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Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:17:00 -
[1]
I see certain people come in the forums and pose as fitting experts. myself included. They are proposing fits and game content alterations base on their perceived balance, which is calculated based on all skills @ lvl 5 and then they add on top implants and boosters and blah, blah, blah... I try to propose fits based on 0.0 fighting experience and without the use of any implants or boosters. Most combat pilots operating in 0.0 fly empty clones, cause they know that when you undock, you write off ship and pod. If you want to balance a ship, do it with an empty clone.
It is quite acceptable to consider using an all lvl 5 character as a baseline, but in order to estimate a ships potential, as far as average user is concerned, it is ridiculous to include implants and boosters and whatnot since it produces false responses.
Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot.
So, guys (you know who you are) when comparing ships, stop saying stupid things like "use implant A or B cause that is the only way to fit this."
Otherwise I will keep trolling you, Liang.
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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:21:00 -
[2]
I like this guy.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:22:00 -
[3]
So wait are you still trolling or still being dumb?
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Samaritan Azuma
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:26:00 -
[4]
its even better when they think that their fittings are the only way to go, and any who has a different idea is an idiot.
" if you arent using (inset mod) on (insert ship) you fail!"
these ppl need a beer and a sexual encounter
If it weren't for downtime, I wouldn't make stupid posts. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Samaritan Azuma
these ppl need a beer and a sexual encounter
Sign me up. Everyone needs that!
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fivetide humidyear
Gallente Fool Mental Junket
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot
Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:51:00 -
[7]
Originally by: fivetide humidyear
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot
Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.
Just use 8x 'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Lasers for your Abbadon. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: fivetide humidyear
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot
Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.
[Abaddon, New Setup 1]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2009.10.21 14:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: fivetide humidyear
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot
Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.
[Abaddon, New Setup 1]
setup needs more cowbell.
If you cant see that you fail.
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xxxak
Caldari No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:10:00 -
[10]
To OP: Yes and No.
Sometimes implants or a level V skill makes sense, because it can mean 20% more DPS or capstability or something.
So.. sometimes it is the BEST fit. I think most people know they cant always use the best fit, and I hope they know how to step down from it gracefully.
But I agree with you that overpimped fits as a baseline are pretty silly.
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youveBeenBookmarked
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Samaritan Azuma its even better when they think that their fittings are the only way to go, and any who has a different idea is an idiot.
" if you arent using (inset mod) on (insert ship) you fail!"
these ppl need a beer and a sexual encounter
Incorrect.
These people need to provide beer to their possible sexual partner. :D
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Eli Porter
Amarr Altruism.
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:34:00 -
[12]
All level V became a standard for fitting a long time ago. Aruging about it is rather pointless, except for some rare cases(Who the hell trains Shield Upgrades V).
As for implants, I don't see people using it as a benchmark for ship fittings, except for the 1% and 3% PG and CPU implants, which IMO is viable as many people(Yes, even in 0.0) rely on them to fit their ships, and they aren't that costly.
As for boosters, many pilots flying expensive ships carry Exiles and Blue Pills to help their tank in dire situations, but the other boosters are rarely used and should not be mentioned.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: youveBeenBookmarked
Incorrect.
These people need to provide beer to their possible sexual partner.
Dude, your...character. You're like a space age David Bowie.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp Most combat pilots operating in 0.0 fly empty clones, cause they know that when you undock, you write off ship and pod. If you want to balance a ship, do it with an empty clone.
The least expensive hull flown in 0.0 is the interceptor (some BS are actually less expensive taking insurance in account), surely you can add 10% of the hull price in implants given the astounding performance gain you get from a few 3% hardwires... -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Eli Porter All level V became a standard for fitting a long time ago. Aruging about it is rather pointless, except for some rare cases(Who the hell trains Shield Upgrades V).
I did...
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Gneeznow
Minmatar Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:42:00 -
[16]
OP's right I barely read the ships and modules forum anymore because of prolific know-it-alls like liang and astrophobic who write massive walls of tl;dr text that just make me facepalm about how far people take this videogame
actually, isnt it about time liang ragequits loudly again to the tune of about 500 posts about how fed up he is with eve and how its going
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Susy Assulu
Caldari Atomic Mexicans
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:44:00 -
[17]
Its perfectly all right to assume the use of boosters, especially on active tanked battleships since the Strong Exile booster costs about 8mil
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:49:00 -
[18]
Ignoring the fact that not all combat occurs in 0.0 and that implants can therefore be quite common, and ignoring your idea that combat boosters are somehow restricted from 0.0 (wtf?)...
... if you don't want to see people in the Ships and Modules forum debating/discussing the best way to fit Ships and what Modules to put on them, maybe you should stop reading this section of the boards.
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:53:00 -
[19]
Hmmm, Ships and Modules. Exactly. So, can we discuss balance based only on these?
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Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.21 15:59:00 -
[20]
I consider myself as close to an "Expert" as one can be in a particular ship class, that class being the Burst.
In my opinion it needs a boost.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.10.21 16:00:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 21/10/2009 16:04:32
Originally by: Tagami Wasp Hmmm, Ships and Modules. Exactly. So, can we discuss balance based only on these?
There isn't another forum section for implants. I consider implants and Boosters to be modules that go in the head instead of on the ship.
Most people, when posting a fit, will either say that it requires no implants, list what implants are required, and/or include reasonable assumptions about what might be used. A Rifter fit rarely includes implant suggestions; a trimarked Abaddon with navy EANMs or whatever might include an EHP figure with and without slaves since it's reasonable that the implants are used.
