Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 23:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Destroyers are ships that are specialized for one thing. Killing frigates. With the buffs made to various frigate hulls, I fear that destroyers are being shafted into a lower tier position in the food chain once again.
Destroyers should be able to destroy all type of frigates with no trouble. Destroyers are vulnerable to every ship bigger than it, so I believe it is fair that destroyers should be a serious threat to all frigates.
Assault Frigates should be easy to kill with destroyers, no frigate should be able to surpass a destroyer in a face to face 1 vs 1 fight.
-All the destroyers except the Thrasher has severe fitting issues, they are unable to fit their strongest short range guns without having a shortage of fitting to fill rest of the slots for anything else. Destroyers are anything but noob friendly due to the extremely tight fitting that even max skilled pilots have a hard time at.
If you have trouble fitting short range guns, wait until you try fitting long range guns without a fitting mod, it becomes a nightmare.
All the destroyers(except maybe the thrasher) need more cpu and powergrid to be more viable ships.
-I think destroyers could use another slot in order to make them more viable anti-frigate ships.
Coercer: +1 midslot (8/2/4) Catalyst: +1 midslot (8/3/3) Cormorant: +1 lowslot (8/4/2) Thrasher: +1 lowslot (8/3/3)
-Destroyers should receive a damage bonus when attacking frigate size vessels. When going against frigates and drone all the weapons will receive a 100% bonus. This will ensure that destroyers demolish frigates without making them overpowered against other class ships.
With this destroyers will remain glass cannons against larger ships but will absolutely destroy smaller class ships. |
Orlacc
174
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 23:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Destroyers were just buffed recently. |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.10 23:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Destroyers were just buffed recently.
Yes they did get buffed in crucible, but with the more recent buffs to t1 frigs and Assault Ships, they will need to be buffed again. |
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad Chained Reactions
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 00:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wait they got buffed? I honestly dont remember what was it lol |
Alara IonStorm
2399
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 00:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote: All the destroyers(except maybe the thrasher) need more cpu and powergrid to be more viable ships.
-I think destroyers could use another slot in order to make them more viable anti-frigate ships.
Coercer: +1 midslot (8/2/4) Catalyst: +1 midslot (8/3/3) Cormorant: +1 lowslot (8/4/2) Thrasher: +1 lowslot (8/3/3)
Yes. I have been in favor of that exact slot buff for a long time and fitting buffs to non Thrashers not regarding new slots. Great idea especially with the line up of Tier 3 Frigates and the upcoming buffs to the rest of the class.
Parsee789 wrote: -Destroyers should receive a damage bonus when attacking frigate size vessels. When going against frigates and drone all the weapons will receive a 100% bonus. This will ensure that destroyers demolish frigates without making them overpowered against other class ships.
No. DPS is not a problem being higher then any Frigate and their tanks are stronger then T1 Frigates especially with an extra slot.
Assault Frigates should fight on par with Destroyers for sure and do it with all the advantages of a Frigate. They are the T2 Heavy Hitters and at the very least should be equal to Destroyers with their Frigate advantages intact.
CCP needs to release a T2 Destroyer to target Assault Frigates, an Assault Destroyer and let the T1 Dessies stick to beating T1's, Ceptors and Bombers. |
GreenSeed
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 00:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
What are you talking about? Buff to dessies? Again?
dessies can already demolish frigates... i agree that they need looking at, but not a buff. specially the catalyst since they can kill stuff WAY above their weight class and are SO good thereGÇÖs no point on flying any other dessie.
i hope you are not thinking "i canGÇÖt fit point/tank on my dessie, so i canGÇÖt go kill frigs solo" because if you do you are missing the whole point of the destroyer. ItGÇÖs a specialized gang killer and thats all it is, the point, tackle, neut, ewar is supposed to come from other specialized ships on the gang.
Think of it as a ship having the cost/efficiency of a t1, with the specialization of a t2.
