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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 08:10:00 -
[1]
I just browsed a bit through the Auctions Forums and was kind of wondering about the following stuff:
we all know that T2-BPOs are going for insane prices actually. But one thing made me really wondering: a small T2-Gun BPO goes for almost 2 Billion? or even more since Auction hasn't ended yet.
What's the sense in paying like 2 Billion for a SMALL GUN BPO? even if it's got higher damage and overall better Attributes.
Ok, obviously someone is willing to pay that much. But I actually fail to understand such obvious economical nonsense. For how much would you have to sell one gun so that it will, at some point in time, profitable to buy the BPO for that price... at this rate the small gun would have to cost as much as an tier 1 BS, to make the costs of the BPO back in some reasonable amount of time. and you'd still need to sell like 30 of them for that price. (Small T2-guns have reached prices of like 2.5M in the past, so go figure, as it would be hard to sell even the better ones for much more...)
I'd be willing to pay reasonable (also high) amounts of ISK for T2-BPOs, after thinking through how much will I be able to get for one, trying to get info on production costs and time or taking a guess on that if none is available. The reason I personally do that is not to create even higher prices on T2, as I personally feel that the prices are way off already.
I am currently producing T2 myself already and actually bought the BPO to be able to do so (doing the same as described here and getting it for a reasonable price), was just wondering what someone is actually willing to bid such high prices on items that are even harder to sell due to their skill requirements (ok, small T2-Guns don't need THAT much, but still)...
What's your oppinion on that?
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 08:10:00 -
[2]
I just browsed a bit through the Auctions Forums and was kind of wondering about the following stuff:
we all know that T2-BPOs are going for insane prices actually. But one thing made me really wondering: a small T2-Gun BPO goes for almost 2 Billion? or even more since Auction hasn't ended yet.
What's the sense in paying like 2 Billion for a SMALL GUN BPO? even if it's got higher damage and overall better Attributes.
Ok, obviously someone is willing to pay that much. But I actually fail to understand such obvious economical nonsense. For how much would you have to sell one gun so that it will, at some point in time, profitable to buy the BPO for that price... at this rate the small gun would have to cost as much as an tier 1 BS, to make the costs of the BPO back in some reasonable amount of time. and you'd still need to sell like 30 of them for that price. (Small T2-guns have reached prices of like 2.5M in the past, so go figure, as it would be hard to sell even the better ones for much more...)
I'd be willing to pay reasonable (also high) amounts of ISK for T2-BPOs, after thinking through how much will I be able to get for one, trying to get info on production costs and time or taking a guess on that if none is available. The reason I personally do that is not to create even higher prices on T2, as I personally feel that the prices are way off already.
I am currently producing T2 myself already and actually bought the BPO to be able to do so (doing the same as described here and getting it for a reasonable price), was just wondering what someone is actually willing to bid such high prices on items that are even harder to sell due to their skill requirements (ok, small T2-Guns don't need THAT much, but still)...
What's your oppinion on that?
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.10.27 08:15:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Hakera on 27/10/2004 08:17:36
1. bpo's are long term investments 2. T2 demand should only go up depending on what TomB and HH nerf for combat as more people get the gunnary specialisations trained. 3. Adv ammo should be here....soon = increased demand for T2 weapons. 4. Relativelly cheap and fast to make in a sellers market. 5. Any buyers *should* well aware of roughly how long it would take to recoup a purchased bpo isk or just bored with their isk.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.10.27 08:15:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hakera on 27/10/2004 08:17:36
1. bpo's are long term investments 2. T2 demand should only go up depending on what TomB and HH nerf for combat as more people get the gunnary specialisations trained. 3. Adv ammo should be here....soon = increased demand for T2 weapons. 4. Relativelly cheap and fast to make in a sellers market. 5. Any buyers *should* well aware of roughly how long it would take to recoup a purchased bpo isk or just bored with their isk.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 08:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hakera Edited by: Hakera on 27/10/2004 08:17:36
1. bpo's are long term investments 2. T2 demand should only go up depending on what TomB and HH nerf for combat as more people get the gunnary specialisations trained. 3. Adv ammo should be here....soon = increased demand for T2 weapons. 4. Relativelly cheap and fast to make in a sellers market. 5. Any buyers *should* well aware of roughly how long it would take to recoup a purchased bpo isk or just bored with their isk.
