.19 12:48:00 -
[646]
Eerybody here(including me) hates the New Navy Domi/Mega paintjob changes please PLEASE change to something good looking.A more sleek paintjob not camo in space FFS. Please CCP.
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Jason Marshall
Gallente Hammer Of Light Praetorian Guards.
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Posted - 2009.09.19 13:45:00 -
[647]
Originally by: King Rothgar
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òSpeed: reduced to 350m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 610mm
The slicer is already slower on sisi than on TQ, why nerf it further? Seriously. You removed all it's grid, now it's forced to downgrade to an AB from a mwd using an otherwise identical setup. Please, give it some grid back. Small pulse lasers use 5 grid, not 15 which is what got yanked off. Similar problem for CPU. Using an AB instead of a mwd should be a tactical decision, not a forced one.
On a related note, the AB bonus on AF's makes all faction frigates without a mwd hopelessly outclassed. Faction ships should be equal to t2 but different. I recommend doing away with the speed bonus to AF's. Some of them are ok with it but others like the jaguar become epically overpowered. I played with it earlier, the jag was going 1600m/s with an AB and a single nano in the lows. That's almost as much as a plated slicer with a mwd, not that a mwd fits on it anymore.
Think about it this way...they could be nerfing scorch instead. Tacky Lensflares in sigs ftw
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Vanden
The Happy Spacemen Ascendancy United
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Posted - 2009.09.19 14:21:00 -
[648]
Originally by: King Rothgar The slicer is already slower on sisi than on TQ
No, it is not. 287 base speed on TQ, and soon to be 350 on SISI.
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Br41n
Amarr Pinky and the Brain corp
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Posted - 2009.09.19 19:12:00 -
[649]
I love the camo colours, it will come in handy when i fly through a bushy enviroment in eve ....
really make m pitch black or something like that ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.19 22:05:00 -
[650]
Navy Geddon has real problems fitting a full set of 7 Mega Puls T2. Nearly not posible to fitt either plates or rep without fitting mods.
While the normal Geddon has the same problems I belive the IMPERIAL version should be a bit more powerfull and able to fitt Mega Pulse T2 without these problems.
Originally by: CCP Nozh Where do tech 3 ships fit in?The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife Dominatus Atrum Mortis
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Posted - 2009.09.19 22:54:00 -
[651]
Edited by: Mahke on 19/09/2009 22:55:19
Originally by: King Rothgar
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Amarr Navy Slicer:
òSpeed: reduced to 350m/s òSensor: scan resolution increased to 610mm
The slicer is already slower on sisi than on TQ, why nerf it further? Seriously. You removed all it's grid, now it's forced to downgrade to an AB from a mwd using an otherwise identical setup. Please, give it some grid back. Small pulse lasers use 5 grid, not 15 which is what got yanked off. Similar problem for CPU. Using an AB instead of a mwd should be a tactical decision, not a forced one.
On a related note, the AB bonus on AF's makes all faction frigates without a mwd hopelessly outclassed. Faction ships should be equal to t2 but different. I recommend doing away with the speed bonus to AF's. Some of them are ok with it but others like the jaguar become epically overpowered. I played with it earlier, the jag was going 1600m/s with an AB and a single nano in the lows. That's almost as much as a plated slicer with a mwd, not that a mwd fits on it anymore.
I haven't tried to EFT or test this, but, was looking forward very much to the slicer from what I heard originally from others. However, reduced speed + being forced by fittings to use an AB will make it terrible: strictly inferior to the new AFs; not capable of being an alternative to the crusader due to fittings. Oh well . There's always crusaders and crosstraining.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.19 23:04:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Jack Jombardo Navy Geddon has real problems fitting a full set of 7 Mega Puls T2. Nearly not posible to fitt either plates or rep without fitting mods.
While the normal Geddon has the same problems I belive the IMPERIAL version should be a bit more powerfull and able to fitt Mega Pulse T2 without these problems.
Seriously? You're doing it wrong.
Easy Navy Geddon fit:
7x MP2
mwd, web, scram, t2 cap booster
t2 large armor rep, 1600 plate, t2 eanm, t2 anp, 3x t2 heatsinks, damage control
2x trimarks, 1x grid rig
Done.
Navy Geddon is stupid awesome. Same Armor HP as the Navy Mega, 92% of the peak gun DPS of the Navy mega with SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT more optimal range. Same drone DPS. This ship is the equal of the Navy Mega (which is a Tier 2 BS) in almost every respect, and is superior to the Navy Mega in range by a VERY LARGE margin. And I'm not even getting into the advantages of Scorch yet.
-- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.09.19 23:08:00 -
[653]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
And now the Fleet Typhoon is no longer interesting. I was considering training up battleships just to fly a fleet typhoon, but apparently 5/5 is just TOO MUCH versatility. _________
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demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus
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Posted - 2009.09.19 23:30:00 -
[654]
phoon changes blow
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.19 23:45:00 -
[655]
Originally by: Pater Peccavi
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
And now the Fleet Typhoon is no longer interesting. I was considering training up battleships just to fly a fleet typhoon, but apparently 5/5 is just TOO MUCH versatility.
Phoon needs 5/5. Hell, REGULAR Phoon needs 5/5
Navy Phoon needs 5/5 and another low. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.20 01:50:00 -
[656]
They tell me that Pyfa has all of the ships available for testing.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Xyleya
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.09.20 02:13:00 -
[657]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 *snip*
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
You seriuosly don't have any clou about MinMatar-ships.
The standard Typhoon should've been 5/5 Turrets/Launcher from the very beginning allready. .
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Mineralia TheFirst
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Posted - 2009.09.20 04:43:00 -
[658]
the navy domi needs a 7th high slot for a hvy neut.
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King Rothgar
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.20 05:09:00 -
[659]
The phoon should have always been 8/8 for turrets/launchers and have been giving 2 bonuses to each weapon type, that's versatility. Anyways, navy geddon is great as is. It's no better than an abaddon but is a bit different in that more dps comes from drones and although it has a comparable amount of armor, it has less resistance. I find myself using the standard geddon setup with it except I get more cpu/grid to better fill the midslots and utility high. Leaving the mwd off (it's amarr, we don't use speed mods) it has plenty of resources to fit other things. I fit mine like this:
Highs: 7x DHP II, Large Smartbomb. Mids: 24km point, t2 web, ECCM II, heavy cap booster II. Lows: LAR II, DCII, 2x EANM II, 2x 1600mm RT plate, 2x HS II. Rigs: 3x Trimark
Result is standard geddon dps + a smartbomb for killing drones. Tank is massive and has dps to match. I'd say it's worth 300-400M isk on TQ. I don't really think there is any way to improve upon or any balancing needed for it. It does exactly what the standard geddon does, it's just a lot better at it. I did notice that after fitting mine like this that it had a lot of grid and cpu left over, half the guns could easily be upgraded to MP II's and with AWU5, it may even be possible to fit all 7 turret slots with MPII's. -----------------------------------------------------
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A HOBO
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Posted - 2009.09.20 10:03:00 -
[660]
Current navy phoon seems to be just a regular foon with 50 more dps as a torp replaces an ac. slight Cpu issues restricting the amount of damage mods you can fit. its better than the regular phoon no doubt but it dosent realy feel exciting as a faction ship should...i mean the only thing thats diferent is the numbers under the gun groups.
Realy think it could benefit from an extra low slot and some extra cpu, Idealy retaining the 5th missile slot, perhaps as a trade of for a couple turret slots considering with the norm of one rr you only use 2 of them anyway, also does anyone ever actualy choose to use all acs instead of torps on this thing?
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Sunlord Topui
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Posted - 2009.09.20 12:19:00 -
[661]
New Megathron Navy issue is a bit ugly.... very ugly actually. I hope they change it. Otherwise than that, everything looks good, can't wait to get my hands on navy Phoon!
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.20 15:10:00 -
[662]
what about the CRUISERS? -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Knabe
4 Marketeers
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Posted - 2009.09.20 18:28:00 -
[663]
Originally by: Vylth Am I the only one not happy at all with the dominix?
For years now I've wanted an upgraded version that does more damage with drones. There is no subcap in the game that does more drone DPS than a plain old t1 dominix with T2 drones, and with this new version there still won't be.
I'm not looking for a broken bonus like the guardian-vexor, but anything better than the regular domi would be nice.
I could't agree with you more. I was hoping that when a faction Domi came out that it would get more than a mid slot and some power grid. Out of the box bonous would have been more creative and appreciated. Like giving it an extra drone per level and taking away the turret points,and only allowing drone mods to go in the high slots. It would then be a true drone boat. I think that there was no real thought process that went into this, its kind like a passive drake in the alliance tourney.
Just a guy flying his way around the Universe. |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.09.20 22:29:00 -
[664]
Edited by: Awesome Possum on 20/09/2009 22:33:56
Quote: Republic Fleet Firetail: ò New slot layout: 3 high
Also taking away the speed bonus?!?
Please don't take away my 4th high, don't ruin my totally awesome ninja salvage ship :( ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.21 02:41:00 -
[665]
Ok my thoughts on the navy phoon after trying it.
8/4/8 with 5/5 on hard points is goood!
What it still needs - dps is still lower than others. I say as a special ability or something else it really needs a 10-20% bonues to projectile damage. or maybe a a speed bonus. just some thoughts. I would rather see the damage bonus though.
Navy domni
needs a tad more dps by way of hybrids. instead of 5% per level do 7.5% --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.21 05:46:00 -
[666]
Edited by: Lili Lu on 21/09/2009 05:52:15 Edited by: Lili Lu on 21/09/2009 05:47:24
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 18/09/2009 14:30:19 Update on new changes (not going to make it for this evening test unfortunately)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
Was just on the test server tonight. Apparently this change to the typhoon still has not made it on there. Was still the crappy no extra slot (8 high, 4 mid, 7 low) and 5/5 as an insufficient consolation. Give it the low, or a mid, please.
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense.
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Posted - 2009.09.21 06:10:00 -
[667]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 21/09/2009 06:19:04
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Navy Geddon is awesome. Same DPS and tank as my Navy Mega, but a whole tier SMALLER and look, it's good to 15KM, instead of 4KM! Awesome. Possibly cheaper as well?
Navy geddon makes navy mega obsolete tbh. CCP knows this, that's why they changed navy mega to the fugly camo skin.
Originally by: DXYOC Eerybody here(including me) hates the New Navy Domi/Mega paintjob changes please PLEASE change to something good looking.A more sleek paintjob not camo in space FFS. Please CCP.
Amen. Mega, at least, shouldn't get changed. It already HAS a super sexy skin, why the hell would you give it that hillbilly camo skin? Gallente are of French origins, not Kentuckian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.21 06:46:00 -
[668]
Well, I did some testing on the Hookbill, and it really seem to have too little grid, but also cpu.
I fitted it with 3 Rocket (ofc), MWD (best named), MSE II, 24km WD II, Small cap booster II, Target Painter (I had 17 cpu left after the rest of the fit, and needed somethingà), Aux Power Core, DCII.
Since it was stated that is was going to by an AF/Inty hybrid I then of course want to use its inbuilt speed and its range bonus to stay outside web/scram range. But having CPU issue and PG issues in such a basic fit is not good. Drop the MSE, then you die pretty quick since you have no tank, use AB then you are just too slow to keep up and might as well use a T1 frig for same performance.
I think it should have the grid on par with say the Harpy (and so should the Hawk as well!). Missiles are kind of demanding on their fitting, and need the ships to support it.
These new changes in bonuses are great however! As is the weapon layout and intended role. Therefore I am exited about this ship, and I think it needs more fitting to really follow through on it.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Opertone
Caldari Monsters
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Posted - 2009.09.21 07:03:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Well, I did some testing on the Hookbill, and it really seem to have too little grid, but also cpu.
I fitted it with 3 Rocket (ofc), MWD (best named), MSE II, 24km WD II, Small cap booster II, Target Painter (I had 17 cpu left after the rest of the fit, and needed somethingà), Aux Power Core, DCII.
Since it was stated that is was going to by an AF/Inty hybrid I then of course want to use its inbuilt speed and its range bonus to stay outside web/scram range. But having CPU issue and PG issues in such a basic fit is not good. Drop the MSE, then you die pretty quick since you have no tank, use AB then you are just too slow to keep up and might as well use a T1 frig for same performance.
Very true, sir. I want a ship that is supreme, not routine, for its rarity it got to be overpowering. Please give it more of all, because now ishkurs still dominate these frigates. Everyone would fly tech 2 AFs for the resistance bonuses and wide market availability, and faction ships would remain '**ssy magnet' as Boradt used to say.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.21 07:17:00 -
[670]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
Please consider letting it keep the 5/5 hardpoint layout, that was something that really opened up new possibilities for fitting the thing.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.21 08:19:00 -
[671]
Adding to above: the 5/5 hardpoint layout would give the Phoon some more flexibility, which is supposed to be the whole point. I don't see an extra low + the 5/5 layout as being unbalanced in any way... and if needs be, just slighly reduce some other value(s) to compensate. The 5/5 phoon was a very interesting ship, the "extra lowslot" one is a lot more "meh".
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Keyn Thror
Minmatar N.S.
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Posted - 2009.09.21 09:38:00 -
[672]
Please, make the 5/5 turrets/launchers Navy Typhoon variant!
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To mare
Amarr Advanced Technology
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Posted - 2009.09.21 11:25:00 -
[673]
typhoon with 5/5 hardpoints and 8-4-8 slots would be the best but if i have to choiche between 4/4 with 8-4-8 or 5/5 8-4-7 the first one is absolutely better 8low ftw.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.21 11:48:00 -
[674]
Originally by: adriaans what about the CRUISERS?
They were the first to be rebalanced just before the speed nerf. At same tiem they introduced the scythe fleet issue they revampe the stabber .. etc..
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.21 12:15:00 -
[675]
Originally by: Gypsio III That Navy Scorp looks better now, although I haven't checked to see how everything actually fits. DPS of a Raven but with much more tank, while CNR has the tank of a Raven (yeah yeah more base EHP though) but with more gank. Sounds sensible enough, although there's only so many ways you can do shield + missile BS.
And given the nature of Siege Missiles, the only BS sized missile system worth using, it leaves room for only a buffer tank, unless you want to use too much fitting mods. What I do like about navy scorp is more mids for EWAR that CNR has no room for.
I am happy to see the added grid and CPU on CNR tho. Now I can fit it more interestingly, so thats a very nice step in the right direction.
But I can only dream of active tanking it unless I want to deal dps on par with a HM Drake. :D
Also, shield RR is out of the window, but thats more due to the fitting req of shild RR mods (the req is insanly cpu heavy, bordering on usless for most non dedicated ships).
As a more concrete change to hookbill, consider adding 10 more grid, and make velocity bonus 15%. That would aid it a long way to becomming a faction frig that one can be scared of. Now its, I am sad to say, an overpriced kestrel, albeit a tad faster, but still to litte cpu to actually use the nice mids it got.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Vanden
The Happy Spacemen
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Posted - 2009.09.21 12:27:00 -
[676]
The problem with the Hookbill isn't so much the ship, but the weapons it uses. Light missiles kill at a glacial pace, even when the target is painted/webbed, and rockets lack the DPS for it to compete in close range slugfests, despite the ability to fit a decent buffer.
Rockets were mentioned as possibly being due some love soon, and I think the results of those changes are going to be what decides the effectiveness of the Hookbill.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.21 12:57:00 -
[677]
Originally by: To mare typhoon with 5/5 hardpoints and 8-4-8 slots would be the best but if i have to choiche between 4/4 with 8-4-8 or 5/5 8-4-7 the first one is absolutely better 8low ftw.
Fair enough... and yeah, I mostly agree.
My thinking is just that the 5/5 layout would not really add to the raw power of the ship, but it would add to the versatility -- which would be very welcome. In other words, if the extra lowslot is seen to be ok for balance reasons, I don't really see why the 5/5 layout would change that balance.
It would allow you to go missiles-only or guns-only more reasonably -- but if you do that, you're wasting half the ship bonus, so it's a tradeoff.
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Lilith Krell
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Posted - 2009.09.21 13:56:00 -
[678]
Camo = bad
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.21 14:38:00 -
[679]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 21/09/2009 14:46:21 well... the 5% rof on missiles is a "full" ship bonus; unlike the raven, a phoon doesn't need extra range either (or... not that much) 'cause it can bring the damage to the opponent with it's minmatar speed (or what's left of it). so basically everybody was fitting torps anyways; projectiles require the double-bonus to be par with the other weapons
it isn't really more or less versatile, it's just less dps... instead of 5 "properly" bonus'ed torp launchers, we have to replace one with a half ass'ed projectile (redundancy spotted! -.-)
but yes, we got a slot \o/
so instead of the 5torps+2AC+neut you'll have to make do with 4torps+3AC+neut - you'll pack 3 BCU with that eigth low slot now, cause it's more effective either way (lol... 's true...)
in numbers: 5+2+util, 2BCU, 5 ogreII was 1066 4+3+util, 3BCU, 5 ogreII will be 1073 while consuming ~325 more pg with that AC
5+2+util, 3BCU, 5 ogreII would've been 1167 </edit>
which brings me to the question of... will there be any pg/cpu upgrades coming with that slot? - putting the gist back into logistics |
Max Essen
Gallente Bison Industrial Inc
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Posted - 2009.09.21 14:48:00 -
[680]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
I. Navy Frigates:
Due to their split weapon layout and lack of dedicated role, navy frigates usefulness remains quite limited. We plan to turn them into an hybrid of interceptors and Assault frigate classes, combining points of both, being less specialized than the Tech2 hulls, thus more versatile but less resilient.
Gallente Navy Comet:
òHas been renamed to Federation Navy Comet òNew slot layout: 3 high, 3 med, 4 low slots, 2 turrets, no launchers òFittings: 152 CPU, 40 powergrid òBonuses: 20% small hybrid turret damage and 7.5% small hybrid turret tracking per level òHitpoints: not changed, keeps 50% more hit points buffer next to its tech 1 counterpart (Tristan) òDronebay increased to 30m3, drone bandwidth increased to 15m3 òCapacitor: 365 capacitor, 234.375s recharge (about 1.55 cap/s) òSpeed: 350m/s, 3.3 agility òSensor: 32km targeting range, 4 locked targets, 580mm scan resolution, 11 magnetometric sensor strength, 42m signature radius
Not sure about this, loosing one Hi Slot and all missile launcher ability ... for 3 light drones? As it was the only Gallente (faction) frigate able to use missiles, please don't take this away.
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Goldboom
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:33:00 -
[681]
I'm missing the point here of more speed and less power especially less high slots. What would be the point of using an expensive ship when you can speed tank in a simple interceptor except if it does more damage.
Please reconsider the changes in high slot. Or, if you really want to change somthing, give them the ability to use tech II cloaking, without ewar possibilities.
Also a ship with smartbomb bonus would be nice (and a real pain in the ass )
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Tier Ha'i
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Posted - 2009.09.21 19:24:00 -
[682]
still no damage increase for the navy domi for drones
tbh i think what most drone users want is a ship thats focused on drones not drone/guns for damage so how about removing 2-3 turret slots and giving the navy domi a better drone bonus, and maybe get rid of the gun bonus for something tanking/ewar/another drone bonus scorp got a bonus rework no reason the domi cant
or maybe some drone implants ? dont forget about drone users please
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.21 19:41:00 -
[683]
Edited by: Ulstan on 21/09/2009 19:44:58 The navy scorp really needs enough grid to use sieges and active tank. I don't want this to turn into another passive buffer tank raven type of ship. We already have a couple of those.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Well, I did some testing on the Hookbill, and it really seem to have too little grid, but also cpu.
I fitted it with 3 Rocket (ofc), MWD (best named), MSE II, 24km WD II, Small cap booster II, Target Painter (I had 17 cpu left after the rest of the fit, and needed somethingà), Aux Power Core, DCII.
Since it was stated that is was going to by an AF/Inty hybrid I then of course want to use its inbuilt speed and its range bonus to stay outside web/scram range. But having CPU issue and PG issues in such a basic fit is not good. Drop the MSE, then you die pretty quick since you have no tank, use AB then you are just too slow to keep up and might as well use a T1 frig for same performance.
I think it should have the grid on par with say the Harpy (and so should the Hawk as well!). Missiles are kind of demanding on their fitting, and need the ships to support it.
These new changes in bonuses are great however! As is the weapon layout and intended role. Therefore I am exited about this ship, and I think it needs more fitting to really follow through on it.
You're quite right that the hookbill is strapped for fittings and doesn't really measure up to the daredevil or slicer.
However, this is a problem with frigate sized missiles, not a problem unique to the hookbill. The worm is also similarly hampered by using missiles, but at least it does have some drones. But any missile only using frigate is not as good as its peers.
Stanard missile launchers are very demanding on the fitting, and fairly low dps.
Rockets just suck in every way imaginable. Heavy on the fittings for their low dps, very low dps when compared to the other short ranged weapons, absurdly low explosion velocity for an anti-frig weapon, and so on.
Missiles for frigates need a comprehsensive overhaul, and it needs to be part of dominion. Otherwise the navy hookbill will simply be terrible for a long time. It will be the Hawk of the navy frigates (The Hawk is hands down the worst AF, largely because frigate missiles are bad across the board, but also because it does less damage than its T1 hull, the kestrel)
Much of the problem stems from the fact there are exactly two frigate sized missile turrets. Rocket launcher, and standard launcher.
Compare this to hybrid turrets, where you have three different short range versions (electron, ion, neutron) and three different long range versions (75mm, 125mm, 150mm). These give you excellent flexibility in terms of range, damage, and fitting. Frigate missiles need an equally large spread of options, given how tight fittings are onf ig
But standard missile launchers take as much PG and CPU as 150mm railguns. There's no reason at all to give a missile frigate less powergrid than a rail frigate. And rocket launchers are way more CPU intensive than most blasters or all autocannons, so probably a missile frigate needs more CPU and as much PG as gun frigates.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.21 20:21:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Ulstan Edited by: Ulstan on 21/09/2009 19:44:58 The navy scorp really needs enough grid to use sieges and active tank. I don't want this to turn into another passive buffer tank raven type of ship. We already have a couple of those.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Well, I did some testing on the Hookbill, and it really seem to have too little grid, but also cpu.
I fitted it with 3 Rocket (ofc), MWD (best named), MSE II, 24km WD II, Small cap booster II, Target Painter (I had 17 cpu left after the rest of the fit, and needed something…), Aux Power Core, DCII.
Since it was stated that is was going to by an AF/Inty hybrid I then of course want to use its inbuilt speed and its range bonus to stay outside web/scram range. But having CPU issue and PG issues in such a basic fit is not good. Drop the MSE, then you die pretty quick since you have no tank, use AB then you are just too slow to keep up and might as well use a T1 frig for same performance.
I think it should have the grid on par with say the Harpy (and so should the Hawk as well!). Missiles are kind of demanding on their fitting, and need the ships to support it.
These new changes in bonuses are great however! As is the weapon layout and intended role. Therefore I am exited about this ship, and I think it needs more fitting to really follow through on it.
You're quite right that the hookbill is strapped for fittings and doesn't really measure up to the daredevil or slicer.
However, this is a problem with frigate sized missiles, not a problem unique to the hookbill. The worm is also similarly hampered by using missiles, but at least it does have some drones. But any missile only using frigate is not as good as its peers.
Stanard missile launchers are very demanding on the fitting, and fairly low dps.
Rockets just suck in every way imaginable. Heavy on the fittings for their low dps, very low dps when compared to the other short ranged weapons, absurdly low explosion velocity for an anti-frig weapon, and so on.
Missiles for frigates need a comprehsensive overhaul, and it needs to be part of dominion. Otherwise the navy hookbill will simply be terrible for a long time. It will be the Hawk of the navy frigates (The Hawk is hands down the worst AF, largely because frigate missiles are bad across the board, but also because it does less damage than its T1 hull, the kestrel)
Much of the problem stems from the fact there are exactly two frigate sized missile turrets. Rocket launcher, and standard launcher.
Compare this to hybrid turrets, where you have three different short range versions (electron, ion, neutron) and three different long range versions (75mm, 125mm, 150mm). These give you excellent flexibility in terms of range, damage, and fitting. Frigate missiles need an equally large spread of options, given how tight fittings are onf ig
But standard missile launchers take as much PG and CPU as 150mm railguns. There's no reason at all to give a missile frigate less powergrid than a rail frigate. And rocket launchers are way more CPU intensive than most blasters or all autocannons, so probably a missile frigate needs more CPU and as much PG as gun frigates.
I agree. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.09.21 21:55:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Pater Peccavi
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: weapon layout back to 4 turrets and 4 launchers, receives an additional low-slot instead (for a total of eight)
And now the Fleet Typhoon is no longer interesting. I was considering training up battleships just to fly a fleet typhoon, but apparently 5/5 is just TOO MUCH versatility.
5/5 is no versatility at all. Anyone fitting 5 autocannons should be flying a maestrom and doing it properly. The only sensible thing would be to fit 5 torps and use remaining slots for utility, which while being versatile in a way, has nothing to do with one half of the 5/5 story. Try actually TRAINING up battleships instead of just considering it and you'll see.
4/4 means that you should actually take fitting 4 ACs in the remaining highs into consideration. If it's not broken, don't fix it tbh.
The new fleet phoon is actually better than old one imo. Yeah it's basically a normal phoon with awesome tank and even more agility and speed, but I don't see the problem. Really looking forward to flying it. If you want a utility-intensive ship with lot of RRs or neutralizers dps usually won't be your top concern, while tank should.
Navy scorp on the other hand looks OP to me with 6 launchers and monster tank capability. Only took a glance at the stats tho, didn't try checking what fits and what doesnt. But tank/gank mix on that thing should be insane if it can use 6 siege launchers without sacrificing lows for rcus and similar rubbish.
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Azool Zarnok
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Posted - 2009.09.21 23:47:00 -
[686]
Edited by: Azool Zarnok on 21/09/2009 23:55:44 My first point is pretty basic, either you lower the potential price of ALL the Tier 1 navy ships, or you improve all of them so that people might actually consider buying them for ANY REASON OTHER THEN BEING RICH COLLECTORS WHO WILL NEVER FLY THEM!!
the fact of the matter is that all the ships are (or will be under the current planned revisions) much too expensive for any form of pvp. this creats a double problame sadly... one is that not many people will EVER fly the damn things in pvp, and if someone IS either Disgustingly wealthy enough, Brave enough, or is just an idiot and really tries to use the ship in pvp combat, it will most likely be the first ship targated and the first one to pop.... we already have this problame with existing navy ships, but at least they are currently availabe through normal LP stores, making them more available and affordable for PVE players, and thats a good thing considering that PVE players are probably the only people who can safely make that kind of investment in them.
so, we are left with two obvious solutions.
#1 Lower the potential price tag of these ships considerably and maintain their current stats. Despite the constant Groaning from my fellow Pilots that the current setups on the Tier 1 navy ships are either Much too OP or not nearly powerful enough, i believe they strike a (Relatively) decent balance. not only would this allow more pilots to experience these ships it would also make them more common in all types of PVP and therefore less of an "OMFG EVERYONE LOOK ITS AN EXPENSIVE SHIP LETS RUIN THAT GUYS DAY!!" now I'm not suggesting that they be completely affordable, as it should still be an expensive ship compared to their "Brothers in Hull" but the idea that they could be upwards of ten times as expensive worries me to no end. That being said i beleive that EVERY navy ship should have it's Calibration Returned to 400. it causes no harm to the race balance of the game and allowes people to fit their favorite rigs from their old Battleships on to their Shiny (this under the assumption that CCP will fix the Camo skins... DO IT) new Navy issue ships of the same hull class.
#2 keep the prices the same and Improve the Stats of every ship. This will allow these ships to have SOME chance of surviving PVP engagements and will mean that their value will not be purely as Trophy ships. they will still be as rare as they normally would be but these changes might actually make the investment and risk worthwhile with the additional pay off that owning AND FIELDING one of these ships might bring. many people will have their own ideas of how best to accomplish this, but here is my suggestion. as a matter of course i believe all navy ships should have their Calibration set to AT LEAST 400. there are no lack of ideas floating around as to what ship should receive how many slots and where. so i am going to do us all a favor and ignore that subject entirely. i couldn't care less about the slots as long as none of the ships Receive LESS slots in any given area then their Standard issue Cousins. What i think would be the best idea is to increase all bonuses on all Navy ships by 2.5% to 5%. for instance, a navy Domi would receive a Bonus to Drone damage and Hitpoints somewhere in the region of 12.5% to 15% IF this were the case it would go without saying that EVERY Teir 1 navy ship would have ALL their bonuses increased in the same fashion. would this make them OP, Probably, But given their Price tag, if these ships WERENT OP then i would be dissapointed, TO THE CORE, with ccp in regards to the lack of forthought put into these ships. if its going to be that Expensive, It Better Be Worth It!!!
to quote a recent dev blog "If we have a really compelling game experience, and we have players that want to try it out but can't, then we're doing something wrong somewhere." - CCP Greyscale Get the Picture CCP?
