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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.10.23 15:29:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Sleipnir: 220s not being highest tier guns? Check. NAMED shield booster? Check. mandatory fitting mod just like NH? Check.
Also, large shield booster. :ha ha:
And we're not even bringing 720 arties in the discussion. Which we really should.
You know that people dont fit 425mm on ships because 220mm outperform them?
Ah you probably dont.
You know that an X-Large Booster is oversized for a BC?
Nah you didnt know that either.
I want to see you fitting a X-L Booster on a Nighthawk and Heavy Assaults...
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.23 15:43:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 23/10/2009 15:44:48
Originally by: fuxinos
You know that people dont fit 425mm on ships because 220mm outperform them?
Ah you probably dont.
"Minmatar high tier guns suck so let's ignore them."
Hm.
They are somewhat better at shooting same sized targets (eg. BCs/CS). Sure, they're not worth making sacrifices for, since the DPS gain is not very significant (but exists), the range addition is practically nonexistent, and the tracking might be a problem when engaging smaller or unusually fast targets (frigs and vagas really).
However, they are generally worth fitting if you don't have to sacrifice anything else to do so.
I do, you know, fly Minmatar.
Originally by: fuxinos
You know that an X-Large Booster is oversized for a BC?
Nah you didnt know that either.
You do now that with a large booster the sleipnir needs over two minutes to make up for the NH's extra HP? That should give you an insight to the suckage of the large booster.
It's not without reason that Sleipnirs so often fit the XL booster.
Originally by: fuxinos
I want to see you fitting a X-L Booster on a Nighthawk and Heavy Assaults...
I want to see you fitting a XL booster on a Sleipnir with 720s. Before you go on to say the ship "is obviously not meant to be fit with that", please consider your statement about the NH with XL booster and HAMs.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.10.23 16:40:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 23/10/2009 15:44:48
Originally by: fuxinos
You know that people dont fit 425mm on ships because 220mm outperform them?
Ah you probably dont.
"Minmatar high tier guns suck so let's ignore them."
Hm.
They are somewhat better at shooting same sized targets (eg. BCs/CS). Sure, they're not worth making sacrifices for, since the DPS gain is not very significant (but exists), the range addition is practically nonexistent, and the tracking might be a problem when engaging smaller or unusually fast targets (frigs and vagas really).
However, they are generally worth fitting if you don't have to sacrifice anything else to do so.
I do, you know, fly Minmatar.
Originally by: fuxinos
You know that an X-Large Booster is oversized for a BC?
Nah you didnt know that either.
You do now that with a large booster the sleipnir needs over two minutes to make up for the NH's extra HP? That should give you an insight to the suckage of the large booster.
It's not without reason that Sleipnirs so often fit the XL booster.
Originally by: fuxinos
I want to see you fitting a X-L Booster on a Nighthawk and Heavy Assaults...
I want to see you fitting a XL booster on a Sleipnir with 720s. Before you go on to say the ship "is obviously not meant to be fit with that", please consider your statement about the NH with XL booster and HAMs.
I dont care if you think 425mms are worth it, its a simple fact that 220mm are better due to higher tracking.
Secondly, a Sleip can fit an XL with Autos but not with Arties.
A NH cant fit an XL with HAM nor with HM.
You see the diffrence?
That asaide, I want to see your NH-HAM fitting that has so much shield, that a Sleipnir needs 2 Minutes to rep it with a LB.
Must be a fail one for sure.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.10.23 17:35:00 -
[184]
Originally by: fuxinos That asaide, I want to see your NH-HAM fitting that has so much shield, that a Sleipnir needs 2 Minutes to rep it with a LB.
Must be a fail one for sure.
[Nighthawk, PVP - HAM] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Nosferatu II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
88K EHP
[Nighthawk, PVP - HML] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Small Nosferatu II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
91K EHP
[Sleipnir, Lowsec] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I
Hammerhead II x4
38K EHP + 315 DPS Tanked
88K EHP - 38K EHP = 50K EHP 50K EHP / 315 DPS tanked = 159 seconds
Well that sucks, so let's overheat the LSB and invuln. But we'll have to overheat the invulns on the NH too.
