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Cahvus
Hedron Industries High Rollers
0
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Posted - 2012.06.06 04:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey There S&M,
Longtime lurker, first time poster so here goes:
I want to get into Null ----> Highsec arbitrage. I originally wanted to do it using a JF. That proved to be too time consuming/expensive (at least until I make enough to buy a JF character) so now I want to do the same just in smaller quantities using a Blockade Runner. Now, my question is, what are the relative merits of each one? A lot of the info around the net is older and thus runs the risk of being outdated (especially with the release of inferno). I like the Prowler because I already have ~3days of training for it done. The rest are ~17 days (Crane is ~16). I will primarily be running the pipe from my nullsec systems, into lowsec and up to Jita/Rens/Hek/etc. I obviously want to maximize cargo, while at the same time having a good amount of security and speed should I run into the gatecamp/stray neut. Thankfully the pipeline has I usually use has become more blue to me so security is less of an issue than before. Also, to you blockade runner Veterans, any tips/tricks you could elaborate on? Fits you've used to escape sticky situations? What is a MWD+Cloak trick? Any other advice?
Many thanks,
Cahvus |
Hoshi
Medical Mechanics Severasse Militarized Mining Union
13
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Posted - 2012.06.06 12:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
I can only fly the crane so I can't comment too much at the others but looking at the stats: Crane and Prowler have the best base agility and cargo space (the 2 important stats) but fewer low slots to effect it. In practice it doesn't seem to be much real difference.
Fitted for size - Cargo (align time) Prowler: 8.7km3 (5.1 s) Crane 9.4km3 (5.2 s) Viator: 10.3km3 (5.7 s) Prorator: 10.9km3 (5.5 s)
Fitted agility - Cargo (align time) Prowler: 4km3 (3.1 s) Crane: 4.4km3 (3.1 s) Viator: 3.8km3 (3.2 s) Prorator: 3.1km3 (3.0 s)
Not seen in these numbers are the fact that the Prorator has the lowest base speed and highest mass which means reduced mwd effectiveness. As you can see there are not that much difference and if I would have make choice which one is the best I would say Prowler due to it's high base cargo and high speed.
The cloak + mwd trick in its general form does not effect covert ops cloaking ships. There are other tricks instead but that's another story. "Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason." |
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
30
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Posted - 2012.06.06 12:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hoshi wrote:I can only fly the crane so I can't comment too much at the others but looking at the stats: Crane and Prowler have the best base agility and cargo space (the 2 important stats) but fewer low slots to effect it. In practice it doesn't seem to be much real difference.
Fitted for size - Cargo (align time) Prowler: 8.7km3 (5.1 s) Crane 9.4km3 (5.2 s) Viator: 10.3km3 (5.7 s) Prorator: 10.9km3 (5.5 s)
Fitted agility - Cargo (align time) Prowler: 4km3 (3.1 s) Crane: 4.4km3 (3.1 s) Viator: 3.8km3 (3.2 s) Prorator: 3.1km3 (3.0 s)
Not seen in these numbers are the fact that the Prorator has the lowest base speed and highest mass which means reduced mwd effectiveness. As you can see there are not that much difference and if I would have make choice which one is the best I would say Prowler due to it's high base cargo and high speed.
The cloak + mwd trick in its general form does not effect covert ops cloaking ships. There are other tricks instead but that's another story.
Depends what you're moving. For Gallente, which produces the best haulers IMHO, I use Viator. It's pretty much uncatchable, provided you give it a Covert Ops cloak and stick 2 x Inertia Stabs and a nano-fibre in lows (I believe this is optimal in terms of align speed). You don't need the "trick" for these ships, as they have Covert Ops and can align very fast. However the volume you can carry isn't all that much (enough for loots and stuff of course).
So, there's the Occator. The Occator has bonus for armor tank and +2 warp strength. In practice in low sec the latter is useless to you, because even if he can't point you he can bump you out of align. Indeed I lost an Occator in low sec only two days ago because the attacker had an infinite point. If I'd fitted MWD and more of a tank/buffer I could have made it back to the gate however, but then he would have just jumped through with me and got me there, so it was kind-of hopeless.
