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Proxyyyy
Caldari Exile Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.26 23:03:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida This will likely be flamed by the "elite" but it needs to be said.
Originally by: In4r4 Keep telling yourselves that...
Unless something has drastically changed in the last year there is little to no PvP in 0.0 .. and no 300+ v 300+ shooting things name down/up is not PvP, that's an arcade game. There may be roams running around ganking unaware haulers, capitals and ratters, but again that is not PvP, that is muggings.
Null-sec PvP is a battle of wits between FC's. The one with better intel, understanding of game and fleet composition wins ... might as well stick let them play chess to determine a winner.
Call it FCvFC or GroupVsGroup, but please don't refer to it as PvP.
FW/low-sec PvP on the other hand is not just a battle of wits between FC's but of individual fittings, spacial awareness, ship/weapon recognition, target calling and balls. The smaller scale means that the individuals actions, or lack thereof, can decide who wins or loses, the players are fighting each other and not game mechanics.
This^ and the facted that people in 0.0 think they are uber is the joke realy, cause 95% of them cant pvp the rest are in pvp focused alliances like cry havoc ,pl ,tri ,minor threat...
In 0.0 skill doesnt win more or less numbers and logistics i.e. how many ships can be replaced and fielded in a timely fasion.
The majority of the best pvp'ers are in low sec, and are pirates.
i know this cause when i roam null/sec solo i find it easy to kill people there compared to low sec. and piracy has changed, now more than ever pirates are fighting each other and almost never engaging neutrals, mainly cause they tend to stay away from low sec.
Faction warfare is as lame as null sec, in that i mean the quality of pilots is largely low, and they use numbers to compensate for this, indeed many wont undock unless within a large group/fleet up. "NOT UNLIKE 0.0"
Its always funny how pilots in null sec hate pirates and low sec and look down on them, but praise pirate aliances like pl and look up to them.
PL even recruites threw its pirate alt corp SNIGWAFFE instead of tainting them self with to many bad pilots from 0.0
Its realy funny when you think about it, but keep on thinking null sec is uber = )
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Soulitice
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Posted - 2009.09.26 23:29:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Soulitice on 26/09/2009 23:37:18 It seems like too much emphasis is put into the blob in FW. FW isn't won by random slow moving blobs of boredom. Why do people seem to not care about the plex? I haven't FW in about a year so maybe the rules have changed, but I reacall you won systems by plexing, not by killing the other militia.
I am looking for a Minmatar FW corp to call home: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1185172
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Mutnin
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.09.27 00:18:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Soulitice Edited by: Soulitice on 26/09/2009 23:37:18 It seems like too much emphasis is put into the blob in FW. FW isn't won by random slow moving blobs of boredom. Why do people seem to not care about the plex? I haven't FW in about a year so maybe the rules have changed, but I reacall you won systems by plexing, not by killing the other militia.
I am looking for a Minmatar FW corp to call home: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1185172
I actually gave it a go and tried to use plexes to get fights for about a month or so. I actually got more fights out of pirates that came into the plexes, than I did from FW members.
The problem is in most cases the plexers essentially are doing it for either standings or RP reasons. They fit their ships to orbit the button fast enough to tank the NPC's but never really fit for a fight.
This means typically, unless they have a good advantage with ships or numbers they will warp out of the plex the min you enter. That or will hide behind all the NPC rats if it's their sides plex and make you take full aggro from the rats before they will engage.
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waruiushiro
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.09.27 04:07:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Proxyyyy
This^ and the facted that people in 0.0 think they are uber is the joke realy, cause 95% of them cant pvp the rest are in pvp focused alliances like cry havoc ,pl ,tri ,minor threat...
In 0.0 skill doesnt win more or less numbers and logistics i.e. how many ships can be replaced and fielded in a timely fasion.
The majority of the best pvp'ers are in low sec, and are pirates.
i know this cause when i roam null/sec solo i find it easy to kill people there compared to low sec. and piracy has changed, now more than ever pirates are fighting each other and almost never engaging neutrals, mainly cause they tend to stay away from low sec.
