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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: praznimrak on 05/09/2009 15:38:47 I have been flying around ladistier and i did notice huge amount of becons relatid to FW misions that will apier on overwiev and 2 min after thay are gone leaving just one npc bs wreck on scan,so i got curiose and did go to chech it out. I did lost my recon snuffing around ,but stuff i did find out was surprising to me. A caldari militia corp PERVS was blitzing this misions whith huge eficenci,meaning that thay will come to mision kill only 1 ship and than leave the grid,resaulting in compliting that mision room that was left in whith 30-40 ships still in.Less than 1 min my overwiev did have 3 more misions that Pervs did finish in few more minutes.Thats make 1 player whith alt do 10 misions in probably 10-15 min,and gain insain amounth of Lp that gives some nice isk. So im wondering if this is a fix for FW and was this intendid to be this way,cose normal lvl4 mision do are made to do more work than just killing 1 BS while all the rest of spawn is being tanked by some frig or something.
This: [15:22:19] praznimrak > you making nice isk in here guys [15:22:27] Bad Messenger > over 50b done [15:22:36] praznimrak > just killing 1 ship [15:23:43] Bad Messenger > working as intended
If this is so please can we get some explanation from ccp,or someone relatid to FW
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Terrus Valkin
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:48:00 -
[2]
Many missions are one-trigger affairs. Pop the trigger and go home. It's working as intended. -CEO of AC-AF- |
olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:54:00 -
[3]
Just a few beacons within minutes ? Someone is slacking.
This will be dealt with.
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Tosi
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: praznimrak Edited by: praznimrak on 05/09/2009 15:38:47 I have been flying around ladistier and i did notice huge amount of becons relatid to FW misions that will apier on overwiev and 2 min after thay are gone leaving just one npc bs wreck on scan,so i got curiose and did go to chech it out. I did lost my recon snuffing around ,but stuff i did find out was surprising to me. A caldari militia corp PERVS was blitzing this misions whith huge eficenci,meaning that thay will come to mision kill only 1 ship and than leave the grid,resaulting in compliting that mision room that was left in whith 30-40 ships still in.Less than 1 min my overwiev did have 3 more misions that Pervs did finish in few more minutes.Thats make 1 player whith alt do 10 misions in probably 10-15 min,and gain insain amounth of Lp that gives some nice isk. So im wondering if this is a fix for FW and was this intendid to be this way,cose normal lvl4 mision do are made to do more work than just killing 1 BS while all the rest of spawn is being tanked by some frig or something.
This: [15:22:19] praznimrak > you making nice isk in here guys [15:22:27] Bad Messenger > over 50b done [15:22:36] praznimrak > just killing 1 ship [15:23:43] Bad Messenger > working as intended
If this is so please can we get some explanation from ccp,or someone relatid to FW
all these typos... how angry you were when you wrote this post?
--- BM facts. -Bad Messenger doesn't actually write on forums, the words assemble themselves out of fear. -When God said "Let there be light" Bad Messenger said "Say please." -If you disagree wit |
rofflesausage
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:56:00 -
[5]
and people moan about L4's....
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Teh Nurffe
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: olzi Just a few beacons within minutes ? Someone is slacking.
This will be dealt with.
Sorry olzi I was afk, won't happen again.
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:06:00 -
[7]
It's not quite as easy as it's made out Praz
yes, it only takes a couple minutes + travel time to complete a lvl 4 mission for 15,000 LP in an Assualt Frigate, farming a CNR in 3.5 hours vs 50 hours on regular missions.
But, it's in low sec, "some times" pirates warp in, "some times" PERVS leave a gallente alt in your mission cause they don't like competition. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:19:00 -
[8]
OP: Your English is fine enough for you to copy/paste your post into a bug report (do not petition it) and let the appropriate devs take a look at the situation and if balancing is in order. Everything in EVE is evolving over time and things need adjustment. Sometimes the devs overlook certain parts and are happy to be made aware about it. "working as intended" is a phrase only the devs can use with any value.
Though you should also be aware that there are many ways to hoard in isk with little risk and minimal effort in the game so what PERVS are doing is not really special. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:22:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DARTHxFREE It's not quite as easy as it's made out Praz
yes, it only takes a couple minutes + travel time to complete a lvl 4 mission for 15,000 LP in an Assualt Frigate, farming a CNR in 3.5 hours vs 50 hours on regular missions.
But, it's in low sec, "some times" pirates warp in, "some times" PERVS leave a gallente alt in your mission cause they don't like competition.
Competition
yea right, we sell items by 50m and you sell those for 35m nice competition indeed. Donating isk for strangers is always good way to make competition.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:24:00 -
[10]
working as intended.
without knowing more about this particular fw thing, have to say too many pve instances are generally ****ed up big time and no one really cares a ****
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:28:00 -
[11]
Btw. when/if you local RMT group get news about this way of making isk you will be surprised how quick this game mechanic will be changed. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Btw. when/if you local RMT group get news about this way of making isk you will be surprised how quick this game mechanic will be changed.
Please do. RMT problem then solves itself when they move to low-sec and all militias (and pirates) come to kill them and CCP no longer has to worry about it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Btw. when/if you local RMT group get news about this way of making isk you will be surprised how quick this game mechanic will be changed.
Please do. RMT problem then solves itself when they move to low-sec and all militias (and pirates) come to kill them and CCP no longer has to worry about it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Personal experience tells me that RMT groups care very little about pirates and getting their ships blown up continuously at the same gate (which won't even be the case in this scenario). If you look around in low sec you will find farmers running missions straight through the home systems of large pirate corporations and it does not seem to bother them the slightest.
As the risk involved in this kind of activity is even lower and with better reward they will be over it as flies to a pile of manure. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Btw. when/if you local RMT group get news about this way of making isk you will be surprised how quick this game mechanic will be changed.
Please do. RMT problem then solves itself when they move to low-sec and all militias (and pirates) come to kill them and CCP no longer has to worry about it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Personal experience tells me that RMT groups care very little about pirates and getting their ships blown up continuously at the same gate (which won't even be the case in this scenario). If you look around in low sec you will find farmers running missions straight through the home systems of large pirate corporations and it does not seem to bother them the slightest.
As the risk involved in this kind of activity is even lower and with better reward they will be over it as flies to a pile of manure.
Fw misisons are little different, you have to shoot something in mission and tank something, and you have to be in militia, so you make your self legit target to thousands of newbie militia members.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.05 16:52:00 -
[15]
If you want to be naive about what people will do for real life money contrary to people who mostly just want to be entertained, be my guest. I thought I was pointing out the obvious. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.05 18:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Personal experience tells me that RMT groups care very little about pirates and getting their ships blown up continuously at the same gate (which won't even be the case in this scenario). If you look around in low sec you will find farmers running missions straight through the home systems of large pirate corporations and it does not seem to bother them the slightest.
As the risk involved in this kind of activity is even lower and with better reward they will be over it as flies to a pile of manure.
when they are moving around 100s of haulers with crap loot there is very little incentive to do anything about it.
when using a mission ship and are a vaild target to an enemy milita, well then it is a bit different
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.05 20:34:00 -
[17]
Well guys here we have nice way of farming insain amount of isk,and it will take time to ccp to change that,so everyone in action please,and for any advice convo any Pervs pilot and you will be adviced well.After analizing the facts im rejoining Fw for some fast and easy profit till it still works,everyone else get into fw and get some awsom stuff from FW LP store...... Im just kiding.....
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Adeline Grey
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Posted - 2009.09.05 22:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: praznimrak Well guys here we have nice way of farming insain amount of isk,and it will take time to ccp to change that,so everyone in action please,and for any advice convo any Pervs pilot and you will be adviced well.After analizing the facts im rejoining Fw for some fast and easy profit till it still works,everyone else get into fw and get some awsom stuff from FW LP store...... Im just kiding.....
I think I am going to enlist again myself.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.05 23:50:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/09/2009 23:50:44 Now people, rush over not to Caldari, but to Minnie and Gallente FW, and start churning out Painters and Omnis, please. I wan't 'em, but I'm sure as heck not paying 300m for an Omnidirectional, which is the price of the lone Item Exchange contract atm.
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Sadaris
Gallente Smegnet Incorporated Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.09.06 07:21:00 -
[20]
Amarr needs to star doing this i want large energy transfers and a hg grail set
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Seraph Castillon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bad Messenger Fw misisons are little different, you have to shoot something in mission and tank something, and you have to be in militia, so you make your self legit target to thousands of newbie militia members.
If there's only a single trigger to kill there's no way you'll get scanned down (or you're a moron for being damn slow) in that time. And even if you have to do a couple of lowsec jumps ... if your only intention is to get them done safely I don't see how you could get caught. So tell me where's the risk here?
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.09.06 09:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Seraph Castillon So tell me where's the risk here?
The moment you start the mission, it becomes visible as beacon to everyone in the overview and anyone can enter the mission, provided he has a right size ship for it. For example, level III Fw missions allow battlecruisers and t2 cruisers and smaller into them
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.06 11:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Seraph Castillon So tell me where's the risk here?
The moment you start the mission, it becomes visible as beacon to everyone in the overview and anyone can enter the mission, provided he has a right size ship for it. For example, level III Fw missions allow battlecruisers and t2 cruisers and smaller into them
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
PERVS has killed more than 50 ships related to fw missions in last 7 days and lost couple. There is 'risk' to get pvp and some extra income by looting pirate and enemy wrecks.
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Platte Okeefe
Gallente Terminus Traders COOP
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Posted - 2009.09.07 00:18:00 -
[24]
Which level 4 mission is this?
