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Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
35
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP seems to want to give some love to the frigates, but I keep wondering, What for? Are wasting their time and efforts on ships which lend little value to the experienced pilot (with only a few exceptions, noted below)?
The cruiser is a clear winner over the frigate in almost every situation/role. So, what are frigates good for? For the experienced Eve pilot, beyond cyno/travel ships, Cov Ops/SB, and Inties, what are frigates good for? Beyond the rare and relatively worthless gates which only allow frigates, and the rare times where ISK is at such a premium that a player can only afford a frigate, What could possibly be done to make frigates relevant in Eve again? What kind of roles would most naturally suit frigates to make them a natural choice for a weapon's platform? |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Frigate: 400k isk Cruiser: 4 mil isk
Yep, cruisers are superior in every way. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
Alara IonStorm
2394
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alliance wrote:Surely You're Joking OP's Alliance name fits the thread well. |
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
146
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your alliance name is very fitting. |
Alara IonStorm
2394
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Linda Shadowborn wrote:Your alliance name is very fitting. Hah beat you by seconds!
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Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
146
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Posted - 2012.06.09 01:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Linda Shadowborn wrote:Your alliance name is very fitting. Hah beat you by seconds!
*shakes a tiny fist* curse you!!! *laughs*
great minds and all :) |
Azock
The One Track Mind Cascade Imminent
1
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Posted - 2012.06.09 02:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Frigates are a significant part of the game already. I have been in many a fleet in Null where we would not of gotten a single kill if it weren't for the Frigates. Frigates provide excellent tackle, scouts, fleet warp to points, and more. In almost every single fleet I have been in, during my career, we have had at least a frigate or two and been all the better for it. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
419
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Posted - 2012.06.09 02:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Frigate fleets themselves are extraordinarily fast and agile. A frigate fleet has absolute power over when and where to engage - it can go balls deep into an enemy fleet, kill something expensive, and get out with few losses.
If you see frigates as pointless, then you must by extension see destroyers, cruisers, and cruisers as pointless because battleships will **** on anything below in a straight up fight much like cruisers will **** on frigates.
Quote:What could possibly be done to make frigates relevant in Eve again? What kind of roles would most naturally suit frigates to make them a natural choice for a weapon's platform?
My entire corp is dedicated pretty much to frigate warfare and we seem to do just fine. |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate Wormholes Holders
55
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Posted - 2012.06.09 03:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
They are fun - that's it. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.06.09 03:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Don't fly some cheap frigate.
1. Get the most expensive faction battleship on the market
2. Fit it with the most expensive stuff you can afford. In fact just buy PLEX and Officer fit it.
3. Jump into the first low security system you can find.
4. Watch in amazement as you just destroy every ship in the system.
5. If for some reason you fail it's only because of lag so repeat steps 1-4-í |
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Taoist Dragon
Black Rebel Rifter Club
2
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Posted - 2012.06.09 04:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote: The cruiser is a clear winner over the frigate in almost every situation/role.
This one line show's you have either no experience or no idea what the 'role' of frigates are.
Check out a few of the killboards for frigate centric corps like the Tuskers, Rifterlings and yes the Black Rebel rifter club and get a clue too just how effective frigates really are. |
Deckard Rahsh
Farewell and Adieu Terra Axiom
12
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Posted - 2012.06.09 09:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
OP did make one point very clear. That being that frigates need some love, if for no other reason than some that people will see them as valuable (which there most certainly are). IMHO frigates are one of the best and most underrated ship types in Eve.
Also, if so many ships are better then frigates, how come the only thing i really fear is an Alpha-Nado sitting on my undock Everything else i can get away from or maybe even kill (or at least scare the **** out of).
No, frigate are not worthless, not when flown well. |
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.06.09 09:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Frigates are good for fun and cheap combat, what else would you wish for?
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Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
46
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Posted - 2012.06.09 09:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:What kind of roles would most naturally suit frigates to make them a natural choice for a weapon's platform?
The only additional thing I can think of is making some frigates better at engaging cruiser-/BS-sized targets (at the expense of being fairly helpless when attacked by other frigates). Similar to what stealth bombers are like right now, just without the "stealth" part.
