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Dumb Jerk
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:16:00 -
[1]
Does anyone know anything about BIG, its management, and the Triple Titan lottery? BIG is sketchy on details and doesn't seem prepared to admit the lottery has not been successful. While we all admittedly take a risk when we buy a ticket, you can't claim to be reliable and honest while also saying "sorry, we're keeping the ISK indefinitely." Well, you can. But you'd be a twisting reality a bit. Anyone know anything? Am I really that far off when I call it a SCAM? At what point would MD and the like consider it to be a total failure or scam? |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:26:00 -
[2]
links to any threads or about the payouts?
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:33:00 -
[3]
Dont think you know the workload it is to pay all those tickets back, the lottery will launch it will just take a little longer. Know that i am in no way affiliated with BIG, i am just a ticket holder like the rest of you, or soon to be that is :) BIG i 100% trust...
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:37:00 -
[4]
OK I found the thread you are talking about.
Now I do not rate Tournsoul (TS) as a scammer.
But there is one thing I do know, is that TS is an ABSOLUTE stickler for the rules. If it says in the rules that the lottery will not be drawn until all 30,000 tickets have been sold then it is very likely going to be the case in this lottery.
I personally have had many arguments (on the forum posts) with TS about the rules in his/hers IPO's or bonds relating to BMBE, but TS will unlikely change opinion.
I personally would run the lottery at 100B for 1 Titan and close it (but I believe in adapting to keep my customers happy), where TS will only stick to the plan as written.
You could be waiting a long time for the draw, with the problem that not many more people will buy tickets because they know this.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.14 17:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: cosmoray OK I found the thread you are talking about.
Now I do not rate Tournsoul (TS) as a scammer.
But there is one thing I do know, is that TS is an ABSOLUTE stickler for the rules. If it says in the rules that the lottery will not be drawn until all 30,000 tickets have been sold then it is very likely going to be the case in this lottery.
I personally have had many arguments (on the forum posts) with TS about the rules in his/hers IPO's or bonds relating to BMBE, but TS will unlikely change opinion.
I personally would run the lottery at 100B for 1 Titan and close it (but I believe in adapting to keep my customers happy), where TS will only stick to the plan as written.
You could be waiting a long time for the draw, with the problem that not many more people will buy tickets because they know this.
Unfortunately if he downsized the lottery, a part of the buyers would rightfully call it fraud because the contract rules were violated and they could not vote wether they accepted it or not. So, despite it's a lose-lose situation, the lottery holder is right. Or at least, doing the less worst of the choices. - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Dumb Jerk
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Posted - 2009.10.14 18:17:00 -
[6]
Here's the link for others who aren't familiar with it: BIG Triple Titan Lottery
Follow-ups to the posts so far:
- I'd like to draw your attention to my last request, at what point is this thing bust or a scam? If the logic used is simply "when all of the tickets sell, regardless of when that occurs," is the MD crowd okay with BIG keeping the money forever if the rest of the tickets don't sell? Does that SEEM reasonable, regardless of the "legal" language?
- Given that the original post can be (and has been) edited, does that mean the "contract" has validity each and every time it's edited? If the "contract" has been edited since I bought my ticket, have the terms of the "contract" changed? Do I have a right to refuse such changes? If I don't, what kind of contract is it? If the rules can be changed, how "solid" or "real" are the rules anyway?
- At what point, if any, does BIG have a responsibility to conclusively address the situation?
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.10.14 18:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Ji Sama on 14/10/2009 18:23:06 You knew the terms you bought the ticket under, this is not a scam.
He could have edited the post for many reasons, knowing Torn, he havent changed the contract.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.14 18:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dumb Jerk Here's the link for others who aren't familiar with it: BIG Triple Titan Lottery
Follow-ups to the posts so far:
- I'd like to draw your attention to my last request, at what point is this thing bust or a scam? If the logic used is simply "when all of the tickets sell, regardless of when that occurs," is the MD crowd okay with BIG keeping the money forever if the rest of the tickets don't sell? Does that SEEM reasonable, regardless of the "legal" language?
- Given that the original post can be (and has been) edited, does that mean the "contract" has validity each and every time it's edited? If the "contract" has been edited since I bought my ticket, have the terms of the "contract" changed? Do I have a right to refuse such changes? If I don't, what kind of contract is it? If the rules can be changed, how "solid" or "real" are the rules anyway?
- At what point, if any, does BIG have a responsibility to conclusively address the situation?
I personally don't like it, or think it is a good way of treating your customers but Tornsoul is within his rights to hold the cash under the terms of the lottery.
If this effects your opinion of the BIG lotteries don't invest in the future.
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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 18:49:00 -
[9]
www.eve-search.com is your friend
Quote:
[Lottery] BIG Triple Titan Lottery. 1 ticket could win you 3 titans! Posted - 2009.08.06 18:25:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edited by: TornSoul on 24/08/2009 22:53:59 Edited by: TornSoul on 11/08/2009 13:22:29 Edited by: TornSoul on 07/08/2009 07:14:43
1st edit : Typo's etc. 2nd edit : Added the firesale service information 3rd edit : Removed the firesale service fee
(Apart from that I'm staying out of this one - But I, and I'm sure all ticketholders, do welcome the extra exposure )
BIG Lottery |
Prodigal
Caldari New Genesis Project
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Posted - 2009.10.14 21:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dumb Jerk Does anyone know anything about BIG, its management, and the Triple Titan lottery? BIG is sketchy on details and doesn't seem prepared to admit the lottery has not been successful. While we all admittedly take a risk when we buy a ticket, you can't claim to be reliable and honest while also saying "sorry, we're keeping the ISK indefinitely." Well, you can. But you'd be a twisting reality a bit. Anyone know anything? Am I really that far off when I call it a SCAM? At what point would MD and the like consider it to be a total failure or scam?
BIG will do whats right regardless
They should be held in the highest regard if the question of TRUST comes up.
AFAIC - On the trust ladder we have:
Chribba BIG Ray McCormack Nashi Wenby . . . All others
And those on top could pretty much share the top rung.
The words BIG and SCAM just simply do not belong in the same sentence. And I do have my personal beefs with BIG, don't get me wrong, but they are trustworthy.
Cheers,
bunzo
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.14 21:39:00 -
[11]
who are Nashi and Wenby??
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Dumb Jerk
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Posted - 2009.10.14 22:09:00 -
[12]
Well, it turns out the way to get Torn to reply is to post anywhere but the relevant thread.
For the record, Torn, please state, with absolute precision, what you intend to do if you don't sell 30k tickets within the next 6 months. Then, state what you'll do if don't sell the tickets within a year. I think it's safe to say that if a year passes, the lottery is bust.
Finally, for those of you who keep sticking to "well, that's what he said" argument. Answer please: Is it okay for BIG to keep the ISK if the 30k tickets are NEVER sold? Yes or No will do. |
Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.14 22:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: cosmoray who are Nashi and Wenby??
Yea. I had the same reaction.
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.10.14 22:30:00 -
[14]
You fail to grasp the terms you yourself complied with when you bought the ticket. It doesnt matter if it takes 1 year or 100 years, the lottery will start when all tickets are sold. What is it you dont understand about this? If you didnt like these terms, you shouldnt have bought a ticket. He can keep the ISK untill all tickets are sold, and even if it takes forever he wont have breached the terms of his lottery.
Is it the right thing to do? NO
Is it his right to do it? YES
Is it a scam? NO
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Prodigal
Caldari New Genesis Project
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Posted - 2009.10.14 22:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: cosmoray who are Nashi and Wenby??
Yea. I had the same reaction.
Hehe,
Sorry guys....
These are just mates that I fully trust.
Cheers,
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Signore Kaeota
Caldari Caelum Incognitum
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Posted - 2009.10.15 05:02:00 -
[16]
yes. now get over it. -_-_-_-
I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and all offence caused by the contents of this above post, and all others that I have written, or otherwise been responsible for.
-_-_-_ |
Dumb Jerk
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Posted - 2009.10.15 14:36:00 -
[17]
Torn: what will you do if the lottery doesn't sell out in the next 6 months? What if it doesn't sell in the next 12 months?
You owe it to us to be straightforward. Your continual avoidance of the issue does you no good, does your customers no good, does the situation no good. The fact that you treat your customers with such contempt and disrespect is proof that you don't deserve whatever good reputation you've managed to garner.
To the @sshole: i understand just fine. Perhaps you don't understand the questions being asked. Or the point to which they are directed. But that would involve deductive logic and the ability to hold more than a single thought in your head, so I guess I'm not surprised. But then, I'm surprised by little that the BIG alts do or say, especially their laughable attempts to prop up their reputation and to fake buying more tickets. |
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.10.15 14:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dumb Jerk To the @sshole: i understand just fine. Perhaps you don't understand the questions being asked. Or the point to which they are directed. But that would involve deductive logic and the ability to hold more than a single thought in your head, so I guess I'm not surprised. But then, I'm surprised by little that the BIG alts do or say, especially their laughable attempts to prop up their reputation and to fake buying more tickets.
I loled :D You are the one that doesnt understand the terms you agreed to :D I am also sorry to inform you that i am not an alt of Torn, since im a Reithe alt already ;)
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Testiteppo
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Posted - 2009.10.15 14:46:00 -
[19]
I have 17m can I help?