The point of posting a fit for discussion is to consider what the ship can do in its environment and discarding implants and boosters "just because" is pretty dumb if you ask me.
Oh, and by the way - some of us that DO pvp out on 0.0 don't use empty clones. +3 implants are cheap and once you're using those you might as well throw in some cheap hardwirings.
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MadAtTheWorld
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Posted - 2009.10.21 16:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Terianna Eri Ignoring the fact that not all combat occurs in 0.0 and that implants can therefore be quite common, and ignoring your idea that combat boosters are somehow restricted from 0.0 (wtf?)...
... if you don't want to see people in the Ships and Modules forum debating/discussing the best way to fit Ships and what Modules to put on them, maybe you should stop reading this section of the boards.
this, pretty much.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.10.21 16:17:00 -
[23]
- Imo using "all l5s" is ok. Its easier to compare performance of various ships. - Using implants is ok too, even in 0.0, for example +3% cpu/pg is great and cheap. - And most of shiny ships /with highend implants/ posted are for mission running, so why not use them.
Btw alot of ppl posting "fits" actually want to help others /well, some have no clue they are wrong with their fits /, but yes, some are just trolls.
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Mr Ignitious
R.E.C.O.N. Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.10.21 16:21:00 -
[24]
By this time I largely have all level 5 skills for the ships I can fly (I still use my own skill set in eft when fitting thing for myself of course). You're trying to assume everyone has the same skills as you, but this is certainly not the case. Shield upgrades 5 is an extremely useful skill for any shield tanking pilot.
Beyond that - no, not many people use pirate implants in 0.0 but i know many people fly with +3's or +4's, I'm usually using +4's myself. Low sec this changes quite a bit though, it shouldn't be to surprising to find a LG slaved pilot in low sec, with no bubbles it reduces the risk of getting podded drastically.
Your argument about boosters in every fit to be competitive is stupid. I RARELY see ANYONE bring them up in ANY ship fitting thread. You may see them mentioned with the stat increase they could give, but noone is going to rage that you aren't using boosters.
Furthermore there are best fits in eve if the thread is about a specific ship fulfilling a specific role. Frequently people will ask questions about how to fit their ship for... tackling, mission running, probing, or some other particular task. If someone asks "I want a good fit for my hyperion"... that will get them nowhere, but if they ask "I want a good fit for my hyperion, I intend to use it for running missions for the gallente navy" then you can more than likely find a fit that out performs all others for that one task.
And as above mentioned, there are a lot more forms of pvp out there than just the meandering through 0.0.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.10.21 16:34:00 -
[25]
I have always been a huge fan of 3% hardwirings, and I think anyone not using them is crazy. It's like free skillpoints (even in 0.0 - which I have flown in frequently and still used implants). Tbh it looks like you're just mad because you posted an utterly ******ed suggestion and it got shot down by a "fitting expert". u mad?
If you would prefer, I can always give ehp/tank/dps for "my skills" - but as a general rule it's within 1% of max skills and usually a bit higher because I believe in hardwirings. As for pirate sets... Yeah they are expensive and I've only ever owned one. Thinking about buying a Virtue set though. :)
BTW, Gneez: <3 you make me laugh. I virtually never see you post anything I strongly disagree with - so I'm really curious what you think I'm so wrong about. I'm thinking that it has to be my complaint about Lasers vs Everything else. But, I can understand why people get all defensive there.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
NoNah
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Posted - 2009.10.21 16:41:00 -
[26]
Agreed.
Personally I think there should be cap so people can't become so called forum elite. Say... max 1 post every 5 minutes. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 743752
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.21 16:54:00 -
[27]
3% implants are what 20mil each? and for a few fits (hamdrake) they mean the difference between fitting and fitting mod.
the only places I have seen more expensive implants/boosters fit are in pve setups, faction ship setups, and on active tanks.
in pve well, you better not lose them, and +10% dps, and 3 other 5% effects for around 500mil are well worth it.
for faction ships you spent at least 500m on the hull, and likely at least that much on the mods, to add some crystals to a nightmare, or slaves to a navy mega adds a lot to the setup,
as for boosters adding blue pill on top of crystals isn't even enough tank in many situations. also the hyperion/brutix/myrm fits that are active are interesting at best, and somewhat usable in small gangs, adding exile can help in some situations, also see blue pill maelstrom.
although I often come at fitting threads with the lowsec pirate in mind.
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I have always been a huge fan of 3% hardwirings, and I think anyone not using them is crazy. It's like free skillpoints (even in 0.0 - which I have flown in frequently and still used implants). Tbh it looks like you're just mad because you posted an utterly ******ed suggestion and it got shot down by a "fitting expert". u mad?
If you would prefer, I can always give ehp/tank/dps for "my skills" - but as a general rule it's within 1% of max skills and usually a bit higher because I believe in hardwirings. As for pirate sets... Yeah they are expensive and I've only ever owned one. Thinking about buying a Virtue set though. :)
BTW, Gneez: <3 you make me laugh. I virtually never see you post anything I strongly disagree with - so I'm really curious what you think I'm so wrong about. I'm thinking that it has to be my complaint about Lasers vs Everything else. But, I can understand why people get all defensive there.
-Liang
Goon much? peeved huh?
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp Goon much? peeved huh?
Are you even trying?
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Goon much? peeved huh?
I think that was sort of the opposite of a peeved response... even had a little heart symbol and everything.
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