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Donald 01Miner
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:31:00 -
[1]
My friend got ganked in a navy raven a long time ago...but it was a trick like he got grouped with some scammer who got criminal flag somehow and that made him a crim anyway.
I've heard rumors and talk, if you are just minding your own business can some group gank squad you in 1.0 if you don't fall for something like this? Kind of a big investment in golem or maurauder equipment etc to know have a real answer for this type of thing?
Cadet Donald_01miner (Mining & Transport) - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:38:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Donald 01Miner My friend got ganked in a navy raven a long time ago...but it was a trick like he got grouped with some scammer who got criminal flag somehow and that made him a crim anyway.
I've heard rumors and talk, if you are just minding your own business can some group gank squad you in 1.0 if you don't fall for something like this? Kind of a big investment in golem or maurauder equipment etc to know have a real answer for this type of thing?
You can be ganked ANYWHERE in space. ANYWHERE. Doesn't matter of it's 0.0 or 1.0.
There are penalties for the ganker in highsec space, but there is no PREVENTION. Because of that, EvE encourages you to fly a little paranoid, and fit as if you can be attacked anywhere. Because you can.
Basically, don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and recognize that it's a Big Bad Universe, with people who have Evil Intentions. Because of that, you will lose ships - the more expensive and better outfitted, the more likely some ganker will come along and make a try for Phat Loot. Remember that a "gank blob" is either doing it for the lulz (in which case there's nothing you can do at all), OR is looking for a really fat target to make up for EVERYONE in the blob losing their ships when CONCORD shows up. So - don't be a fat target.
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FISHANDCHIPS
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:38:00 -
[3]
if you do something stupid like you deserve to die
dont to anything stupid and you will be alright
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Donald 01Miner
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:43:00 -
[4]
That doesn't tell me much? So how is this accomplished?
They can just get a group of 10 guys in t2 or cheaper ships, somehow 'scan you down' when yer doing a mission and gang **** you? And the feds don't show up fast enough to kill theM?
I guess if yer out with a friend 2 marauders does it make you more likely to survive? or they ust bring 2 guys to lock you dowN? Tryin to figure out what they might do and waht you can do to preper to try to avoid it Cadet Donald_01miner (Mining & Transport) - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/10/2009 01:50:45 It's ridiculously hard to gank a marauder. Definitely possible though.
A mission ship isn't going to have a huge buffer...probably good resistances, but not to all damage types. You'd need a large number of battleships (torp Ravens preferred for variable damage type) to get in there and, all at once, alpha the marauder. The number of ships required would be large, though, and would require very good planning and coordination.
After Dominion, ridiculous alpha will mean that minmatar BS will be preferred for this type of gank. 75% alpha strike boost will make them LOLWTF for hisec ganks.
For it to be worth the effort, you'd either need to really hate the guy you're doing it to, or he would need to have a -very- expensive fit.
As said above, the best defense is simply not giving them a reason to go through all that effort.
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Donald 01Miner
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:57:00 -
[6]
well that makes me feel better, we didn't play on rolling officer slot **** everything lol
so if 1 maurader is hard 2 would be harder cuz 2nd might be free to fight bacK/ or I guess a good gank squad would just lock us both down and it would be a juicier target?
I guess they stealth in and scan your ship to see what yer using? guess im ignorant to that part of the game, i was always jsut a miner :)
tx for the info i appreciate it. I'll have to look into this alpha strike stuff Cadet Donald_01miner (Mining & Transport) - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 02:07:00 -
[7]
You wouldn't be able to fight back or anything. In 1.0 CONCORD arrives and jams in less than 5 seconds. Your defense is
a) Not being a juicy target,
b) noticing the GIANT BATTLESHIP GANKSQUAD before it opens fire on you
c) Having enough tank to withstand it. Overheating hardeners helps
Don't worry too much about it unless you -really- ****ed someone off...AND that person has access to a ****ton of pilots with gank BS (15-20+ at least)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.14 04:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/10/2009 01:50:45 It's ridiculously hard to gank a marauder. Definitely possible though.
