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Gottii
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.21 16:05:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Gottii on 21/09/2009 16:05:03 Yes, Eve is an MMO. It was designed as such. Devs will do everything they can to make sure it remains an MMO. And that includes cattle-prodding people to join player-run organizations.
Its unrealistic to want to play an MMO solo.
Let me put it this way, if everyone played EVE the way the OP does, then EVE as a community and as a game would fall apart. Therefor, the way he plays is wrong at the macro level, which is what the Devs should and do care about. That is all.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.21 16:30:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Gottii Its unrealistic to want to play an MMO solo.
Not really. Life is the ultimate massively multiplayer experience, and you see more individuals doing well than you see groups.
If you want to look at the animal kingdom, the smarter more specialized animals do fine solo, while the weaker have to work in packs and fight amongst themselves over everything.
Just because there's other people around is no evidence we all have to work together to do well. The concept is unnatural even.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2009.09.21 16:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Gottii Its unrealistic to want to play an MMO solo.
Not really. Life is the ultimate massively multiplayer experience, and you see more individuals doing well than you see groups.
If you want to look at the animal kingdom, the smarter more specialized animals do fine solo, while the weaker have to work in packs and fight amongst themselves over everything.
Just because there's other people around is no evidence we all have to work together to do well. The concept is unnatural even.
Not really. Ever heard of families? There's your basic MMO unit, if we're comparing Life to MMOs, which is fail to start with.
And I'd like to see you name some individuals who do better than groups that are actually solo'ing life. Are you thinking sports stars like Tiger Woods? Nope. There's support there. (Agents, advertising, etc, etc.)
Are you thinking billionaires like Bill Gates? Nope. He built a company, hence MMO.
Who really? Presidents? With their cabinet and campaign teams?
Animal kingdom, the smarter more specialize animals do fine solo? Weaker animals, like the lion and the elephant have to work in packs and fight amongst themselves?
No, actually, humans are social creatures. Bad things start happening to ourselves and our pschye if we truly isolate ourselves.
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Serge Bastana
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:11:00 -
[64]
Even in prison isolation is seen as a punishment. Now I have days where I really don't want much to do with people and sometimes prefer doing my own thing, but if I really wanted no human contact at all would I seriously subscribe to this game?
There will always be loners, but I do find it amusing that they use the label 'lone wolf'. Somehow it doesn't quite fit, does it
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Gottii
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:13:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Gottii Its unrealistic to want to play an MMO solo.
Not really. Life is the ultimate massively multiplayer experience, and you see more individuals doing well than you see groups.
If you want to look at the animal kingdom, the smarter more specialized animals do fine solo, while the weaker have to work in packs and fight amongst themselves over everything.
Just because there's other people around is no evidence we all have to work together to do well. The concept is unnatural even.
Yes, its UNNATURAL for people to work together. In fact, Im sure a lot of successful people work completely and utterly alone. I mean, I'm sure they grow their own food, build their own houses, produce every consumer good in their home, build their own businesses (while being their own and only customer), self-educated themselves on everything, provide their own entertainment, provide for their own protection, raise a family on their own, then reproduce asexually to boot.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:15:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega Ever heard of families? There's your basic MMO unit, if we're comparing Life to MMOs
I've never heard of corps or 'guilds' kicking people out when they reach a certain point, and forcing them to make a place for themselves in the world, which is what happens among species strong enough to go solo.
Quote: And I'd like to see you name some individuals who do better than groups that are actually solo'ing life.
Most real world CEOs now make 500 times more money than the people who work for them. Just because they're all under the same roof doesn't mean the workers aren't being used by a soloist.
Quote: Animal kingdom, the smarter more specialize animals do fine solo? Weaker animals, like the lion and the elephant have to work in packs and fight amongst themselves?
Well you do have a point there. In conditions where food is scarce like the Sahara desert, animals like felines that are usually solo do work together. Lionesses do all the hunting, and males fight other males for territory. Elephants however are herbivores, and travel in groups because it's their only defence against predators.
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slightly sillydude
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:16:00 -
[67]
the skill involved in eve PvP is more the skill in picking and setting up fights, not so much the actual flying around. If the combatants are remotely competent the outcome is mostly decided by the ship classes and fit.
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:18:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Mikayla Grey on 21/09/2009 17:19:41
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Gottii Its unrealistic to want to play an MMO solo.
Not really. Life is the ultimate massively multiplayer experience, and you see more individuals doing well than you see groups.
If you want to look at the animal kingdom, the smarter more specialized animals do fine solo, while the weaker have to work in packs and fight amongst themselves over everything.
Just because there's other people around is no evidence we all have to work together to do well. The concept is unnatural even.
What planet are you on? You are a member of many groups just by existing in todays society. Humans are the most successful animal and we are successful largely because we group up.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mikayla Grey What planet are you on? You are a member of many groups just by existing in todays society. Humans are the most successful animal and we are successful largely because we group up.
Please see the discussion a page back, about how groups of humans don't really work together for the benefit of everyone as much as get used for the benefit of a few.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:36:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Mikayla Grey What planet are you on? You are a member of many groups just by existing in todays society. Humans are the most successful animal and we are successful largely because we group up.
Please see the discussion a page back, about how groups of humans don't really work together for the benefit of everyone as much as get used for the benefit of a few.
I point to the tsunami relief fund that the UK public donated to help survivors that exceeded the first offer of the USA government as an example of humanity working together for the benefit of many many people.
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:40:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Mikayla Grey on 21/09/2009 17:39:56
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Mikayla Grey What planet are you on? You are a member of many groups just by existing in todays society. Humans are the most successful animal and we are successful largely because we group up.
Please see the discussion a page back, about how groups of humans don't really work together for the benefit of everyone as much as get used for the benefit of a few.
Their motives are completely irrelevant. You are not a soloplayer in the mmo called life.
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Kaalen
Caldari Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Kaalen I suspect that you're mistaking human nature as something that CCP can nerf.
Human beings naturally form groups for the mutual benefit that being in such a group provides.
That's a pretty naive view of history. I see centuries of slavery and kings.
Well yes, but that's largely irrelevant. We aren't discussing the motives of these groups, simply that groups naturally form amongst our species. The sum is greater than it's parts in these examples, whether the sum is shared out equally among those who achieved it or kept for the benefit of a cruel dictator.
The fact is, human beings don't function "solo" and those that do rarely function that way for very long. Either make friends and help each other, or manipulate others into helping you; go it alone at your own peril.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:48:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Most real world CEOs now make 500 times more money than the people who work for them.
Sure, and yet, he needed the group to do it. He had to work with others (well, lead, bribe, etc others). In fact, from your own quote:
Originally by: That Website "A top-level executive is probably worth his or her weight in gold as far as what they do for the economy," says Longnecker. "They create jobs."
That's right. They create jobs..... for other people. MMO. They are worth so much "as far as what they do for the economy". Without other people interacting, there is no economy. They are participating in your real-life comparision of an MMO.
You want to compare those "soloists" back to Eve? They are the CEOs with a high tax rate that make millions off the sweat and blood of others. And yet, just being a CEO in a corp with other people is participating in an MMO.
So, as I said in my quote, name someone actually solo'ing in life that is doing better than groups can.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: baltec1 I point to the tsunami relief fund that the UK public donated to help survivors that exceeded the first offer of the USA government as an example of humanity working together for the benefit of many many people.
Governments are now playing with trillions of dollars worth of income per year, and only a small fraction ever make it back to the tax payers themselves. A couple million for relief efforts is mere pennies and could be called nothing more than a political gesture.
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Apotamkin
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:01:00 -
[75]
Back on TOPIC yeah I would like to see more 1v1 rather then blobs and ganking all the time.
"I would like a chance to 'draw a line in the system' and have fights with like-minded gladiatorial opponents"
Like he said. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:07:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega he needed the group to do it. He had to work with others
In the same way a cattle farmer works with his cattle to gain wealth.
Originally by: That Website "A top-level executive is probably worth his or her weight in gold as far as what they do for the economy," says Longnecker. "They create jobs."
