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Ember Scar
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Posted - 2009.10.04 02:31:00 -
[1]
as i rely on them, i would like to prepare for the coming expansion, and theres a lot of talk about the effect it will have, so here im looking for some discussion specifically as to the relationship of the new ammo its effects on auto cannons specifically.
TL;DR new Ammo, Auto cannons effects of:
discuss
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.04 02:49:00 -
[2]
They'll be a bit better at getting in someone's face and ganking. If you try to play the range games, nothing's really changing.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Ember Scar
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Posted - 2009.10.04 03:06:00 -
[3]
once again liang you come through, thank you.
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FatFreddy
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Posted - 2009.10.04 03:37:00 -
[4]
Edited by: FatFreddy on 04/10/2009 03:37:41
pew kerpow kabomm ratatat tish bang
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Xetal Maelstrom
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Posted - 2009.10.04 05:09:00 -
[5]
My forum-search-fu has failed.
Anyone mind pointing me in the right direction for the specifics of the changes?
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Spooks'em
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Posted - 2009.10.04 06:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Spooks''em on 04/10/2009 06:28:09
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom My forum-search-fu has failed.
Anyone mind pointing me in the right direction for the specifics of the changes?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1184365 |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.04 06:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/10/2009 06:32:42 Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/10/2009 06:32:23
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom My forum-search-fu has failed.
Anyone mind pointing me in the right direction for the specifics of the changes?
Changes: - Swapping armor/shield on Phoon & Pest - 5th turret/launcher to phoon - Equalizing projectile ammo with other races (+1 point sm, +2 pt med, +4 pt lg), nerfing long range ammo damage (equal with other races), adding tracking to long range ammo (up to 20% bonus) - Shrinking proj ammo to give larger clip size, and same size for all ammos - Adding falloff (equal to optimal) to tracking comp/tracking enhancer - Boosting alpha of med artillery by 25%, boosting alpha of large artillery by 75% (equal DPS)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1184365&page=12#336 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172933&page=25#723
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Xetal Maelstrom
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Posted - 2009.10.04 07:07:00 -
[8]
Thank you.
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Ember Scar
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Posted - 2009.10.04 08:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/10/2009 06:32:42 Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/10/2009 06:32:23
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom My forum-search-fu has failed.
Anyone mind pointing me in the right direction for the specifics of the changes?
Changes: - Swapping armor/shield on Phoon & Pest - 5th turret/launcher to phoon - Equalizing projectile ammo with other races (+1 point sm, +2 pt med, +4 pt lg), nerfing long range ammo damage (equal with other races), adding tracking to long range ammo (up to 20% bonus) - Shrinking proj ammo to give larger clip size, and same size for all ammos - Adding falloff (equal to optimal) to tracking comp/tracking enhancer - Boosting alpha of med artillery by 25%, boosting alpha of large artillery by 75% (equal DPS)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1184365&page=12#336 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172933&page=25#723
-Liang
thats awesome, seriously great stuff right there.
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Spooks'em
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Posted - 2009.10.04 09:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ember Scar
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/10/2009 06:32:42 Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/10/2009 06:32:23
Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom My forum-search-fu has failed.
Anyone mind pointing me in the right direction for the specifics of the changes?
Changes: - Swapping armor/shield on Phoon & Pest - 5th turret/launcher to phoon - Equalizing projectile ammo with other races (+1 point sm, +2 pt med, +4 pt lg), nerfing long range ammo damage (equal with other races), adding tracking to long range ammo (up to 20% bonus) - Shrinking proj ammo to give larger clip size, and same size for all ammos - Adding falloff (equal to optimal) to tracking comp/tracking enhancer - Boosting alpha of med artillery by 25%, boosting alpha of large artillery by 75% (equal DPS)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1184365&page=12#336 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172933&page=25#723
-Liang
thats awesome, seriously great stuff right there.
The key note Liang forgot to mention about the increase to alpha is there is a proportional reduction in ROF(that is an increase in cycle time). Meaning the DPS is the same and this is more a "change" than a "boost."
So 17-22 second cycle time but like ~5-6k damage per volley for a pest or strom(some have started calling it a broadside).
One last thing to note is these changes aren't fully set in stone yet and there may be more iterations before we see the changes on TQ. They are however, a broad indication of the direction projectiles(esp. artillery) is being taken with Dominion. |
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Lilith Krell
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Posted - 2009.10.04 09:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Spooks'em
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Boosting alpha of med artillery by 25%, boosting alpha of large artillery by 75% (equal DPS)
-Liang
The key note Liang forgot to mention about the increase to alpha is there is a proportional reduction in ROF(that is an increase in cycle time). Meaning the DPS is the same and this is more a "change" than a "boost."
Highlighted and bolded the part where Liang DID mention this... |
kessah
Anonymous Alcoholics Wrath.
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Posted - 2009.10.04 11:03:00 -
[12]
awesome, looks like we finally get are boost. Tempest 4tw again \o/... Typhoon is guna be seriously
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.04 18:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lilith Krell Highlighted and bolded the part where Liang DID mention this...
Yeah, I mentioned it - but it was still worth pointing out that it's more of a change than a boost. But, I personally consider it a boost to alpha. I like it a lot. :)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Word
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Posted - 2009.10.05 02:21:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Word on 05/10/2009 02:24:28 I dont know what's changed but now I use barrage with 800mm cannons and it's great now.
Hitting frigs and BS all the way from 80km to 500m.
Is barrage on the nerf schedule? How much longer will I be able to have fun?
The tactical display for optimum and fall-off doesn't seem to take into account the "smart tracking" war-head. But that's OK, best ammo ever.
Oh, on SiSi the Loki can have upto 6 AC, instead of only 5 with current configurations, so I guess the new changes are looking better for projectile.
I want to be LUDICROUS |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.05 03:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Word Edited by: Word on 05/10/2009 02:24:28 I dont know what's changed but now I use barrage with 800mm cannons and it's great now.
Hitting frigs and BS all the way from 80km to 500m.
Is barrage on the nerf schedule? How much longer will I be able to have fun?
Not a thing in the world is changing for Barrage. Except for extra falloff from TCs and TEs, it will perform exactly as it does now...DPS, range, and all.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.05 10:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: FatFreddy Edited by: FatFreddy on 04/10/2009 03:37:41
pew kerpow kabomm ratatat tish bang
Um, i think you will find that it's - ratatatat. -- "If itĘs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IĘd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin |
Solid Star
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Posted - 2009.10.08 16:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Liang Nuren - Equalizing projectile ammo with other races (+1 point sm, +2 pt med, +4 pt lg) -Liang
I do not get what this means. +1 point of what?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 16:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Solid Star
Originally by: Liang Nuren - Equalizing projectile ammo with other races (+1 point sm, +2 pt med, +4 pt lg) -Liang
I do not get what this means. +1 point of what?
+1 point of damage on the ammo for small, +2 for medium, +4 for large. In practical terms, it adds DPS = damage_mod * [1,2,4]*num_guns/ROF
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Zeerover
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:12:00 -
[19]
Time to train into Minmatar as it will become the new FOTM then.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zeerover Time to train into Minmatar as it will become the new FOTM then.
I'd be very surprised if Minmatar became FOTM after this: - They still do far less actual damage than the other races - They still have far less actual range than Amarr (remember: and less damage) - They still have less EHP - They still have crappy actual ships (See: Tempest/Maelstrom not fitting into 'The BS Mold') - The boost only affects close range gank ships. Which doesn't really favor the Minmatar Way. Would a Vagabond be scary if it engaged at 3km? No. Well, that's the only place it's getting boosted.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:23:00 -
[21]
Any news on buffing base falloff or introducing tiered multipliers? Without that I really don't see this as buffing autocannons much, except maybe making people consider fitting tracking enhancers instead of nanos.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Borasatar
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:28:00 -
[22]
The higher alpha is pretty good in sniper fleets. Compared to now, you almost double (75% increase) the number of equivalent Minmatar BS in your fleet on each volley (+75% volley/alpha damage). That kind of offsets the HP increase from a while back... I remember when lots of folks flew Tempests because of the alpha. Also, if tracking improves, then that's a pure bonus and so is the addition of the falloff bonus on the modules.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Borasatar The higher alpha is pretty good in sniper fleets. Compared to now, you almost double (75% increase) the number of equivalent Minmatar BS in your fleet on each volley (+75% volley/alpha damage). That kind of offsets the HP increase from a while back... I remember when lots of folks flew Tempests because of the alpha. Also, if tracking improves, then that's a pure bonus and so is the addition of the falloff bonus on the modules.
Tracking isn't improving in sniper fleets (T2 ammo isn't getting boosted), and nobody uses LR T1 ammo because it has abysmal damage. The alpha changes are nice, but it really really makes a miss hurt. I like the alpha changes, but it doesn't address the reasons why fleets don't really like Minmatar BS's (low EHP, low overall DPS). Also, alpha that high really ****s with the FC mechanics that I've seen. Taking advantage of it will require a pretty big shakeup in FC tactics.
It might see some use in Minmatar lowsec. As in, it will. Because that's where I live.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:45:00 -
[24]
You forgot low optimal. Being at 1xfalloff at 170-180km is kind of a problem. I guess adding falloff to TEs will help a bit, but it's still a problem. Are they combining locus and ambits too?
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega You forgot low optimal. Being at 1xfalloff at 170-180km is kind of a problem. I guess adding falloff to TEs will help a bit, but it's still a problem. Are they combining locus and ambits too?
No, and the falloff modification so far is exactly equal to optimal modification. Which is to say it's pretty useless... I can't see myself trading nanos for TEs or Invulns for TCs or anything.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Removal Tool
Space Jerks
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:51:00 -
[26]
Liang, I looked at the links you provided (thanks!) but didn't see where the standard Phoon was getting the armor/shield change.
Was it just my declining eye-site
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 18:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Removal Tool Liang, I looked at the links you provided (thanks!) but didn't see where the standard Phoon was getting the armor/shield change.
Was it just my declining eye-site
Yes.
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium, second link, first paragraph
Typhoon:
ņ Slot layout: received an additional launcher slot and turret slot (for a total of 5/5 turrets/launchers, 8/4/7)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.08 18:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega You forgot low optimal. Being at 1xfalloff at 170-180km is kind of a problem. I guess adding falloff to TEs will help a bit, but it's still a problem. Are they combining locus and ambits too?
No, and the falloff modification so far is exactly equal to optimal modification. Which is to say it's pretty useless... I can't see myself trading nanos for TEs or Invulns for TCs or anything.
-Liang
So basically they're boosting minnie bs at dd tanked sniping range, but they're removing dd. They're boosting acs at a range that only a few minnie ships care about (rifter, rupture, sometimes cane and cyclone?) while leaving barrage unchanged. Color me unimpressed. OTOH, I can now replace my camping tach abaddon with an arty mael.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.08 18:24:00 -
[29]
Dav, I'm also unsatisfied with the changes. They're definitely a step in the right direction, but falloff needs to be addressed. The tempest still needs fixing (agility/speed and I'll be happy). The muninn still needs fixing.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.08 18:28:00 -
[30]
Seems I have been under a rock, new changes? :S --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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