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Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.09.30 06:25:00 - [31] Originally by: Loney Originally by: Chribba NPC buy orders was removed years ago. [I think]. There are still many items that have NPC buy orders... however... they are NOT as profitable as in the past. I sell about a dozen hand picked NPC items and make a nice stead income from them daily. Was more thiking of non-trade items, such as minerals and that type. I know the static items like Robotics, Quafe, etc are still on NPC buy orders. Secure 3rd party service

Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:13:00 - [32] I think without such manipulation by CCP eve economy could be ruined years ago it just can't work like real world market's. I'd suggest taking whole sandbox idea with a grain of salt. Because in real world there's no infinite respawning veldspar, npc, moons and all that immense suply. PVP just can't be that big resource sink to compensate.
Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:20:00 - [33] Just think of all estimated flow of resources into the game - minus resource sinks by game process, result will be amount of resource outlet by CCP buy orders. In a world of infinite resources out of thin air where a little time (if any) invested to get them market economy can't sustain itself for 6 years without little help.
Signore Kaeota Caldari Caelum Incognitum	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:31:00 - [34] Originally by: Oneiros IV Just think of all estimated flow of resources into the game - minus resource sinks by game process, result will be amount of resource outlet by CCP buy orders. In a world of infinite resources out of thin air where a little time (if any) invested to get them market economy can't sustain itself for 6 years without little help. Not exactly. Take ships for example. They are, currently, the largest mineral consumer in eve. CCP has no but orders for them (some could, will and do argue that insurance is the fail safe here, but I'd point out that it's only recently ships have become profitable to self destruct, and even then, not a great deal of them are), and yet the ship market is fine. I think you're underestimating exactly how many ships go down in some of those 0.0 blobfests. As a manufacturer, I'm dreading Dominions release... -_-_-_- I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and all offence caused by the contents of this above post, and all others that I have written, or otherwise been responsible for. -_-_-_
Xetal Maelstrom	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:33:00 - [35] Why would they directly manipulate the market when they can do it so easily indirectly. You don't think insurance is there so that you don't lose too much when a ship pops, do you? If they wanted they could easily adjust insurance rates to different values in order to raise or lower the floor to which mineral prices will drop. They have no reason to manipulate the market when they control game mechanics.
Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:47:00 - [36] Edited by: Oneiros IV on 30/09/2009 08:48:12 Because patch note about game mechanic/insurance rate is public while silly buy order from random char goes unnoticed. I'd say both tools are used according to situation. carriers and dreads as well as standart fleet BS (wich are the bulk of any pvp activity) are well insurable. My point: tl;dr too much stuff goes into game too few goes out by game means.
Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:55:00 - [37] 300 thousands players sucking infinite tit would grow infinitely fat over 6 years, regardless of any toy disasters that can happen to them.
Signore Kaeota Caldari Caelum Incognitum	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Oneiros IV Edited by: Oneiros IV on 30/09/2009 08:48:12 Because patch note about game mechanic/insurance rate is public while silly buy order from random char goes unnoticed. I'd say both tools are used according to situation. carriers and dreads as well as standart fleet BS (wich are the bulk of any pvp activity) are well insurable. My point: tl;dr too much stuff goes into game too few goes out by game means. refer to my last post. -_-_-_- I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and all offence caused by the contents of this above post, and all others that I have written, or otherwise been responsible for. -_-_-_
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.30 15:48:00 - [39] no its just coincidence that 3 day old characters spend 23 hours a day updating their two buy orders for an item and keep them 1:30 apart Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2009.09.30 19:45:00 - [40] Here is your /tinfoil hat Please re-size your signature to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes.Applebabe
Oneiros IV Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2009.09.30 20:44:00 - [41] Nah there's no need for tinfoil hats or conspiracy theories it's just another mechanism that keep game playable and what else we need after all. Hope you don't have much sandbox delusions to hurt.
Chssmius Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2009.09.30 21:43:00 - [42] Originally by: Oneiros IV Nah there's no need for tinfoil hats or conspiracy theories it's just another mechanism that keep game playable and what else we need after all. Hope you don't have much sandbox delusions to hurt. I really don't see how you can say with serious certainty that CCP uses covert buy orders to keep the market in check. There are simply too many unknowns to make any such conclusion. We don't even know where to begin to quantify figures to reach that kinds of conclusion. At best you have a hypothesis which is virtually untestable and in fact runs counter to the only real information we have on the matter. You literally have to buy into a conspiracy run by CCP so you can ignore what little information is available before you can make the logic jump that CCP is covertly manipulating the market. Reaching a conclusion before you make an analysis is NOT the scientific method. Take The EvE Personality Test today!
Perfection Tau	Posted - 2009.10.01 06:31:00 - [43] His main (and only tbh) arguement was respawning goods (while popularity of particular goods shifts up an down it's still there) wich can't be depleted. I'd also like to add that most of eve playerbase lives in empire and only handful of players involved in 0.0 metagame. And empire folks don't lose ships very often, they looting NPC on regular basis though. Quote: Is CCP manipulating the market to reduce trading profits? Don't think so.
AnakieNine	Posted - 2009.10.01 12:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Iridescent Moon Originally by: SharpMango it is possible there is an increased proliferation of trade bots. like it or not they do exist. i have seen frighteningly quick replacements of orders i have bought. Just saw this a few days ago in Jita. I meant to buy 3 of an item and only bought one. It was about 300k less then the rest of the market. My trade window flashed like it would when it clears the single listed item but, the item was back on the market again at eh same price selling one unit. Bought a single unit again and it did the same thing. Bought the 3rd unit and it repeated. Since I did not need any more I did not buy any more. Could be a bot but it seems rather extreme. Most people would not undercut a sell order of one unit so I could see someone doing this to keep a hold on the lowest price for an item. I think it would be a n easy macro for CCP to catch since it would have to be spamming away like mad to keep up. It might have jsut been the data base going all funky though. The next time this happens take a look at the time left on the reappearing sell order. Chances are you will see the old order which isn't getting removed. As far as i can see Jita may have different code assigned to it than the rest of the market. Maybe because it is the largest driving force of price change, or mabye it just fits the buy mix I sometimes do there. Anyway over 12 times now while buying out stock in the 10's of billions of isk I have reached a point that the sell order isn't removed or even reduced. It's happen with datacores, moon mins and a few other items over the last couple of years. It can be frustrating but I've learnt to wait, use a bunch of other tricks, and If I really want to I push the price up the next day.
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.02 14:19:00 - [45] Originally by: AnakieNine Originally by: Iridescent Moon Originally by: SharpMango it is possible there is an increased proliferation of trade bots. like it or not they do exist. i have seen frighteningly quick replacements of orders i have bought. Just saw this a few days ago in Jita. I meant to buy 3 of an item and only bought one. It was about 300k less then the rest of the market. My trade window flashed like it would when it clears the single listed item but, the item was back on the market again at eh same price selling one unit. Bought a single unit again and it did the same thing. Bought the 3rd unit and it repeated. Since I did not need any more I did not buy any more. Could be a bot but it seems rather extreme. Most people would not undercut a sell order of one unit so I could see someone doing this to keep a hold on the lowest price for an item. I think it would be a n easy macro for CCP to catch since it would have to be spamming away like mad to keep up. It might have jsut been the data base going all funky though. The next time this happens take a look at the time left on the reappearing sell order. Chances are you will see the old order which isn't getting removed. As far as i can see Jita may have different code assigned to it than the rest of the market. Maybe because it is the largest driving force of price change, or mabye it just fits the buy mix I sometimes do there. Anyway over 12 times now while buying out stock in the 10's of billions of isk I have reached a point that the sell order isn't removed or even reduced. It's happen with datacores, moon mins and a few other items over the last couple of years. It can be frustrating but I've learnt to wait, use a bunch of other tricks, and If I really want to I push the price up the next day. ive had this happen occasionally too. i just chalk it up to the game being made by people who cant even get the client to close half the time without crashing. Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
ingenting 20th Legion Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2009.10.02 17:10:00 - [46] stop talking about bots before the thread gets locked like the other ones
Dretzle Omega Caldari Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts	Posted - 2009.10.02 17:20:00 - [47] Originally by: Dramaticus i just chalk it up to the game being made by people who cant even get the client to close half the time without crashing. Might want to check your computer. I very rarely have an error with the CCPExe, in the process of closing or otherwise. When I do it's because I had some stupid screen saver or pop up notice from another program that I should have disabled.
Kiva Aharan	Posted - 2009.10.02 19:11:00 - [48] With all of the conspiracy talk I'm surprised I've been unable to find tinfoil hats on the Jita market.
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.02 19:35:00 - [49] Originally by: SharpMango it is possible there is an increased proliferation of trade bots. like it or not they do exist. i have seen frighteningly quick replacements of orders i have bought. in one instance i bought out the entire stock at a particular station, one buyer, one seller. within the same second, that order was replaced in exactly the same quantity. I was surprised enough to think that my market view hadnt updated properly. but i repeated that order, and lo and behold, i had the same amount again. The behaviour was sufficiently weird for me to think it might be an NPC sell order, but now it appears it was probably a market bot, the more i have thought about it. expect to see more unholy rage at some point. I saw this last night in a station I was in buying EMP ammo to do a mission and I noticed it only gave 496 ammo but it was the cheapest in the area so I bought it and started looking at nearby places to get some more but when I refreshed the same guy was selling exactly 496 again? I thought it was a refresh bug but I tried anyways and I got the ammo. So I bought it over and over again and he never ran out. I had more than enough for the mish so I just chalked it up to a bug and not a bot.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.10.02 20:00:00 - [50] logical conclusions 1) market bots 2) you can now use the market to dupe items 3) you are doing it wrong. tbh 1 and 2 sound a bit silly to me. anytime I even though I had an issue like that it was I was logging in and my market wasn't setup as it was on another computer (ffs I swear the client forgets settings after a while) bought a few overpriced mods this way. ohh that one is 300k, the next few are 400k buy!, realized it isn't sorted by price and see the lowest sell is like 1/2 of that (luckily in small quantities and not a multi billion buy) although this is eve, never know You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?

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