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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.07 09:49:00 -
[31]
Ok im in Wf again and it takes 4 misions leve 4 to get navy vexor BP,awsom.And if you play a bit whith mision agent you can realy fast find out which part of game do the Pervse use to farm so many misions so fast.....Hehehehe
I will not write it in here now whan im farming too......I know im hipocrit,but anyway ppl this misions are made so easy,and lets say it that once more caldari millita is heving les troubel to blitz mision,cose gallent nead to find the way to shoot down NPc spawn being perma jammed,and it is more riski cose anyone who warps to your mision, while you traying to lock anything cose you perma jamm,will have easy time chasing you out of plex or even worse,killing you.
If you bring alt or friend in t1 frig that can get full agro and keep burning away you can get in Dps ship and blitz the mision in 1 min.So easy and 5 misions after you have your faction cruiser BP,or 1 mision for your Faction frig Bp that you can sell from25-30 million or so.
Comon to FW and lets the killing begin cose misions runers now do offer a lot of small gangs pvp,or even 1 vs 1 (not counting npc shooting at mision runer,hahaha). keep coming guys,fw is intersting again(system occupanci is still usles and all thet sys taking from opponent millitia is sencles). Praz
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.07 11:16:00 -
[32]
You are doing the only sensible thing praznimrak. Milking the money cow. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:05:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 07/09/2009 12:05:17 So... wai....
There's a financial incentive to partake in FW.
That's good.
More people join to make "easy money", more people to shoot.
That's good.
So in general, I feel it's all good.
At least until there are too many people doing this and the market is flooded with modules Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:55:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 07/09/2009 12:55:21 ITT butt hurt hisec missioners making incorrect sweeping statements about missions they have not even tried.
"If there's only a single trigger to kill there's no way you'll get scanned down"
I lol'd, srsly, why comment when you clearly don't even know the most basic mechanics of these missions ?
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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Faith d'Amarr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.07 15:34:00 -
[35]
Ah, the moral dilemma of the Dominix missioneer.
Should he, a) join FW and learn to exploit this vulnerability to save up big amounts of FW loyalty points with Gallente in order to purchase a Navy Dominix in the Dominion expansion, since that ship, well suited for missions, is the only possible droneboat upgrade over his current Tier 1 tech 1 battleship and will only be sold for FW loyalty points and not the corporation LPs he gets for missions, or,
b) Keep doing L4 missions in order to farm enough isk to buy a Navy Dominix on the open market, farmed by a FW pilot doing his best not to PvP.
:D
Though the Navy Dominix is probably the extreme case due to how many players it looks like it will be attractive to, more generally, this has all sorts of potential for weird side effects should the current design for the upgraded tier 1 battleships being FW loyalty points only carry through in the expansion. :)
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:21:00 -
[36]
I would not be surpised to see you farming missions in a plated punisher, don't think I ever seen you in another ship.
Is all of [lvlup] back in FW
Perhaps down the line we can trade LP items, but don't over spend at the moment, Navy Dominix on the horizon. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.07 21:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Faith d'Amarr
a) join FW and learn to exploit this vulnerability ...
What are you talking about?
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:14:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Ulstan on 07/09/2009 23:21:18
Originally by: Seraph Castillon
Originally by: Bad Messenger Fw misisons are little different, you have to shoot something in mission and tank something, and you have to be in militia, so you make your self legit target to thousands of newbie militia members.
If there's only a single trigger to kill there's no way you'll get scanned down (or you're a moron for being damn slow) in that time. And even if you have to do a couple of lowsec jumps ... if your only intention is to get them done safely I don't see how you could get caught. So tell me where's the risk here?
See, FW missions are different. When you try to do the mission, it puts a beacon on the overview that everyone can see and warp too. And enter and interfere with your missions. It's not hard to fly around and prevent people from completing their missions.
I don't think FW missions are too easy at all. Travelling around 10-15 jumps both ways and having to dodge enemy WT and pirates all the way adds to your mission completion time considerably.
Also, there are normal high sec L4 missions where all you really have to do is warp in and kill a single trigger as well.
Originally by: DARTHxFREE
Originally by: BM
I think 99% of all militia members thinks these are too hard and not worth of the risk.