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.09.22 02:31:00 -
[687]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 22/09/2009 02:31:43 Just a reminder that I would like Ytterbium to explain how the navy mega isn't going to be made 99.9% obsolete when the navy arma hits TQ.*
*assuming current specs are used ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.22 11:48:00 -
[688]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 22/09/2009 11:50:52 Not sure if this has been asked yet...
Are we going to get our purger rigs unfit for us now that the Shield recharge rate is being ****d effectively undoing the CNRs ability to passive?
I mean i havent run then numbers yet but I'm assuming a change from 2500 -> 33xx is pretty much a promise that the CNR cannot be a big fat drake.
I realize this might be an uncommon fit but didnt some people get their rigs unfit for them when a big change came? The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:04:00 -
[689]
Originally by: AccesiViale Edited by: AccesiViale on 22/09/2009 11:50:52 Not sure if this has been asked yet...
Are we going to get our purger rigs unfit for us now that the Shield recharge rate is being ****d effectively undoing the CNRs ability to passive?
I mean i havent run then numbers yet but I'm assuming a change from 2500 -> 33xx is pretty much a promise that the CNR cannot be a big fat drake.
I realize this might be an uncommon fit but didnt some people get their rigs unfit for them when a big change came?
You passive tank your CNR? Why!?
I am sure you can petiton them being removed.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:16:00 -
[690]
Originally by: AccesiViale I mean i havent run then numbers yet but I'm assuming a change from 2500 -> 33xx is pretty much a promise that the CNR cannot be a big fat drake.
Sir... step away from your CNR.
P.S. And drake.
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AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:16:00 -
[691]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Originally by: AccesiViale Edited by: AccesiViale on 22/09/2009 11:50:52 Not sure if this has been asked yet...
Are we going to get our purger rigs unfit for us now that the Shield recharge rate is being ****d effectively undoing the CNRs ability to passive?
I mean i havent run then numbers yet but I'm assuming a change from 2500 -> 33xx is pretty much a promise that the CNR cannot be a big fat drake.
I realize this might be an uncommon fit but didnt some people get their rigs unfit for them when a big change came?
You passive tank your CNR? Why!?
I am sure you can petiton them being removed.
If you run the numbers i think you will see that with t2 purgers it works out almost exactly like a drake....but with torps. Great for mission running...and now...not
Beast to tissue paper with one change. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Vilth Wiben
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Posted - 2009.09.22 12:25:00 -
[692]
Edited by: Vilth Wiben on 22/09/2009 12:25:54 Ok, awsome new ships(bs's), really fantastic. The color on the other hand does not do them justice.
How about shiny black with racial color lights...? hmmm
When are we going to see salvage drones?... we can mine with drones... how about salvage?
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.22 13:23:00 -
[693]
The Fleet issue tempest is clearly the worst out of the bunch.
Infact it's worse now than it was before.
Beyond that, fit the cammo patterns on the Gall Navy ships and maybe the ease the fittings a little bit on the scorp and I feel everything would more or less be fine.
____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Malron Raerlin
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Posted - 2009.09.22 13:49:00 -
[694]
Why ohh why ohh why cant you guys stop messing about with eve!
I spend ages learning the skills so my passive cnr will easily solo run lvl4 missions. Now you have given me totally un needed bonus's and totally destroyed my shield recharge time!?
So seriously why?
I cant be the only one gettig ****ed off after spending time learning a skill plan, only for ccp to keep changing the rules!?
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.22 13:52:00 -
[695]
Cry more, passive failRavens.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.09.22 14:07:00 -
[696]
Anyone know if the CN Scorp got increased fitting to go along with its increased launcher?
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.22 14:24:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Anyone know if the CN Scorp got increased fitting to go along with its increased launcher?
I certainly hope so. It was too tight before! I really want enough PG on this thing to fit an active tank. The way CCP pressures caldari pilots into passive shield tanking by not giving them enough PG irks me. ><
Also, I don't mind the paintjobs on the dominix and megathron - at least it's sharp, unlike the navy scorp, which is rather mdudy. Many navy a ship has 'camo'. It's not to hide in the bushes, anymore than the 'camo' used on navy ships in WWI/II was. It's to break up the profile of ships, make it harder to distinguish one ship from another, and make it harder to tell which way a ship is facing.
The gallente pattern actually makes more sense than most. Green and black makes perfect sense for blending into the background of that huge planet you're going to be fighting next to when 514 comes out.
And everyone always wants their ship to be shiny black. It's the most boring hull color choice imaginable.
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AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.22 15:35:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Gypsio III Cry more, passive failRavens.
i would like to hope thats sarcasm but seriously. You would have to be stupid to not realize the quality of a t2 rigged cnr atm. It totally has a time and place for plausible and effective use. Yea its total fail for your Raven to keep soaking up rediculous damage when totally cap drained and still be shelling out heavy damage.
There are only 2 downsides to this fit: Expensive Large Sig...but your a bs already
As unhappy as I am with losing this fit ive been using for a year and a half i know nobody cares including the devs so i would politely request my billion+ rigs be removed and repacked for me. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.22 16:15:00 -
[699]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Gypsio III Cry more, passive failRavens.
i would like to hope thats sarcasm but seriously. You would have to be stupid to not realize the quality of a t2 rigged cnr atm. It totally has a time and place for plausible and effective use. Yea its total fail for your Raven to keep soaking up rediculous damage when totally cap drained and still be shelling out heavy damage.
There are only 2 downsides to this fit: Expensive Large Sig...but your a bs already
"When totally cap drained"? You mean to tank L5s with their neut towers? You don't need a CNR for that - as you recognise.
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Wacktopia
Infinity Miners Union Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2009.09.22 16:22:00 -
[700]
Swoooooon, Navy Domi <3 <3 <3
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Cornette
Gallente Black Screen of Death Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.22 22:57:00 -
[701]
Been playing around with my hangar trofeT, fleet tempest, a bit and I feel I must say this:
The fleet tempest doesn't benefit from gaining a seventh gun and losing a mid, the dps increase is laughable and all this do is removing 'versatility' from it. More velocity fine. More agility fine. Even a bit more drone bay.. it could had been more, like the new mach.
I know ccp claimed 'versatility' so they wouldn't have to fix anything broken. Now the ship ain't broken, the guns are. Which we had countless pages about in ships and modules and assembly hall. Yet the dead horse can't be flogged enough with this or they will never come around to fix it.
I don't hope they will fix anything in time for dominion. In fact I don't even think they will ever fix it until they hire some new devs who do play eve as minmatar and have something to say about it.
I just hope they don't nerf the poor ship further and have the nerve to call it 'boosted'.
And one more thing, until now I always thought the greenbrown color on the ship was because the ship was made of parts from something that had suffered a freak accident. Now I see its actually cameo. Its buttugly but I guess its fitting with its scrapyard look.
Still cameo is a big yuck on spaceships and I hope we don't see any more of it.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Smegnet Incorporated Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.09.23 00:24:00 -
[702]
@ all picture color complaints: (This is only to address the visuals of ships, not the balancing)
Amarrian Ship changes: Now fits with SEEN Navies in-game. Also fits in with the Omen Navy Issue. Besides, I hated the Green Banana anyway....yes, its good looking.
Gallente Ship Changes: Anyone remember Day of Darkness 2 Video? Take a look at the Domis. Paintjob is the same in the video as it will be now in-game. Its actually very cool. Better than the Sin paintjob anyway.....I think they both look great and its nice to see some variety. Besides, would you rather have pink ships? (A certain cruiser of yours....*cough*) Although I agree that the black designed Mega was cool, it really doesn't fit in with the game in terms of RP elements. (Yeah, I said RP, I'll probably get flamed now)
Caldari Ship Changes: Well, this is nothing really new, the SNI looks like the CNR. Never really liked it that much, but I'm not Caldari now am I?
Minmatar Ship Changes: Um....haven't seen it. Sorry. Will edit later.
Great job overall CCP. Now the ships fit in better and don't have weird bananas or w/e now.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.23 03:43:00 -
[703]
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Gypsio III Cry more, passive failRavens.
i would like to hope thats sarcasm but seriously. You would have to be stupid to not realize the quality of a t2 rigged cnr atm. It totally has a time and place for plausible and effective use. Yea its total fail for your Raven to keep soaking up rediculous damage when totally cap drained and still be shelling out heavy damage.
There are only 2 downsides to this fit: Expensive Large Sig...but your a bs already
As unhappy as I am with losing this fit ive been using for a year and a half i know nobody cares including the devs so i would politely request my billion+ rigs be removed and repacked for me.
and that time and place is in the reprocesser.
although for shiggles let me eft that, yea okay, it has a decent tank, but wastes so many slots I can only have 1 logical reaction, see the reprocess bit above. You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.23 03:55:00 -
[704]
Fleet tempest. I like the fact that it gets another turret slot, but i dont get why you feel the need to remove one mid to give us that turret point. Please give us back that midslot or move it to a low slot so it can have a okish armor tank while being able to put out some dps at least
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Petition This
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Posted - 2009.09.23 04:25:00 -
[705]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 23/09/2009 04:26:32
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker it really doesn't fit in with the game in terms of RP elements. (Yeah, I said RP, I'll probably get flamed now)
You really shouldn't bring up "RP" when discussing jungle camo painted spaceships.
Keep the black mega, leave the rest camo. I think that's a fair trade. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.09.23 13:50:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Ulstan
I certainly hope so. It was too tight before! I really want enough PG on this thing to fit an active tank.
PG doesn't seem too bad to me. CPU is a bit tight for 6 launchers though =/. But an increase to both would allow a bit more flexibility and maybe the ability to actually use that utility high.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.23 16:38:00 -
[707]
Hm. I had some thoughts about the fleet pest.
First of all, as my PvP BS, I pretty much exclusively fly Tempests. RR short-range BS, non-RR short-range BS, sniper. I love it. The extra slots - 2 utility highs, 1-3 utility mids - really give it a tremendous amount of options. The ship is fine as it is (ACs/arties aren't, but Nozh is fixing that - thanks!).
Now, looking at the other navy ships, all the changes add something that the base hull lacks. The prime example is the navy geddon: The main disadvantage of the base hull is the lack of mids. It's highly annoying. So, the navy version adds that, making the ship really, really strong.
Adding a turret slot does not add anything to the Tempest - quite to the contrary, it takes something away, which is actually one of the strengths of the hull: Versatility.
The thing that I constantly lack in my Tempests, though, is a low slot. With 6 lows, you have to decide between ok dps (only 1 plate or no EANM), or ok tank (only 2 gyros). If you add a 7th low, you can have both - this would add a lot to the Tempest, and make the FPest a really strong ship.
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.23 17:21:00 -
[708]
PLEASE reconsider the woodland cammo for gallente and minmatar. it is pure ugliness. ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.23 18:41:00 -
[709]
Edited by: Ulstan on 23/09/2009 18:41:07
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: Ulstan
I certainly hope so. It was too tight before! I really want enough PG on this thing to fit an active tank.
PG doesn't seem too bad to me. CPU is a bit tight for 6 launchers though =/. But an increase to both would allow a bit more flexibility and maybe the ability to actually use that utility high.
Scorpion fittings: Fittings: 787 CPU, 10350 powergrid, 350 calibration, 3 rig slots
With electronics V and Engineering V, that's 12937.5 powergrid and 983.75 CPU.
Now, suppose we want to fit six siege II launchers and a 100mn MWD (tech 1, not 2. Tech II might be nicer but we can't fit everything with tech II because of fitting concerns). That's 11175 powergrid and 471 CPU, at all level V.
So we have a grand total of 1762 powergrid to fill one hi slot, 8 medium slots, and 4 low slots.
The 4 low slots are no problem: 3x BCS and a damage control. That much is obvious. That takes 150 CPU and 4 more PG. We're up to 621 CPU used and 11129 PG used.
Now, what can we fit in terms of tank? An XL SB II is 230 CPU and 550 PG. That brings us up to 851 CPU used and 11729 PG used.
Can we fit a heavy cap booster to run that tank? Nope, that would be 1750 more PG and we don't have that much left.
So let's forget the XLSB and let's try just a LSB II. That takes 115 CPU and 165 PG.
We've got 6 medium slots left. We'll put a warp disruptor II in one, and a PWNAGE in the other (not putting in tech II for fitting concerns). That takes an additional 60 CPU and 2 PG spent.
With 4 med slots left, and one hi slot left, we have used 796 CPU and 11346 PG used. We have 187 CPU left and 1591 PG left. Still can't use a heavy capacitor booster, so let's look at shield mods: hardeners, invulns, LSE's, shield boost amplifiers. There are a variety of configurations you can choose: fortunately they are all pretty light on the PG, but they take 40-50 CPU. We can use named or tech 1 where needed to come in under 187 CPU.
Now, let's consider our utility hi slot. Can we fit a tech II heavy neut there? Nope, that takes 2250 PG. Can we fit a tech I heavy neut there? Nope, that takes 2000 PG. Can we fit a large shield transporter? Nope, that takes 140 CPU, and we don't have any CPU left. How about a large smartbomb? That takes 1100 PG, which would fit, but it also takes 80 CPU, and we don't have that much left.
To fit the smartbomb, you'd have to drop the LSB and replace it with a less CPU intensive passive shield mod, like an LSE.
Basically, the scorpion doesn't have the fittings to make use of its utility high when running an active tank, even when not using an XL shield booster.
The navy scorpion needs more fittings. About 40 more CPU and 500 PG would let it actually use its utility high, I think. Or if you left the utility high empty you could upgrade to an XLSB. If the navy scorpion, with it's 8 medium slots, can't mount an XL active tank, then there is something wrong, I think. It needs enough PG for this to be possible and not have to yet another passive shield tanked caldari ship.
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FoxNews FairAndBalanced
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Posted - 2009.09.23 19:39:00 -
[710]
The proposed Navy Scorpion changes are absolutely redonkulous. I haven't read through the entire thread but I can say the community I hang around, including myself, consider the changes and the ship pretty worthless; please make the necessary changes to buff the stats and utility so it can be up to par with the other Navy ships, or make the LP cost about 70% less than the others, because that's how much it's worth.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.23 21:55:00 -
[711]
Originally by: Ulstan post
This is why (among other reasons) all my Caldari ships buffer tank. Not enough CPU to actually fit a T2 shield tank (no caldari ship has it without gimping the setup). Not enough PG to fit mods needed for the tank to run, and more importently prop mods.
Same with my old CNR, 7 Siege II and an MWD (you are using close range weapons, you need MWD) leave only room for buffer and some lol mod for the last hihg slot. And this is when I am using a fitting RCU!
No room for any real utility like a heavy neut or SB, you might pull off a medium neut, but then you are lucky.
New CNR has it better! But not enough to fit an active tank or a heavy neut. It only makes one low slot free form the fitting mod for a regular buffer fit.
Imo, Raven hulls needs a lot moe pg, as do navy Scorp.
So do Hawk, NH, Worm, Hookbill (and imo Kesterl), Drake kinda (only a few slight % would nudge it in the right direction to not demanding a fitting implant for a HAM setup).
But its a matter of understanding that missiles also uses lots of cpu and grind, more tehn the turret ships, and teh turret ships gets bonuses for it! Take Rokh, an excelent ship, balanced grid and cpu imo. Ravne? Buffer fir siege II ift is the only viable one unless you want to loost the ship to anything that can move. This is not fun really.
And further, lets talk about T2 shield mods!
They have outrageous cpu use, just look at teh XL booster. 230 T2 ves 170 T1. 60 cpu is no small number! And then you got boost amps, hardeners.
Tho to be fair, some of the newer ships are better this way, but the old workhorses needs new legs. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
hauntingappiriton
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Posted - 2009.09.24 02:03:00 -
[712]
Ok so ill keep this short . You all agree that the cnr needs a shield nerf? I think with the bad press that older toon give caldari maybe it need a buff. You already smacked missiles. so maybe for you guys who say caldari sucks and always complain about evrething let's nerf the amarr ships since they can murder ravens any way and let's get those pesky mimitar hacs and oh let's nerf gun cause we got to admit evrey one hates missiles and way to many pvpers use guns. So quit complaing about mission ships and ravens in space your not flying it and I can quit thinking this game sucks after 4 years of playing!
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EdgeStormer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.24 03:26:00 -
[713]
I think that the Navy Megathron skin should be changed back to the way it was before, way sexier that way. The only success lies in failing. |
AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.24 04:37:00 -
[714]
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
Originally by: AccesiViale
Originally by: Gypsio III Cry more, passive failRavens.
i would like to hope thats sarcasm but seriously. You would have to be stupid to not realize the quality of a t2 rigged cnr atm. It totally has a time and place for plausible and effective use. Yea its total fail for your Raven to keep soaking up rediculous damage when totally cap drained and still be shelling out heavy damage.
There are only 2 downsides to this fit: Expensive Large Sig...but your a bs already
As unhappy as I am with losing this fit ive been using for a year and a half i know nobody cares including the devs so i would politely request my billion+ rigs be removed and repacked for me.
and that time and place is in the reprocesser.
although for shiggles let me eft that, yea okay, it has a decent tank, but wastes so many slots I can only have 1 logical reaction, see the reprocess bit above.
Ok well if the fit is so terrible then the recharge times should be left alone as there is no reason to stop me from using it. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
manpos
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Posted - 2009.09.24 05:42:00 -
[715]
350 calibration, 3 rig slots on the navy scorpion what a joke you add a rig and lower the calibration, it was too low b4 the eccm strength rig uses 200 and the range rig 100 what we ment to do with the last 50, and ok you made the recharge time on sheilds longer on all bs, but on a shield tank ship that is alrdy no match for an armour tank dont you think that is abit mad, or are you trying to do away with a race or 2 by makeing it in poss for abody too want to fly them. so all in all the new navy scorpion is messed up in 2 ways less cali and even less sheild tank to go with the less range of the eccm.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.24 07:41:00 -
[716]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Now, looking at the other navy ships, all the changes add something that the base hull lacks. The prime example is the navy geddon: The main disadvantage of the base hull is the lack of mids. It's highly annoying. So, the navy version adds that, making the ship really, really strong.
Lack of mids is one of the regular Geddon's weaknesses, yes. The other one is that it is very short on CPU. The Navy version has +72 base CPU (+90 at Elec V) compared to the regular one, pretty much indeed fixing all of the hull's problems.
(It might actually be a good idea to give Navy Geddon the one additional turret slot instead of the mid, giving it huge DPS but leaving it with at least _some_ weaknesses, but I digress.)
Quote: Adding a turret slot does not add anything to the Tempest - quite to the contrary, it takes something away, which is actually one of the strengths of the hull: Versatility.
This, this and this. I've come to respect the Tempest in small fleets due to it being able to RR/neut very well, having some midslot trickery available plus having at least some damage output in a hull that can be RR'd reasonably effectively. With seven guns it would still fall very far from Geddon/Raven/Abaddon as an effective damage dealer but it'd also be a non-exceptional ship in other ways.
(Given that at a hair over 15km, a max-skilled torp launcher without damage mods does about equal damage to a BS as a 800mm AC with Barrage and 2*damage mods, the _regular_ Tempest can have almost as good damage output as the suggested Fleet one. I'd say that the damage increase is nothing too special anyway...) -- Gradient forum |
Jensen Blayloc
Minmatar Maelstrom Crew
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Posted - 2009.09.24 16:31:00 -
[717]
Although it has been said many times, it bears repeating, apparently, because nothing is being done.
Minmatar ships in general and Battleships specifically are across the board worse than the other races ships of the same class. The fact that it is believed that adding 1 turret slot but not a high slot, while removing a mid slot is evidence that CCP simply doesn't understand that there is a problem at all, much less what the problem is. They are not as good in PVE, they are not as good in PVP. Choose a role, and they are at best, middle of the road at it. They lack powergrid and cap, or they lack both damage and tank, or they lack targeting and EW, or they lack in drone bonuses and they lack focus of any kind; while being "versatile" they can do nothing that another ship can not do better. Versatility in EVE is not a benefit, because I can bring a ship to fill the role (whatever role you choose) that is more proficient at it instead. Since the ship must be fit out for a role, it isn't like that versatility allows you to leave the station and fill multiple roles.
There primary weapons are inferior to the other races primary weapons, both in DPS and range. The change was made to remove Alpha Strike as a factor, and that was the only are that Projectiles excelled. With hit points as they are, sustained DPS is all that matters. The ammo load in Arty is a JOKE, The tracking is horrendous, and the other stats are all lackluster. So you give us another turret.. Yeah. Will that turret make up the DPS difference? No. Even if it did, the loss of the mid slot overall make the thing worse. I am glad this is not a roleplaying game, and that I can fly the other races ships, because my races ships are not good, which kinda sucks.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:26:00 -
[718]
Originally by: Jensen Blayloc Although it has been said many times, it bears repeating, apparently, because nothing is being done.
Minmatar ships in general and Battleships specifically are across the board worse than the other races ships of the same class.
This is utter nonsense. Battleships are almost the only class where Minmatar shisp are not, in general, better than the ships of other races.
Rifter is the best frigate. Thrasher is the best destroyer. Sabre is the only dictor worth flying. Jaguar is tied for best AF with ishkur. Stilleto and Claw are both good interceptors, certainly better than the fail caldari interceptors. Rupture is tied for best Cruiser with Thorax Hurricane is excellent battlecuiser. Even cylone isn't bad (better than prophecy or ferox) Rapier is excellent. Huginn is excellent. Sleipner is excellent. Munnin is quite decent, only really beaten out by the zealot for LR HAC work. Vagabond used to be the best HAC by far, now its merely a 'good' HAC. Scimitar is probably the most hard to kill logistics, and the best shield logistics.
It's BS sized Minmatar ships that have issues, not all Minmatar ships. Smaller minmatar ships are absolutely superb and some of the best around.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Smegnet Incorporated Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.09.24 18:38:00 -
[719]
Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: Jensen Blayloc Although it has been said many times, it bears repeating, apparently, because nothing is being done.
Minmatar ships in general and Battleships specifically are across the board worse than the other races ships of the same class.
This is utter nonsense. Battleships are almost the only class where Minmatar shisp are not, in general, better than the ships of other races.
Rifter is the best frigate. Thrasher is the best destroyer. Sabre is the only dictor worth flying. Jaguar is tied for best AF with ishkur. Stilleto and Claw are both good interceptors, certainly better than the fail caldari interceptors. Rupture is tied for best Cruiser with Thorax Hurricane is excellent battlecuiser. Even cylone isn't bad (better than prophecy or ferox) Rapier is excellent. Huginn is excellent. Sleipner is excellent. Munnin is quite decent, only really beaten out by the zealot for LR HAC work. Vagabond used to be the best HAC by far, now its merely a 'good' HAC. Scimitar is probably the most hard to kill logistics, and the best shield logistics.
It's BS sized Minmatar ships that have issues, not all Minmatar ships. Smaller minmatar ships are absolutely superb and some of the best around.
I agree with this except the Vagabond. That thing is annoyingly hard to kill so thus its not a "good" hac, its a "very good hac". :P
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.24 19:34:00 -
[720]
Originally by: Ulstan This is utter nonsense. Battleships are almost the only class where Minmatar shisp are not, in general, better than the ships of other races.
Quite, sort the BS line and they will have a truly strong line-up. With projectiles being looked at with focus on sniping and large guns the boost may be closer than we think.
Should be said that Jensen after making that erroneous blanket statement did go on to point out the issues with the BS class, so I wonder if he didn't make it to make sure the point got across.
Sub-BS Minmatar ships are probably the best around when taken as a whole, a few ties with other ships (Cane - Binger) but otherwise rather dominant in small scale (1-5) PvP.
And the Rupture - Thorax is a no contest. Rax will be neuted to hell and back and if it has a booster (ie. no web) it gets kited from 8km. Rupture is extremely good, by far the strongest non-faction T1 cruiser.
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Taritura
Caldari Achozen Dueces TecH
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Posted - 2009.09.24 20:07:00 -
[721]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
Created a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away when they were at the top of the food chain with no capital or T2 hulls to compete with, navy tier 2 battleships actually receive little and disparate boost to their intended role(s). The following changes are aimed to fix this.
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
Apocalypse Navy Issue:
òFittings: 580 CPU, 21525 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
Raven Navy Issue:
òFittings: 735 CPU, 10925 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
yeee 150% shield recharge time on cnr ?!!!! are you insane?? yeee +25 m3 on drone bay Usles witchout higher bandwich... ... You sould call this expansio Dominion - the big caldari nerf... What next all caldari ships will have shield capacity lower to 50% ???
And that text "receive little and disparate boost to their intended role(s)" Is +50% to shield recharge time is a boost to their roles ??? Are you trying to make full out of us ???
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.24 21:27:00 -
[722]
Edited by: Orakkus on 24/09/2009 21:30:22
Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: Jensen Blayloc Although it has been said many times, it bears repeating, apparently, because nothing is being done.
Minmatar ships in general and Battleships specifically are across the board worse than the other races ships of the same class.
This is utter nonsense. Battleships are almost the only class where Minmatar shisp are not, in general, better than the ships of other races.
Rifter is the best frigate. Thrasher is the best destroyer. Sabre is the only dictor worth flying. Jaguar is tied for best AF with ishkur. Stilleto and Claw are both good interceptors, certainly better than the fail caldari interceptors. Rupture is tied for best Cruiser with Thorax Hurricane is excellent battlecuiser. Even cylone isn't bad (better than prophecy or ferox) Rapier is excellent. Huginn is excellent. Sleipner is excellent. Munnin is quite decent, only really beaten out by the zealot for LR HAC work. Vagabond used to be the best HAC by far, now its merely a 'good' HAC. Scimitar is probably the most hard to kill logistics, and the best shield logistics.
It's BS sized Minmatar ships that have issues, not all Minmatar ships. Smaller minmatar ships are absolutely superb and some of the best around.
As a minnie pilot I would have to disagree with most of your choices, but I agree with a few. I agree regarding the Rupture, the Sleipner, the Jaguar/Wolf, and the Scimitar (though the Caldari Logistics is better for just straight shield logistics). However, the rest have recently been supplanted by their Amarr or Gallente counterparts or are currently well balanced with all the other races versions (i.e. the Tier 2 Battlecruisers, Field Commandships, T1 Cruisers overall).
Some, like the Muninn, the Rapier, and the Huginn, are clearly at bottom of the list. With the web nerf the Rapier and the Huginn are the least preferred Recons in a fleet as their web bonuses aren't effective any more (not even able to stop a MWDing Cruiser), and their TP bonuses can be duplicated on the Bellicose hull. The Muninn suffers from the falloff issue just like the Battleships do as most of its range is in falloff and so damage is much worse.
Overall, maybe I'd say we're equal other races pre-BS, but the value of Minmatar sig/speed decreases the higher the ship class becomes, with the breaking line around the Cruiser classes. After that the flaws of the projectile ammo/weapon systems become more apparently and more difficult to tactically account for.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.25 06:08:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Taritura
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
Created a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away when they were at the top of the food chain with no capital or T2 hulls to compete with, navy tier 2 battleships actually receive little and disparate boost to their intended role(s). The following changes are aimed to fix this.
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
Apocalypse Navy Issue:
òFittings: 580 CPU, 21525 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
Raven Navy Issue:
òFittings: 735 CPU, 10925 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
yeee 150% shield recharge time on cnr ?!!!! are you insane?? yeee +25 m3 on drone bay Usles witchout higher bandwich... ... You sould call this expansio Dominion - the big caldari nerf... What next all caldari ships will have shield capacity lower to 50% ???
And that text "receive little and disparate boost to their intended role(s)" Is +50% to shield recharge time is a boost to their roles ??? Are you trying to make full out of us ???
yay I fit a shield booster! passive recharge barely adds any effective tank.
an extra flight of lights (or +2 mediums +1 light, or even 3 if all you have are meds), how is that a nerf?
or are you one of those passive cnr folks we were talking about earlier You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Octavio Santillian
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.09.25 07:42:00 -
[724]
It is difficult to see, even with the hope of projectile balancing, how adding a turret and removing a mid slot improves the Tempest Fleet Issue in any way. Seriously, the joke isnÆt funny anymore. The Minmatar have always had ships that outperform their æpaper stats,Æ but the Tempest Fleet Issue hasnÆt been one of them for a long time. The utility mids are the only thing that currently give this ship any value or distinctiveness whatsoever, and even with them, the ship is still lackluster.
If the intention is to buff the ship, I donÆt see how the rational of trading a mid slot for a turret hard point achieves this goal on the AC front. ItÆs hard to judge this if AC numbers are going to change dramatically, but letÆs look at it currently. Assuming a three gyro setup, a TFI with seven 800s (Barrage) does a mere 37 more DPS than a TFI with six 800s and a Siege II (Caldari Navy). 37 DPS is a horrible, HORRIBLE, trade for a mid slot. Any change to ACs is going to have to be quite dramatic to change the basic fact that Siege launcher provides enough æbridgeÆ damage to make the loss of a mid a very, very bad trade.