Faction warfare is as lame as null sec, in that i mean the quality of pilots is largely low, and they use numbers to compensate for this, indeed many wont undock unless within a large group/fleet up. "NOT UNLIKE 0.0"
Its always funny how pilots in null sec hate pirates and low sec and look down on them, but praise pirate aliances like pl and look up to them.
PL even recruites threw its pirate alt corp SNIGWAFFE instead of tainting them self with to many bad pilots from 0.0
Its realy funny when you think about it, but keep on thinking null sec is uber = )
I dunno man, FW doesn't really have the dedicated leadership that nullsec does. In null you get a lot of attitude-heavy pilots who do nothing but carefully orchestrated blob ganks.
FW is blobs too, but there's a lot more individual skill involved because your hand isn't necessarily being held. Decent pilots can play an active role because there's usually a void to fill, it's more of a collective fleet effort and its easier to be a part of the bigger picture rather than just fade into the background.
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Baruc
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.09.28 12:30:00 -
[125]
Well first,
THANK YOU to the people who turned this QQ fest into intermittent bits of coherent discussion.
To the rest, ENOUGH WITH THE QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ ALREADY!!!!
I joined FW about 3 days ago cause I was bored in high sec due to the complete lack of decent PvP, and I had left 0.0 due to the never ending blobs and POS shooting.
So here I am in day 3, I have 21 kills (not epic but kills none the less) and most were quite fun. Day 1 I was involved in a minmi carrier kill. We warped my carrier to a guy behind him and carrier bowled him 60km off the station, then brought the pain. It was awesome fun! That aside IÆve been in some nice fights as well as being blobÆd a couple times. Such is PeeVeePee no?
Since this thread is about whether FW is still going strong I would say ôthe proof is in the puddingö. There are kills / deaths every day, there are some ppl who roam in small gangs or solo. There are blobs from BOTH SIDES. And there are some carriers sitting on stations every once in a while (mine included). So ya its still going strong and I hope / expect to get many more nice fights and maby even bowl a couple more capital ships in the future.
LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW
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Zen Guerrilla
Minmatar Mindfunk
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Posted - 2009.09.28 16:08:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Baruc LESS QQ MOAR PEW PEW
I second that. Let's all just cut the crap here and let the guns do the talking. ----------------------------- Pew pew!
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The Yzzerman
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2009.10.02 13:21:00 -
[127]
I think the hammer are about too hit back again. To be continued......
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:25:00 -
[128]
Let's see less whining and more fighting. People always complain about being blobbed or the enemy not meeting them on their own terms. However, crying or goading the enemy is not going to make them engage, and blobbing is a fact of life and everyone does it.
So the Minmatar only fly small ships and the Amarr don't leave home without their precious Guardians. The fact of the matter is that neither side wants to abandon their preferred tactics to get action, but unfortunately, this is exactly what you need to do. If the Minmatar want to attack the repper fleets, they need to get into bigger ships, or neut the hell out of those logistics ships. If the Amarr want to fight the Minmatar, they're going to have to get into smaller ship fleets now and again. If no-one will engage your fleet, why form it? Surely it's better to abandon the reppers for once and increase the chance of a fight. It does mean an increased risk, but then, you might get some action.
It comes down to this: do you want the action, coupled with the risk, or do you want to play it safe and avoid any kind of combat?
Both sides are guilty of stubbornly sticking to one tactic, and one tactic only. This game evolves, and so do the tactics.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:41:00 -
[129]
Last night was an interesting example actually. SF pilots got mustered for action when one of our directors noticed a large Amarrian battleship-centred warfleet trolling around the warzone including many of our actual war targets. Minmatar were raising a fleet to counter but were somewhat outgunned by the Amarrian ship classes and the Caldari group that was obviously cooperating with the 24th and looking to pincer the TLF.
Anway, we raised a moderate-sized battleship group of our own backed by a pair of carriers ready to jump-in and raise the stakes if the battle happened on a gate. The TLF continued to muster their own forces and the 24th/StatePro forces decided to fortify a major unrestricted complex in Anka system to make their stand in.
I imagine both sides were effectively scouting the other so the relative numbers are no secret. It was pretty even in absolute hull mumbers with the 24th/StatePro having more logistics ships/battleships and the TLF/SF side having the bonus of obvious carrier support.
