Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
210
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 14:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
The apoc should be able to fit 8x Megabeam II's on it, but certainly not 8x Tach II's without fitting mods.
Amarr are the only race with what's essentially a tier 4 gun in the form of the Tach. |
PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
106
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 17:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Buzzmong wrote:The apoc should be able to fit 8x Megabeam II's on it, but certainly not 8x Tach II's without fitting mods.
Amarr are the only race with what's essentially a tier 4 gun in the form of the Tach.
It's also the only race with no Tier 2 or Tier 3.
Don't forget there are only Tachs, and Mega Beams. There is no third option for beam lasers.
I would be happy if they made a third option that was a nice compromise, but the sheer fact that you can't fit JUST the guns on any amarr ship without a fitting module is ridiculous. Tachs do NOT have enough intrinsic value to warrant needing a fitting module just to fly them. With the exception to the Oracle. Why does that ship get the ability to fit them but the battleships don't?
The argument isn't "I want sniper range DPS and tank"
The argument IS "I want to fit 8 guns as the ship is supposed to be able to fit"
You can not fit a sniper apoc with T2 tachs without a fitting module. The ship doesn't have the PG to fit the Tachyons alone, let alone any other modules. |
Gally Alita
Thee Almitee Ones The Unforgiven Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 17:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Get a Naga and play like a boss |
Alara IonStorm
2387
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 18:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote: Don't forget there are only Tachs, and Mega Beams. There is no third option for beam lasers.
I would be happy if they made a third option that was a nice compromise, but the sheer fact that you can't fit JUST the guns on any amarr ship without a fitting module is ridiculous. Tachs do NOT have enough intrinsic value to warrant needing a fitting module just to fly them. With the exception to the Oracle. Why does that ship get the ability to fit them but the battleships don't?
Duel Heavy Beam Lasers.
Don't be surprised you haven't heard of them their is a reason for that. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
212
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:PinkKnife wrote: Don't forget there are only Tachs, and Mega Beams. There is no third option for beam lasers.
I would be happy if they made a third option that was a nice compromise, but the sheer fact that you can't fit JUST the guns on any amarr ship without a fitting module is ridiculous. Tachs do NOT have enough intrinsic value to warrant needing a fitting module just to fly them. With the exception to the Oracle. Why does that ship get the ability to fit them but the battleships don't?
Duel Heavy Beam Lasers. Don't be surprised you haven't heard of them their is a reason for that.
Alara beat me to it.
The use of Dual Heavy Beam's is rare. |
Wolfic
EldarRiders Stainwagon.
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Buzzmong wrote:The apoc should be able to fit 8x Megabeam II's on it, but certainly not 8x Tach II's without fitting mods.
Amarr are the only race with what's essentially a tier 4 gun in the form of the Tach. It's also the only race with no Tier 2 or Tier 3. Don't forget there are only Tachs, and Mega Beams. There is no third option for beam lasers. I would be happy if they made a third option that was a nice compromise, but the sheer fact that you can't fit JUST the guns on any amarr ship without a fitting module is ridiculous. Tachs do NOT have enough intrinsic value to warrant needing a fitting module just to fly them. With the exception to the Oracle. Why does that ship get the ability to fit them but the battleships don't? The argument isn't "I want sniper range DPS and tank" The argument IS "I want to fit 8 guns as the ship is supposed to be able to fit" You can not fit a sniper apoc with T2 tachs without a fitting module. The ship doesn't have the PG to fit the Tachyons alone, let alone any other modules. The apoc is a tier 2 battleship and the only tier 2 battleship that has 8 turrets. So fit 6 tachs and pretend you're in a Tempest, or fit 7 mega beams and pretend you're in a Megathron, the damage should come out fairly close. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Bellum Esca
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Nightmare.... that is all. |
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Why fit t2 Tachs anyway? You get maybe 10% damage out of it at the cost of a fitting mod. Or you can lose the fitting mod and get an extra heat sink for more damage than you just lost. You also spend less on the guns themselves. Not like T2 LR ammo is particularly great for lasers. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:because falloff = 100% dps ?
Please... lowest DPS of all guns that also fight in falloff for even less DPS. Minnie ships finally are being flown as an alternative to Gallente/Amarr and suddenly 'winmatar' whines start to appear.
No. Range.
Damage starts in falloff for lasers too. Cane has 30km range easily with Barrage. If range of Scorch crystal would get reduced lasers would be quite close to useless. Remember that Scroch is only reason short range lasers are competitive with other short range turrets.
Maeltstome wrote:Stop looking at EFT and peeing your pants and get into the real world.