This would also make anti-frigate warfare more expensive, either by bringing some frigates of your own, or by equipping ships with anti-frigate weapons. |
Lili Lu
266
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Posted - 2012.06.09 12:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Don't fly some cheap frigate.
1. Get the most expensive faction battleship on the market
2. Fit it with the most expensive stuff you can afford. In fact just buy PLEX and Officer fit it.
3. Jump into the first low security system you can find.
4. Watch in amazement as you just destroy every ship in the system.
5. If for some reason you fail it's only because of lag so repeat steps 1-4-í OP do this.
Better yet, join FW and do this. You will own. |
Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
35
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Posted - 2012.06.09 12:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Anyone who suggests that flying an officer-fitted faction battleship in pvp/fw is a moron, and a detraction from a thread about making frigates relevant and a natural choice over a cruiser in some situations.
Anyone who cites that frigates are used in null sec is noting the exceptions which I already mentioned: intie, cov ops, and sb, etc. I am talking about the rest of the frigates.
And if a frigate is chosen because the pilot cannot afford 4 mil ISK for the cruiser hull, then that pilot has other problems. |
Lili Lu
266
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Posted - 2012.06.09 13:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Anyone who suggests that flying an officer-fitted faction battleship in pvp/fw is a moron, and a detraction from a thread about making frigates relevant and a natural choice over a cruiser in some situations.
Anyone who cites that frigates are used in null sec is noting the exceptions which I already mentioned: intie, cov ops, and sb, etc. I am talking about the rest of the frigates.
And if a frigate is chosen because the pilot cannot afford 4 mil ISK for the cruiser hull, then that pilot has other problems. Good to see that your alliance name is not only approporiate, but ironically appropriate. |
Klown Walk
Fat People Lag IRL
94
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Posted - 2012.06.09 13:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maybe people use them because it-¦s fun to use a frigate? |
Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
35
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Posted - 2012.06.09 14:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:Maybe people use them because it-¦s fun to use a frigate? I think that it is fun to win.
Otherwise, why not pvp in a shuttle? The dps is about the same, but the cost is much less. |
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Inglorious Waffles
95
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Posted - 2012.06.09 14:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
No other ship class is as agile as frigates, and no other ship class has scan res as high as frigates...thus, frigates are the best fast-tackle in the game, hands down. Not even exclusively specifying interceptors here...I've had plenty of success getting point on tings in T1 frigates.
No other ship class has as much pure speed, so if you need a warp in (and don't have probes...), then it's pretty much a frigate's job.
If you're going solo, it's often much easier to fight something large with a frigate, than to fight it with an equal-sized vessel. Case in point, there's a kill floating around somewhere of a Velator pilot that murdered an alpha-nado by getting under the guns.
No other ship class can move around in lowsec as easily, since most(not all, ofc) of the ships camping gates can't quite lock them fast enough to get a point.
I could go on for quite some time... Triple rep Myrms are like what you'd get if you strapped a beehive to Robocop. |
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
569
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Posted - 2012.06.09 15:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:For the experienced Eve pilot, beyond cyno/travel ships, Cov Ops/SB, and Inties, what are frigates good for?
"Except for the roles frigates are good for, what are frigates good for?"
4/10
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Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
364
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Posted - 2012.06.09 16:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
The answer you're looking for OP is between the lines. The favored ships have nuets in the highs, tracking enhancers and damage mods in the lows, and is often shield tanked. That kind of fit is very dangerous to frigates. It is also very often Minmatar.
As ships are rebalanced though those cookie cutter fits will have to rethink. Caldari hybrid boats will do shield tanking better then anyone else and have sick damage projection. What happens if CCP gives the Ferox and Moa a damage bonus instead of an optimal ala Merlin?
New tanking mods that are immune to nuets have also entered the equation. Nuets will lose some of their power and fear factor. So in the future I see the Hurricane pilot really having to think about nuets vs. missile launchers to get moar DPS just to stay competitive. And no nuets means you probably want a web. Then you have to armour tank of course so no TE. And that kind of ship will be much more vulnerable to frigates... The rifter is nerfed! thread in warfare and tactics will be repeated all along the Minmatar line.
