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Deimos Vs Vigilant (on dominion)

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Sadayiel Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.09.15 18:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Sadayiel on 15/09/2009 18:50:28 Comparing the bonus, and stats there is any use for the deimos over the vigilant better than a half price ship? i think it's time to fix deimos just a bit to still keep a decent blasterboat on dominion. The 5/4/6 layout along 100+ pgrid should be more than enough imho -------------------------------------- You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:02:00 - [2] It is a little disturbing that a lot of T2 hulls will essentially be obsolete if the proposed changes make it through to release. What you see in the Vigilant can be seen in the Gila <-> Ishtar clash as well as a lot of the others. Supposed to be live in SiSi tomorrow, we just have to sacrifice some of our time to show just uber they are making these boats so they can make the necessary adjustments.
Veliria	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:09:00 - [3] To fix Deimos: +1 midslot +1 turret slot +400 PG (200 PG for the addtional turret slot and 200 more for plates) (And maybe swap that kinda useless MWD bonus for some form of armor bonus)
Stealthbug	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida It is a little disturbing that a lot of T2 hulls will essentially be obsolete if the proposed changes make it through to release. What you see in the Vigilant can be seen in the Gila <-> Ishtar clash as well as a lot of the others. Supposed to be live in SiSi tomorrow, we just have to sacrifice some of our time to show just uber they are making these boats so they can make the necessary adjustments. they are deliberately making the faction ships incredibly powerful. That's the point. The Deimos is 100mil The Vigilant is 250-300mil (with new prices, maybe more who knows) If they don't make them an absurd amount better, what's the point in even using them? I want to see faction ships actually having a purpose, not just a "look what i have hahah!" ship.
Chack'Nul	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Veliria To fix Deimos: +1 midslot +1 turret slot +400 PG (200 PG for the addtional turret slot and 200 more for plates) (And maybe swap that kinda useless MWD bonus for some form of armor bonus) Only thing Deimos needs is a tiny bit more powergrid, and the falloff range bonus becoming a 5% optimal range bonus.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Chack'Nul Originally by: Veliria To fix Deimos: +1 midslot +1 turret slot +400 PG (200 PG for the addtional turret slot and 200 more for plates) (And maybe swap that kinda useless MWD bonus for some form of armor bonus) Only thing Deimos needs is a tiny bit more powergrid, and the falloff range bonus becoming a 5% optimal range bonus. True. Not to mention... Fix Null ammo such that it is more in line with scorch. IOW being epic. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Opertone Caldari Monsters	Posted - 2009.09.15 19:51:00 - [7] this is BS... faction ships won't be used for PvP much because of their lower resists and higher cost. Faction ships will be by nature gank targets. Nothing from with them being superior.
VoiceInTheDesert Inroads	Posted - 2009.09.15 23:37:00 - [8] Faction ships cost a lot more....why should that not translate to much better ships? The reason faction ships aren't used right now is because they have no significant advantage over ships that are much cheaper (or they suck, in the case of the BR/Angel ships). This is exactly how the ship and their costs should work. More money = better.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.09.16 06:39:00 - [9] While it is disappointing that faction ships do not get something akin to 'faction resistances', they get faction HP buffs. Which is interesting because they get a lot more raw HP but standard [aka poor] resistances. I think giving faction even MORE HP would be awesome. Like, 20% more than the proposed changes. Make them awe-inspiring. While I feel the English language overuses the "awesome" as an idiom, I think faction ships should become AWESOME. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com ò Buy a GTC
Tom Hanks Amarria Auxilia	Posted - 2009.09.16 06:42:00 - [10] Exactly. Vigilant 350-400m Deimos 110m or whatever VIGILANT BETTER BE BETTER!!!! ITS 4X MORE EXPENSIVE Caldari Racial Purity

Xenophanes Colophon	Posted - 2009.09.16 07:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Tom Hanks Exactly. Vigilant 350-400m Deimos 110m or whatever VIGILANT BETTER BE BETTER!!!! ITS 4X MORE EXPENSIVE What the Deimos lacks in isk value it makes up for in skill requirement. I was always of the mind that faction ships cost so much because they were a way into T2 power without the T2 skill requirements. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Sith LordX	Posted - 2009.09.16 11:10:00 - [12] Pirate faction is pirate faction. It had better be better for the price and the difficulty of getting them.
Sadayiel Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.09.16 12:29:00 - [13] Edited by: Sadayiel on 16/09/2009 12:32:23 the 300m+ price it's for the upcoming changes, vigilant used to be at 180-200m pre dominion changes and probable will stay in a similar price maybe 50 to 100m more after the hype. The expensive price on faction ships comes due the rarity to get one opposed to tech2 bpo or invention. My point is that faction ships are close to tech 2 still a variant of the ship role , as example the future gila VS ishtar offers a variation for same roles but still both are pretty much effective. while the deimos vs vigilant makes the deimos totally outdated the fact is that due the blasterboat nature i can see vigilants dealing same or almost equal dmg and with similar tanks (no tight fitting so expect rig fitted for increase tanking to match the deimos) now add the increases speed and you get a a now closely roaming vaga with blasters (on terms of speed) Imho the pirate ships should offer a different role setup, that can match almost equally to tech 2 variants, but not fully outdate the tech 2 versions. Also notice this is happens mostly between vigilant and deimos (due both ships sharing a role coming both from same ship origin) since the serpentis ships for some odd reason don't offer different roles than the original hull they come from. -------------------------------------- You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here.
Stealthbug	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:01:00 - [14] Edited by: Stealthbug on 16/09/2009 15:03:59 Originally by: Sadayiel Edited by: Sadayiel on 16/09/2009 12:32:23 the 300m+ price it's for the upcoming changes, vigilant used to be at 180-200m pre dominion changes and probable will stay in a similar price maybe 50 to 100m more after the hype. The expensive price on faction ships comes due the rarity to get one opposed to tech2 bpo or invention. My point is that faction ships are close to tech 2 still a variant of the ship role , as example the future gila VS ishtar offers a variation for same roles but still both are pretty much effective. while the deimos vs vigilant makes the deimos totally outdated the fact is that due the blasterboat nature i can see vigilants dealing same or almost equal dmg and with similar tanks (no tight fitting so expect rig fitted for increase tanking to match the deimos) now add the increases speed and you get a a now closely roaming vaga with blasters (on terms of speed) Imho the pirate ships should offer a different role setup, that can match almost equally to tech 2 variants, but not fully outdate the tech 2 versions. Also notice this is happens mostly between vigilant and deimos (due both ships sharing a role coming both from same ship origin) since the serpentis ships for some odd reason don't offer different roles than the original hull they come from. i'm going to just say "no" to that one. unless this "new" role was absolutely 100% amazing, what's the point? the fact is that faction ships, pirate ones in particular, are incredibly expensive, and their price should reflect their ability. no one will use them if they are simply incredibly expensive alternatives.
Morgs44 Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:16:00 - [15] I reckon it would be nice if pirate ships give bonuses to pirate player, and faction ship could give bonus to fw players.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.16 15:54:00 - [16] Why are you using market price of a ship to justify them being overpowered in everything but large gang warfare? They cost the exact same as all other Empire faction ships in LP stores. Price is due to rarity as fewer people run missions from pirate faction, but this should not be reason to make god-mobiles. Yes they should be much better than T1 and be able to compete directly with a T2 hull, but some of them are so much more powerful that there is no comparison. As for the Diemost: The 5/4/6 suggestion is so incredibly over the top that its not even worth considering. Full tackle, injection, speed, damage, tank AND 5 med drones? No downside = bad design. Cut drone bandwidth/bay or adjust grid/cpu to prevent the obvious cookie cutter fits and it might work, but would still be close to uber compared to other hacs. Increasing one of the damage bonuses to 7.5% or replacing it with RoF would make it the gank platform its meant to be.
Sith LordX	Posted - 2009.09.16 16:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Sith LordX on 16/09/2009 16:21:31 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Why are you using market price of a ship to justify them being overpowered in everything but large gang warfare? They cost the exact same as all other Empire faction ships in LP stores. Price is due to rarity as fewer people run missions from pirate faction, but this should not be reason to make god-mobiles. Yes they should be much better than T1 and be able to compete directly with a T2 hull, but some of them are so much more powerful that there is no comparison. As for the Diemost: The 5/4/6 suggestion is so incredibly over the top that its not even worth considering. Full tackle, injection, speed, damage, tank AND 5 med drones? No downside = bad design. Cut drone bandwidth/bay or adjust grid/cpu to prevent the obvious cookie cutter fits and it might work, but would still be close to uber compared to other hacs. Increasing one of the damage bonuses to 7.5% or replacing it with RoF would make it the gank platform its meant to be. Stop, don't touch this! Dunu nu nuuuu! Don't touch THIS! You don't fly a deimos, you don't know how crappy blasters are. Stuff has to stand still for you to hit it. If it moves 50m/s it takes about 25% of your DPS off it. If it orbits you at 200m/s you miss alot. Blasters need some serious web help. Removing the useless mwd bonus and putting a web factor 10% bonus per level in place of it would be much better for every T2 blaster ships role. That dps us useless if you can't hit anything to begin with.
Sadayiel Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.09.17 06:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida As for the Diemost: The 5/4/6 suggestion is so incredibly over the top that its not even worth considering. Full tackle, injection, speed, damage, tank AND 5 med drones? No downside = bad design. Cut drone bandwidth/bay or adjust grid/cpu to prevent the obvious cookie cutter fits and it might work, but would still be close to uber compared to other hacs. I doubt you ever fit a deimos even less piloted one in pvp, just for once go to EFT warrioring and try to set up a tank+dps setup on it (hint with max skills don't expect better weapons than ions) then check how it burns cap like a mofo -------------------------------------- You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here.


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