The reason the battle didn't happen however was the chosen ground of the 24th's fleet commander. Forming up inside a major unrestricted provides some significant bonuses to his forces:
1. warp in is preset so the defenders can spread their tackle -> dps -> remote rep in staggered ranges from the offensive arrival point.
2. Major unrestricted aren't completely unrestricted (they don't allow cynos for example) so our carriers would have to slow boat in and would be a long way from the enemy logistics.
3. Amarrian NPCs will be shooting all non-amarrians (relatively minor in a battle of this size but still relevant).
---
So the effect of one of two roughly equal forces choosing to hole up in a poweful defensible position is to face the aggressor with the choice of either a) not engaging or b) engaging and getting slaughtered. And unsurprisingly the TLF commander chose to remain mobile outside the plex and wait for the 24th to move from their foxhole (knowing that there is an absolute upper limit on how long you can keep 100+ players from amarr/caldari faction warfare boxed up in a plex with no fighting :)
Eventually the 24th/StatePro realized that our side wasn't going to jump in to their complex to get slaughtered on prepared ground and instead warped away to hisec and escaped.
So nobody got a fight - but it was still an interesting bit of tactical manouver and brinksmanship. I think if we'd had twice the numbers it would have been a no-brainer and we should have assaulted but given the balance of forces was so even it was the right call on the part of the TLF commander to wait the 24th out and keep space superiority post Amarrian retreat.
Its also interesting in the demonstration of how to setup a huge fleet battle in FW - its not enough to just put 100 guys in a plex and smack-talk the enemy into attacking - you have to present an inviting battle that "looks winnable" if you want to sucker people into this kind of thing - especially when the aggressor has no real reason or motive to fight on disadventageous ground in the current occupancy stalemate with no real changes occuring.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Little Feathers
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:41:00 -
[130]
As I have zero experience in FW, I was wanting to ask a question: If I were to join Minmatar in FW for a while, then decide I want to join a group of pilots on the Amarr side (ie. switch to Amarr myself), would that be possible? Or would the Amarr navies rip me to pieces for my prior Minmatar activities before I could join up? In essence, does FW activity necessitate a long-term loss of standing with the opposing side - even after retirement?
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The Yzzerman
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2009.10.05 18:26:00 -
[131]
I have to say that it could have been a epic battle for amarr/minmatar, but sadly it didnt happen. I will not flame/blame anyone for it.
Just I am sure it will in a soon future going to happen.
Hail Hoffa...
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.05 19:15:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Jade Constantine The Stalemate
Unrestricted majors are probably the only place where I wouldn't fight, but not for the reasons you mention because they are more or less invalid. The main reason it was chosen I suspect was to be away from sentries so Matari supporters such as yourself might be engaged freely by everyone.
1+2: All FW beacons can be warped to at range, you basically have a situation where the enemy can come in at ANY point within 100km of the warp-in marker ... that is a massive amount of space to cover. 3: NPCs don't fire unless "activated", if no Matari pilot has been inside capture range or fired on them the navy vessels will idle perpetually.
From the chatter in militia at the time in question, the fleets sounded pretty equal, would have been one hell of a battle had it happened, but it fizzled like so many other of the overdone weekend wind-ups have
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.06 01:28:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 06/10/2009 01:29:11
Originally by: Soulitice Edited by: Soulitice on 26/09/2009 23:37:18 It seems like too much emphasis is put into the blob in FW. FW isn't won by random slow moving blobs of boredom. Why do people seem to not care about the plex? I haven't FW in about a year so maybe the rules have changed, but I reacall you won systems by plexing, not by killing the other militia.
Why are plex a dirty word?
A. No one except CEOs cares about faction standings. B. There are no rewards. C. Ranks are meaningless. D. Most people come to FW with the paradigm that plex = PvE and don't realise it's a focal point for PvP in FW.
There needs to be a reason for the enemy to stop you from capturing.
edit: oh and what does capturing a system do anyway? Anything? Nope.....
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Mutnin
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.10.06 02:36:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Why are plex a dirty word?
A. No one except CEOs cares about faction standings. B. There are no rewards. C. Ranks are meaningless. D. Most people come to FW with the paradigm that plex = PvE and don't realise it's a focal point for PvP in FW.
There needs to be a reason for the enemy to stop you from capturing.
edit: oh and what does capturing a system do anyway? Anything? Nope.....
Plexing does equal PVE in FW, because most of the people plexing run around in their nano frigs or ceptors. This way they can orbit the button speed tanking the NPC's but almost always run at first sight of a enemy.
Mission plexes are even worse. However I can't say I really blame them, because plexes are a bad method of trying to force PVP. The reason being, the NPC's offer the defenders a hell of a large advantage in smaller fights.
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2009.10.06 07:51:00 -
[135]
It was a real shame that fight didn't happen on Sunday night. I really don't know who would have won though the SF carriers may have tipped the balance.
Both fleets had strong logistics, ewar and DPS... Would certainly have been a whole lot of fun whichever way it went.
Oh well, maybe next time. --------------------------------------
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Jelosavich
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Posted - 2009.10.06 19:24:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Stuff
As said before, those points are largely invalid as to fighting in a PLEX. As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet) and the 30ish SF that were reported. And besides your point, most of the NPCs were destroyed because they had been attacking the Caldari ships while they were in the plex.
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2009.10.07 07:43:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Jelosavich
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Stuff
As said before, those points are largely invalid as to fighting in a PLEX. As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet) and the 30ish SF that were reported. And besides your point, most of the NPCs were destroyed because they had been attacking the Caldari ships while they were in the plex.
Numbers were approx 100 on each side.
Minmatar + Star Fraction VS Caldari + Amarr (As far as I know there were no Galante around, certainly never saw any)
I think Amarr/Caldari had an advantage in BS & BC sized hulls but SF had their carriers ready to go. Not sure on any of this though cos it's hard to get exact counts with fleets that big. Would certainly have been fun. --------------------------------------
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.10.07 13:42:00 -
[138]
Welll to fight against 3 forces with carrier backup would be pointless. So minmatar strategy to outblob us didnt worked its just shame they didnt realise it for 2 hours of waiting.
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Ocerdyn
V I R I I
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Posted - 2009.10.07 13:47:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Ambo
Originally by: Jelosavich
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Stuff
As said before, those points are largely invalid as to fighting in a PLEX. As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet) and the 30ish SF that were reported. And besides your point, most of the NPCs were destroyed because they had been attacking the Caldari ships while they were in the plex.
Numbers were approx 100 on each side.
Minmatar + Star Fraction VS Caldari + Amarr (As far as I know there were no Galante around, certainly never saw any)
I think Amarr/Caldari had an advantage in BS & BC sized hulls but SF had their carriers ready to go. Not sure on any of this though cos it's hard to get exact counts with fleets that big. Would certainly have been fun.
How's the LAG in Faction Warfare these days? Last time I left, there was so much lag/desync/whateveryoucallit from a 30 on 30, the people would get kicked from the game.
A 100 on 100, if actually took place, would likely cause a node-crash in those days...
Any better?
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2009.10.07 15:32:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda Welll to fight against 3 forces with carrier backup would be pointless. So minmatar strategy to outblob us didnt worked its just shame they didnt realise it for 2 hours of waiting.
3 forces? Perhaps you missed the bit where I said Galante weren't involved?
As I've already said, fleet sizes were about the same, would have been a close one. Our strategy wasn't to outblob you, it was to have a fun fight. Sadly, it didn't happen because the stakes were too high and the forces so evenly matched that neither side was willing to take any uneccessary risks.
Originally by: Ocerdyn
How's the LAG in Faction Warfare these days? Last time I left, there was so much lag/desync/whateveryoucallit from a 30 on 30, the people would get kicked from the game.
A 100 on 100, if actually took place, would likely cause a node-crash in those days...
Any better?
It's actually really good now.
When I first joined, it was a few weeks before the lag fix and I had a couple of lag crazy deaths in fleets of about 30.
Now, I've certainly been in fleet fights with around 100 ships total with no issues. Not had anything quite as big as what almost went down last Sunday though. (200 odd total) --------------------------------------
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:05:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 07/10/2009 18:06:33 Don't really get why anyone would bother trying to find a person to blame or a moral victory in a situation where there was neither. On paper the two sides were about as evenly matched as you are going to get with out setting down rules before the engagement. We heard reports of the Amarr numbering up to 100-120 once the caldari were included and they a greater denisty of BS/BCs, we had around 70 and 30 SF including carrier support. Each side would have held an advantage in their chosen ground, understandably neither FC wished to give this up so why all the finger pointing ?