99% at least even a noob can do the lvl 4's
fit cara/bomber for 110+km range keep scanner up and spam it mwd/ab away from known spawn point
shouldn't take a lick of dmg
The gallente NPC's dampen you in considerable numbers. If you rely on staying 100km away you're going to have trouble if you're just in a single ship.
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.08 02:57:00 -
[39]
So can these be run in a recon/cloak sub t3?
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.08 10:47:00 -
[40]
This is to be run whith 2 players or duall acount. It is very simpel,you warp in a guy in a frig he get full agro and all e-war on him,than you warp in lest say gank cruiser like torax or something,fly to mision objectiv and destroy it.Than dock in any station and turn in the mision ,the fact is that you dont have to fly back to your agent to turn in the mision.
Simpel as that. 1 frig and 1 cruiser to mowe thru low sec ,thats cheap investmen. So basicli from 1 mision lvl4 you can get faction frig Bp and thats from 25-30 mill. So make your numbers noobs and mision runers and come and lose your cheap frigs and cruisers in FW.
We are waiting for you.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.08 11:55:00 -
[41]
Now if only Gallente didn't hate all my mission chars.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:03:00 -
[42]
A question, as i never dual boxed the FW missions.
The beacon in overview for the mission location appear when the character accepting the mission warp to the mission site or when the mission is accepted?
I think it is the first, but if it is the second speed without the need for a long voyage running is easy. You get your 2nd char in the system, already fleeted, first char accept the mission, n. 1 warp to it and kill the target.
As char 1 is already in the area he need at most to do 1-2 jumps.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: praznimrak
So basicli from 1 mision lvl4 you can get faction frig Bp and thats from 25-30 mill.
That's not that impressive. You can earn that much from a single L4 mission in high sec, and it doesn't involve lots of jumping around and dodging gate camps.
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: praznimrak
So basicli from 1 mision lvl4 you can get faction frig Bp and thats from 25-30 mill.
That's not that impressive. You can earn that much from a single L4 mission in high sec, and it doesn't involve lots of jumping around and dodging gate camps.
Maybe,but theri is no nead to play mision for 30 min or so ,it is less than 5 min job,way more lp than normal mision lvl4 and way cheaper faction ships in lp store. And no nead for a lot of skilling ,gank cruiser t1 can take out the mision objectivs while alt in frig whih afterburner taking full agro....so?
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Gedeon Starchaser
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Posted - 2009.09.09 09:03:00 -
[45]
The only problem with FW missions as they stand now (and its a big problem) is the ability to decline/quit missions without a faction standing hit.
You go to the agent, DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE, find the perfect one target mission nearby, go complete it, turn in, DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE, find the perfect mission, run away from WT/pirate that warps in, QUIT MISSION DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE, run perfect mission.
Its ridiculous as it stands right now. The increased rewards are meant to compensate you for increased risk, but with infinite declines and quits, the extra risk has virtually been eliminated.
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Louella Dougans
Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
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Posted - 2009.09.09 11:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Gedeon Starchaser The only problem with FW missions as they stand now (and its a big problem) is the ability to decline/quit missions without a faction standing hit.
Its ridiculous as it stands right now. The increased rewards are meant to compensate you for increased risk, but with infinite declines and quits, the extra risk has virtually been eliminated.
the autobalancer will reduce the rewards, so that's not a problem.
the no penalties for declining/quitting/failing isn't a problem either. It keeps people and corps in FW, and keep them fighting in the area, and not having to withdraw to regain standings lost through failing a mission or two.
Suppose there was a penalty. FW stations only have 1 agent of each level in them, not like other ones, so if you get offered a mission that's 15 jumps away, decline, then the next one is 20, you only have the choice between a large faction standings loss (possibly enough to force you/your corp out of FW) and trying your luck with an agent a few jumps away, is not really a good option. It's not Fun.
Also, it gives FW players something rewarding to do throughout the day, when plexes dry up, and there's no gangs around.
So there's not really a problem.
There'd only be a problem, if the mission availability between the 4 militias is different enough, that one militia has significantly easier missions than another.
Having lots of FW missioners out doing stuff, will give objectives and purpose to smaller gangs. This increases the risk of the missions. This is Fun.