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m0jo
Mordu's Special Operations Wing
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Posted - 2009.09.07 01:04:00 -
[25]
It really isnt a problem if you look at the big picture. Player A accepts mission then mission get a BEACON letting everyone in the system know that there is a mission about to be ran. So player warps in kills mission object and leaves. What? Should player A wait around for the opposing faction to kill his ass?
Honestly if you dont like it join that players opposing faction and go kill him when he gets to the mission.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.09.07 02:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 07/09/2009 02:35:03
Originally by: m0jo It really isnt a problem if you look at the big picture. Player A accepts mission ... player warps in kills mission object and leaves. What?
You're almost there. More like Player A asks for a mission, sees the mission briefing. Player A then tells fleet run by Player B to head to that system. Player A accepts mission, Fleet B warps to beacon and completes mission by killing the single target in the NPC fleet. Player A hands in mission, requests a new one.
This is the massive boost to lowsec profitability that Akita T's been begging for.
The major beef I have with this system (apart from 1 NPC in the initial wave being the mission completion target) is that the attackers know exactly where they have to be. The defenders have an entire constellation to patrol in the hope that the next mission the attackers get sends them into this constellation.
If the beacon was lit, with the defending militia's alliance chat being advised of a beacon being lit, with the trigger NPC only arriving after some number of waves, the system would be a little harder to exploit.
Heck, if the system required the player starting the mission to be on-grid when the NPC died that would be a little less exploitable.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.07 04:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
You're almost there. More like Player A asks for a mission, sees the mission briefing. Player A then tells fleet run by Player B to head to that system. Player A accepts mission, Fleet B warps to beacon and completes mission by killing the single target in the NPC fleet. Player A hands in mission, requests a new one.
Doesn't work like that, the mission and the beacon will only spawn when Player A warps to it. So you get your mission, travel to destination system, warp to mission and try to finish it before anyone warps to your system wide beacon.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 07/09/2009 07:50:02
Originally by: olzi Doesn't work like that, the mission and the beacon will only spawn when Player A warps to it. So you get your mission, travel to destination system, warp to mission and try to finish it before anyone warps to your system wide beacon.
Well that's even worse than the way I thought it worked! That provides basically no warning at all for defenders to come and actually defend the NPC.
As for the farming component: this means you just get a bunch of folks in a fleet to all queue up a mission, then head out to blitz the deadspaces when there's little opposition in the target systems, and head home, right?
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.07 07:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 07/09/2009 02:35:03
Originally by: m0jo It really isnt a problem if you look at the big picture. Player A accepts mission ... player warps in kills mission object and leaves. What?
You're almost there. More like Player A asks for a mission, sees the mission briefing. Player A then tells fleet run by Player B to head to that system. Player A accepts mission, Fleet B warps to beacon and completes mission by killing the single target in the NPC fleet. Player A hands in mission, requests a new one.
This is the massive boost to lowsec profitability that Akita T's been begging for.
The major beef I have with this system (apart from 1 NPC in the initial wave being the mission completion target) is that the attackers know exactly where they have to be. The defenders have an entire constellation to patrol in the hope that the next mission the attackers get sends them into this constellation.
If the beacon was lit, with the defending militia's alliance chat being advised of a beacon being lit, with the trigger NPC only arriving after some number of waves, the system would be a little harder to exploit.
Heck, if the system required the player starting the mission to be on-grid when the NPC died that would be a little less exploitable.
Wait what
People like you who does not how things really goes are yelling exploits and all.
And second thing is that why to bring these mission to game at all if those have to be so hard that no one could do those ever.
It does not matter how many npc wawes there is before final target, if it is worth of all trouble to do that mission it will be done.
I think 99% of all militia members thinks these are too hard and not worth of the risk.
There is reason why ccp boosted fw lp store, that was because there was not much people doing those missions before patch.
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.07 09:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: BM
I think 99% of all militia members thinks these are too hard and not worth of the risk.
99% at least even a noob can do the lvl 4's
fit cara/bomber for 110+km range keep scanner up and spam it mwd/ab away from known spawn point
shouldn't take a lick of dmg /join Cheeze & Whine Club
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.07 09:49:00 -
[31]
Ok im in Wf again and it takes 4 misions leve 4 to get navy vexor BP,awsom.And if you play a bit whith mision agent you can realy fast find out which part of game do the Pervse use to farm so many misions so fast.....Hehehehe
I will not write it in here now whan im farming too......I know im hipocrit,but anyway ppl this misions are made so easy,and lets say it that once more caldari millita is heving les troubel to blitz mision,cose gallent nead to find the way to shoot down NPc spawn being perma jammed,and it is more riski cose anyone who warps to your mision, while you traying to lock anything cose you perma jamm,will have easy time chasing you out of plex or even worse,killing you.
If you bring alt or friend in t1 frig that can get full agro and keep burning away you can get in Dps ship and blitz the mision in 1 min.So easy and 5 misions after you have your faction cruiser BP,or 1 mision for your Faction frig Bp that you can sell from25-30 million or so.
Comon to FW and lets the killing begin cose misions runers now do offer a lot of small gangs pvp,or even 1 vs 1 (not counting npc shooting at mision runer,hahaha). keep coming guys,fw is intersting again(system occupanci is still usles and all thet sys taking from opponent millitia is sencles). Praz
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.07 11:16:00 -
[32]
You are doing the only sensible thing praznimrak. Milking the money cow. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:05:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 07/09/2009 12:05:17 So... wai....
There's a financial incentive to partake in FW.
That's good.
More people join to make "easy money", more people to shoot.
That's good.
So in general, I feel it's all good.
At least until there are too many people doing this and the market is flooded with modules Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.09.07 12:55:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 07/09/2009 12:55:21 ITT butt hurt hisec missioners making incorrect sweeping statements about missions they have not even tried.
"If there's only a single trigger to kill there's no way you'll get scanned down"
I lol'd, srsly, why comment when you clearly don't even know the most basic mechanics of these missions ?
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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Faith d'Amarr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.07 15:34:00 -
[35]
Ah, the moral dilemma of the Dominix missioneer.
Should he, a) join FW and learn to exploit this vulnerability to save up big amounts of FW loyalty points with Gallente in order to purchase a Navy Dominix in the Dominion expansion, since that ship, well suited for missions, is the only possible droneboat upgrade over his current Tier 1 tech 1 battleship and will only be sold for FW loyalty points and not the corporation LPs he gets for missions, or,
b) Keep doing L4 missions in order to farm enough isk to buy a Navy Dominix on the open market, farmed by a FW pilot doing his best not to PvP.
:D
Though the Navy Dominix is probably the extreme case due to how many players it looks like it will be attractive to, more generally, this has all sorts of potential for weird side effects should the current design for the upgraded tier 1 battleships being FW loyalty points only carry through in the expansion. :)
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.07 17:21:00 -
[36]
I would not be surpised to see you farming missions in a plated punisher, don't think I ever seen you in another ship.
Is all of [lvlup] back in FW
Perhaps down the line we can trade LP items, but don't over spend at the moment, Navy Dominix on the horizon. /join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.07 21:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Faith d'Amarr
a) join FW and learn to exploit this vulnerability ...
What are you talking about?
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.07 23:14:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Ulstan on 07/09/2009 23:21:18
Originally by: Seraph Castillon
Originally by: Bad Messenger Fw misisons are little different, you have to shoot something in mission and tank something, and you have to be in militia, so you make your self legit target to thousands of newbie militia members.
If there's only a single trigger to kill there's no way you'll get scanned down (or you're a moron for being damn slow) in that time. And even if you have to do a couple of lowsec jumps ... if your only intention is to get them done safely I don't see how you could get caught. So tell me where's the risk here?
See, FW missions are different. When you try to do the mission, it puts a beacon on the overview that everyone can see and warp too. And enter and interfere with your missions. It's not hard to fly around and prevent people from completing their missions.
I don't think FW missions are too easy at all. Travelling around 10-15 jumps both ways and having to dodge enemy WT and pirates all the way adds to your mission completion time considerably.
Also, there are normal high sec L4 missions where all you really have to do is warp in and kill a single trigger as well.
Originally by: DARTHxFREE
Originally by: BM
I think 99% of all militia members thinks these are too hard and not worth of the risk.
99% at least even a noob can do the lvl 4's
fit cara/bomber for 110+km range keep scanner up and spam it mwd/ab away from known spawn point
shouldn't take a lick of dmg
The gallente NPC's dampen you in considerable numbers. If you rely on staying 100km away you're going to have trouble if you're just in a single ship.
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.08 02:57:00 -
[39]
So can these be run in a recon/cloak sub t3?
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.08 10:47:00 -
[40]
This is to be run whith 2 players or duall acount. It is very simpel,you warp in a guy in a frig he get full agro and all e-war on him,than you warp in lest say gank cruiser like torax or something,fly to mision objectiv and destroy it.Than dock in any station and turn in the mision ,the fact is that you dont have to fly back to your agent to turn in the mision.
Simpel as that. 1 frig and 1 cruiser to mowe thru low sec ,thats cheap investmen. So basicli from 1 mision lvl4 you can get faction frig Bp and thats from 25-30 mill. So make your numbers noobs and mision runers and come and lose your cheap frigs and cruisers in FW.
We are waiting for you.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.08 11:55:00 -
[41]
Now if only Gallente didn't hate all my mission chars.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:03:00 -
[42]
A question, as i never dual boxed the FW missions.
The beacon in overview for the mission location appear when the character accepting the mission warp to the mission site or when the mission is accepted?
I think it is the first, but if it is the second speed without the need for a long voyage running is easy. You get your 2nd char in the system, already fleeted, first char accept the mission, n. 1 warp to it and kill the target.