So, if you're going to use the larger variant, you STILL NEED TO SCOUT AHEAD with an alt. If you're using the smaller variant, there's no need (in low sec - null watch intel for bubbles of course). |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
49
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lustralis wrote:Depends what you're moving. For Gallente, which produces the best haulers IMHO, I use Viator. It's pretty much uncatchable, provided you give it a Covert Ops cloak and stick 2 x Inertia Stabs and a nano-fibre in lows (I believe this is optimal in terms of align speed). You don't need the "trick" for these ships, as they have Covert Ops and can align very fast. However the volume you can carry isn't all that much (enough for loots and stuff of course).
So, there's the Occator. The Occator has bonus for armor tank and +2 warp strength. In practice in low sec the latter is useless to you, because even if he can't point you he can bump you out of align. Indeed I lost an Occator in low sec only two days ago because the attacker had an infinite point. If I'd fitted MWD and more of a tank/buffer I could have made it back to the gate however, but then he would have just jumped through with me and got me there, so it was kind-of hopeless.
So, if you're going to use the larger variant, you STILL NEED TO SCOUT AHEAD with an alt. If you're using the smaller variant, there's no need (in low sec - null watch intel for bubbles of course).
If by best haulers you mean "it has a tier 5 which has lots of room but generally is undertanked and useless outside hauling cheapo crap" then yes you're right. But there's more variables that can be important, AFK speed, alignment, ability to tank while still fit cargo expanders.
All blockade runners, bar a few small details, operate in the exact same way and do the exact same thing so it's not viator specific. Each of the races have their good sides and each race has a GOOD hauler and several mediocre ones so it all depends on which hauler type you're looking for and what is more important to you.
If he pointed you he couldn't have jumped due to aggression (60 seconds no jumping/docking). Amat victoria curam. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
107
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
I tend to use any of the Blockade Runners. Properly fitted, they all do the job well. The only time I would choose one over another is if I decided to haul a cruiser in a BR. Some ships just cannot get over 10k m3. I always fit cargo expander rigs on my BRs, then use agility enhancing mods in the lows.
Whenever I go somewhere new, I take the time to make tactical bookmarks whenever possible. I also scout for my BR with a CovOps pilot or a disposable frigate alt. Having an unusual direction you can warp in to the gate from can help avoid some of the nasty bubble gate camps I have seen on the pipes in different parts of 0.0.
Learning to use D-Scan to check a gang's composition is also important.
Above all, remain calm if you do jump into a camp. You have time to find the optimal way out of your situation. Use your tactical overlay to your advantage. Sometimes it's best to try to warp/cloak immediately. This is good if the gate camp is sleepy. If they are alert, however, it may be to your advantage to wait until your gate cloak is almost done. They may assume that they somehow missed you and get complacent. Look at the system statistics to see how busy it has recently been. If you recognize the alliance camping a particular gate, check their killboard to see what they've managed to kill.
Learn the aggro mechanics. If a dictor pops a bubble and you don't try to warp out of it, he isn't aggressed. Which means that if you simply burn back to the gate and try to jump back through, he can jump through with you and try to bubble you again.
A small gate camp has a relatively low chance of decloaking you once you cloak up and start getting out of a bubble. A large gate camp can often achieve this with hilarious results.
Don't be afraid to be patient. I don't mind cloaking up at a safe spot and doing something else for a few hours if it means I can avoid having to run a well-run gate camp. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
random question: can you do PI while cloaked? |
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
30
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote: All blockade runners, bar a few small details, operate in the exact same way and do the exact same thing so it's not viator specific. Each of the races have their good sides and each race has a GOOD hauler and several mediocre ones so it all depends on which hauler type you're looking for and what is more important to you.
Except something like an Occator has six lows and can carry a lot more than the best of the others, although totally defenceless/not really acting in its role.
Didn't think about the aggression timer. I could have made it...
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Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:random question: can you do PI while cloaked?
Yes aside from loading and unloading.
Low sec PI is usualy only done with Blokaderunners
Make sure you're every thing ready for that pick up drop off while laying in wait when every think is ready warp to 10Km align to a celestial or safe point, wait until you reach the 2km spot: Drag goods to or from cargo, warp to aligned point.
I use a crane
High Covert ops cloak
Mid Only MWD is importand
Low 2x Nano fiber T2 (prefer them above stabs, Stabs make you easier to be locked)
Riggs.
Medium friction nozzle's 2x
If you get caught in low and highsec in this you're doing something wrong (only real thread is undocking, use a safespot to reduse that.)
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
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Posted - 2012.06.06 13:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:Quote:random question: can you do PI while cloaked? Yes aside from loading and unloading. Low sec PI is usualy only done with Blokaderunners Make sure you're every thing ready for that pick up drop off while laying in wait when every think is ready warp to 10Km align to a celestial or safe point, wait until you reach the 2km spot: Drag goods to or from cargo, warp to aligned point. I use a crane High Covert ops cloak Mid Only MWD is importand Low 2x Nano fiber T2 (prefer them above stabs, Stabs make you easier to be locked) Riggs. Medium friction nozzle's 2x If you get caught in low and highsec in this you're doing something wrong (only real thread is undocking, use a safespot to reduse that.) thanks for the info, but i do not have transport ships trained on my PI bimbos. i can however use hoarders with stabs and a regular cloak and laugh at people who waste the time and ammo to shoot them. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
120
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Posted - 2012.06.06 14:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lustralis wrote: Indeed I lost an Occator in low sec only two days ago because the attacker had an infinite point. If I'd fitted MWD and more of a tank/buffer I could have made it back to the gate however, but then he would have just jumped through with me and got me there, so it was kind-of hopeless.
He couldn't, once he got aggression timer on you it's 30seconds to jump out . Plus in low sec he would have to move away since gate sentry would probably hurt him enough, and the red timer would still make it get sentry shots for 15min. Doesn't matter if the 30sec timer is up or not.
In null sec you don't have sentry, however the same 30sec timer to be able to jump is still applied. The only cases where you have close to no chance at all is against multi bubbled gates with lots of cans to make you uncloack (this you can be sure it's about 50% of those gate camps), and experienced smartbombing battleships camp.
Everything else is more or less experience and a little bit of luck. brb |
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
64
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Posted - 2012.06.06 15:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Im going by memory here... I think only 2 of the coverts will let you haul over 10.000 meters cubed. The Viator and the Prorator.
This is important for cruiser/recon hulls, fuel, etc. I prefer the Prorator and the skill allows us of the Itteron V in hisec.
In general, Cloaky is the best way to go. Undocking at station is the only place I ever lost one. Gates are cake. |
Kale Eledar
Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji
47
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Posted - 2012.06.06 19:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just hopping in here to remind people who aren't aware - if you are targeted, you will be unable to cloak your ship. I fly a Viator often - if it is fitted for quick align time, you will mainly just need to pop the cloak as soon as you set warp or start moving. Campers will set things around the gate (drones, jetcans etc) to decloak you, as if your ship gets within a certain range (2000, 2500? Something like that) you will be decloaked. All the haulers have their merits, but in general the amount of mid slots isn't as important, because even though you CAN shield tank your blockade runner, if it is caught, it's dead anyways. I also prefer to fit an ECM burst in the mids. This is designed to break target locks on you inside a certain range, but in all likelihood, it may not save you. Simple smart warping tactics will end up helping you more than any module. Use D-scan and know when to run. Fitting hyperspatial velocity rigs is also an option, as your warp speed will be higher than most ships except inties and covops.
I generally avoid transport ships (the other type) because although their cargo is great, you just do NOT want to get caught.
And the Itty V is a beast; bite your heathen tongue. Of course it dies easily - so use it carefully, because none of the T1 haulers are indestructible :-p The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it. See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread |
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