A mission ship isn't going to have a huge buffer...probably good resistances, but not to all damage types. You'd need a large number of battleships (torp Ravens preferred for variable damage type) to get in there and, all at once, alpha the marauder. The number of ships required would be large, though, and would require very good planning and coordination.
After Dominion, ridiculous alpha will mean that minmatar BS will be preferred for this type of gank. 75% alpha strike boost will make them LOLWTF for hisec ganks.
For it to be worth the effort, you'd either need to really hate the guy you're doing it to, or he would need to have a -very- expensive fit.
As said above, the best defense is simply not giving them a reason to go through all that effort.
Marauders are actually one of the easier things to gank (well at least compared to navy ravens, and/or other faction bs)
and minmatar will only be preferred for super highsec work, torp raven will probably be better otherwise, 2 slots for neuts, and should be able to get off at least 2 volleys.
although with the concord buff that did increase costs quite a bit, but ships seem to be rather cheap I read about people buying in jita and self destructing for profit. so the prohibiting cost seems to be effort.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 04:50:00 -
[9]
Quote: and minmatar will only be preferred for super highsec work, torp raven will probably be better otherwise, 2 slots for neuts, and should be able to get off at least 2 volleys.
Concord response time even in .5 is not much longer than 10 seconds...that is, you have time for one neut cycle. You're not going to cap him out with one neut cycle.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.14 06:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: and minmatar will only be preferred for super highsec work, torp raven will probably be better otherwise, 2 slots for neuts, and should be able to get off at least 2 volleys.
Concord response time even in .5 is not much longer than 10 seconds...that is, you have time for one neut cycle. You're not going to cap him out with one neut cycle.
well of course you only get 1 neut cycle, but if you are ganking them in mission they will probably be around 30-40% cap and 6 or so neuts should take care of most ships (not trying to do this solo), if you gank them on jump in there is a good chance they won't be able to get stuff active out of shock, and/or because you have 10-20 people with 1-2 neuts each.
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.10.14 08:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Donald 01Miner My friend got ganked in a navy raven a long time ago...but it was a trick like he got grouped with some scammer who got criminal flag somehow and that made him a crim anyway.
Sounds like the old "Lofty" trick. No, they changed the gang/war mechanics so it can't be done any more. (but you could still be suicide ganked)
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Loco Eve
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.15 04:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: FISHANDCHIPS if you do something stupid like you deserve to die
dont to anything stupid and you will be alright
stupid is as stupid does
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Kaya Divine
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.15 11:51:00 -
[13]
If you are flying in a fat ship lets say full officer fit nightmare, you will for sure use damage control, and even if you will have active omni tank of 1400+ they as said people before me will neut you. So those guys who do fly in expencive ships will allways be aligned to something, so when they see even one BS entering mission pocket they will be gone before they manage to lock him or her down. That is a price to pay for having expensive mods. But one 1b+ mod will not make you a fat target, because it have BIG chance that it will be destroyed so really not worthy of effort. But two or tree...that's another story.
But if you see red target which become red just by taking some junk from yours wreck, its isn't smart to shot at it AT ALL. Just ignore it, and do check if you have auto targeting OFF.
I know some of guys who did survive suicidal gank of 15 ravens. Why...because of dmg control and ability to overheat hardeners. But they will never go afk while in space in those beastly ships. So i would say it is safe as long you make it safe for yourself.
I'm using only t2, because even If I could afford officer mods I couldn't afford to lose them.
Shoot your shot... |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.16 11:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Donald 01Miner
They can just get a group of 10 guys in t2 or cheaper ships, somehow 'scan you down' when yer doing a mission and gang **** you? And the feds don't show up fast enough to kill theM?
Welcome to EVE Online. The agressors will lose their ships to Concorde...* you might lose your ship to them.
*assuming it's not done under a wardec/kill rights/can flipping thing Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.16 11:55:00 -
[15]
There's also a trick with drones to make you red (and killable) by hi sec attackers without Concord intervening at all. I petitioned it twice but CCP answered it's not an exploit, despite it's easy to pull off and basically forfeits Concord reason to exist.