As char 1 is already in the area he need at most to do 1-2 jumps.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.08 17:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: praznimrak
So basicli from 1 mision lvl4 you can get faction frig Bp and thats from 25-30 mill.
That's not that impressive. You can earn that much from a single L4 mission in high sec, and it doesn't involve lots of jumping around and dodging gate camps.
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2009.09.08 20:24:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: praznimrak
So basicli from 1 mision lvl4 you can get faction frig Bp and thats from 25-30 mill.
That's not that impressive. You can earn that much from a single L4 mission in high sec, and it doesn't involve lots of jumping around and dodging gate camps.
Maybe,but theri is no nead to play mision for 30 min or so ,it is less than 5 min job,way more lp than normal mision lvl4 and way cheaper faction ships in lp store. And no nead for a lot of skilling ,gank cruiser t1 can take out the mision objectivs while alt in frig whih afterburner taking full agro....so?
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Gedeon Starchaser
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Posted - 2009.09.09 09:03:00 -
[45]
The only problem with FW missions as they stand now (and its a big problem) is the ability to decline/quit missions without a faction standing hit.
You go to the agent, DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE, find the perfect one target mission nearby, go complete it, turn in, DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE, find the perfect mission, run away from WT/pirate that warps in, QUIT MISSION DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE DECLINE, run perfect mission.
Its ridiculous as it stands right now. The increased rewards are meant to compensate you for increased risk, but with infinite declines and quits, the extra risk has virtually been eliminated.
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Louella Dougans
Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
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Posted - 2009.09.09 11:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Gedeon Starchaser The only problem with FW missions as they stand now (and its a big problem) is the ability to decline/quit missions without a faction standing hit.
Its ridiculous as it stands right now. The increased rewards are meant to compensate you for increased risk, but with infinite declines and quits, the extra risk has virtually been eliminated.
the autobalancer will reduce the rewards, so that's not a problem.
the no penalties for declining/quitting/failing isn't a problem either. It keeps people and corps in FW, and keep them fighting in the area, and not having to withdraw to regain standings lost through failing a mission or two.
Suppose there was a penalty. FW stations only have 1 agent of each level in them, not like other ones, so if you get offered a mission that's 15 jumps away, decline, then the next one is 20, you only have the choice between a large faction standings loss (possibly enough to force you/your corp out of FW) and trying your luck with an agent a few jumps away, is not really a good option. It's not Fun.
Also, it gives FW players something rewarding to do throughout the day, when plexes dry up, and there's no gangs around.
So there's not really a problem.
There'd only be a problem, if the mission availability between the 4 militias is different enough, that one militia has significantly easier missions than another.
Having lots of FW missioners out doing stuff, will give objectives and purpose to smaller gangs. This increases the risk of the missions. This is Fun.
Mother used to disapprove of my lifestyle. Now I disapprove of hers. The Circle is Complete. |
SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 15:37:00 -
[47]
Low Sec has needed a boost for a long time, FW has needed a boost for a long time, This is both in one. Pirates will soon have plenty of FW missioners to murder for profit, Militia's will probably have more solo or small groups running around for them to kill. Faction ships will become more readily available and Finally see some widespread PvP use, LIKE CCP Intended. They have openly stated they want to see these ships used in PeeVeePee. --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Gedeon Starchaser
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Posted - 2009.09.09 16:02:00 -
[48]
I think drastically reducing the loyalty point cost of faction ships and other items was a wonderful thing. It has provided a great incentive to do FW and FW missions.
I disagree that eliminating faction hits will increase PVP. I've been running FW missions steadily for the past month and I've found it to be fun and exciting, a great source of 1v1 PVP. Now, however, there is no way for me to be forced to engage in combat if I don't want to. I open a mission plex, warp in, get 30km away from the beacon before anyone could possibly respond. In the past, if someone drops in, I am forced to make a tough decision about whether to fight or not. Even if I choose to run away, I have to come back at some point. Maybe I call on militia-mates to help me and it turns into gang warfare, maybe I leave and come back later and risk having someone waiting to ambush me. Now, there is no penalty for failing to complete a mission, so there is no incentive for me or anyone else to risk their ship. Now it is correct to warp out, quit the mission, and get another.
FW missions have been turned from a great source of PVP into ships passing in the night.
Maybe a reduction from a 4 hour time period to a 1 hour time period would have been good idea, but the elimination of faction hits altogether will lead to FW mission exploiting and reduced interaction between players.
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Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.09 18:37:00 -
[49]
Originally by: SuiJuris Low Sec has needed a boost for a long time, FW has needed a boost for a long time, This is both in one. Pirates will soon have plenty of FW missioners to murder for profit, Militia's will probably have more solo or small groups running around for them to kill.
I'm not too sure about the profit for pirates tbh, if the most efficient way to run these is a t1 ab frig for tank and a disposable t1 gank whatever to handle the objective. Furthermore, no penalty for failing means that forcing a fight is just as hard and gives the mission runner the opportunity to cherry pick missions from relatively safe systems only.
Maybe if militia lp stores were only in lowsec, once in a blue moon someone full of fail would manage to die with something valuable, but as I see it, I just don't see the profit there, except obviously for the people who've woke up in time to farm these while they last. I suspect there's some changes eventually though, considering it sounds like the missions moved from one extreme of risk/reward scale to the other.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 18:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris Low Sec has needed a boost for a long time, FW has needed a boost for a long time, This is both in one. Pirates will soon have plenty of FW missioners to murder for profit, Militia's will probably have more solo or small groups running around for them to kill.
I'm not too sure about the profit for pirates tbh, if the most efficient way to run these is a t1 ab frig for tank and a disposable t1 gank whatever to handle the objective. Furthermore, no penalty for failing means that forcing a fight is just as hard and gives the mission runner the opportunity to cherry pick missions from relatively safe systems only.
Maybe if militia lp stores were only in lowsec, once in a blue moon someone full of fail would manage to die with something valuable, but as I see it, I just don't see the profit there, except obviously for the people who've woke up in time to farm these while they last. I suspect there's some changes eventually though, considering it sounds like the missions moved from one extreme of risk/reward scale to the other.
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down. --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
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Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.09 19:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 21:53:00 -
[52]
Edited by: SuiJuris on 09/09/2009 21:54:41
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
Have you even ran them? It can take 10-20 minutes to get a mission in the system you want let alone a GOOD mission in the system you want. 10-20 minutes a highsec mission runner can use to complete 1-2 missions before you have even accepted yours.
If you haven't tried running them stop posting please.
EDIT: Furthermore UNLESS you dual box or have a partner you DO need to risk isk, vs highsec missions where you can be very effective with 1 toon
--- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.09 22:49:00 -
[53]
Originally by: SuiJuris If you haven't tried running them stop posting please.
Yawn. You're a big boy, you can skip the bits you can't handle. I know because you've done an admirable job in that so far. I just find this has been genuinely interesting phenomenon to follow since the patch. First you get people singing and dancing all around and bragging about profits and later you get same people all defensive pointing out how it's actually risky and not very good at all.
Even more interesting though is how people think it's an improvement when a mechanic that supposedly was originally designed to promote pvp is changed in a way that seriously limits that PVP aspect.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.09 22:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris If you haven't tried running them stop posting please.
Yawn. You're a big boy, you can skip the bits you can't handle. I know because you've done an admirable job in that so far. I just find this has been genuinely interesting phenomenon to follow since the patch. First you get people singing and dancing all around and bragging about profits and later you get same people all defensive pointing out how it's actually risky and not very good at all.
Even more interesting though is how people think it's an improvement when a mechanic that supposedly was originally designed to promote pvp is changed in a way that seriously limits that PVP aspect.
So I was singing the praises about the profits? Yes its a boost, yes its profitable, its also time consuming and requires teamwork.
--- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Virtual Girlfriend
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Posted - 2009.09.09 23:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
It's risk vs reward, and considering that highsec missions are without any risk, lowsec missions could be boosted even more. Are you just mad about the people who take the risks and reap the rewards? Silently cursing all the people who dare, while you are still hoping to grow a pair in Motsu? By staying in that safe place of yours, you don't lose anything, you just earn less.
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Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.10 02:21:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 10/09/2009 02:24:22 Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 10/09/2009 02:22:02 Edited by: Trigos Trilobi on 10/09/2009 02:21:12
Originally by: Virtual Girlfriend
It's risk vs reward, and considering that highsec missions are without any risk, lowsec missions could be boosted even more.
Yes, risk vs reward is what my musings were all about. If you'd read my posts above you'd see I was just contemplating wether the combination of simultaneously increasing rewards and considerably lowering the risk was maybe a nudge too far in the opposite direction compared to before patch, when there was more risk but no meaningful reward. And wether the fw mission system still serves it's supposed purpose of providing people with pvp opportunities.
Quote: Are you just mad about the people who take the risks and reap the rewards? Silently cursing all the people who dare, while you are still hoping to grow a pair in Motsu? By staying in that safe place of yours, you don't lose anything, you just earn less.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm not sure if I've ever even visited Motsu I always thought it was kinda sucky system even for carebearing. Nice ad hominem though and well done missing the point pretty much entirely.
Kinda amusing, few little prods about wether the system turned perhaps too safe and all kinds of people crawl out of the woodwork defending their cash cow and throwing around carebear accusations. :) Pretty much identical response to suggesting that hisec mission income is too good, except then it's elitist accusations.
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Virtual Girlfriend
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:59:00 -
[57]
I'm so sorry, should propably have mentioned that anything that tickles the greed sense of bears is good. So far I've encountered several groups of fw mission runners who will fight for their precious LP, which is good.
