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Meveil
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Posted - 2009.10.04 13:56:00 -
[1]
Last night I made my first attempts in invention. I made 20 5 run hobogoblin BPCs and had enough cores to make 9 attmeps. 4 where successful producing 1 run tech 2 BPCs. Right now with current markets that isn't profitable. But I also heard the more runs the tech 1 BPC has, the more in the tech 2 BPC. If so, then ops my bad. Right now copying some more BPCs with more runs to test that. Is there other ways to improve? I know putting items in like tech 1 hobogoblins in crease it.
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OwlManAtt
Gallente Yasashii Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.04 14:11:00 -
[2]
The runs on the T1 BPC only matter if you're using a decrypter.
Don't waste resources inventing T2 items if they aren't profitable. There are items where, no matter what you do, you will not be able to turn a profit. Run the numbers before you commit to something and end up taking a loss. --- Owl |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.04 14:16:00 -
[3]
Yes, "oops, your bad", you should have gone with max-run T1 BPCs (1500-run ones), that would have yielded 10-run T2 BPCs. And no, no other financially feasable ways to improve on drone invention - anything else you could do will only lower your profits (there's not much else you can do except use a decryptor - that's a very bad idea, financially speaking).
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Meveil
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Posted - 2009.10.04 15:15:00 -
[4]
Thanks for the info. So for ship/rig inventions only use 1 run BPCs but for ammo/drones use max runs. Got it thanks. A bit a of a punch below the belt knowing that I could've made 12-14mill instead of 2, espically since the data cores are worth roughly 7 mill on the market. :/ Some solice since I got them from R&D agents but still a nasty sucker punch.
Does any body know a formulee to calculate your chances of success?
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.10.04 15:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Meveil
Does any body know a formulee to calculate your chances of success?
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.04 15:26:00 -
[6]
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php
Very good site.
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Meveil
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Posted - 2009.10.04 17:25:00 -
[7]
ThankI appericate it.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.10.04 17:36:00 -
[8]
Invention has such poor profit potential because T2 ship production is limited by the high cost of moon materials rather than invention or data cores.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Crocodylus Porosus
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Posted - 2009.10.04 18:58:00 -
[9]
Interestingly enough, moon minerals are currently flatlining to the point where it becomes profitable to start using the lower ME decryptors. More runs, less investments, more profit.
I keep a daily tally on what the average mineral prices are in Jita, and base my selling prices on that. What also helps is to buy your supply in bulk at a lower rate then the Jita average. It may cost alot initually, and can be risky if the prices of mats go down but it works if your production run is large enough.
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.10.05 01:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ghoest Invention has such poor profit potential because T2 ship production is limited by the high cost of moon materials rather than invention or data cores.
I have no idea what you mean by "poor profits". I make billions every months with my alts and dont pay to play because I buy PLEXs. How do I do that? r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. Theres hundreds of things you can build (yes, including some VERY profitable T1 items) and invent. My production depends on the market, I build what is going to get me the highest profit/24h.
My advice is: If you pick a random item, invent/build it and expect to make isk, you're not gonna get rich anytime soon. There's 6 ways to build every T2 item (no decryp + 5 decryptors), do your homework. Do your math, calculate everything. Take advantage of your superior knowledge and kick the a** of all those wannabe builders/inventors. Invention isn't a FREE-ISK button, most T2 ships won't even result in a profit. Same for many many items. Yes, its the T2 BPOs fault. But who cares? Pick other items, you can build ALOT more stuff at the same time than the T2 BPO owners can. You can make WAY more money than they do.
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Komi Toran
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Posted - 2009.10.05 02:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ghoest Invention has such poor profit potential because T2 ship production is limited by the high cost of moon materials rather than invention or data cores.