The change does make more sense if the intention is to make the ship a sniper. With a hefty boost in artillery alpha and an extra turret, the TFI could kick like a mule. Is this a practical niche for the ship? Range and tracking will still be issues, and massive alpha will still have relatively few useful places when compared to overall DPS. Yes, you might make the life of a T1 cruiser hell every once in a while or do some potent gang fly-by sniping runs, but is that really the goal here?
If the intention isnÆt to buff the ship, then please explain why CCP thinks the ship is well balanced to its counterparts as is (or as will be).
The ship could probably use the extra hard-point and keep the mid. If you thatÆs too much, then please consider some other options.
Just an asideàcan the ship be less god-awful ugly? 1) If you are going to camouflage a space ship, it should be black with stars on it or something of the like. 2) The turret hard points are all asymmetrical and catawampus. 3) The æsailsÆ are disgusting when compared to the standard Tempest sails.
I know people joke around like the Matari are stupid or primitive, but their back-story doesnÆt really justify this. I could of course care less, if the ship was actually decent when compared its counterparts.
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AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.25 09:48:00 -
[725]
yea I still dont get it. There is 0 reason to increase the Shield recharge rate if its such a terrible idea to fit like that.
Asside from all of those who simply dont like our passive cnr fits or think they are dumb...can you see a good reason to remove this option other then...just because? I don't think the passive recharge rates of these navy BS(s) was ruining the balance of this game.
Who here has been ganked by an omfg wtf passive fit Navy bs? Wait nobody? ok why are we balancing(nerfing) something that supposedly isnt great? The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.25 12:42:00 -
[726]
well faction versions do come with more HP, which does require a higher recharge time. just because they had the same as regular bs up until today doesnt make it ipso facto right.
however, this is indeed quite a high number. i can't say i'm a fan of this tanking method, hence i'm not too experienced but i believe 2 extenders usually come with such a fitting? that results in ~30% more HP on the gravy raven compared to its baby sister. i'd derive a recharge rate in the area of 3250s - putting the gist back into logistics |
IGuardian
Internet Guardians Corp Internet Guardians
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Posted - 2009.09.25 12:53:00 -
[727]
Please do not remove the mid slot from the Tempest Fleet Issue, if you do get rid of it are we allowed to swap it for another ship or something... it will be useless to me. Also if you loose the mid slot, im sure a lot of people that use it with shield tanking skills will have to sell it or retrain for armor tanking. Internet Guardians Leader
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.09.25 15:00:00 -
[728]
Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
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Octavio Santillian
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.09.25 15:01:00 -
[729]
Edited by: Octavio Santillian on 25/09/2009 15:06:10 Edited by: Octavio Santillian on 25/09/2009 15:03:51
EDIT:
I cross posted with Ytterbium. Let me digest the new info, but looks good at first glance. Thanks for listening.
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Zief
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Posted - 2009.09.25 15:36:00 -
[730]
A strange thing happened to me when I read Ytterbium's latest post. Suddenly I began to hear Rufus Wainwright's "Halleluja".. Tears poured down my face and a piercing ray of heavenly light flashed down on my tortured being. Then I realized that I had left iTunes playing and my cat had just knocked down a lamp which was shining in my eyes.
Everything else aside I am pleased with this latest revelation. Giving the standard 'Phoon a 5/5 split for it's highslots will make some new fits turn up on battle clinic to be sure. It'll be even rougher trying to squeeze on more of those grid heavy siege launchers, but I'm not complaining even in the slightest. It'll become even more of a cheap, plated, cap independent, WTF Gank-mobile now. I like it. Also bravo to the Fleet Typhoon, this is now a ship I would REALLY like to own some day.
I don't really get the swap on the stats for the vanilla tempest. If someone could 'school' me I'd be grateful. I don't really see how it'll effect much of anything.
Now. On to the important bit. The Fleet Tempest. THIS will now be a bad*** ship. When the turret balance happens it'll be even better. The low slots to mount an actual armor tank and utilities. Bravo Bravo. Thumbs up.
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.25 15:43:00 -
[731]
Originally by: Zief A strange thing happened to me when I read Ytterbium's latest post. Suddenly I began to hear Rufus Wainwright's "Halleluja".. Tears poured down my face and a piercing ray of heavenly light flashed down on my tortured being. Then I realized that I had left iTunes playing and my cat had just knocked down a lamp which was shining in my eyes.
Everything else aside I am pleased with this latest revelation. Giving the standard 'Phoon a 5/5 split for it's highslots will make some new fits turn up on battle clinic to be sure. It'll be even rougher trying to squeeze on more of those grid heavy siege launchers, but I'm not complaining even in the slightest. It'll become even more of a cheap, plated, cap independent, WTF Gank-mobile now. I like it. Also bravo to the Fleet Typhoon, this is now a ship I would REALLY like to own some day.
I don't really get the swap on the stats for the vanilla tempest. If someone could 'school' me I'd be grateful. I don't really see how it'll effect much of anything.
Now. On to the important bit. The Fleet Tempest. THIS will now be a bad*** ship. When the turret balance happens it'll be even better. The low slots to mount an actual armor tank and utilities. Bravo Bravo. Thumbs up.
This.
Original Tempest was meant to be an Active Shield tanker back in the day, hence the higher shields.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Constantine Merlonne
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Posted - 2009.09.25 15:48:00 -
[732]
Roleplay speaking, did someone got the explaination to the change of the name of the slicer to "Imperial"? Then why the other frigs are not turned into "State issue", "Tribal Issue" and "Federal Issue" (if i remember well the designations)?
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Lumy
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:00:00 -
[733]
Originally by: Constantine Merlonne Roleplay speaking, did someone got the explaination to the change of the name of the slicer to "Imperial"? Then why the other frigs are not turned into "State issue", "Tribal Issue" and "Federal Issue" (if i remember well the designations)?
Imperial, Federate, State and Tribal issue ships are/were unique ships given as prizes at alliance tournaments. I guess that is what CCP wants to keep the names for.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Urhgo Khanab
Minmatar Rogen's Heroes
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:00:00 -
[734]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
This is so awesome. I think i need a towel
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:03:00 -
[735]
I'm not sure how swapping the shield/armour values around solves the niche issue of the tempest, nor the fleet tempest for that matter.
Have you considered that there might be too many armour tanking ships trying to do the same thing in the same fashion? Until this issue is addressed, you'll either not fix the Tempest, or displace the problem onto another ship. People are keen on 7/6/6, 8/7/4 slot layout wise.
As for the Typhoon and fleet versions, thanks for listening, those ships are practically perfect. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:11:00 -
[736]
Edited by: Ulstan on 25/09/2009 16:11:56
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
Excellent changes, except I'd still rather see the tempest shield tanked :p We have more than enough armor tanking gunboats.
But 5/5 Typhoon is excellent, as is the fleet phoon.
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:15:00 -
[737]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 25/09/2009 16:15:41 Make Zuluparks Tempest less fail TBH. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Constantine Merlonne
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:19:00 -
[738]
Originally by: Lumy
Originally by: Constantine Merlonne Roleplay speaking, did someone got the explaination to the change of the name of the slicer to "Imperial"? Then why the other frigs are not turned into "State issue", "Tribal Issue" and "Federal Issue" (if i remember well the designations)?
Imperial, Federate, State and Tribal issue ships are/were unique ships given as prizes at alliance tournaments. I guess that is what CCP wants to keep the names for.
But the Imperial Navy Slicer will be far from being a unique ship The current designation is "Amarr Navy Slicer" and will turn to "Imperial Navy Slicer". And i find it strange. I know it's not a big deal but i think CCP has a reason.
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To mare
Amarr Advanced Technology
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:20:00 -
[739]
give to the typhoon a little bit of CPU while you are changing it. it will be very difficult to fit 5 siege on it.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:24:00 -
[740]
True. Navy scorp has the same issue. Siege launchers are very hungry O.O
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:44:00 -
[741]
I don't know that this will "fix" the Tempest itself, but the projectile changes in the other thread might. I 110% support the Phoon/Fleet Phoon changes. Wish the Fleet Pest was a shield tanker, but this will work fine. :)
Thanks for listening!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:52:00 -
[742]
Originally by: Ulstan Excellent changes, except I'd still rather see the tempest shield tanked :p We have more than enough armor tanking gunboats.
Even if the Tempest was intended to be a shield-tanker, everyone would still have to armour tank it, thanks to the absurdly imbalanced, diversity-destroying fitting requirements of remote armour reps and shield transporters... *SUBTLE HINT CCP, A LARGE SHIELD TRANSPORTER ON A MEGATHRON SHOULD NOT REQUIRE OVER 20% OF ITS CPU...*
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:03:00 -
[743]
Originally by: To mare give to the typhoon a little bit of CPU while you are changing it. it will be very difficult to fit 5 siege on it.
I think the fitting conundrums will be what keeps the ship in line after that change. Players who are best able to work within the constraints will be the most successful with it.
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Arele
Minmatar The Hull Miners Union
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:06:00 -
[744]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Hopefully CPU reqs of Seige II could be looked at in the future, but this change is huge.
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Lumy
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:08:00 -
[745]
How about trying a Fleet Tempest with 7 guns, but 8/6/5 or 8/7/4 layout? I'm assuming you consider 20 total slots with 7 guns crime against humanity or something (so no 8/6/6 or 8/7/5). In short, it shouldn't be just Machariel for financially impaired. It could be (full gank and full shield tank) vs (full armor tank or full gank with some utility mids).
In current iteration, Machariel is better/or equal in almost every way: lower mass, more guns, faster (~20%), more agile, more CPU, more powergrid, bigger drone bay, higher bandwidth, more capacitor, higher scan resolution (50%) ... and don't forget 10% fallof er level AND one more gun.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Kaito Haakkainen
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:08:00 -
[746]
Excellent news on the Typhoon change, but I must agree with those stating that the Tempest should be designed to shield tank. Fixing shield tanking issues (particularly, but not limited to, poor RR compared to armour tanks) would be a better answer than just making more armour tanking BS. Especially for a race that has a significant number of shield tanking t2 ships and shield transfer based logistics.
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:10:00 -
[747]
k, umm, not sure about the fleet tempest change tbh. imo the fleet tempest is now what the standard tempest should be tbh, is there any reason you cant change the normal tempest to a 8/5/7 and then do the fleet tempest with 8/5/7 or 8/7/5 and 7 turrets?
its a fleet version so it deserves to have a higher dps then the standard one imo, at least on a ship that has so low dps to begin with(in falloff that is)
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Ryas Nia
Minmatar Veto.
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:26:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc I'm not sure how swapping the shield/armour values around solves the niche issue of the tempest, nor the fleet tempest for that matter.
Have you considered that there might be too many armour tanking ships trying to do the same thing in the same fashion? Until this issue is addressed, you'll either not fix the Tempest, or displace the problem onto another ship. People are keen on 7/6/6, 8/7/4 slot layout wise.
As for the Typhoon and fleet versions, thanks for listening, those ships are practically perfect.
Agreeing with this, while your changes are adressing SOME of the long standing issues with the tempest/fleet tempest its still a ship without a roll and flavor. The phoon fix is perfect and i like it. Lets see if we can find something a bit more interesting to do with the tempest now.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:29:00 -
[749]
The amount of Khumaak that's going to be left at your guys' doors will be staggering. Thank you CCP for listening to us rust lovers!
The Phoon will now live up its name in versatility. I think it's going to take more time to tell whether these changes plus the ammo/artillery changes will make the Tempest a desirable ship again. But given what you've done or are planning to do for the rest of our ships, I'm okay with baby steps.
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:40:00 -
[750]
if im not asking to much i would love to read/hear your thoughts on the tempest/fleet tempest and the reason for slot changes, removing of a turret etc etc. i really want to read the pro's and cons for different slot layouts and i'd like to see the numbers on dps with 6 and 7 turrets. and i'd like to see if you have actually compared the ship against ships like the navy mega, cnr etc
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:51:00 -
[751]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
Utterly awesome. I think this should be the end of the "minmatar battleships are subpar" thing... Tempest and Phoon will both kick ass after this.
I'll have to re-evaluate my "why bother training Minnie bs to V?" stance now.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.25 17:54:00 -
[752]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 25/09/2009 17:54:58 Still think the tempest could use some love somewhere, but the rest of the changes are great. Thanks, CCP!
ed: @ Alex: err, the pest hasn't changed nearly at all.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:00:00 -
[753]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 25/09/2009 17:54:58 Still think the tempest could use some love somewhere, but the rest of the changes are great. Thanks, CCP!
ed: @ Alex: err, the pest hasn't changed nearly at all.
Well, true... I was more looking at the Fleet Pest there. The upcoming projectile weapon buffs will hopefully boost the normal Pest to "kick ass" levels, too.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:06:00 -
[754]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Well, true... I was more looking at the Fleet Pest there. The upcoming projectile weapon buffs will hopefully boost the normal Pest to "kick ass" levels, too.
I have my doubts, but it will likely go from LOL --> acceptable. The new geddon? Unlikely.
The new phoon however - oh man. I told myself there was a good reason to train torps up, and I was right.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:11:00 -
[755]
wait what..? 5/5 phoonFI _and_ 8 lows?
just checking... it is the right thing to do but.... who are you and what have you done to ytterbium?! - putting the gist back into logistics |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:15:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Well, true... I was more looking at the Fleet Pest there. The upcoming projectile weapon buffs will hopefully boost the normal Pest to "kick ass" levels, too.
Not to poop on the AWESOME list of changes CCP Ytterbium has above, but the strength of Minny BSs relative to each other stays the same with any projectile fix. So the base tempest would still be subpar compared to the others.
But!! It could probably be useful with all the changes, and may be fielded more often than it is currently simply because it's cheaper than the Maelstrom, and could snipe almost as well.
Ideally, I would have liked to see the Fleet Pest as an 8/6/6 layout, with 7/0 turrets/launchers. But given all the other awesome things in the hopper, if that's asking for too much, I can live with what's coming.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:15:00 -
[757]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 25/09/2009 18:23:54 Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 25/09/2009 18:18:58
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Well, true... I was more looking at the Fleet Pest there. The upcoming projectile weapon buffs will hopefully boost the normal Pest to "kick ass" levels, too.
I have my doubts, but it will likely go from LOL --> acceptable.
Well, the Pest is far from LOL even now (on Tranq), I've seen what our guys can do with the thing, it's a very good ship for small-gang (RR) lowsec warfare (those utility slots are golden). That said, it needs tons of skills and even with maxed skills it's not really in the "awesome" department. With buffed projectiles, I suspect it will be more or less on par with the other good battleships.
If we want to talk "bad battleships" after this, let's talk Hyperion.
Quote:
The new geddon? Unlikely.
Yeah... the normal Geddon is already an excellent ship, with two weaknesses: lack of mids, and low cpu. The Navy Geddon removes both. It's a slight bit over the top, imho...and I fly Geddons myself.
The Navy Geddon is superior to the Navy Mega in pretty much all departments that matter. Ugh. Part of this has to do with the weak state of hybrids (large blasters have *serious* tracking issues vs their op range), but part is ship itself.
Oh well. If the Navy Geddon goes through as is, expect sky-high prices on them.
Quote:
The new phoon however - oh man. I told myself there was a good reason to train torps up, and I was right.
Oh yes.
For once a ship with a "versatile" tagline that actually is versatile. It's like Christmas came early.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:40:00 -
[758]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Well, the Pest is far from LOL even now (on Tranq), I've seen what our guys can do with the thing, it's a very good ship for small-gang (RR) lowsec warfare (those utility slots are golden). That said, it needs tons of skills and even with maxed skills it's not really in the "awesome" department. With buffed projectiles, I suspect it will be more or less on par with the other good battleships.
Hmm, I care to disagree. It's not exceptionally good at anything, at all. It works okay as an RR boat, but the phoon is better. The only thing it has a claim to fame for is killing support with dual heavy neuts and ACs. You can make any battleship into a monster fitted and skilled correctly.
Quote: If we want to talk "bad battleships" after this, let's talk Hyperion.
This may be the inner EFT warrior speaking, but I hear the shield buffer/complete gank hyp can be nasty. Also seen some comments that it's better in the "solo" department than the mega. Blasters could use some love, though.
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Haffrage
Verdant Inquiries Asomat Drive Yards
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Posted - 2009.09.25 19:15:00 -
[759]
Right, I'll get straight to the point.
Frankly, I'm a bit unimpressed with the changes to navy ships overall in comparison to the Megathron Navy Issue and the Dominix Navy Issue. In terms of general appeal, both gallente navy ships are at the bottom of the list (with the amarr navy ships once again at the top ). Honestly the gallente navy's overall ship design just isn't up to par, and they seem to both be coming out with an unwarranted and clearly prejudicial gimping.
So, to resolve this issue I've made a few fixes to the ships and think most of the community will agree that these changes are for the best - all in the name of balance of course. With luck the right devs will agree and the changes will make it into the patch! http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/haffrage/navydomiimproved.jpg http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/haffrage/navythronimproved.jpg
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.25 19:58:00 -
[760]
Originally by: Haffrage Right, I'll get straight to the point.
Frankly, I'm a bit unimpressed with the changes to navy ships overall in comparison to the Megathron Navy Issue and the Dominix Navy Issue. In terms of general appeal, both gallente navy ships are at the bottom of the list (with the amarr navy ships once again at the top ). Honestly the gallente navy's overall ship design just isn't up to par, and they seem to both be coming out with an unwarranted and clearly prejudicial gimping.
So, to resolve this issue I've made a few fixes to the ships and think most of the community will agree that these changes are for the best - all in the name of balance of course. With luck the right devs will agree and the changes will make it into the patch! http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/haffrage/navydomiimproved.jpg http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/haffrage/navythronimproved.jpg
FAN****INGTASTIC!!!!
A+++++++
although I think I'd rather have the black paint, black ships is can be smexy! (yes smexy!) You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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hawks slave
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Posted - 2009.09.25 20:53:00 -
[761]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 04/09/2009 22:50:02 calling dibs on
[Armageddon Navy Issue, New Setup 1] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Internal Force Field Array I Reactor Control Unit II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Bouncer II x5 Heavy Armor Maintenance Bot II x2
yes, fits perfectly - try this in EFT in a regular geddon without the sensor booster
it isn't the worst fit ever......nice try though , you're close to winning!
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Dwindlehop
Uninvited Guests Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.09.25 21:53:00 -
[762]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Navy Issue:
We are aware of the current issues this ship has, mainly due to problems with the standard Tempest in the first place. We will discuss this further based on the feedback expressed here. We can't say much more than that unfortunately, since the core problem remains extremely delicate to tackle (and yes we are also aware of the various player threads and discussions that are on-going about the Tempest and projectiles in general).
Ytterbium, it would be great if you, Nozh, or someone could post exactly what CCP thinks the core problem is (much like like Abathur did with his excellent blog on why sov needed to be changed or Nozh did with the first half of his Projectile Balancing post).
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Zief
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Posted - 2009.09.25 22:30:00 -
[763]
One thing DOES come to mind, and I think others have said as much, but I'll say it again. If we are to believe that the Fleet 'Pest is a standard Tempest which has been upgraded and improved by those sneaky Republic Fleet technicians then WHY would it go from being a shield tank to an armor? There are indeed already many nice armor battle ships out there so keeping the RF Tempest a shield ship might be nice. Would 7 mids be too much though? Only other dps gunboat that has 7 mids is the Nightmare and it's a monster death brawler, perhaps CCP doesn't want a modest fleet ship to posses that kind of capability?
I'll be happy either way the ship goes, as long as IF it's an armor ship it has at least 7 lows, OR the 6/6 layout it sported previously. Still thumbs up, just pondering.
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Gordon Red
SteelVipers Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.09.25 22:45:00 -
[764]
Splitweapon systems need more love. They are far inferiour as ships that getting two boni to one weapon type.
btw. the fleet scythe has not enough CPU by far
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TheLibrarian
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.09.26 00:16:00 -
[765]
I just want to say thank you Ytterbium for your efforts on balancing.
I love the new typhoon and the new fleet typhoon. I am proud to be a minmatar pilot. I have stuck with my minmatar pilot the entire time and not cross trained and it feels good to know that someone is looking out for us. Yarr! MINMATAR!
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.26 01:50:00 -
[766]
While I love all the effort CCP is making in this expansion and these ships in particular I think think there is still more work to be done.
Honestly, is there any single statistic that the proposed fleet tempest is better at than the macherial? I like the mach and think it is balanced fairly well against the other pirate BS bringing something different to the table, speed and agility. But since it shares the same layout with the fleet pest, while having all stats greater...well the mach flatout performs the new fleet pest.
Perhaps swap the meds and lows on either the pest or mach to offer a bit of variety to the lineups? A shield tanking Mach would even make sense with the Angel lore and LP store. I mean, the rats DO shield tank.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.26 04:20:00 -
[767]
Originally by: Ronin Reborn Blasphemy
Shhhh! Leave the Mach as is. It's going to be a fantastic ship.
In any case, I think I know why CCP is reluctant to give the Fleet Pest 7 turret hardpoints as well as an extra slot, and it has to do with the Navy Issue Raven. The (oddly acronymed) CNR doesn't have any extra slots either, and its still a massively coveted ship.
So I think we'll probably have to learn to live with this new Fleet Pest. It's looking like you'll be able to fit a tank + damage on it at the same time...and I guess that's all we ever wanted for it.
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Yakov Draken
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.09.26 08:01:00 -
[768]
New Typhoon is awesome. Wait and see time on the Tempest.
Thanks for the the Minmatar loving.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.26 08:07:00 -
[769]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/09/2009 08:07:37
Originally by: Yakov Draken New Typhoon is awesome. Wait and see time on the Tempest.
Thanks for the the Minmatar loving.
Yeah, exactly. I think a lot of it will depend where they take projectiles. And, to echo, Thanks for the lurv!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.09.26 09:10:00 -
[770]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I don't know that this will "fix" the Tempest itself, but the projectile changes in the other thread might. I 110% support the Phoon/Fleet Phoon changes. Wish the Fleet Pest was a shield tanker, but this will work fine. :)
Thanks for listening!
-Liang
Projectile changes?
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.26 09:48:00 -
[771]
sticky in the features&ideas corner
probably says a bit about how serious/urgent it is to them - putting the gist back into logistics |
AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:22:00 -
[772]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider well faction versions do come with more HP, which does require a higher recharge time. just because they had the same as regular bs up until today doesnt make it ipso facto right.
however, this is indeed quite a high number. i can't say i'm a fan of this tanking method, hence i'm not too experienced but i believe 2 extenders usually come with such a fitting? that results in ~30% more HP on the gravy raven compared to its baby sister. i'd derive a recharge rate in the area of 3250s
If this is how the devs wanted navy bs to work they should have set it to 3390 when they created them.
Currently the cnr is receiving a nerf to shield roughly 1000pg which I don't need but some other fits might require, 15 extra cpu (man i really needed that), and 25m3 more space in the drone cargo bay but no more bandwidth...
So now instead of carrying 5 mediums and 5 lights you will carry 5 mediums and 10 lights... Nothing really changed here
Adding 15 cpu and 1000pg with a little more drone space suggests ccp has a pretty exact fit and role they intend us to use which i think is bs. Unless they want to make the above changes and leave the versatility of the 2500s recharge rate.
Would anyone be upset if the CNR was left entirely alone for this patch? I think it was fine the way it was. I dont think there have been any posts in the past 26 pages where people saw the cnr changes and replied "well its about time...wow i cant wait to get one of these now that its been fixed and is worth using"
Those of us flying one like it for the way it is...not the way we wished ccp would make it. The other ships needed a boost...give them their boost. Stealth nerfing versatility isnt cool.
The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:26:00 -
[773]
No, that extra CPU and PG is really useful on the CNR, while the change to shield recharge time is utterly inconsequential.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.09.26 12:00:00 -
[774]
Edited by: Linas IV on 26/09/2009 12:03:15
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
Typhoon: Nice Change
Typhoon FI: Nice aswell, awesome Ship
Tempest: ....well.... At least something
Tempest FI: Better than the last Incarnation, but one question remains: What's the point?!?
The 7th Low is an improovement, but now its just a much much weaker Machariel!!! (less agi, less Speed, less HP, Less dronebay and bandwith, Less Falloff, less turrets. wtf!?!?)
Why the heck should anyone fly it?!?
Ideas for a Final fix:
1. Shield Buffered Sniper:
Slot-Layout: 8/6/6 (as on TQ) 7 turrets (maybe even only 7 highs are enough) Stats: 10k Shield HP, 9.3k Armor HP, PG as it is Now on Sisi
2. As it was on Sisi last week (8/5/6 7 turrets) but with A LOT more PG!!! I want to fit a full rack of 1400s and MWD ONCE without an RCU.
=> Fixed Tempest FI
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Schmell
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Posted - 2009.09.26 12:22:00 -
[775]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
<3 CCP
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AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.26 13:05:00 -
[776]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 26/09/2009 13:13:53 Edited by: AccesiViale on 26/09/2009 13:06:03
Originally by: Gypsio III No, that extra CPU and PG is really useful on the CNR, while the change to shield recharge time is utterly inconsequential.
Mind letting me know what you can do with that extra 15 cpu that you couldnt before?
Not exactly inconsequential if you have cnr pilots complaining that it invalidates a fit. And even IF you were right then change is without merit because if nobody will be affected and to fit passive for cnr was dumb then the change should not even have been considered... as it doesnt change anything. Either angle shows this change to be stupid. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Rayokashi
Order of Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.26 14:42:00 -
[777]
Other changes are good and keep the balance in game, but Tempest still needs some serious boost. Even with armor/shield swap it will still be sub par when compared with other battleships.
Eg. - better bonuses per level - extra low slot
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.26 14:47:00 -
[778]
15 CPU would allow me to use a DC II where before I'd have to use an IFFA suitcase.
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AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.26 15:44:00 -
[779]
Originally by: Gypsio III 15 CPU would allow me to use a DC II where before I'd have to use an IFFA suitcase.
Cool, application for an additional 15 cpu granted.
Now leave all of our recharge times alone. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.26 17:02:00 -
[780]
Dont have time to read the 26 pages, so i apologise if it's been mentioned already in between the inane banter, but removing the speed boost on the Firetail might be worth reconsidering.
It being the fastest ship in game is the only reason a lot of people have it, myself included, so taking that away so it's a little better in combat might just make it even less popular.
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Leto Atal
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Posted - 2009.09.26 21:56:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Dont have time to read the 26 pages, so i apologise if it's been mentioned already in between the inane banter, but removing the speed boost on the Firetail might be worth reconsidering.
It being the fastest ship in game is the only reason a lot of people have it, myself included, so taking that away so it's a little better in combat might just make it even less popular.
I noticed that change too. The base speed has been increased but it's still slower than it was for pilots with Minmatar Frigate level 5. In it's new form it's like a bird shaped Dramiel. Lowering the speed is a bad idea I think.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.27 05:07:00 -
[782]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
<3 CCP
----1 change i woudl like to see
fleet pest gets the damage bonus to projectiles up by 2.5% per level or..............
drop 1 launchers for 2 turrets and make it the insane gun boat it shoudl be. give it a fall off bonus. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
Chakarr
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Posted - 2009.09.27 09:18:00 -
[783]
What about just swapping one of the tempest's bonus's (probably the damage bonus) for a 10% (per level) optimal range bonus?
This would make it stand out from the other minny BS and give it a defined role. As it stands, the phoon is the best RR/gank boat and the mael is better at everything else - giving it an optimal bonus combined with the changes for artillery aplha damage would give it a clearly defined niche. |
Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.27 10:10:00 -
[784]
Nooooo....
Then it'd just be an Apocalypse-made-from-old-shopping-trolleys. Far to homogeneous.
Tempest should be (imho) 10% Damage /level 10% Falloff /level
Falloff bonus is useful for both AC's and Arty's.
Damage bonus coupled with Arty changes makes it King of the AlphaStrike for fleets while still being a bit fragile and lower DPS compared to a Maelstrom
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2009.09.27 11:53:00 -
[785]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
All good changes. The Fleet Tempest changes is better then the previous changes,, but it is getting nerfed from its current state imo. Id go with the 8/6/6 anyday,, its that midlsot that gives the Fleet Pest an edge and worth chosing over Typhoon and regular Tempest.
May i suggest a 8/6/7 layout?
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Chakarr
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Posted - 2009.09.27 12:02:00 -
[786]
Edited by: Chakarr on 27/09/2009 12:16:44
Originally by: Tozmeister Nooooo....
Then it'd just be an Apocalypse-made-from-old-shopping-trolleys. Far to homogeneous.
Tempest should be (imho) 10% Damage /level 10% Falloff /level
Falloff bonus is useful for both AC's and Arty's.
Damage bonus coupled with Arty changes makes it King of the AlphaStrike for fleets while still being a bit fragile and lower DPS compared to a Maelstrom
A good point well made, but it looks even more like a poor mans Mach then...although it would make it stand out from the other 2 minny BS and make it a better sniper...interesting...
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Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.27 12:31:00 -
[787]
Thank you, and yes it would be a poor mans Mach. but that's no bad thing now is it.....