Mother used to disapprove of my lifestyle. Now I disapprove of hers. The Circle is Complete. |
SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 15:37:00 -
[47]
Low Sec has needed a boost for a long time, FW has needed a boost for a long time, This is both in one. Pirates will soon have plenty of FW missioners to murder for profit, Militia's will probably have more solo or small groups running around for them to kill. Faction ships will become more readily available and Finally see some widespread PvP use, LIKE CCP Intended. They have openly stated they want to see these ships used in PeeVeePee. --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Gedeon Starchaser
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Posted - 2009.09.09 16:02:00 -
[48]
I think drastically reducing the loyalty point cost of faction ships and other items was a wonderful thing. It has provided a great incentive to do FW and FW missions.
I disagree that eliminating faction hits will increase PVP. I've been running FW missions steadily for the past month and I've found it to be fun and exciting, a great source of 1v1 PVP. Now, however, there is no way for me to be forced to engage in combat if I don't want to. I open a mission plex, warp in, get 30km away from the beacon before anyone could possibly respond. In the past, if someone drops in, I am forced to make a tough decision about whether to fight or not. Even if I choose to run away, I have to come back at some point. Maybe I call on militia-mates to help me and it turns into gang warfare, maybe I leave and come back later and risk having someone waiting to ambush me. Now, there is no penalty for failing to complete a mission, so there is no incentive for me or anyone else to risk their ship. Now it is correct to warp out, quit the mission, and get another.
FW missions have been turned from a great source of PVP into ships passing in the night.
Maybe a reduction from a 4 hour time period to a 1 hour time period would have been good idea, but the elimination of faction hits altogether will lead to FW mission exploiting and reduced interaction between players.
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Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.09 18:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: SuiJuris Low Sec has needed a boost for a long time, FW has needed a boost for a long time, This is both in one. Pirates will soon have plenty of FW missioners to murder for profit, Militia's will probably have more solo or small groups running around for them to kill.
I'm not too sure about the profit for pirates tbh, if the most efficient way to run these is a t1 ab frig for tank and a disposable t1 gank whatever to handle the objective. Furthermore, no penalty for failing means that forcing a fight is just as hard and gives the mission runner the opportunity to cherry pick missions from relatively safe systems only.
Maybe if militia lp stores were only in lowsec, once in a blue moon someone full of fail would manage to die with something valuable, but as I see it, I just don't see the profit there, except obviously for the people who've woke up in time to farm these while they last. I suspect there's some changes eventually though, considering it sounds like the missions moved from one extreme of risk/reward scale to the other.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 18:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris Low Sec has needed a boost for a long time, FW has needed a boost for a long time, This is both in one. Pirates will soon have plenty of FW missioners to murder for profit, Militia's will probably have more solo or small groups running around for them to kill.
I'm not too sure about the profit for pirates tbh, if the most efficient way to run these is a t1 ab frig for tank and a disposable t1 gank whatever to handle the objective. Furthermore, no penalty for failing means that forcing a fight is just as hard and gives the mission runner the opportunity to cherry pick missions from relatively safe systems only.
Maybe if militia lp stores were only in lowsec, once in a blue moon someone full of fail would manage to die with something valuable, but as I see it, I just don't see the profit there, except obviously for the people who've woke up in time to farm these while they last. I suspect there's some changes eventually though, considering it sounds like the missions moved from one extreme of risk/reward scale to the other.
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down. --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
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Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.09 19:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 21:53:00 -
[52]
Edited by: SuiJuris on 09/09/2009 21:54:41
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
Have you even ran them? It can take 10-20 minutes to get a mission in the system you want let alone a GOOD mission in the system you want. 10-20 minutes a highsec mission runner can use to complete 1-2 missions before you have even accepted yours.
If you haven't tried running them stop posting please.
EDIT: Furthermore UNLESS you dual box or have a partner you DO need to risk isk, vs highsec missions where you can be very effective with 1 toon
--- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.09 22:49:00 -
[53]
Originally by: SuiJuris If you haven't tried running them stop posting please.
Yawn. You're a big boy, you can skip the bits you can't handle. I know because you've done an admirable job in that so far. I just find this has been genuinely interesting phenomenon to follow since the patch. First you get people singing and dancing all around and bragging about profits and later you get same people all defensive pointing out how it's actually risky and not very good at all.
Even more interesting though is how people think it's an improvement when a mechanic that supposedly was originally designed to promote pvp is changed in a way that seriously limits that PVP aspect.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 22:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris If you haven't tried running them stop posting please.
