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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
DJ Shuffle
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Posted - 2009.09.30 16:46:00 -
[1]
Please do not upgrade the graphics to require no less than Shader Model 3.0 as I won't be able to logon to Eve with one of my accounts from my laptop and my desktop graphics [card] processor unit (GPU) will barely be supported. I had to purchase a new GPU to be compatible with Shader Model 2.0 and I can't find any AGP/PCI GPU that will work for my 10 year old computer. I plan to buy a new desktop and laptop but don't have the money right now due to the economy. I cannot upgrade my graphics card on my laptop because it is integrated into the motherboard.
Right now I can run the Eve Client just fine with awesome clarity and no real performance issues. However, if the Eve Client is graphically updated to Shader Model 3.0 my GPU will have a hard time rendering and will create regular performance issues for me.
If anyone else will have similar issues please reply to this thread so CCP will be fully informed and not make a decision soley based on brand new computer specifications.
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:32:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lork Niffle on 30/09/2009 17:34:49 From what i remember CCP have decided against from discontinuing Shader Model 2 since a much larger portion do not have a SM3 compliant rather than SM2.0 compliant.
But for SM3 you need a nVidia Geforce 6000, ATI Radeon X1000 or above. All of these include large ranges of AGP cards with the Radeon series continuing up to the 4650 release not long ago fitting on the AGP 8x bus.
For AGP solutions on the bottom end. The Geforce 6800 Ultra 256mb AGP card is the best ever made in the 6800 for AGP and the Radeon X1950XT AGp being on teh ATI side. All of these can be easily bought for ú50/$70 and much lower.
EDIT: in regard to new computer models, you do know that SM3 was brought in in August 2004. That's getting close to 6 years. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
Frangela
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:14:00 -
[3]
Originally by: DJ Shuffle Please do not upgrade the graphics to require no less than Shader Model 3.0....
/sign
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knkk
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:19:00 -
[4]
Edited by: knkk on 30/09/2009 18:22:28 Edited by: knkk on 30/09/2009 18:19:23 i suggest you spend $50 and get a new video card.. for crying out loud sm2 is ancient like someone pointed out its like 6+ years old now...
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DJ Shuffle
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: knkk Edited by: knkk on 30/09/2009 18:22:28 Edited by: knkk on 30/09/2009 18:19:23 i suggest you spend $50 and get a new video card.. for crying out loud sm2 is ancient like someone pointed out its like 6+ years old now...
I'm more concerned about my laptop because it doesn't support Shader Model 3.0. I don't have the money to replace my laptop at the moment. If Shader Model 2.0 is at least 6 years old then Shader Model 1.0/1.1 is even older and the Eve Client was just changed 7 months ago to discontinue its [SM1] support. In my opinion it would be better to wait to require Shader Model 3.0, especially in today's economy. I just don't want to see a situation in where people will decide to close their Eve account if they are unable to upgrade/purchase their computers to support Shader Model 3.0. I have a friend who is in a situation where he can't afford to play Eve at the moment because he cannot afford the subscription nor upgrade his computer.
In Apocrypha, March 10th [2009], we discontinue support for ShaderModel 1, making ShaderModel 2 (GeForce FX (5 series) or ATi R300 series cards or compatible) the minimum requirement and discontinue the "Classic client" version of EVE, replacing it with "Premium Lite" (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=615)
The first [and previous] graphical update was in the Trinity patch came out in December 5th, 2007. Why can't CCP wait till at least March 10th, 2011 to discontinue Shader Model 2.0? If they haven't decided to delay Shader Model 3.0 required on the Eve Client already. Or will it be another 7 months when it's decided to make Shader Model 4.0 a requirment to play Eve?
Excerpt from EVE: Trinity Post-Deployment Feedback Thread (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=651182 Posted - 2007.12.05 23:48:00 - [1] The EVE: Trinity expansion has been deployed and Tranquility has returned to service. Where the other thread is for patch-related Issues, this thread is for thoughts, comments and feedback on the expansion itself.
I'm not trying to stir up a ruckus or cause problems and I want everyone to be mature, respectful, and professional when replying to this thread but I believe there are plenty of people in the Eve Community who share a similar situation as me and I just want CCP to understand who will be truly impacted by that kind of update.
In the Winter Expansion 2009 we are considering discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2 and make the minimum specification ShaderModel 3(GeForce 6 class cards or ATi x1300 or compatible)
We know this will affect some players out there. What we don't know is exactly how many. We estimate that about 95% of all subscribers currently have hardware that is SM2 compatible. We further predict that in q4 this year over 97% of subscribers will have SM3 capable hardware. This means that an estimate of anywhere from 3%-5% of current subscribers would have to update their computers or graphics cards to be able to continue playing. http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=615
My goal is simply for informational purposes which I hope CCP sees this post as well. As stated above from a Dev blog written in January 13th, 2009 CCP predicts a minimum of 3% will be affected by a Shader Model 3.0 requirement on the Eve Client. At almost any given moment you can find about 30,000 people playing Eve, and that's just at one moment in time. However, 3% of 30,000 people are 900 people that won't be able to play Eve with a Shader Model 3.0 requirement until they update their GPU or laptop graphics card. That's just a snapshot of people and not reflecting the total number of Eve Online subscriptions. Would most people agree that laptops usually carry an on-board integrated graphics processor? How much is it for a new laptop that can support Shader Model 3.0 with good performance?
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feffrey
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Posted - 2009.10.01 05:41:00 -
[6]
actually there is a agp shader model 3 vid card Nvdia 7800 gs. I had one for the longest time before upgrading to a 8800gt. It is THE best agp card out there, but good luck finding one.
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DJ Shuffle
Eve Radio Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.01 05:56:00 -
[7]
Edited by: DJ Shuffle on 01/10/2009 05:57:55 Well that is good news. Does it have Windows XP SP3 compatibility? Hope I don't also have to upgrade my PSU again. I have a 500w PSU.
Still, the problem of my laptop not supporting SM3 is again still an issue.
I really would like to find out how many people would have to upgrade thier computer or purchase a new desktop/laptop if the Eve Client required Shader Model 3 (SM3) as a minimum requirement.
Originally by: feffrey actually there is a agp shader model 3 vid card Nvdia 7800 gs. I had one for the longest time before upgrading to a 8800gt. It is THE best agp card out there, but good luck finding one.
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.10.01 06:12:00 -
[8]
ATI have made AGP cards right up to their 4650, which is a very powerful card. Since it is the 4000 series it is compatible with XP right up to Win7. If you really need to stay on the AGP bus get the 4650. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
kan han
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.01 06:34:00 -
[9]
You should buy more free software so that you really have a chance to participate in such decisions. With a vendor lock in, like with EVE, you can get real problems in such situations where you can't do what the vendor like you to do for whatever reasons.
And all this: hey, the world don't stop spinning, buy yourself something NEW because this or that is so OLD stereotype: That something still works flawless is important, not if it's new or old.
I find it pretty much reasonable to have the demand to not upgrade to a new shader model. An I could imagine that there should be a way to offer sm 2 replacements for those systems who do not have sm 3. CCP won't be the only company facing such a case I guess.
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Leellu Multipass
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.10.01 17:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Leellu Multipass on 01/10/2009 17:15:22
Originally by: feffrey actually there is a agp shader model 3 vid card Nvdia 7800 gs. I had one for the longest time before upgrading to a 8800gt. It is THE best agp card out there, but good luck finding one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102730
3850 will smoke the 7800gs for $89
better yet he can get a 4650 which is even faster: http://techreport.com/articles.x/15559/6
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.10.01 18:27:00 -
[11]
interesting that one guy talks about "we"...
i woudlnt mind upgrading to shadermodel 4
so what now? shall i say "we want shadermodel 4" ?
you only speak or yourself
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illford baker
Pilots of Damnation death from above..
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Posted - 2009.10.01 21:59:00 -
[12]
i am able to play eve all max settings on a vid card 3 gens old, poor graphics. we need new and better graphics, maby bring back the low and high graphics clients for those with old vid card? though there is no excuse to have a video card that old, you can get a new one that supports eve for the cost of dinner, eat roman noodles for a week and you can afford it! we cant keep holding back for a few losers.
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.10.01 22:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: illford baker DIRECT X 11 SUPPORT!??!
Why? I cannot see EVE gain any performance of graphical benefits from moving to DX11. DX9 and DX11 are very similar in graphic quality. What DX11 brings is a much more efficient way to provide this. EVE does not have enough graphic complexity to yet take advantage of this improvement. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
illford baker
Pilots of Damnation death from above..
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Posted - 2009.10.01 22:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lork Niffle
Originally by: illford baker DIRECT X 11 SUPPORT!??!
Why? I cannot see EVE gain any performance of graphical benefits from moving to DX11. DX10 and DX11 are very similar in graphic quality. What DX11 brings is a much more efficient way to provide this. EVE does not have enough graphic complexity to yet take advantage of this improvement.
1. i said it for the lols 2.you mean DX 10 and 11, 9 and 10 are very different. 3.but i do want DX 10 support, with windows 7 out no reason to have XP and be locked out of 10, W7 only $99 with free shipping on newegg.com, W7 is much better than vista and xp.
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.10.01 22:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: illford baker
2.you mean DX 10 and 11, 9 and 10 are very different.
Nope DX11 brings very little visual difference but simply backend improvements. Similar to Win7, looks the same, feels similar but works a lot better. DX9 looks like DX10 therefore DX9 looks like DX11. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
illford baker
Pilots of Damnation death from above..
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Posted - 2009.10.01 22:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lork Niffle
Nope DX11 brings very little visual difference but simply backend improvements. Similar to Win7, looks the same, feels similar but works a lot better. DX9 looks like DX10 therefore DX9 looks like DX11.
....no. 9 and 10 are so diffrent, 10 could not be used with XP or old video cards, 11 is halfway backwards compatible with 10.1 cards, and 11 can be used on vista. you don't know what your talking about. also, this 9 Vs 10
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.10.01 23:02:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lork Niffle on 01/10/2009 23:02:54 Yeah, I know DX10 cannot be officially installed on XP. But with many games in the first 2 years not moving onto DX10 they innovated their methods so that modern games, I.E Not Crysis, look exactly the same on DX10 as they do on DX9. The only reason that crysis has the comparison is taht it was brought on at the beginning of DX10. A lot has changed in the nearing 4 years.
And yes i know DX11 is backcomp with DX10 but mid end current gen cards will not be able to use it and have to default to either DX9 or 10 since they implemant their own forms of tesselation and whatnot which conflicts with the standard DX11 brings in.
The only big end in the graphics market game that has done anything to use DX10 and then 11 to the fullest but providing no visual clues it does is STALKER. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
illford baker
Pilots of Damnation death from above..
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Posted - 2009.10.01 23:10:00 -
[18]
i give up, if you cant see the difference then you just have a bad eye for graphics. eve need better graphics, the end.
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.10.01 23:13:00 -
[19]
Yeah, I can see the difference. Back in 2006 when DX9 was nowhere near maturity. It was easy to make DX10 look better. Now the only game that is currently doing it is STALKER and they are moving to DX11 where it's simply performance issues.
Now DX9 has been used so extensively that there is little need to invest time in DX10 when you have to retrain everyone for the same results. I would wait until about 2011 when DX10/11 shines through properly and the developers find the neat tricks to make games look that much better. But for now DX9 does the same thing. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
DJ Shuffle
Eve Radio Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.02 00:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: illford baker i give up, if you cant see the difference then you just have a bad eye for graphics. eve need better graphics, the end.
illford baker, why does Eve need better graphics? Are you willing to sacrifice performance just to have better graphics? I'm not.
Also, I don't see what's wrong with the current graphics, it looks amazing. Does anyone that have all thier display/graphic settings set to max disagree?
Please continue to be respectful and mature in this thread.
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illford baker
Pilots of Damnation death from above..
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Posted - 2009.10.02 00:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: DJ Shuffle
illford baker, why does Eve need better graphics? Are you willing to sacrifice performance just to have better graphics? I'm not.
Also, I don't see what's wrong with the current graphics, it looks amazing. Does anyone that have all thier display/graphic settings set to max disagree?
i am not saying get rid of all low end graphics, i am just saying, i like to look at nice things when i mine, or see the big explosions when i pvp. and i dont need to sacrifice preformance when i upgrade my vid card more than every 10 years. (note, learn how to build your own computer, its easy, and cheap)
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DJ Shuffle
Eve Radio Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.02 01:51:00 -
[22]
Maybe CCP could still support Shader Model 2 and have an optional upgrade or feature built in for people who want to use Shader Model 3. All problems solved.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.10.02 02:12:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Elaron on 02/10/2009 02:14:16 I'm pretty sure that after the kerfuffle there was surrounding CCPs decision to no longer support the Classic graphics client, they decided to keep SM2.0 support for the time being. See this dev blog.
Edit:
Originally by: DJ Shuffle
Maybe CCP could still support Shader Model 2 and have an optional upgrade or feature built in for people who want to use Shader Model 3. All problems solved.
They do already. SM2.0 is also known as Premium Light, while having 3.0 gives full resolution textures, bloom, etc.
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Hatch
Minmatar 4 Marketeers Rura-Penthe
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Posted - 2009.10.03 15:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Hatch on 03/10/2009 15:51:00 I would like to point out, GRAPHICS DON"T MAKE THE GAME. This has been a real problem in the gaming industry for the last 5 years. The shiny graphics don't make game play any better, they just make it pretty. And frankly, i'd rather have a game that had the original graphics engine from dragon and have a game that works with few problems, than a game that constantly burns up video cards from nvidia.
And for those of you who are saying, "Buy a new system and get with the times", I'll expect a new computer arriving from you by the end of the year. not all of us can afford to have mommy and daddy buy us a new computer at the drop of a hat. I work for a living, have a wife, a kid, and a mortgage. you pay for one of those for a year and i'll buy both of us a new computer. Otherwise, that arguement holds no water.
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.10.03 17:05:00 -
[25]
Well Hatch let's see those points.
Lower quality or lacking consistent graphics =/= constant commercial sucess.
You do not need to get a new system. With the drop of SM1 90% of all the systems that we're now incompatible could buy a cheap graphics expansion card at anywhere from ú$20 - ú$100. The drop of SM2 is not going to happen soon. But remember this, it's nearing 6 years old, it won't be too long before it has to go. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
Trioxi
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Posted - 2009.10.03 23:27:00 -
[26]
Sorry but I would love to see EvE move into Direct X 10 only, and really push the boundaries.
It cannot keep supporting outdated hardware.
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DJ Shuffle
Eve Radio Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.03 23:52:00 -
[27]
So far this thread has been getting much attention from both sides. I appreciated all input whether you are for or against CCP requiring Shader Model 3 this Winter [2009].
I do hope that for those (and myself) who can't play Eve with Shader Model 3 as a requirement CCP does in fact decide to delay or still offer Shader Model 2 as a minimum requirement. I can honestly speak for myself I will really get crackin' at saving my money for a new laptop and desktop so I can run Eve in future upgrades that may or may not require Shader Model 3 (or above ~ hopefully not SM4). I urge everyone to also do the same but at the same time going to Shader Model 3 this Winter in my opinion would be too fast, too soon. Even if Shader Model 2 is so old, if that is the case.
Bottom line, all of us can expect going to only Shader Model 3 in the upcomming future but as far as this Winter 2009 goes we urge CCP not to get rid of Shader Model 2 support until the next major expansion pack. I think that would be fair to everyone on both sides whether you want more graphics or not. It may cost a lot of money to get a uber computer/laptop to run all these new graphics upgrades that may or may not happen but I guess that's the direction the Eve client will go in the future. So if CCP holds off to upgrade the client to only Shader Model 3 all of us have plenty of time and fair warning what we can expect at some point.
Please reply and let me know what you think of my proposal to CCP reguarding this topic.
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.04 00:06:00 -
[28]
Kinda stupid, aren't you?
From CCP Zulupark on Jan 19, 2009:
"Based on your feedback we are going to commit to making ShaderModel 2 the minimum requirement (graphics wise) in the Apocrypha release, as well as replacing the Classic client with Premium Lite which will contain the same graphics and models as the regular Premium client but downmix the textures to increase performance on lower end computers.
We will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now. It's quite apparent that while an overwhelming majority has no problems with moving to ShaderModel 2, there are still quite a few (mostly laptop) users out there that cannot support ShaderModel 3 yet. We're going to continue monitoring hardware trends closely and will revise our plan on a regular basis." ___
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Lork Niffle
Gallente External Hard Drive
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Posted - 2009.10.04 00:41:00 -
[29]
As much as it makes sense to only support the latest stuff i do not wish CCP to, the negative feedback of dropping their clients on the low end would be too much.
I have said that a few times along with some other people, they dropped SM1 since they had a very low percentage still only able to use it. They then rethought from the feedback they got from it and since even more people can't support only SM3 they decided not to. They have already done this, this was decided months ago.
------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2009.10.05 21:21:00 -
[30]
Graphics requirements in 2009 (red text at top) and general system requirements 2009.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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