And itGÇÖs definitely NOT a 1v1 ship. Hell, if it were why would anyone ever fly a frigate? ItGÇÖs a small gang throwaway ship, glass cannon at its finest.
|
Alara IonStorm
2399
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 00:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
GreenSeed wrote:What are you talking about? Buff to dessies? Again?
dessies can already demolish frigates... i agree that they need looking at, but not a buff. specially the catalyst since they can kill stuff WAY above their weight class and are SO good thereGÇÖs no point on flying any other dessie.
i hope you are not thinking "i canGÇÖt fit point/tank on my dessie, so i canGÇÖt go kill frigs solo" because if you do you are missing the whole point of the destroyer. ItGÇÖs a specialized gang killer and thats all it is, the point, tackle, neut, ewar is supposed to come from other specialized ships on the gang.
Think of it as a ship having the cost/efficiency of a t1, with the specialization of a t2.
And itGÇÖs definitely NOT a 1v1 ship. Hell, if it were why would anyone ever fly a frigate? ItGÇÖs a small gang throwaway ship, glass cannon at its finest.
The buffs the op want tend to be towards utility which I agree is a good this. Web for the Caty, a second low for the Cormie, Point for the Coercer.
Destoryers are not gang ships they are to Frigates as Balltlecruisers are to Cruisers. With the new Frigate buff looking into utility is not a bad thing as well as fitting. The biggest obstacle to not choosing a Thrasher is utility which is why Thrashers are 5 to 1 vs every other Dessie class.
That 100% Damg to Frigates thing is rubbish but a bit more targeted fitting and a bit more utility might just be what the doctor ordered to help them without overpowering them against Assault Ships and Cruisers while dethroning the Thrasher. |
Marcus Ichiro
Kif Korp
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 00:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:Destroyers should be able to destroy all type of frigates with no trouble.
But they do. The whole point of them having limited meds/lows is to keep them in their roles as frigate melters.
They don't need utility, all you need on a destroyer is a full rack of guns, damage mods and a prop mod. |
Alara IonStorm
2399
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 01:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Marcus Ichiro wrote: But they do. The whole point of them having limited meds/lows is to keep them in their roles as frigate melters.
They don't need utility, all you need on a destroyer is a full rack of guns, damage mods and a prop mod.
Utility is however not a bad thing.
Both in the close and long range it help boost what is already good about the ship without improving capability against larger vessels. The idea that they are a gang ship is not wrong but solo capability needs to be considered. Gang support shouldn't limit a ship but enhance it and allow utility to move towards other area's such as range, scan res and so forth.
Know what Destroyer has utility, the Thrasher. No which ones are lacking, the rest. The extra slots provide so much more to the Caty, Coercer and Cormie then they do the Thrasher. It is a good buff in lu of the recent announced Frigate changes and future announced ones.
Right now in real combat it is Thrashers all the way down. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
365
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 01:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Thrasher is unique among the destroyers in that it gets a damage bonus. It in essence has 8.75 turrets compared to 8 for the Catalyst and Coercer and 7 for the Corm.
Make all the dessies 7 turrets + 1 Utility.
Catalyst - Optimal, tracking, and damage Coercer - Optimal, tracking, and damage Cormorant - Optimal, optimal, and damage
The fitting issues of the cat and coercer should go away with one less turret. The corm might need a little fitting help. Put a fork in it and done.
P.S.
Absolutely no to an Assault Destroyer. Horrible idea. It would obsolete so many ships. |
|
Alara IonStorm
2399
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 01:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote: Absolutely no to an Assault Destroyer. Horrible idea. It would obsolete so many ships.
Teh what ships wuld it obsolete.
Like Assault Frigates they would not have great speed. They could not take on T1 Cruisers effectively and would be vulnerable to larger ships.
I don't see any ship falling out of use because of Assault Destroyers.
|
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 02:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
I would like to see changes to Destroyers but not a "buff".
More mid slots for webs and a little better tank.
As for a nerf lower the DPS. It seems like the most popular role for the Destroyer is suicide ganking. Does anyone use it in PVP fleets for other than cheap DPS?
