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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
ultima necat
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Posted - 2009.09.16 19:51:00 -
[391]
Imho,
One super-weapon on the field is awesome. 10+ super-weapon on the field are ... a big problem. Area effect or not.
If you downgrade MS into expensive assault ship, without repair, clone bay or command modules, why not go the other way with the Titan?
Remove all weapons, expand the maintenance bay and the corporate hangar, add the former ms ability to fit several command modules, and add a special ability to repair all ship inside the maintenance bay. Perhaps once per hour -10% per level in the skill formerly know as doomsday operation ? And increase hp by x10. Instant mobile station.
Just an idea.
Ultima necat
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Dandy Lyon
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:04:00 -
[392]
I'm not a cap pilot, and I don't engage in huge fleet wars, and I'm getting ready to prove it. Here's an idea to have the size of titan fleets be self balancing. What if this massive tank boost they're about to get is tied to the size of their support fleet? What if all subcap ships in the titan's fleet added a percentage to the titan's tank? Let's say 600k m3 of ships adds 1% to the buffer bonus of the titan. Therefore, 100 bs's would double the tank. But, if there are 2 titans in that fleet, they have to share the bonus. This makes the fleet commander consider carefully the amount of titans vs support ships he'd like to bring into the battle. It also gives less skilled pilots a reason to be in the fight. In a huge battle, do you want to add more firepower (more titans) or more tank (more support ships).
Obviously the numbers can be adjusted as needed.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:05:00 -
[393]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 16/09/2009 13:35:39
Besides with the altest great changes, especially wormholes, i had hopes for a more clever change for capitals and supercaps. Something like subsystems like t3 cruisers have them for caps allowing many different specialized roles similar to t3 cruiser.
Good start ccp but youre far from finished with caps :/
Motherships with T3 type subsystems is an awesome idea, it will take skills to improve the bonuses and can be specialized in certain areas. This way you can fit command modules, or better tank, or better fighter/bomber damage, or better logistics ability.......THIS is an awesome idea that should be considered |
Vorononv Circut
The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:07:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Dandy Lyon Here's an idea to have the size of titan fleets be self balancing. What if this massive tank boost they're about to get is tied to the size of their support fleet? What if all subcap ships in the titan's fleet added a percentage to the titan's tank?
So the solution will be simple. No fleets under 255. Your titan is always awesome \o/. Once you get another 254 players, you can bring a second titan along. Unstoppable.
Yeah... no.
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Zardos
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:13:00 -
[395]
I'll throw my two pennies worth in. First of all, the name change from Mothership to Supercarrier. Both names have their merits but I disagree that the term "Mothership" leads to confusion over their role. A Mothership is described as "A mother ship is a vessel or aircraft that carries a smaller vessel or aircraft that operates independently from it.". That's precisely what they do - they carry Fighters/Fighter Bombers. Changing their name might cause more confusion. The reason they aren't presently used is because their Attack power vs. Cost ratio is skewed. They just don't hit hard enough to warrant risking them for their cost.
Having said that, I really like these changes. MoM's will now be useful once more and could well be essential tools in anti-Capital roles, and removal of the Titan area effect and making it a targetable weapon will mean and end to the DDD spam and force pilots to be bolder in their deployment. I do fear however that "not being capable of killing a Cap Ship" is too underpowered. The largest, most powerful, most expensive ship in Eve is only capable of destroying one BS instantly? What's it firing? Wet Lettuce? What about making it capable of severely damaging POS? That'd shorten POS Sieges which most people hate.
All in all though, welcome changes.
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Ordais
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:16:00 -
[396]
Hm...finally going for the Titan-superbeam...should i say "everyone told you so since 2006?" But hey, FINALLY you do it, cudos to you. But i still ask myself why it took you 3 years to realize it?
Now for the new/old supercarriers, i'm not sure if its good to make them anti-capital...sharing their role with the dreads AND the titans that are now anti-cap as well with their beams? I see that you wouldn't know what else to do with them...
Maybe its time you introduce real subsystems for capital-ships and weaponry to take out this subsystems. Lets say, fighter-bombers cannot kill a titan, but disable his shield-generator/mega-beam weapon/whatever.
Maybe then a battlefield and its weapons (ships) would have more layers finally, and capital-ships like dreads/supercarrier/carrier wouldnt cover the exact same roles.
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Vorononv Circut
The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:17:00 -
[397]
Edited by: Vorononv Circut on 16/09/2009 20:18:32
Originally by: Zardos I do fear however that "not being capable of killing a Cap Ship" is too underpowered. The largest, most powerful, most expensive ship in Eve is only capable of destroying one BS instantly?
Nah, it's better than you think. He said it shouldn't kill a Super Cap in one hit (Mom/SuperCar or Titan). I think the intention is to one-hit almost any other ship.
