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Populating 0.0 after dominion

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Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:07:00 - [31] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Flibertygibbet the only way to make more people travel to 0.0 is to add more entrances to 0.0 a lot more. Pro-Tip™: Getting into 0.0 is pretty easy now. The regional gates are way too big to bubble effeciently now. IIRC you need something like 18 large bobblues to cover an inter-regional. Also, some entry points are less populated than others... Make the first trip in a fast T1 frigate like a Slasher, fit a MWD, speed mods and a prototype cloak. Scout out your route and make bookmarks and safespots. Barring that, get a corp mate out there, open up an office, switch your cloning station and suicide-warp your way there… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:11:00 - [32] a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets". example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day. corp B must lockdown all the adjacents sytems while corp A strip clean the system that has been rented. part of the rental agreement could be that the mined mins get refined in the alliance owned refining station's and that way the controlling allaince gets it's cut of mins for it's own supercap projects.
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:26:00 - [33] mining in 0.0 is horrible and shouldnt be done Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
Tippia Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:33:00 - [34] Well, if it's any consolation, the new mining opportunities that come with the 0.0 infrastructure upgrades will most likely only be scannable sites — not static ones — which already offers a (tiny) amount of protection. In addition, since we're looking at a situation that will hopefully mean a more densely populated 0.0, chances are that you will have many more corp/alliance mates in the same system that will be on the lookout for targets and come to your help (and/or provide more easily scanned and sexier targets — safety in numbers and all that). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06 Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18 a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets". example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day. So you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day?
Marcus Atntony The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:39:00 - [36] I (and probably alot of other indy and non-indy players) dont want CCP to make it so any single/group of blockheads can take buffed barges out mining in 0.0 np. Thats not eve imo. If you cant take the heat, dont go in the fire 0.o.
Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:42:00 - [37] Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09 Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18 Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06 Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18 a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets". example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day. So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC! i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09 Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18 Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06 Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18 a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets". example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day. So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC! i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance I can guarantee that no amount of isk you can pay whilst remaining profitable will be enough for a pvper to sit bored and guard your arse for 24 hours
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:56:00 - [39] Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 05/10/2009 14:58:24 Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 05/10/2009 14:57:12 Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Originally by: Colonel Xaven Edited by: Colonel Xaven on 05/10/2009 13:27:34 Nerf Veldspar. Nerf L4 income. Increase NPC taxes. Problem solved. Do all that, and you still have the problem of "faceless" alliances. Still no reason to leave a player corp in hi-sec for a player corp in 0.0 - especially when the recruiting isn't there. vOv Player corps in hisec are not the majority of the crowd in Empire. To make 0.0 more attractive it is obvious that there are 2 ways: 1. make 0.0 more attractive then hisec or 2. make hisec less attractive than 0.0 The current situation is: Why should someone get into lowsec / 0.0 when he can mine and mission enough to pay for his chars with ISK and get rich while doing it? The space holding alliances are not responsible to get players into 0.0 btw. So recruiting has nothing to do with this topic. Bolded that part - I thought the point of the game was that players controlled the outcomes. So your saying that space holding alliances have enough to do, so shouldn't be arsed with recruiting? Rather have CCP do it for them? Its not just isk keeping all those people in hi-sec... Its: Originally by: Marcus Atntony I (and probably alot of other indy and non-indy players) dont want CCP to make it so any single/group of blockheads can take buffed barges out mining in 0.0 np. Thats not eve imo. If you cant take the heat, dont go in the fire 0.o. And: Originally by: Malcanis So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC! Can't wait to see what happens with Dominion tbqh. Should be interesting to say the least... Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking.
Gaborelle	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:57:00 - [40] Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:58:59 another way to move miners out of high sec is to get rid of 0.8 and above ore belts.... create noob miner agents that give noobs a mining mission with a long time to finish it and that they first warp to an accel gate that takes them to a safe belt to mine. have it so frigates and destroyers and haulers are only allowed to use the accel gates and no mining barges are allowed to use the accel gates and no rats in the noob belts.
Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.10.05 14:59:00 - [41] 1 bil/Month rent is about what we charge. I value my time at minimum of 20mil isk/hour. 20 mil * 23 hours * 100 = 46 billion isk if you want around the clock system lockdown and defense from a hundred man fleet. Yeah... The alternative is to have each carebear run a scout alt in 1 of the adjacent systems. 1-2 scout alts required. Then safe up whenever a nuetral comes through. Much cheaper.