I do not run the missions myself, I grind the mission runners. And what a huge boost it's been to the lowsec areas I often visit. It's not all bad if more rewards are given to people willing to live in lowsec. After all, they can be killed as soon as they undock.
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.10 15:56:00 -
[58]
Edited by: SuiJuris on 10/09/2009 15:57:35 Ok, guys here is some numbers to digest, Spent 3 hours running missions with 2 other militia members yesterday. Completed 19 missions total (partially due to rolling 4 of the damn lvl 4's where you have to kill a pos) We each ended up with roughly 42k lp, or just shy of a Navy Omen. So about 110-120 mil each.
Thats roughly 40 mil per hour per person, With risk we had to kill a pirate and a War Target to continue missioning cause its a PITA to have to fail missions and get new missions in other systems because then you have to move your mission boats which need to avoid gatecamps.
Highsec lvl 4's have effectively 0 risk and pay out between 25-50 mil per hour on average for the top end of things. Were talking Golems, Nightmares, CNR's, and Paladins here.
As we get more familier with the missions I'm sure our efficeincy will improve but its not this *OMGWTFFREEISKIES* parade other people are touting. Maybe it is on the Caldari / Gallente side because of the Terrain.
Edit, sorry left out Dominix's also top tier lvl 4 mission boats. --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Nekmet Awai
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Posted - 2009.09.11 13:18:00 -
[59]
Originally by: rofflesausage and people moan about L4's....
just my thought... .. so ******ed to give pvp'er yet another risk free isk machine :/
working as intended my ass... as ghost training was a feature, etc etc etc. so many "working as intended" that have been corrected and so will this, so hurry up and exploit it while you can ;)
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Nekmet Awai
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Posted - 2009.09.11 14:49:00 -
[60]
but any lvl 4 that can be done in anything weaker then a bs/hard tanked bc is just too easy and should be corrected
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SuiJuris
Absinthe Brothers Consortium
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Posted - 2009.09.11 15:21:00 -
[61]
Edited by: SuiJuris on 11/09/2009 15:21:35
Originally by: Nekmet Awai but any lvl 4 that can be done in anything weaker then a bs/hard tanked bc is just too easy and should be corrected
Really? Did you read that there gonig to create different kinds of missions that can be done in smaller ship classes specifically so missioning isn't just about bs'es
I guess CCP doesn't aggree with that comment.
Furthermore these CANNOT be completed in a Solo Cruiser, a Solo BC could maybe do them but it would take a while. It takes 2 people to do them effectively in smaller ships, something you could do in highsec lvl 4's --- Ceptor Pilots HULL tank |
Nekmet Awai
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Posted - 2009.09.11 16:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: SuiJuris Edited by: SuiJuris on 11/09/2009 15:21:35
Originally by: Nekmet Awai but any lvl 4 that can be done in anything weaker then a bs/hard tanked bc is just too easy and should be corrected
Really? Did you read that there gonig to create different kinds of missions that can be done in smaller ship classes specifically so missioning isn't just about bs'es
I guess CCP doesn't aggree with that comment.
Furthermore these CANNOT be completed in a Solo Cruiser, a Solo BC could maybe do them but it would take a while. It takes 2 people to do them effectively in smaller ships, something you could do in highsec lvl 4's
even if you need 2 people being able to do them in something so weak is wrong. and only have to kill 1 rat is outright ******ed, can't believe how lousy the devs in the mission departman is :/
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.11 17:11:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ulstan on 11/09/2009 17:15:38
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
The missions aren't 'safe'. They occur in low sec, you must travel through low sec regions/gatecamps to get to them, you are perma at war with thousands of enemy pilots, and the area is full of pilots. And your mission beacon appears on overview, meaning anyone and everyone can warp to it without spending any time scanning. If there's a 17 man WT fleet gate camping a system, you absolutely need to be able to 'cherry pick' missions which don't go there.
The risks of these missions are astronomically higher than L4 missions in hi sec (which can also be run by AB'ing AF's, BTW) while not paying out astronomically higher rewards.
If you saw droves of hi sec carebear leave hi sec to run the new 'safe' FW missions, then you might have a valid concern that they are just 'too good'. But you could always go kill them.
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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2009.09.12 03:32:00 -
[64]
Cherry picking the missions removes most of the risk. That's why it's called cherry picking. I agree that the 4 hour delay between declines common to missions would pretty much kill it since a lot of times you will get impossible missions. Slap a 5 minute delay between declines. Something that slows down this newest lp printing press.
Since these missions are being declined more often then they are run, doesn't that mean the value will stay at maximum? I assume it works this way; it would explain why certain faction killing missions (high sec L4s) have the highest LP payout; because they get declined 90% of the time. When they are accepted they are quick and easy, but the majority of people decline them. If this is true the rewards will never go down. The current FW mission system is risky only for people who don't know how to use it and it prints LP.
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shuckstar
Gallente Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2009.09.12 12:09:00 -
[65]
Originally by: m0jo It really isnt a problem if you look at the big picture. Player A accepts mission then mission get a BEACON letting everyone in the system know that there is a mission about to be ran.
Do players not involved with FW see these beacons or do you have to be in FW to see them?
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Lokia Enroch
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.09.12 13:13:00 -
[66]
Everyone sees them. Pirate, war targets, 'ninja' salvagers. You are 'at risk' the moment you warp to the beacon. I've decided to migrate my risks by using an Imicus and 3 Warrior II's and staying far far away from the warp-in using a MWD. While using my 85 KM range on my drones with my 75km scan range to pop the trigger ship. Even if an opponent warps in. They can't get to me, and if they decide to attack my drones, I could possibly turn them on him to detour his actions.
750 lp for one mission. But it WAS a 5 jump event. I might have to upgrade to an Ishkur to do lvl 4's. But the effect would remain the same. AND I gain standings faster now than with 'normal' plexing.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: shuckstar
Originally by: m0jo It really isnt a problem if you look at the big picture. Player A accepts mission then mission get a BEACON letting everyone in the system know that there is a mission about to be ran.
Do players not involved with FW see these beacons or do you have to be in FW to see them?
Everyone sees them. It doesn't matter which mission you 'cherry pick' you still have to make several jumps through low sec, get into the mission, warp to the beacon which shows up on everyones overview, complete the mission, all the while anyone who jumps into system or is already in system can warp straight to you with the click of a button, then make several more jumps back through low sec.
Just compare these to normal L4 missions in low sec, which are roundly viewed as being very dangerous. With those missions, you don't have to travel around through gatecamps, and you have to be scanned down before people can warp to you.
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.09.13 03:27:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/09/2009 23:50:44 Now people, rush over not to Caldari, but to Minnie and Gallente FW, and start churning out Painters and Omnis, please. I wan't 'em, but I'm sure as heck not paying 300m for an Omnidirectional, which is the price of the lone Item Exchange contract atm.
Unlikely. One further disadvantage of FW missions (at least for minmatar and gallente): You're not allowed into Jita. _________
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Vladimir Nabokov
Rapid Response Rescue and Repair
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Posted - 2009.09.13 10:38:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Vladimir Nabokov on 13/09/2009 10:44:02 This is amusing that some people don't know normal L4 missions can also be done by the combination of a speed tanking ship and a damage fitted ship, both sub-battleship class. You can look up which ships, structures, or groups of ships are mission triggers on the popular eve-survival site and blitz many of the normal L4 missions without a battleship.
The argument about less player interaction holds no water at all. Because of the new system, players are more likely to spread out over factional warfare low security space in small groups, providing pvpers of the opposing faction increased chances of running into small groups of war targets. In the end, players who are running factional warfare missions provide considerably more player interaction than the people running highsec missions. This is a good thing for both factional warfare and low security space.
Also bear in mind that players who run factional warfare missions are taking a substantial loss in faction standings from the opposing faction. Having participated on the Minmatar side of factional warfare, and run the factional warfare missions, I can no longer go into Amarr space even though I am out of the militia now. Compare this to highsec L4 missions, where players primarily lose standings with pirate factions. Finally, bear in mind that highsec missions often provide courier, mining, or item purchase type missions, none of which are offered in factional warfare. All factional warfare missions are combat type, and take place at a beacon visible and accessible to all players in the system.
EDIT: btw, for people who say running factional warfare missions is risk free, look up Valdamark's Apoc Navy Issue loss: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7709684 Even smaller ships are not risk free. Assault frigates and cruisers can get tackled at gate camps due to unlucky warp alignment, lag, or sensor boosted tacklers. Mission rats do sometimes warp scramble, leaving the missioner unable to warp out of the complex when a pirate or opposing faction player arrives.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2009.09.13 11:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Virtual Girlfriend
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Originally by: SuiJuris
The only way these work is being able to decline as many as you can simply because YOU CANNOT risk running them in a populated system unless you want to die because the missions do not need to be scanned down.
So you don't see a problem in cherry picking only safe missions? Not even in the context that many of the FW mechanics seem to have been designed to encourage pvp? To me it still seems a lot like they changed from "risky beyond not worth doing" to the polar opposite, especially considering you don't have to risk a meaningful amount of isk to complete them in the first place.
It's risk vs reward, and considering that highsec missions are without any risk, lowsec missions could be boosted even more. Are you just mad about the people who take the risks and reap the rewards? Silently cursing all the people who dare, while you are still hoping to grow a pair in Motsu? By staying in that safe place of yours, you don't lose anything, you just earn less.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.09.19 20:18:00 -
[71]
I think most ppl here are forgetting rather an important point. Yes FW mission could actually make you decent money in comparison to level 4s, but lets not forget than a majority of FW players **** that money away in ship losses as soon as they get it. Now at least they can make their isk in something related to their main occupation instead of jetting off to hisec for standard missions.
"but what about ppl who will just farm them and not pvp !!" I hear you cry.
