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OldWolfe
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.08 00:54:00 -
[1]
Some time ago, I decided to cross train over to Amarr's lovely Paladin ship. But...well, here's my problem; I don't exactly have an Amarr type of mentality after being around the Astarte ship of mine for about 2 years so I am not quite sure how practical/functional Beams vs Pulse lasers are in a Lv 4 mission.
Way I see it, I know that Beam = Rails while Pulse = Blasters.
But here's the funny thing: I have yet to take a single battleship into a lv 4 mission as I've only piloted an Astarte the whole time I've done lv 4 missions. I'm fairly sure I will be shouting in glee at how easy lv 4 missions will be when I start flying the Paladin.
My type of mission running is park and shoot things dead. I've heard of the pulse lasers reaching out to 60km which is pretty much the range of most NPCs. Then I've heard others pro and cons for beams. (And I don't like running around chasing NPCS just to use the blasters on any of the Gallente ships )
Needless to say, that's making my head swirl wondering which one to pick and train all the way to T2.
This is where you guys come in and hopefully put an end to this and help me out.
I'm here to learn.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.10.08 01:11:00 -
[2]
You will have an optimal of some 45km, and then a falloff of another 10km. Which yes, is plenty, and most importantly you don't _want_ to kill anything large outside of this range, since you have tractor beams(wether you salvage on site or not) that reach 40km out.
The advantages of the pulses are: Rate of fire Tracking Fitting Short-range dps
The disadvantages(compared to tachs) are: Range Damage at longer ranges Alpha
Now, I personally suggest you use tachs on the nightmare(You don't salvage, you get a tracking bonus, no fitting issues) and pulses on the paladin(Range is useless, alpha is very very rarely an advantage over rate of fire), however not everyone will agree. That said, the bulk of the training is not in the branches, the extra time for training tachyons if you have pulses i very marginal and you will most likely want both, even if you just use one of them most of the time. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 228883
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.08 01:12:00 -
[3]
T2 tachs and amarr navy ultraviolet crystals give you the range and dps to instapop ships at all the common ranges. At least thats what works on a nightmare which is basically a shield tanking paladin.
Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.10.08 01:32:00 -
[4]
Does the Paladin have the same range bonus as the Apocalypse and Navy Apocalypse? On either of those ships you fit Megapulse lasers because they can do monster DPS at such ludicrous ranges that gimping your fit and equipping beam lasers is pointless. Unless you plan on shooting rats outside of 70km, megapulse will do you fine.
That's IF the Paladin has the same bonus.
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AstroPhobic
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.08 01:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Does the Paladin have the same range bonus as the Apocalypse and Navy Apocalypse? On either of those ships you fit Megapulse lasers because they can do monster DPS at such ludicrous ranges that gimping your fit and equipping beam lasers is pointless. Unless you plan on shooting rats outside of 70km, megapulse will do you fine.
That's IF the Paladin has the same bonus.
Pally has no optimal bonus, but it has more room for TEs and TCs.
Personally I swapped out between tachs and pulse depending on the mission. I can see both sides of the argument.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.10.08 02:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: OldWolfe Way I see it, I know that Beam = Rails while Pulse = Blasters.
This isn't really a good comparison. I don't use rails so I dunno how much they're like beams, but I use both pulse and blasters and they are definitely nothing alike. The difference in range makes them totally different weapon systems.
Pulse don't hit out to 60km that easily on a Paladin since it doesn't get the range bonus. You can do it certainly but you have to devote 2-3+ slots to it. Really, the only reason I ever use pulses on my paladin is if I have an epically hard mission where I need the extra grid and cap for a 2nd armor rep / more repping, or for that one drone mission (Infiltrated Outposts?) where the low rate of fire of tachs make the mission take longer, since pretty much everything gets one-volleyed anyway.
If I could, I would use Tachs for every other mission, ever. Tachs + 1 or 2 tracking computers easily covers the 45km range of Scorch with Navy Multifrequency or Gamma, plus you get 24km falloff to play with instead of 10 so you don't have to be as careful with your ammo. With Tachs I have Multifrequency loaded for, I'd say, about 70% of the time.
With tachs you have the ability to hit out to over 100km if you want to which helps on some missions. The only times I don't really like them is if I've got a bunch of battleships sitting juuuust outside of web range, but that pretty much never happens, and even when it does it's not a big deal.
TL;DR: Fit tachs if you can. most (95% ish?) of the damage of Pulse at more than twice the range, much stronger range flexibility, not constantly burning through tech 2 ammo, sound awesome, look awesome, don't have the really underwhelming and lame graphic of pulse lasers, etc.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.10.08 03:36:00 -
[7]
tachs most of the time, but sometimes the megapulse are nice when stuff gets up close, damsel in distress is a good example. You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.10.08 03:57:00 -
[8]
I always use T2 Tachyons in my Paladin. Works very well. Pulse are good on a Navy Apoc...
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
OldWolfe
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.08 03:58:00 -
[9]
Why am I not surprised it is in some ways split in between both camps.
I will come back in the morning and read more in depth as I have another 26 days or so before I can fly the Paladin.
Thanks again, folks.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.10.08 04:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Manu Hermanus tachs most of the time, but sometimes the megapulse are nice when stuff gets up close, damsel in distress is a good example.
Forgot about damsel. Pulse are nice here mostly because if you use tachs and use a web to slow them down, it'll take way to long to kill them because they get very close so you really have to wait for a few web cycles before the tachs will hit them, and that's dangerous in that mission 'cause those merc BS put out some decent damage when they get up in your grill
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Fuazzole
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Posted - 2009.10.08 08:45:00 -
[11]
Does no one use Mega Beam + Aerator II
Does more DPS then Tachyon and less volly, which is actualy a good thing.
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MyForumSlave
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Posted - 2009.10.08 09:13:00 -
[12]
Imho the Pala is made for Tachs - especially Faction Tachs are great (almost t2 damage but less grid and cap usage).
I use this fitting...
Highs 4x AN Tachyon Beams (AN Standard for incoming frigs and cruisers >50km, AN Multis for anything closer) 2x tractor 1x salvager II
Medium: 1x Faction AB (nice for travelling to gates & to get away from angels in close orbit) 1x Dark Blood TC (tracking/range script) 2x Cap recharger II
Lows: 1x Officer LAR 2x Mission specific AN Hardeners / EANMs for drone missions 2x AN Heatsinks 1x Faction Power diagnostic 1x AN EANM OR 1x AN Heatsink (depending on tank needed)
Rigs: CCC II Auxiliary Nano Pump II
5x Hammerhead II 5x Hobgoblin II
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Purple Reign Entertainment
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:11:00 -
[13]
I love the Tachs on my Paladin, but I also got 2 tacking computers in med slots to help with tracking smaller ships. Usually take down frigs at long range (got some at 25km), then cruisers and in the end BS's. Got a 2nd account in a guardian to keep me alive :)
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.08 10:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fuazzole Does no one use Mega Beam + Aerator II
Does more DPS then Tachyon and less volly, which is actualy a good thing.
Any added Aerator rig would be severely penalized due to the 3 Heat Sinks you of course already have fitted. And in any case, the rig would give the same benefit to both Mega Beam and Tachyon.
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Raiizan
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Posted - 2009.10.08 12:26:00 -
[15]
Personally i prefer tachs - Navy tachs, using only AN MF crystals. Hits out to 57 easily, 33 optimal, reasonably good tracking and youll instapop everything with it while not using that much cap. If anything ever does come too close, a set of medium drones can take care of it.
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Galliana Foresta
Fleeting Moments of Insanity
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Posted - 2009.10.08 18:32:00 -
[16]
This is my old pulse Paladin fit before I sold it:
[Paladin, Gally's Pally, PvE] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Curator II x3
773 dps @ 62+9.6km 931 dps @ 21+9.6km
88/85 EM/therm resists, something like 1000 dps Sansha-specific tank.
It gets loltastic with Exile boosters, Numon Family Heirloom and Noble ZET4000 implants.
The Pally is winsauce in Amarr missions.
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Helen
Blood Traders Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.10.08 21:18:00 -
[17]
Your a sadistic bastard for running lvl 4 missions in an Astarte of all things.
TIME TO NUT UP OR SHUT UP |
Aralieus
Amarr Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.10.08 21:40:00 -
[18]
The age old debate of Tachs vs Pulse on Paladin. Everybody has their own preference I suppose and thats what matters most. I see both of them working quite nicely with advantages and disadvantages. I would prefer pulse simply because I wouldnt want to slowboat it out past 40km to pick up salv, most Amarr missions spawn BS's around 20-30km anyway. Only Guristas spawn past 70km iirc. Your call utimately, try both and pick which one you like best.
Fortune Favors the Bold!! |
OldWolfe
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.08 23:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Helen Your a sadistic bastard for running lvl 4 missions in an Astarte of all things.
*Laughs* How so, may I ask?
And after reading everyone's suggestions, inputs, advices, etc the best seems to be to try the pulse and beam out first at it's T1 level and decide from there. I give credit to those people that says it can go either way as it seems to work both ways depending on the person. So the best solution is to try them both out and see what braincells of mine giggles in glee the most while I kill things with either one of them; that will then be the one I pick.
By the way, will be using the Paladin for Gallente Navy missions. *Wonders if people will start gasping at such notion*
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Shoogie
Galactic Research Mining and Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.10.09 01:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: OldWolfe
Originally by: Helen Your a sadistic bastard for running lvl 4 missions in an Astarte of all things.
*Laughs* How so, may I ask?
And after reading everyone's suggestions, inputs, advices, etc the best seems to be to try the pulse and beam out first at it's T1 level and decide from there. I give credit to those people that says it can go either way as it seems to work both ways depending on the person. So the best solution is to try them both out and see what braincells of mine giggles in glee the most while I kill things with either one of them; that will then be the one I pick.
By the way, will be using the Paladin for Gallente Navy missions. *Wonders if people will start gasping at such notion*
*GASP* You really ARE a sadistic bastard!
Heh, J/K.
Trying them both out at TI level isn't going to work. Pulses become a completely different weapon system when you get Scorch. With Tech I pulses, you won't have enough range, and will be forced to chase down the far-orbiting ones. Chasing rats in a battleship would definately be the sub-optimal choice.
Tech II pulses let you use Scorch ammo to get the 45km +10km range mentioned above. Then you will be able to sit in one spot and kill everything. You also have the option to switch to higher damage ammo to do more DPS at close range.
Tech I beams already have enough range to let you sit in one spot and kill things. Tech II beams are just more damage. (From the PVE point of view.) With beams you can hit all the way out to your targetting range and don't have to wait for the rats to come to you in the missions where they start far away.
In my opinion, beams are for people who want to blitz a mission and get to the next one ASAP.
Pulses are for people who want to use their tractor beam bonus to make a nice ball and loot everything.
I also don't understand your reluctance to train both. If you've been flying level 4s in an Astarte, you should already have both Sharpshooter and Motion Prediction to 5. They are low rank skills anyway. The only long skill to train is Large Energy Turrets 5, and that opens up both large beams and large pulses. Spend the 5 days to train one to 4 then 5 more days to train the other to 4.
That's my advice.
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