Amanda Mor	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09 Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18 Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06 Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18 a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets". example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day. So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC! i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance The example you showed, however, is off by way more than you think - it's not a matter of just fiddling with the numbers a bit to make it work. Obviously, no pvp'er is going to rent their services for 2 mil a day, when they can literally make at least 10X that in an hour of ratting, which is (marginally) more exciting than watching another ships mining lasers. So, you'd have to pay the pilots more on the order of 20mil/hr EACH - even with a 50 man protection fleet that's 1 billion/hr. At what point does it just not become economically viable to pay for protection? I heard that even 0.0 mining is only 10-15mil/hr per pilot - you'd need alot of miners to make a 1 billion isk/hr protection fee worthwhile. Even a small out of corp protection fleet (5 pvp pilots), is going to cost 500mil for 5 hours of work - you'd need dozens of miners to make it worthwhile, at which point 5 pilots can't protect them all.
Lifelongnoob Caldari Final Conflict UK	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Hiroshima Jita 1 bil/Month rent is about what we charge. I value my time at minimum of 20mil isk/hour. 20 mil * 23 hours * 100 = 46 billion isk if you want around the clock system lockdown and defense from a hundred man fleet. Yeah... The alternative is to have each carebear run a scout alt in 1 of the adjacent systems. 1-2 scout alts required. Then safe up whenever a nuetral comes through. Much cheaper. fair enough i guess... we could pay that but then we'd have to charge u 1bil isk for that hac we build u
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Lifelongnoob Originally by: Hiroshima Jita 1 bil/Month rent is about what we charge. I value my time at minimum of 20mil isk/hour. 20 mil * 23 hours * 100 = 46 billion isk if you want around the clock system lockdown and defense from a hundred man fleet. Yeah... The alternative is to have each carebear run a scout alt in 1 of the adjacent systems. 1-2 scout alts required. Then safe up whenever a nuetral comes through. Much cheaper. fair enough i guess... we could pay that but then we'd have to charge u 1bil isk for that hac we build u I think you missed the point... ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.05 16:28:00 - [45] if you're mining in 0.0 then you're literally an idiot. mine ice in high-sec instead and you'll be making 80% of the money(probably higher after taking hostiles into account) with none of the risk.
Orthaen	Posted - 2009.10.05 16:43:00 - [46] Edited by: Orthaen on 05/10/2009 16:47:09 Originally by: Gaborelle Something that would help improve ccp's chances of getting more industrialists living in 0.0 would be to give mining barges a bit of an overall hit point increase and extend their max targetting range to 50km (so their drones can actually be used properly). currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range. t1 barges really need a second mid slot (to allow for an invunerablity field and shield booster) & a 10% hp/cap increase and add a 3% bonus per level to invunerablity field resists as they die with one volley from a suicide ganker's smartbomb I like this idea. Not the suicide ganking part, I dont care about that. But t1 barges get torn apart by 0.0 belt rats. You HAVE to mine in a hulk, or combat ship, which seems silly. I dont care if retrievers get ripped apart by player ships, thats fine. It is a bit of a bummer that you can't use t1 barges in nul sec without having someone baby sit you just to kill a handful of rats every now and then. Yes, you can dock up and switch ships and kill the rats yourself, but its annoying. I don't see how it would be game breaking if barges had a larger base range, so they could use their drones to kill the mean rats, and maybe a bit more space on fitting so you can at least try to tank them. DPS differences between belt rats and player ships is huge, so the pirates would still have plenty of opportunity to gank the hapless miners. Also, laugh at someone saying mining ice is almost as profitable as mining in 0.0....ice is maybe 10 million/hour. Bistot is more then twice that, using very modest m3/min assumptions.
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.05 16:52:00 - [47] Edited by: Anahid Brutus on 05/10/2009 16:53:02 Originally by: Orthaen Also, laugh at someone saying mining ice is almost as profitable as mining in 0.0....ice is maybe 10 million/hour. Bistot is more then twice that, using very modest m3/min assumptions. Assuming no hostiles(and that those hostiles don't pop your cans), assuming you dont have to pay someone to tank the spawns and assuming you're in a station system. Edit, and refine rates are usually lower in 0.0 stations.