Well with the exception of those who mission to to pay for pvp, the hisec missioning community is about the biggest bunch of farmers in Eve. All they do is mission/hoard isk/buy shiny stuffs. They never risk ships, let alone get 4 or 5 blown up on a bad day like some of us do in FW.
Comparing FW missions to hisec mission in terms of risk/reward is a joke TBQFH. Hisec missioners never have to leave hisec if they do not wish, never have to lose a ship if they have even a single functional brain cell. Militia members spend 90% of their time in losec with thousands of players itching to blow them up and willingly lose many many many ships and millions even billions of isk in the process. We risk everything... you risk **** and you have the nerve to complain about us actually earning a comparable amount to your risk free pimp ship parade.
GTFO
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.19 21:30:00 -
[72]
Seems a lot of people posting with wrongfull facts
RISK
Equipment -- To do lvl 4 FW missions one needs to invest in aprox 10-50m isk in thier ship, Caracal / high dps AF / stealth bomber work very well.
Travel -- best agents are in low sec, and your destination is in...low sec 2-13 jumps typicly. If using a stealth bomber travel is just a walk in the park, AF + Cara with a cloak and a few rig/module for faster align can also handle gate camps.
Mission -- Yes you mission becon apears on the overview for every one to warp to, if you know your systems stay away from hostile systems with many pirates. The mission it's self will take about 2 minutes to complete with the missle sniper ships you can MWD away from warp in from the start buying you time buffer in the event of a warp in, blaster AF may need to warp out and wait it out.
REWARD
LP -- with average skills your looking at 15,000 for a lvl 4, 5000 for lvl 3
Navy Scorp (comming soon) 150,000 LP do the maths, 10x hand picked lvl 4's It is estimated this ship will initialy sell for up to 1 billion isk Other FW only LP items sell at a similar lp:isk ratio
SUMMARY So you can do lvl 4's for 100m / mission in a dirt cheep ship with noobish skill points, taking 5min + travel time at an over rated risk lvl /join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.09.20 06:52:00 -
[73]
Why do you only consider the mission in isolation and not the surrounding circumstances (having ship after ship blown up in a war) of the militia pilots they are aimed at ? FW is an enormous isk sink that ppl used to have to support by hisec missioning or quit due to lack of funds. Now CCP have given us a way to support our war efforts, and i dare anyone to look at our killboards and try to claim we don't deserve something for our efforts.
I agree that these missions are farmable and that some may do so without entering into pvp at all, but is that a reason to punish the multitudes of us who do ? One suggestion may ne to balance out the LP rewards between pvp kills and missions. The LP rewards for kills are a joke ATM, but increasing them greatly would make sure the LPs were going to those who deserved them.
However I disagree that they should be vastly greater than mission rewards (perhaps equal) since newer milita members still need to make a living before the become successful at killing.
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.09.20 07:34:00 -
[74]
Why do you only consider the mission in isolation and not the surrounding circumstances (having ship after ship blown up in a war) of the militia pilots they are aimed at ? FW is an enormous isk sink that ppl used to have to support by hisec missioning or quit due to lack of funds. Now CCP have given us a way to support our war efforts, and i dare anyone to look at our killboards and try to claim we don't deserve something for our efforts.
I agree that these missions are farmable and that some may do so without entering into pvp at all, but is that a reason to punish the multitudes of us who do ? One suggestion may be to balance out the LP rewards between pvp kills and missions. The LP rewards for kills are a joke ATM, but increasing them greatly would make sure the LPs were going to those who deserved them.
However I disagree that they should be vastly greater than mission rewards (perhaps equal) since newer milita members still need to make a living before they become successful at killing.
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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Madboy
Minmatar Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.20 11:17:00 -
[75]
Why shouldn't those who actively PVP have a decent means of earning money? Aren't they in theory fighting and dying for your faction/side?
Like the five/six Caldari pilots that we engaged last night. What incentive did they have to risk their HACs, interceptors, battlecruisers, etc to engage us?
On the occasion they decide do decide to make some money by doing a mission that sends them 3 - 10+ jumps away. You mission *****s start moaning that they make a little extra money, while you avoid contact at every opportunity.
Screw that!
If you don't actively PVP, you should be locked out from most, if not all of the good faction gear/ships, pure and simple.
You want that nice faction gear while staying safe?
Then buy it off those who actually fight and lose for your faction/side each day.
Each rank should have a minimum amount of kills/assists per week. Not meeting those numbers, then you lose access to those agents that reward faction gear/ships.
- MadBoy
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.09.20 12:04:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Madboy
...
Each rank should have a minimum amount of kills/assists per week. Not meeting those numbers, then you lose access to those agents that reward faction gear/ships.
- MadBoy
That's an excelant idea, problem atm is rank comes by PvE not PvP /join Cheeze & Whine Club
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.20 14:52:00 -
[77]
I've been considering getting a third account for faction warfare use, what has held me back is i want the account to finanse itself (as in pay for the plex + pvp ships it uses), these missions seem perfect for me to decide to get that third account, what i'm wondering is, how soon could my new char be able to say run lvl 3's solo and what ship should i aim the char for? (prob gonna make it a caldari char joining amarr FW)
-sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
SuiJuris
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.09.20 20:54:00 -
[78]
Originally by: DARTHxFREE Seems a lot of people posting with wrongfull facts
RISK
Equipment -- To do lvl 4 FW missions one needs to invest in aprox 10-50m isk in thier ship, Caracal / high dps AF / stealth bomber work very well.
Travel -- best agents are in low sec, and your destination is in...low sec 2-13 jumps typicly. If using a stealth bomber travel is just a walk in the park, AF + Cara with a cloak and a few rig/module for faster align can also handle gate camps.
Mission -- Yes you mission becon apears on the overview for every one to warp to, if you know your systems stay away from hostile systems with many pirates. The mission it's self will take about 2 minutes to complete with the missle sniper ships you can MWD away from warp in from the start buying you time buffer in the event of a warp in, blaster AF may need to warp out and wait it out.
REWARD
LP -- with average skills your looking at 15,000 for a lvl 4, 5000 for lvl 3
Navy Scorp (comming soon) 150,000 LP do the maths, 10x hand picked lvl 4's It is estimated this ship will initialy sell for up to 1 billion isk Other FW only LP items sell at a similar lp:isk ratio
SUMMARY So you can do lvl 4's for 100m / mission in a dirt cheep ship with noobish skill points, taking 5min + travel time at an over rated risk lvl
you oh so conveniently forget to mention that it can take UPWARDS of 15 Minutes just to ROLL a good mission in a acceptable system. In which time a high sec mission runner can complete 1-2 missions, BEFORE YOU EVEN GET STARTED.
Seriously quit your crying. YES I DO make more money running lvl 4 FW missions then I did doing highsec missions. YES I HAVE AND do PvP inside my missions when the opportunity presents itself. WHY THE HELL shouldn't I be able to make MORE EFFING MONEY IN LOW SEC then all those carebears mine with ZERO risk in highsec? --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons |
Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.20 22:32:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Unfamed II on 20/09/2009 22:32:34
Originally by: SuiJuris
Originally by: DARTHxFREE Seems a lot of people posting with wrongfull facts
RISK
Equipment -- To do lvl 4 FW missions one needs to invest in aprox 10-50m isk in thier ship, Caracal / high dps AF / stealth bomber work very well.
Travel -- best agents are in low sec, and your destination is in...low sec 2-13 jumps typicly. If using a stealth bomber travel is just a walk in the park, AF + Cara with a cloak and a few rig/module for faster align can also handle gate camps.
Mission -- Yes you mission becon apears on the overview for every one to warp to, if you know your systems stay away from hostile systems with many pirates. The mission it's self will take about 2 minutes to complete with the missle sniper ships you can MWD away from warp in from the start buying you time buffer in the event of a warp in, blaster AF may need to warp out and wait it out.
REWARD
LP -- with average skills your looking at 15,000 for a lvl 4, 5000 for lvl 3
Navy Scorp (comming soon) 150,000 LP do the maths, 10x hand picked lvl 4's It is estimated this ship will initialy sell for up to 1 billion isk Other FW only LP items sell at a similar lp:isk ratio
SUMMARY So you can do lvl 4's for 100m / mission in a dirt cheep ship with noobish skill points, taking 5min + travel time at an over rated risk lvl
you oh so conveniently forget to mention that it can take UPWARDS of 15 Minutes just to ROLL a good mission in a acceptable system. In which time a high sec mission runner can complete 1-2 missions, BEFORE YOU EVEN GET STARTED.
Seriously quit your crying. YES I DO make more money running lvl 4 FW missions then I did doing highsec missions. YES I HAVE AND do PvP inside my missions when the opportunity presents itself. WHY THE HELL shouldn't I be able to make MORE EFFING MONEY IN LOW SEC then all those carebears mine with ZERO risk in highsec?
It's not zero risk but pretty damn close to it. You're blind if you think fw missions are fine and so on. They should be nerfed, not back to what they used to be, but still nerfed.
Failing a mission should not give penalty (unless you choose to fail it, time expired should give none), but you shouldn't be able to pick which mission you want to do and where.
And before you start with the "but its risky", it definitely is not that. Personally I've propably made upwards of 20b with fw missions, so I do know what I'm talking about. Or do you really think ccp meant you to make 1b a day and have some pvp on the side?