Well, actually I sit currently in my Cane. No offense taken. |
Veryez
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 05:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Hello The Apocalypse Battleship have Excllent bonuses to make him a sniper. But it is impossible to fit eight T2 Tachyon on it without Reactor Control Unit or Ancillary Curent Router even with all skills at V.
I think it is really strange. It is as if creating a sport car without the place for a good motor.
Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/80584/page/1#3
Every 3 or 4 years someone else brings this up.... |
|
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
120
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 08:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Veryez wrote: Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's
Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing. |
Headerman1
The New Era C0NVICTED
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 08:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
0/10 |
Cardano Firesnake
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 10:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Veryez wrote: Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's
Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing.
Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon. It seems that these guns are simply useless :-). Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say. I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition... |
Bouh Revetoile
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon. It seems that these guns are simply useless :-). Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say. I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition...
Perhaps because pulse with scorch already hit at 70km and hence there is no need for a long range weapon for amarr ?
If some FC start to consider a doctrine to fight at 100km and want amarr, then you will start to see beam or tachyon used ; for any lower range, there is scorch.
Problem of beam or tachyon not being used is caused by scorch, not by their fitting requirement. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
137
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 12:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Veryez wrote: Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's
Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing. Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon. It seems that these guns are simply useless :-). Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say. I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition...
The problem is players.
Tachyon is +20% dmg for almost same range than Rails and a better tracking. Now try to explain to someone that you don't need to fit 8 hard points with those to get a much BETTER DPS TRACKING and RAGE and the only thing they can do is cry when for most of those they don't even have the required skills on top.
Hybrids AWU 4 it's not an option, 5 it's not an option when you want T2 hulls properly fitted with highest tier weapons, if you don't you have to compensate your fitting abilities with faction/dead space mods witch always leads to tears.
Lasers usually have cap bonus, however how many have related ship skills up to 5, gunnery to 5? Yes those are extremely hard to fit, but a 20%+dps per gun making his alpha the best after Projectiles and better dps than rails technically.
If people want to fly omgfpwn buttons "I win" go angel and officer/dead space fit them.
brb |
Veryez
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 13:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Veryez wrote: Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's
Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing. Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon. It seems that these guns are simply useless :-). Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say. I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition...
I didn't realize you were trying to discuss the usefullness of the weapon, you asked why you have to fit an RCU to put them on an Apoc. The answer is they are the biggest Battleship guns in the game. They are bigger than 425's and 1400's. An Apoc has no issues fitting 8xMega Beams, which are the equivalent guns to 1400's and 425's.
If CCP wanted to put 1600's or 500's in the game, then by all means they should have difficult fitting requirements. Besides stop complaining, Amarr have 3 very useful battleships, and the buffs lasers recieved a few years ago made them very useful. The geddon is a fantastic DPS ship, the Apoc actually has 3 bonuses (look at the boosts it got over the years) and the Abaddon can field a great tank or DPS platform if it desires. Only since the advent of on-grid warping have 1400's become valuable in fleets, before that hybrids and lasers were king. Next time you siege a POS in a Battleship, try it with a laser ship, then come back here and tell us how they are..... |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
92
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sigh, firstly, Apoc Snipers are used as counter Tier 3 work for armour fleets regularly, generally they look like this.
[Apocalypse, Sniperpoc] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II Heat Sink II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot]
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Thats 600+ Dps with a Long range weapon, that is mad bro.
No its not in the top 20 on Eve Kill, but thats because Alpha Maels, Rail Rokhs and Tengus/Drakes are FOTM right now, its not "cus lazers are ****" its because everybody is sucking up to the big teat of the shield tank at this moment in time.
Now quit your bitching, Tachyons are awesome, there also hard as **** to fit, onoes.
\Thread |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
136
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:[Apocalypse, Sniperpoc]Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] This is a bad fit and you should be ashamed.
[Apocalypse, anti oracle] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Ancillary Current Router I
|
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
92
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:[Apocalypse, Sniperpoc]Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] This is a bad fit and you should be ashamed. [Apocalypse, anti oracle] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Ancillary Current Router I
Onoes and empty high slot, lets post one with similar DPS, less Alpha and Range, but its better, because it doesnt have an empty high slot. |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
136
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Onoes and empty high slot, lets post one with similar DPS, less Alpha and Range, but its better, because it doesnt have an empty high slot. 601dps vs 641 isnt that "similar". But let's talk about range : 52+32 vs 47+26 (or with Aurora : 188+32 vs 171+26. Ah it's not similar, right ? You're right about the alpha, but bewteen a low alpha fit and a low alpha fit... Yes It's not the point. |
|
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
92
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
I prefer the extra range tbh, and how are you getting 601, im getting 627. |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
136
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
You forgot a drone maybe ? |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
92
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:You forgot a drone maybe ?