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Bunzan Cardinal
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.10.15 15:03:00 -
[20]
tbh i dont know why people actually believed 30,000 tickets would sell.... 1/10 of the eve subscriber base would have to buy 1 ticket each. And tbh there just arent enough "lotto players" to sell that many tickets, even if it isnt a scam i dont see the lotto selling out.
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Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2009.10.15 15:06:00 -
[21]
well after reading the lottery and what people have said torn is like I think i can answer the questions with relative ease
after 6 months not all sold he'll wait another 6 months
after 1 year not all sold he'll wait another year
anyone guess what he'll do after 2 years?
on the basis that it'll then be the longest running lottery in eve ever I think people will buy a ticket just so that they can be part of it but I think that once it goes to 2999 tickets people will stop buying just so they can see how long it'll go for
the other side is that people will buy a few tickets then the last few hundred or so will be bought by a single person just so they can brag they bought the 3000th ticket
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Saul Reaver
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.10.18 06:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Prodigal
Originally by: Dumb Jerk Does anyone know anything about BIG, its management, and the Triple Titan lottery? BIG is sketchy on details and doesn't seem prepared to admit the lottery has not been successful. While we all admittedly take a risk when we buy a ticket, you can't claim to be reliable and honest while also saying "sorry, we're keeping the ISK indefinitely." Well, you can. But you'd be a twisting reality a bit. Anyone know anything? Am I really that far off when I call it a SCAM? At what point would MD and the like consider it to be a total failure or scam?
BIG will do whats right regardless
They should be held in the highest regard if the question of TRUST comes up.
AFAIC - On the trust ladder we have:
Chribba BIG Ray McCormack Nashi Wenby . . . All others
And those on top could pretty much share the top rung.
The words BIG and SCAM just simply do not belong in the same sentence. And I do have my personal beefs with BIG, don't get me wrong, but they are trustworthy.
Cheers,
bunzo
In reply to this post the only lottery i trust is Chribba's. End of story.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.10.18 06:40:00 -
[23]
If you had done your research on other TS-run projects before buying tickets, you'd have run across BMBE, which would have helped you avoid a lot of grief.
Welp.
Originally by: Karanth Or, in other words, random people can't usurp rights from government because they are insane/bitter/vengeful/made of potato salad.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.18 06:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ji Sama knowing Torn, he havent changed the contract.
*sigh*
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.18 07:08:00 -
[25]
As an outsider, I still respect the BMBE guys to stick to what they are good at.
That is working the float on lotteries.
So. Wait till it sells. Or don't sign up.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.18 07:30:00 -
[26]
I wonder if I can petition to have DJ's name changed, it offends me
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Aurorae Andromedae
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Posted - 2009.10.18 09:40:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Aurorae Andromedae on 18/10/2009 09:44:52 1) TS or BIG do not have three titans 2) TS will not refund any ISK, not even with their outrageous admin fees (TS has stated that he will not refund, takes too much time) 3) TS is just trying to milk some more ISK right now
The so called lottery has been running since last summer, started early July IIRC.
EDIT: It started at 8th of June, since that they have sold 11.908 tickets so far.
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.10.18 10:18:00 -
[28]
I don't see what the problem is here. My understanding of the situation is that some producer(s) approached TS asking him to raffle off their products. They established and agreed on a lottery format. It's going a bit slower than some may like, that's certainly not TS's fault. As some have stated he's a stickler for the rules, and will stick to his word tighter than any equivalent metaphor, despite and in spite of all the criticism. However it's clear it's not his choice to change the format. He's indicated he has approached the producers in an effort to reach a compromise, and is waiting for the results of that discussion to emerge.
Should they wish not to change the format, and I don't see why they should, it is certainly not TS's responsibility to force them. He is merely the vehicle operating the lottery, he has no further duty than to ensure a safe platform for the drawing and delivery of prizes. If that happens tomorrow or a year from now, so be it.
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King Dave
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.10.18 10:24:00 -
[29]
OP your not doing your name any favours...
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Dario Wall
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Posted - 2009.10.18 10:37:00 -
[30]
I've not entered in the lottery, but Torn should have put something in place to ensure they have a way to release a prize to someone by a certain deadline if all the tickets are not sold. Running a lottery for that long with the ticket sales coming to a standstill and telling the participants that they are out of luck until all tickets sell is basically scamming them of their entrance fee. 30,000 tickets is a ridiculously high goal, especially considering the cost per ticket. Torn should have thought about all the possible outcomes, and taken in to account the possibility of not selling all the tickets. He's leaving ticket holders out there with nothing to show for it.
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