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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iudex
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Posted - 2009.09.21 13:45:00 -
[80]
I don't understand what's the purpose of enabling to cherry-pick. The missions were fine with the usual 4 hours decline period. I made lots of that level 4 missions after the new items were announced, accepting every mission except the one with the stargate. There are ways to do them quite safely, without a real risk (did 1 million LP in few weeks without a single loss), the average income was 40-50k LP / hour (doing them solo in a Cerberus). With current LP prices thats over 100 mil isk / hour for Caldari, even more for Minmatar, which is around in line with highsec/0.0 missions in terms of risk/effort vs reward. The extreme high isk seems to come from that cherry-picking.
Anyways, I didn't do them for quite a few weeks now. If people are doing them so fast, the auto-adjustment should kick in and devalue them. Back then I got up to 18k LP for the level 4s (old screenshot with 18.3k LP), what's the current LP you get for them ?
_____________________________________________________ My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
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SuiJuris
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.09.21 15:25:00 -
[81]
Zero risk?, no, your in low sec, arguably the most dangerous place in Eve, and very HIGH population low sec relatively because FW populates it a lot more, In a Missin with a BEACON ON EVERYONES overview that says COME PVP ME HERE I HAVE RAT AGGRO AND YOU WON'T GET GATEGUN FIRE. Just because you haven't lost a ship doing it doesn't mean its not dangerous.
Ya thats not risky. Furthermore once again you don't have any counter to the fact that it can take a Inordinate amount of time to roll a good mission in a acceptable system.
Just yesterday I had to kill s pirate Rapier that was constantly following us from system to system in order to try and gank us in missions. Its either kill them, don't do missions for a while until they get bored, or have someone scout your mission cruiser / BC over to another group of less travel'd systems. Go BACK to your agents and get new missions for the new target systems. Me and the group I run missions in have 3 target systems we accept missions for, it took 2 of us the better part of a hour to roll 7 lvl 4 missions each for the target systems. Thats not counting the time it takes you to do the missions.
--- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons |
Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.21 16:24:00 -
[82]
Originally by: iudex I don't understand what's the purpose of enabling to cherry-pick. The missions were fine with the usual 4 hours decline period. I made lots of that level 4 missions after the new items were announced, accepting every mission except the one with the stargate. There are ways to do them quite safely, without a real risk (did 1 million LP in few weeks without a single loss), the average income was 40-50k LP / hour (doing them solo in a Cerberus). With current LP prices thats over 100 mil isk / hour for Caldari, even more for Minmatar, which is around in line with highsec/0.0 missions in terms of risk/effort vs reward. The extreme high isk seems to come from that cherry-picking.
Anyways, I didn't do them for quite a few weeks now. If people are doing them so fast, the auto-adjustment should kick in and devalue them. Back then I got up to 18k LP for the level 4s (old screenshot with 18.3k LP), what's the current LP you get for them ?
Agreed, before the patch I used to run them in a muninn, the missions sending me to odd places when I was bored, usually took a detour at every system to check the belts and gain some much needed +++sec Current system is horrendously imbalanced, risk vs reward vice.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.09.21 21:07:00 -
[83]
Edited by: adriaans on 21/09/2009 21:07:52 Low sec SHOULD be worth a lot, if everyone moves into low sec to do these missions, whats the problem? just shoot them! And if everyone and their mother starts doing this missions the LP will drastically go down in value and thus the isk/hour too, the ONLY reason the isk is this high currently is because the LP's are worth a fortune atm!
I'm having a great time shooting also these people, this is the perfect boost for low sec pve AND low sec pirates/pvp'ers, if i were to join FW i wouldnt need a high sec mission runner alt anymore (which btw, since it brings in bounties in lots while LP store is a huge isk sink is worse than LP farming for the eve economy). -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Pace Tuo
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Posted - 2009.09.21 22:16:00 -
[84]
This argument doesn't make much sense. Unlike high-sec L4s, faction warfare missions don't reward the player with currency. The faction warfare loyalty points are used to purchase goods that can be sold on the market. Therefore, the risk-reward ratio of FW missions will, under normal conditions, be balanced by the market value of the rewards.
If FW missions are really as easy and profitable as you suggest, everyone will start doing them and the value of LP will plummet. It seems to me you are really arguing that FW missions are unfair because the resultant drop in LP value will hurt the profitability of high-sec L4 missions in the long run.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.22 16:05:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Ulstan on 22/09/2009 16:05:50
Originally by: Unfamed II
And before you start with the "but its risky", it definitely is not that. Personally I've propably made upwards of 20b with fw missions, so I do know what I'm talking about. Or do you really think ccp meant you to make 1b a day and have some pvp on the side?
I can believe you made 20b, I always see you guys around Ladister when I fly through there. About how many LP was that, would you guess? For those that don't know, the bulk of the rewards for the FW missions are LP. No bounties on the rats, and you get maybe 2m in isk for completion + bonus.
If the LP are hard to get, they'll sell for a lot. If the LP are easy to get, they'll sell for a little. The value of LP is entirely self correcting. They have no inherent value, unlike ISK. It's all about buying and then reselling stuff to other players.
If the LP are too easily obtained there will be a glut of items and prices will fall. If you were earning a billion in bounties per day, then yes, we might have a problem. But if you're earning a billion in LP's per day I think that probably says more about how valuable those LP are than anything else.
I'm not sure why everyone seems upset about this change. Surely we want more activity in low sec? If the low sec FW missions are more profitable than high sec missions, isn't that a good thing? People have been asking a long time for L4's to show up in low sec. Well, they have. And many jumps away and with an overview beacon, so much easier to intercept and kill the mission runner than in standard missions.
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Raelaem Eudain
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.25 06:39:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Raelaem Eudain on 25/09/2009 06:43:50
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Seraph Castillon So tell me where's the risk here?
The moment you start the mission, it becomes visible as beacon to everyone in the overview and anyone can enter the mission, provided he has a right size ship for it. For example, level III Fw missions allow battlecruisers and t2 cruisers and smaller into them
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Damar shut up, nobody cares what you have to say, just go back into eve and keep complaining as u do 23/7
as for anybody else...if u want to make isk that way, go for it, but if you happen to be a squidy watch out for my fleets....MUAHAHA
Rae The guy who has to much pride in actually saying his plexing rank cuz he actually pvp's more than he does orbiting a button all day If I yellow box you, I'm sorry...err...I was just checking my ctrl key... |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.25 13:34:00 -
[87]
The autobalancer is kicking in.
A level 4 quality 1 agent in low sec was offering 7.5k LP for a assassination mission. Yesterday it was 5.5k LP.
By hte way, it was a command agent and I have both LP skills at level 4. Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.09.25 18:02:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain The autobalancer is kicking in.
A level 4 quality 1 agent in low sec was offering 7.5k LP for a assassination mission. Yesterday it was 5.5k LP.
By hte way, it was a command agent and I have both LP skills at level 4.
The autobalancer doesn't work that fast, and if it was kicking in due to a rush of blitzers, the reward would go down, not up.
You're probably talking about different agents (really diff system sec) offering different rewards?
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.09.25 19:04:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain The autobalancer is kicking in.
A level 4 quality 1 agent in low sec was offering 7.5k LP for a assassination mission. Yesterday it was 5.5k LP.
By hte way, it was a command agent and I have both LP skills at level 4.
The autobalancer doesn't work that fast, and if it was kicking in due to a rush of blitzers, the reward would go down, not up.
You're probably talking about different agents (really diff system sec) offering different rewards?
I was assuming that he meant that, at one point, the missions were at 7.5k LP, and has been steadily dropping. This is certainly the case. Someone in this thread mentioned making enough LP for a faction frig off of one mission, that's no where near the case now (my operation is making 10-15k per hour, and dropping. Granted, I have no social skills helping me out with LP). _________
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Kora Zilesti
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Posted - 2009.09.25 21:14:00 -
[90]
Competition is steadily going up, due to threads like this. More and more people are farming militia LP and crowding the markets with unique goods.
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.27 09:16:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Kora Zilesti Competition is steadily going up, due to threads like this. More and more people are farming militia LP and crowding the markets with unique goods.
That's why a snypa-bump is in order. It's only a good thing to have competition.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.27 10:11:00 -
[92]
Originally by: SuiJuris As we get more familier with the missions I'm sure our efficeincy will improve but its not this *OMGWTFFREEISKIES* parade other people are touting. Maybe it is on the Caldari / Gallente side because of the Terrain.
FW missions suffer from the same problems that plexes have, an absolutely massive discrepancy in NPC ability.
I am seeing Matari pilots running the hardest lvl4s in AFs and Interceptors faster than my Sacrilege simply because the TP+Missile spam forces me to tank like a mofo the entire time. I can imagine Caldari have an easy time with missions due to close range npcs all slowboating towards the runner and Gallente having to contend with ECM spam as has been reported to be the case in plexes.
Balance the NPCs and the mission balance will follow suit.
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Mystical Dawn
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.27 11:11:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Btw. when/if you local RMT group get news about this way of making isk you will be surprised how quick this game mechanic will be changed.
You are already late, that corp members have been banned before from doing business with RMT, wouldn't be surprised if they are selling the ISK generated by that...
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2009.09.27 15:16:00 -
[94]
People talk about risk with thoose missions. Lets see, pirates commonly ignoring fw due to the blob that will come quickly if they show themselves. Check. Spamming request/decline missions to cherry pick the best ones. I highly doubt it'll take 15 minutes to roll a good one or your not using enough alts to roll roll roll.
So, your two guys with tank+gank are in the system, they see beacon. they warp, they kill. mission turns in, next becon appears. repeat ad infinitum.
No 4hr reroll=Fail.
The more vigorusly people defend this new isk print the better is has to be. The auto balancer take ages and you have people not abusing(or not being aware) the system making sure the missions stay up there lp wise.
Does it make more money then lvl4s or 00 ratting per hour easily when abused? It does, by a good(insane) quantity or the defense and 'its impossible' rants would not be in this thread.