Herp a derp a derp |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
591
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:Well why creating a ship that cannot fit its natural weapons? You can easily put 8 tachyon on an Oracle.
Exactly why he Tier3 BC are so horribly unbalanced. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
121
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 16:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Veryez wrote: I didn't realize you were trying to discuss the usefullness of the weapon, you asked why you have to fit an RCU to put them on an Apoc. The answer is they are the biggest Battleship guns in the game. They are bigger than 425's and 1400's. An Apoc has no issues fitting 8xMega Beams
The Apoc won't even fit 8 mega beams. The topic title may aswell be 'Apocalypse cannot fit T2 mega beams'
Veryez wrote: the Apoc actually has 3 bonuses (look at the boosts it got over the years) and the Abaddon can field a great tank or DPS platform if it desires. Only since the advent of on-grid warping have 1400's become valuable in fleets, before that hybrids and lasers were king. Next time you siege a POS in a Battleship, try it with a laser ship, then come back here and tell us how they are.....
the Apoc with 3 boni still doesn't see any use except for the odd pos bash where a cap stable, ammoless gun platform might be needed and no caps are available.
I'ld say 1400's have become valuable since the Mael and that, apart from the 1400s, long range sniping has been dead since on grid probing/warping.
Danny John-Peter, I didn't know apoc's were anti-tier3's now. It sounds actually interesting. Could you show me a fleet fight or battlereport where they were (succesfully) used in this way? |
Veryez
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 19:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:the Apoc with 3 boni still doesn't see any use except for the odd pos bash where a cap stable, ammoless gun platform might be needed and no caps are available.
How exactly do you think we take down POS's in wormholes? |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 21:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tachs are fine. No one really uses them anymore for their purpose, extreme sniping. While they work fine on glass cannons like geddons and baddons, I would prefer to out range everything.
[Apocalypse, Ex Sniper] Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Energy Collision Accelerator I Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
DPS: 413 VOL: 2841 (not awesome)
With this fit, you can sit 231km from target and be within optimal. Your targeting range is 249km (max). If you prep the battlefield with the right tacticals you can dance around a fleet with impunity. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |
Ovo Mole
Bordel da A.S.A.E.
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 12:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sorry for the noob questions, new guy here.
I've always considered aiming for a sniper progression in this game, in terms of skill planning, etc. However, the main usage of of a sniping ship for me would be, at first, to try to solo L4.
I've seen the proposed fits in this thread, each one giving different degrees of cap sustainability, DPS and HP. My question is: when considering using the tachys for sniping, and taking into account that according to this thread you need to make a "glass-cannon" to have them fitted, is this only viable for small-gang scenarios, or are you also able to use them for solo L4? If yes, how would you maintain the 231km range from fast frigates/cruisers that often appear in missions, or how would you get away from them when the mission starts with you in the middle of enemy ships?
Thanks for reading |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
281
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 13:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:No its not in the top 20 on Eve Kill, but thats because Alpha Maels, Rail Rokhs and Tengus/Drakes are FOTM right now, its not "cus lazers are ****" its because everybody is sucking up to the big teat of the shield tank at this moment in time.
Artillery has been the "flavor of the month" every month since their alpha was improved.
Railguns were improved 8 months ago and have a solid place in the top 20 since then. Should we chalk this up to "flavor of the month" 8 times in a row, too?
Beam lasers have been absent from the top 20 for a long time despite the overwhelming popularity of shield tanks which they are best against, and despite the top 20 showing that sniper weapons are in demand and getting kills.
But nevermind, let's not get reality in the way of your fantasy. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846 |
Airto TLA
Puppeteers of Doom Real Life Rejects
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 15:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tachs are cool, and are probaly the best overall gun, but nobody wants the best overall gun, they want the one that does the job they are currently trying to right now the best. For sniping, you want alpha so lg artillery is the best. If you want to hold a spot and slug pulse lasers (slight damage and large fitting/traking advantage over tachs), armor hacs pulse lasers, sheild swarms autocannons, drake blob heavey missles, and max gank Blasters
The amazing thing about the highest killing wep list is the number of repeats - where the tech 2 type of the wep is tops then its meta 3 and 4 variant or caliibre downgrade is also on the list.
So very few people use beam lasers, large autocannons, Cruise/Torpedoes, HAMS. That is about half the cruiser and up class armament.
I am still amazed no one has figured out away to make the Tach oracle work in vast numbers, it would seem to work similar to railguns, . |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |