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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
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Posted - 2012.06.08 15:02:00 -
[181] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal
Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:04:00 -
[182] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote: It wasn't a "sandbox armageddon", it was a "ganking/griefing" armageddon. The only things Trammel changed was non-consensual PvP. Every other sandbox element present in original UO was still present in Trammel. Just some griefing elements were curtailed a bit.
As it was, the game was given 2 years. It wasn't going anywhere. With competition biting at its heels, they had to do something or die. They did Trammel. And it worked! The game's population more than doubled compared to the previous peak subscription numbers.
And some of the players who liked the 'sandbox armageddon' left and made a game called Eve.
They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way ---> If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
14
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Posted - 2012.06.08 15:05:00 -
[183] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space.
Who says? You? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:05:00 -
[184] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space.
Sorry I disagree, there is room for everyone to play the game they want. Solo, yapping to everyone, ganking or mining in "relative" peace.
Why exclude anyone type, makes for a richer universe IMHO
RL is the biggest MMO I know (we are all in the matrix, man), and its made up of all types, even solo players, I like to think of Eve as the same.
Tal |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:06:00 -
[185] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Sorry I disagree, there is room for everyone to play the game they want. Solo, yapping to everyone, ganking or mining in "relative" peace. Why exclude anyone type, makes for a richer universe IMHO Tal
You are wrong, their is no room for theme park play style in a sandbox game. It's that simple. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:07:00 -
[186] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You?
Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:10:00 -
[187] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space.
Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you.
Tal
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Disdaine
405
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Posted - 2012.06.08 15:11:00 -
[188] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then....
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Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
127
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:12:00 -
[189] - Quote
The PVP part is hard to pin down. Sure, only 25% of people said that PVP is the reason they play EVE, but that is only the people who actively engage in it or seek it out.
That said, PVP impacts far more than 25% of the players.
Yes, some who want nothing to do with it will come on the forums and rage about suiside ganking, gate camps and big 0.0 alliances.
Yet others...often quietly... gain more enjoyment from the game because of PVP even though they do not actively seek it themselves. The danger of PVP, the need to plan ahead, keep an eye on your surroundings and be careful is part of the fun of being an industrialist in a PVP game.
The act of avoiding PVP is a form of PVP in itself. In this case, PVP is more like "Predator vs Prey". For those who enjoy the hunt (even when they are the ones being hunted) this enhances their enjoyment of the game. Likewise, if something was 100% safe, it would very quickly become boring, even though you never suffered any losses while doing it.
For those of you who doubt me, let me suggest this: The next time you need to do a rep grind for an NPC corp, do a few missions in high sec...then find an agent in low sec and do a few more there. I guarantee you'll find the low sec missions more interesting than the high sec ones.... and as a bonus they're more rewarding (In terms of isk/LP)
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:13:00 -
[190] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Yes, it was Trammel that killed Ultima Online, the carebear patch, the sandbox armageddon. The game could have over 1 billions subs, it doesn't matter anymore because it was not Ultima Online sandbox, it was just another carebear theme park game.
Question for you, if you want to play theme park mmo's, why don't you go play them and leave game like EvE Online?
You know its ppl like you that kill games by keeping asking ppl to leave who don't agree with your one sided and biased view of the world, there is room enough for everyone in Eve. Tal Their is room from everyone that wants to play EvE Online, their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Sorry I disagree, there is room for everyone to play the game they want. Solo, yapping to everyone, ganking or mining in "relative" peace. Why exclude anyone type, makes for a richer universe IMHO Tal You are wrong, their is no room for theme park play style in a sandbox game. It's that simple.
Oh I am sorry, I didn't see when you had taken over CCP and was now dictating the direction of the game. |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1823
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:14:00 -
[191] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then....
So long as they're not petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone, they have the right to play in the sandbox as if they were in a theme park.
The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:15:00 -
[192] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you. Tal
You are not a EvE Online sandbox player, you a theme park mindset player thinking this is WoW in space.
I don't like theme park mmo's, so i dont' play theme park games. Now guess what carebear do? They don't like sandbox games, but they keep on playing sandbox games, and try changing them into a theme park game. Makes sense... If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:16:00 -
[193] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then.... So long as they're not petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone, they have the right to play in the sandbox as if they were in a theme park. The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
The carebear agenda... If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1825
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:22:00 -
[194] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: They never belong in EvE in the first place. Pony theme park MMO'S that way --->
Perhaps you can tell everyone how to play in your sandbox then.... So long as they're not petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone, they have the right to play in the sandbox as if they were in a theme park. The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone. The carebear agenda...
Indeed Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:23:00 -
[195] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa.
Every sandbox has boundaries and rules. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:23:00 -
[196] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you. Tal You are not a EvE Online sandbox player, you a theme park mindset player thinking this is WoW in space. I don't like theme park mmo's, so i dont' play theme park games. Now guess what carebears do? They don't like sandbox games, but they keep on playing sandbox games, and try changing them into a theme park game. Makes sense...
Was going to write a long post, but realise your sort of a pr*ck so there's no point arguing with you apart from to say, been her 9 years will probably be here another 9 when your a distant unpleasant memory. I dont play wow and I'm not pushing any agenda apart from the fact Eve can be for everyone (except maybe you)
Tal
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1826
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:26:00 -
[197] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa. Every sandbox has boundaries and rules.
And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:28:00 -
[198] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise.
And people who wont be happy till they can smartbomb rookie systems with impunity.
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1191
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:29:00 -
[199] - Quote
One important thing to note about using the data collected by these kind of surveys is that it is often not a very good spread of a population, and is also very often open to misinterpretation due to the specific phrasing and formatting used in the questions and available answers.
For example this is a survey that was available as an optional link in a newsletter email. You are already narrowing your target demographic to solely those that read newsletters, and those that click and complete on-line surveys for no reward. The personality types of the particular people likely to have performed those actions will have weighted the responses, as they are also very likely predisposed to certain styles of play in Eve.
Is there a correlation of any kind between reading newsletters, actually completing on-line surveys and the amount of time playing MMOs? Or there may be a link between between that behaviour and your likelihood to play an MMO solo, there simply isn't enough data to make any conclusion either way. If you had access to CCP's private records you may be able to make a better analysis, by seeing if there is a deviation between something like the ages of those completing the survey and the player base at large.
Vincent Athena wrote:Why do people start playing eve? The winners were a complex Sci Fi game with space exploration, with around 70%+ picking those.
And down at 25%? PvP.
It would appear that the survey takers were not drawn to eve by "the hard core PvP" but because its a Sci Fi game. You've also just really badly misinterpreted that. The two points are not mutually exclusive, a user could have answered that they began playing Eve because it was a Sci Fi game but not have picked it up if it hadn't involved PvP.
For example I would have answered that I began playing due to the complexity of the game, yet I would not have played it were it not available for Mac. This means, despite my answer, the availability of the game on the Mac platform was just as pivotal. What you are comparing is open ended game concepts that span every faucet of the game with specific elements, that are by their nature less likely to be selected as that specificity narrows the demographic which will answer it to a demographic which will still be able to consider the first option*.
Again you really should not take data like this at face value, it is useful for making an interesting slide show with pie charts but realistically that is all that this kind of a survey will provide you with.
*Thought I'd clear that premise up a little, there is a name for it but I've forgotten it and I can't find it on google:
OPTION 1: Spans every aspect of the game, such as genre.
OPTION 2: Is of interest to 50% of the player base.
If players were asked which of these was more important to them you would have 75% of them who might answer with option one, whereas you would be left with at best only 25% who can answer with option two.
Anyway, sorry for the statistics lecture. I had to do a little bit of analysing large sets of data in one of my previous jobs and I've found it vaguely interesting ever since.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:30:00 -
[200] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space.
You show an arrogance level beyond the normal human.
First of all you are no one to speak in the name of Eve community. Secondly in a sandbox each and everyone is aloud to play as they wish and there's nothing you can do about, deal with it. brb |
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
167
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:31:00 -
[201] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:
Who says? You?
Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. Sorry wrong again, your not speaking for every single EvE online player, some players here disagree with you. Tal You are not a EvE Online sandbox player, you a theme park mindset player thinking this is WoW in space. I don't like theme park mmo's, so i dont' play theme park games. Now guess what carebears do? They don't like sandbox games, but they keep on playing sandbox games, and try changing them into a theme park game. Makes sense... Was going to write a long post, but realise your sort of a pr*ck so there's no point arguing with you apart from to say, been her 9 years will probably be here another 9 when your a distant unpleasant memory. I dont play wow and I'm not pushing any agenda apart from the fact Eve can be for everyone (except maybe you) Tal
Good, i don't want to read more carebear diarrhea anyway.
And BTW, if EvE Online is still an amazing Sandbox MMO, i will be here 9 years from now, since this type of game is special and rare. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1826
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:32:00 -
[202] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise.
And people who wont be happy till they can smartbomb rookie systems with impunity.
See anyone seriously calling for that recently?
'Cause I can point to numerous threads for banning violence in HS. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7773
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:32:00 -
[203] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Big numbers are not always accurate as we learned from the Truman vs Dewey campaign in 1948. When Gëê98% decide to not answer a survey, the burden of proof lies with those who claim it to be representative (i.e. no sampling bias). I know that you would have a hard time claiming that in a scientific journal with less than 60-70% response rate. So, how can you claim it to be representative? Because there is nothing to suggest that there is a huge drop-out in response rates or that the sample is biased.
That's why I asked you to provide a source for that response rate number, and why I'd still like to see one. As far as I can tell, all we know is that 2,400 people answered, which is a statistically significant sample. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
374
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:34:00 -
[204] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Disdaine wrote:RubyPorto wrote: The problem is that on the forums we have people petitioning CCP to turn EvE into a theme park for everyone.
And vice versa. Every sandbox has boundaries and rules. And EvE's basic boundaries haven't changed in 9 years. So we have people wanting to make it into a theme park and people wanting the game they've played for years to retain its basic premise.
I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec.
Plus the bounderies have changed in 9 years, concorde for example.
All I've seen is a request for balance not safety in the WoW sense of the word.
I for one don't want Wow in space.
Tal
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
167
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Posted - 2012.06.08 15:35:00 -
[205] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. You show an arrogance level beyond the normal human. First of all you are no one to speak in the name of Eve community. Secondly in a sandbox each and everyone is aloud to play as they wish and there's nothing you can do about, deal with it.
I deal with it, that's why i kill and steal your kind. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
14
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Posted - 2012.06.08 15:36:00 -
[206] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote: Was going to write a long post, but realise your sort of a pr*ck so there's no point arguing with you apart from to say, been her 9 years will probably be here another 9 when your a distant unpleasant memory. I dont play wow and I'm not pushing any agenda apart from the fact Eve can be for everyone (except maybe you)
Tal
Forget about him...He is just a kid trying to look cool. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:37:00 -
[207] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Random Majere wrote:Vaju Enki wrote: their is no room for people that wants to play WoW in space. Who says? You? Yes, i and everyone single EvE Online player. This is not WoW in space. You show an arrogance level beyond the normal human. First of all you are no one to speak in the name of Eve community. Secondly in a sandbox each and everyone is aloud to play as they wish and there's nothing you can do about, deal with it. I deal with it, that's why i kill and steal your kind.
It's rather the other way around, you just haven't figured out and never will because you're incapable of
brb |
Disdaine
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:39:00 -
[208] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: See anyone seriously calling for that recently?
'Cause I can point to numerous threads for banning violence in HS.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118674&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115419&find=unread
Couldn't be bothered. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7776
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:41:00 -
[209] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:I'm surprised at you, normally for a goon (jk) you are quite reasonable on the forums (even if I disagree with you). I don't see anyone arguing for a theme park or totally safe hi sec. Really? Stick around and start keeping an eye out for it. You'll come across it soon enough. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
533
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Posted - 2012.06.08 15:42:00 -
[210] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lexmana wrote:Big numbers are not always accurate as we learned from the Truman vs Dewey campaign in 1948. When Gëê98% decide to not answer a survey, the burden of proof lies with those who claim it to be representative (i.e. no sampling bias). I know that you would have a hard time claiming that in a scientific journal with less than 60-70% response rate. So, how can you claim it to be representative? Because there is nothing to suggest that there is a huge drop-out in response rates or that the sample is biased. That's why I asked you to provide a source for that response rate number, and why I'd still like to see one. As far as I can tell, all we know is that 2,400 people answered, which is a statistically significant sample. I just assumed everybody got the survey. But that might not be accurate. I know I got it (can't remember if it was log in screen or e mail) but never answered. Why would they not send it to all? Witout response rate data is useless though large numbers may fool some. |
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