So fw pvpers get it easy with isk more fighting and never leave the fw training grounds to seek the real fight in 00 because rewards there are lousy in comparsion?
Basicly. If fw lp can be abused to make a truckload of isk compared to lvl4 missions/ratting in 0.0 the balance is broken and needs to be corrected asap. 4 hour mission reroll. Like the rest of us suffer to curb this behaviour. If the missions endup in hostile territory it should damn well give you time to respond, not be blitzed by two characters putting a few m isk on the line. Do note I'am talking about this abusing of the system here, a mere 4 hour reroll timer like for anyone else would sort it proper and well blitzable mission or no blitzable missions.
Thanks. And may the whines of the fwers felling their iskprint being threatend reach ccps ears.
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.09.27 16:04:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Tammarr People talk about risk with thoose missions. Lets see, pirates commonly ignoring fw due to the blob that will come quickly if they show themselves. Check. Spamming request/decline missions to cherry pick the best ones. I highly doubt it'll take 15 minutes to roll a good one or your not using enough alts to roll roll roll.
So, your two guys with tank+gank are in the system, they see beacon. they warp, they kill. mission turns in, next becon appears. repeat ad infinitum.
No 4hr reroll=Fail.
The more vigorusly people defend this new isk print the better is has to be. The auto balancer take ages and you have people not abusing(or not being aware) the system making sure the missions stay up there lp wise.
Does it make more money then lvl4s or 00 ratting per hour easily when abused? It does, by a good(insane) quantity or the defense and 'its impossible' rants would not be in this thread.
So fw pvpers get it easy with isk more fighting and never leave the fw training grounds to seek the real fight in 00 because rewards there are lousy in comparsion?
Basicly. If fw lp can be abused to make a truckload of isk compared to lvl4 missions/ratting in 0.0 the balance is broken and needs to be corrected asap. 4 hour mission reroll. Like the rest of us suffer to curb this behaviour. If the missions endup in hostile territory it should damn well give you time to respond, not be blitzed by two characters putting a few m isk on the line. Do note I'am talking about this abusing of the system here, a mere 4 hour reroll timer like for anyone else would sort it proper and well blitzable mission or no blitzable missions.
Thanks. And may the whines of the fwers felling their iskprint being threatend reach ccps ears.
Pretty much spot on. I would be stupid to defend this system, however, I'll keep running the missions while it's still possible.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.09.27 17:25:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Tammarr ...
If there will be too many ppl farming fw lps, their value will go down /and it will/. And we all want so see cheap navy geddons /domis, phoons or even slicers/ on contracts...
So i dont think its a problem.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.27 17:44:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: SuiJuris As we get more familier with the missions I'm sure our efficeincy will improve but its not this *OMGWTFFREEISKIES* parade other people are touting. Maybe it is on the Caldari / Gallente side because of the Terrain.
FW missions suffer from the same problems that plexes have, an absolutely massive discrepancy in NPC ability.
...
Balance the NPCs and the mission balance will follow suit.
Honestly, the caldari NPC's are much of an issue in the missions because you can pick the easy ones and be finished in 30-60 seconds per mission.
Now plexes, that's another issue altogether.
IMO, they should have given LP for plexes, not missions. At least the guy has to sit there for 10-30 minutes instead of 1-2 in a mission.
Don't take this as a grudge against the pervs or anything, I farmed the missions for a while too :)
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The Yzzerman
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.09.28 12:14:00 -
[98]
I love to see all cry babys in this post... You high sec mission runners join FW and do the mission aswell, I will more then welcome you onboard office should be all around you. But please dont join Minmatar militia join amarr side so i can kill you in yor easy mission.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.09.28 17:28:00 -
[99]
I'm still not seeing the problem here. The value of LP is strictly determined by players. It has no inherent value.
If FW LP are ridiculously easy to aquire, they will not be worth very much. It's self correcting (and I'm not talking about the auto adjuster). More supply = lower prices. Lower prices = less isk/lp = less isk/hour running FW missions.
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.10.12 23:11:00 -
[100]
I heard there's a nerf bus in the 1st page of this forum and wanted to get hit by it.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.13 02:12:00 -
[101]
Blame high sec mission runners for the high prices, not FW. Carebears are the target market for all this loot. Who else is going to spend up to 1 billion on a souped up BS?
So basically these FW missions are a huge wealth transfer from carebear High sec mission runners to Factional Warfare players. What's the problem?
Plus, if there is an over supply of lps then prices will drop right?
That said, you can earn up to 100 million isk/hour running missions out of the low security system Aeschee. Run Sisters of Eve missions, purchase Sisters probes and sell them for massive amounts of isk. Or, accept a Level 5 mission from the FIO station that has a mission in a nearby high-sec system. Where are the complaints about that huge isk faucet?
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Pytria Le'Danness
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Posted - 2009.10.13 09:06:00 -
[102]
I recently did a few of these missions with an alt. Since he only had standings for GalMil L2s I ran a bunch of them, and can only say: it's dead easy and almost safe ISK. With a few extra precautions you'll be nigh uncatchable. L4s might be more tricky, when SiSi is back I'll look at those too (the alt doesn't have the standings and I do not want to leave my corp for a test).
What I did was fly a Vexor and spammed the agent until I got a mission not more than three to five jumps out. Anything further and travel time simply becomes too long. Fly to the destination system (paranoid people can use a travel fit with WCS), warp to the mission (paranoid people can wait until the system is empty), MWD away from the warp in and send drones after prime target. While the drones chew on the target MWD away from the NPCs to minimize damage.
I could easily run these missions in a fully PvP fitted buffer tank Vexor. Once I was accosted by a Caldari Crow which ran away in armor, once by a pirate Vexor - I left my drones to him since I had full room aggro and doubted I could take him AND the NPCs.
Each mission pays roughly 500k and slightly above 1k LP (remember, these are L2 missions.). They also give considerable standing boosts. In a few hours I ran roughly a dozen missions (will need to check my log to see how long I truly was at it).
It was dead easy and had I lost the Vexor it would have been no big loss either - fully insured and with a simple T2 fitting, four to six missions would have paid for it I guess. And that's not counting the LP - I got roughly 25k LP from those L2 missions, that translates into some 200.000.000 ISK in Fed Navy drones (didn't really check what is the best LP/ISK ratio yet).
For Caldari I guess it's even easier. There is a militia station in Eha and I guess you can get the agent to assign you missions next door in Oicx easily, and the Gallente NPCs don't ECM and missile spam either. I don't know what the Caldari store has though, but even if you only get the Navy frigate cheaper it's a huge money maker.
I agree with Unfamed, this needs nerfing.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.13 10:10:00 -
[103]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 13/10/2009 10:13:37 Prices will likely drop (if they aren't already) once people stop hoarding lps after the next expansion.
If they don't drop then it probably means that the risk/reward ratio is about right (since carebears who make $50 million/hour in high sec L4 missions will be too scared to enter low sec). http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1111964
As isk/lp drops, it encourages the FW player to fly and lose faction ships instead of selling them (which is also a win).
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Cutie Chaser
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.13 13:45:00 -
[104]
Let us examine this issue:
1. Good rewards for short amount of time 2. Constant danger of camps/pirates/other fw players 3. And most importantly NO NEW ISK INJECTED INTO THE ECONOMY!
Sounds great!
I'm a fan of anything people can do to earn themselves ISK that does not actually inject ISK into the economy, and this fits the bill. LPs lack intrinsic value since no NPCs buy the resulting items.
I'd be happy to see tons of players running these and bringing down the cost of faction modules. The price of everything LP related will decrease over time as more people get in on the action.
*** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers. |
Will Strafe
Caldari Overview Glitch
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Posted - 2009.10.13 14:12:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness I recently did a few of these missions with an alt. Since he only had standings for GalMil L2s I ran a bunch of them, and can only say: it's dead easy and almost safe ISK. With a few extra precautions you'll be nigh uncatchable. L4s might be more tricky, when SiSi is back I'll look at those too (the alt doesn't have the standings and I do not want to leave my corp for a test).
As compared to level 4 Hisec, about which you can say; It's deadeasy and totally safe ISK.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:20:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Tammarr People talk about risk with thoose missions. Lets see, pirates commonly ignoring fw due to the blob that will come quickly if they show themselves.
I'm not sure where you are doing your FW, but this is completely inaccurate on the Gallente/Caldari front.
There are several pirate corps that are or have operated in Black Rise, BYDI most notably. They have cap support and are fully capable of taking on the FW blobs with their superior RR BS gangs.
FW is one of the best things to happen to pirates starved for targets, the suggestion they avoid FW space is pretty ludicrous.
As far as 'needing a nerf' goes...why? The value of LP is entirely self correcting. If the LP are 'too easy' to gain they'll become worth less, as more people do it.
Conceptually, I don't think lucrative missions in low sec is a bad thing at all. I don't think having FW missions worth running is a bad thing at all.
Is the argument these earn money 'better' than L4 high sec missions? Shouldn't they?
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2009.10.14 00:04:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Ulstan I'm still not seeing the problem here. The value of LP is strictly determined by players. It has no inherent value.
If FW LP are ridiculously easy to aquire, they will not be worth very much. It's self correcting (and I'm not talking about the auto adjuster). More supply = lower prices. Lower prices = less isk/lp = less isk/hour running FW missions.