Edit: Spelling
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Commanders Heaven
Gallente Nex Exercitus
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:18:00 -
[398]
Dreads will remain unchanged with one small exception - the Moros will only receive its drone damage bonus if it is in siege mode.
You Really want uss gallente pilots to respec do you?! Nerfring our entire ship from the myrmidon to the freaking moros? What is the reason for this? Bloody ****ing hell.
It's the members who make the corp, and not the other way around... |
Dandy Lyon
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:19:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Vorononv Circut
Originally by: Dandy Lyon Here's an idea to have the size of titan fleets be self balancing. What if this massive tank boost they're about to get is tied to the size of their support fleet? What if all subcap ships in the titan's fleet added a percentage to the titan's tank?
So the solution will be simple. No fleets under 255. Your titan is always awesome \o/. Once you get another 254 players, you can bring a second titan along. Unstoppable.
Yeah... no.
Like I said, I have no real experance here. But 254 bs's would increase the Titan's tank by only 254%. Some of the other posts were talking about needing a 1000% improvement. How long would it take a good number of dreads to down it? Also, without some support ships, a titan and 254 bs's are gonna have some problems. If some of those pilots are flying smaller ships, the titan's defence drops. So, let's say you're right, a titan and 254 bs's show up to the fight, but the other side chooses to bring 5 titans and 250 bs's... Who's gonna win? I'm not sure unstopable is accurate.
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:20:00 -
[400]
so you are turning the moros from a ship i like to fly and want to fly into one that will gather dust in my hanger untill you rebalance it back into something usefull
GJ ccp
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Serj Darek
Minmatar Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:27:00 -
[401]
Originally by: H Zebra so you are turning the moros from a ship i like to fly and want to fly into one that will gather dust in my hanger untill you rebalance it back into something usefull
GJ ccp
I think that's why all of the assorted super-capital pilots are asking about docking. That way everyone can park their super-capitals and not have to waste a character. If they allowed docking I would buy a mom (supercarrier is a horrible name), but can't be arsed parking a character ad finitium in space.
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.16 20:44:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto And no, those restrictions you described won't cut it. You're essentially describing a POS - always in space, always can be attacked, has a fuel cost, multiple players can use it. And while POSes die, I think we can both agree that this doesn't stop them from being exactly as heavily used as they need to be. Remember when people would have said that POS-spamming an 80 moon system was clearly insane and would never happen? All you're doing is saying that Titan pilots have to log off in POSes every night - this is hardly going to kill the ship. For that matter, if they cost what you suggest, it'll barely be noticeable except to the poor ******* who has to fly it.
Put simply, you seem to be once again relying on isk and effort as your balancing tool, and it won't work any better for you than it did for CCP. Just make the stupid things balanced in their own right.
You obviously skimmed both posts. I only said the construction would be visible at POS, and that Titans would use a form of anchoring and reinforced modes for defense. I did not say Titans would anchor themselves at POS.
Further, if you want to make the comparison between POS and a mobile station Titan, at least make the effort to understand why POS are common. It isn't because of POS mechanics, but the stats that are fed into them. That isn't to say I'd even want to borrow the code straight from POS even if it was similar enough to do so. I just blasted CCP for recycling old code if you haven't noticed.
You know, lets pretend for a moment that a single POS costs as much as a Titan.
- can be purchased from market, doesn't need logistics or manpower to construct and definitely doesn't need protection - can be set up and fitted by one person in an hour or two at no cost, where fitting isn't likely to change - one guy can store enough fuel at corporate hangar for months of operation, in one trip - one character is all you need to manage it, without any real skills - two characters to operate the guns - can be taken down and moved in a small 4 hour window - can't be blockaded efficiently as friendlies can drop out of warp inside defensive shield - one dedicated individual can handle a dozen POS themselves
By comparison to what I'm suggesting, it's not even close. You need manpower and logistics for every operation. And since EVE has a tendency to grow in size, logistics become easier, and resources more abundant - it would still be difficult for anyone not at the top of the food chain to protect theirs.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:04:00 -
[403]
I was just thinking but maybe have a form of electronic warfare affect titans like the HIC Warp Disruptor Generator which can keep a supercapital locked in place.
So instead of a hic sporting a warp disruption generator perhaps give it a module that can shut down a titan superweapon (not ecm). Maybe offline the titan superweapon with an energy surge (for rp reasons) so the titan pilot has to keep trying to online it. Or something.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:05:00 -
[404]
I think Titan DD weapon should be like a Warp Disruption Field Generator (scripted module). In which case it can do (just throwing a number out there) 1 mill damage single targeted, or scripted for remote burst damage for 100k per ship in a 10km AOE. This would then give it the ability to be effective against both capitals and subcapitals. Both scripted and unscripted would have to be on a targeted ship/object and the AOE script could also have a damage delay effect so that the ships would have to be bubbled in order for the weapon to be effective vs sub capitals. |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:10:00 -
[405]
Jesus Christ you still managed to shaft Gallente ever so slightly CCP. Otherwise it's a nice blog.
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ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:41:00 -
[406]
Posting in what is the biggest whine-fest I've seen for a long time.
Summary of thread: - Nuuuu. Mah Moros!! - "Superwhat?" "your mom" - Titan whine, counter-whine, cheese 'n' whine, and more (business as usual) - Some ideas on some things that someone mentioned, that drowned in all the whine. - General New-devblog-on-game-changes-and-I-disagree-with-them-ness
~ MED-SEC ~ AND The Blatantly Obvious |
Sharp Feather
Gallente POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:44:00 -
[407]
why not do this instead...
-make titan be able to spawn bubble sheilds around their fleet?
-Let them fit 8 capital sized guns?
-make DD a temporary EMP that stunt ships instead of doing damages?
-make a fallout after a DD have been fired... like, damage over time for everyone on grid?
-Lock a gate?
-A super gun anti POS, and nothing else?
-make it so if there is more than 3 titan on grid, they are all turned off because of somekind of interferance?
-Sumon a wormhole that spawn tons of NPC ships that attack everyone?
-create a blackhole that suck everyone inside of it and spawn them randomly around new eden?
-Place a lot and a lot of turrets that fire randomly at every enemy. Which mean, pilot doesnt have control over the turrets, they are like NPCs controled guns. It will look good and titan will be like, constant AOE random damage over time?
-Infinitly spawn fighters?
-make their single target guns STUNTS instead of damage... like an EMP, but for single target.
.........
BRAINSTORM... that was fun.
LOGIC & MORE LOGIC
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Inferno Styx
Caldari Division of Dying Stars
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:47:00 -
[408]
I think we are forgetting some major considerations here about the Super carriers and the Titans.
1. They require sovereignty to build. They are always built in Sov 4 systems now because they can't be attacked there. With the changes your more then likely going to need to have significant infrastructure investment to begin Titan construction.
A.If it take 5 months to get a system's industrial backbone capable of producing super caps. Then another 5 months of investment to secure the system to were it is semi safe to begin construction. Your looking at several hundred billion in investment before you can even begin to construct a titan. At the same time alliances will probably be losing titans faster then they already are. Titans will slowly become a rare commodity used only when needed. (Timelines obviously not real used for example.)
B. A lot of these changes will make it profitable for alliances to allow outsiders into their systems. More eyes means more people will know if a Titan is under construction. Sell this info to their enemies and a raid results in a dead baby super cap.
2. Super carrier/Mother ship. Actually the new name is technically correct. There is a difference between a Super carrier and a carrier IRL.
Carrier Linkage
Super Carrier Linkage
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Zheren Huli
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate Federation of Active Commonwealth Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:49:00 -
[409]
lets look at this with some current sisi numbers.
first of all not sure if the ddop bonus will still apply but i am going with "rough" numbers anyway for now as nothing is in stone yet.
10% damage per level would be 3m per hit taking 75% resists into account 750k damage per shot
an unskilled unresisted erebus currently has uhm 1.26m hp
2.73m with top skills and erebus with armour links+damnation in fleet
and 3.985mil with three t2 trimarks and slaveset *again as roughly rounded value*
so let us multiply the current sisi version, 3mil base hp by 3, call it 10mil unresisted hp with across the board resists of 75% would give it 40mil ehp.
20 titans *as much as there were on grid as the first carrier got doomsdaied* with ddop 5 would do 60mil raw damage per shot taking the above values in account.
so yeah dead titan in one shot.
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:50:00 -
[410]
I know Battle Tested has already mentioned this, but I want to mention this again: The biggest problems currently with supercaptials in game, other than the way the DD works, is their unsurvivablilty in common capital combat situations. It's not coincidental that nearly all titans are nanofitted and you never see a mothership on the field. Putting either of these on the front lines for any time means death to that ship.
While a HP boost is needed (and coming) unless it's a fair sized one over base capital level (5x for MS, maybe 10-15 for titan) it's simply not enough. I've personally been in a fight where we destroyed wack-a-molle's titan in less than 45 seconds. With the current proposed changes unless you can sustain a tank of sufficient strength to place these ships on the front lines, there's no way you'll ever see them there. If you indeed have added HP of the needed levels, then the current capital reps will be undersized - as already said, rather like using small reps on a cruiser or something similar. While no supercap should be able to tank a dreadfleet by itself, it should not blow up right off. It should be able to tank at least for a few minutes before going down (2-3 I'd say). This is necessary because if it did have support, it'd take time (generally more in high lag situations) to get the remote reps/cap passers on it to allow it to take the incoming damage. I very much think that currently unless this is true MS will still be hugging POSes and no one will use them. The same goes for titans since the cost to building one is so high, except that in titan case they'll just become portable jump bridge arrays and nothing more.
Also, it would be nice if you made hangars on board supercaps bigger. Especially titan hangar seems rather undersized considering what the ship is supposed to be.
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.16 21:58:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Zheren Huli
20 titans *as much as there were on grid as the first carrier got doomsdaied*
That was about 5-6 alliances of titans (including some of ours). I'd be willing to say that is a very rare occurrence in eve. More common would be 6-8, that's about the most you'd commonly see considering timezone restrictions.
Still I wonder if that's enough to instakill a mothership. If so, means motherships are going to be still hugging POSes.
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Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:00:00 -
[412]
Was the option considered to make Titans (with aoe DD) simply very exclusive (through some part required for construction only being in the universe a set number of times)? If the option was considered, what where the arguments against it?
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Czix
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:14:00 -
[413]
A thought on the stemming of Titan proliferation many ppl seem so concerned about:
Remove Titan blueprints from the game for a while (refunding bought ones).
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Apple Boy
Gallente Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:16:00 -
[414]
ok, HOLY ****! thanks to the awesomeness of Zofu and cncfanatics for getting the latest db and making pyfa respectively, I was able to take a look at the HUGE BOOST to titans. To do so, I used the fit below for a PvP fit. I also added in a slave set and armored warfare 5. as of writing this pyfa doesn't have the erebus' 37.5% bonus to armor HP so you need to factor that in. It has 902,344 shields, 5,125,069 armor, and 1,000,000 structure, RAW!!! without the armor HP bonus or any boosts from a loki, that's 28,941,811 effective HP!!!!! so you're looking at around 40mil EHP with bonuses! now for DPS. with the setup below and level 5 skills and a +5% to all turret damage implant you're looking at 10,877DPS!!!!! that's not including the super DDD that can basically instapop a carrier and possibly a dread every 5 minutes since it does 2.5million damage. As it isn't in siege mode, it has better tracking than a megathron with Spike loaded...
so in short, drop 10 erebus' on grid with maybe 15 motherships for rr and fighter bombers and you can clean house of over 100 caps on a battlefield in under 10 minutes, probably without losing a single titan.
[Erebus, **** machine]
Aurora Ominae Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Guardian Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Guardian Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Guardian Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Guardian Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Guardian Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Guardian Antimatter Charge XL Ahremen's Modified Large EMP Smartbomb
Selynne's Modified Cap Recharger Selynne's Modified Cap Recharger Selynne's Modified Cap Recharger Selynne's Modified Cap Recharger Selynne's Modified Cap Recharger Selynne's Modified Cap Recharger
Capital Armor Repairer I Damage Control II Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Centum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Cormack's Modified Magnetic Field Stabilizer Cormack's Modified Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II
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Professor Dumbledore
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:19:00 -
[415]
you should stick to salvaging wrecks apple boy at least you know how to do that.
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Leaving Eve
Boo Hoo Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:21:00 -
[416]
Why don't CCP just castrate every Gallente male at birth, to kill the race off completely?
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Rayth Phaenor
Caldari Aurelius Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:27:00 -
[417]
Originally by: CCP Abathur "If I have an unstoppable super weapon, I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve." - Evil Overlord Rule #40
CCP Abathur, I award you one internets. Oh, and no more doomsday aoe/I win button = happy.
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Saladin
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:32:00 -
[418]
This will probably be called a horrible idea. But I think a doomsday should get a massive damage boost, and affect all ships in system, not just on grid. It should be strong enough to eliminate even caps. The drawback is that it self destructs the Titan. So it is an awesome weapon that can only ever be used once.
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DaemonBarber
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:38:00 -
[419]
Edited by: DaemonBarber on 16/09/2009 22:38:53
Originally by: Rayth Phaenor
Originally by: CCP Abathur "If I have an unstoppable super weapon, I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve." - Evil Overlord Rule #40
CCP Abathur, I award you one internets. Oh, and no more doomsday aoe/I win button = happy.
Why would a quote from a very old website win an internets?
http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
And the full rule:
40. I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting. If I have an unstoppable superweapon, I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve.
Still - looking forward to the future of EVE.
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Asohan
Lambent Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.16 22:39:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Saladin This will probably be called a horrible idea. But I think a doomsday should get a massive damage boost, and affect all ships in system, not just on grid. It should be strong enough to eliminate even caps. The drawback is that it self destructs the Titan. So it is an awesome weapon that can only ever be used once.
Jihadswarm would love this one. Could only imagine local lol
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