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Deimona
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Posted - 2009.10.11 03:05:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Corporate Thief Edited by: Corporate Thief on 08/10/2009 00:06:05 I plead the Third.
"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."?
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2009.10.11 17:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Chipan Asty
Originally by: Ethan Hunte I am not a troll.
I am an elf.
What IS the difference between a troll and an elf (beside the ears)?
actually they both have pointy ears. there real differences include several hundred pounds of muscle mass, radically different ideas of personal hygiene and musical aptitude to name just a few.
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Corporate Thief
Caldari Code Triage
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Posted - 2009.10.11 17:01:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Deimona
Originally by: Corporate Thief Edited by: Corporate Thief on 08/10/2009 00:06:05 I plead the Third.
"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."?
I have few principles, but I stick to them. ---
Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
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Heimanu
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Posted - 2009.10.12 05:26:00 -
[64]
A douche in-game is most likely a douche IRL. But pirates aren't all douches and bears can be/are mostly douches. -------====== Signature ======------
Relativity : Since Light is faster than Sound , some people seems bright , until they open their mouth. |
Bal'Ayle
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Posted - 2009.10.12 15:05:00 -
[65]
fair point, i scam cheat and steal in eve, but then i mine give things away and have a laugh. if your human you lie, simple as, thru error or intention the human condition stipulates one fundamental similarity shared by all forms or races of human, we see truth and spread lies.
are you telling me a carebare wouldn't lie about his share of the ore/salvage if he thought he could get away with it? would you limit yourself to rules you don't 100% trust the other to abide by?
what is 2-3 mil skimmed of the top as an extra cut? - do you round up shares in loot like myself to the nearest thousand, keeping the odd hundreds for yourself to make things neater, isn't that theft? or is that organisation?
as for scamming, to be honest that's a silly mistake on your part, scamming thru a game is still scamming :P i can understand your stance on that but its real life scamming anyway, cant scam an NPC can you ;P
plus its easier and much cheaper to scam then to earn something, if i was capable of flying a freighter for example, but didn't want to pay, id go somewhere make friends with someone with the hauler i wanted and scam them into letting me "test" it or some such crud, its easy to do. costs about 1-3 mil and takes no effort ^^
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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2009.10.12 21:01:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 12/10/2009 21:02:42 I steal and kill everyone I can in EVE.
I work in a tutoring center IRL.
Being able to achieve, manipulate situations, gain advantages and put other people at disadvantages in a COMPETITIVE SCENARIO/SPORT/GAME is what I am trying to do in EVE.
If you are taking EVE too seriously, then you will be taking EVE to be real life. The object of EVE is to do whatever it is you set out to do. I set out to destroy and achieve "victory" in whatever way I see appropriate. If you're here to build stuff and make friends...then...you're not playing the same way I am.
I'm playing pew pew with complete disregard for what I pew pew on. You're playing pew pew with your "rules" that YOU made up for yourself to make yourself feel better about yourself when you yourself are but only yourself.
Edit: Typo's You're givin me gah ---
How to Fix Security Status |
Word
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Posted - 2009.10.12 23:33:00 -
[67]
The really bad people are the key loggers, isk sellers, and spammers.
The player scammers will have to suffer the consequences of karma and spend some time in pixel hell and then have to be reborn starting all over as Eve Billboards, or as a civilian mining laser.
I want to be LUDICROUS |
spongebobbb
Amarr Chewin' The Fat
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Posted - 2009.10.14 07:40:00 -
[68]
yes i am, i also murder people then collect thier corpse and blow up peoples real life spaceships for no good reason.
once i even sold somone a ferrari but it was actualy a lada riva painted red with ferrari stenceled on the back.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 07:58:00 -
[69]
Opportunity makes the thief much more than an inherent evil nature, so the question is really pointless.
Also, is a girl with a push-up bra and a load of makeup that makes her look attractive but looks really ugly the morning after a scammer and hence a criminal and evil person?
As an Amarrian I blame lack of faith and proper morals of course.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Gzalzi Tralan
Gallente Tralan Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.14 08:12:00 -
[70]
They do what they must to make a living. While many may feel pirates are "bad," it is purely subjective.
I respect the ideals of those who may be thought of as pirates that go out to the far reaches of the galaxy to find fame, fortune, and power; those who want to establish colonies and empires.
That said, those who simply want to kill every living thing they come across purely for the fun of making others miserable are the only ones I feel comfortable labeling as "bad."
Thank you for your time,
Gzalzi Tralan CEO Tralan Industries |
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MightyRhinox
Minmatar Rhinox Heavy Industries Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 08:25:00 -
[71]
Originally by: z0de Once I played a game where I was a terrorist and planted a bomb. I hope I'm not in trouble.
That reminds me of the time I was playing CS in a net cafe late at night, a bunch of guys with tea towels wrapped around their heads came in to rob the place. My first reaction on seeing them was "F***, terrorists, where's my AK?"
True story.
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Stratio
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.14 09:01:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Ethan Hunte Well the evil scammers in eve argue that it is only a game and they are not scammers and thieves in real life.
There's stuff that happens in-game and there's stuff that happens out-of-game.
So contract scamming is one thing, but making fake real life friendships specifically in order to then rob a corp is no longer 'just playing a game'. _____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.10.14 12:59:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Primnproper on 14/10/2009 12:59:02
Originally by: Sir Carnage Seriously, stop pretending to have a clue about what you're talking about. Egoism is all but debunked. Do you know what the principle of falsification is? Assuming you do, Egoism suffers from the issue of falsification not being possible. If you understand what falsification and begging the question are, you can see where the problem with egoism is. Seeing as the likelihood is that you have no clue what I'm talking about...
Stop talking about concepts you don't understand!
Although I completely disagree with the ops points, I disagree with yours more.
Talking about concepts you don't understand is the only you learn about things and even it wasn't thats no reason not to do it.
Philsophical discussion and thought is not the sole property of those educated in such things it belongs to all/none and what better place to have it out than on the forums of a massive social experiment.
Also who cares if various things have been disproven irl, that doesn't matter here in eve you can play out those things and see if they actually work (in part or in whole) without running into a lot of the moral and legal issues which stand in the way of such things irl.
Or to put it bluntly, get off your f'ing high horse, people can talk about whatever they want on here regardless of their education and/or knowledge of speciallist subjects.
Especially when such subjects are as hand wavey as philosophy.
...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:26:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Primnproper Edited by: Primnproper on 14/10/2009 12:59:02
Originally by: Sir Carnage Seriously, stop pretending to have a clue about what you're talking about. Egoism is all but debunked. Do you know what the principle of falsification is? Assuming you do, Egoism suffers from the issue of falsification not being possible. If you understand what falsification and begging the question are, you can see where the problem with egoism is. Seeing as the likelihood is that you have no clue what I'm talking about...
Stop talking about concepts you don't understand!
Although I completely disagree with the ops points, I disagree with yours more.
Talking about concepts you don't understand is the only you learn about things and even it wasn't thats no reason not to do it.
Philsophical discussion and thought is not the sole property of those educated in such things it belongs to all/none and what better place to have it out than on the forums of a massive social experiment.
Also who cares if various things have been disproven irl, that doesn't matter here in eve you can play out those things and see if they actually work (in part or in whole) without running into a lot of the moral and legal issues which stand in the way of such things irl.
Or to put it bluntly, get off your f'ing high horse, people can talk about whatever they want on here regardless of their education and/or knowledge of speciallist subjects.
Especially when such subjects are as hand wavey as philosophy.
You seem to have missed my point. I'm all for discussing concepts like egoism and it's merits. The problem is that the OP presents it as an incontrovertible fact. He is acting as if he is an expert source on the matter. The other thing you missed is that he is applying it to real life and making the claim that how you behave in game is a reflection on how you behave out of game. This simply is not true and has no merit whatsoever. To let it be is to allow such idiocy to permeate, and we just can't have that.
I have a question of you. Would you offer an opinion on an engineering discussion to an engineer having no real knowledge of engineering? Would you tell a physician he's wrong when you have no background in medicine? Would you try to advise an architect on structural integrity with no background in architecture? If the answer to the questions are 'no', then why would you think to offer an opinion on egoism when you have no background in philosophy?The answer that the philosophical community most commonly comes up with is that everyone has a 'philosophy' so they all think their opinion on the subject is valid and should be heard out.
Philosophy is like any other specialty. It requires a lot of studying. You need to know what it is before you can try to build on it. You may believe that thinking logically/rationally is a given, but I sit in logic classes and watch as everyone tries to wrap their heads around the concepts being presented. The same pattern is repeated in ethics, epistemology, aesthetics, etc.
Discusing the topic is fine. Acting like you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't, isn't. Saying it's a "hand wavy" subject is just another example of someone that has never bothered to study it. You might as well be calling theoretical physics "hand wavy" as it easily has as many competing theories as epistemology does.
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Codo Yagari
Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:44:00 -
[75]
Consider this:
What does it matter if you scam in real life, scam when speaking to someone over the phone, scam during playing monopoly, scam wherever?
If you scam in EVE, you scam. Interaction is made between humans with feelings who invest time and effort into their doings.
To hide behind some Role-playing excuse I would consider futile. Your actions still have effects. Why would scamming in EVE be less bad than otherwise? Is it not in this case more important to consider WHAT is being done than WHERE?
Consider that (and embrace NRDS policy today!).
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Lana's Alt
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Stratio
Originally by: Ethan Hunte Well the evil scammers in eve argue that it is only a game and they are not scammers and thieves in real life.
There's stuff that happens in-game and there's stuff that happens out-of-game.
So contract scamming is one thing, but making fake real life friendships specifically in order to then rob a corp is no longer 'just playing a game'.
I have never once considered anyone I have scammed in game to be a friend, either real or fake.. I say what they want to hear and do what they want me to do to get me access to the isk (or items) I want. I'm sorry if some people misinterpret this as friendship but its not.
People I do consider friends in the game I dont scam. This is a rather long list and a good reason why you should never, oh I dont know, kick me from your intel channel..
Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first. |
Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.10.14 13:54:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Sir Carnage You seem to have missed my point. I'm all for discussing concepts like egoism and it's merits. The problem is that the OP presents it as an incontrovertible fact. He is acting as if he is an expert source on the matter. The other thing you missed is that he is applying it to real life and making the claim that how you behave in game is a reflection on how you behave out of game. This simply is not true and has no merit whatsoever. To let it be is to allow such idiocy to permeate, and we just can't have that.
And I completely agree with you on those points though imo your previous posts didn't get them across very well hence my slightly annoyed response.
Originally by: Sir Carnage I have a question of you. Would you offer an opinion on an engineering discussion to an engineer having no real knowledge of engineering? Would you tell a physician he's wrong when you have no background in medicine? Would you try to advise an architect on structural integrity with no background in architecture? If the answer to the questions are 'no', then why would you think to offer an opinion on egoism when you have no background in philosophy?The answer that the philosophical community most commonly comes up with is that everyone has a 'philosophy' so they all think their opinion on the subject is valid and should be heard out.
Actually yes I would, and as an engineer with a background in physics I always value the opinion of others on technical subjects regardless of whether the people giving them have a technical background themselves.
In fact many of the wonders of mondern technogoly and science have been inspired by the drunken ramblings of a engineers/scientists uneducated friend after a bit of hand wavy background has been explained
You'd be amazed how well no formal higher eduction helps people to see things from other viewpoints and come up with inovative new solutions.
The only thing to be gained from dismissing the ideas and opinions of others based on there education or speciallity knowledge is ignorance and a closed mind.
Originally by: Sir Carnage Philosophy is like any other specialty. It requires a lot of studying. You need to know what it is before you can try to build on it. You may believe that thinking logically/rationally is a given, but I sit in logic classes and watch as everyone tries to wrap their heads around the concepts being presented. The same pattern is repeated in ethics, epistemology, aesthetics, etc.
Discusing the topic is fine. Acting like you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't, isn't.
Indeed it is and I can easily see that a full understanding of the subject takes years to develop, however at no point has the op claimed to know anything about or even named any of these concepts.
He has merely expressed his (completely wrong imo) opinions on the actions and morals of those who live on the darker side of eve.
Originally by: Sir Carnage Saying it's a "hand wavy" subject is just another example of someone that has never bothered to study it. You might as well be calling theoretical physics "hand wavy" as it easily has as many competing theories as epistemology does.
Once again, I do, especially as when I was studying physics 'hand wavy' was a phrase used many many times by the lecturers when discussing the more theoretical side of physics.
...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Codo Yagari
Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:12:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Codo Yagari on 14/10/2009 14:14:00 ** post removed by poster **
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Lana's Alt
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:16:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Codo Yagari Edited by: Codo Yagari on 14/10/2009 14:14:00 ** post removed by poster **
Oh good god, CVA cant even post to the forums correctly...
Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first. |
Codo Yagari
Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:19:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Lana's Alt
Originally by: Codo Yagari Edited by: Codo Yagari on 14/10/2009 14:14:00 ** post removed by poster **
Oh good god, CVA cant even post to the forums correctly...
And you certainly don't seem to be able to behave properly.
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Hanso Sparxx
Order of Shadows
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:21:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Codo Yagari Edited by: Codo Yagari on 14/10/2009 13:57:13
Consider this:
What does it matter if you scam in real life, scam when speaking to someone over the phone, scam during playing monopoly, scam wherever?
If you scam/pirate in EVE, you scam/pirate. Interaction is made between humans with feelings who invest time and effort into their doings.
To hide behind some Role-playing excuse I would consider futile. Your actions still have effects. Why would scamming in EVE be less bad than otherwise? Considering that some people spend more of their freetime in EVE than in RL. Is it not in this case more important to consider WHAT is being done than WHERE? BE GOOD!
Consider that (and embrace NRDS policy today)!
Carebears need to believe this (disonance) because their brains can't handle believing that a "good" person in "real-life" would be "mean" to them in a "video game".
If they didn't, their little heads would explode.
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Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:29:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Sir Carnage on 14/10/2009 14:33:00
Originally by: Primnproper
Originally by: Sir Carnage stuff
And I completely agree with you on those points though imo your previous posts didn't get them across very well hence my slightly annoyed response.
Originally by: Sir Carnage stuff
Actually yes I would, and as an engineer with a background in physics I always value the opinion of others on technical subjects regardless of whether the people giving them have a technical background themselves.
In fact many of the wonders of mondern technogoly and science have been inspired by the drunken ramblings of a engineers/scientists uneducated friend after a bit of hand wavy background has been explained
You'd be amazed how well no formal higher eduction helps people to see things from other viewpoints and come up with inovative new solutions.
The only thing to be gained from dismissing the ideas and opinions of others based on there education or speciallity knowledge is ignorance and a closed mind.
Originally by: Sir Carnage stuff
Indeed it is and I can easily see that a full understanding of the subject takes years to develop, however at no point has the op claimed to know anything about or even named any of these concepts.
He has merely expressed his (completely wrong imo) opinions on the actions and morals of those who live on the darker side of eve.
Originally by: Sir Carnage stuff
Once again, I do, especially as when I was studying physics 'hand wavy' was a phrase used many many times by the lecturers when discussing the more theoretical side of physics.
I'm going to make an assumption that there is a very real difference in the way people view your field and mine. In philosophy you are constantly dealing with every other person offering a, "You know what I think..." when they know your field of study is philosophy. Everybody(sweeping generalization) seems to think they're an expert on some philosophy because they all have their own 'philosophy'.
I made the comment of the OP acting as though he was an expert, because of the way he delivered his information. People don't even have to know what egoism is to act as though they are an authority on the concepts that fall within it's scope. It's a fairly common thing to run across, tbh. It really is quite maddening when you constantly hear/read ridiculous things on concepts you've studied, and they're being presented as facts when, at best, they are theories, but would more accurately simply be referred to as nonsense.
A prime example of this is Richard Dawkins. Don't get me wrong, the man truly is brilliant, but he's a scientist, and not a philosopher(though at one point all scientists were philosophers). The problem is that he offers a lot of philosophical opinions and makes an effort to support them with scientific theory. Whether or not he understands the topic he makes his opinions on is an uncertainty. When you look at some of the areas he supports, knowing what has transpired within the philosophical community, you would think that he hasn't fully grasped it or simply isn't bothered by it.
Philosophy has it's own cross discipline figures as well. Most notably is Bertrand Russel. Again, a brilliant man, but he offers opinions on subjects he simply is unqualified to speak on, and when you have knowledge of the subject you have to ask, "Was he on crack when he wrote this?"
That is a question I think I'd like the OP to answer as well.
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Lana's Alt
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:31:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Originally by: Lana's Alt
Originally by: Codo Yagari Edited by: Codo Yagari on 14/10/2009 14:14:00 ** post removed by poster **
Oh good god, CVA cant even post to the forums correctly...
And you certainly don't seem to be able to behave properly.
So you've also managed to fail at insults.. Go back to failing at running safe 0.0 space.
Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first. |
Codo Yagari
Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:32:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Hanso Sparxx
Originally by: Codo Yagari Edited by: Codo Yagari on 14/10/2009 13:57:13
Consider this:
What does it matter if you scam in real life, scam when speaking to someone over the phone, scam during playing monopoly, scam wherever?
If you scam/pirate in EVE, you scam/pirate. Interaction is made between humans with feelings who invest time and effort into their doings.
To hide behind some Role-playing excuse I would consider futile. Your actions still have effects. Why would scamming in EVE be less bad than otherwise? Considering that some people spend more of their freetime in EVE than in RL. Is it not in this case more important to consider WHAT is being done than WHERE? BE GOOD!
Consider that (and embrace NRDS policy today)!
Carebears need to believe this (disonance) because their brains can't handle believing that a "good" person in "real-life" would be "mean" to them in a "video game".
If they didn't, their little heads would explode.
The only one with a mental weakness here must surely be the mean person, who clearly had to be labelled scizophrenic.
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Codo Yagari
Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:38:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Lana's Alt
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Originally by: Lana's Alt
Originally by: Codo Yagari Edited by: Codo Yagari on 14/10/2009 14:14:00 ** post removed by poster **
Oh good god, CVA cant even post to the forums correctly...
And you certainly don't seem to be able to behave properly.
So you've also managed to fail at insults.. Go back to failing at running safe 0.0 space.
Clearly your insult was the less succesful and motivated.
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Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:41:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Codo Yagari Standard CVA bs
You really need to learn how to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Just because you like pac-man doesn't mean you're going to run around eating pills listening to techno music. Mario fans don't jump on turtles or shoot fire at mushrooms. Why would you think Eve is any different? If you plan to base it on the fact that there are other people in the game, well I remember playing Mortal Kombat, but I don't remember ever having an inclination to try to rip out somebody's spine in real life.
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Lana's Alt
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.10.14 14:58:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Clearly your insult was the less succesful and motivated.
Yeah i'll give you less motivated.. I cant be bothered with you..
Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first. |
Codo Yagari
Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 15:06:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Lana's Alt
Originally by: Codo Yagari
Clearly your insult was the less succesful and motivated.
Yeah i'll give you less motivated.. I cant be bothered with you..
Why not? What is it that you fear?
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.10.14 15:06:00 -
[89]
Fair enough, I suppose in engineering and physics it's always very clear when the person speaking doesn't have a sufficent knowledge of the area and therefore should only be listened to as inspiration rather than fact.
Whereas I can imagine that in philosophy people often sound more authoratative when in fact there ideas should still only be used for inspiration.
I personally would say that the failure in that case however, would be on the knowledgable mind not the ignorant one as those with knowledge in the area should have sufficent ability to be able to trawl through the ranting of the ignorant and pick out any jems of understanding.
Though I suppose others who may not be a knowledgable may take the opinions of those who don't have suciffcient grounding in the area as fact, which then only spawns more problems in long run...
Quote: "Was he on crack when he wrote this?"
That is a question I think I'd like the OP to answer as well.
I think thats something we can all agree on ...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Sir Carnage
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Posted - 2009.10.14 15:36:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Primnproper Fair enough, I suppose in engineering and physics it's always very clear when the person speaking doesn't have a sufficient knowledge of the area and therefore should only be listened to as inspiration rather than fact.
Whereas I can imagine that in philosophy people often sound more authoritative when in fact there ideas should still only be used for inspiration.
I personally would say that the failure in that case however, would be on the knowledgeable mind not the ignorant one as those with knowledge in the area should have sufficient ability to be able to trawl through the ranting of the ignorant and pick out any gems of understanding.
Though I suppose others who may not be as knowledgeable may take the opinions of those who don't have sufficient grounding in the area as fact, which then only spawns more problems in long run...
Quote: "Was he on crack when he wrote this?"
That is a question I think I'd like the OP to answer as well.
I think that's something we can all agree on
It's that there is such an abundance of it. And yes, for the same reason that people think they know, and should be listened to, other people are willing to listen and believe in the rants from them. It's because they have their own 'philosophy' and thus everybody's philosophical bs apparently has merit. Except when you have half a clue.
If people truly understood philosophy, particularly logic, we would have a completely different group/type of people in politics. If you ever sit down and try watching the news, debates, campaign speeches with a knowledge of what is and isn't a logical argument, and what is and isn't a logical fallacy you will have a very different experience than the typical person. There's a reason that the more educated a person becomes the more liberal(actual definition, not political party affiliation) and less politically stratified(in regards to political party) they become.
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