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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.10.21 17:58:00 -
[1]
If theyre going to be completely useless and corrupt we should at least admit it. So i propose changing the job description to something along the lines of "gets free vacation and given information early to be used for personal gain."
Thats a bit long for a title- maybe we should just rename them "useless". Has even one thing come out of that committee thats useful to anyone but them?
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Kuilespawn III
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Posted - 2009.10.21 18:25:00 -
[2]
the CSM is a glorified FREE TRIP TO ICELAND club whos only purpose is to spend beer tokens at fanfest. ccp probably still pays for the CSM just to troll people in the assembly hall with.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.10.21 18:34:00 -
[3]
And to clarify- im not saying that "nothing" comes out of the csm- i am saying that what comes out can (or prolly would) come out from ccp anyway. They have a ton of suggestions made in other areas of the forum- wouldnt take long to figure out what is wanted/needed in the way of changes.
But i support my own idea cause csm is essentially useless and can (and should) be replaced by a ccp staff committee of their own.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.10.22 02:19:00 -
[4]
For better than five years, players screamed incessantly for a skill queue, and CCP said we weren't going to get one because swapping skills "makes us play more often". CSM gets elected, makes an issue out of it, we get a queue in the next expansion. Even if they never did anything else ever again, they earned themselves a hundred free trips to Iceland with that one.
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Dirty Wizard
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Posted - 2009.10.22 02:54:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto For better than five years, players screamed incessantly for a skill queue, and CCP said we weren't going to get one because swapping skills "makes us play more often". CSM gets elected, makes an issue out of it, we get a queue in the next expansion. Even if they never did anything else ever again, they earned themselves a hundred free trips to Iceland with that one.
The real question is did the skill queue come about because the CSMs pushed it? Or was it already on it's way and the CSMs simply took credit for it?
Sort of a chicken and the egg question.
Supported. __________________________________ Want to help fix the CSM process? Show your support here. |
Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.22 03:02:00 -
[6]
Leave it to somebody who doesn't know about the CSM to trash the CSM. I went through a term, and it wasn't a picnic. I spent between 8 and 15 hours a week just on CSM stuff, not including playing the game itself. In exchange for six months of this, I did get flown to CCP HQ and fanfest, but it was for meetings and representation of the devs/players.
I'll admit that some members, even in my own term, acted in ways that I find repulsive and warranting a ban. However, the CSM as a whole is a devoted group of players who earnestly want to make the game better. Arguing without knowledge is the height of arrogancy.
If you can't take off your black glasses, there's nothing more that can be said about this thread other than 'troll'.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.10.22 04:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dirty Wizard The real question is did the skill queue come about because the CSMs pushed it? Or was it already on it's way and the CSMs simply took credit for it?
Sort of a chicken and the egg question.
For better than five years, CCP was a broken record with the same stupid explanation, and they certainly sounded like they believed it. The CSM as an actual elected body with several thousand votes behind them, got listened to in a way that a string of random forum whiners simply never would be. You can ignore Eve General or F+I threads far more easily than you can ignore an issue where the carebears, alliance leaders, pirates, industrialists, and general crazy folk all agree unanimously. The latter seems to have been enough to make CCP realize that we meant it, and it wasn't just a few disaffected folks.
Of course, this thread is at least 80% trolling anyways, so I don't expect I'll convince you. But hopefully someone else reading this thread will take note.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2009.10.22 06:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto CSM gets elected, makes an issue out of it, we get a queue in the next expansion. Even if they never did anything else ever again, they earned themselves a hundred free trips to Iceland with that one.
The problem is that the CSM isn't an entity itself. As always, it's the people who actually take action, not the group designation. There's no use in worshipping a group for what it did, when the original members who took action aren't even in it anymore. |
Argonis Valentio
Senex Legio
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Dirty Wizard The real question is did the skill queue come about because the CSMs pushed it? Or was it already on it's way and the CSMs simply took credit for it?
Sort of a chicken and the egg question.
For better than five years, CCP was a broken record with the same stupid explanation, and they certainly sounded like they believed it. The CSM as an actual elected body with several thousand votes behind them, got listened to in a way that a string of random forum whiners simply never would be. You can ignore Eve General or F+I threads far more easily than you can ignore an issue where the carebears, alliance leaders, pirates, industrialists, and general crazy folk all agree unanimously. The latter seems to have been enough to make CCP realize that we meant it, and it wasn't just a few disaffected folks.
Of course, this thread is at least 80% trolling anyways, so I don't expect I'll convince you. But hopefully someone else reading this thread will take note.
One flaw in your argument.
Set up a forum, provide a "support this topic" button. Provide protocol to recognise items with 1000 or more support, CCP has a viable solution, cost free and argument free.
You can worship CSM all you want but at the end of each day it is but a face. It's CCP's idea of how to get the players involved, to make a fantasy landscape where they can say the players are in control but truthfully aren't.
Why do this?
It looks good. It brings in new players, despite that they don't know about it. It strengthens the community. Take your pick, there are probably a few hundred theories supporting community based voting systems strengthening the community, that's all it is.
At the end of each day, each subscription period, do you think to yourself, "OMG this game blows, if it had a skill queue I'd keep playing"? I'll answer for you, NO. The games development has continued with remarkable progress and not through players ideas. The game keeps expanding and attracting further players.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:59:00 -
[10]
OP is a crying little babby
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto CSM gets elected, makes an issue out of it, we get a queue in the next expansion. Even if they never did anything else ever again, they earned themselves a hundred free trips to Iceland with that one.
The problem is that the CSM isn't an entity itself. As always, it's the people who actually take action, not the group designation. There's no use in worshipping a group for what it did, when the original members who took action aren't even in it anymore.
This is correct, though you only took the logic halfway. By the same reasoning that it's inapropriate to "worship" a group for what it did because the members change, it's also inapropriate to condem the group for the same reason. The logic can't work only one way.
You are correct that it's the individual CSMs that make a difference. Each will leave their own mark on the group and the process.
Some leave their mark as actual civil servants - doing thier best to help the game and the players. Some are more like pop stars or teenagers with spray-paint cans - the only mark they care about is their name in lights or putting thier gang-sign on the wall. Some leave a mark like a stray dog on a random fence post. As long as they stink up the place on the way out they are happy.
If we, the "public", want percieved problems with the CSM solved we need to vote in candidates that think the same. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:33:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 22/10/2009 14:34:49
Originally by: Scatim Helicon OP is a crying little babby
Thats what you got from my post? Learn to read you ignorant fool. Also- learn to spell. Learn to spellcheck
Again- my point was- CSM does so little, and is so corruptible, that ccp can do the job better.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:59:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Traidor Disloyal on 22/10/2009 14:58:51
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto CSM gets elected, makes an issue out of it, we get a queue in the next expansion. Even if they never did anything else ever again, they earned themselves a hundred free trips to Iceland with that one.
No, no they did not.
I vote for "The Clown Commission" for a name change. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:43:00 -
[14]
Down with the corrupt CSM!
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Elektrea
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.22 22:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon OP is a crying little babby
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Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.22 22:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Elektrea
Originally by: Scatim Helicon OP is a crying little babby
- uncensored eve discussion and battle reports www.BattleDB.com
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.10.23 07:14:00 -
[17]
hey way to line up like sheep. But shouldnt you be off somewhere servicing your masters?
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.23 19:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/10/2009 19:26:30
Originally by: Future Mutant But shouldnt you be off somewhere servicing your masters?
Why would we when were getting serviced right here?
I mean this is grade A whine without purpose here.
Your argument is flawed on so many levels, I have to wonder what the few thumbs up you got smoked this morning (and where i can lay my hands on some).
Flaw 1:
Fanfest had some video footage of the things that the CSM has brought before them, and in said graph, were marked out the things that were implemented, denied, and the things in development. To say they do NOTHING is a bit of a stretch, to say they do much is also laughable. They are attempting to strike a balance, a give players a voice (the things they raise come from us).
Flaw 2:
If you find it utterly corrupt, feel free to toss your name in the voting booth and create change from the INSIDE.
I know, baffling concept that you should actually do something yourself to change something you don't like, but the shock will pass, and your life will continue.
In the end, ONE guy cheated, and ONE girl is adopting a real life politics by attempting to form a lobbying group (something I find both fascinating and a bit funny). The first got impeached so to speak, the second is well within the rights of just about every elected official in the history of elected officials.
If you don't like it, its on YOUR shoulders to do something about it, not ***** and moan in some barely passable thread where you insult/pick apart the spelling () of those who don't share your views.
Perhaps you don't hail from a country with a democratically elected government, so your not used to seeing the system at work, a flaw that I can understand, but without even TRYING to do something yourself, your efforts are laughable at best.
tl;dr- You can change the system if you get off your whiney lazy ass and DO something for once in your life.
EDIT: upon reflection, your sig on this very forum makes the hypocritical nature of your post so much more evident.
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Ioptic
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Posted - 2009.10.24 06:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ioptic on 24/10/2009 06:41:36 I agree
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.10.24 06:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/10/2009 19:26:30
Originally by: Future Mutant But shouldnt you be off somewhere servicing your masters?
Why would we when were getting serviced right here?
I mean this is grade A whine without purpose here.
Your argument is flawed on so many levels, I have to wonder what the few thumbs up you got smoked this morning (and where i can lay my hands on some).
Most of your post reads like this- blah blah blah- talk about w/o purpose. If you disagree with me- state your reasons.
Flaw 1:
Originally by: Grath Telkin Fanfest had some video footage of the things that the CSM has brought before them, and in said graph, were marked out the things that were implemented, denied, and the things in development. To say they do NOTHING is a bit of a stretch, to say they do much is also laughable. They are attempting to strike a balance, a give players a voice (the things they raise come from us).
Once again i will state my meaning in full- csm does nothing that ccp could do themselves w/o the massive ammounts of corruption.
Originally by: Grath Telkin Flaw 2:
If you find it utterly corrupt, feel free to toss your name in the voting booth and create change from the INSIDE.
I know, baffling concept that you should actually do something yourself to change something you don't like, but the shock will pass, and your life will continue.
Seriously? you think one person in csm could change the system? What brand of stupid are you? There ARE NOW some very respectable, hardworking members of csm- their work will always be overshadowed by the scammers and thieves in csm. One bad apple spoils the bunch...
Originally by: Grath Telkin In the end, ONE guy cheated, and ONE girl is adopting a real life politics by attempting to form a lobbying group (something I find both fascinating and a bit funny). The first got impeached so to speak, the second is well within the rights of just about every elected official in the history of elected officials.
One guy cheated? No, one guy got caught- theres a difference. A few mins of thought would lead one to wonder how anyone even could be caught- it would be so easy to avoid. The fact that this person didnt take the minimal effort required suggests to me the depths that the abuse goes to.
Originally by: Grath Telkin If you don't like it, its on YOUR shoulders to do something about it, not ***** and moan in some barely passable thread where you insult/pick apart the spelling () of those who don't share your views.
Welcome to the internets- if you dont like it the doors double as exits.
Originally by: Grath Telkin Perhaps you don't hail from a country with a democratically elected government, so your not used to seeing the system at work, a flaw that I can understand, but without even TRYING to do something yourself, your efforts are laughable at best.
This is democracy? lol if you say so. Fine if this is democracy i want a way to recall csm members. The people demand it!
Originally by: Grath Telkin tl;dr- You can change the system if you get off your whiney lazy ass and DO something for once in your life.
Change wouldnt be enough for the csm- though the recall suggestion does interest me.
Originally by: Grath Telkin EDIT: upon reflection, your sig on this very forum makes the hypocritical nature of your post so much more evident.
I dont have a sig attached to this particular player. Perhaps your referring to my corp attachment Could this be another dig along the lines of "players in npc corps arent playing eve right"? No that cant be it- because its supposed to be a "democracy" and players should have a choice....blah, blah, blah sandbox and all that.
tl:dr at least this guy attempted to explain his reasoning to me- in his "i was hit with a baseball when i was 5yrs old" way.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.24 14:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grath Telkin garbage
Everything you said would make sense.... if it weren't for that fact that you and everyone else in PL... are trolling and spamming up the place.
Talk about contradictions and a half. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.24 23:13:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Future Mutant
I dont have a sig attached to this particular player
Originally by: Future Mutant Your stuff iz mine through actions
Funny, this is at the bottom of all your posts. Looks like a sig to me.
I find it ironic, simply because instead of actually doing something, your just *****ing.
Also, thanks for proving my point about insulting people who disagree with you, I'm sure it would go a long way in helping get a solid support base should you choose to run for office and DO something to create change.
And yes, when you hold an election like we do, cast ballads, and tally votes to see who wins, its a democratic election. Pretty bad that a guy who was "hit with a baseball when i was 5yrs old" can grasp that and you can't.
You want changes, get elected, and get things brought before CCP to help change what you think is a problem, but PLEASE for the love of god include as MANY of your conspiracy theories as humanly possible, especially about the greedy underhanded cheating that obviously must be common place in the CSM. God knows that catching a guy within days of his transgression hasn't swayed me either brother. DOWN WITH THE MAN.
Basically the Long and Short of it is you complaining that CCP has included the players when they should just be doing this themselves, THEN complaining about basic human nature. If you expect some pious self righteous person to be your CSM rep, then you either work hard at getting him elected or you run yourself, but telling other people how they should act just makes you look miserably sad.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.24 23:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Grath Telkin garbage
Everything you said would make sense.... if it weren't for that fact that you and everyone else in PL... are trolling and spamming up the place.
Talk about contradictions and a half.
So my alliance automatically makes my posts garbage?
So since I've never heard of your alliance can I just automatically assume that your posts are as irrelevant as your alliance? I mean, thats only fair right, judging the things someone says by the company they keep is as tired and old as most things you read on these forums, so suprised im not.
Also, last check, trolling, by ANYONE, ANYWHERE is not against any form of law, so I'm not sure what your issue with what my alliance affiliates post on the forums, I mean its a simple sollution:
DON'T BITE THE HOOK SO DAMN HARD.
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.10.25 00:33:00 -
[24]
garbage /post made in order to increase the ratio of supported/unsigned increase. ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.10.25 03:14:00 -
[25]
If you don't have the stones to stand as a candidate yourself, or you don't want to vote for candidates that you feel are good, then shut up. The Light in the Darkness
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.10.25 11:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Future Mutant
I dont have a sig attached to this particular player
Originally by: Future Mutant Your stuff iz mine through actions
Funny, this is at the bottom of all your posts. Looks like a sig to me.
I find it ironic, simply because instead of actually doing something, your just *****ing.
Odd, everyone elses sig shows up for me except mine- but while we are on the subject: *****ing is doing something/ What would you have me do? take up arms and form a revolutionary militia? WTF. CSM has no chance at all of changing on their own accord- only ccp can make them change.
Originally by: Grath Telkin Also, thanks for proving my point about insulting people who disagree with you, I'm sure it would go a long way in helping get a solid support base should you choose to run for office and DO something to create change.
Im not insulting you because i disagree with you- im insulting you because your a moron. You still havent said anything relative to this topic other then i- by myself- somehow have the ability to change csm if only i was a part of it. Deluded much?
Originally by: Grath Telkin And yes, when you hold an election like we do, cast ballads, and tally votes to see who wins, its a democratic election. Pretty bad that a guy who was "hit with a baseball when i was 5yrs old" can grasp that and you can't.
I dont disagree the elections were fair- you somehow invented that topic. And i dont blame you for continually insulting me either. But for those too dumb to think of original comments- please consult others for help instead of rehashing my insults. It makes you look like a fool when you reuse my insults.
Originally by: Grath Telkin You want changes, get elected, and get things brought before CCP to help change what you think is a problem, but PLEASE for the love of god include as MANY of your conspiracy theories as humanly possible, especially about the greedy underhanded cheating that obviously must be common place in the CSM. God knows that catching a guy within days of his transgression hasn't swayed me either brother. DOWN WITH THE MAN.
Most anyone could see the obvious improbability of "changing the system from within". The way i see it- its ccps system- and only they can effect real change. Why would i even sign up to be in the csm vote when i think so little of them?
Originally by: Grath Telkin Basically the Long and Short of it is you complaining that CCP has included the players when they should just be doing this themselves, THEN complaining about basic human nature. If you expect some pious self righteous person to be your CSM rep, then you either work hard at getting him elected or you run yourself, but telling other people how they should act just makes you look miserably sad.
your first part is accurate- the rest is the standard "pirates will do what pirates do" nonsense. CCP already has rules of conduct in place for csm- they need to expand them or disband the entity. The conduct of csm becomes the conduct of ccp. One is judged by the actions of the other.
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
IHaveNoFace
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Posted - 2009.10.25 14:43:00 -
[27]
Draw me a Triceratops with laser beam eyes and all is forgiven Mazz
Incidentally, you serious business types DO realize that if you whine enough CCP wont just disband a CSM and have another voted in right?
They will can the entire experiment.
p.s go outside, get some fresh air and meet some new people face to face.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.26 18:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: IHaveNoFace Draw me a Triceratops with laser beam eyes and all is forgiven Mazz
Incidentally, you serious business types DO realize that if you whine enough CCP wont just disband a CSM and have another voted in right?
They will can the entire experiment.
p.s go outside, get some fresh air and meet some new people face to face.
First off... people have been complaining since I started playing. Secondly... the experiment isn't any good when you got asshats running the show. Thirdly... I plan on running next term... so your bullcrap excuse of "get elected or get bent" is not going to work on me. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
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Posted - 2009.12.15 22:33:00 -
[29]
I have to agree with Future Mutant, the job description should be changed to highlight the benefits of an otherwise task with no other forms of direct compensation.
The small perks (at least if you run in Summer) should be highlighted to get more interest in the CSM.
Total list of perks**: - Free Flight to Reykjavik, Hotel all inclusive* for 3 days for CSM-CCP Conference - Free Flight to Reykjavik, Hotel all inclusive* for 4 days for EVE-Online Fanfest. Including exclusive CSM Fanfest stuff. - 6 Months free game time added to your account
Conditions * Limit to maximum 2 offers per person in their lifetime. Flights are from your home city, anywhere in the world. Includes all meals. Alcohol not included except Fanfest includes beer tickets.
**Minimum Effort required is 104hrs (13 x 6 hour chat sessions, plus 24hr CCP conference + 2 hours lecture at Fanfest.) Minimum Effort for Chairman and Secretary is 156hrs (Member +13 x 4 meeting minutes and organisation).
Writing it all up, I think it makes a lot of sense for people who live in the Southern Hemisphere and want to come to Europe, since the travel routing always requires via a major US or EU city.
Buy ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in the Eve-Online Store |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.12.15 23:34:00 -
[30]
Bad Serenity! Don't you know better than to raise trolls from the dead?
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