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.27 14:54:00 -
[788]
alas, 10% damage is quite a bit less than 5%damage+5%rof
6*1.25/0.75 = 10 (5% dmg, 5% rof) 6*1.5 = 9 (10% dmg) 6*1.75 = 10.5 (15% dmg)
which would still be a wee bit lower than the 8/0.75 = 10.667 maelstrom and at least that one has 100m¦ drones
/me votes for 10% falloff and 15% damage / lvl - putting the gist back into logistics |
bassie12bf1
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Posted - 2009.09.27 14:57:00 -
[789]
I think the fleet scythe should get a bit more PG and the bonuses changed into damage bonuses instead of rof.
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Taritura
Caldari Achozen Dueces TecH
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Posted - 2009.09.27 15:09:00 -
[790]
Well im reading those changes and it's looks like someone who planed them doesn't play any of those ships at all. Let's look at the faction navy bs. "O we need a change so let's add 50% to all bs' shield recharge time ....." It's no big deal for armor tanking ships. But for my cnr setups it's just a kill. Other "bonuses" are just useless. When someone works on a setup for about a year you just say to him we change thing because we like so, so f... off we always right. It really starts p.. me off that you so offten nerf my race. First the missile nerf.( same sized ship could tank 50% of your dps just by flying at max spped. Now this "nerf with passive shield tank...... You won't make more subscribers by constantly nerfing mechanics, ships ....
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AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.09.27 15:26:00 -
[791]
Edited by: AccesiViale on 27/09/2009 15:29:16
Originally by: Taritura Well im reading those changes and it's looks like someone who planed them doesn't play any of those ships at all. Let's look at the faction navy bs. "O we need a change so let's add 50% to all bs' shield recharge time ....." It's no big deal for armor tanking ships. But for my cnr setups it's just a kill. Other "bonuses" are just useless. When someone works on a setup for about a year you just say to him we change thing because we like so, so f... off we always right. It really starts p.. me off that you so offten nerf my race. First the missile nerf.( same sized ship could tank 50% of your dps just by flying at max spped. Now this "nerf with passive shield tank...... You won't make more subscribers by constantly nerfing mechanics, ships ....
Thats how ccp gets you though. By the time you realize you're being screwed every other patch/rebalance/expansion? you've already given them a bunch of money.
No one yet, including ccp has been able or willing to point out anything positive that will come of upping the recharge time.
Arguments for upping the time thus far are:
"Fitting that way in the first place is dumb"
Hey ccp can you do me a favor and under the changes to the navy ships stats on the first post...list the exact fit you have intended each ship to have so I can just do that and not be screwed again in another 6 months when I didnt fit for what you had in mind. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.27 15:35:00 -
[792]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider alas, 10% damage is quite a bit less than 5%damage+5%rof
6*1.25/0.75 = 10 (5% dmg, 5% rof) 6*1.5 = 9 (10% dmg) 6*1.75 = 10.5 (15% dmg)
which would still be a wee bit lower than the 8/0.75 = 10.667 maelstrom and at least that one has 100m¦ drones
/me votes for 10% falloff and 15% damage / lvl
Kind of depends on just how much the Artys get changed as to how much the damage bonus needs to be to balance it with other Tier 2 BS's. Could even be a split the difference and 12.5% damage per level.
But you agree that a falloff+damage bonused Tempest is better than a rof+damage Tempest?
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.27 16:31:00 -
[793]
This thread has now become a how to boost the Tempest to overpoweredness thread it seems.
Someone wants to be able to fit a full rack of the largest guns and all the other goodies without an rcu?! Ok, then every other race should as well.
I'm seeing 10%, nay, 12.5% to damage . You do realize projectiles are getting a buff soon. Do you even think 12.5% damage bonus for any weapon system is realistic in this game? And if it were to occur would a Mael with 5% ever be built again?
Then someone suggested 8/6/7. Although I believe that one was in jest.
Anyway, stop fantasizing and focus on the changes that have been made with the fleet tempest. I am glad to see that it has been given another slot. I would rather see it be a mid. Minmatar will have a good armor tanker, the Fleet Phoon. We already have the Mael for shield tanking. The fleet Tempest should trully be inbetween to preserve the Minmatar inability to decide exactly what they want their ships to specialize in. An 8/6/6 would make it a good either/or tanker or allow it some ew trickiness. CCP Please reconsider the 8/5/7. It brings it too close to the phoon with that layout.
Realistically unless you change the Mael's damage bonus, the Tempest is not going to get anything more than 5%. With projectiles getting buffed that may be sufficient. I would rather see it lose the damage bonus anyway and retain the traditional 5% rof and receive a falloff bonus intead of damage.
Falloff appears to be getting some assistance with the floated changes to tracking mods. A falloff and rof pest would work well for either ac or arty. For ac a falloff bonus would give range to compete with the pulses. For arty a falloff bonus would give the Tempest a sniper role. And the Mael would still have a place as the high volley option.
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Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.27 17:23:00 -
[794]
If you care to read this last page you'll notice I already said:-
1,That any damage bonus would be dependent on what the final projectile buff is going to be.
2,That any damage bonus would have to balance the ship with other Tier 2 BS's
3,That any damage bonus would still have to leave the Tempest behind the Maelstrom for DPS (and tank).
You'll note the Maelstrom gets a Rate of Fire bonus. not a Damage bonus.
I'm glad you agree a falloff bonus would be good thing, it was already mentioned that this would beef up it's sniper capabilities. But a damage bonus would be preferable to a RoF bonus as this would give the tempest the highest alpha of any BS without any increase in DPS as it is now. The Maelstrom with it's higher DPS and EHP/Tank would still be the better choice of minmatar BS for large fleet and POS bashing.
The new Minmatar BS line up would then be
Typhoon- short range gank-boat with amazing flexibility (AC's/Torps/neutralisers/Remote reppers. plus 5 sentry/heavy drones and 7 lows)
Tempest- Better mid-range and good RR potential with AC's. Highest alpha for gangs and small fleets with Artys.
Maelstrom- Highest EHP and DPS at range. Highest active tank for those that want it.
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.27 17:36:00 -
[795]
*nod* i've been testing "falloff-arties" on the future macha (and cynabal) and i liked the results (with an ambit or two) - ofc i'm aware of the extra turret. but the concept makes sense.
alas.... as much as it may result in a respectable artie-tempest, it does take a bit of wind out of the mael's AC sails.
but yes, a 10-15% damage is realistic for a ship with 6 guns that require a dps bonus in one form or another to be par with any other weapon system to begin with. alpha damage is fun to have in a 30+ BS fleet but as much as SHC may drool over it; when shooting anything bigger (snipe hacs/bc shooting BS, BS shooting caps) dps is the important number. actually, when shooting same sized targets it already is (be that due to t2 resistances and "oversized" extenders on cruiser level, bs doomsday-proof-ness that's not going to change considering the growing popularity of bombers, capitals among themselves) the way it was presented in the F&I thread; the projectile suggestions do not improve this unless you are going to use the 2 shortest ammos in your arties. - putting the gist back into logistics |
AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.27 17:40:00 -
[796]
Originally by: Lili Lu This thread has now become a how to boost the Tempest to overpoweredness thread it seems.
Someone wants to be able to fit a full rack of the largest guns and all the other goodies without an rcu?! Ok, then every other race should as well.
I'm seeing 10%, nay, 12.5% to damage . You do realize projectiles are getting a buff soon. Do you even think 12.5% damage bonus for any weapon system is realistic in this game? And if it were to occur would a Mael with 5% ever be built again?
Then someone suggested 8/6/7. Although I believe that one was in jest.
Anyway, stop fantasizing and focus on the changes that have been made with the fleet tempest. I am glad to see that it has been given another slot. I would rather see it be a mid. Minmatar will have a good armor tanker, the Fleet Phoon. We already have the Mael for shield tanking. The fleet Tempest should trully be inbetween to preserve the Minmatar inability to decide exactly what they want their ships to specialize in. An 8/6/6 would make it a good either/or tanker or allow it some ew trickiness. CCP Please reconsider the 8/5/7. It brings it too close to the phoon with that layout.
Realistically unless you change the Mael's damage bonus, the Tempest is not going to get anything more than 5%. With projectiles getting buffed that may be sufficient. I would rather see it lose the damage bonus anyway and retain the traditional 5% rof and receive a falloff bonus intead of damage.
Falloff appears to be getting some assistance with the floated changes to tracking mods. A falloff and rof pest would work well for either ac or arty. For ac a falloff bonus would give range to compete with the pulses. For arty a falloff bonus would give the Tempest a sniper role. And the Mael would still have a place as the high volley option.
Stripping a bonus from a ship and filling it with one that should already be applied is just about as nerfy as it gets. A ROF and falloff bonus means it loses damage in order to get more falloff that it should have in the first place.
I don't think you understand how terrible the damage of this ship is with TWO damage bonuses. A 10% damage bonus per level and a falloff bonus actually sacrifices DPS for more range.
I think you have some sort of personal agenda re: minmatar (read: Naomi), because once you run the numbers, it's not unreasonable at all. A 10% damage, 5% falloff pest will probably still be overshadowed by the phoon and mael.
That said, give the tempest some speed and agility and I'll be happy.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:17:00 -
[797]
Edited by: Lili Lu on 27/09/2009 18:23:22
Originally by: AstroPhobic Stripping a bonus from a ship and filling it with one that should already be applied is just about as nerfy as it gets. A ROF and falloff bonus means it loses damage in order to get more falloff that it should have in the first place.
Stripping rof from the ship also makes it lose damage. I think too many people have alpha strike colored sunglasses (<3 Astro, just a little joke). It already is likely to get some falloff help with the tracking mod changes. Giving it more falloff gives it traditional minmatar flavor to its range bonus. The rof should stay, it is also a traditional minmatar bonus to overcome the pre-nerf on projectiles. This would make it quite similar to the apoc which gets the bonus to overcome its racial prenerf (-10% cap use for laser) and the racial range bonus (optimal). Both both ships can also apply these bonuses to great advantage with the short range variant guns.
Originally by: AstroPhobic I don't think you understand how terrible the damage of this ship is with TWO damage bonuses. A 10% damage bonus per level and a falloff bonus actually sacrifices DPS for more range.
I do understand it, as things are now. I regularly fly minmatar, in pvp probably more than amarr. But I'm concerned that there would be no differentiation with the Mael. Also, all this talk about Tempest changes is premature anyway til we see the changes to projectiles and tracking mods.
Originally by: AstroPhobic I think you have some sort of personal agenda re: minmatar (read: Naomi), because once you run the numbers, it's not unreasonable at all. A 10% damage, 5% falloff pest will probably still be overshadowed by the phoon and mael.
Two things: First, that really hurts. Please don't ever compare me to Naomi. Also, I have no desire to boost amarr and nerf minmatar, I fly them both. Clearly what appears to be coming is a minmatar boost, and thankfully no amarr nerf, which is the way it should be, and is what i've been calling for. We are just arguing the particulars.
Second, your second sentence's argument makes no sense. You could accuse me of having a personal agenda against the Tempest if what you say is true. But, not against Minmatar as a whole.
What I am trying to say is calm down everyone. This is a game of 5-10%, and usually just 5%, bonuses (unless you fly Caldari and deserve 30% bonuses, but that is an axe to grind in other threads). Throwing numbers around at this point makes no sense until we see the changes to projectiles. Certainly we can talk thematic bonuses, but numbers probably have to wait.
In summation, it is good the Minmatar ships are getting their extra slots. Let's debate the placement of them, and the general bonuses that could be applied to equalize these ships with existing ships of other races. However, let's not get carried away talking 12.5% bonuses on weapons systems that are going to be changing at some relatively near juncture. (soon tm, and all that aside).
Edit- ok, my mistake, damage bonus fine to diffentiate from mael. But how much that percentage should be should be left open, awaiting projectile changes.
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Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:25:00 -
[798]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
....it does take a bit of wind out of the mael's AC sails.
AC Maelstrom would still have the OverheatedXL burst tank option. Yes, the buffer Maelstrom would suffer but if that's the price of getting the tempest out of the wilderness then one worth paying I think.
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.27 18:31:00 -
[799]
Originally by: Tozmeister
1,That any damage bonus would be dependent on what the final projectile buff is going to be.
2,That any damage bonus would have to balance the ship with other Tier 2 BS's
3,That any damage bonus would still have to leave the Tempest behind the Maelstrom for DPS (and tank).
You'll note the Maelstrom gets a Rate of Fire bonus. not a Damage bonus.
Ok agreed, and my mistake about the Mael. Been a long time since I flew one. I fly the phoon, claymore, and sad Minmatar recons mostly.
Originally by: Tozmeister I'm glad you agree a falloff bonus would be good thing, it was already mentioned that this would beef up it's sniper capabilities. But a damage bonus would be preferable to a RoF bonus as this would give the tempest the highest alpha of any BS without any increase in DPS as it is now. The Maelstrom with it's higher DPS and EHP/Tank would still be the better choice of minmatar BS for large fleet and POS bashing.
The new Minmatar BS line up would then be
Typhoon- short range gank-boat with amazing flexibility (AC's/Torps/neutralisers/Remote reppers. plus 5 sentry/heavy drones and 7 lows)
Tempest- Better mid-range and good RR potential with AC's. Highest alpha for gangs and small fleets with Artys.
Maelstrom- Highest EHP and DPS at range. Highest active tank for those that want it.
Sounds good. I gotta get back in game. Trying to read forums and play at the same time not so good for either.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.27 19:57:00 -
[800]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 27/09/2009 19:57:27
Originally by: Lili Lu Stripping rof from the ship also makes it lose damage. I think too many people have alpha strike colored sunglasses (<3 Astro, just a little joke). It already is likely to get some falloff help with the tracking mod changes. Giving it more falloff gives it traditional minmatar flavor to its range bonus. The rof should stay, it is also a traditional minmatar bonus to overcome the pre-nerf on projectiles. This would make it quite similar to the apoc which gets the bonus to overcome its racial prenerf (-10% cap use for laser) and the racial range bonus (optimal). Both both ships can also apply these bonuses to great advantage with the short range variant guns.
The problem is, optimal as a mechanic is 2.6x as strong as falloff. Want to give the tempest a 26% falloff range per level bonus? Neither do I.
Oh, and the apoc got it's other bonus built in, it wasn't just deleted.
Quote: I do understand it, as things are now. I regularly fly minmatar, in pvp probably more than amarr. But I'm concerned that there would be no differentiation with the Mael. Also, all this talk about Tempest changes is premature anyway til we see the changes to projectiles and tracking mods.
The mael is a fat pig and probably always will be. It lives, breathes, and dies with the shield tank. It won't ever be that nimble AC brawler with neuts or TDs - it will be a fat sit-here-and-soak-damage ship praying to hit stuff with barrage. It's slow and has limited range.
Quote: Two things: First, that really hurts. Please don't ever compare me to Naomi. Also, I have no desire to boost amarr and nerf minmatar, I fly them both. Clearly what appears to be coming is a minmatar boost, and thankfully no amarr nerf, which is the way it should be, and is what i've been calling for. We are just arguing the particulars.
Indeed, with one of the main issues being falloff. While you want to get rid of damage to put on more falloff, I'm saying we just need more falloff period. Killing that damage bonus for falloff is probably counterproductive in every way. Just picturing the damage/range graph in my mind, it will lose DPS up close and probably do the same DPS in the range it normally fires at anyway. Oh, and it kills the arty pest completely.
Quote: Second, your second sentence's argument makes no sense. You could accuse me of having a personal agenda against the Tempest if what you say is true. But, not against Minmatar as a whole.
Some of the back and forth with Liang make me really question that. Perhaps we're not supplying enough numbers or graphs, but honestly projectile performance is dreadful to laughable in most cases. Falloff is a terrible and weak mechanic.
Quote: What I am trying to say is calm down everyone. This is a game of 5-10%, and usually just 5%, bonuses (unless you fly Caldari and deserve 30% bonuses, but that is an axe to grind in other threads). Throwing numbers around at this point makes no sense until we see the changes to projectiles. Certainly we can talk thematic bonuses, but numbers probably have to wait.
Looking at optimal as a mechanic 2.6x stronger than falloff - divide by that number if it makes you feel better. A 30-35% falloff increase across the board would be similar to 10-12% optimal. Falloff has to deal with higher multipliers. And yes, when you're looking at trying to combine the two of the tempest, the numbers get big. Especially when trying to cope with the 25% rof "racial" nerf/bonus.
Cont.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:07:00 -
[801]
Quote: However, let's not get carried away talking 12.5% bonuses on weapons systems that are going to be changing at some relatively near juncture. (soon tm, and all that aside).
I believe liang did the numbers in another thread, and with RF EMP the pest gains another 7% DPS? Not a terrible lot, especially considering the lack of DPS even when completely gank fit. The fact that 12.5% damage = 7.5% ROF is simply a matter of math manipulation. Look at the nag - it has a 7.5% ROF bonus and it doesn't seem so absurd. The number is big but the effect isn't as large - most people want alpha over ROF to differentiate from other weapons such as rails.
Quote: ok, my mistake, damage bonus fine to diffentiate from mael. But how much that percentage should be should be left open, awaiting projectile changes.
12.5% damage (and knocking off the ROF) leaves it just shy of it's current DPS. It might push 10k alpha, though. I really don't mind the current bonuses if it would just get a little bit more speed and agility. Also, an increase of falloff across the board. I'd settle for a fusion/EMP switch and EMP reconfiguration.
Quote: I think too many people have alpha strike colored sunglasses (<3 Astro, just a little joke). It already is likely to get some falloff help with the tracking mod changes. Giving it more falloff gives it traditional minmatar flavor to its range bonus.
Alpha is useful as long as the DPS isn't terrible. I'm not about to start advocating for a tempest that can instapop HACs - but a few of them should. I want people to **** their pants if they see 3 tempests sitting on top of a gate. It's great for smaller fights and smaller gang combat. Plus, it's just plain cool.
The tracking comp/(enhancer?) changes will help, but only if they do it correctly. 10% falloff from a TC is not useful, and is more like a slap in the face. Again, I think falloff just needs a boost across the board to account for hit quality, which is never mentioned by CCP.
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:20:00 -
[802]
Been messing with the Firetail all weekend and haven't found anything that it's particularly good at yet.
My current fit:
High - 2x 200mm ACII - 1x Arbi Rocket
Mid - 1x Web II - 1x Scram II - 1x AB II - 1x Tracking Disruptor
Low - 1x Gyrostab II - 1x OD II - 1x Inertial Sabilizer II
All the rigs are for speed, agility and acceleration.
This fit works like a charm on the Dramiel but no such luck with the firetail even though both ships are almost identical from a fittings perspective.
Thoughts / suggestions appreciate.
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.09.27 20:52:00 -
[803]
Originally by: Sputnik Tsygan Slot layout:
3 high (3 turrets no launcher) 4 medium 3 low
Base speed: 357m/s (same as before)
Ship Bonuses (per level):
+5% Maximum velocity +7.5 Small projectile turret tracking speed
I can get behind this. The Firetail that's currently on Sisi is lacking the speed, durability or damage output to distinguish itself.
There are plenty of Minmatar ships with great damage output. Taking the Firetail from an effective four turrets to three and giving it back its speed sounds like a reasonable ballance.
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Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.27 21:11:00 -
[804]
Not to keep hammering a point as you you've already agreed a damage bonus would be better than a rof bonus but...
Originally by: Lili Lu
...I think too many people have alpha strike colored sunglasses.
That's just it. we need those sunglasses as the current Tempest is a dull shade of grey. A good Alphastrike and effective AC's would give it just the right amount of colour.
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.27 21:33:00 -
[805]
The proposed changes to the fleet tempest typhoon and fleet typhoon are all great and on spot! Fleet tempest now finnally can field a proper heavy tank.
THe tempest change is a welcome help to make it useful on RR fleet gangs.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.28 04:38:00 -
[806]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Look at the nag - it has a 7.5% ROF bonus and it doesn't seem so absurd
ehm the nag performs 'cause it has 33% more weapons than a damage-bonus'ed full-rack revelation... /me starts extrapolating from the damage bonues'ed abaddon - putting the gist back into logistics |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.28 05:44:00 -
[807]
Originally by: Seishi Maru THe tempest change is a welcome help to make it useful on RR fleet gangs.
The Tempest change means 5K EHP with 2 EANM, DC, Trimarks. I mean, it's better, but it's by no means a great change. IMO, if anything, the projectile changes will either fix the pest or not.
However, we've always said it's best to fix projectiles *THEN* the pest.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.28 07:01:00 -
[808]
Edited by: Tozmeister on 28/09/2009 07:01:20 Thing is Liang, you know how CCP works. If they are looking at the Tempest with a view to rebalancing stats then now is the time to get some much needed changes in as it wont be looked at again for a couple of years.
Carpe Diem, quam minimum credula postero.
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
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Zey Nadar
Gallente The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.28 09:32:00 -
[809]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium As some of you may have guessed by now, Dominion release will bring improvements to most in-game faction ships, as we do feel they do not perform properly in their intended roles at the time being.
This kind of implies they HAVE a role..
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Happster
Polaris Project
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Posted - 2009.09.28 11:38:00 -
[810]
Edited by: Happster on 28/09/2009 11:39:04 To get pest leveled up with the other BS it needs to be balanced.
I dont think pest should be able to have a great tank and great dps. The sugestions that were made earlier gave me hope it would get the role the description of the ships tells.
With 7 high slots, and 7 guns, it would be ok with 6 mids and 5 low. It can not muster an awsome tank, but it can spit out damage like no one else. This should be how the normal tempest could be.
Fleet pest should then simply be added 1 ekstra mid slot and leave it with that. With the extra mid slot, the fleet pest would be able to spit out damage as the pest, but also fit a good tank. Not as good as the mael, but still.
Edit: With these slots layout, i think it would be a good sniper too.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.28 12:52:00 -
[811]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 28/09/2009 12:54:16
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Seishi Maru THe tempest change is a welcome help to make it useful on RR fleet gangs.
The Tempest change means 5K EHP with 2 EANM, DC, Trimarks. I mean, it's better, but it's by no means a great change. IMO, if anything, the projectile changes will either fix the pest or not.
However, we've always said it's best to fix projectiles *THEN* the pest.
-Liang
But they are doign that.. They announce the projectile changes 2 days before the tempest shield armor adjustment :P
THis small increase in HP at least bring the tempest in a NOT COMPLETELY PATHETIC HP on RR gangs. The increase on damage from the ammo changes will also help a bit.
Now for the tempest to have a different role than the other ships it needs, as Astro said something as more agility/speed. Make it able to warp out in 9 seconds.. and then you have a real advantage. That would make it in a good hit and run ship ... then is just neede to create situations where this is useful :)
The 10% damage bonus and 10% falloff per level would be the perfect tempest with a different role. Less DPS than the other 2 battleships but with clear advantage on using its range. BUT that might be a bit too much to expect from CCP, since a lot of peopel would whien just because 2 bonuses of 10%
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.09.28 15:55:00 -
[812]
Originally by: Tozmeister Thank you, and yes it would be a poor mans Mach. but that's no bad thing now is it.....
I love your signature.
Also, kinda gotten used to the paintjob on the Navy Domi, doesn't look so bad. Can't really speak for ship balance though.
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Trent Tyler
Minmatar Legion of Lost Souls
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:55:00 -
[813]
Firetail give it back its unique max speed Typhoon 5/5 would be much nicer instead of a 8th low, which is just gonna be another plate
Join channel: "Eve University" or read here "What is best in life?" " |
God GirlFriend
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Posted - 2009.09.28 20:13:00 -
[814]
Originally by: Trent Tyler Firetail give it back its unique max speed Typhoon 5/5 would be much nicer instead of a 8th low, which is just gonna be another plate
omg READ..it will be BOTH 5/5 and 8 low slots.
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.09.29 00:51:00 -
[815]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.09.29 06:56:00 -
[816]
Originally by: Ahz
Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.
Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).
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Veryez
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Posted - 2009.09.29 08:55:00 -
[817]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
68 mil SP and I can finaly fly the phoon correctly, you then change it into the stuff of dreams, please make these changes. The Tempest changes are meh, but perhaps w/the projectile changes might turn out ok.
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Caldor Mansi
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Posted - 2009.09.29 09:16:00 -
[818]
Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 29/09/2009 09:20:04 Moved..
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.09.29 11:32:00 -
[819]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Ahz
Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.
Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).
Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.
People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)
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Potrero
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.09.29 15:33:00 -
[820]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Ahz
Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.
Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).
Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.
People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)
Yeah, pretty sure this will officially turn the phoon into a torpedo boat.
Maybe the Fleet Issue should get the 5/5 = 8 layout but the standard phoon should stay at 4/4 = 8.
Personally I'm okay with having to make these trade-offs with the current ship.
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Oedepus
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Posted - 2009.09.29 15:59:00 -
[821]
Played around with some Hookbill fits. =/ I feel the proposed CAP, PG, CPU and slot layout make it almost useless.
I would much prefer to see this ship get fit with 4 turret slots with the CAP, PG and CPU to fit a proper tank and tackle with adjusted bonuses to match. If it is to remain a missile ship then at least give it 4 launcher slots and still boost the CAP, PG and CPU to provide for a decent tank and tackle.
The Hawk is the T2 missle varient for the Caldari AF and it is considered to be one of the worst AFs in game. Why make a T1 version of it that can't fight it's way out of .7 astroid belt.
If the current changes for the Hookbill make it into the game I'll give mine away as I'll no longer have a need for it.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.29 16:28:00 -
[822]
Yeah, I tried putting SMLs, MWD, MSE buffer, disruptor and then some ewar on the Hookbill, making a nice kiting frigate with ewar. But the fittings were hopelessly inadequate.
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.29 16:32:00 -
[823]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.
People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)
Maybe. I don't think they will have the CPU/PG to go with a 5 torp/3 AC setup without gimping the tank or the versatility. You will probably see some glass tank versions, but I think for the most part the 5 AC, 3 Torp will be the more likely to happen.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Ahz
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Posted - 2009.09.29 16:51:00 -
[824]
Originally by: Orakkus
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior. They can reach around 18 km with NO damage reduction from range with already WAY higher base DPS and sicne they are missiles and ignore the tracking from your own ship moving Fast (somethign typhoon can do) they are the perfect choice.
People will use AC only when usign a full 8 rack of guns (5 torps 3 AC)
Maybe. I don't think they will have the CPU/PG to go with a 5 torp/3 AC setup without gimping the tank or the versatility. You will probably see some glass tank versions, but I think for the most part the 5 AC, 3 Torp will be the more likely to happen.
My current fit on Sisi
- 5x Torp - 3x Heavy Diminishing
- 1x Web II - 1x Scram II - 1x Cap Booster - 1x 100mn AB II
- 1x ENAM - 2x Hardners - 2x Ballistic Control II - 1x Heavy Repper II - 1x Damage Control II
Current Router Rigs to make it fit + 1 CCC (I think)
That's with 7 lows. I'm sure everyone can think of a couple of things to do with the proposed 8th low slot.
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Galdethi
Caldari TARDZ
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Posted - 2009.09.29 19:30:00 -
[825]
Well speaking as a mish runner who uses a passive tank on his CNR (and has spent shedloads on maxing all the skills for it and the imps) I think the shield regen change for all navy BS's is BS, its only going to nerf passive tanking CNR's and do buggerall to the rest who dont shield tank anyway.
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:01:00 -
[826]
Originally by: Ahz My current fit on Sisi
- 5x Torp - 3x Heavy Diminishing
- 1x Web II - 1x Scram II - 1x Cap Booster - 1x 100mn AB II
- 1x ENAM - 2x Hardners - 2x Ballistic Control II - 1x Heavy Repper II - 1x Damage Control II
Current Router Rigs to make it fit + 1 CCC (I think)
That's with 7 lows. I'm sure everyone can think of a couple of things to do with the proposed 8th low slot.
Yeah, I was right though. You gimped your tank pretty severely to get that to work (PG rigs instead of tanking rigs, no armor plates, no armor repping rigs). A single local rep might be enough when fielding three neuts against an opponent (though in practice myself, two were usually sufficent). Also looks like you are using named T1 Siege launchers instead of T2 variants. Same with the Cap booster, are you running a Heavy or just a medium? It would be interesting though after the projectile changes to see what the difference will be in damage output.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2009.09.29 20:04:00 -
[827]
k, so pls tell me wtf the slasher is losing CPU? What do you expect us to use the extra low for without CPU?
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Ahz
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Posted - 2009.09.29 21:15:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Orakkus
Originally by: Ahz My current fit on Sisi
- 5x Arbi Torp - 3x Heavy Diminishing
- 1x Web II - 1x Scram II - 1x Heavy Cap Booster II - 1x 100mn AB II
- 1x ENAM - 2x Hardners - 2x Ballistic Control II - 1x Heavy Repper II - 1x Damage Control II
Current Router Rigs to make it fit + 1 CCC (I think)
That's with 7 lows. I'm sure everyone can think of a couple of things to do with the proposed 8th low slot.