1. true, but how long term you would go, if you make like 1M profit per item, you need to sell hell of a lot there, to make up the buying costs. I also said in a *reasonable* amount of time, it's hard for small corps that specialised on T2-Production&Research to wait years until their investments start to pay off actually. 2. agreed. But that will actually lower prices as more production will be made as well, which increases the time until recoup again. 3. Adv. Ammo... has yet to come. I have no idea when, so if you got any other idea then a "SoonÖ" it would greatly appreciated to flow into my future calculations 4. true as well, but with low demands (right now) there's not much need of production as well, so that kinda has no effect right now.
5. *should*, yeah, I wouldn't have posted that if I had the feeling that people actually are really aware of the economical issues, or if they pay that much because it's a collectors item or they're bored with their isk...
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 08:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hakera Edited by: Hakera on 27/10/2004 08:17:36
1. bpo's are long term investments 2. T2 demand should only go up depending on what TomB and HH nerf for combat as more people get the gunnary specialisations trained. 3. Adv ammo should be here....soon = increased demand for T2 weapons. 4. Relativelly cheap and fast to make in a sellers market. 5. Any buyers *should* well aware of roughly how long it would take to recoup a purchased bpo isk or just bored with their isk.
1. true, but how long term you would go, if you make like 1M profit per item, you need to sell hell of a lot there, to make up the buying costs. I also said in a *reasonable* amount of time, it's hard for small corps that specialised on T2-Production&Research to wait years until their investments start to pay off actually. 2. agreed. But that will actually lower prices as more production will be made as well, which increases the time until recoup again. 3. Adv. Ammo... has yet to come. I have no idea when, so if you got any other idea then a "SoonÖ" it would greatly appreciated to flow into my future calculations 4. true as well, but with low demands (right now) there's not much need of production as well, so that kinda has no effect right now.
5. *should*, yeah, I wouldn't have posted that if I had the feeling that people actually are really aware of the economical issues, or if they pay that much because it's a collectors item or they're bored with their isk...
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PreTender
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Posted - 2004.10.27 09:19:00 -
[7]
You dont have to make xxx mil profit to earn back the bpo because the bpo still has its value. So if you sell 1 item for 1mil profit you hvae 1mil profit, as you can sell the bpo for 2bil again if needed. __________________________
http://www.eve-extra.com |
PreTender
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Posted - 2004.10.27 09:19:00 -
[8]
You dont have to make xxx mil profit to earn back the bpo because the bpo still has its value. So if you sell 1 item for 1mil profit you hvae 1mil profit, as you can sell the bpo for 2bil again if needed. __________________________
http://www.eve-extra.com |
Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 09:53:00 -
[9]
if you find a buyer that is. not every BPO actually keeps their value if they're overpriced (which many are in my own oppinion, but that's just my point of view). It might be true for those very popular ones like the Elite Ships, but I really do think it get's harder to rip off 2 billion of the buyer every time a small t2-gun BPO changes hands, as people will get more aware of selling prices and such and the effect of "it's new, it's cool, it's T2 (and maybe the original Owner did some Research as well)" will wear off as well over time as people realize that the Items are good, but one can actually live without them as well...
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 09:53:00 -
[10]
if you find a buyer that is. not every BPO actually keeps their value if they're overpriced (which many are in my own oppinion, but that's just my point of view). It might be true for those very popular ones like the Elite Ships, but I really do think it get's harder to rip off 2 billion of the buyer every time a small t2-gun BPO changes hands, as people will get more aware of selling prices and such and the effect of "it's new, it's cool, it's T2 (and maybe the original Owner did some Research as well)" will wear off as well over time as people realize that the Items are good, but one can actually live without them as well...
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DeerHunter GE
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:29:00 -
[11]
Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 27/10/2004 10:34:11 Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 27/10/2004 10:33:40 If you find someone who is willing to pay this price fine...if not fine too. The Marked will make the prices. I simply assume that someone tried to make an big deal with his BPO. How many TechII items has to be produced of this kind to make this BPO profitable for the buyer....
I'am assuming. 2.000.000.000 isk. If you manage it to sell such an small gun for 500.000 bucks you have to build 4.000 pieces of them an sell them until you have your investment back. with the prod time (theoretical) of 5 Minutes each it'll take 4000*5/24=Days until the job is done. So you have to produce 833 days until you have managed to build so many items to make the investment pay.....but you already have to sell all the shi*** small guns :) even 200 Mio isk will be far to much isk for that BPO ! Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you! |
DeerHunter GE
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:29:00 -
[12]
Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 27/10/2004 10:34:11 Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 27/10/2004 10:33:40 If you find someone who is willing to pay this price fine...if not fine too. The Marked will make the prices. I simply assume that someone tried to make an big deal with his BPO. How many TechII items has to be produced of this kind to make this BPO profitable for the buyer....
I'am assuming. 2.000.000.000 isk. If you manage it to sell such an small gun for 500.000 bucks you have to build 4.000 pieces of them an sell them until you have your investment back. with the prod time (theoretical) of 5 Minutes each it'll take 4000*5/24=Days until the job is done. So you have to produce 833 days until you have managed to build so many items to make the investment pay.....but you already have to sell all the shi*** small guns :) even 200 Mio isk will be far to much isk for that BPO ! Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you! |
Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:34:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 27/10/2004 10:38:30 Only got to make 1,000 guns to make a billion using your example.
1,000 guns is not a lot when you remember that there are only 23 people ever going to be able to produce them.
When everyone has the skills and the component problem is sorted in shiva everyone will use tech 2 guns. That's when you'll get your money back.
But yes you are right in that a lot of the items are overpriced but that is just because everyone has too much money, got to spend it on something haven't you.
First guy to get the heavy ion blaster 2 BPO is going to have his arm taken off. I'll be ordering about 20 to start :)
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Iratus Caelestis
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:34:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 27/10/2004 10:38:30 Only got to make 1,000 guns to make a billion using your example.
1,000 guns is not a lot when you remember that there are only 23 people ever going to be able to produce them.
When everyone has the skills and the component problem is sorted in shiva everyone will use tech 2 guns. That's when you'll get your money back.
But yes you are right in that a lot of the items are overpriced but that is just because everyone has too much money, got to spend it on something haven't you.
First guy to get the heavy ion blaster 2 BPO is going to have his arm taken off. I'll be ordering about 20 to start :)
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:37:00 -
[15]
Not everyone is out to make a profit on it. Heavy assaults for example are going to be rare with their huge produciton time and cost and limited bpo spread.
This means paying 6 bill that you will eventually earn back to provide the pilots form your corp with the altest echnology at cost price might just be a good move maybe ?
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:37:00 -
[16]
Not everyone is out to make a profit on it. Heavy assaults for example are going to be rare with their huge produciton time and cost and limited bpo spread.
This means paying 6 bill that you will eventually earn back to provide the pilots form your corp with the altest echnology at cost price might just be a good move maybe ?
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Iratus Caelestis Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 27/10/2004 10:38:30 Only got to make 1,000 guns to make a billion using your example.
1,000 guns is not a lot when you remember that there are only 23 people ever going to be able to produce them.
When everyone has the skills and the component problem is sorted in shiva everyone will use tech 2 guns. That's when you'll get your money back.
But yes you are right in that a lot of the items are overpriced but that is just because everyone has too much money, got to spend it on something haven't you.
First guy to get the heavy ion blaster 2 BPO is going to have his arm taken off. I'll be ordering about 20 to start :)
don't forget you need Components and minerals as well, those come before profit. And the thing about everyone has too much money... some sure have too much, I don't really count to them, but that's another side. Even if I had loads of money I'd think about getting only slightly worse Items (read T1), if I can save like 90% on the price. I actually happen to have bought some T2-Guns for my Executioner, to check it out, but when I loose them at some point in time I'm probably not going to replace them for the amount of Isk they cost right now and that's what I meant with people realizing that they're better, but right now way too expensive to replace T1-Items for good if you got the skills.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:43:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Iratus Caelestis Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 27/10/2004 10:38:30 Only got to make 1,000 guns to make a billion using your example.
1,000 guns is not a lot when you remember that there are only 23 people ever going to be able to produce them.
When everyone has the skills and the component problem is sorted in shiva everyone will use tech 2 guns. That's when you'll get your money back.
But yes you are right in that a lot of the items are overpriced but that is just because everyone has too much money, got to spend it on something haven't you.
First guy to get the heavy ion blaster 2 BPO is going to have his arm taken off. I'll be ordering about 20 to start :)
don't forget you need Components and minerals as well, those come before profit. And the thing about everyone has too much money... some sure have too much, I don't really count to them, but that's another side. Even if I had loads of money I'd think about getting only slightly worse Items (read T1), if I can save like 90% on the price. I actually happen to have bought some T2-Guns for my Executioner, to check it out, but when I loose them at some point in time I'm probably not going to replace them for the amount of Isk they cost right now and that's what I meant with people realizing that they're better, but right now way too expensive to replace T1-Items for good if you got the skills.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Not everyone is out to make a profit on it. Heavy assaults for example are going to be rare with their huge produciton time and cost and limited bpo spread.
This means paying 6 bill that you will eventually earn back to provide the pilots form your corp with the altest echnology at cost price might just be a good move maybe ?
It's quite profit as well... the saved ISK in this case makes the profit, that will pay off at some day.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 10:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius Not everyone is out to make a profit on it. Heavy assaults for example are going to be rare with their huge produciton time and cost and limited bpo spread.
This means paying 6 bill that you will eventually earn back to provide the pilots form your corp with the altest echnology at cost price might just be a good move maybe ?
It's quite profit as well... the saved ISK in this case makes the profit, that will pay off at some day.
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Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.10.27 11:08:00 -
[21]
A small gun is still a small gun
soon there will be lots of the same bpo and that one going for 2 bill will be worth 300 mill prolly.
Just leave it to the insanely (literaly) rich people.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.10.27 11:08:00 -
[22]
A small gun is still a small gun
soon there will be lots of the same bpo and that one going for 2 bill will be worth 300 mill prolly.
Just leave it to the insanely (literaly) rich people.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i |
Oosel
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Posted - 2004.10.27 11:41:00 -
[23]
what they may be doing is buying up the limited amount of bpos to make sure they are the only people capable of producing them...once they have them all they may then only sell to people within their own alliance giving them a certain tactical advantage or just wait until people are crying out for them and sell them for way over the suggested 1mill price......by limiting availability they can corner the market just look at harvy cost now compared to their 30k cost last year just because of their availability.....you defo have to look at long term strategies to appreciate why some peeps are currently doing what they are
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Oosel
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Posted - 2004.10.27 11:41:00 -
[24]
what they may be doing is buying up the limited amount of bpos to make sure they are the only people capable of producing them...once they have them all they may then only sell to people within their own alliance giving them a certain tactical advantage or just wait until people are crying out for them and sell them for way over the suggested 1mill price......by limiting availability they can corner the market just look at harvy cost now compared to their 30k cost last year just because of their availability.....you defo have to look at long term strategies to appreciate why some peeps are currently doing what they are
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 12:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Oosel what they may be doing is buying up the limited amount of bpos to make sure they are the only people capable of producing them...once they have them all they may then only sell to people within their own alliance giving them a certain tactical advantage or just wait until people are crying out for them and sell them for way over the suggested 1mill price......by limiting availability they can corner the market just look at harvy cost now compared to their 30k cost last year just because of their availability.....you defo have to look at long term strategies to appreciate why some peeps are currently doing what they are
Thanks for pointing that one out.
So at the end the hypercapitalistic nature of EVE hits again, making the rich ones, that are able to buy up the limited amounts of BPOs and that way creating the monopoly on this stuff, even richer (be that buy gaining a technical advantage over their enemies or by selling stuff at ridiculous prices)...
And personally I don't think that Monopolies on those Items will actually benefit the progress of the economy, but that's probably only me again
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.27 12:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Oosel what they may be doing is buying up the limited amount of bpos to make sure they are the only people capable of producing them...once they have them all they may then only sell to people within their own alliance giving them a certain tactical advantage or just wait until people are crying out for them and sell them for way over the suggested 1mill price......by limiting availability they can corner the market just look at harvy cost now compared to their 30k cost last year just because of their availability.....you defo have to look at long term strategies to appreciate why some peeps are currently doing what they are
Thanks for pointing that one out.
So at the end the hypercapitalistic nature of EVE hits again, making the rich ones, that are able to buy up the limited amounts of BPOs and that way creating the monopoly on this stuff, even richer (be that buy gaining a technical advantage over their enemies or by selling stuff at ridiculous prices)...
And personally I don't think that Monopolies on those Items will actually benefit the progress of the economy, but that's probably only me again
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.10.27 18:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lufio II
Originally by: Oosel what they may be doing is buying up the limited amount of bpos to make sure they are the only people capable of producing them...once they have them all they may then only sell to people within their own alliance giving them a certain tactical advantage or just wait until people are crying out for them and sell them for way over the suggested 1mill price......by limiting availability they can corner the market just look at harvy cost now compared to their 30k cost last year just because of their availability.....you defo have to look at long term strategies to appreciate why some peeps are currently doing what they are
Thanks for pointing that one out.
So at the end the hypercapitalistic nature of EVE hits again, making the rich ones, that are able to buy up the limited amounts of BPOs and that way creating the monopoly on this stuff, even richer (be that buy gaining a technical advantage over their enemies or by selling stuff at ridiculous prices)...
And personally I don't think that Monopolies on those Items will actually benefit the progress of the economy, but that's probably only me again
I've been realy outspoken about the Tech 2 monopoly thing. I don't think things will change I feel their minds are set on this being the norm in the game . I'll have to buy sim city or something to satisfy my urge to build things cheap and make loads of currency but then no one will know how awesome you are if no one sees it. No Monopoly is just a myth anyway don't tell me the Capacitor Rechargers 2s are not a Monopoly. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Fuse
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Posted - 2004.10.27 18:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lufio II
Originally by: Oosel what they may be doing is buying up the limited amount of bpos to make sure they are the only people capable of producing them...once they have them all they may then only sell to people within their own alliance giving them a certain tactical advantage or just wait until people are crying out for them and sell them for way over the suggested 1mill price......by limiting availability they can corner the market just look at harvy cost now compared to their 30k cost last year just because of their availability.....you defo have to look at long term strategies to appreciate why some peeps are currently doing what they are
Thanks for pointing that one out.
So at the end the hypercapitalistic nature of EVE hits again, making the rich ones, that are able to buy up the limited amounts of BPOs and that way creating the monopoly on this stuff, even richer (be that buy gaining a technical advantage over their enemies or by selling stuff at ridiculous prices)...
And personally I don't think that Monopolies on those Items will actually benefit the progress of the economy, but that's probably only me again
I've been realy outspoken about the Tech 2 monopoly thing. I don't think things will change I feel their minds are set on this being the norm in the game . I'll have to buy sim city or something to satisfy my urge to build things cheap and make loads of currency but then no one will know how awesome you are if no one sees it. No Monopoly is just a myth anyway don't tell me the Capacitor Rechargers 2s are not a Monopoly. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.28 08:09:00 -
[29]
well, one thing's for sure... the BPOs I get my hands on aren't going into a monopoly by anyone else than me, since as soon as I have one it will be locked away very good never to be sold again, no matter what. If I should ever happen to make a double on one t2-BPO, it's still time to think about what to do with the second one.
To bad I only have one so far
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.10.28 08:09:00 -
[30]
well, one thing's for sure... the BPOs I get my hands on aren't going into a monopoly by anyone else than me, since as soon as I have one it will be locked away very good never to be sold again, no matter what. If I should ever happen to make a double on one t2-BPO, it's still time to think about what to do with the second one.
To bad I only have one so far
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