No. T2 ships are so expensive because of the high cost of moon materials. They (by which I mean, some) have poor profits because of competition among T2 builders, including the many who think their datacores and decryptors are "free." Adjusting the price of moon materials will have a negligible effect on the profit margin of T2 ships, as whatever is saved there will be used to undercut the competition.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.10.05 04:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Originally by: Ghoest Invention has such poor profit potential because T2 ship production is limited by the high cost of moon materials rather than invention or data cores.
I have no idea what you mean by "poor profits". I make billions every months with my alts and dont pay to play because I buy PLEXs. How do I do that? r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h. Theres hundreds of things you can build (yes, including some VERY profitable T1 items) and invent. My production depends on the market, I build what is going to get me the highest profit/24h.
My advice is: If you pick a random item, invent/build it and expect to make isk, you're not gonna get rich anytime soon. There's 6 ways to build every T2 item (no decryp + 5 decryptors), do your homework. Do your math, calculate everything. Take advantage of your superior knowledge and kick the a** of all those wannabe builders/inventors. Invention isn't a FREE-ISK button, most T2 ships won't even result in a profit. Same for many many items. Yes, its the T2 BPOs fault. But who cares? Pick other items, you can build ALOT more stuff at the same time than the T2 BPO owners can. You can make WAY more money than they do.
Learn to read. Yes you can make money by using decryptors - if you build. But If our trying to make money selling BPCs you will have a hard time.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.10.05 08:33:00 -
[13]
rigs invention only gives 1-run BPCs? Well this would ruin my plan I'm preparing for the last days :( Whats about small rigs? 1-run too?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2009 11:54:38
Originally by: Robert Caldera rigs invention only gives 1-run BPCs? Well this would ruin my plan I'm preparing for the last days : Whats about small rigs? 1-run too?
All rigs, regardless of size. Seriously, so hard ? Just look at the T2 blueprint (just write a part of the name, select, right click, auto-link, item, pick the proper blueprint). On the T2 blueprint, see what the "maxProductionLimit" number says (hint: it's 10 on all rigs and ships), then divide that by 10 to get the max number of runs you can get without a decryptor (in this case 1).
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Originally by: Ghoest Invention has such poor profit potential because T2 ship production is limited by the high cost of moon materials rather than invention or data cores.
[...]If you pick a random item, invent/build it and expect to make isk, you're not gonna get rich anytime soon.[...]Do your math, calculate everything.[...]
Learn to read. Yes you can make money by using decryptors - if you build. But If our trying to make money selling BPCs you will have a hard time.
The reason you can't make serious money selling invented T2 BPCs is because ONE inventor can produce enough BPCs to keep anywhere between 5 to 10 manufacturers busy non-stop. When at least one in two T2 manufacturer alts are also R&D/invention alts... well, you can see where this is going. Unless you manufacture your own stuff, expect to have a truckload of BPCs you just stare at because nobody wants to buy them (unless they're almost "at cost").
Ok, thought experiment : if you're so convinced it's the fault of "high moon mineral prices", then tell me... what would happen if all T2 components would be NPC-sold at 1 ISK a piece (so the exact opposite) ? Do you think you could make money selling BPCs then ? If you say you could, I'd say you're hopeless.
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Construxz
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Meveil Thanks for the info. So for ship/rig inventions only use 1 run BPCs but for ammo/drones use max runs.
NOPE! Careful here. 1 run BPCs are only good for things normally winding up with 1 run T2 BPCs. That includes ship inventions that do NOT result in multiple run T2 BPCs. In other words, non-decryptor invention runs on ships result in 1 run T2 BPCs whether you use a min or max run T1 BPC. BUT BUT BUT if you use certain decryptors and a max run T1 PBC, you will wind up with multiple run T2 BPCs. But ONLY if you used a max run T1 BPC.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Construxz NOPE! Careful here. 1 run BPCs are only good for things normally winding up with 1 run T2 BPCs. That includes ship inventions that do NOT result in multiple run T2 BPCs. In other words, non-decryptor invention runs on ships result in 1 run T2 BPCs whether you use a min or max run T1 BPC. BUT BUT BUT if you use certain decryptors and a max run T1 PBC, you will wind up with multiple run T2 BPCs. But ONLY if you used a max run T1 BPC.
*sigh* For ship and rig invention, using a max run BPC will result in 1 (ONE) ADDITIONAL run on top of the decryptor bonus (if there is a decryptor runs bonus, that is). Using a +9 runs decryptor will result in either 9 runs (for T1 BPCs with less than maxruns, even if just 1 less than max) or in 10 runs (if and only if you used a max-run T1 BPC), NEVER in a 1-run T2 BPC.
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Construxz
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Posted - 2009.10.05 20:31:00 -
[17]
orly??
hrmmmmmm, is this through first hand experience? Atika, I know you have extensive experience, so I just have to ask, expecting you to say 'yes you friggin moron!' (feel free to replace 'moron' with 'nice guy' or even 'super hero' if you like).
I thought the T2 BPC number of runs was governed by an equation that.... well, resulted in a 1-run T2 BPC if a 1-run T1 BPC was used, even if the decryptor increases the No. of runs output on the T2 BPC. That basically the output number was rounded up to the next integer once multipled by (no. runs in T1 BPC/max # of runs in a T1 BPC).
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.05 23:08:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2009 23:15:57
The decryptor bonus runs are at the end of everything, just before the final truncation.
There's no chance in hell (not right now anyway, with the current blueprint stats) to use a +9 runs decryptor (Symbiotic Figures / Interface Alignment Chart / Circular Logic / Circuitry Schematics) and ever get less than 9 runs on the invented blueprint You COULD get less than 9 runs while using a +9 decryptor "once upon a time" for just a few blueprint types (jump freighters being the nastiest culprit there, but IIRC also mobile bubbles and some other items I can't recall - they had a maxProductionLimit of 1), but the maxProductionLimit on all T2 blueprints was increased to at least 10, so that's no longer possible.
Now, if you use a +9 run decryptor : * with 1-run T1 blueprint copies, regardless of what you invent, you always would get 9 runs * with max-run T1 blueprint copies, you get either 10 runs (ships, rigs), 14 runs (mobile bubbles) or 19 runs (modules, ammo, drones)
*** Note : T1 freighter BPCs have a max of 1 runs, so you'd get 10 runs of JF with a +9 decryptor and a 1-run BPC
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Loaby
Amarr Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Loaby on 11/12/2009 11:07:09
Originally by: Loaby
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2009 23:15:57
The decryptor bonus runs are at the end of everything, just before the final truncation.
There's no chance in hell (not right now anyway, with the current blueprint stats) to use a +9 runs decryptor (Symbiotic Figures / Interface Alignment Chart / Circular Logic / Circuitry Schematics) and ever get less than 9 runs on the invented blueprint You COULD get less than 9 runs while using a +9 decryptor "once upon a time" for just a few blueprint types (jump freighters being the nastiest culprit there, but IIRC also mobile bubbles and some other items I can't recall - they had a maxProductionLimit of 1), but the maxProductionLimit on all T2 blueprints was increased to at least 10, so that's no longer possible.
Now, if you use a +9 run decryptor : * with 1-run T1 blueprint copies, regardless of what you invent, you always would get 9 runs * with max-run T1 blueprint copies, you get either 10 runs (ships, rigs), 14 runs (mobile bubbles) or 19 runs (modules, ammo, drones)
*** Note : T1 freighter BPCs have a max of 1 runs, so you'd get 10 runs of JF with a +9 decryptor and a 1-run BPC
has anything changed about this with dominion? i guess not, just want to be safe.
also: is there any chance to see the mat requirements of any T2 BPC, all me/pe/copy research times/mat reqs of T1 BPOs, invention times/mat reqs of T1 BPCs outside of the game? all dominion-updated apps i checked still got some errors.
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