Yeah, I was right though. You gimped your tank pretty severely to get that to work (PG rigs instead of tanking rigs, no armor plates, no armor repping rigs). A single local rep might be enough when fielding three neuts against an opponent (though in practice myself, two were usually sufficent). Also looks like you are using named T1 Siege launchers instead of T2 variants. Same with the Cap booster, are you running a Heavy or just a medium? It would be interesting though after the projectile changes to see what the difference will be in damage output.
Fixed. And you're right. Not the toughest of tanks. But again, we just got another low.
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.29 22:02:00 -
[829]
As I said, maybe :).
Either way, I'd like to know how well you do against Mega/Domis and Amarr battleships on Sisi.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Ahz
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Posted - 2009.09.29 22:35:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Orakkus As I said, maybe :).
Either way, I'd like to know how well you do against Mega/Domis and Amarr battleships on Sisi.
So would I.
Look me up on Sisi and we'll find out.
So far I've taken it out 3 times: A win and a loss against two Nightmares. A loss to a Navy Domi.
But that was with seven low slots. I now have eight.
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Dfire
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Posted - 2009.09.30 08:34:00 -
[831]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Plz, Do not do it!!!
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OSGOD
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Posted - 2009.09.30 13:39:00 -
[832]
is navy gonna get its 50% bonus to large hybrid turrets back u bunch of mofo`s
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Orakkus
Minmatar m3 Corp Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.30 16:02:00 -
[833]
Originally by: Ahz
Look me up on Sisi and we'll find out.
So far I've taken it out 3 times: A win and a loss against two Nightmares. A loss to a Navy Domi.
But that was with seven low slots. I now have eight.
Yeah, sounds like a plan. It'll take me a bit to get SiSi test connection setup, but once I do I'll look for ya.
I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet. |
Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:24:00 -
[834]
I HAVE A DREAM!
[Tempest, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Warp Disruptor II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5
+10% speed and agility ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:34:00 -
[835]
maybe we need subsystems for the tempest so everyone can pick his slot layout -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:04:00 -
[836]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Ahz
Of course, I don't know who will ever put guns on one again, but that's a different problem.
Well, projectiles are getting boosted. And also, even ACs will give you much better operational range than torps, and are ridiculously easy to fit. Sure, most setups will probably go for an in-your-face torp setup, but ACs (with Barrage) can be pretty nasty too (coupled with lots of neuts, for example).
Even with AC ammo boost, the torpedoes are a whole class superior.
Well they ought to be generally superiour considering their much higher fitting cost than AC's. I have no trouble with the typhoon generally being used as a missile boat - it's about time Minmatar had a good missile boat BS, given how 'versatile' they are suppoesd to be.
And I think AC typhoons still have their advantages and uses.
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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.09.30 20:37:00 -
[837]
Why does CCP insist all Minmatar ships be armor tankers?
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Makalu Zarya
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:03:00 -
[838]
the colors on the navy mega and domi are really not that great, i vote to change navy mega to what it used to be and give the same c/s to the navy domi as well
just my 2 cents
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:39:00 -
[839]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 30/09/2009 22:39:58
Originally by: Ecky X Why does CCP insist all Minmatar ships be armor tankers?
The Maelstrom, Cyclone, Vagabond, nano-Cane, Rapier, Sleipnir, Vargur, Scimitar, and Broadsword would like to have words with you...
ED: Forgot a couple.
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Manique
Caldari Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.09.30 23:38:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Cordo Draken
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships: General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
0.0 Ah, take away one of the main strengths of the Caldari. With all the Nuets out there, this makes perfect sense to surplunge the CNR completely! That kills that tank.
As with everyone else here I think, We enjoy the added goodies you guys at CCP develop for us, but seriously, it seems like not everything is thought out thoroughly. Many would argue favorites in the race category. Please don't make Caldari and Minmatar the red-headed step children you just bash around with nerf fury. It really kinda kills it for that half of the universe, and with all the posts to back, seems very obvious.
As a caldari player I have to agree with this. At least give the navy raven some defence against neuts/nos.
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Mojster Pek
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Posted - 2009.10.01 00:39:00 -
[841]
give the navy mega more base armor! EVEN THE NAVY DOMINIX AND FLEET TEMPEST HAVE MORE! WTF?(+1000 armor hp would be great)
and keep the old pwg and cpu, so only a pro could fit it!...with the new buff on pwg and cpu any noob could fit allmost anything he likes on the ship...
MAKE US THINK HOW WE SHOULD FIT OUR SHIPS.. the navy mega has allways been 'the seperator' between stupid ppl(and how they fit it) and 'the smart' ppl... you could allways tell just by looking at the guns if the dude is active or buffer tank, if he's got an injector or a neut or mwd... how much pwg are his guns useing, and suspect how the rest of ships is fitted... but with the new navy mega... everybody is just gonna have the neutron blasters and you could never tell if he's got an injector or neut or mwd or even repair, and never guess the weak point...
and what's with the firetail ? it should be the fastest ship out there... |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 11:20:00 -
[842]
Originally by: Mojster Pek give the navy mega more base armor! EVEN THE NAVY DOMINIX AND FLEET TEMPEST HAVE MORE! WTF?(+1000 armor hp would be great)
you are aware that you'd have to trade in structure hp, right? - putting the gist back into logistics |
Sebroth
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Posted - 2009.10.01 12:07:00 -
[843]
I like the idea of making the tempest hull armor tankers. Why? This is why:
MaelstromSheild + Turret weapon platform TempestArmor + Turret TyphoonArmor + 'hybrid'
If the tempest hull would be more of a shield tanker you get:
MaelstromShield + Turret weapon platform TempestShield + Turret TyphoonArmor + 'hybrid'
So with a armor tanking tempest we get 3 "unic" minmatar battleships. Yes I dont shuffle in faction battleships in the minmatar lineup. Angel ships are not minmatar ships in my book and should not be treated like they are. It is always harder to balance 2 ships that basicly do the same then 2 that are not. The armor/turret tempest would also be the natural choise for the young minmatar pilots with most sp in projectiles and armor tanking. The few that have more sp in shield will have the maelstom at BS level. Im not 100% sure but I do have a feeling most minmatar pilots first go projectile + amor then they add shield and last they add missiles (and drones mix in it all ofc). Just like I did.
I do agree that the game have to many ships focused on armor tanking but I dont think 2/3 of the minmatar BSs should be shield tankers just to balance it out. Specially not when the 3rd BS and only alternative is the most skill intensive (sub capital) ship in game.
Imho they should remove more hp from shield and add some extra armor hp to even more make the tempest hull a armor tanker. ----- Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that) |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 12:20:00 -
[844]
Originally by: wallenbergaren Edited by: wallenbergaren on 29/09/2009 20:11:28 k, so pls tell me wtf the slicer is losing CPU? What do you expect us to use the extra low for without CPU?
Co-processor II
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Tiger's Spirit
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Posted - 2009.10.01 13:12:00 -
[845]
Originally by: Ecky X Why does CCP insist all Minmatar ships be armor tankers?
Maybe because they change the Naglfar to shield tankers. :D You feel the CCP logic ?
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.10.01 13:25:00 -
[846]
Originally by: Sebroth I like the idea of making the tempest hull armor tankers. Why? This is why:
MaelstromSheild + Turret weapon platform TempestArmor + Turret TyphoonArmor + 'hybrid'
If the tempest hull would be more of a shield tanker you get:
MaelstromShield + Turret weapon platform TempestShield + Turret TyphoonArmor + 'hybrid'
Except seen in the context of those who wish to cross train...
MaelstromSheild + Turret weapon platform TempestArmor + Turret TyphoonArmor + 'hybrid'
ApocArmor + Turret GeddonArmor + Turret AbaddonArmor + Turret
DomiArmor + 'hybrid' MegathronArmor + Turret HyperionArmor + Turret
ScorpShield + Missiles RavenShield + Missiles RokhShield + Turret
There are currently twice as many armour tankers at battleship level. I believe that the sheer number of ships competing in the same niche is the reason why the Tempest loses out even though it is kinda different to it's racial peers.
Quote: I do agree that the game have to many ships focused on armor tanking but I dont think 2/3 of the minmatar BSs should be shield tankers just to balance it out. Specially not when the 3rd BS and only alternative is the most skill intensive (sub capital) ship in game.
The typhoon more than makes up for it now after the 5/5 slot assignment. And either way, many pilots would agree that shield tanking provides better synergy with minmatar's speed and agility, due to plates adding mass and rigs reducing speed.
Quote: The few that have more sp in shield will have the maelstom at BS level. Im not 100% sure but I do have a feeling most minmatar pilots first go projectile + amor then they add shield and last they add missiles (and drones mix in it all ofc). Just like I did.
If they fly t2 ships, it's most likely they would have much greater skill points in shields, so I disagree. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 17:52:00 -
[847]
scorp is a shield tanker...? - putting the gist back into logistics |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 18:39:00 -
[848]
Edited by: Ulstan on 01/10/2009 18:39:50 I'd be happy if 100% of minmatar BS were primarly shield tankers (with possibly the option to go armor tank). The game has way more than enough armor -turret boats already. Dominix, Megathron, Hyperion, Armageddon, Apocalypse, Abaddon, and Typhoon (If using the new 5 turret slots). We don't need another one.
I think having roughly half the BS in the game shield tank and half armor tank is better than having basically everyone armor tank. The more shield tanking BS there are, the better a shield tanking BS fits into the gang. (Or would if you could actually use RR shield reps)
Moreover, minmatar BS are supposed to be slightly more agile and fast than other races BC. This goes out the window if you are slapping plates and trimarks on everything.
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:34:00 -
[849]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider scorp is a shield tanker...?
I see what you did there ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.02 06:02:00 -
[850]
give tempest fleet issue its med back. that's all.
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AccesiViale
Gallente Vox de Lucis
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Posted - 2009.10.02 13:52:00 -
[851]
Originally by: Manique
Originally by: Cordo Draken
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships: General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
0.0 Ah, take away one of the main strengths of the Caldari. With all the Nuets out there, this makes perfect sense to surplunge the CNR completely! That kills that tank.
As with everyone else here I think, We enjoy the added goodies you guys at CCP develop for us, but seriously, it seems like not everything is thought out thoroughly. Many would argue favorites in the race category. Please don't make Caldari and Minmatar the red-headed step children you just bash around with nerf fury. It really kinda kills it for that half of the universe, and with all the posts to back, seems very obvious.
As a caldari player I have to agree with this. At least give the navy raven some defence against neuts/nos.
I'm glad to see that a few people other than me find this change to 3390 absurd in the case of the CNR. I seriously doubt they will change it though as it such an obscure and illogical/unwarranted change.
I mean if the designers seriously overlooked the fact when they created the faction BS that all the shield times are the same as the standard variant then they are fail. When creating a new ship from an already existing hull you have what...15 values to tweak? Nobody years ago went "Hmm maybe because we gave them more shield we should increase the time to charge some."
As they obviously didn't think it was important enough to change then...its certainly not now. Do it right the first time or not at all. The sky was blue but there was no god. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.02 21:45:00 -
[852]
Originally by: AccesiViale
As they obviously didn't think it was important enough to change then...its certainly not now. Do it right the first time or not at all.
As much as I think nerfing Passive Shield Tanking on faction BSs is an unrequested/unneeded changed...
If CCP has your philosophy, Projectiles would be staying broke forever and we'd all still be in nano ships.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.10.03 00:05:00 -
[853]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
I love you
me and my typhoon bpo really do love you right now. ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Vyktrr
Amarr The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
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Posted - 2009.10.03 02:47:00 -
[854]
Tbh, Give the Phoon 8/8 Turrets/Launchers, with 8 lows, and bonuses to armour resistance and reduction in MWD cap reduction.
That way we could make it what we want, within the acceptable restrictions of the grid and cpu. Awesome.
I say make the Pest full shield tanker with 7 mids, 4 lows, and the extra turret!
We need more shield/guns.
Navy Mega: Give it a 15% large Hybrid Optimal per level in addition to current bonuses.
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Schmell
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Posted - 2009.10.03 05:58:00 -
[855]
Edited by: Schmell on 03/10/2009 05:58:59
Originally by: Vyktrr Tbh, Give the Phoon 8/8 Turrets/Launchers, with 8 lows, and bonuses to armour resistance and reduction in MWD cap reduction.
That way we could make it what we want, within the acceptable restrictions of the grid and cpu. Awesome.
I say make the Pest full shield tanker with 7 mids, 4 lows, and the extra turret!
We need more shield/guns.
Navy Mega: Give it a 15% large Hybrid Optimal per level in addition to current bonuses.
I figured out: you hate minmatar and gallente (upd: you are an amarr, of course you hate)
Mwd cap bonus is the most useless bonus in game (just look at deimos lol). Tempest proposal...oh, god no Blaster optimal bonus for ship, that uses mostly blasters...wow
===============
For typhoon i`d like to have missile+drone damage bonus, but it just a wet dream
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Ecky X
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Posted - 2009.10.03 19:00:00 -
[856]
I support Typhoon changes, there is now NO reason to fit crappy large projectiles.
I would rather the Tempest be a shield tanker. As stated, we have plenty of armor tanking battleships. An 8/7/4 Pest would be amazing for small-gang work (but probably slightly worse for sniping), or even 8/6/5, though we already have a bunch of those. 8/5/6 is, tbh, a pretty poor slot layout for most everything.
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Potrero
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.04 05:00:00 -
[857]
Originally by: Ecky X I support Typhoon changes, there is now NO reason to fit crappy large projectiles.
Maybe.
But now you can mount 5x 1400mm artillery on it and take it into fleet combat. Cheaper than a Tempest and the drone bay gives it more options for defending itself up close.
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.10.04 11:51:00 -
[858]
Originally by: Potrero
Originally by: Ecky X I support Typhoon changes, there is now NO reason to fit crappy large projectiles.
Maybe.
But now you can mount 5x 1400mm artillery on it and take it into fleet combat. Cheaper than a Tempest and the drone bay gives it more options for defending itself up close.
No way, it¦s gonna be much worse for sniping than even Tempest is currently. You only have 5 guns with one damage bonus... You won¦t break 200 dps with tremor.
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Pattern Clarc
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.10.04 12:16:00 -
[859]
Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 04/10/2009 12:16:18
Originally by: Ecky X I support Typhoon changes, there is now NO reason to fit crappy large projectiles.
I would rather the Tempest be a shield tanker. As stated, we have plenty of armor tanking battleships. An 8/7/4 Pest would be amazing for small-gang work (but probably slightly worse for sniping), or even 8/6/5, though we already have a bunch of those. 8/5/6 is, tbh, a pretty poor slot layout for most everything.
/me wonders whether the game design/Balance department are listening... ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Carniflex
Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.10.04 13:39:00 -
[860]
The current iteration of navy scorpion is a lot more reasonable than first one. While I personaly would not pick it over navy raven I guess it might be attractive to some people. Same people who currently really love to overtank their navy ravens. It's basically normal raven with really sick tank altho in that regard I think it's atm just crappy Golem with low initial skill re****ents so it has some uses for beginning players - assuming they can afford it. As it has to sacrifice Ravens range bonus to get it's shield resitance bonus it will not be attractive torpedo platform ofc.
In short - it's better now but still lacking the 'bling' to really make it attractive - at least it's no longer total catastrophe it was at first. Outclassed by Golem with price ending in approx same ballpark considering it will be exlucive to FW LP store. If I would need to pick something for PvP I would bring Golem over Navy Scorpion regardless of Golem crappy sensors.
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Olga Chukarin
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Posted - 2009.10.04 17:52:00 -
[861]
Edited by: Olga Chukarin on 04/10/2009 17:55:52 Edited by: Olga Chukarin on 04/10/2009 17:55:13 (edit, *shield* recharge not cap!)
Why such a nerf to the fleet tempest? Especially passive shield fleet tempests (probably the only thing the fleet tempest is better at than the other 3 navy bs's)
Changes been made:
Lose 1 midslot Gain 1 lowslot Lose 50% shield recharge
So before, a regular T2 fitted passive fleet tempest (2 T2 invs, 4 LSE II's, 3 gyro 2's or SPR 2's depending on how much you want to tank, 3 SPR 2's, 3 purger rigs) could get 900-odd dps tank with 6 sprs, or 400 odd dps tank with 3 sprs and 3 gyros. Now, the change from 6/6 to 7/5 only means you have to swap a LSE for a SPR, but the 50% recharge nerf means you have to sacrifice all your gyros to achive the same amount of tank. And the +4 increace in EMP damage does not make up for the DPS loss of not having a rack of gyros fitted.
Also, the updated Typhoon (the regular one, not the fleet issue) fitted for passive shield actually outperforms the fleet tempest now, for the same amount of tank! And that is with T1 cruise launchers, T1 ogres, and NOTHING in the 3 other highslots!
Probably the worst thing about it is the difference between the regular 'pest and the fleet one now, considering you are spending an extra 275 mill for the fleet ship
Before, the fleet 'pest had 50% better shield recharge and an extra mid over the regular one, making its passive tank much better
Now, presumably the idea is to restrict you to armour tanks, and all you get for that is 1 extra lowslot over a regular tempest! Which brings the ship equal to the standard battleships of the gallante/amaar race that have 8 lowslots and can use the extra low to fit a 1600 which brings the armour HP equal to the fleet tempest!
If the destruction of the passive tanked fleet tempest is supposed to make fleet tempests pvp only (since thier only advantage now is the extra hull HP) then do the same to CNRs... give them a massive nerf to active shield tanks...
The 50% recharge nerf is completely unneccecery, if you want to get rid of something from fleet tempests to give them extra slots, ditch those pointless 4 missile slots...
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kessah
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.10.04 19:40:00 -
[862]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
Id like to see the Phoons rof bonus to large projectiles replaced with a 10% less factor for sig on torpedos skill or something to that effect tested. It would be nice to have a another dedicated 2nd missle orientated battleship.
a single dmg bonused armour tanked ship for projectiles just makes them so meh.
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Siroh
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Posted - 2009.10.05 01:22:00 -
[863]
Can we just take caldari and missiles out of the game now and ban all the caldari accounts. Once again let's put a nerf on a caldari ship you all ready made the warheads explode with yellow dandilons so jsut remoce caldari out of the game. Jsut say gallante nuked them or the sleepers came out the worm holes and attacked good job on the shield recharge nerf on the cnr.
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Ecillium
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Posted - 2009.10.05 03:10:00 -
[864]
TBH huge meh.. For ships that are only rarely going to see the light of day as it is due to their massive cost, for the most part they dont do anything new.. domi is still a domi etc etc cant really see the point in spending the time to farm FW LP for them when in the same time you could do enough L4's to buy a couple of capitals
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.05 04:22:00 -
[865]
you just get a alt to run the milita missions or u use contracts to exchange regular faction ship offers ie navy mega for navy dominix.
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Alsyth
Night Warder
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:12:00 -
[866]
Edited by: Alsyth on 05/10/2009 11:16:53 Edited by: Alsyth on 05/10/2009 11:13:53 Apart from the 5/5 turrets/lauchers of Typhoon, I really don't like those changes.
I want to shield tank ALL my Matar BSs...
Getting rid of shield tankers is not going to improve the game. Right now fleet battle force to armor tank, and this is the problem, not the fact that Matar BSs are better at shield tanking.
Tempest can already either shield or armor tank, and it has 2 utility high slots the Mael doesn't have. Don't say that a shield Pest is a bad Mael, it's not true.
Please CCP, realize that the problem is CPU need of shield transfers. Instead of making 8 out of the 12 BSs in the game ONLY good at armor tanking at a fleet level, when only two of them has utility high slots (Raven/Scorpion). Because then it will be too late, shield tanking in fleet will never survive this :/
Edit : And killing shield recharge rate... Which is already poor compared to ANY BC or Command ship... It's good only in PVE, and not overpowered in any way. Why nerf it ?
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Borg Shopper
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:43:00 -
[867]
PLEASE make navy domi BLACK/SILVER as current navythron!!!! TOUCH my navythron and it will immediatly be on contracts... BEST looking ship in Gal lineup, ruined by camo!!! While at it, black Navy vex, Exec, and Diemost (like vigi) would rock! |
Psyleste
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.05 14:56:00 -
[868]
Originally by: Borg Shopper TOUCH my navythron and it will immediatly be on contracts...
WTB new best looking ship in the game cheap.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Icarus Prime
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Posted - 2009.10.06 01:57:00 -
[869]
Kind of late to this party, but I just took a look at the new Rattlesnake, Gila and Worm on Sisi. If that isn't overkill and pissing in the face of the concept of balance, then I don't know what is. I'm really glad that I finally started cross training Caldari, and Gallente will be next up.
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Kallana Wren
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Posted - 2009.10.06 02:56:00 -
[870]
I really like the changes to the Phoon, even with the split bonuses. Keep the RoF bonus on projectile, should make it a nice close range RR brawler. Not in favor of turning it into a Minmatar Raven lite.
Glad to see some love for an awesome ship.
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Shar'ri Atal
Minmatar Asa Njord Research
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Posted - 2009.10.06 11:51:00 -
[871]
What is the new camo texture on the new faction ships all about?
Do CCP think we will want to hide them in a forest?
It looks bad and it makes no sense. Make them black. The current Dramiel textures are a good example of this style.
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DeathBS
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:19:00 -
[872]
I think that the Fleet Tempest should be 8/7/4, or even 8/6/5 again with the 7th turret and swap the armor/shields back.
A 8/6/5 Tempest would be good too, with armor/shield swapped back.
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Sol ExAstris
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:42:00 -
[873]
curses to the whiners who wanted the Fleet Issue Tempest's spare med/low slots back and summarily made it lose its 7th turret mount. That was the most promising change/addition I'd seen on the whole list.
*sigh*
but overall the changes/additions look solid.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.07 02:52:00 -
[874]
Fleet pest rules with that 8/5/7 but i woudl like to see the 7th gun slot come back.
As for my other thoughts, do not make it a shield tanker, with the changes to tracking computers coming ie, included fall off bonus, those mids will best be used to make the arts hurt as much as possible and not having it be a tank.
As for my other thoughts, the 5% to damaage / rof is meh, it shoudl be 7.5% and have a 5% fall off bonus or a 5% tracking bonus. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
Roland Thorne
Dark Sun Collective Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.10.07 07:02:00 -
[875]
Originally by: Shar'ri Atal What is the new camo texture on the new faction ships all about?
Do CCP think we will want to hide them in a forest?
hehe
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:05:00 -
[876]
You'll praise your lucky stars when the hills you inevitable have to run to are forested .. like a built-in cloak!
It is an extremely well done and pretty paint job, it is just out of place in the environment we inhabit.
Save it for a ground assault vehicle in Dust
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.10.07 12:19:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
As for my other thoughts, do not make it a shield tanker, with the changes to tracking computers coming ie, included fall off bonus, those mids will best be used to make the arts hurt as much as possible and not having it be a tank.
You do realize that with the updated tracking computers and tracking enhancers on Sisi atm, that tracking enhancers give you 15% optimal AND falloff as well as 9.5% tracking and are easier to fit cpu/pg-wise than tracking computers? To match that you need a tracking computer with an optimal/falloff script which means you lose the tracking bonus. Since enhancers are low-slot modules, this makes shield tanking preferable for highest dps.
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.10.07 12:35:00 -
[878]
Edited by: Mr Opinions on 07/10/2009 12:35:29 btw while we are on the fix minmatar BS bandwagon, please change the maelstrom shield boost bonus to a shield resist bonus, like the drake, so that the defensive bonus is also useful when being remote-repped in fleet engagements. That's not a faction ship (yet), but why not just sort all this at once.
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.10.07 13:31:00 -
[879]
Edited by: Stealthbug on 07/10/2009 13:31:19
Originally by: Mr Opinions Edited by: Mr Opinions on 07/10/2009 12:35:29 btw while we are on the fix minmatar BS bandwagon, please change the maelstrom shield boost bonus to a shield resist bonus, like the drake, so that the defensive bonus is also useful when being remote-repped in fleet engagements. That's not a faction ship (yet), but why not just sort all this at once.
Navy Rokh Navy Abaddon Navy Hyperion Fleet Maelstrom
A man can dream...
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.10.08 02:37:00 -
[880]
Originally by: Mr Opinions Edited by: Mr Opinions on 07/10/2009 12:35:29 btw while we are on the fix minmatar BS bandwagon, please change the maelstrom shield boost bonus to a shield resist bonus, like the drake, so that the defensive bonus is also useful when being remote-repped in fleet engagements. That's not a faction ship (yet), but why not just sort all this at once.
I feel it would be better+more flavourful if all the 7.5% rep bonuses affected both local and incoming remote rep...
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Fish Mittens
Minmatar 0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.10.08 06:34:00 -
[881]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
The changes to the phoon are Fantastic.
The slot changes for the Fleet Tempest are an improvement.
But why for the love of god swap the shield and armor values of the standard and fleet Tempest?
It's a sub-par armor tanker with 6 lows, it's not a tanking ship flat out. It's strengths are its agility, and also hopefully with the projectile changes proposed as a hit and run mid-range sniper (using high alpha).
In this role, the best config for the ship is to use its lowslots for damage and agility not a tank.
If I want a ship with an armor tank the phoon, domi, mega or, geddon do a much better job.
Swap shield armor values back on the tempest please, give the pest an unique role rather than trying to make it a lesser version of other races ships.
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Ag3nT 0rang3
Caldari DamageDealer Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.08 06:37:00 -
[882]
Tier 2 BS Shield recharge 3390s ?! Great boost CCP, really, i love it! NOT! Nerv it all along.... Never change a good and running system....oh wait, it's EVE, i forgot...
PS: No one needs a Navy variant of a Tier 1 BS...
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Selvacin
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Posted - 2009.10.08 12:56:00 -
[883]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
I can see your trying to give the tempest a role, but you giving it slots without a purpose, take away the ROF bonus for an optimal bonus, give it back its 7th gun and keep the slot layout, hp values i don't care about i think the pest should be put into a artillery role and one thing arty suffers from in bad optimal so a optimal bonus would help out, and with new projectile changes comming threw a ROF bonus is nothing for a ship that depends on a alpha strike.
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khufo
Minmatar SandStorm.
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Posted - 2009.10.08 13:00:00 -
[884]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
LoL, seems minmat ships are always troublesome to alter their setups and bonuses
As several people posted before, Tempest fleet needs revisiting, yes it's gonna be straight forward to fit loosing it's versatility which imho was one of the good points of this ship
Khufo, Son of Ra, the Lord of the two lands, the beloved of Hathor, given stability forever |
Selvacin
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Posted - 2009.10.08 14:37:00 -
[885]
Edited by: Selvacin on 08/10/2009 14:38:04
Originally by: khufo
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
LoL, seems minmat ships are always troublesome to alter their setups and bonuses
As several people posted before, Tempest fleet needs revisiting, yes it's gonna be straight forward to fit loosing it's versatility which imho was one of the good points of this ship
i never saw the tempest as much a versatile ship because of it grater quantity of low slots to mids and turret/launcher setup. I have always seen the tempest as a decent mid-range sniper with cruise missles or a duel 650(800's for fleet version) gun boat with torps and a decent armor buffer, i will admidit all your doing ccp when adding low slots to minmatar ships you trying to aid our nerfed speed tanks which will never work unless you give all minny ships some ungodly bonus to AB's, or your incressing out buffer tanks, our tanks don't need as much help, help out our damage ability, i get 450 base dps with my vega but because im shooting into falloff im getting maybe 2/3 of it 1/2 of the time. and off topic but for god sake fix the lokis amp node sub, the whole discription talks about shield boosting yet it gives a sig bonus, i would love to see a shield boost bonus on a loki.
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khufo
Minmatar SandStorm.
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Posted - 2009.10.08 15:59:00 -
[886]
Originally by: Selvacin Edited by: Selvacin on 08/10/2009 14:38:04
Originally by: khufo
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
LoL, seems minmat ships are always troublesome to alter their setups and bonuses
As several people posted before, Tempest fleet needs revisiting, yes it's gonna be straight forward to fit loosing it's versatility which imho was one of the good points of this ship
i never saw the tempest as much a versatile ship because of it grater quantity of low slots to mids and turret/launcher setup.
Current Tempest fleet has 6 low and 6 mid not a greater quantity of low to mids!!!
Khufo, Son of Ra, the Lord of the two lands, the beloved of Hathor, given stability forever |
Selvacin
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 17:34:00 -
[887]
Originally by: khufo
Originally by: Selvacin Edited by: Selvacin on 08/10/2009 14:38:04
Originally by: khufo
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
LoL, seems minmat ships are always troublesome to alter their setups and bonuses
As several people posted before, Tempest fleet needs revisiting, yes it's gonna be straight forward to fit loosing it's versatility which imho was one of the good points of this ship
i never saw the tempest as much a versatile ship because of it grater quantity of low slots to mids and turret/launcher setup.
Current Tempest fleet has 6 low and 6 mid not a greater quantity of low to mids!!!
Norm tempest is 8/5/6 fleet is 8/6/6 They made revisions to both and most people here have been talking about both as both have NO role what so ever in the universe of eve now because of nerfs and boosts to other races.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.10.08 18:40:00 -
[888]
Tempest is another RR BS now? :(
How sad.
I had really hoped it would become a proper shield tanked ship. We got so many armor RR BSs now a days some shiled BSs would be very welcome.
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Selvacin
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Posted - 2009.10.08 19:00:00 -
[889]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan Tempest is another RR BS now? :(
How sad.
I had really hoped it would become a proper shield tanked ship. We got so many armor RR BSs now a days some shiled BSs would be very welcome.
all BS's can be RR BS
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Potrero
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.08 20:08:00 -
[890]
Anyone found a competitive fit for the Firetail yet?
Mine: 2x 200mm AC II barrage 1x Arbi rocket launcher
1x Web II 1x Scram II 1x Tracking disrupter (best named) w/ tracking speed script 1x AB II
1x Gyro II 1x Speed Mod 1x Nano II
3x speed rigs (agility, poly carb, thrusters)
Lots and lots of close range fights in this set up (people are just giving away Firetails) against all manner of frigate. No wins. Thoughts appreciated.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.08 21:39:00 -
[891]
Untanked ship in dying shocker?
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Potrero
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.09 02:31:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Potrero Anyone found a competitive fit for the Firetail yet?
Mine: 2x 200mm AC II barrage 1x Arbi rocket launcher
1x Web II 1x Scram II 1x Tracking disrupter (best named) w/ tracking speed script 1x AB II
1x Gyro II 1x Speed Mod 1x Nano II
3x speed rigs (agility, poly carb, thrusters)
Lots and lots of close range fights in this set up (people are just giving away Firetails) against all manner of frigate. No wins. Thoughts appreciated.
Oh yeah, and the Daredevil is overpowered.
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Alien King
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Posted - 2009.10.09 08:37:00 -
[893]
Edited by: Alien King on 09/10/2009 08:37:37
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships: General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
Great how dumb can you be? now with NERVING that who will EVER buy T2 or for that matter T1 Large Core Defence Field purgers? Cause comon its bearly worth It I think (haven't been able to test it) but seriously my Passive tanked Rattler bearly has enough tank to tank as it is already :( SO why not UNDO that stupid move just for sakes of the traders around here ;)
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.10.09 09:19:00 -
[894]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
Mkay... First off, phoon is probably the only minmatar BS that DOESN'T need a change. Your 5/5 layout pretty much means just 5. 1 bonus, and incidentally it's the projectile one, will remain unused. It also creates cpu issues. Typhoon needs no altering, it's perfectly fine as it is. Please stop doing stuff to it.
As for fleet pest, you're pretty much turning the fleet pest into a bad megathron. While bad megathron is better than current fleet tempest, I still don't really see the reason for flying it over the typhoon, especially in it's proposed uber version with 5 torp launchers and 3 utility slots. While ignoring one bonus. lol. Why giving up on the shield tank on a shield tanking race is really hard to understand. I know 2 plates, 2 eanms, dc and 2 dmg mods are cool, but don't we have enough such ships flying around already? Or no wait lets dual rep it it's so original and versatile!
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Earl Scarelet
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Posted - 2009.10.09 13:32:00 -
[895]
Edited by: Earl Scarelet on 09/10/2009 13:32:45
Originally by: Stealthbug Edited by: Stealthbug on 07/10/2009 13:31:19
Originally by: Mr Opinions Edited by: Mr Opinions on 07/10/2009 12:35:29 btw while we are on the fix minmatar BS bandwagon, please change the maelstrom shield boost bonus to a shield resist bonus, like the drake, so that the defensive bonus is also useful when being remote-repped in fleet engagements. That's not a faction ship (yet), but why not just sort all this at once.
Navy Rokh Navy Abnddon Navy Hyperion Fleet Maelstrom
A man can dream...
Navy Legion Navy Tengu Navy Loki Navy Proteus
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Nalena Arlath
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Posted - 2009.10.09 14:39:00 -
[896]
So will these changes to the faction ships also include making them cost less?
Paying 40mill for a Navy Slicer when you can get T2's for under half, and at equal (or even better) performance, is quite a waste of ISK and effort.
Biggest drawback with all factionships has been their cost vs performance not being feasible. Except, I guess, mission running Nightmares.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.10.09 17:32:00 -
[897]
So, CCP: If you lose your collective minds and follow-through with making all Fed Navy ships green camo ... will the Diemost fall into line with the Duvolle boats and get a gold paintjob?
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.10.10 01:43:00 -
[898]
Gotta wonder if any love is planned for the Navy cruisers, particularly the older tier 2 models. Every pirate ship sans sansha as well as navy bs and frigs are in the process of a rework. If all goes thru as planned the Navy Vexor will retain a 100m3 dronebay/bandwidth while the Gila will be running amok with 125/400 and a resistance boosted passive tank.
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elitatwo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.10 15:22:00 -
[899]
To all my Caldari mates, a lot has been said about all the issues and nerfs we got in the last years, starting with the RMR extension. Since then all caldari ships were nerfed beyond any usefullness for pvp and all other races were buffed to total domination. For the gallente as THE overwftpwn overkill pvp race with all its mwd buffs or teh suparrrr wtfpwn turret and ubaaarr armor tanking ships, same for amarr and teh overkill always speed tanking minmatar ships. You left us with slow moving, unequal looking ships with the possibiliy to ecm a few before we get grilled. A little example: A year ago I had an unpleasent encounter with a gang of 4 Vagas and an amarr assault cruiser (cant remember). My base Raven fits: 6x cruise II / Heavy Dim Nos / SB or RR 1x LSB II / 1x boost amp II / defence mods 3x PDU II / 2x BCU II Now the Vaga's didn't do any dmg at all, so they ran off with there ubaarr speed mwd's and I started to fire on the amarr assoult cruiser. Imagine a battleship with the big caldari nerf missile launchers hammering 6x cruise missiles every 6.8 seconds on a non moving cruiser (grouped together), which resulted in an enormouse amount of 61 dmg in total on teh shields of an amarr elite cruiser is something WAAAAYYYYY beyond funny! As a race amarr should be THEE armor tankers of teh universe and the caldari should be THEE shield tankers of teh universe there is something very wrong here, isnt it?? A cruise missile with 2x BCU II has a base dmg of like 410hp (guessed) and hits a NON MOVING target with like 61hp.. What is wrong with you? Are you even tried to fly caldari ever?? Or is ANY game designer gallente/amarr/minmatar because caldari arent worth the skilltime AT ALL? Given teh base resistance of tech1 caldari ships - which are supposed to be shield tankers I see some deficite to shields in general. How can it be that an elite cruise is outgunning a battleship (yeah well only one race in peticular here). Now let's have a look on what amarr ships have as primary weapon system: Lasoorrrr guns, small, medium, large and super x-large Lasoorrrr guns, which do Thermal and EM dmg. Now seeing caldari as THEE shield tankers of teh universe, they get a total base EM shield resist of ZERO %. Now lets have a look at some other race' ships base resist and oh waaait, whats that? You get a base resist to ALL dmg types big time, in regard to teh armor tankers which do nooo way rely on shields. Besides that I repeat that teh supaarr standard missile launcher as a primary weapon system need a complete overhaul to be in teh line with other weapon system or even better: Take it out for gods sake! Lower PG and CPU usage for teh assult launchers to that of the standard launchers, rename them and we would get a primary weapon system that maybe usefull. As for rockets, I recall somewhat of teh information as it states: "Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system..." - but to what??? Did any of you Dev's ever fitted these lmao launchers? Teh only thing they do might be to scare someone of by its sound, compared to its damage, if its doing dmg at all. Now let's go back to teh other weapon systems in the game. We have: Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large hybrid turrets and blasters; Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large projectile artillery and somewhat guns; Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large lasooorrr gun in all flavours and as the guns before in short and long-range flavor; and look what we have here to counter: "Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system." Rocket launchers; standard useless launchers; assault launchers, which cant be uses by assault ships; supaarr heavy to fit at all heavy assault launchers with crap ammo missiles for close range; heavy missiles that might hit something that isnt moving, like an afk-miner, but decent dmg; cruiser missiles and torpedos. Oh noes - I figured it out. Complete failure!
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Saurish
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Posted - 2009.10.10 15:50:00 -
[900]
2 things to add:
Machariel needs its tracking speed back.
Add 1k power grid more to apoc navy, just like vindicator got 2k power grid.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.10 16:25:00 -
[901]
Originally by: elitatwo
Oh noes - I figured it out. I'm a complete failure
He's right you know.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.10.10 20:53:00 -
[902]
Originally by: elitatwo wow, just wow!!
10 of 10! Beautiful use of the medium. Many edits went into crafting such a superb post. No logical counter explanations can be presented. Airtight arguments. We must find a trophy to award, nay, crown you, Caldari Whiner Extraordinaire!
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.10.10 21:40:00 -
[903]
Originally by: elitatwo Blah blah blah blah blah blah
Um......... Yeah, please return to your corner and don't speak anymore... Thanks.
I can barely understand your arguments, assuming they even exist. And if you can't tell, aversion to words like "teh", "ubaaar", "suparrrr", or other ridiculously overdone internet slang tends to make you sound more legitimate and worth listening to.
So to you sir, "lrn2spll kthx"
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.11 00:55:00 -
[904]
highslot != midslot != lowslot != turret point != missile point
Balancing one slot for another type of slot (especially hardpoints) does NOT work.
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Selvacin
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Posted - 2009.10.11 02:30:00 -
[905]
Edited by: Selvacin on 11/10/2009 02:33:47 elitatwo you oiously don't know how to fit a caldari ship except for lvl 4 ravens if you think caldari suck at pvp, i know plenty of people who use cadlari ships for pvp, the only thing the caldari suffer from is slow speed and thier weapons have the potentail to not do much damage to a smaller target. And idk what game you hav ebeen playig for the past year but minnys are no longer WTF fast after the nano nerf i can no longer outrun your missles with my vega, and have you seen how fast a torp raven can burn threw other bs's, i saw one burn threw a trimarked mega in under 30 seconds, you can get 900-1200 dps with torps and a propper fitting, the max i can get with my pest is 700 with a decent buffertank fitted, so shut up and stop complaining about caldari there is nothing wrong with em. Now your gonna say well rockets and HAMS are broke, well try using them on ships that have bonus's for, drakes with hams can ******* hurt, and a crow with rockets will rip apart any other frig it happens to catch. So try downloading eft and learn to use close range weapons before you ***** about your race.
and btw if 4 vegas could not kill your "uber tanked" raven its them not you as 4 vegas should be able to kill any tech 1 base bs.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.10.11 09:56:00 -
[906]
Tempest and Fleet Tempest is still crap.
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Bentakhar
|
Posted - 2009.10.11 10:06:00 -
[907]
Just a little thing about the navy megathron. It would be nice to see it use the UBERAWESOME Roden Police Commander/Major skin (black and red) As i was flying next to one of those in my green camo navy mega, i felt quite jaelous ;) Or make the non-npc vindicator use that Red and black skin.and leave the navy mega in green camo. I would love to differenciate my own vindi from the ones im shooting. but PLEASE give us the ability to fly such a badass painted megathron!!!!!!!!!
PLEEEASE!
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Selvacin
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Posted - 2009.10.11 15:26:00 -
[908]
Ok on the tempest,as i have seen other say for the most part, either make it a shield tank or a armor tank, i would say 90% of the people who fly it use armor, to leave the mids for utility purposes and it works great in that matter but it has a weaker tank in both values, duel tanking take up to many slot to be effective and more people prefer to have there e-war, cap, boosters, or other utility there that can't go into the lows. Its the same with all shield tankers, for Caldari you have to weaken you tank to fit any kind of pvp equipment, i say a total revamp of the slot system where you have set slots for a "tank" set slots for "utility" and keep high slots the same, because when i a armor tanking ship dose not have to compromise his tank to essentially pvp and shield tanking ship dose it needs to be fixed.
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Olga Chukarin
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Posted - 2009.10.11 20:41:00 -
[909]
Are we going to get a refund for all the large purger rigs we have put on our fleet tempests/ navy ravens, now the FT has been turned into a pure PVP only ship, and the CNR to active tanked only?
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.10.11 21:09:00 -
[910]
Originally by: Olga Chukarin Are we going to get a refund for all the large purger rigs we have put on our fleet tempests/ navy ravens, now the FT has been turned into a pure PVP only ship, and the CNR to active tanked only?
Purgers on a Tempest/CNR
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.12 01:59:00 -
[911]
sounds like purgers need to have a 20% boost to their affects
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.12 06:23:00 -
[912]
Originally by: HeliosGal sounds like purgers need to have a 20% boost to their affects
Purgers need to disappear. Or be nerfed. A lot. WTB rig that repairs armour automaticly
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.12 06:31:00 -
[913]
so a boost to pergers and then a fitting nerf to make em a bit harder to fit in got it
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Olga Chukarin
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Posted - 2009.10.12 18:25:00 -
[914]
Edited by: Olga Chukarin on 12/10/2009 18:26:54
Originally by: Miriiah
Originally by: Olga Chukarin Are we going to get a refund for all the large purger rigs we have put on our fleet tempests/ navy ravens, now the FT has been turned into a pure PVP only ship, and the CNR to active tanked only?
Purgers on a Tempest/CNR
ok, you tell me another way, using just T2 fittings, that you can get 1000+ dps omnitank on a current fleet tempest without using purger rigs.
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dalman
Vale Tudo.
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Posted - 2009.10.12 20:54:00 -
[915]
Errr, the stats of the Navy Scorpion and the Rattlesnake are a joke, right?
Surely it would be more convenient to just implement a "God mode" button on the UI instead of actually creating indestructible ships?
Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.13 06:26:00 -
[916]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Tempest and Fleet Tempest is still crap.
This,
I love the idea of a fleet pest being 8/5/7 with the future of tracking computers going to have a falloff bonus but......... it needs 7 turrets and the bonuses to be at 7.5% per level. This would make the fleet pest finally comperable to others.
so for the reg pest make bonuses 7.5 %
fleet pest keep the 8/5/7 with 7.5 % and 7 or 8 turrets.
I would like to see the fleet pest be the evil gun boat that everyone screams in terror when it appears. --------------------------
WTB a sig, or moderation of my sig by all the hot CCP girls. |
HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.13 09:21:00 -
[917]
the 7.5% bonus is a good idea. Has CCP looked at expanding the modules on targetting disruptors for other facotrs ?
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.10.13 17:55:00 -
[918]
Originally by: Olga Chukarin Edited by: Olga Chukarin on 12/10/2009 18:26:54
Originally by: Miriiah
Originally by: Olga Chukarin Are we going to get a refund for all the large purger rigs we have put on our fleet tempests/ navy ravens, now the FT has been turned into a pure PVP only ship, and the CNR to active tanked only?
Purgers on a Tempest/CNR
ok, you tell me another way, using just T2 fittings, that you can get 1000+ dps omnitank on a current fleet tempest without using purger rigs.
And 300 dps?
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Jane Hush
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Posted - 2009.10.13 18:46:00 -
[919]
Dont nerf the Ninjapest! Keep the shield as it is!
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DelboyTrotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2009.10.13 19:14:00 -
[920]
Originally by: Jane Hush Dont nerf the Ninjapest! Keep the shield as it is!
This... An agile shield buffered Tempest is a viable and fun fit for the ship.
Don't ruin this... Leave the values for shield and armor the same please. |
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ASR Briggs
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Posted - 2009.10.14 03:57:00 -
[921]
Dear CCP,
While I appreciate what you are *trying* to do with the typhoon, split DPS systems are epic fail all round. If you want to use your lows for weapon mods you have to pick one and neglect the other, making them near on useless. Most people don't even bother fitting the 4 AC's because they are a complete waste of time.
And please tell me I'm not the only one to notice this: The typhoon gets a 5% bonus to RoF on both missiles and turrets. For now we will say that 5% RoF = 5% damage (which it does not because it makes reloading more frequent!). If you have 4 launchers with 5% bonus damage, and 4 turrets you 5% bonus damage, overall you get......let's see.......5% bonus damage! So the 'phoon has effectively ONE ship bonus. Thankyou CCP on continuing to make my Minmatar experience a thoroughly unenjoyable one.
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A Ingus
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:55:00 -
[922]
Originally by: dalman Errr, the stats of the Navy Scorpion and the Rattlesnake are a joke, right?
Surely it would be more convenient to just implement a "God mode" button on the UI instead of actually creating indestructible ships?
Originally by: ZigZag Joe Purgers need to disappear. Or be nerfed. A lot. WTB rig that repairs armour automaticly
both QFT.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.14 18:31:00 -
[923]
Originally by: dalman Errr, the stats of the Navy Scorpion and the Rattlesnake are a joke, right?
Surely it would be more convenient to just implement a "God mode" button on the UI instead of actually creating indestructible ships?
Confirming that BS 1v1 comparisons are meaningful, that tanking is a role, that these ships are immune to neuting, that their tanks won't just collapse to a handful of BS, and that you're stupid.
A nano-Machariel is by far a more survivable ship than the Navy Scorp or Rattler.
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A Ingus
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Posted - 2009.10.14 20:21:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: dalman Errr, the stats of the Navy Scorpion and the Rattlesnake are a joke, right?
Surely it would be more convenient to just implement a "God mode" button on the UI instead of actually creating indestructible ships?
Confirming that BS 1v1 comparisons are meaningful, that tanking is a role, that these ships are immune to neuting, that their tanks won't just collapse to a handful of BS, and that you're stupid.
A nano-Machariel is by far a more survivable ship than the Navy Scorp or Rattler.
Ok, so comparisons against a pvp blob are meaningful? Any ship will die to that. Tanking may not be a role but you seem to want it to stay on these ships. If neuts work so well then a Bhaalgorn should have no problem killing a Rattler in a one on one right, oh nm that's not meaningful. And yes I suppose anyone that disagrees with you is stupid.
Leave the proposed new ships the way they are CCP. They are terrible. Noone will want or fly them?
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Icarus Prime
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Posted - 2009.10.14 23:30:00 -
[925]
Originally by: Vrikshaka Hi just popping in real quick to say that the camo skins on the new navy ships really, really look like shit.
Thanks,
V
Fixed. And Signed.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Icarus Prime
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Posted - 2009.10.14 23:40:00 -
[926]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium ...
I. Navy Frigates:
Due to their split weapon layout and lack of dedicated role, navy frigates usefulness remains quite limited. We plan to turn them into an hybrid of interceptors and Assault frigate classes, combining points of both, being less specialized than the Tech2 hulls, thus more versatile but less resilient.
...
Every time I read or hear the word "versatile" from someone from CCP, I know the result will be a piece of crap that most people will never fly.
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fatboy21007
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Posted - 2009.10.15 04:08:00 -
[927]
say developers wat about vindicators? that is a faction ship. are ships like that type i have in other races getting a kick boost also?
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Nabiah
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Posted - 2009.10.15 09:11:00 -
[928]
Most minmatar ships that has only one single bonus to guns and can equip 4 or more guns have better DPS using Amarr weapons than those of its race. TESTED.
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crimson fire
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Posted - 2009.10.15 11:04:00 -
[929]
Cant believe they screwed the navy domi like that! :/ How about some drone bonus.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.15 15:16:00 -
[930]
The new 5/5 missile/turret typhoon is great and an example of what minmatar ships should be like.
I think the ship would be powerful and worth flying, and that's all I really care about, not whether it has 'one bonus' or 'two bonuses' or 'one and a half bonuses'. You can go 5 turrets and utility highs, 5 missiles and utility highs, or 4 and 4.
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Elilil
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Posted - 2009.10.15 16:08:00 -
[931]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
Created a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away when they were at the top of the food chain with no capital or T2 hulls to compete with, navy tier 2 battleships actually receive little and disparate boost to their intended role(s). The following changes are aimed to fix this.
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
Apocalypse Navy Issue:
òFittings: 580 CPU, 21525 powergrid òDronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged òSensor: +25% sensor resolution
Wouldn't it be nice to have the armor resists just a little bit higher then a standard apocalypse? And ofcourse not as high as the Paladin.
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Olga Chukarin
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Posted - 2009.10.15 18:21:00 -
[932]
Originally by: Miriiah
Originally by: Olga Chukarin Edited by: Olga Chukarin on 12/10/2009 18:26:54
Originally by: Miriiah
Originally by: Olga Chukarin Are we going to get a refund for all the large purger rigs we have put on our fleet tempests/ navy ravens, now the FT has been turned into a pure PVP only ship, and the CNR to active tanked only?
Purgers on a Tempest/CNR
ok, you tell me another way, using just T2 fittings, that you can get 1000+ dps omnitank on a current fleet tempest without using purger rigs.
And 300 dps?
Thats what the gankship I'm fleeted with is for. Besides, if you dont need 1000 tank, you can swap 3 of the SPR's for gyro twos (or republic fleets), and you will have a ship that can outgank all other minnie battleships, and still be able to tank most L4's - including the AE bonus room.
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Sunbird Huy
Caldari WEPRA CORP Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.10.17 02:52:00 -
[933]
Originally by: Ag3nT 0rang3
PS: No one needs a Navy variant of a Tier 1 BS...
monkeys can type...still don't mean they make much sense...
Anyways...I just got a fleet pest...so wondering, it's rigged with shield rigs, one of them is actually T2...
Question Are you going to give us an option to swap the rigs with the new patch or are we going to be f'cked up the a'se once again, like what happened with our rigs/rig bp's turned into large versions on apocrypha post patch?
Players are receiving lots of ISK damage, if not direct, then at least in cost of refitting the already fitted ships. Now put that in faction/deadspace fitted cases of these Fleet/Pirate faction ships, and you get large number of zeros involved, especially with t2 rigs involved.
Has any thought been given to this matter?
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.10.17 06:09:00 -
[934]
Originally by: A Ingus
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: dalman Errr, the stats of the Navy Scorpion and the Rattlesnake are a joke, right?
Surely it would be more convenient to just implement a "God mode" button on the UI instead of actually creating indestructible ships?
Confirming that BS 1v1 comparisons are meaningful, that tanking is a role, that these ships are immune to neuting, that their tanks won't just collapse to a handful of BS, and that you're stupid.
A nano-Machariel is by far a more survivable ship than the Navy Scorp or Rattler.
Ok, so comparisons against a pvp blob are meaningful? Any ship will die to that. Tanking may not be a role but you seem to want it to stay on these ships. If neuts work so well then a Bhaalgorn should have no problem killing a Rattler in a one on one right, oh nm that's not meaningful. And yes I suppose anyone that disagrees with you is stupid.
Leave the proposed new ships the way they are CCP. They are terrible. Noone will want or fly them?
Any ship with a neut can kill these ships.
A navy scorp is very dangerous, but definitley killable. 5% resists don't make the abaddon or rokh unkillable do they? and there's only so many slots you can use for tanking...
The rattler is even easier, it's basicly a navy-scorp with less damage output so you don't even need to tank as much while shooting it.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.10.17 06:19:00 -
[935]
And 300 dps?
Thats what the gankship I'm fleeted with is for. Besides, if you dont need 1000 tank, you can swap 3 of the SPR's for gyro twos (or republic fleets), and you will have a ship that can outgank all other minnie battleships, and still be able to tank most L4's - including the AE bonus room.
[Maelstrom, Idiottank] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
There you go, 1/10th the price
990 dps omni
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Xiozor
Anonymous Alcoholics Wrath.
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Posted - 2009.10.17 11:20:00 -
[936]
^ And you can run that for how many seconds? ----------------------------------------------- Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes. |
Olga Chukarin
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Posted - 2009.10.17 11:59:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Miriiah And 300 dps?
Thats what the gankship I'm fleeted with is for. Besides, if you dont need 1000 tank, you can swap 3 of the SPR's for gyro twos (or republic fleets), and you will have a ship that can outgank all other minnie battleships, and still be able to tank most L4's - including the AE bonus room.
[Maelstrom, Idiottank] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
There you go, 1/10th the price
990 dps omni
Theres a big problem with that setup. It is whats known as an 'EFT setup'. Yes if you bang it into EFT with all level 5 you can get a cap stable 990 omni-tank. Unfortunatly NOONE ingame has all level 5 skills! The fit is so tight on cap that slightest deviation from all level 5 and you are lucky to get a couple of minutes of cap out of it!
With my fleet tempest the only thing you lose with less than all level 5 skills is tank, not cap.
Plus you have naff all cpu left, you cant even fit a rack of 1200 T2's, let alone 1400's.
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Miriiah
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Posted - 2009.10.17 21:44:00 -
[938]
Edited by: Miriiah on 17/10/2009 21:46:09 Edited by: Miriiah on 17/10/2009 21:45:21
Originally by: Olga Chukarin
Originally by: Miriiah And 300 dps?
Thats what the gankship I'm fleeted with is for. Besides, if you dont need 1000 tank, you can swap 3 of the SPR's for gyro twos (or republic fleets), and you will have a ship that can outgank all other minnie battleships, and still be able to tank most L4's - including the AE bonus room.
[Maelstrom, Idiottank] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
There you go, 1/10th the price
990 dps omni
Theres a big problem with that setup. It is whats known as an 'EFT setup'. Yes if you bang it into EFT with all level 5 you can get a cap stable 990 omni-tank. Unfortunatly NOONE ingame has all level 5 skills! The fit is so tight on cap that slightest deviation from all level 5 and you are lucky to get a couple of minutes of cap out of it!
With my fleet tempest the only thing you lose with less than all level 5 skills is tank, not cap.
Plus you have naff all cpu left, you cant even fit a rack of 1200 T2's, let alone 1400's.
lvl 5 cap skills(anyone that flies bs's have these skills) and cc4 and cr4 implants, about 20m each if that, and it's cap stable with shield blahblahblah skill at 4, my main has it cap stable + another 10 cap/sec extra due to implants
For "cpu issue" use a faction shield booster/named cap flux(beta) they are basically free, faction booster is around 100m, maybe 200m, and your tempest is 400m + 3* 250m(minimum) for 3 purgers, so yeah, still beats it
this setup is far from EFT Perfection
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Sunbird Huy
Caldari WEPRA CORP Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:47:00 -
[939]
The world you live in is an interesting and lively little place...
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Tokran Inami
Matari Exodus
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Posted - 2009.10.18 11:50:00 -
[940]
Originally by: ASR Briggs
Quote: Even cylone isn't bad (better than prophecy or ferox)
omg I lol'ed so hard when I read this. The ship bonus is to active shield tanking, u just try and fit one and see what DPS you can tank. It is abysmal, even with great skills.
Try this one: [Cyclone, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
10MN MicroWarpdrive I X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M [empty high slot] Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x3
Peak Tank with overheating is more than 600dps, sustained Tank around 450. Not bad for a t1 BC. Can boost it even more if you can live without a propulsion mod. Cyclones Problem isnt the tank, it's the damage. Even with the 2 Gyros this Setup leaves you a tad over 400dps with all V's and overheating. Not that great for a BC.
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ASR Briggs
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Posted - 2009.10.18 15:08:00 -
[941]
Firstly, I would like to thank you for actually posting a fit and not being a forum warrior "rar rar rar rabble you're stupid and wrong etc' lol Secondly, I will give that fit a try and see how it goes. I've tried heaps of different fits (including faction modules....) and can't find anything that is truly effective. I love the ship 'cause I think it looks mint so it's been frustrating. But what frustrates me the most is that is offers only one advantage over it's slightly more expensive brethren (+10m^3 drone bay, wooo). To take the cheaper, weaker ship you would expect SOME sort of advantage. But the capacity, mass, inertia modifier, align time, signature radius and velocity are all exactly the same. The ship is rarely, if ever used for this reason. Give it *something*!
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.10.18 18:09:00 -
[942]
Unsticked? Really? ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Kariva
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Posted - 2009.10.18 19:57:00 -
[943]
Originally by: Stealthbug Edited by: Stealthbug on 10/10/2009 22:12:55 Edited by: Stealthbug on 10/10/2009 22:11:33
Originally by: elitatwo Blah blah blah blah blah blah
Um......... I believe this is what he meant: Translation: To my Caldari brothers-in-arms, I find that the disadvantages that CCP has inflicted on us are absurd. Many of the other races, such as Gallente or Amarr have received many powerful abilities while Caldari have been left to the slaughter. For example: the Gallente are known for their excellent performance on the battlefield such as their micro warp drive bonuses or their superb damage output from their turrets. This damage can also bee seen from the Amarrian ships, or even Minmatar, which are famous for their speed tanking abilities. Meanwhile, Caldari ships are rather slow, asymmetrical, that boast the ability to use electronic counter measures, or ECM, on several ships to extend their already short lifetimes slightly. Here is an example: A year ago I had a most unfortunate encounter with a small group of Vagabonds, accompanied by an Amarrian assault cruiser of which the name escapes me. The Vagabonds were unable to touch my shields, however they were able to run away from my missiles, disallowing me to deal very much damage at all! I ended up firing my missiles at the Amarrian ship only to see my comically weak missiles doing 61 damage! Amarr is known for their armor tanking, and hence should be the best. I believe this is the case for Caldari as well, they should be the best at shield tanking. A cruise missile should be able to do a significant amount of damage to a stationary Amarrian shipÆs shields. However, this was not the case that day. Are you feeling ok CCP? Have you ever experienced these ships that you have created? Or for that matter, has any game designer selected Gallente, Amarr, or Minmatar simply because Caldari is not worth the days of reading skill books? I noticed a fatal flaw in shields. I question how an elite cruiser could deal greater damage than a battleship. (noting this is only one race) Lets take a quick look at Amarr, shall we? They obviously are equipped with their signature laser turrets, which do thermal damage along with electromagnetic (hereinafter EM) damage. Noting Caldari should be the greatest ôshield tankersö, I noticed that they have a base EM resistance of zero (0) percent! This, while other races have large resistances, even while armor tankers have no reliance on their shields? Excuse me? I must also comment that the wonderful standard missile launchers need to be re looked at, or better yet, remove them from the game itself. Perhaps lower the powergrid and CPU usages for assault launchers to the requirements of standard launchers; perhaps rename them, and make them more usable. As for the infamous rockets, I recall data that stated ôNot really intended as a primary weapon but rather cheap as a supplementary weaponàö but a supplement to what, exactly? Did any developers ever equip these rather comical ..