(No I won't tell here how to do it).
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.16 16:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha There's also a trick with drones to make you red (and killable) by hi sec attackers without Concord intervening at all. I petitioned it twice but CCP answered it's not an exploit, despite it's easy to pull off and basically forfeits Concord reason to exist.
(No I won't tell here how to do it).
if you want it to become an exploit the fastest way to get it into an exploit is to post it on the forums.
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Neckbeard Griefmonger
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Posted - 2009.10.16 17:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden You wouldn't be able to fight back or anything. In 1.0 CONCORD arrives and jams in less than 5 seconds. Your defense is
a) Not being a juicy target,
b) noticing the GIANT BATTLESHIP GANKSQUAD before it opens fire on you
c) Having enough tank to withstand it. Overheating hardeners helps
Don't worry too much about it unless you -really- ****ed someone off...AND that person has access to a ****ton of pilots with gank BS (15-20+ at least)
They come a lot faster than that. I tested a .9 system and I was scrammed and jammed in under 2 seconds easy.
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Cal Anoth
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Posted - 2009.10.16 20:31:00 -
[18]
meh... it's pretty common knowledge and not an exploit, and it's easy to counter.
All you have to do is aggress (by say stealing from a can) just at the moment the drones pop the ship they are targeted on. If you are lucky, and the missioner has drones set to aggresssive, the drones may aggro you because they are set to fire on anything that performs an aggressive action. You then have been aggroed by the missioner and can defend yourself :P. It often gets stepped up a notch by having an alt warp a BS into the mission for the original guy who was trying to bait you in a small frig, to instantly step into. The rumors that you can counter this by targeting the ship are false, as they don't stop you from getting into your own ship.
Easy counter? Set drones to passive or call them in. Not a real big deal no matter what. Pretty much you have to just not be paying attention to get caught by this.
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Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.17 10:19:00 -
[19]
You can leave a targeted ship but you cannot enter a targeted ship, so if you lock up the batleship you can't jump from you frigate into it.
Tested on TQ about 3 minutes ago just cause you made me think twice about it - In essence, any combat related activity involving damage has been 'speed nerfed' to just take 6 times longer with a predetermined outcome coined balance by CCP. |
Kaya Divine
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.17 12:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cal Anoth meh... it's pretty common knowledge and not an exploit, and it's easy to counter.
All you have to do is aggress (by say stealing from a can) just at the moment the drones pop the ship they are targeted on. If you are lucky, and the missioner has drones set to aggresssive, the drones may aggro you because they are set to fire on anything that performs an aggressive action. You then have been aggroed by the missioner and can defend yourself :P. It often gets stepped up a notch by having an alt warp a BS into the mission for the original guy who was trying to bait you in a small frig, to instantly step into. The rumors that you can counter this by targeting the ship are false, as they don't stop you from getting into your own ship.
Easy counter? Set drones to passive or call them in. Not a real big deal no matter what. Pretty much you have to just not be paying attention to get caught by this.
I noticed that my hammers or hobs are MUCH more faster in moving from target to target when set to aggressive then when they are passive...I was shocked to see that they could speed up so much across the screen. Not sure is it intended or not. And sometimes because they are mostly passive, there is always only one drone which is moving its fat bottom much slower then others...not sure why.
But that is for different topic.
Shoot your shot... |
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.10.18 00:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kell Braugh You can leave a targeted ship but you cannot enter a targeted ship, so if you lock up the batleship you can't jump from you frigate into it.
Tested on TQ about 3 minutes ago just cause you made me think twice about it
Huh? Did you make sure the ship was flagged as yours? This still worked not that long ago but only for your own ships. There's more to it than just trying to get into a floating ship which is targeted. I'm pretty sure he's right, that targeting is not an effective counter to every circumstance. Just to some.
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Taedrin
Gallente White Horizon
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Posted - 2009.10.18 01:17:00 -
[22]
Unwritten rule of EVE #1 - Never undock in a ship that you can not afford to lose. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.18 05:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cal Anoth meh... it's pretty common knowledge and not an exploit, and it's easy to counter.