Dude get a clue, it's not that simple as you describe it. Those items you get from LP store are the ones that level 1-5 missionrunners in highsec and lowsec live from. They sell the same faction ammo, implants and BPCs (except some special FW items), and if you ruin the price on that, you will ruin their gameplay with that easy-mode LP farming abuse. Think of all that highsec mission bears, they work hard to get 7k LP and they need double as much LP for some items, for example the BPCs. If you as a FW mission exploiter can farm like 15k LP in 10 minutes and dumb down the prices of LP store items, you will totally ruin the average non-FW missionrunner's gameplay.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.10.14 02:20:00 -
[108]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 14/10/2009 02:26:05 Bounties: 27% Reward: 7% LP: 27% (this assumed 1800 isk/lp which is high for most high sec mission runners) Salvage: 20% Loot: 18%
It seems lp is only 27% of the total income for the high-sec mission runner. Instead of 50 million isk/hour, L4 income would potentially be cut to perhaps 43 million isk/hour at 500 isk/lp. And if FW mission runners were making only 500 isk/lp they'd go back to high sec missions to make their isk, so there's a real floor to the isk/lp ratio. At some point the FW mission runners would simply sell only FW specific items that would get a higher isk/lp rate or simply buy cheap faction ships and have fun with them in combat instead.
The real question is total capacity. My guess is that the number of FW generated lps is, and always will be, small compared to the number of high sec mission generated lps simply because of real or perceived risks of running missions in low sec by the majority of players in Eve. Otherwise, you'd see more low sec mission runners out of places like Aeschee and even other low sec systems where you can access L4 missions that don't even show up in local when run.
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.10.14 11:04:00 -
[109]
FW Roundtable thingy
Minutes 48-49. Looks like CCP will do something, whatever that something is. \o/ Just adding something here: CCP probably had a reason to originally implement the 4h limit when asking and declining missions.
Originally by: Sandslinger of CA
So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
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Jelosavich
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:31:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Tammarr pirates commonly ignoring fw due to the blob that will come quickly if they show themselves.
Wrong.
Originally by: Tammarr I highly doubt it'll take 15 minutes to roll a good one or your not using enough alts to roll roll roll.
1)Your doubts don't matter, facts do. 2) You think that using two characters increases the odds that you'll get an acceptable mission on one of them? Someone needs to go back to high school math (or possibly just take it to begin with). 3) If you're using more characters, you're going to get more money... that's how pretty much any activity works.
Originally by: Tammarr No 4hr reroll=Not having to kill a POS in Auga while WTs are camping all the gates=Win.
FTFY.
Originally by: Tammarr The more vigorusly people defend this new isk print the stupider the arguments have to be.
FTFY
Originally by: Tammarr So fw pvpers get it easy with isk more fighting and never leave the fw training grounds to seek the real fight in 00 because rewards there are lousy in comparsion?
LOL@Stand still and shoot primary gangs and POS bashing.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.14 20:55:00 -
[111]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Dude get a clue, it's not that simple as you describe it.
Yes it is. The value of LP is self correcting.
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o Those items you get from LP store are the ones that level 1-5 missionrunners in highsec and lowsec live from. They sell the same faction ammo, implants and BPCs (except some special FW items)
The 'special FW items' are usually the ones the FW mission runners cash their LP in for, because they have a better isk/lp ratio than the items from the normal LP stores.
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o and if you ruin the price on that
The price on normal LP items has been crashing hardcore for a while now. It's already 'ruined' in that it's a shadow of what it once was. This all happened before FW missions. Why? Because the value of LP is self correcting. More people started taking advantage of the easy hi sec LP flow, and the value of those LP dropped.
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o you will ruin their gameplay with that easy-mode LP farming abuse. Think of all that highsec mission bears
High sec missions should be less profitable than low sec missions. Working as intended, as far as I can see.
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o you will totally ruin the average non-FW missionrunner's gameplay.
No, because the LP payoff for high sec L4's is a tiny amount of your total income. Most of it is in bounties, if you are speed running missions. If you loot and salvage the correct missions, you can earn a ton more there.
Pretty much all the payoff for FW missions is the LP's. There are no bounties to speak off and not much loot or salvage either.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2009.10.15 05:49:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Ulstan
The 'special FW items' are usually the ones the FW mission runners cash their LP in for, because they have a better isk/lp ratio than the items from the normal LP stores.
That's not right. I have seen FW missionrunners offering CNR BPCs on a daily basis and getting the CNR prices down, when it should go up after the ban of macro missionrunners in the 'unholy rage' campaign. And it's easy to explain why. The special FW store items are nice, but there is not a big market for them, you can't sell a million LP every week with just the exclusive FW items.
Quote:
The price on normal LP items has been crashing hardcore for a while now. It's already 'ruined' in that it's a shadow of what it once was. This all happened before FW missions. Why? Because the value of LP is self correcting. More people started taking advantage of the easy hi sec LP flow, and the value of those LP dropped.
Do you read the devblogs sometimes ? The constant devaluation was caused by macro farmers, once they got banned the prices started to go up again. Now FW missionrunners are ruining them. They can do 10x more LP in the same time compared to a highsec missionrunner, without the need of good skills or expensive ships. In addition to that they only have to pay half the price for the CNR BPCs, that's not balanced.
Quote:
No, because the LP payoff for high sec L4's is a tiny amount of your total income. Most of it is in bounties, if you are speed running missions. If you loot and salvage the correct missions, you can earn a ton more there.
Pretty much all the payoff for FW missions is the LP's. There are no bounties to speak off and not much loot or salvage either.
That's not true, for speed missionrunning the LP are an important part. Even in the long missions with lots of bounties, for example Gurista Extravaganza, you get like 20 million in bounties and 7.5k lp, in short missions, such as Right Hand of Zazzmatazz, the LPs are a much bigger par than bounties.
But it's not only about highsec missionrunners. My friend does level 5 missions in lowsec, no bounties, loot and salvage isn't much better than from level 4 missions, 70-80% of his earnings come from LPs (he gets around 60000 LP for an average mission). He has to risk an expensive ship, and he has to have skills, yet he earns less LP per hour than the FW mission exploiter, who rejects all missions but the ones 2 jumps away and does like 80k LP per hour. In addition to that the FW exploiter pays only 250k lp for CNR BPC. That has nothing to do with balance, if you fail to see that you are either blind or biased.
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Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2009.10.15 11:00:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 15/10/2009 11:02:29 So, FW Missions were too hard. CCP made them easier but still not many people did them. Then they take out the 4h refusal timer and standing loss, and decrease FW LP store costs.
Also, they allowed MWD and PVP fits to be used for missions, on the basis that you'd have to PVP your way through to the mission site. Now people are farming the missions, cherry picking mission sites to avoid hostiles, and are escorting their PVE fits to the target systems.
Bit sad really. Some people need to HTFU.
Edit: I say, remove FW missions, give LP for plexing. Plex capture to require elimination of NPCs. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity --------------------------------------- |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.15 14:45:00 -
[114]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
That's not right. I have seen FW missionrunners offering CNR BPCs on a daily basis and getting the CNR prices down
CNR prices are not down. They used to be 300m. Now they are up over 600m. Is there some figure you think they 'should' be at?
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o when it should go up after the ban of macro missionrunners in the 'unholy rage' campaign
It did go up. It went up dramatically. It should be slowly lowering now, as the supply of LP's increases. It took time for people to realize the supply of CNR's and LP's had taken a big hit and that it might be profitable for them to run now.
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o And it's easy to explain why. The special FW store items are nice, but there is not a big market for them, you can't sell a million LP every week with just the exclusive FW items.
Yes you will once the navy dominix and navy apoc are deployed :D
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Do you read the devblogs sometimes ? The constant devaluation was caused by macro farmers, once they got banned the prices started to go up again. Now FW missionrunners are ruining them. They can do 10x more LP in the same time compared to a highsec missionrunner, without the need of good skills or expensive ships. In addition to that they only have to pay half the price for the CNR BPCs, that's not balanced.
How is it not balanced? Low sec FW missions *should* be much more lucrative than perfectly safe L4 missions. If you think they are too lucrative, feel free to run them yourself. You just finished saying that anyone could do them, no matter how poor or how low their skills were, so there is 0 barrier to entry.
Of course it's not like you need good skills or expensive ships to do normal L4 missions in high sec either, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about. A couple noobs in drakes can do them.
Quote:
That's not true, for speed missionrunning the LP are an important part.
No, not really. Because the missions you speed run, have the crappiest LP payouts. The auto adjuster makes missions that get completed very quickly have very low LP rewards. The bounties, loot, and salvage are a much more significant portion of the income than LP.
L4 high sec mission runners are insulated from a crash in LP in ways that FW mission runners are not, since basically all of the value from an FW mission comes from the LP, which isn't true of L4 high sec mission running.
Quote: But it's not only about highsec missionrunners. My friend does level 5 missions in lowsec, no bounties, loot and salvage isn't much better than from level 4 missions, 70-80% of his earnings come from LPs (he gets around 60000 LP for an average mission)
I think everyone realizes L5's are not a terribly good source of income and basically just a way to tank your faction standings to empires and get lots of tags. In that hour he spends getting 60,000 LP he could have run 4 L4 hi sec missions.
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Jintra Jin'tak
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Posted - 2009.10.21 12:47:00 -
[115]
FW Missions itself are fine in reward and mechanic. How to get FW missions on the other side, isn't. Change the standing-loss-free cherry picking into the "decline 2 in x minutes and get a standing loss" non-FW mission mechanic and it will be fine. Decrease of ISK/LP per hour due to (mostly) more travel time and sucky "kill that pos" missions. That would encourage people to get into larger 4-6 man gangs (instead of 2-people-gangs), thus encouraging same-side interaction and -due to more systems to be traveled- small gang warfare.
As ever, it's just theory and some minds will find ways arround that to get "safe" LP/ISK but that was and will ever be the case.
(please bare with my grammar, not a native)
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