Perhaps if the two fleets had met before getting a chance to choose their ground this fight may have happened, but they did not sadly, but there's really no point trying to find fault there. Had 1 of the FCs said "**** it" and given up the advantage to get a fight and lost, the same ppl finger pointing would prolly be crowing about fail FCing.
Lets hope that next time fate intervenes to allow an epic engagement, but until then I just want to say good job to both FCs for getting out 2 awesome fleets and also to the minnie fleet for the level of discipline we showed whilst our balls got bluer and bluer.
o7
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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Ocerdyn
V I R I I
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Posted - 2009.10.07 19:19:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Insa Rexion Edited by: Insa Rexion on 07/10/2009 18:06:33 Don't really get why anyone would bother trying to find a person to blame or a moral victory in a situation where there was neither. On paper the two sides were about as evenly matched as you are going to get with out setting down rules before the engagement. We heard reports of the Amarr numbering up to 100-120 once the caldari were included and they a greater denisty of BS/BCs, we had around 70 and 30 SF including carrier support. Each side would have held an advantage in their chosen ground, understandably neither FC wished to give this up so why all the finger pointing ?
Perhaps if the two fleets had met before getting a chance to choose their ground this fight may have happened, but they did not sadly, but there's really no point trying to find fault there. Had 1 of the FCs said "**** it" and given up the advantage to get a fight and lost, the same ppl finger pointing would prolly be crowing about fail FCing.
Lets hope that next time fate intervenes to allow an epic engagement, but until then I just want to say good job to both FCs for getting out 2 awesome fleets and also to the minnie fleet for the level of discipline we showed whilst our balls got bluer and bluer.
o7
Who had more Logistics? |
Jelosavich
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Posted - 2009.10.07 19:35:00 -
[143]
We definitely didn't have 100, and from what we saw, we were evenly matched in numbers against the minmatar alone. Add to that 30 SF with carriers and there was no way we were going to engage on your terms. But yes, too bad there wasn't a fight.
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Captain Tardbar
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:04:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Captain Tardbar on 07/10/2009 20:04:05
Originally by: Droog 1 Edited by: Droog 1 on 16/09/2009 11:08:36
Originally by: Allison A'vani but since the Caldari technically beat the Gallente I'm assuming that there isn't too much fighting going on there (correct me if I'm wrong).
You are wrong. Caldari die every day to the Gallentes who have adapted and use superior tactics.
Tama gate camp!
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:22:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Jelosavich We definitely didn't have 100, and from what we saw, we were evenly matched in numbers against the minmatar alone. Add to that 30 SF with carriers and there was no way we were going to engage on your terms. But yes, too bad there wasn't a fight.
Originally by: Ocerdyn
Who had more Logistics?
Jebus guys, get over it, I don't think anyone "facts" are going to to tie up are they. How many each side had, how many logis they had yada yada yada. Someone even tried to claim that the gallente were backing us up and they were not anywhere near this fight. fact remains that we both amassed large fleets that for fairly understandable reasons did not engage (a shame I know). But I am afraid you will just have to accept that both sides went home without bragging rights or moral victory. Neither FC was under any obligation to give away the advantage of their chosen ground to the other side in this particular standoff...deal with it and stop QQing
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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Ocerdyn
V I R I I
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Posted - 2009.10.07 20:34:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Originally by: Jelosavich We definitely didn't have 100, and from what we saw, we were evenly matched in numbers against the minmatar alone. Add to that 30 SF with carriers and there was no way we were going to engage on your terms. But yes, too bad there wasn't a fight.
Originally by: Ocerdyn
Who had more Logistics?
Jebus guys, get over it, I don't think anyone "facts" are going to to tie up are they. How many each side had, how many logis they had yada yada yada. Someone even tried to claim that the gallente were backing us up and they were not anywhere near this fight. fact remains that we both amassed large fleets that for fairly understandable reasons did not engage (a shame I know). But I am afraid you will just have to accept that both sides went home without bragging rights or moral victory. Neither FC was under any obligation to give away the advantage of their chosen ground to the other side in this particular standoff...deal with it and stop QQing
I'm not even in FW. I wasn't attempting to shift blame on why the fight didn't happen. I was saying, whomever had more logistics would have won. For every 1 competant logistics pilot, I'd feel safe to engage 5-10 additional contacts depending on ship types. So if the numbers were equal and one side had more logistics and they had a decent FC, then chances are, they would have won. Keep that in mind next time you guys are neck to neck in pilots. And maybe one side will actually engage.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Icarus Prime
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Posted - 2009.10.07 21:18:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda
Originally by: Mutnin ...
Well you know each militia has around 200 people online so each militia has potential to form up a decent fleets.
Amarrians bring out the big stuff and t2 ships couse we like also to fly those things and not just to station spin them around.
Minmatars use trash ships with explanation that they can pvp more and afford more losses. But they forget that each time they loose a fleet of t1 ships fitted with t2 they oculd rather invest money to t2 ships with t2 setup and with much better performance.
Its just basic clash of ideologies. Amarrians loose command ships, hacs, assault frigs and minmatar loose fleets of rifters and trashers. But after day is over minmatar have always more loses couse instead of investing to normal stuff they loose tons of ships which creates isk sink on their killboard.
Because I'm a pretty crap PvPer, I gave the whole FW thing a good thinking as to how people like me could play relatively often and not lose so much isk that they would have to take long breaks to mission/mine/trade whatever to make up the losses (yes, I know all the hotshots make 1 billion isk an hour and I suck at that too, but whatever). I've been killed in rifters and I've been killed in a 35 million isk rupture. I can do that for a while but then I have to go and grind. So I'd rather fly cheap ships.
As for Amarr being more organized, I sadly have to agree with that. The last time I lost my Rupture, it was NOT a BS gang, but rather drake/harby/fleet stabber/punisher and various tacklers. And they had a tackler on EVERY gate back to Minnie space and I was lucky that my pod warped to jump range every time. The Amarr intel is also far better as they almost always have alts up in Minnie fleet channels basically relaying everything that the Minnies do.
So hat off to them. Doesn't mean I'll stop doing FW though. I think, in my somewhat ******ed way, that it's fun.
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Jelosavich
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Posted - 2009.10.08 00:30:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Jebus guys, get over it, I don't think anyone "facts" are going to to tie up are they. How many each side had, how many logis they had yada yada yada.
English. Please.
Originally by: Insa Rexion Someone even tried to claim that the gallente were backing us up and they were not anywhere near this fight.
Here is what was said.
Originally by: Jelosavich As for numbers, as far as I was aware we were outgunned significantly by the minmatar/gallente (not sure if the gals were there, but we assumed they were because of the size of the enemy fleet)
So... no.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.10.08 06:26:00 -
[149]
I think the point i was trying to make is fairly clear from your own quote... you ASSUMED the gallente were there, you did not know and in fact they were not. This is a pretty good demonstration of how sketchy intel was at the time and how ppls recollections of the event differ. The reports coming to us while in fleet were that WE were outnumbered and we may or may not have been. This is why it's pointless to attempt to come away from this with some kind of moral high ground or accusations of blobbing. i don't think anyone knows who really had the upper hand, in truth, only an engagement would have revealed the answer to that question. So what's the point of all the ifs buts and maybes... none far as i can tell.
Let's just look forward to the next time and hope we get to smash the crap out of each other, that's why we play this game after all.. see you on the field,
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.10.08 06:32:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Ocerdyn
I'm not even in FW. I wasn't attempting to shift blame on why the fight didn't happen. I was saying, whomever had more logistics would have won. For every 1 competant logistics pilot, I'd feel safe to engage 5-10 additional contacts depending on ship types. So if the numbers were equal and one side had more logistics and they had a decent FC, then chances are, they would have won. Keep that in mind next time you guys are neck to neck in pilots. And maybe one side will actually engage.
Sorry mate, thought you were a militia member QQing about logistics. Pls accept my apology :)
I has 17 XBOX can I get sov ??
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