Hacra Minmatar Quam Singulari Cult of War	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:10:00 - [48] Edited by: Hacra on 05/10/2009 17:11:01 Sorry if reply of same sort already exists, but i couldn't be arsed to read the wall-o-text-a-rama above. Anyway, every single 0.0 rat spawn can be tanked by Hulk or Mackinaw easypeasy, it's just matter of skills and finding out the right fit. (and yes you can use two mining upgrades). But i do agree extending the targeting range of exhumers, the 30 something (or below) kilometres is bit silly. What comes to chances against T1 cruisers, when you fly your ships right you won't find your self in such scenario ;)
Alana Mei	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:28:00 - [49] Edited by: Alana Mei on 05/10/2009 17:35:47 Originally by: Anahid Brutus Edited by: Anahid Brutus on 05/10/2009 16:53:02 Originally by: Orthaen Also, laugh at someone saying mining ice is almost as profitable as mining in 0.0....ice is maybe 10 million/hour. Bistot is more then twice that, using very modest m3/min assumptions. Assuming no hostiles(and that those hostiles don't pop your cans), assuming you dont have to pay someone to tank the spawns and assuming you're in a station system. Edit, and refine rates are usually lower in 0.0 stations. Nullsec is full of pipes...long chains of systems where there is only one path through...safety if you mine in one of these pipes is generally not that much of an issue with properly setup intel you can get a 3-4 jump warning...next...you set up a pos in said system...ship ore to pos for storage until you can jump or haul it to a station system...since we've already put a pos in said system keep a ratting ship in pos...when rats spawn warp to pos switch ships warp back to belt...kill rats...yes it does take more of an investment than highsec...it is also alot more profitable... An alternate option is to team up with a ratter...go to said system and have the ratter deal with the spawns while you mine... Edit: Yes I realize this isn't as good as highsec solo since fueling a pos isn't cheap and can be alot of work, but if you get a corp doing it you can turn a decent profit fairly fast...not to mention the other benefits having a foothold in nullsec would give you...
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:36:00 - [50] Originally by: Alana Mei Nullsec is full of pipes...long chains of systems where there is only one path through...safety if you mine in one of these pipes is generally not that much of an issue with properly setup intel you can get a 3-4 jump warning...next...you set up a pos in said system...ship ore to pos for storage until you can jump or haul it to a station system...since we've already put a pos in said system keep a ratting ship in pos...when rats spawn warp to pos switch ships warp back to belt...kill rats...yes it does take more of an investment than highsec...it is also alot more profitable... An alternate option is to team up with a ratter...go to said system and have the ratter deal with the spawns while you mine... That's some nice theorycraft, but you're wrong. Go to 0.0 and see how many hulks you can find. Chances are that the vast majority* are ratting instead, and this is not a coincidence. *I was thinking about asking for just a screenshot of a single hulk mining in 0.0, but then i remembered that there are some truly stupid people out there.
Alana Mei	Posted - 2009.10.05 18:15:00 - [51] Originally by: Anahid Brutus That's some nice theorycraft, but you're wrong. Go to 0.0 and see how many hulks you can find. Chances are that the vast majority* are ratting instead, and this is not a coincidence. I was thinking about asking for just a screenshot of a single hulk mining in 0.0, but then i remembered that there are some truly stupid people out there. Well obviously you aren't going to see* them in the belts unless they are idiots that didn't warp out when a neutral entered the system :) That just proves my point as to how safe it is...
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 18:29:00 - [52] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Originally by: Colonel Xaven The space holding alliances are not responsible to get players into 0.0 btw. So recruiting has nothing to do with this topic. Bolded that part - I thought the point of the game was that players controlled the outcomes. So your saying that space holding alliances have enough to do, so shouldn't be arsed with recruiting? Rather have CCP do it for them? I guess u miss the point. Noone has formed an alliance and fought endless pos wars for the purpose of getting empire players into 0.0. They did that to get themselves access to 0.0. There is a difference. Recruiting has the purpose to strengthen an alliance and not the altruistic purpose of inviting people to nullsec who want to gain ISK. -CX
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.10.05 18:38:00 - [53] Originally by: Alana Mei Originally by: Anahid Brutus That's some nice theorycraft, but you're wrong. Go to 0.0 and see how many hulks you can find. Chances are that the vast majority* are ratting instead, and this is not a coincidence. I was thinking about asking for just a screenshot of a single hulk mining in 0.0, but then i remembered that there are some truly stupid people out there. Well obviously you aren't going to see* them in the belts unless they are idiots that didn't warp out when a neutral entered the system :) That just proves my point as to how safe it is... Go easy on the worker bees now. They are limited to visual methods of confirmation to determine if something is actually there or not. The process of extrapolation of information to mentally visualize probable outcomes and scenarios from empirical data and cognative skills is reserved for the leader class of bee that you don't see in any of the various eve-o forum sections. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Miraqu Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.05 18:41:00 - [54] Somehow most of you miss the point about industrialists in 0.0. Players in 0.0 are for exactly two reasons in 0.0. 1. They contribute to the goal of the Corporation. 2. They contribute to the goal of the Alliance. If your Indie-corp will produce some caps per month and mine and mine. They can probably do this. But most don't want to contribute. So they want to stay in their little (>20) highsec indu corp, very often don't want to even acknowledge the goals and like to be left alone. Most 0.0 corps do recruit good industrial players and will probably do this especially after dominion. But no alliance will allow a small bunch of more or less helpless and annoying miners in their corps into their alliance who will leave after the fifth hulk died to a gang after ten players were to lazy to read intel-chat.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 18:58:00 - [55] Originally by: Miraqu Somehow most of you miss the point about industrialists in 0.0. Players in 0.0 are for exactly two reasons in 0.0. 1. They contribute to the goal of the Corporation. 2. They contribute to the goal of the Alliance. If your Indie-corp will produce some caps per month and mine and mine. They can probably do this. But most don't want to contribute. So they want to stay in their little (>20) highsec indu corp, very often don't want to even acknowledge the goals and like to be left alone. Most 0.0 corps do recruit good industrial players and will probably do this especially after dominion. But no alliance will allow a small bunch of more or less helpless and annoying miners in their corps into their alliance who will leave after the fifth hulk died to a gang after ten players were to lazy to read intel-chat. That pretty much sums it up. 0.0 is PvP. If you're a carebear and do not participate when it comes to serious internet spaceships blowup business where all hands on deck are needed, you're useless and will sooner or later end up in Empire again mining Veldspar, either by being kicked or by alliance implosion. -CX
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.05 22:07:00 - [56] Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:46:09 Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 05/10/2009 14:38:18 Originally by: Gaborelle Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:18:06 Edited by: Gaborelle on 05/10/2009 14:17:18 a possible solution to the getting industrials into 0.0 would be the big alliances not only renting out their 0.0 systems to industrial corps but also renting out "protection fleets". example an indy corp (corp A) rents a system from a controlling alliance for say, 100mil a month for a non upgraded system or 200mil a month for a upgraded system the controlling alliance supplies corp A with a 50 man protection fleet (corp b) for an additional 100mil per day (dt to dt) or 100 man protection fleet for 200mil per day. So... you want the PvPers to work for you for 2 million a day each? Clean yer shoes, guv'nor! god bless you sweet master, a shiney sixpence! Thankee sir, now we can eat right well on turnips tonight! Only another 67 days doing protection work and I can save up for a shiney new HAC! i was merely making an example to convey the idea - fees themselves would be determined on the alliance I'd up your idea by about 1.5 orders of magnitude. 2 if you want good PvPers to protect you.
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2009.10.05 22:21:00 - [57] Speaking about mining drones, they should actually be able to use mwd to get to their target (like any other drone). As it stands, if you want the drones to really add to your mining, you have to be within 5k of the asteroid.
Ryhss Caldari Sarum A Fortiori Sanctimony of Bellum	Posted - 2009.10.05 22:29:00 - [58] Edited by: Ryhss on 05/10/2009 22:31:06 Edited by: Ryhss on 05/10/2009 22:29:53 Originally by: W3370Pi4 suicide ganking is a game feature deal with it if your area is dangerous move away exhumers dont need to tank 0.0 rats your alt does. I do not want to get a 2nd account. I will not either. Find a differen't solution for players like me. Originally by: Quel Thalas Originally by: En Passant Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry. wrong I smart bomb in empire all the time; Its the only way to Suicide gank in empire to be frank Who's Frank? This 5 minutes between posts crap needs to stop, NOW. I think not, therefore I am not.
Quel Thalas	Posted - 2009.10.05 22:30:00 - [59] Originally by: En Passant Smart Bombs aren't allowed in empire are they? Suicide ganks happen with traditional weaponry. wrong I smart bomb in empire all the time; Its the only way to Suicide gank in empire to be frank
Discrodia Gallente Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.10.05 22:37:00 - [60] Originally by: Gaborelle currently t2 barges can barely tank 0.0 rats.... they have zero chance against a pvp fit t1 cruiser cos the cruisers can hit the barge from outside the barge's max lock range. That's a lie and we all know it. Originally by: Gaborelle there needs to be a max limit of 2 smartbombs per ship also to reduce suicide ganks or deny u an insurance payout if concord has killed u - in a realistic market insurance companies would not payout insurance for criminal gain. This proposal is just crap. In general please be quiet. ________________________________________________ HELP! CCP HAS NERFED MY SIG! ALSO CAPLOCKS IS FUN! While we're at it I need to bake muffins ^_^

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