All you have to do is aggress (by say stealing from a can) just at the moment the drones pop the ship they are targeted on. If you are lucky, and the missioner has drones set to aggresssive, the drones may aggro you because they are set to fire on anything that performs an aggressive action. You then have been aggroed by the missioner and can defend yourself :P. It often gets stepped up a notch by having an alt warp a BS into the mission for the original guy who was trying to bait you in a small frig, to instantly step into. The rumors that you can counter this by targeting the ship are false, as they don't stop you from getting into your own ship.
Easy counter? Set drones to passive or call them in. Not a real big deal no matter what. Pretty much you have to just not be paying attention to get caught by this.
as unlogical as that sounds it sounds completely eve logical
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Lord CH0w
Caldari Xenogenics
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Posted - 2009.10.18 11:16:00 -
[24]
Hi, i got a question.
today while doing mission i got ninja salvaged (no biggie) but also same person looted wrecks - there was no warning that something like that happened, no yellow timer in upper left corner or anything - the only thing that changed was that he was flashing red when i warped with salvacane on site and saw him, after 1 sec he warped out and i looted/salvaged the rest.
So, is it "safe" to loot/salvage wrecks while ppl are in other pocket/station etc? How can i find out if someone is aware of that action - i mean i will probably get warning of crminal action i intend to do but other then that??
tia
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testirania
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Posted - 2009.10.18 12:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lord CH0w Hi, i got a question.
today while doing mission i got ninja salvaged (no biggie) but also same person looted wrecks - there was no warning that something like that happened, no yellow timer in upper left corner or anything - the only thing that changed was that he was flashing red when i warped with salvacane on site and saw him, after 1 sec he warped out and i looted/salvaged the rest.
So, is it "safe" to loot/salvage wrecks while ppl are in other pocket/station etc? How can i find out if someone is aware of that action - i mean i will probably get warning of crminal action i intend to do but other then that??
tia
From what little knowledge I have of salvagethieves if it is a corpmate of yours then he wouldnt flash red when looting your wrecks, if your still in the pocket with huim
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Lord CH0w
Caldari Xenogenics
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Posted - 2009.10.18 12:33:00 -
[26]
hi,
as i said - he was flashing red when i saw him but until that time he has stolen 2 pockets worth of loot without alerting me in any way = no warning, no flashing timer, nothing. He was not from my corp (he was from Pator Tech School) and he wasnt in my fleet ;)
So the question still stands.
tia
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nafiy gnaw
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Posted - 2009.10.18 14:26:00 -
[27]
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 18/10/2009 14:28:58 You and your corp members can shoot him "legally" without CONCORD interference if he stole loot from your wreck.
However, it also means the theif are allowed to defend himself and shoot back at you for 15 minutes, WITHOUT concord interference either. He can also elongate that time by shooting your wreck, everytime he pops one of your wrecks he gets another 15minutes of "shooting rights" at you. It is, currently stand, allowed by CCP.
The moral of the story: If you dont have a PvP ship at hand, let the theive get his way. If you do, warp back in a PvP fitted ship. Coming with friends is even better, but do NOT fight a thief (who will be likely to come back in a PVP ship to kill you) in a PVE ship, bigger is not better, PVE battleship will fall to PVP frigates.
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Lord CH0w
Caldari Xenogenics
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Posted - 2009.10.18 20:33:00 -
[28]
hello,
i think i wasn't clear enough - i m only asking if there suppose to be any warning? like a pop-up window that says "Hey, someone just stole your stuff. You can kill him now." or a flashing timer of 15 min like in normal agressive behavior???
tia
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Iron Eater
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Posted - 2009.10.19 09:27:00 -
[29]
You only get an aggro counter if you are the agressor. If somebody loots your wrecks while you are off you wont notice.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.10.19 12:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
(No I won't tell here how to do it).
Drones set to aggressive may aggress anything they have legal right to aggress, including that ninja looter that got himself flagged...
Yes it's a stupid behavior, yes CCP think it's ok. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
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