I don't agree with the 'Atlas Shrugged' idea that they're doing us a favor becoming obscenely rich while their workers barely make ends meet. They aren't in it to make the world a better place, or to help their workers, they're in it for themselves. The most successful companies choose to operate factories in 3rd world countries where they can treat their workforce as badly as possible.
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Apotamkin
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:11:00 -
[77]
LOLZ
World Political talk in the video game pew pew forums. You girls are really cool
Mod lock the thread it's dead Jim. |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:21:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: baltec1 I point to the tsunami relief fund that the UK public donated to help survivors that exceeded the first offer of the USA government as an example of humanity working together for the benefit of many many people.
Governments are now playing with trillions of dollars worth of income per year, and only a small fraction ever make it back to the tax payers themselves. A couple million for relief efforts is mere pennies and could be called nothing more than a political gesture.
well that answer just totaly missed the point...
And did you seriously just say that my government doesnt spend the taxpayers money on, well, keeping the country running? I know the expenses debarcal was shoddy but I didnt realise they used all of my money on food and hireing iliegal house cleaners...
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Neci Maren
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:23:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Duke Karas
Originally by: Tophin Grimm
Originally by: Celeritas 5k
My advice OP, get over your dislike of voice comms and find a decent lowsec pirate corp.
Saddy this is what you'll hear all the time. Some ppl just can't wrap their minds around the fact that not everyone in the game can 'get over their dislike' when thats not even the issue. I'm in a similar situation with voice as the OP. Its not a dislike, in fact I find it fun on the few occasions I've had to use it. Its just not sensable for everyone when there are other people in the house who take offense to 1) constatantly hearing one side of a conversation and you never shutting up or 2) being ignored all while you play because you can't listen and talk on voice and interact with ppl in RL effectivly without missing things in one or the other. And woe be to the fool who misses somthing in fleet, as they will drown in the emo tears of (some) FCs who can't handle anything less than total immediate obedience.
Amen brother
The thing is I have a feeling we (meaning people with jobs and families) are probably the 'cash cows' of EvE. Meaning we probably have a little clout on the matter. I understand that some like things the way they are, ok fine. But I'm not happy entirely and I think a little clout-using may be in order.
EvE Online is a hardcore game. They give you choices, and usually try to stay away from mechanics that box your decisions in.
What is to stop you from setting up your own gladitorial league? You are. Find some place in highsec, BM between warping between 2 gates, drop cans to your prospective opponent and pick up their's and go at it.
You want the devs to do it for you? Why? You can do it yourself. So what is the problem?
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Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:58:00 -
[80]
Jeez. The point being made is whether or not people's efforts benefit some dictator more then themselves, and even if they are enslaved, being part of a society is advantagous then living solo or alone as a hunter gatherer.
You need a COMMUNITY with a population over a certain threshold to make clearing land and developing agriculture VIABLE. Thats the POINT behind formation of societies.
Humans start as hunter gatherers. When families grow large enough, they can NO LONGER FEED THEMSELVES DAY TO DAY by just roaming around foraging.
This leads to:
1. They are unable to feed themselves, and starve to death until the group is small enough to support itself by foraging off the land within several miles.
2. They discover that some plants are nice to eat, they discover planting seeds = more plants = more food and begin deliberate cultivation of those plants.
This has a cumulative effect of generating yet more food, which allows society to support more members, who can clear the land and start cultivating yet MORE food and so on and so forth until you have a society large enough that a government must be formed to moderate society. (And yes, take advantage of them )
The POINT is that all animals generally work better in groups then alone. Primates have families, Ravens mate for life, dolphins and cetaceans form pods, wolves form packs, birds migrate in flocks, elephants move in herds, horses live in herds....
It is simply biologically more advantageous to work together. It isn't an opinion, its fact. Humans are social creatures that by nature form groups for mutual advantage, and the fact that dictators have taken advantage of this system is completely irrelevant.
Hooray for Sociology.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:59:00 -
[81]
Thread locked. It has gone off topic.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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