100K EHP - 40K EHP = 60K EHP 60K EHP / 433 DPS = 140 seconds
Which is to say: LSB tanks suck.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.23 17:36:00 -
[185]
I have no idea what the **** is going on in this thread anymore, except to say that I'd like to see minmatar BS shield tank and shield tanking BS should get 7 mids instead of 6! :D
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.23 20:36:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 23/10/2009 20:36:37
Originally by: Ulstan I have no idea what the **** is going on in this thread anymore,
We have gone off on a tangent to nowhere.
Originally by: Ulstan
except to say that I'd like to see minmatar BS shield tank and shield tanking BS should get 7 mids instead of 6! :D
One Maelstrom is enough (which is a fine* ship as is, and 7 mids would only make sense with more CPU; even now it generally requires a co-pro or a bit of cheap faction). At least large ACs do OK on it because of 8 turret slots and 3 gyros. Weakness is, ofc, no neut.
Although we're really derailing things to the extremes here ;)
*I hate its agility and speed. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.23 21:09:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Ulstan Good point. Both the sleipnir and nighthawk are 5 mid, 5 low, field command ships that shield tank. Their mids and lows would look almost identical.
And yet, the sleipnir has one thousand more powergrid than the night hawk. This is utterly absurd and beyond all explanation.
I'm thinking my initial estimate of how much PG the nighthawk was 'short' by was far too low. The nighthawk and sleipnir could be expected to have basically the same fit. I wonder if we have a thread about this in the assembly hall.
This.. sorta...
Actually. No.
A NH should not active tank, I am now convinced of that. At least no with a XLSB. But it does need 100-200 more PG.
It's a bit stupid now with the PG it has.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.10.23 21:28:00 -
[188]
You can fit a nano sliepnir with no fitting mods. 2x nanofibers, X-large bestnamed/faction shield booster. 2 Klicks in a command ship is pretty satisfying(rapid deployment). And at that speed you have a chance at mitigating some enemy dps which works well with the booster. Mostly 'mitigate' means stay away from some of the shorter range damage dealers.
Active tanks are still frustrating to work with. But the sliepnir is one ship that can make them look decent.
The nighthawk needs a minor boost so that it can fit HMLs+Gangmod+MWD+1xLSE with a little bit of fitting left over. It does not need more than that.
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Ganandorf
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Posted - 2009.10.24 23:57:00 -
[189]
as for lovely pg comparison, the loki (which is in fact a cruiser) can fit mwd + injector + xl booster + 6 guns + med nos without fitting mods
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Adacia Calla
Minmatar 1st Steps Academy Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.25 00:05:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Ganandorf as for lovely pg comparison, the loki (which is in fact a cruiser) can fit mwd + injector + xl booster + 6 guns + med nos without fitting mods
It also costs a billion isk, so it better be able to.
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2009.10.25 00:06:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Adacia Calla
Originally by: Ganandorf as for lovely pg comparison, the loki (which is in fact a cruiser) can fit mwd + injector + xl booster + 6 guns + med nos without fitting mods
It also costs a billion isk, so it better be able to.
500mil rather?
Also it's still a cruiser
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.10.25 00:42:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Ganandorf as for lovely pg comparison, the loki (which is in fact a cruiser) can fit mwd + injector + xl booster + 6 guns + med nos without fitting mods
The Tengu isn't exactly lacking grid itself, you know.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.25 02:10:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
The nighthawk needs a minor boost so that it can fit HMLs+Gangmod+MWD+1xLSE with a little bit of fitting left over. It does not need more than that.
Yes, I'm inclined to agree with this. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.10.25 02:21:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/10/2009 02:21:20
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
The nighthawk needs a minor boost so that it can fit HMLs+Gangmod+MWD+1xLSE with a little bit of fitting left over. It does not need more than that.
Yes, I'm inclined to agree with this.
So the fit is roughly:
[Nighthawk, PVP - HML Nighthawk (Dream)] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Gravimetric Backup Array II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
That comes in with 1048.75 PG with AWU5. NH currently has 887.5 PG with Eng 5.
1048.75 - 887.5 = 161.25 effective grid (161.25 / 1.25 = 129 real grid). I'm inclined to say that the NH definitely doesn't need more than 135-140 grid.
That would enable this to fit (3% PG implant): [Nighthawk, PVP - HAM Nighthawk (Dream)] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
Anyway. Just food for thought.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
PhoenixBomb
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Posted - 2009.10.25 15:44:00 -
[195]
Up for great justice.
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