And. What did you think CCP with those changes says to those 25% or more player base fuc. you we will do it our own way. Other 3 races are whining about ubber power missiles. insta jaming falcon, uber shield tank caldari. So what they do? they nerf 1 race to satisfy the whines from other 3... speed nerf, missile nerf, and now the passive shield cnr nerf. If it goes this way i think i gona quit this game... Quote: CCP navy tier 2 battleships actually receive little and disparate boost to their intended role(s). The following changes are aimed to fix this. General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
+50% to passive recharge rate in CCP words means little and disparate........
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.10.19 00:42:00 -
[944]
CCP just hates Caldari.
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.19 06:56:00 -
[945]
caldari are easier to train, the drone bonus to the factional ones means u train racial drone skills eas enough
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Thieving Monkey
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Posted - 2009.10.19 09:04:00 -
[946]
Many thanks to all the hard work the devs have been putting in. The Fleet Phoon in particular has me salivating, dreaming of the day when I will own one. I could not be more impressed with how CCP have used player feedback to make the lead up to dominion so exciting. I'm almost wetting myself. I'll have to remedy that momentarily.
I must ask one thing though, and I have noticed a few others commenting about the same issue: the Typhoon bonuses need revisiting. It's a powerful and versatile ship, so maybe give it two bonuses that mirror that. One to power (such as the existing damage bonuses) and one bonus to versatility (such as a velocity, agility or scanres bonus). I can understand that the loss of the projectile RoF bonus will result in less ship fitting versatility ... but really? I feel that the torps are what makes a phoon versatile to fly, while ACs are a more romantic weapon (don't ask - I'm having a weird morning) they just don't do the job the way missiles do.
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Stealthbug
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Posted - 2009.10.19 12:12:00 -
[947]
Edited by: Stealthbug on 19/10/2009 12:12:32
Originally by: Thieving Monkey ACs are a more romantic weapon[/quote
Missiles just have that... strength. That sort of power behind them that gives them personality. Like a force of justice.
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.19 13:14:00 -
[948]
i think a new weapon needs adding like a 5th weapon group - perhaps it could come from research into the sleeper technology it would add and tnak dps and whatnot. An idea that would allow new subfactions
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Shinta Kobi
Minmatar Gun Metal Priests The Makhai
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Posted - 2009.10.19 16:30:00 -
[949]
Originally by: Sunbird Huy The world you live in is an interesting and lively little place...
Now now Sun, everyone has the right to dream, eh? =P
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Villian
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Posted - 2009.10.19 17:24:00 -
[950]
I am aware this is an old subject, but I would like to bring to attention that the range bonus from the apoc is 7.5% which is not in line with the 10% range bonus of the rokh. Please consider increasing the racial battleship bonus of the navy apoc to 10%, if not the apoc in general.
Thank you for taking the time to review my request.
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Sunbird Huy
Caldari WEPRA CORP Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.10.19 23:29:00 -
[951]
Originally by: Shinta Kobi
Originally by: Sunbird Huy The world you live in is an interesting and lively little place...
Now now Sun, everyone has the right to dream, eh? =P
YOU STALKER! :D I was saying that the fits without a speed mod and a point are either pointless or just sad. Unless your gang is properly organized to have dedicated tacklers that know how to maintain the tackle long enough for target to die(unlike 2 of us shinta hehehehe)
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Zoloft Rx
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Posted - 2009.10.20 01:07:00 -
[952]
Thorax Navy Issue ..er deimos.. I mean.. umm
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Daniel Jackson
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.10.20 06:05:00 -
[953]
heyy sun how you doign lol ___
Sigs removed. Please resize sig to 400 x 120 and a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Please note, only one image per sig - Mitnal |
EveFairy0
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Posted - 2009.10.20 07:13:00 -
[954]
Seven guns on fleet tempy got me excited. Then it went full on armor tanking and I was 'meh'. Then you removed the seventh gun and I gave up. (Props tho for scrapping the "versatile tank" -idea, as it'll never work. Shield tank and/or 7th gun would prolly make me like it again. Tho now thinking about it there's a few shield tanking minmatar ships already..)
Phoon changes sound just like it should be, 5/5 gives it fitting versatility and lots of fun offensive options. Hope it'll keep this way, cheers.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.10.20 10:33:00 -
[955]
Originally by: Olga Chukarin
Originally by: Miriiah And 300 dps?
Thats what the gankship I'm fleeted with is for. Besides, if you dont need 1000 tank, you can swap 3 of the SPR's for gyro twos (or republic fleets), and you will have a ship that can outgank all other minnie battleships, and still be able to tank most L4's - including the AE bonus room.
[Maelstrom, Idiottank] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
There you go, 1/10th the price
990 dps omni
Theres a big problem with that setup. It is whats known as an 'EFT setup'. Yes if you bang it into EFT with all level 5 you can get a cap stable 990 omni-tank. Unfortunatly NOONE ingame has all level 5 skills! The fit is so tight on cap that slightest deviation from all level 5 and you are lucky to get a couple of minutes of cap out of it!
With my fleet tempest the only thing you lose with less than all level 5 skills is tank, not cap.
Plus you have naff all cpu left, you cant even fit a rack of 1200 T2's, let alone 1400's.
funny, because I have all the relevant skill (for this ship and fitting) at 5.. and I am not even a really high SP character, barely 50M sp. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.10.20 12:31:00 -
[956]
i think ccp pretty well has slotted things in, if a particular ship is rubbish players wont use it thats when u train it wait for next patch and watch theat useless ship get buffed above all else - tahts the way ccp works , always avoid the most popular
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Kariva
|
Posted - 2009.10.20 16:04:00 -
[957]
Quote: 3. Navy battleships: we first boosted tier 2 navy battleships to justify their price tag, which means increasing their versatility a bit with extra fittings, drone bay and maneuverability when necessary.
Quote: * Q: Why nerfing Navy Battleship shield recharge rate? o A: We estimate keeping the current Tranquility shield recharge rate would make them imbalanced in light of the new changes, especially for the Dominix and Scorpion Navy Issue. While passive shield tanking is supposed to be possible with some ships with great efficiency (Drake, Rattlesnake...), navy battleships are not part of the lot.
Why to hell are you comparing a T2 navy BS to a new T1 navy and you are saying that there is inbalance?.Change the new one not the old one. Comparing CNR passive shield recharge rate of 25 hp/s to the Drake 220 hp/s just stupid !!! Who works at balancing list do you have an monkey there that turns the wheel .....
And Why didn't you wrote in blog that nice -50% it was to big number for you...
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Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.10.20 23:02:00 -
[958]
More ship selection, more variety.
It seams that some dont want more selection and more variety. Could solve this by just not giving them the new toys to play with. All the complaints about this/that ship.
Different ships have different abilities and will often be tweaked into new roles. trying to fit old roles into new ships will always be lacking.
Eg the passive shield tanking battleships were never intended, yet giving battleships like the faction mega/apoc the 4 mids, 8 lows originally gave them a very good passive shield tank. Many players had 'too much experience' to even notice how strong such ships could tank passively. The new slower shield regen will address this issue.
For all the talk, can fly any race of ships effectively. Each race has advantages in some circumstances so in that there is already some balance. I myself use the passive shield tanking on a battleship in some circumstances, and the changes will reduce this - do I think its bad? I thought it was over powered tanking anyway. If one feels having a new ship choice is bad, just dont buy it - problem solved. For the rest of us, more ships and more choices is always good.
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:55:00 -
[959]
CN Hoobkill is chronically short on CPU, fitting anything even with rockets .
I would advise adding 50-70 extra CPU to allow utilisation of it's slots which is technically 1 less than all the other Navy Frigs (no utility highslot) +/- the same damage potencial ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Charego
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Posted - 2009.10.23 01:14:00 -
[960]
No word on Nightmare?
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Sol ExAstris
|
Posted - 2009.10.23 05:31:00 -
[961]
Originally by: EveFairy0 Seven guns on fleet tempy got me excited.
Agreed, I can't find a use for it without that 7th turret or increased projectile bonuses.
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Dannerkongen
Lootex
|
Posted - 2009.10.23 09:46:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Aralieus Edited by: Aralieus on 04/09/2009 19:07:39 May we plz get links to see what the tier 1 Facton battleships look like
u should try dl'ing the sing client! we have been flying around in the new ships for over a month now on testserver :)
serious fun
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Nerrevarn
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Posted - 2009.10.23 14:05:00 -
[963]
Lol. Tempest Fleet Issue bought for over 400m for mission purposes only, fitted with shield tanking stuff worth around 2b. Only to get know that CCP plans to swap a middle slot for low one, not mentioning the 1k cut from shield HP due to swap. Awesome changes guys, really. Please do similar swaps for other races' BSs. Lots of fun granted.
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Retrilia Moskari
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Posted - 2009.10.24 07:17:00 -
[964]
What I want to know, is if ALL pirate faction ships got full overhauls, why were the Empire Faction Cruisers Omitted from the changes while the the empire faction frigates and battleships received overhauls.
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Deltaprimus
Shadow Legion.
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Posted - 2009.10.24 19:44:00 -
[965]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
LOL
want to make yet another caldari ship useless then? Sell up ya navy issues guys go get rattlers! CNR is obsolete... Caldari apparently arent allowed to be good at mission running much now either... How long till you nerf the drake ccp? -------------------------
(Join the Shadow) |
Hortoken Wolfbrother
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.24 20:57:00 -
[966]
Edited by: Hortoken Wolfbrother on 24/10/2009 20:58:11 As a minmatar pilot completely spec'd in shields heavily (all bs flying related shield skills 5), and completely devoid of any armor tanking skills, CCPs continued drift towards armor tanking all minmatar ships is annoying.
First, the fleet stabber becoming an armor tanker, then the phoon made armor tank, now my tempest fleet issue being made armor tank. We already have enough to deal with in how much shield tanks suck on bs compared to armor in pvp (Buffers > Active), and it seems like they just want to knee this idea in the crotch left and right.
Whats so wrong with making the Typhoon armor and versatile 5/5.. 6/6 on fleet version, and making the tempest a fast hitting shield tank ship. They talk about letting minmatar being versatile and flexible all the time, when in reality our only versatility is at how much we suck.
At every tier, would it be so hard to give us a armor/shield option between the two ships, minmatar pulls this off well at the smaller ships (Hurricane armor/cyclone shield; Vagabond shield/Munin armor(balls to the wall shields?); Typhoon armor/tempest shield), but over time it seems ccp has drifted away from this versatility... As a long time dedicated minmatar pilot, it really sucks to see our race lose its way and just become more like everyone else, just more terrible.
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ZiggyMeister
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.25 23:32:00 -
[967]
Is it me or CCP Ytterbium says on the Dev Blog that the Fleet Tempest is getting a swap from 6 med / 6 lows to 5 med / 7 lows, but then here on the forum it's 6 med / 6 lows to 5 med / 6 lows ???
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium However, we feel the current slot changes (5 med/ 7 lows) and the shield/armor hitpoint swap will help more as the almost mandatory PvP med slot equipment would inevitably conflict with a shield tank.
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Tempest Fleet Issue:
ò New slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 6 low slots, 7 turrets, 4 launchers ò Fittings: 577 CPU, 17050 powergrid ò Dronebay increased by 25m3, bandwidth unchanged ò Speed: +10% max velocity and agility increased by 10%
So, what's the real deal? I don't see any updated correction on his post!
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Enduros
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.10.27 14:36:00 -
[968]
Navy scorp looks like an exploration ship if you ask me. Enough dps to kill stuff, solid tank and comes with some free mids for the scanners. What seems to be the problem here? - If you find the post above offensive feel free to feel offended. |
Olga Chukarin
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:21:00 -
[969]
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer
For all the talk, can fly any race of ships effectively. Each race has advantages in some circumstances so in that there is already some balance. I myself use the passive shield tanking on a battleship in some circumstances, and the changes will reduce this - do I think its bad? I thought it was over powered tanking anyway. If one feels having a new ship choice is bad, just dont buy it - problem solved. For the rest of us, more ships and more choices is always good.
No, that IS the biggest problem. Us that have *ALREADY* spent hundreds of millions of isks on a rigged passive tanked faction BS.
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Redbull Snorter
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Posted - 2009.10.27 18:28:00 -
[970]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Olga Chukarin
Theres a big problem with that setup. It is whats known as an 'EFT setup'. Yes if you bang it into EFT with all level 5 you can get a cap stable 990 omni-tank. Unfortunatly NOONE ingame has all level 5 skills! The fit is so tight on cap that slightest deviation from all level 5 and you are lucky to get a couple of minutes of cap out of it!
With my fleet tempest the only thing you lose with less than all level 5 skills is tank, not cap.
Plus you have naff all cpu left, you cant even fit a rack of 1200 T2's, let alone 1400's.
funny, because I have all the relevant skill (for this ship and fitting) at 5.. and I am not even a really high SP character, barely 50M sp.
LoL you just shot yourself in the foot! All relevant skills at FIVE????? FIFTY MILLION skill points?????
How can you say you are 'not really high SP' with them skills, when for that number of SP you must have been playing 3+ years, making you an super-ultra-veteran player. Very highly skilled character.
By 'not very skilled' Id be talking about the people that can tank level 4's in caldari navy ravens with under 5 million skill points... And you are saying you need FIFTY to use the minmatar equivilant?
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NueroStorm
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Posted - 2009.10.28 21:59:00 -
[971]
Love the NEW Navy ships, where's the Battlecruiser class? you guys holding out on BCs for some reason ... no faction based on that class?
One thing though the Slicer is not a scanning boat they make covert ops ships for that, it deserves the speed promised in the beginning stop screwing with the boosts... nerfing before even get there bites.
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Zief
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Posted - 2009.10.31 04:12:00 -
[972]
Republic Fleet Hurricane, Another low slot, more grid, more armor, more cpu, more turrets, bigger drone bay
And begin drooling in 3..... 2...... 1......
Dunno what role they'd fill other than "badass" though. Caldari Navy Drake? Sustainable passive shield tank of 1000dps with 190,000 ehp?
Navy Myrmidon. Only Battlecruiser capable of fielding fighters
Amarr Navy Harbinger. Comes with a large red "I win" button on the dashboard which instantly pops and pods any nearby ships, only downside is it's top speed is 15m/s. OH, and it has the Eom paint scheme.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.31 04:27:00 -
[973]
im thinking more of a additional 5% to command link modules and yes CCP are weak not to have a BC class of pirate and empire factional ships same applies to destroyers. But then again like verything else they are big on hype but when it boils down to it ship types are very focused, 119 total level 4 missions which really they should have 1000 variants at least but dont because there is no variance in pvp or pve content its bland like 7 planet types. Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.31 23:08:00 -
[974]
*wades in tears*
Minmatar changes are awesome.
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Kaya Divine
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.01 08:41:00 -
[975]
One more launcher for scorpion(7) and leave it in FW LP stores...Or let it remain this way and move those ships in regular LP stores.
Because its just matter of time when new BSs will from 1b come down to 100m...sooner and it will be better for more players.
Shoot your shot... |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.01 09:17:00 -
[976]
so more alts will do fw courier missions and bring price down 200-240m i think is where the price will end up settling Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Vikura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.01 11:08:00 -
[977]
Edited by: Vikura on 01/11/2009 11:14:45
Originally by: Olga Chukarin
Theres a big problem with that setup. It is whats known as an 'EFT setup'. Yes if you bang it into EFT with all level 5 you can get a cap stable 990 omni-tank. Unfortunatly NOONE ingame has all level 5 skills!
Here here, have a cookie!
Electronics 5 (256k sp) Engineering 5 (256k sp)
Energy Grid Upgrades 5 (2x 256k sp) Energy Sys Operation 5 (256k sp) Energy Managment 5 (3x 256k sp)
Shield Upgrades 5 (2x 256k sp) Shield Managment 5 (3x 256k sp) Shield Compensation 5 (2x 256k sp) Shield Operation 5 (256k sp) TSM 4 (181k sp)
Total of 4021k or 4mil 21k SP needed to have all 5 for that tank. Or little over 6mil SP if you want to include the Mael's shield boost bonus in as well. Then add 4-5 mil more in gunnery/spaceship command (for AWU 5, Min BS 5 etc).
So you need around 8-10 mil SP to have that fitting for "ALL 5 EFT-Warrioring", now how unrealistic is that
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NuckenFutz
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Posted - 2009.11.03 15:52:00 -
[978]
Im not going to lie i would really like to see the shield recharge time of the Navy Domi be less then 3290. It would be nice to see since the Domi is a possibility for a passive shield tank that the navy domi do it at lease a tiny bit better.
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Mechakucha Kusari
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.03 17:11:00 -
[979]
Looking rather forward to seeing these become available and hopefully in the normal LP stores, too. Kind of disappointed that the Typhoon Fleet Issue lost the 5 turret/5 missile bay slot, and that it has gone back to the standard 4/4 split. Also a shame that the Tempest Fleet Issue went from 8/6/6 in slots to 8/5/6 . Sigh...
Again, hoping that projectiles will get a little boost along the same lines as the Energy Turrets were given.
Really looking forward to the new Dominix Navy Issue and Navy Scorpion Issue. The Navy versions of the Armageddon and Apocalypse look like they'll be damn nasty. Thanks for the increase in drone bay on the Megathron Navy Issue. Diplomacy hiding in plain sight... |
darkmancer
|
Posted - 2009.11.03 21:49:00 -
[980]
Is it me or is the Hookbill stupidly hard to fit? ie impossible at least with standard missile launchers.
I'm not talking about a t2 fit either even with naff fitting-lite named items I still can't get anything sensible out of it (mind you thats standard with Caldari missile frigs it seems).
Rest of the changes seem nice though (omg a Caldari battleship that can tackle, has more than 100dps, and not have awful tank!!! It's the end of eve). --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
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Aralis
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.04 03:54:00 -
[981]
No comment on the actual ships I leave it to experts in the field. (I welcome more Navy ships on general principle.)
But why are the Amarrian Navy ships getting non Amarrian colours? Please could we keep Amarrian ships gold as they deserve! :)
Thank you.
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Fanji
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Posted - 2009.11.05 02:34:00 -
[982]
thank you ccp for killing the fleet tempest.
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Nova Satar
Heroes.
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Posted - 2009.11.06 11:47:00 -
[983]
Originally by: kessah
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Typhoon:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Typhoon Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/8)
Tempest Fleet Issue:
òSlot layout: 7th turret slot removed for a 7th low-slot (for a total of 6/4 turrets/launchers, 8/5/7) òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 10431 armor and 9316 shields)
Id like to see the Phoons rof bonus to large projectiles replaced with a 10% less factor for sig on torpedos skill or something to that effect tested. It would be nice to have a another dedicated 2nd missle orientated battleship.
a single dmg bonused armour tanked ship for projectiles just makes them so meh.
very good idea. it needs more cpu too.
this is by far the most SP intensive Ship in game comparative to it's class. So please don;t give it pointless bonuses aswell!
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.11.06 13:51:00 -
[984]
Originally by: darkmancer Is it me or is the Hookbill stupidly hard to fit? ie impossible at least with standard missile launchers.
I'm not talking about a t2 fit either even with naff fitting-lite named items I still can't get anything sensible out of it (mind you thats standard with Caldari missile frigs it seems).
It's not just you.
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Hibernator X
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Posted - 2009.11.10 17:58:00 -
[985]
Originally by: Aralis No comment on the actual ships I leave it to experts in the field. (I welcome more Navy ships on general principle.)
But why are the Amarrian Navy ships getting non Amarrian colours? Please could we keep Amarrian ships gold as they deserve! :)
Thank you.
they also wear black very well
<----Curse <----Malediction <----Vengeance
although maybe ccp should look at these bottom 2 ships while their at it.
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Mord3th
Minmatar Mashadar Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.10 18:31:00 -
[986]
Edited by: Mord3th on 10/11/2009 18:32:59 While we are "fixing" things, how about fix the cargo bay of the Navy Caracal. 250m3 cargo bay with 6 launchers..... The base Caracal only has 5 launchers, yet it has a 450m3 cargo bay.
Otherwise, I like that changes I have seen so far.
kthxbai I have flown with the best. Can you say the same? |
Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:50:00 -
[987]
Quote: the Tempest and the Fleet Tempest need a bit of work. For example, the Navy Megathron and Navy Apoc not just compare reasonably well with there pirate variants but are complementary, where as the Macherial is just superior to the Fleet Tempest in every way conceivable in every thing the fleet tempest is can do to do. Before you mention cost, the Fleet Phoon would probably do armour tanking better, and another races navy battleship better still.
Also, Navy frigs arn't seeded? ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Zerothi
Gallente The Galaxy Hitchikers Guild
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:23:00 -
[988]
i like the addon for the new navy issue ships , and the upgrades they are making to them guess my only beef about teh new ships is the game eve is going a direction to force the pilots to go into the malitia to get them, wish like the others navy issue ships they were aviable in reg lp stores, why is every game now forcing players to join X group to grind out X thing, when i first played eve i loved teh fact due to my busy life i can play eve casual my own time no having to relie on X group to get things done in game, now if i want to get this new navy ships i need to be forced to play part of game i am not interested, just my take on ther ship
Like the new ships and changes, HAte the forced change the pilots wiull have to make to get them
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:29:00 -
[989]
Would probably be easy to just buy them on the market,
Also, no one's forcing you to fly them, and if you insist on flying expensive ships, pirate ships are much better and much more harder to get. ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
Imnotded
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:10:00 -
[990]
Edited by: Imnotded on 16/11/2009 17:16:18
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:20:00 -
[991]
Quote: We would also like to thank every one involved in the testing and constructive feedback process so far, as it has proved to be quite invaluable during the first design process. Keep it coming!
Ok...
I'm just going to leave this link to what the Fleet Tempest should be here, you don't have to look at it or comment on it unless you think your really sure, ok? ____ Domination Balance (Or how we fix the Tempest) |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:27:00 -
[992]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
I'm just going to leave this link to what the Fleet Tempest should be here, you don't have to look at it or comment on it unless you think your really sure, ok?
Now that's a fleet pest worth flying!
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AshGear
Minmatar British Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.18 23:17:00 -
[993]
Plz sticky this thread mods! plz..
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clixor
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Posted - 2009.11.19 13:08:00 -
[994]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Quote: We would also like to thank every one involved in the testing and constructive feedback process so far, as it has proved to be quite invaluable during the first design process. Keep it coming!
Ok...
I'm just going to leave this link to what the Fleet Tempest should be here, you don't have to look at it or comment on it unless you think your really sure, ok?
well. it's better then the suggested setup but 8/7/5 or 8/6/6 doesnt makes much difference to me. 5 midslots however are problematic.
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Lambeau Field
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Posted - 2009.11.19 15:59:00 -
[995]
So if all navy BS are going to a shield recharge of 3390s then I can say goodbye to my passive tanking Navy Raven.
This Sucks
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.19 16:30:00 -
[996]
Edited by: Minmatar citizen4561451 on 19/11/2009 16:30:28
Originally by: Lambeau Field So if all navy BS are going to a shield recharge of 3390s then I can say goodbye to my passive tanking Navy Raven.
This Sucks
if you're passive tanking ANY raven, you're an idiot.
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Lambeau Field
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Posted - 2009.11.19 17:19:00 -
[997]
i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day and have a peak shield rate of 293 hp/s
[Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Invulnerability Field II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile XT-9000 Cruise Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I
Hammerhead II x1 Hammerhead II x1 Hornet II x1 Ogre I x1 Ogre I x1
so passive tanking a Navy raven was a good thing
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.11.19 17:44:00 -
[998]
What a lolfit.
Originally by: Lambeau Field i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day
Important bit highlighted. Without any BCS, a mission probably would take you "all day". The sooner that Shield Power Relays are deleted from the game, along with any ship that has them fitted, the better.
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.11.19 17:47:00 -
[999]
Edited by: Mr Opinions on 19/11/2009 17:48:35
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Quote: We would also like to thank every one involved in the testing and constructive feedback process so far, as it has proved to be quite invaluable during the first design process. Keep it coming!
Ok...
I'm just going to leave this link to what the Fleet Tempest should be here, you don't have to look at it or comment on it unless you think your really sure, ok?
That would be a sweet ship to fly with that layout. Another good example of what an tempest fleet with 8/7/5 slot layout could achieve.
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Killmeded
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:08:00 -
[1000]
Originally by: Gypsio III What a lolfit.
Originally by: Lambeau Field i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day
Important bit highlighted. Without any BCS, a mission probably would take you "all day". The sooner that Shield Power Relays are deleted from the game, along with any ship that has them fitted, the better.
IT is balance -- If you want more dps u sacrfice tank -- If you dont like the SPR dont use them -- spr kill your cap so they are only useful on passive ships
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Lambeau Field
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:15:00 -
[1001]
Why so much hostility of a passive shield Navy Raven and lvl 4 donÆt take that long my drones do most of the killing I have fitted a tractor beam and salvager so I salvage as I go not bad. But that will all be over 2nd of Dec
I am starting to dislike CCP
Originally by: Killmeded
Originally by: Gypsio III What a lolfit.
Originally by: Lambeau Field i can get 875 Defence and do lvl 4 missions all day
Important bit highlighted. Without any BCS, a mission probably would take you "all day". The sooner that Shield Power Relays are deleted from the game, along with any ship that has them fitted, the better.
IT is balance -- If you want more dps u sacrfice tank -- If you dont like the SPR dont use them -- spr kill your cap so they are only useful on passive ships
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.19 19:09:00 -
[1002]
I have always fought the way they would nerf the shield recharges of battleships that would otherwise still tank less than a drake/myrmiddon in a passive re-charge fit a little perculuar...
Not that the CCP's balance team follows much logic these days. ____ Minmatar ship fixes... |
Killmeded
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 22:06:00 -
[1003]
Originally by: Lambeau Field Why so much hostility of a passive shield Navy Raven and lvl 4 donÆt take that long my drones do most of the killing I have fitted a tractor beam and salvager so I salvage as I go not bad. But that will all be over 2nd of Dec
I wasn't being hostile -- I like the SPR -- I was saying that there is always a tradeoff in this game -- active vs passive -- def vs dps --- Thats just the way it is -- The best I can fly is far is my drake and i still have to balance how fast I kill them vs if I survive being scrambled and swarmed
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Malcorian Vandsteidt
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Posted - 2009.11.20 19:17:00 -
[1004]
Something I think CCP should also take a look at, Which I think personaly should have ben added with this expeansion since it deals with faction ships is:
1. Khanid Navies LP Store
Here's a Faction in It's own right which Combines Caldari and Amarr Having Both Missiles and armor items for rewards, However to what do we attach said components, There are Currently No Faction navy ships in game which armor tank yet are Primarily Missile based as the Khanids Navy is.
** CCP should add Khanid Navy Faction ships into Game which Armor tank Primarily, and Specifically use Missiles.
So that this LP store actually has a use and purpose beyond 2nd Generation Amarr Navy and Caldari Navy items. Why run Khanid Navy Missions when the Larger Faction Amarr and Caldari have so much more to offer? Seems like a Huge waste to me.
2. Interbus.
Strangely, This Faction has missions, Yet all of its agents are Based in Stations which do not belong to Interbus, And the one single system Interbus has soved, Has no stations in it.
In addition, this Corporation has No stations which it Owns Period, and No LP store to spend the LP points at. So I ask Myself, why does this Corp even Offer Missions if there is no place to spend it's LP?
Several other issues arise like the above, which have been around for a very long time, why these havn't been fixed or pointed out before I am unsure, maybe no one noticed or maybe they have. Either way, These are issues that should be looked at and Fixed.
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Malcorian Vandsteidt
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Posted - 2009.11.20 19:42:00 -
[1005]
Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 19:43:18 Continued>>>
The Shield boosters currently available on the market for reasonably decent prices are inadiquate in every way due to there insane cap usage. And anything below an X-large Booster is useless for Battleships in level 4 missions as your defense at its highest is 400-500.