TL;DR Minmatar isn't going away. But the age of Winmatar is coming to an end. And that will allow alot more variety. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1231
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Posted - 2012.06.09 18:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
It's because of people like OP that flying "irrelevant" ships is so fun. If everyone realized the power of frigates, I wouldn't get Deimoses GCCing on my Rifter on a lowsec gate and dying horribly because of it (or any number of similar situations).
Frigates have their place in Eve, and they fit in quite well. The frigate de-tierification will only help them do so even more. If you want to buff them and give them additional roles, I'm not going to complain, but it's wholly unnecessary. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Andy Landen
Exploring Eagles
35
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Posted - 2012.06.10 01:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Andy Landen wrote:For the experienced Eve pilot, beyond cyno/travel ships, Cov Ops/SB, and Inties, what are frigates good for? "Except for the roles frigates are good for, what are frigates good for?" 4/10
Alright, fine, let's put it another way. What are the following classes of frigates good for: T1, EAF, and AF?
In terms of dps, destroyers, dictors, and many cruisers own frigates easily. In terms of raw dps, frigates do nothing to structures. In terms of cap and speed, frigs are dead in the water against a cruiser's neuts. In terms of low sec gate and station guns, frigs are nothing against them and cannot initiate hostilities and survive. In terms of ewar, frigs have smaller bonuses and far fewer medium slots than a cruiser, thus making frigs terrible at ewar. In terms of EHP, the fight is over with a few webs/TPs on them.
1v1, I easily took an inty down with an assault BB. Even against 5 inties moments later, with some shield damage, the BB held up quite well and almost took another intie out if it were not for all the webs from the other inties. Given 2 more BBs free of webs and able to keep each inty pinned down, the inties would have been quickly dispatched. Of course, my heroic stand bought the time needed for the alliance to close the net on all the system's gates and catch them in bubbles as they fled. The last part only proves that a blob can kill some frigs, but it justifies my cruiser loss. The point is that frigs can NOT manage against lesser numbers of properly fit and flown cruisers, though cruisers CAN manage against fewer numbers of well-fit and well-flown BS by effectively using ewar and RR. |
Taoist Dragon
Black Rebel Rifter Club
2
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Posted - 2012.06.10 02:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you?
AF are massively powerful after the buff. They were powerful before now they pretty much kick cruisers around all day long.
New rebalanced T1's are great and are more than capable of taking on cruisers + if flown right.
EAF's have a niche true but in that niche they are downright nasty.
Seriously look at some of the small ship corps killboards and you will clearly see you are way way off the mark for frigs.
Other than that you are just trollling |
Mira Lynne
State War Academy Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2012.06.10 03:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote: thread in warfare and tactics will be repeated all along the Minmatar line. Oh Please God No!
Back on topic: Frigates were already Pretty Viable, but are about to get a whole lot more Viable. I look forward to seeing what the results of Tiericide will be on How Frigs interact with and compare against other ship types. Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread |
Aliaksandre
Black Rebel Rifter Club
19
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Posted - 2012.06.10 03:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
New rule: You shouldn't be allowed to post on the forums unless you have have actually played the game and "get" EVE.
We can do that, right?
...right? |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
190
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Posted - 2012.06.10 05:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:CCP seems to want to give some love to the frigates, but I keep wondering, What for? Are wasting their time and efforts on ships which lend little value to the experienced pilot (with only a few exceptions, noted below)?
The cruiser is a clear winner over the frigate in almost every situation/role. So, what are frigates good for? For the experienced Eve pilot, beyond cyno/travel ships, Cov Ops/SB, and Inties, what are frigates good for? Beyond the rare and relatively worthless gates which only allow frigates, and the rare times where ISK is at such a premium that a player can only afford a frigate, What could possibly be done to make frigates relevant in Eve again? What kind of roles would most naturally suit frigates to make them a natural choice for a weapon's platform? Frigates are for null and FW
May not be intentional, but that's what they're good at these days. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2012.06.10 16:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:Anyone who suggests that flying an officer-fitted faction battleship in pvp/fw is a moron
Anyone who actually thought my reply was serious and didn't get I was joking is... well you figure it out
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Lojak 2501
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.06.10 19:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
they seems pretty damn good at taclking. |
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