I'm not sure how this would affect the overall balance in the game. This is what the people at CCP have to do before they make changes. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
365
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 02:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Such a ship would put out 400-500 DPS, have 20k - 30k EHP, move like a cruiser, and have a much reduced signature radius. Throw in snakes or halo implants as well as off grid boosters.... you get the idea. |
Alara IonStorm
2399
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 02:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Such a ship would put out 400-500 DPS, have 20k - 30k EHP, move like a cruiser, and have a much reduced signature radius. Throw in snakes or halo implants as well as off grid boosters.... you get the idea. It wouldn't have too get that big a damage bonus. T2 doesn't mean more DPS always, they can give it 1 Damage bonus only and the rest to tracking, range, utility so on. Thrasher gets one currently. T2 also doesn't usually double your tank, 15-20k seems about right.
A standard Thorax gets 37k EHP and 500 DPS. Cruisers across the board are also due for buffs as well and those implants and boosts effect every ship. I don't see a 60-80mil fit out Destroyer eating into the newly buffed T1 Cruisers.
More competitive maybe against some fits but no massive advantage for the cost. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 02:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Such a ship would put out 400-500 DPS, have 20k - 30k EHP, move like a cruiser, and have a much reduced signature radius. Throw in snakes or halo implants as well as off grid boosters.... you get the idea.
Huh? I was talking about less DPS with a little more tank but nothing crazy. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
365
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 03:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
IIshira wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Such a ship would put out 400-500 DPS, have 20k - 30k EHP, move like a cruiser, and have a much reduced signature radius. Throw in snakes or halo implants as well as off grid boosters.... you get the idea. Huh? I was talking about less DPS with a little more tank but nothing crazy.
Alara and I are talking about Assault Destroyers. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 03:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Have you guys even seen the Sniper Cormorant? The thing can engage to almost 100km. In FW minor plexes, this ship is very deadly to go against. Sensor booster or damp in the mids make this thing Siiick.
Adding another mid just makes it that much better. I only vote for the Coercer to have +1 mid. Having 1 low is not nearly as crippling as having just 1 mid. -Rock is overpowered, Scissors is fine. |
Mira Lynne
State War Academy Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 05:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
IMO, destroyers actually need a nerf. Stop treating them as the cure-ass anti frigate ship and start treating them like a ship in between Frigates and Cruisers. Nerf the Sig Resolution/Explosion Radius and Tracking/Explosion Velocity slightly. Reduce Turrets, lose the role bonus, and shake the other bonuses up alittle. Corm and Coercer get Damage/Resists, Thrasher and Caty get Damage/Tracking. Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread |
Angsty Teenager
52
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 06:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
The only (and only) buffs that need to be applied to destroyers is buffing the corm and the catalysts base speeds up so that they go the same speed as the thrasher/coercer with the MWD.
Thrasher is ridculously good, so is the coercer, instead of whining for a buff ma |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
123
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 06:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Destroyers are 1-trick ponies, they destroy frigs. In lieu with that, those extra slots might be interesting but would result in them having the same mid+low slots that tier3 frigs enjoy. This added versatility might be too much so I'm not convinced yet. Fitting should be tight so it is impossible to but biggest tier guns and tank on at once. Yes thrasher, I'm looking at you. |
|
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 07:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Probably depends on what you are doing in EVE,
But I know Faction War is pakked with Dessies, where before it was Dramiels Daredevils and Hookbills so I guess the Buff wiorked like a charm there.
|
The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 08:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Destroyers are fine as they are. If we are talking in 'should's' then imo assault frigs should be able to have a fighting chance against them. And they do, just about. Destroyer's vulnerability keeps them balanced.
Now if you wanna talk about navy faction destroyers............! |
Maeltstome
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 08:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
The perform best with long range guns due to excellent tracking, range and alpah.
DPS isn't everything - popping half a frigates HP in 1 volley.. that's what they do best. |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 09:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
I personally think Assault Frigates should die in a fire when going against a well fitted dps destroyer. Just because AF are more expensive should not mean they should be able to easily destroy a ship that's meant to kill frigates.
Destroyers should be able to melt Assault Frigates before AF melt them. |
Bouh Revetoile
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 09:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote: Destroyers should be able to melt Assault Frigates before AF melt them.