With the X- large being so Cap dependent it is nigh impossible to fit the ship properly. Unless you have Multiple focused level 5 skills. (By Multiple I mean Every single shield and engineering skill at 5 + Implants and rigs). And even then your still not cap stable no matter how you fit your ship (And still have a decent tank and DPS). And relitively speaking even the non complex Boosters X- large or not, Do not give you any type of decent tank. 600-800 defense at most.
The only exception to this problem are the Complex Gist type x X-large Shield boosters, Which cost around 1-3 Billion ISK a piece. Obviously not something the average player can Afford. Or afford to loose.
I think a serious look at the above modules should also be taken a look at and rebalanced to support better cap ussage and there for a better Defense.
"Sometimes the ship isn't the issue, Some times, Its the modules required to make the ship fly halfway Decent..)
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.11.20 20:43:00 -
[1006]
Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 20/11/2009 20:44:14 Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 20/11/2009 20:43:40 1000th post Snipa
Oh, on topic: Uh, the New Apoc Navy Issue is AWESOME
EDIT: Dammit! NO errrgh, 1001th
DOUBLE EDIT: What a waste of a 1000th post Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
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Xolido
Minmatar JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:35:00 -
[1007]
Typhoon Fleet Issue
Damn i'm gonna need one off those..
And Plzzzz dont make that Ugly Mold Green color.. plzz try to be alittle creative..
Would be Nice to see it like the Nomad layout with the yellow/green light's "Window's"
Thx ccp for not being totally Caldari capitalist
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:23:00 -
[1008]
So, the Phoon is practically perfect... Now time for some Tempest/Fleet Tempest loving... ____ *New* - Tempest/Maelstrom |
waltari
Caldari Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.11.26 11:59:00 -
[1009]
Originally by: elitatwo
A lot has been said about all the issues and nerfs we got in the last years, starting with the RMR extension. Since then all caldari ships were nerfed beyond any usefullness for pvp and all other races were buffed to total domination. For the gallente as THE overwftpwn overkill pvp race with all its mwd buffs or teh suparrrr wtfpwn turret and ubaaarr armor tanking ships, same for amarr and teh overkill always speed tanking minmatar ships. You left us with slow moving, unequal looking ships with the possibiliy to ecm a few before we get grilled. A little example: A year ago I had an unpleasent encounter with a gang of 4 Vagas and an amarr assault cruiser (cant remember). My base Raven fits: 6x cruise II / Heavy Dim Nos / SB or RR 1x LSB II / 1x boost amp II / defence mods 3x PDU II / 2x BCU II Now the Vaga's didn't do any dmg at all, so they ran off with there ubaarr speed mwd's and I started to fire on the amarr assoult cruiser. Imagine a battleship with the big caldari nerf missile launchers hammering 6x cruise missiles every 6.8 seconds on a non moving cruiser (grouped together), which resulted in an enormouse amount of 61 dmg in total on teh shields of an amarr elite cruiser is something WAAAAYYYYY beyond funny! As a race amarr should be THEE armor tankers of teh universe and the caldari should be THEE shield tankers of teh universe there is something very wrong here, isnt it?? A cruise missile with 2x BCU II has a base dmg of like 410hp (guessed) and hits a NON MOVING target with like 61hp.. What is wrong with you? Are you even tried to fly caldari ever?? Or is ANY game designer gallente/amarr/minmatar because caldari arent worth the skilltime AT ALL? Given teh base resistance of tech1 caldari ships - which are supposed to be shield tankers I see some deficite to shields in general. How can it be that an elite cruise is outgunning a battleship (yeah well only one race in peticular here). Now let's have a look on what amarr ships have as primary weapon system: Lasoorrrr guns, small, medium, large and super x-large Lasoorrrr guns, which do Thermal and EM dmg. Now seeing caldari as THEE shield tankers of teh universe, they get a total base EM shield resist of ZERO %. Now lets have a look at some other race' ships base resist and oh waaait, whats that? You get a base resist to ALL dmg types big time, in regard to teh armor tankers which do nooo way rely on shields. Besides that I repeat that teh supaarr standard missile launcher as a primary weapon system need a complete overhaul to be in teh line with other weapon system or even better: Take it out for gods sake! Lower PG and CPU usage for teh assult launchers to that of the standard launchers, rename them and we would get a primary weapon system that maybe usefull. As for rockets, I recall somewhat of teh information as it states: "Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system..." - but to what??? Did any of you Dev's ever fitted these lmao launchers? Teh only thing they do might be to scare someone of by its sound, compared to its damage, if its doing dmg at all. Now let's go back to teh other weapon systems in the game. We have: Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large hybrid turrets and blasters; Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large projectile artillery and somewhat guns; Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large lasooorrr gun in all flavours and as the guns before in short and long-range flavor; and look what we have here to counter: "Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system." Rocket launchers; standard useless launchers; assault launchers, which cant be uses by assault ships; supaarr heavy to fit at all heavy assault launchers with crap ammo missiles for close range; heavy missiles that might hit something that isnt moving, like an afk-miner, but decent dmg; cruiser missiles and torpedos.
Its sad but hes completely right.
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Bidoc
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Posted - 2009.11.26 12:28:00 -
[1010]
Edited by: Bidoc on 26/11/2009 12:31:54 Aw man! You nerfed my FIretail!
I still haven't found the changes for Scythe Fleet Issue.
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Pwnage Star
|
Posted - 2009.11.26 12:31:00 -
[1011]
tempest
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EoH253
|
Posted - 2009.11.26 22:13:00 -
[1012]
Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36 Honestly, I think people are going way over the top on all the requested changes to The Fleet Tempest and Navy Apoc. What I see wrong with this argument is the repeated comparison to their T1 variants and cross race comparisons as well.
Amarr: Why would you need another Pulse / Buffer ship of obnoxiousness when you have the Abaddon already? I can tell you now, no other race can beat that ship for a full out buffer setup. Perhaps beat it in either damage, range, or buffer specifically, but not all three. I can't get anything Gallente to buffer well enough to go toe to toe with an Abaddon, even with an advantage in close range DPS, and that's IF I start close. Combine that with the fact that there are no implants for active armor tanking (to use perhaps a hype instead of a buffer ship), an Abaddon pilot with slaves can walk away comfortably from that fight.
Minmatar: Again I will make this argument. You want a shield tanker with more then 7 turrets? Use a freaking Maelstrom. I have seen setups that tank comfortably at the 2000 dps level, 3000 if overheated. If that isn't freaking unbalanced I don't know what is. A ship that can tank amazingly well, and is incredibly mobile because it uses shields and as a Minmatar ship, already has the best base speed of any tier 3 BS. And you are arguing that the loss of a midslot in the Tempest is bad?
This is the closest I've seen to balanced ships in awhile, honestly. I still think Gallente overall are getting the short end of the stick.
Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.
Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.
Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.
It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.
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Bonny Lee
Caldari The Guardian Agency Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:54:00 -
[1013]
Originally by: EoH253 Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36 Honestly, I think people are going way over the top on all the requested changes to The Fleet Tempest and Navy Apoc. What I see wrong with this argument is the repeated comparison to their T1 variants and cross race comparisons as well.
Amarr: Why would you need another Pulse / Buffer ship of obnoxiousness when you have the Abaddon already? I can tell you now, no other race can beat that ship for a full out buffer setup. Perhaps beat it in either damage, range, or buffer specifically, but not all three. I can't get anything Gallente to buffer well enough to go toe to toe with an Abaddon, even with an advantage in close range DPS, and that's IF I start close. Combine that with the fact that there are no implants for active armor tanking (to use perhaps a hype instead of a buffer ship), an Abaddon pilot with slaves can walk away comfortably from that fight.
Minmatar: Again I will make this argument. You want a shield tanker with more then 7 turrets? Use a freaking Maelstrom. I have seen setups that tank comfortably at the 2000 dps level, 3000 if overheated. If that isn't freaking unbalanced I don't know what is. A ship that can tank amazingly well, and is incredibly mobile because it uses shields and as a Minmatar ship, already has the best base speed of any tier 3 BS. And you are arguing that the loss of a midslot in the Tempest is bad?
This is the closest I've seen to balanced ships in awhile, honestly. I still think Gallente overall are getting the short end of the stick.
Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.
Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.
Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.
It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.
I dont see any Issues with Gallente beside there could be some little love to blasters.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.27 00:07:00 -
[1014]
Yes over the top on the tempest and apoc comparisons is funny to see. The arguemnts are based in failure to adapt to balance
Amarr = Perhaps a more specced pulse-beam ship with less buffer is needed. The buffer setup needs a nerf on the abaddon my opinion. The implants for active armour tanking are needed could be khandid based.
Minatar - shield tanking 7 turret ship should have some serious speed drawbacks. The overheat will give these ships and added bonus as well. The mobility is good. The base needs to be adjusted.
Dominix naval becomes a better tank version. good for wormhole space or RR fights. Perhaps its time for damage mods for drones. Factional one would work. So it will be role retained.
We are getting factional drones tho which like the named t2 drone region nes will offer dual damage situation useful for attacking certain enemies Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Triss Scaran
|
Posted - 2009.11.27 06:02:00 -
[1015]
Dont forget ur drone dps is lessly effected by target speed ( which u would easily fix with ur extra mid slot a web, scramble, caldari ship wont have either or both of em or they would hurt their already fking sucky shield tank) and target size. u were a caldari pilot as well. should have know WHY would u quit flying caldai ship in the first place. u making ur self be laughed at ( at least from all of my corp mates) by saying that gal ship has less damage and tanking ability than minmatar or even caldari. where s th fk is ur guns, dont tell me ur never fit ur gun on ur gal ship.
btw. i am really disappointed on ccp again at caldari shield tanking balance ( act of increase shield recharged time, and missile nerf in the past)
Originally by: EoH253 Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36 Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.
Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.
Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.
It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.
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Triss Scaran
|
Posted - 2009.11.27 06:08:00 -
[1016]
Oh my god. u guys r totally right, playing for 4 years, quit 2 times as caldari pilot. never wanted to go back to forum for the last 2 years and now i have to to log on just to saying that WT hell is wrong with those caldari designer, where r they now. have they ever fly their ship ut of mission to pvp. bring their newbie caldari char into lowsec for the first time.
Originally by: waltari
Originally by: elitatwo
A lot has been said about all the issues and nerfs we got in the last years, starting with the RMR extension. Since then all caldari ships were nerfed beyond any usefullness for pvp and all other races were buffed to total domination. For the gallente as THE overwftpwn overkill pvp race with all its mwd buffs or teh suparrrr wtfpwn turret and ubaaarr armor tanking ships, same for amarr and teh overkill always speed tanking minmatar ships. You left us with slow moving, unequal looking ships with the possibiliy to ecm a few before we get grilled. A little example: A year ago I had an unpleasent encounter with a gang of 4 Vagas and an amarr assault cruiser (cant remember). My base Raven fits: 6x cruise II / Heavy Dim Nos / SB or RR 1x LSB II / 1x boost amp II / defence mods 3x PDU II / 2x BCU II Now the Vaga's didn't do any dmg at all, so they ran off with there ubaarr speed mwd's and I started to fire on the amarr assoult cruiser. Imagine a battleship with the big caldari nerf missile launchers hammering 6x cruise missiles every 6.8 seconds on a non moving cruiser (grouped together), which resulted in an enormouse amount of 61 dmg in total on teh shields of an amarr elite cruiser is something WAAAAYYYYY beyond funny! As a race amarr should be THEE armor tankers of teh universe and the caldari should be THEE shield tankers of teh universe there is something very wrong here, isnt it?? A cruise missile with 2x BCU II has a base dmg of like 410hp (guessed) and hits a NON MOVING target with like 61hp.. What is wrong with you? Are you even tried to fly caldari ever?? Or is ANY game designer gallente/amarr/minmatar because caldari arent worth the skilltime AT ALL? Given teh base resistance of tech1 caldari ships - which are supposed to be shield tankers I see some deficite to shields in general. How can it be that an elite cruise is outgunning a battleship (yeah well only one race in peticular here). Now let's have a look on what amarr ships have as primary weapon system: Lasoorrrr guns, small, medium, large and super x-large Lasoorrrr guns, which do Thermal and EM dmg. Now seeing caldari as THEE shield tankers of teh universe, they get a total base EM shield resist of ZERO %. Now lets have a look at some other race' ships base resist and oh waaait, whats that? You get a base resist to ALL dmg types big time, in regard to teh armor tankers which do nooo way rely on shields. Besides that I repeat that teh supaarr standard missile launcher as a primary weapon system need a complete overhaul to be in teh line with other weapon system or even better: Take it out for gods sake! Lower PG and CPU usage for teh assult launchers to that of the standard launchers, rename them and we would get a primary weapon system that maybe usefull. As for rockets, I recall somewhat of teh information as it states: "Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system..." - but to what??? Did any of you Dev's ever fitted these lmao launchers? Teh only thing they do might be to scare someone of by its sound, compared to its damage, if its doing dmg at all. Now let's go back to teh other weapon systems in the game. We have: Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large hybrid turrets and blasters; Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large projectile artillery and somewhat guns; Small, medium, large and supaarrr x-large lasooorrr gun in all flavours and as the guns before in short and long-range ..............
Its
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Johndalar
|
Posted - 2009.11.27 07:44:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: EoH253 Edited by: EoH253 on 26/11/2009 22:16:36 Honestly, I think people are going way over the top on all the requested changes to The Fleet Tempest and Navy Apoc. What I see wrong with this argument is the repeated comparison to their T1 variants and cross race comparisons as well.
Amarr: Why would you need another Pulse / Buffer ship of obnoxiousness when you have the Abaddon already? I can tell you now, no other race can beat that ship for a full out buffer setup. Perhaps beat it in either damage, range, or buffer specifically, but not all three. I can't get anything Gallente to buffer well enough to go toe to toe with an Abaddon, even with an advantage in close range DPS, and that's IF I start close. Combine that with the fact that there are no implants for active armor tanking (to use perhaps a hype instead of a buffer ship), an Abaddon pilot with slaves can walk away comfortably from that fight.
Minmatar: Again I will make this argument. You want a shield tanker with more then 7 turrets? Use a freaking Maelstrom. I have seen setups that tank comfortably at the 2000 dps level, 3000 if overheated. If that isn't freaking unbalanced I don't know what is. A ship that can tank amazingly well, and is incredibly mobile because it uses shields and as a Minmatar ship, already has the best base speed of any tier 3 BS. And you are arguing that the loss of a midslot in the Tempest is bad?
This is the closest I've seen to balanced ships in awhile, honestly. I still think Gallente overall are getting the short end of the stick.
Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills. We are not helped by the fact that there is no damage mod for drones. The nautral damage bumps built into the hull is all we get. So now the Dominix Navy Issue is as tough as any other Tier 1 faction ship but still lacks the hitting power to take things apart. Combine that with the fact that Gallente CAN'T buffer as well as Amarr, or tank as well as some Caldari or Minmatar, and you have a very limited ship indeed.
Toss in the fact that drones are now given as offerings to the gate gun lords as tasty treats instead of actually serving a damage purpose, and things get even worse.
Minimtar pilots are being wronged are they? I think not. The projectile fix is in the works, and that seems to be more then enough of a balance. Meanwhile, Gallente pilots will continue to be walked over because we can do damage with blasters, and nothing else. We can other things, just not as well as anyone else.
It is time CCP decided to stop ignoring this problem after their massive over nerfs on Gallentian ships, and found a way to actually balance them in with the other three races.
Give me a Tempest fit that is not over shadowed by every other tech2 BS and if you can do something with the Fleet Pest that makes it worth the isk you must have access to some implants that no one else has. And don't even try saying mini''s are fixed with the Projectile Fix, lol, you know Nozh is the one doing it right..... he F-ed up caps, nerfed the Nag, and his 'Fix' for artys is Alpha but you can get more Alpha with arty on Amarr ships.... yeah great... long range ammo does less damage so Muninn is nerfed... but your right all that is more than enough to 'balance' minmatar.
Be careful what you wish for.... Nozh could be assigned to Galli 'balance' too
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2009.11.27 09:18:00 -
[1018]
Originally by: EoH253 Dominix Navy Issue: While the HP bumps are greatly welcomed, some increase in DPS would have been far better. It is a Drone ship that even with skills MAXXED, a flight of Ogre II's will be doing only 467 dps. I know, you might be thinking "thats effing amazing for drones, what are you complaining about?!" But with a Dominix, my drones arren't a damage suppliment, they are my primary means of doing damage. I think ANY other pilot would be up in arms, and be out for blood if their battery of 8 lasers or 6 missile launchers were only doing 467 dps at maxed skills.
You have six bonused turrets and the fittings to use them, you blithering fool.
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Mina Sebiestar
|
Posted - 2009.11.28 03:20:00 -
[1019]
tempest fleet issue = pathetic
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HeliosGal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.28 05:55:00 -
[1020]
Tempetst fleet issue = less than pathetic just modified Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.28 15:18:00 -
[1021]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Further changes.
Tempest:
òHitpoints: armor and shield values swapped (now has 6954 armor and 6211 shields)
Erm, ok why does the Tempest get more armor than a Megathron? It's not like Minmatar don't generally have more speed as an additional defensive attribute, while Gallente rely on being the second best armor tanks.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Mina Sebiestar
|
Posted - 2009.11.29 09:47:00 -
[1022]
u dont need to worry about tempest out tank anything...but yes if they do some changes to guns id prefer to tempest stay more shield base with 6/6 slot ratio and 6 guns(fleet issue ofc)
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milessana hax
|
Posted - 2009.11.29 21:44:00 -
[1023]
Originally by: MalVortex Geddon Navy and Scorpion navy seem overshadowed by their Tier 3 counterparts. Between the higher-base armor/shield and the resist bonus, these faction ships actually carry less real buffer than the Abaddon or Rokh. While the Navy Tier 1s do carry an extra low/mid on their primary tanking rack, and extra fitting, I don't see them coming out ahead. Any gains they do achieve will be completley overshadowed by their cost - which will be rather high given the FW LP only.
They need to do something more unique than "buffer laser" or "buffer missile"... These rolls frankly already exist. The extra drone space on the Armageddon is also somewhat wasted, given that it needs those 5x heavy drones for a large chunk of its damage. Directly boosting their hull bonuses would be preferable. Something between 6% to 7.5% ROF/level instead of 5%/level would at least bring something unique to these hulls besides easier fitting and more armor.
In a similar vein, I'm still unimpressed by the Apocalypse Navy. Its easy to fit, and can get some nice buffer... But so does the Abaddon. Its too expensive to snipe with (and does nothing unique in this regard over the T1 apoc anyways), and pulse lasers have no real use for the range bonus now that nano-cruisers are dead. Going from 15km to 21km on MF, and 45km to 60km on scorch, simply doesn't do much. The base ranges are already quite sufficient. Id really like to see the optimal range bonus either increased to 10%/level, or changed to a 7.5% tracking bonus a la the Redeemer. As it stands, the Apoc navy is yet another armor buffer amarr laser ship, with absolutely on new take on that roll. Better tracking, or great pulse laser range, would at least spice this up a bit. There are too many amarr battleships competing for the same combat niche.
When used as a noun, "roll" means a type of bread. Are they changing the ship models that much? Also, will there be different types of rolls, like sweet rolls for Gallente vs. dinner rolls for Caldari?
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Nova Satar
Heroes.
|
Posted - 2009.11.30 13:36:00 -
[1024]
so whats the deal with the STANDARD typhoon? are there any changes going ahead?
I cant find a defintive post that isnt outdated and/or ****. the patch otes just point to a 2month + old post
thnx
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Shady Salesman
|
Posted - 2009.11.30 14:43:00 -
[1025]
Originally by: Malcorian Vandsteidt Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 21:51:38 Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt on 20/11/2009 19:43:18 Continued>>>
The Shield boosters currently available on the market for reasonably decent prices are inadiquate in every way due to there insane cap usage. And anything below an X-large Booster is useless for Battleships in level 4 missions as your defense at its highest is 400-500.
With the X- large being so Cap dependent it is nigh impossible to fit the ship properly. Unless you have Multiple focused level 5 skills. (By Multiple I mean Every single shield and engineering skill at 5 + Implants and rigs). And even then your still not cap stable no matter how you fit your ship (And still have a decent tank and DPS). And relitively speaking even the non complex Boosters X- large or not, Do not give you any type of decent tank. 600-800 defense at most.
The only exception to this problem are the Complex Gist type x X-large Shield boosters, Which cost around 1-3 Billion ISK a piece. Obviously not something the average player can Afford. Or afford to loose.
I think a serious look at the above modules should also be taken a look at and rebalanced to support better cap ussage and there for a better Defense.
"Sometimes the ship isn't the issue, Some times, Its the modules required to make the ship fly halfway Decent..)
and Oh.. I GOT THE 1000th POST!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :P
So... You're saying that 800 dps tank is not sufficient for missions? Right... fyi, I have been running missions in a cnr for a while now, and I have a 475 dps tank, and I have no problems at all to solo lvl 4... It kills stuff in 4-5 volleys, and thus doesn't need any more tank, since it has a sick buffer it won't break.
Oh, and I consider myself a casual missionrunner, and I make 300-400m / week. 1b is cheap.
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KiFuso
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:44:00 -
[1026]
Maybe im noob.. i dont play much this game. I love dominix and drones.. I think that new Navy Dominix dont deserve to call it Navy, there is no big changes, give us something big. Like, make -1 high slot for a +20% bonus to drone hitpoints per battleship skill lvl, it would be cool. I realy dont need any more slots, I need bigger DPS for my drones :P
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Leocadminone
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:11:00 -
[1027]
Edited by: Leocadminone on 01/12/2009 17:16:36
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium II. Navy Tier 2 Battleships:
General: all navy battleship shield recharge time has been increased to 3390s.
I wish I'd seen this thread sooner. Why are you reducing shield regen rates on the Navy ships to something that is little IF ANY better than the shield regen rate of a STANDARD non-Navy same-type of ship?
To add insult to injury - the DRAKE (a Battle CRUISER) can in fact tank better now than your new NAVY Raven. I believe, but haven't actually crunched the numbers yet, that the FEROX (another Battle CRUISER) can also outtank a Navy Raven with this change. Hint, BattleCRUISERS are supposed to mount most of the firepower of a BattleSHIP while having little if any better defence than a CRUISER. Mabey y'all should read up on your naval history sometime.
This change is a contradiction to your "The following changes are aimed to fix this" when you're making them noticeably WORSE instead of fixing "little and disparate boost". If you were going to mess with their shield recharge, the shield recharge time should have been REDUCED to less than the time on the base version of the ship, rather than INCREASING that time to over 30% WORSE than on the base ship.
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Marcus Gwynn
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:56:00 -
[1028]
I just tested out the new CNR using the updated EFT and the shield tank on it has gotten a MAJOR castration. Using all level 5 skills, the passive tank set up I had dropped from a defense of 770 to 520 with EHP remaining the same at 94618. As a result, a standard Raven, averaging 75 mil ISK, has a higher tank (defense of 619) using identical setup than a 600 - 650 mil ISK Navy issue version. When you consider the only thing you get for almost 10 times the cost is about a 35% higher EHP (standard Raven tops out at 71825), one more launcher slot, and a slightly better scan resolution and sensor strength, it can hardly be said that this is even close to worth the added expense, much less grinding missions for the 600K LP it takes to 'upgrade'. I dont know what they were trying to do, but unless they lessen the nerf to shield recharge times, the days of seeing a Navy Raven as a shield tank are pretty much over thanks to CCP. Add this to the new faction BS released, it looks like they pushing people to go for faction warfare to get the new ships instead...
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:57:00 -
[1029]
lol passive-tanking CNRs.
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Mylena Gnarn
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Posted - 2009.12.01 19:16:00 -
[1030]
Well before the changes, passive tanks could give alot higher defense than perma boosted ones.. Now they about on par and just a matter of preference and skill choices...
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Sgt Hilger
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:26:00 -
[1031]
Originally by: Mylena Gnarn Well before the changes, passive tanks could give alot higher defense than perma boosted ones.. Now they about on par and just a matter of preference and skill choices...
This is true but that came at the sacrifice of dps which was to make it equal, now with this you cannot compete passively anymore... With the CNR being nuetered im glad I went T2 cause I dont see any future for the scorpian as well. I am sure that T2 is the next in the chute to get whacked but hopefully that will take a bit longer so I can pay off my ship at least this time.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:34:00 -
[1032]
Originally by: Sgt Hilger
Originally by: Mylena Gnarn Well before the changes, passive tanks could give alot higher defense than perma boosted ones.. Now they about on par and just a matter of preference and skill choices...
This is true but that came at the sacrifice of dps which was to make it equal, now with this you cannot compete passively anymore... With the CNR being nuetered im glad I went T2 cause I dont see any future for the scorpian as well. I am sure that T2 is the next in the chute to get whacked but hopefully that will take a bit longer so I can pay off my ship at least this time.
Why the everliving crap would you want to passive tank a BS?!
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Sgt Hilger
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:40:00 -
[1033]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: Sgt Hilger
Originally by: Mylena Gnarn Well before the changes, passive tanks could give alot higher defense than perma boosted ones.. Now they about on par and just a matter of preference and skill choices...
This is true but that came at the sacrifice of dps which was to make it equal, now with this you cannot compete passively anymore... With the CNR being nuetered im glad I went T2 cause I dont see any future for the scorpian as well. I am sure that T2 is the next in the chute to get whacked but hopefully that will take a bit longer so I can pay off my ship at least this time.
Why the everliving crap would you want to passive tank a BS?!
1.) I have a sick sense of humor 2.) To prove people Wrong 3. To get people to say WTF would you do that for???
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Marcus Gwynn
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Posted - 2009.12.01 22:18:00 -
[1034]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Why the everliving crap would you want to passive tank a BS?!
1. The pilot doesnt have to learn new skills if he was passively tanking a smaller ship before then 2. Passive tank USED to have a much higher max defense 3. Ignores Neuts / Vamps
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archangel1004
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Posted - 2009.12.12 20:31:00 -
[1035]
Im going to Jita..... to buy a navy scorp coz my rattlesnake is up 4 sale .....i loved my rattlesnake .....had it 3 years 65 kms torpedoes for 3 years but its all gone now ..... on my way 2 Jita..........
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James Razor
Amarr The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.13 19:37:00 -
[1036]
Well, CCP does not care about our opinion.
I bought a Navy Apoc a while ago, loved the ship, paid a lot of ISK to get me a full set of Amarr Navy Intems (Hardeners, Guns, etc.). Now i can not even look at it, it looks simply awfull. I bought a golden vessel, not one that looks like a little child did throw ink on a white hull.
Btw. everyone not happy with the changes should start filling some petitions. Maybee we can annoy them enough so they react.
In recent times CCP seems to get a fable to ruin ships (-> Naglfar, Moros (Drone nerv was not even in the patch notes), Motherships). I realy think this has gone far enough
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William Caldon
Caldari Golden Cross Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.12.14 05:46:00 -
[1037]
Originally by: James Razor Well, CCP does not care about our opinion.
I bought a Navy Apoc a while ago, loved the ship, paid a lot of ISK to get me a full set of Amarr Navy Intems (Hardeners, Guns, etc.). Now i can not even look at it, it looks simply awfull. I bought a golden vessel, not one that looks like a little child did throw ink on a white hull.
Btw. everyone not happy with the changes should start filling some petitions. Maybee we can annoy them enough so they react.
In recent times CCP seems to get a fable to ruin ships (-> Naglfar, Moros (Drone nerv was not even in the patch notes), Motherships). I realy think this has gone far enough
Uhh, so the greenish color was ok?
Guess it all comes down to taste and that CCP will never satisfy in this regard.
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Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.14 08:06:00 -
[1038]
Edited by: Spc One on 14/12/2009 08:16:05 Take a look at Apocalypse Imperial Issue or Armageddon imperial issue. It's covered in gold and it looks awesome in dominion.
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James Razor
Amarr The Executives IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.14 11:12:00 -
[1039]
Imperial Issue? LoL^^
Ever heard that these ships are not available anymore for normal players?
And tbh. i dont care about someones taste. The point is: i bought a golden vessel and did not ask that this is changed. If u buy yourself a car and the manufacturer comes after half a year and repaints it in a color u dont like at all, would u accept this?
I want my ship back as it was. Navy Apoc was fine as it was, there was no need for changes. And especialy not colorwise.
And btw.: I also agree that the changes to the caldari vessels are a mess. The race with the best shield systems should not be *in line* with other races. There shields should be better than anything else that comes from the other races.
(Btw.: CCP should sometimes read their own background storys and stuff. Seems they forget some parts, i.e. Caldari = best shields ingame / Amarr = The Golden Fleet)
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Anhenka
Minmatar Jotunheimr Productions Ltd. Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.17 06:17:00 -
[1040]
eh....if im wrong shoot me, but I belive almost, if not all the "Amarr Navy _____"s have been replaced with "Imperial _____"s now. I know my Amarr Navy LAR is now called Imperial LAR, and the same went for the ships, such as the slicer (only ship I know changed for sure, I dont fly amarr) If you cant be good, be lucky If you cant be lucky, dont fly Minmatar The red button is your friend |
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