Yawn. You're a big boy, you can skip the bits you can't handle. I know because you've done an admirable job in that so far. I just find this has been genuinely interesting phenomenon to follow since the patch. First you get people singing and dancing all around and bragging about profits and later you get same people all defensive pointing out how it's actually risky and not very good at all.
Even more interesting though is how people think it's an improvement when a mechanic that supposedly was originally designed to promote pvp is changed in a way that seriously limits that PVP aspect.
So I was singing the praises about the profits? Yes its a boost, yes its profitable, its also time consuming and requires teamwork.
--- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Virtual Girlfriend
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Posted - 2009.09.09 23:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
It's risk vs reward, and considering that highsec missions are without any risk, lowsec missions could be boosted even more. Are you just mad about the people who take the risks and reap the rewards? Silently cursing all the people who dare, while you are still hoping to grow a pair in Motsu? By staying in that safe place of yours, you don't lose anything, you just earn less.
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Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.10 02:21:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 10/09/2009 02:24:22 Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 10/09/2009 02:22:02 Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 10/09/2009 02:21:12
Originally by: Virtual Girlfriend
It's risk vs reward, and considering that highsec missions are without any risk, lowsec missions could be boosted even more.
Yes, risk vs reward is what my musings were all about. If you'd read my posts above you'd see I was just contemplating wether the combination of simultaneously increasing rewards and considerably lowering the risk was maybe a nudge too far in the opposite direction compared to before patch, when there was more risk but no meaningful reward. And wether the fw mission system still serves it's supposed purpose of providing people with pvp opportunities.
Quote: Are you just mad about the people who take the risks and reap the rewards? Silently cursing all the people who dare, while you are still hoping to grow a pair in Motsu? By staying in that safe place of yours, you don't lose anything, you just earn less.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm not sure if I've ever even visited Motsu I always thought it was kinda sucky system even for carebearing. Nice ad hominem though and well done missing the point pretty much entirely.
Kinda amusing, few little prods about wether the system turned perhaps too safe and all kinds of people crawl out of the woodwork defending their cash cow and throwing around carebear accusations. :) Pretty much identical response to suggesting that hisec mission income is too good, except then it's elitist accusations.
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Virtual Girlfriend
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:59:00 -
[57]
I'm so sorry, should propably have mentioned that anything that tickles the greed sense of bears is good. So far I've encountered several groups of fw mission runners who will fight for their precious LP, which is good.
I do not run the missions myself, I grind the mission runners. And what a huge boost it's been to the lowsec areas I often visit. It's not all bad if more rewards are given to people willing to live in lowsec. After all, they can be killed as soon as they undock.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.10 15:56:00 -
[58]
Edited by: SuiJuris on 10/09/2009 15:57:35 Ok, guys here is some numbers to digest, Spent 3 hours running missions with 2 other militia members yesterday. Completed 19 missions total (partially due to rolling 4 of the damn lvl 4's where you have to kill a pos) We each ended up with roughly 42k lp, or just shy of a Navy Omen. So about 110-120 mil each.
Thats roughly 40 mil per hour per person, With risk we had to kill a pirate and a War Target to continue missioning cause its a PITA to have to fail missions and get new missions in other systems because then you have to move your mission boats which need to avoid gatecamps.
Highsec lvl 4's have effectively 0 risk and pay out between 25-50 mil per hour on average for the top end of things. Were talking Golems, Nightmares, CNR's, and Paladins here.
As we get more familier with the missions I'm sure our efficeincy will improve but its not this *OMGWTFFREEISKIES* parade other people are touting. Maybe it is on the Caldari / Gallente side because of the Terrain.
Edit, sorry left out Dominix's also top tier lvl 4 mission boats. --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Nekmet Awai
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Posted - 2009.09.11 13:18:00 -
[59]
Originally by: rofflesausage and people moan about L4's....
just my thought... .. so ******ed to give pvp'er yet another risk free isk machine :/
working as intended my ass... as ghost training was a feature, etc etc etc. so many "working as intended" that have been corrected and so will this, so hurry up and exploit it while you can ;)
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Nekmet Awai
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Posted - 2009.09.11 14:49:00 -
[60]
but any lvl 4 that can be done in anything weaker then a bs/hard tanked bc is just too easy and should be corrected
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