Destroyers have more firepower, about the same ehp, and a little less mobility for half or third the cost. In fact, the real question is how many more you want... |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 09:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Parsee789 wrote:I personally think Assault Frigates should die in a fire when going against a well fitted dps destroyer. Just because AF are more expensive should not mean they should be able to easily destroy a ship that's meant to kill frigates.
Destroyers should be able to melt Assault Frigates before AF melt them.
That would be nice. The last buffs on Destroyers was focused on DPS. That just made it a better gank ship. Yes DPS also helps kill frigates but unlike a stationery Hulk a frigate will be moving very fast. If you can't hit it all that DPS does nothing.
To make the destroyer a better "anti frigate" ship it has to be better at tracking and slowing down frigates. This is why I said mid slots for webs. Maybe if the mid slots could be used for other than webs to make it OP a better tracking bonus could be added. Other than killing frigates I'm not sure how faster tracking could be used in an unintended way.
On the other hand maybe CCP doesn't want to make the destroyer a Frigate melter. This might discourage people from flying frigates. Everything is a complicated balancing act. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 11:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote: Absolutely no to an Assault Destroyer. Horrible idea. It would obsolete so many ships.
Teh what ships wuld it obsolete. Like Assault Frigates they would not have great speed. They could not take on T1 Cruisers effectively and would be vulnerable to larger ships. I don't see any ship falling out of use because of Assault Destroyers.
I'd actually agree with previous post to yours just because you know it's quite easy to push 700dps out of a catalyst, a T2 version would just be some sort of "I win" button against everything with a little bit of effort and skill.
Actual Catalyst could use of some more PG and med slot, maybe change 8 guns to 7 and give it an utility slot (NOS), some agility wouldn't be bad too. However I still think T1 destroyers shouldn't be T2 frigates main predator, they have already the T2 version (Interdictors) that can fit a very decent dps (however lacking of EHP buffer)
Bring all T2 destroyers version to the same level of Sabre would already be a huge buff to all T2 destroyers without making T2 frigates too fragile, we need them on the field but they should not make frigates T1 or T2 undesirable
Just a point of view brb |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
266
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 15:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think the destroyers are really well balanced right now. Frigates with TDs will do well against them in solo situations, but destroyers rule the day as numbers increase.
They are fairly well-balanced as well. Last buff increased both dps and EHP, btw. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
603
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 16:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Marcus Ichiro wrote: But they do. The whole point of them having limited meds/lows is to keep them in their roles as frigate melters.
They don't need utility, all you need on a destroyer is a full rack of guns, damage mods and a prop mod.
Utility is however not a bad thing. Both in the close and long range it help boost what is already good about the ship without improving capability against larger vessels. The idea that they are a gang ship is not wrong but solo capability needs to be considered. Gang support shouldn't limit a ship but enhance it and allow utility to move towards other area's such as range, scan res and so forth. Know what Destroyer has utility, the Thrasher. No which ones are lacking, the rest. The extra slots provide so much more to the Caty, Coercer and Cormie then they do the Thrasher. It is a good buff in lu of the recent announced Frigate changes and future announced ones. Right now in real combat it is Thrashers all the way down.
Too much utility IS a bad thing. It allows ships to impinge on the roles of other ships.
Destroyers role is supposed to be bringing small-weapon DPS on the field, not tackling. Don't boost the rest of the Destroyers to bring it more in line with the Thrasher, one of the current ships in dire need of a nerf (like perhaps cutting some more EHP as the price for it's versatility) Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Kalli Brixzat
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.11 17:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like the current Destroyer hulls as they currently are. They excel at 2, key roles:
1. Anti-frigate Gunboats also capable of suicide-ganks in swarms. 2. All-purpose utility boats that make excellent ghetto-Noctis salvagers.
I think with these 2 roles, I'll keep a number of Destroyers in my bay for years to come. What I would really like to see is simply more destroyer hulls to chose from. Perhaps one with fewer weapon hardpoints in exchange for more speed. A missile-platform T1 destroyer would also be nice. Maybe even one specifically purposed for salvaging ops.
Otherwise, they don't need a buff...they just need more hulls to chose from. The fact that there is 1 destroyer per race makes them pass-over ships. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |